FrankGrimes
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Posts posted by FrankGrimes
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Hiya, Piecemaker -- *They just could not catch a break, could they?? But really.. for most of the movie I was torn between wanting her to choose him... and wishing her to choose the OTHER guy.*
What?! You?!
*It is very much a "love triangle"movie in many aspects, and I was not sure WHICH man I wanted her to end up with at first. (mostly becuase it really took me a while to see through Joseph Cotten's "layers". (you are right, it IS hard to get into his head) But when I finally did.. OH me.. what a WONDERFUL guy he was. I absolutely loved him.*
You're way ahead of the game. It took me a few viewings to see what you saw in your first viewing.
*He really DID love his wife and truly wanted only for her happiness (Ugh.. when he hides that necklace behind his back when he thinks she will not want it.. OH me.. it broke my HEART!) And yet.. I was afraid he'd let his bitterness and jealousy get the better of him. It ALMOST did.. but he rose above it. I just think he was an exceptional sort of man, and I really liked his character a lot.*
I'm impressed. But Sam was mighty lucky because he really didn't rise above his jealousy and anger. It almost cost him.
*And yet (this is where the "torn" feelings come in) I also liked Charles too.. poor fella. He really was a VERY likeable guy, and he truly did seem to love Hattie and wanted to help her. I love how he gave her back the confidence she needed to become "herself" again.*
That's right on point. He saw the state Hattie was in and I believe he saw two potential roads. One was making her all well again but another was the opportunity to win her love, a love he seemed to desire since childhood.
*Yes, he was a bit of an underachiever.. ha. so he'd likely NOT have made her happy (as they'd have always been struggling w/ money, etc had she gone w/ him) but I DO think he was a gentleman.. and he DID care a great deal about making sure she did not suffer.*
Oh, crap! I'm Chuck!
I'm not sure Hattie was worried about the money since she gave up her well-to-do life just to be with Sam. As Charles says, "No man alive is worth that sacrifice." Her ultimate response is, "No, Charles, no, no. Ohhh, you don't know." She's right. What Charles is unknowingly doing is helping Hattie understand how deep her love for Sam really is. Charles really doesn't understand the depths of love. He's still caught up in a childhood crush. What Sam and Hattie have gone through is something he cannot comprehend. Charles isn't a serious man. He's all about good times. Sam and Hattie have been to hell and back.
*I LOVE how he took care of her at the dinner party (even SAM did not do that.. he'd more or less given up) Charles gave her back her dignity.. and helped her to find herself again in a way that Sam seemed unable to do. And THAT is what had me so torn for a good long while in this movie.*
Oh! Very good! You're right, Charles is the spark for Hattie. He brings her back to life. And you are also right, Sam probably couldn't have done that. Because of what you say:
*But really, I think Sam's failure was just in not knowing HOW to help her. (rather than in not wanting to help her) so once I figured THAT out.. I did not judge him so harshly.*
You're all over it! Sometimes an outsider can help bring back the romance in a marriage, in the right ways. But poor Charles gets short-changed. Oh, my. I'm Charles.
*And OH that Hattie. What a transformation she goes through during this story. At first I wondered if she TOO were not at least a little bit torn as to which man she wanted to end up with. But really I think she never would have left her husband. Because despite all the feelings she may have had for Charles (and despite even MY feelings for him TOO, ha) I like that in the end, the ONLY man for Hattie.. was Sam.*
This sucks. How can I agree with you this much about a movie?
*But, boy, it WAS hard to see how he was going to end up for a while He did seem to love her and I WANTED him to be a decent guy, but when he started letting himself get led around by Milly's gossiping tongue (and outright lies) and allowed his jealousy to get the better of him, I ALMOST thought he was a lost cause.*
Sam felt sorry for himself... a lot. He still sees himself as a stable boy and he thinks Hattie and the rest from Ireland do the same. He's suffering from a serious case of inferiority complex. But, you know, his feelings were somewhat warranted. The Adares did view him poorly. But Hattie didn't. He wasn't giving his wife enough credit, and that was a great failing of his. What happens to many of us is that we create our greatest fears. Sam's greatest fear is that Hattie sees him as a lowly stable boy that is not worthy of her love.
*But he was a better man than that. And I am GLAD for it. Because you are right that this film is about folks rescuing each other.. and it is also about sacrifice too. And Sam and Hattie had been through too much together (and had sacrified too much for each other) for there to be ANYONE else for her but Sam. (and vice versa)*
You nailed it.
*It started way back before the movie even begins (in their past). Sam rescues Hattie, and sacrifices himself (and his freedom) to do it. And then Hattie gives up EVERYTHING she was (as a human being) to be with Sam. (meaning she lost her entire sense of WHO she was as a person by the life she was forced to live just to be near him while he was in prison.)*
*And in giving themselves up for the sake of each other... they both took a path that more or less RE-created who they were as people. So if you think about it, the two of them more or less completely lost their own identities in their attempts to lay aside their own wants and needs out of love for one another. (and yet their sacrifices nearly ENDED their relationship, instead of bolstering it. Very unexpected.)*
Brilliant! Each was thinking so poorly of themselves and what they had done to the other that it was costing them their love. Hattie was separated from her family and Sam knew he couldn't return to Ireland because he would be viewed as a "nobody," as Millie says. So Hattie killed a piece of herself to be with Sam and Sam knows this. And Hattie knows Sam lost years from his life taking the rap for killing her brother.
*Because you are right.. she DID try to "rescue" Sam. At least she THOUGHT that was what she was doing. I think she even saw it as her "duty" She was the only one who REALLY cared about him (in HER mind) and SHE was just going to have to be the one to take matters into her own hand and save him from the awful fate of being married to Hattie. Because in her mind Sam was suffering because HATTIE was the problem (even though in reality it was Milly who was instrumental in CREATING much of the problem) But she thought (in her twisted logic) that she was HELPING Sam to see how much he needed HER by keeping Hattie down. As long as Milly could manipulate Hattie, she had Sam on a string as well.. and he would NEED her if Hattie needed her too. So she made SURE Hattie needed her. It was a very self-serving (and evil) way to implicate herself into Sam's life*
Excellent! That's right on target. I believe Sam felt more relaxed with Milly because of her background. He was her boss, yes, but he also felt he could confide in her, too. So Sam helped to create Milly's feelings, to a degree. But there's no getting around her being manipulative for her own means.
