FrankGrimes

Are you going to view any of the Ryan festival, Lively Gal? I like the schedule. I've seen 16 of the 24 films.

*I was really crying by the end.* So was I. The ending really hit me good. I was not prepared for it. *Laughton puts on quite a show, and anyone can see how he could be so taken by Vivvy's "Liberty".* He is masterful in the film and Vivien is always darling. I could really identify with "Charlie." Sometimes things just don't go your way in life and love. *Funny, I watched The Big Street last night and the stories sort of remind me of each other.* Oh, yeah? If that's the case, I'll end up liking it.

*I'm watching* *Sidewalks of London...I forgot how great a little film it is! So delightful!* It is. It really is. I was surprised by how much I ended up loving it.

*I have to say, of all the unique comparisons you've pulled out of your rabbit hat, that's one of the sharpest. I'm impressed.* Awwww, thank you. That was sweet of you to say. Are you all right? *I'm impressed with ALL the company she (me) keeps here. What a classy, saavy group. The big wig critics of today should write half so interestingly about movies.* I'm in complete agreement. I have gained so much from the "rambles." And I'm not just talking about the films. Sparks. Lots and lots of sparks.

*Wow, I never would have thought of all movies, The Little Foxes. How on earth did you figure that out? Talk about worlds apart....yet they both really are about "get us the foxes, the little foxes that spoil the grapes...."* It just hit me today because the final shots in each film are identical with the exception of the focus. Then I realized the love stories are pretty much identical (Romeo and Juliet, as Jackie said) and the setting of a "court" (power struggle) was identical. It's just one is a king and the other is a queen.

*I love the comparison to The Little Foxes! That's great. Wish I'd thought of it.* Thank you, Arly. It actually dawned on me today that the two films are similar. I figured I'd have to explain myself with my saying *Sweet Smell of Success* actually ends up being a "woman's picture." My basis for that is the focus at the end. That's when I realized the two films end exactly the same, but with the focus flipped. Then I realized the love story in each film is very similar and that the power struggle is very similar. *The Little Foxes* is more of a full story versus a snapshot, such as *Sweet Smell of Success*, though.

Hi, CinemAva -- *By the by Frank, did you check out Steve Hayes' review of "SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS" that I cited a coupla posts below? He's the wild and crazy guy that does classic film reviews on YouTube. Didja watch it?* No, I didn't. I'm just not a fan of his. *I would still disagree with your opinion. Susie's story is in the background and a subtext. Her story is valid...this young woman trying to gain her independence...trying to reach towards love and openness. But I really think "SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS" is the Herculean and symbiotic struggle between these two men. I see your screen caps...and it does sound logical. But my senses didn't take me in that direction as I watched the story. Keeping her was the raison d'etre of J.J.'s being.* I can definitely understand that. We are being led to believe that the film is all about J.J. (the king) and we are learning about the "king" through Sidney, the "jester." Since it's his court, this makes it his story. But directors can be sneaky. Mackendrick messes with us and reveals the real focus at the very end. The king and jester are along for the ride, too. Susie is the one with the power and Mackendrick makes it a point to show us she's the one with the power. Take *The Searchers*. The story is about finding Debbie (Natalie Wood) but the director's final shot tells us the focus of the story was actually Ethan (John Wayne) and finding himself. If John Ford closed on a shot of Ethan celebrating with the family, then the story would have been about finding Debbie. I had seen *Sweet Smell of Success* a couple times prior to my recent viewing and I loved it for the viper-tongued powerplay between J.J. and Sidney. I love how "big" they are. On this latest viewing, I actually noticed the women and how they were painted. I was completely blind to them in the past because they were very, very "quiet" (background) compared to the "loud" men (foreground). I finally "heard" them this time. It made me realize that these "big" men turned very "small" by film's end. It's fascinating.

What's the score, Lively Gal -- What a sensational write-up for *Sweet Smell of Success* ! You are exceptional at combining your "voice" with such superb language. It's an amazing skill that you possess. It's remarkable, really. *Frank Grimes mentions that all the women in "SSS" have heart. I hear you man, I agree. They do. At heart I don't think this movie is a women's story though the crux of it surrounds the core: young couple in love in the midst of filth. It's the story of snakes, scumbags and despots and the attractive young lovers caught in the middle.* The reason I say it's a woman's story is because of the focus at the end. The final shot is of Susie and her leaving. What surrounds Susie is a lot testosterone and male dominance, but the actual story is Susie's. It's just very much hidden in the background. Basically, this is a male version of *The Little Foxes*. The difference is the end focus. The focus is flipped, as you will see: *The Little Foxes* finishes on Regina (Bette Davis). This lets us know the focus is on her. She steps back into the shadows. *Sweet Smell of Success* finishes with a focus on Susie. We are being told this is really about Susie, not J.J.

*Men in War* is a good one for me since it's Anthony Mann. *Talk of The Town (preachy but fun for Colman and Grant having at each other)* I just recently watched it. I guess I didn't talk about it on the board. *Bad Day At Black Rock* I actually haven't watched that in about five years. I wouldn't mind seeing it again. *And of course a few westerns* *The Tin Star* *Tribute To A Bad Man* *No Name on The Bullet* I only have *The Tin Star*, and I'd like to see it because that's another Mann flick.

*I can't imagine what you haven't seen but let me think on a few.* I haven't seen many war flicks. That's a wide open territory with me.

*I got* *murder by contract from netflix today so I'll try to watch and post on it tonight or tomorrow. it's from 1958 so i'm not sure i'll like it. i find the later "noirs" generally too violent or grim but i'll try to keep an open mind. * You ain't gonna like it! But I do like that you are going to watch it. I'd say there's a chance that Jackie may like it a little. It's on the quirky side (strange sense of humor) and pays homage to *The Third Man*.

*Not really.* What?! We need to change that! Let's get you going. I've been trying to watch one of Quiet Gal and Spunky's favorite films in my batches of ten. I need to watch some of your faves. Any favorite films of yours you'd like to discuss? I'm talking about ones that I have never seen. Guide me down some new paths.

*I'll see you tomorrow. "Sweet" dreams. * Nicely done! "Sweet" dreams to you!

*She wants them to be high hat. To be above others in their neighborhood. I remember.* Right. If she would say, "we need a new chair because this one is ruined," that would be good. But she's thinking, "everyone is going to see we're poor!" That's not good. Basically, she's saying, you become good people if you have money and possessions. And I do know those kind of people are out there. Thankfully, I'm not around any of them. *I know how it feels to be looked at as the poor relation. It's hard because other people looking down their nose at you has