I liked when she said: "Once her Ladyship's gone, you'll be able to get some peace. You've never known peace, have you, Mr. Flusky?" Very manipulative.
But I really felt for her when she said: "Stay here with me. I'll look after you. I'll work to the death for you. You know I will. Don't do it, Mr. Sam."
I like that she called him "Mr. Sam" instead of Mr. Flusky. He eventually says to her: "You'll do as you're told." Boy, is that a tough one to swallow.
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TWO FLAGS WEST SPOILED
Howdy, Fordy Guns -- *I was totally into the story, and had never seen one like it. Talk about conflicting loyalties! A soldier is a soldier is a soldier, right? Wrong. The wounds between the two "sides" never cease to amaze me. These are all people from the same country, you tell yourself, how can they go against eachother with so much hate, brother against brother as it were.*
Wow! I would have never guessed you'd like such a story.
*This was the first time I really found Jeff Chandler to be so on the mark with a character, to the point that he disappears and all you see is the character. I have always like him alot, though I confess it's generally been because he's so good looking and I love his voice.
*I thought he was wonderful. He reminded me of Warner Baxter in *The Road to Glory*. Both were very committed to the cause but they were struggling with their inability to win over their love.
*This time he did impress me as the Col. Thursday-like (Fort Apache) commander. I thought he did well. He made me angry at him (when he murdered the boy...he shot him in the BACK didn't he? It looked like it) and yet he wasn't inhuman.*
He was definitely in the "Colonel Thursday" mold. And I believe Robert Wise was attempting to make a Ford cavalry film.
What Kenniston (Jeff Chandler) does to the young indian was very shocking. Such brass!
*In fact, I wondered how long he had loved Linda...was it only since she came to the fort? Had he known and met her before she married his brother?*
I was under the impression he loved her while his brother was alive. There was something uneasy about his love for her.
*Wilde was good as usual in the straight arrow role, though I was totally surprised by what happened to him...I thought the movie was going to end much differently in that regard.*
I completely agree. Yet another shocking turn of events, to say the least. I keep liking Cornel in the films I see him in. He's not exciting or complicated, but he's rock solid.
*Cotten was terrific as always, perfectly cast as the Confederate officer torn between duty and loyalty.*
I thought it was interesting to see him in a western. Evidently he couldn't ride a horse too well since he received the insert during the charge.
I felt Colonel Tucker (Cotten) was the most challenged character in the picture. He had quite a few conflicted feelings in play.
*As I said in Western Rambles, I believe in the right roles Linda was one heck of an actress.*
I'm someone who believes Linda is a very good actress. It just took her a little time to develop her talent. She's almost always compelling, even in supporting roles, like this one.
*She had warmth and spirit and could convey volumes of Eve-like knowledge with her eyes, and at the same time, the pain with which such knowledge was bought. I very much enjoyed her day under the stars.*
That was a terrific description! She really is warm and spirited and her eyes do convey feeling. She's a very inviting girl. She draws me in.
Once again, Robert Wise brings a strong social current to a film. In this case, it's a double-dip, as the plight of both southerners and indians are shown in a good light.
I really liked Arthur Hunnicutt in the film. He was superb. I really enjoy his "tone."
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*Let's ask Tennyson:*
* I hold it true, whate'er befall;*
* I feel it when I sorrow most;*
* 'Tis better to have loved and lost*
* Than never to have loved at all.*
Then I'm in last! That's a position I'm used to.
*You're a lazy ham already so this is perfect, you won't have to do any real work ever again.*
That made me laugh! Bar exams are so easy to pass and very cheap.
*Scarlett is sweetly endearing when she's crying.*
When does she do that?! She cries for herself!
*To quote another poet,*
* How do I love the beach,
I think I know that poet. She slaps a lot!
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*He was you!
* I don't have a wife and I'm not on the rebound!
Yes, there's a lot of "Jerry" with me. I'm one who can't pick up the phone.
*She has that same flirty, childlike vanity as well as a practical streak.*
That's true. I always see Scarlett as being so very selfish and self-absorbed. But I know Suzie can be this way, too.
*I did! It was wild because it's nothing really like the way the show develops. It was literally a James Bond/007 movie, including an actor who played a Bond villain, I beleieve. The same guy who played the lead Communist in The Manchurian Candidate. I like him, he's always in a good mood even when he's being evil.*
That sounds good to me. Are you going to start to watch the show?
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*He and his wife were married twelve years. Like it or not, that's a real marriage and he was right when he said you can't just toss that away. If they were both just selfish people from the start and never loved each other, then they probably would have lost all feeling for each other and divorced long ago. He acts more like a shell-shock victim, he's still reeling from the break and is practically an advertisement for Rebounding.*
I agree with you. What a horrible feeling! Do I get slammed again?
I loved the beginning of the film. I loved how pathetic Jerry was. He was so frightened and lonely.
*A Scarlett O'Hara with a little more heart.
* You think so? What are their similarities?
*I recently rented the pilot to "Hawaii Five-O" because I saw it featured Nancy.*
That's awesome! She's really cute. Did you like the pilot?
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*Well, he doesn't lay down like a puppy.*
I'm sure he doesn't!
*She's a different kind of strong woman in that she plays stronger when she's opposite a strong guy like Tracy, unlike some other actresses who always seemed to be cast opposite passive men.*
That's a very interesting point. I expect wrongheaded, Wrongheaded.
*Yes, he was suffocating, he said his wife was a nurse who nursed him to death.*
Right. Yet he can't let her go. At first, I thought Gittel was wrong to distrust Jerry, but it turns out she was right. Or was it that she drove him back to his wife? It's a fascinating push-pull love.
*He's a real baked potato.*
Mitch? He seems to have something fancy to him, more so than Spence. There's more of an allure to Mitch.
*At least it's not ballet!*
This is true! But I do like ballerinas.
*Dear Suzie. Why is it I suddenly hear Al Jolson singing "If you knew Suzie, like I knew Suzie...."*
She's such a sweetheart.
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UNDER CAPRICORN spoilers!
*Hello, I'm back from Minyago Yugilla!*
And I bet you slapped everyone you saw!
*It is wonderful to see a director going into unfamiliar (to the audience, that is) territory, in this case drama instead of suspense/thrillers.*
It was a very bold journey for Hitch, no doubt about it.
*It's a remarkable love story really, and Sam and Hattie make Romeo and Juliette seem the least of star crossed lovers.*
It really is a strange little love story. Sacrifice... gone awry.
*They really had problems communicating and getting a fair chance together. All sorts of obstacles seemed to keep them apart emotionally and literally. A lot of them come down to Hattie's lack of strength. I don't mean worth, she's got great stuff in her and I love the way she forces herself to do what she must and can for Sam in spite of herself. She gives in a lot, and "fate" seems to put Charles (Michael Wilding) in her way to give her the strength and confidence in herself she needs to help Sam.*
What I took out of this recent viewing of the film was the shame, guilt, and insecurities of Sam (Joseph Cotten) and Hattie (Ingrid Bergman). Sam cannot get past the point of his being a "stable boy." He feels he is unworthy of Hattie. The presence of Charles (Michael Wilding) only heightens this great insecurity of his. Hattie is carrying the guilt of Sam's sacrifice. She's been torturing herself over it and sorely wants to please him, to make up for all the time they lost. It's just he won't allow her to do so because of his feeling unworthy. He's put up a wall.
*I liked the commentary on class differences, and how they are both real and imaginary obstacles between people. I like that the upper classes weren't all wastrels, and the lower were not all degraded nor free of snobbery. It's a rich tapestry of human motivations and different kinds of sacrifices---some sacrifices are unselfish, some are selfish.*
Wonderfully said! You're exactly right. Sam does face real class discrimination but then he also imagines it, too.
*I liked too, the symbolism of the keys. this movie reminded me a little of a film with Jean Simmons and her then husband, Stewart Granger. Jean longed, like Milly, to be the mistress of the house and I remember the fights with the other servants and the phony obsequiousness and the lust for the keys, the symbol of power in the household. Lest feminists deny women ever had real power, they should have listened better to their grandmother and great grandmothers talk of sheming and machinations more devious than those in any court, and for power that controlled from within not mere titular power that is more fleeting and less impactful.*
All of that reminded me of *Rebecca*. If a woman cannot control her own house, the doors are wide open for mischief.
*I don't know how much Milly was after love as much as status, she seemed to long for both or else she wouldn't have harped as much on the difference between the "gentry" and "people like us, Mr. Sam". When she raved at Sam for wanting to go back to Ireland and lose all he had worked to attain ("You'll be nothing there!") then I thought she showed her hand. She was just as hungry for power and status as anyone. And small blame to her, but she was not a loving woman really, her love was twisted and bitter.*
Milly (Margaret Leighton) was very similar to Sam, hence Sam's affinity for her. On one hand, I felt sorry for her. But to see her hurt Hattie for her own selfish desires caused me to lose sympathy for her.
*If I could wish for one thing I wish I could have gotten more into Sam's character and mind, for I feel the movie leans more toward telling the story deliberately from every point of view but his. I guess this was to keep us in the dark as to his real nature, just as in Rebecca we don't see things from De Winter's point of view until his confession scene (or in* *Jane Eyre, where it is all from the point of view of Jane, not Rochester).*
I felt the story was mostly about Sam more than anyone else. Charles (Michael Wilding) was actually saving Sam more so than Hattie, but he does so for Hattie. More sacrifice.
*The three faces of Hattie (Ingrid Bergman):*
I like all of her faces!
*I admit one thing puzzles me. Why she went off the deep end. Was it a culmination of all the events, they were just too much for her to deal with alone? Or was it as she told Adare, that what she "saw" in the little hut down at the harbour drove her over the edge? That part is very vague. She says she saw terrible things, indicating she saw the degradations of extreme poverty and ignorance and the depravity of those living on the docks. Was it seeing all that for the first time in her life, and alone, what drove her into a kind of depression?*
It is quite vague as to what sent her spiraling into depression. My guess is her guilt. That horrible little hut down by the docks with the sweating walls was her own prison cell.
*Was she like this already when Sam got his release and ever since? Or did she go downhill later? It's very puzzling.*
She mentions how Sam tried to make up for it when he was released but she says it was "no good."
*That's why I say some of the issues between the classes are imaginary, some are real. The reality is Hattie probably was not a strong person because for generations her family had every blow softened for them, and she never had to grapple with harsh realities. It was said by her husband that when he met her she had great courage and talks about how she rode a horse. Well, riding and jumping fences isn't the same as running off with the stable boy, killing your brother and living in a penal colony. I guess it was all too much for her. She had the heart and courage to do what had to be done, but not the strength to endure the consequences without help, the kind of support and help she'd had all her life.*
Hey, I like that! I agree.
*How nice a twist that Hattie's first independent act was to burn the whip or cat o' nine tails, it looked like. She said there'd be no more whippings in the house. I thought she was a lot wiser and cool headed in handling those servants than I'd have been. I confess I'd probably have sent them all packing, except Winter, the manservant (kind of an echo of "De Winter"?).*
That's because all you know how to do is slap and kick, you wrongheaded mule!
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I think you'd like what's behind Dix's (Sterling Hayden) motivations in *The Asphalt Jungle*.
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*But if you want vulnerable Kate, Summertime is the movie to see.*
Yes, I prefer "vulnerable Kate." *Summertime* is a DVD that will be on my Christmas list.
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*So, how would you say this film (and any of the others on that list) still rate for you today??? Any big shake ups in your order from back then until now??*
My current ranking is in parentheses:
1. Psycho (1960) (1)
2. Rear Window (1954) (3)
3. North By Northwest (1959) (7)
4. Strangers on a Train (1951) (4)
5. The 39 Steps (1935) (6)
6. Vertigo (1958) (2)
7. Shadow of a Doubt (1943) (9)
8. Dial M for Murder (1954) (13)
9. Rope! (1948) (11)
10. Frenzy (1972) (10)
11. Notorious (1946) (5)
12. Foreign Correspondent (1940) (14)
13. Spellbound (1945) (8)
14. The Lady Vanishes (1938) (18)
15. The Birds (1963) (15)
16. The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956) (20)
17. Saboteur (1942) (19)
18. To Catch a Thief (1955) (12)
19. Blackmail (1929) (16)
20. Suspicion (1941) (21)
21. Young and Innocent (1937) (24)
22. Topaz (1969) (32)
23. Sabotage (1936) (25)
24. I Confess (1951) (26)
25. The Man Who Knew Too Much (1934) (27)
26. Stage Fright (1950) (29)
27. Rebecca (1940) (33)
28. Lifeboat (1944) (37)
29. Secret Agent (1936) (30)
30. Mr. and Mrs. Smith (1941) (17)
31. Number Seventeen (1932) (38)
32. Murder! (1930) (39)
33. The Lodger (1927) (31)
34. Marnie (1964) (28)
35. The Wrong Man (1956) (40)
36. The Paradine Case (1947) (34)
37. Rich and Strange (1931) (35)
38. The Trouble with Harry (1955) (41)
39. The Manxman (1929) (22)
40. The Farmer's Wife (1928) (42)
41. Jamaica Inn (1939) (48)
42. The Ring (1927) (45)
43. Easy Virtue (1928) (47)
44. Under Capricorn (1949) (43)
45. The Skin Game (1931) (49)
46. Juno and the Paycock (1930) (51)
I've watched since:
Family Plot (1976) (23)
Torn Curtain (1966) (36)
Waltzes from Vienna (1934) (44)
Champagne (1928) (46)
Downhill (1927) (50)
Biggest Risers
39. The Manxman (1929) (22)
30. Mr. and Mrs. Smith (1941) (17)
11. Notorious (1946) (5)
18. To Catch a Thief (1955) (12)
34. Marnie (1964) (28)
Biggest Fallers
22. Topaz (1969) (32)
28. Lifeboat (1944) (37)
31. Number Seventeen (1932) (38)
32. Murder! (1930) (39)
41. Jamaica Inn (1939) (48)
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*I watched I Walk Alone here first:*
Thanks for the link. My problem is that I'm trying to collect certain films noir and that's one on the list.
*Burt seems very vulnerable here too. I think that is what I am finding I like best in his earlier films.*
I think Burt is at his best in film noir, and I believe his vulnerability is the reason why. He's good at "falling hard."
*I agree. I just loved Dana here - he's another vulnerable man, who tries not to be. Masking his fears with toughness because that's all he knows.*
Dana wears hurt and torture exceptionally well. There's a lot going on underneath with him. I think most guys can relate to Eric Stanton. We can often find ourselves mesmerized by the beauty of one particular woman, even though we know she may not be best for us. But that won't stop us. I guess the equivalent for women is the "bad boy."
*I really liked Alice Faye a lot, though I think some don't like her in this film.*
She's the "Quality Street" old maid. But for once in her life, she decides to toss aside her reservations and goes all in with Eric. He's no good and she kind of knows this. But what does she have without him? Some of us do get caught waiting our lives away. I'm very much a "June."
*Linda is just the right blend of heartless floozy and sensible shopgirl (or waitress).*
I fell hard for Stella (and Linda). I loved her delivery in the film. It's perfect. She's "tired." She's very much the opposite of June yet they are exactly the same. Each is looking for something much different than what they currently have. So the floozy is the same as the virgin.
*And the supporting cast is great, and the look and feel of the movie is even better.*
You've got it. I usually like the feel of Preminger films.
*I think I am missing a gene. I feel like I am not getting something I should out of it. Like when I used to watch the Searchers and couldn't find the key into it.*
I'm not sure such a film suits your sensibilities.
*I think Mitchum is superb, and Greer, she is AMAZING..... the movie is directed by one of my favorites, and it looks soooo beautiful. But something doesn't connect. I don't love it, but I can appreciate it. I love Dickie Moore and the idea of him being the only one to carry on Jeff's memory. I think you have to fall completely in love with Mitchum to really love the movie. Maybe if I had discovered the film on my own, late one night, and took it to heart ....? I don't know. I can see it's good. But there is no particular connection for me. No empathy.*
The film is all about doom yet with a sacrificial heart. Jeff (Robert Mitchum) wants to lead the right life, a life that Ann (Virginia Huston) represents. But, deep down, he knows it can't be done. He knows Ann would be better off with another and he also knows he still has Kathie (Jane Greer) inside his system. What are we to do when we are caught in limbo with our love and life? Can we have a future if we are attached to a past?
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*Here's my list in order:*
*Kiss the Blood Off My Hands*
*Brainstorm*
*Fallen Angel*
*Deadline at Dawn*
*Detour*
*The Strange Love of Martha Ivers*
*Out of the Past*
*The Breaking Point*
*I'll Walk Alone*
Now that brings a smile to my face.
Nicely done!I don't have *Brainstorm* and my power went out during my recording of *I Walk Alone*. And that was one of three titles I wished to record the most this month.
*I have the feeling Criss Cross is going to be high up, maybe around 4 or 5.*
It's a classic film noir in that the man wrecks himself over his love for a woman. Yvonne is beautiful.
*I really loved Fallen Angel. It's weird watching Dana in FA and then Brainstorm.*
That's a girl! I'm a big fan of *Fallen Angel*. I've read some of the recent criticisms of the film on the board and they always make smile. It's another classic film noir in the sense it shows a great restlessness. What do we what out of life? I thought the mixing of film noir (Eric Stanton) with a woman's pic (June Mills) was interesting.
My order of the ones I've seen on your list:
Out of the Past
Fallen Angel
Criss Cross
Detour
The Strange Love of Martha Ivers
Desert Fury
So you're not a big fan of *Out of the Past* ?
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Good evening, Burnt Toastmaker -- *Hello there, Aquaman.. ha..*
I like it! I'm an Aquaman fan.
*I took a look for QS on youtube and found a clip of it. (not the whole movie.. but I will keep looking) but I can't believe you even WATCHED this film (ha) just looking at the costumes, let alone hearing about the story.*
Yeah, I need to watch *Kiss the Blood Off My Hands* after *Quality Street* and *Top Hat*. I'm feeling weak.
*you are a man of mystery. Just when I think I am figuring you out.. ha.. you pull a complete 180 on me. (no wonder I am so lousy at pegging you.. ha)*
You think so? It's not like I loved *Quality Street*. I do think it's a charming film with many good qualities, though.
*Well at the very least I'd say you are a "black hat"
(KIDDING!!)* I'm definitely that!
*But truthfully despite the ending (which I will say again. I liked.. for the most part) I can see why you liked this film. It has some really good moments and a lot of "grey" for **** to sort through. He WANTED to be one guy.. but found out (whether he liked it or not) that he was really a different guy.. and not so "black" as all that. Anyway.. I like how when EVERYTHING is literally crumbling all around him, it all comes down to a single thought for him.."I love and need to find Mary" It sort of puts things into perspective when you realize there IS nothing else to worry about except the one you love when the world is ripped right out from under you like that.*
You've got it. What the heck matters the most to us in this world? Money? Possessions? Power? Standing? For me, it's none of that. I'm very basic and boring.
*And again.. the special effects were first rate. (especially when you think about when this movie was made) I saw this film for the first time MANY MANY years ago and I still recall how impressed I was by the way the earthquake scenes are done. And every time I watch it, I am still just more and more impressed. Even today with all the computer generated stuff, I don't think I have seen a disaster film that was any better made. (not to say that some of the new ones aren't impressive.. just saying this one ranks way up there for me as well)*
The special effects were very good. I was surprised by how quick it all happened. I was expecting a more prolonged sequence. But what is shown really fits an earthquake.
*HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are just so funny.. ha. Yeah.. it was me and Quantill.. we pretty much wrecked the place. HA. :-)*
I figured as much. You're one to keep an eye on.
*Nah.. I'm not the kind to kick a guy when he is down, so my only concern would be for your safety of course. I'd make sure to pull you out of the water and see that you were safe and sound and on dry land.... and THEN I'd put it around your neck.
:p *That's smart! Let a guy catch his breath and then hang him!
*WOO hoo. I was hoping you'd chime in sooner or later (as I recall Miss G saying this film was one you enjoyed)*
She's wrong! It's not an easy watch for me. Konway is the one who really liked it. He helped me to appreciate it more.
*(was starting to think you'd turned "shiftless" on us.. ha. But I guess you HAVE been busy what with the worst flood in Harrisburg history floating by.. so I will not give you too much grief about dragging your feet.. ha.*
I was being shiftless.
*Hmmmmm.... have you seen: (what can I say.. ha. .ever since chatting on UC in Miss G's thread.. I am in a Charles Dickens kinda mood and this story is one of my most faves for him) But if you have already seen it.. or don't WANT to see it.. let me know and I will try to think of another.*
Oh, noooooooooooooooooooooo! Y'all are trying to kill me! Just hang me now!
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Good late evening, Arly -- *To me, the story is the singing and the dancing, not the stuff in between. More happens in those dances than anywhere else.*
That's a very good point. I do know the entire point of Fred & Ginger films is the dancing. I think I'm in trouble.
*I'll say! Here's what I've seen, if you don't mind my listing them.*
*I'll Walk Alone*
*The Breaking Point*
*Detour*
*Fallen Angel*
*Deadline at Dawn*
*The Strange Love of Martha Ivers*
*Out of the Past*
*Brainstorm*
*Kiss the Blood Off My Hands*
*I liked a lot of these far more than I was expecting.*
*I started Desert Fury and Criss Cross, but haven't finished them yet.*
Wow! You've watched far more film noir than I have watched in months! You're also on a Burt kick.
I've seen six of those films:
Detour
Fallen Angel
The Strange Love of Martha Ivers
Out of the Past
Desert Fury
Criss Cross
I'm a huge fan of *Fallen Angel*, *Out of the Past*, and *Criss Cross*.
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*Whoa! Maybe they will grow on you. Now that you own them, you might as well get your money's worth!*
It depends on the stories. I can't see me liking the singing and dancing. But I may appreciate that with more viewings.
*Helen is a stitch! I love her too. Another smart mouth dame who can deliver a sharp line.*
I like how she knows her husband.
*Oh I like it now. The movie does lag a bit in that last third, though. I agree. I just watch Cary's reactions to everything. He's so good at never getting a word in, all through the movie he is just trying to get someone to listen to him. And in the jail scene, he is even more ignored, so much so that he actually gets out of the cell without anyone even noticing him. Imagine not noticing Cary Grant! Walter Catlett makes me laugh too. He's my favorite, more so in the scene where he tries to give Kate a ticket.*
I prefer Cary on the attack and in the foreground versus being pushed to the side. Both *Bringing Up Baby* and *Arsenic and Old Lace* have Cary being "out of character," to me.
*Right now, you are in my territory, comedies and the Astaire Rogers musicals. But I've been travelling through your territory lately.*
You have? My territory is always troubling.
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*it's very much a studio creation, it doesn't have the creativity of the other numbers that Astaire and Hermes Pan choreographed. It was supposed to be "the next big thing" after their previous picture's "The Continental" became a best selling song. I still like it, but not as much as the other numbers.*
Oh, I see. This was my first Fred & Ginger, so all of it is new to me. Maybe I'll be more inclined to handle the singing and dancing in the next flick.
*The numbers in the Astaire/Rogers movies are so far above anything anyone else was doing at the time, one can forgive the movie plots for being a little lame. Frankly, I don't think anyone ever was able to match the quality of those numbers. I love the way Fred and Ginger relate. If you watch some of their earlier films, when they were second fiddles, it's fascinating how fresh they are compared to the couple playing the leading parts.*
I can definitely believe that. I was definitely impressed with the dancing. It's just that's not going to get me to like a film. I need to care about the story and characters or like the visuals, mood, and atmosphere. I'm not a "singing and dancing" guy.
*Hey, I don't play cards!
*If you did, you would be a card sharp!
*I think I am on an upswing with BUB. Sometimes I can't take it. Other times I love it.*
It's really Kate's film, to me. I really love how aggressive she is with her love. My kind of girl.
I like the film, despite a weak final act.
*I just don't understand it. They are very class conscious here which is something I really don't get. It's not a part of my makeup to worry first about what kind of car someone drives or where they live, before finding out whether you have similar tastes in things. It's stupid.*
I wouldn't want to live there. Anybody who judges people on standing and possessions ain't for me.
*What did you like best about San Fran? Gable?*
I liked how the story grew and grew until the quake hit. I enjoyed how **** (Clark Gable) and Mary (Jeanette MacDonald) fed off of each other. One of my favorite moments was when Mary performs in the contest for ****'s club and he ends up turning down her winning gesture. I thought that was great. I liked the lesson of love.
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*I thought you might like the "Isn't this a Lovely Day" number where they dance in the rain. They look like they are having so much fun together, it's my favorite of their numbers of all time. And it's hard to choose.*
That's my second favorite song and dance in the film. I didn't like "The Piccolino."
*I like that too, he's a good hearted man. I really like Franchot Tone in this movie a lot. I tend to like him as an actor as long as the plot makes sense. Some of his early 30's films are a little silly. he gets stuck in the callow leading man role a little too much. he really blew my mind in Phantom Lady.*
I also liked Franchot in both *Quality Street* and *Phantom Lady*. What a double bill that would make!
*She was Thomas Mitchell's wife. The hateful one who gets upset at the card party.*
She played you?!
*Oh, yes! Like in Bringing Up Baby. That goofy side of her.*
Kate is why I even like *Bringing Up Baby*. She's so playful and full of love.
*I think Hepburn is one of the best cry-ers on film. When she cries her whole face stretches and then crumples up. And she gets that quivering lip. That quiver you wish you could control but can't when you are trying to hide that you are crying.*
That's a very good observation. She's definitely a master of the "quivering lip." I like how big her eyes look when she cries.
*Men say they like a girl who isn't wearing any makeup, but don't like a girl who actually isn't wearing any.....unless she is blessed with perfect features and coloring already. I think they like the appearance of naturalness, but not so much the real thing.*
I agree with that. But I still believe women fuss and worry about their looks far more than is needed. They concern themselves with "coloring" more than a guy would even care about.
*Yes, it's pretty here. But the people are very clannish. they aren't very willing to get to know you if you are an outsider.*
That is rather boring. I like getting to know people.
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Congratulations on 6000 posts, Movieman!
I always enjoy your contributions on this board. You are a class act and a kind soul. I also love your sense of humor.
Now if I could ask a favor of you. Could you tell Miss G to be nice to me?
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*Um, a snippy girl and a goofy guy fall for each other while bantering back and forth.....*
That's fine with me! The story isn't the greatest.
*did you... like the dancing? Don't tell me....
*It's very jarring for me. When Jerry (Fred Astaire) starts tapping in front of Horace (Edward Everett Horton), I knew I was in trouble. But I did like when Jerry and Dale (Ginger Rogers) danced to "Cheek to Cheek." I didn't like the last act of the film.
*It's very early on, she gives her wedding dress to Phoebe when they think Franchot is going to propose.*
I'm gonna watch that again. The beginning of the film was tough for me to get into because I didn't know the characters yet. Now that I know who Susan is and what she's all about, I'll probably like the scene just as you do.
*She's adorable, very wide eyed and girlish, self effacing. I don't think I've ever seen Fay like this before. Her obvious emotions betray every nervous moment of their scheme, but she is never over the top in any way. She's delicate, very shy, and still really fun to watch. I keep looking to her for her reactions.*
That was wonderfully expressed. It's her sweetness and her shyness that draws me to her. I like that Valentine (Franchot Tone) looked after her, too.
*In other movies she always seems very womanly. I really love that she plays perfect accompaniment to so many of Hollywood's headstrong women. She even played a horrible evil-minded sister in law who goes mad in The Shining Hour with Joan Crawford.*
The only other film I've seen her in is *Make Way for Tomorrow*, and I can't remember who she played.
*I forgot that part. It is kind of sweet, the way she isn't asking too much, but probably still won't get it.*
That's right. She'll always be looking out the window, hoping. And she says she hasn't given up hope. I like that.
*I agree, I think she does very well with the material. I think Hepburn makes a big change in the mid-thirties. She stops trying so hard to act, and starts letting herself react to others. This one gives her a chance to do both.*
I like when Kate is playing a "little girl." There's a freshness to her. That's the "breezy" I speak of.
*I think she's quite touching as Phoebe, who only sits and waits, and callow but charming as Livvy, her idea of what men want. I also like her shock and attempt to hide her feelings when misunderstanding Franchot's intentions at the beginning.*
Nicely said. You're right, Kate provides some nice subtle emotions throughout the film.
*VERY light. The tone is just right to make the silly contrived romance plausible. There is no reason this film should work, except for the great cast who ALL hit the right notes, and George Stevens extremely gentle treatment of the story.*
I agree. I believe the cast brings a lot to this film.
*Yes, but if a woman doesn't fit a certain standard or take care of herself, you don't take a second look. I can't tell you how many women I have heard say, "Why doesn't he like me just for me? not see the person I am, instead of what I look like?" Of course, I have just as many male friends who say the same thing.*
I don't think either sex likes a slob, but I believe most guys like how their woman looks, naturally. I usually like a girl who isn't overly done. Less is quite often more.
*Jean really shines in this one for me, and she doesn't have that icy remove. She seems very open and human to me. I really identify with her character. Stuck in New England.
*Stuck?! New England is a nice place to be stuck in.
I liked how Charlotte (Jean Simmons) and Jake (Efrem Zimbalist, Jr.) would spend time together at the docks, early in the morning.
*I'll add my sentiments to everyone else's.... I hope the floods do subside there soon! Is your dad alright? I hope the basement or things in it didn't have too much damage. Flood is a terrible thing to deal with afterwards, as is fire. Mold and the smell of mildew or smoke is hard to deal with as well.*
Our area is starting to improve. Lots of clean-up around the Swatara Creek (Hershey, Hummelstown) and downtown Harrisburg, along the Susquehanna River.
My dad is doing just fine. We were able to save his basement from any major damage. We dumped over a 1000 gallons of water via the ShopVac. We'd get it as it came into the basement. The 10-gallon ShopVac would fill up in a minute to a minute and a half. Then we'd dump it in the deep sink and go right back for the next wave of water. We were able to keep up and then eventually get ahead of it.
*What makes you a ****?*
My belief system. I'm black-hearted!
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Hey there, Little Red Buick -- *I am shocked you are being so complementary about Quality Street! Or that you watched it in the first place.*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G75cORqX_oQ
*Even more of a shock is that you placed it above Top Hat, which I thought you would really like.*
Hmmmmmmmmm...
*Fay Bainter is just terrific in this movie - she's my favorite too. It's the movie that made me really notice her - that scene with the wedding dress makes me choke up, it's just a tiny scene but she invests it with such reality, it's amazing. I wish she had had leading parts in whcih she carried a film. She has that same power as Beulah Bondi, to calmly carry any scene, play any side of the coin.*
I don't even remember the wedding dress scene! That's bad on me. When does it occur? Early on?
*And she's funny, scurrying around, helping Kate with her little plot.*
She really is. I think Susan (Fay) is very cute. I liked her downing the cordials.
*And it's always fun to see Cora and Estelle Winwood in a movie. Estelle is such a nutty old lady. Really odd.*
Estelle has such distinctive eyes. I liked Patty's (Cora) scene at the window. Her longing for a guy; a soldier with a wooden leg that needed taking care of.
*I am so glad you see the charm of Quality Street. It's one of the movies that put Kate on the "box office poison" list, and I'm afraid most people think of her as just grating or irritating in this film.*
Really? I never knew that. This is the kind of Kate I like. She's very breezy. I thought she was good.
*I really like her two characters here, and how Franchot sees the real Phoebe. But mostly, I just like how the movie builds up to her having to run back and forth, changing from one to the other. And how Franchot saves the day with the removal of Livvy.*
The humor is very light, which is befitting the women. It's very much a "comedy of manners."
*The conventions of our time are really lambasted in the movie and our silly thoughts about youth and age - I wish more people thought this way nowadays, with our foolish notions of what's attractive, women actually take the hatchet to themselves in search of eternal "beauty" now. I can't think of anything uglier than a woman of sixty trying to look twenty.
*I completely agree with that. But you women just can't get that through your thick skull! And then you blame it on us men! My grandma likes to say, "the trouble we women go through to look nice for you men." Wrong! The trouble you women go through to look nice for yourself!
*I really enjoy Home Before Dark. It's my favorite jean Simmons film.*
I thought it was very good. I usually like Jean.
*And San Francisco? Guess it wasn't too religious for you.
* I don't like the ending. That was force-fed. But the rest of the film was good.How do, Quiet Gal -- *Oh me, dear sir.. I hope you are doing ok and that the flooding has not reached your little corner of the world too harshly. Hang in there and keep paddling.*
I'm all right. I had to help my dad save his basement on Wednesday, though.
*(and ps.. it is sort of a world gone whacky to think that poor "Sweet T" is fanning the flames while you are treading water.. not that I think SHE should tread water.. but rather that YOU should be the one who is fanning.. ha.. OH never mind.. I am getting myself in trouble.. ha)
*Yes, you'd think I would be the one closest to the flames!
*HEH?????????????????? And here I thought YOU thought Alice Adams was silly!!!! :pha. (ok... I am giving you grief because despite your "it was silly comments.. you did say some nice stuff about it too) I am going to have to check out this film soon (if you compare it to my beloved Alice movie)*
I'd say *Alice Adams* is more "silly" on my "silly scale." But both films really do run along similar lines. Each is about a girl believing she must be something she is not to be loved and accepted by a man.
*I was surpised to see San Fransisco rank so high on your list.. It is one of my more fave Clark Gable films.. I love the special effects of this film (almost more than anything else about it) but I like the story (and the ending too) very much as well. I am glad you found something likeable about it. (ha.. I figured with all the singing.. and the whole "Battle Hymn of the Republic" ending..ha., you'd have been wishing for a big brick wall to fall on Jeanette MacDonald's head.ha)*
I enjoyed the film despite the ending. I'm definitely a "****."*I'll be interested to hear what you have to say about Dark Command sometime too.. that is a Duke film I have not seen, but would like to. (even if only because the setting for the story practically took place in my back yard.. ha. I used to work in Lawrence Kansas in fact.. waaaayy back when the QT and I first got married.. ancient history kinda stuff.. ha)*
And Lawrence has never been the same.
I don't know if Snippy wants to discuss the film in "Western Rambles" or not. I'm going to reply her post on *Two Flags West* in Arturo's thread.*And PS: Will say again... do take good care w/ all the whacky weather stuff. I bet it is a mess out there. Hope things improve very soon. Let me know if the water level gets high enough that you need me to come pull you out.. those frozen ropes are good for more than just necktie parties you know. :-)*
You would put it around my neck to "rescue" me!
I'm rewatching *Under Capricorn* with the hope of joining your discussion. And I'll try to watch one of "your" movies in the next group. Do you have any suggestions?
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*Let's hope no more hurricanes. I just pray we don't get another early, long winter. I'll just die.*
I'm afraid it's a coming.
*Very modern, in fact. Who is Livvy??*
Yes, it really is more of a modern phenomenon.
"Livvy" is Phoebe's (Kate) younger alter-ego. It's the girl she believes her love really wishes to be with.
*He is one of the greats that is hidden in plain sight. The Cabman is a wonderful achievement.*
Ooooohhh, I like that! "Hidden in plain sight."
*Or anyone marrying Blodgett. His character annoyed me.*
Yeah, that was a really bad character for poor Ralph.
*Even Rider on the Rain?*
Especially that one. While Mellie isn't actively seeking a meaningul love, she comes to find out she's missing that. Her husband really doesn't care about her. She's just someone he returns home to. Dobbs (Charles Bronson) spends all his time with her. He's taken the time to get to know her. He has ulterior motives, but those motives still provide her with more love and attention than her husband provides her with.
*He's American, alright. Did you see the twist coming, in who his character was?*
No, not really. I thought the film does a good job of keeping you in the dark with who Dobbs really is and what he's really up to.
*Surreal is a good choice of words. He's so out of place yet he's completely at ease and in control. And yet that final moment with the walnuts...that was a nice touch.*
That little moment gives the film heart. That and the bullet. Funny how that can equate "heart."
*And Mellie's outfits! Love all the white.
* Terrible!
*The mother was interesting, so sour yet like Dobbs (Bronson), she had a hidden heart.*
She was really interesting. The flashbacks to Mellie's youth were surprising. Some "*Marnie*," there.
*Now as for the husband, I don't think he had anything but a stupid vanity and ego. I couldn't stand him.*
He's your kind of guy!
*I think she and him end up divorced 20 minutes after the film story ends.*
You're always looking to divorce people!
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*Amazing. 30 inches.*
That's why we have some of the flooding. The ground is completely saturated. It was struggling to soak in.
*So he just goes along with her little game? Why did she think she needed to act differently then?*
It's all about female insecurity. When faced with seeing her love (Franchot Tone) for the first time in ten years, Phoebe (Katharine Hepburn) says, "I've lost all my looks." Her love doesn't immediately recognize her when he first sees her, and this increases her insecurity. He also tells her that she looks "tired." She believes her love doesn't want her because she's showing her age. That he wants a young, thoughtless girl. Sound familiar, Livvy?
*The music is what tipped me off, first. Then of course, her coming out of a sanitorium, her name, the female domination, the stuffy New England setting. It's an interesting reworking of Now, Voyager and a good example of how to do a "remake". I'd like to read the book (Home Before Dark) to see if it, too, was a rip-off of Prouty's novel.*
And I never picked up on any of that! Have you read "Now, Voyager"?
*I didn't mind that it was on the lighter side.*
And that's why I didn't enjoy it as much.
*I agree about Boris, he was really a fine actor whose career took a different turn. He could have done the classics, exclusively.*
I love how he makes most every film better. He's such a serious actor, even though his entire career was basically "Bs."
*I thought March was well cast as the smug type and I love Ann Sothern in just about everything. Great gal.*
I especially liked her in *Trade Winds*. The only screwy part was her marrying Blodgett (Ralph Bellamy).
*They are complex human stories, I'll say that.*
Very much so. And the search for a meaningful love is at the heart of all three.
*I'm surprised you went for Rider on the Rain. It's so 60s-European.*
Bronson "Americanizes" it. That really helped.
*I just love Bronson's character, and I never really cared for his movies. This one is the exception. He's very enigmatic, and quite funny, too.*
I thought he was rather funny, too. He seems surreal with his total understanding of Mellie (Marlene Jobert). He's really tough on her but with a hidden heart.
*Most of all I love the "mood" of the film, the juxtaposition of filming normally glittering southern France in the dreary early spring, and the music. I have the soundtrack on CD.*
You're such a girl!
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*Oh I'm sorry...is it STILL raining there?*
The rain has finally moved on. The last hurrah was a 3-inch downpour that happened at midnight on Thursday. But that really pushed many areas over the top. Hershey has been hit the hardest.
*We had a beautiful day finally, here in NYC. And most of tomorrow is supposed to be nice. When will you guys catch a break? And then the horrid irony of the poor folks in the lone star State dying for one drop of rain to end that drought.*
It really is quite ironic. Sweet T is dealing with the devastating fires and we're dealing with the floods. Floods and fires.
*I am so vague on what I did see that I don't get the "Livvy" reference!*
Awful!
*So what did you like about Quality Street? Can you fill me in a little on the plot?*
It's a very sweet and charming film. It's very much a female fairy tale. I can see how Jackie really likes it. It's a good companion film for *Alice Adams*.
Jackie will do a much better job of explaining the plot than I. Basically, it's a story about a girl who falls for a man who goes away to war. When he returns, it's ten years later, and time has taken its toll on the young girl. She's now a 30-year-old woman. Her love remarks about her change. So she decides to remove the societal expectations of a woman her age and return to her less-inhibited youthful ways and this catches the eye of her love. The fairy-tale twist is, her love doesn't recognize her. Or does he? So she pretends to be the young niece of her friend, "Livvy."
It's a lovely little film. Just as *Alice Adams* is.
*There are a few of my "tippy top" favorites in there. Home Before Dark is the new one on my list, and it's at the top of the group. I just love that movie, the story and most of all, Jean's character (and Efram).*
Jean is fantasic in *Home Before Dark*. She's in "Viven Leigh" country. I enjoyed Efrem, too.
*Wow! I'm stunned that you actually rank Fred and Ginger ABOVE Karloff. I liked Night Key a lot...Wardy and Karloff!
*I didn't enjoy *Night Key*. I thought it was silly. I greatly prefer *The Man They Could Not Hang*, which features a similar story. I did like Ward, though.
*In fact, except for Trade Winds, this is a group of films I truly enjoy.*
Joan Bennett! She can do no wrong with me. The group of films was on the "lesser" side for me with the exception of the top ones.
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*Someone's cheerful!*
I was talking about the state of Harrisburg and Hershey!
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/09/susquehanna_river_forecast_aga.html
*I don't care but I'll guess.
* Snippy!
*I haven't seen Quality Street all the way through, so I can't really rank it properly.*
You haven't? Really? And you used to be a big Kate fan when you were a Livvy!
*1. Home Before Dark*
*2. Rider on the Rain*
*3. Top Hat*
*4. Two for the Seesaw*
*5. Two Flags West*
*6. San Francisco*
*7. Dark Command*
*8. Night Key*
*9. Trade Winds*
Very good! I would guessed about that order for you.
My order:
1. Home Before Dark (4)
2. Two for the Seesaw (3)
3. Rider on the Rain (8)
4. San Francisco (9)
5. Trade Winds (2)
6. Two Flags West (1)
7. Dark Command (6)
8. Quality Street (7)
9. Top Hat (10)
10. Night Key (5)
*
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A Walk on the Noir Side
in Film Noir--Gangster
Posted
That was expressed beautifully, CinemAva! We're in agreement with a lot. I shall look to reply to you tomorrow night.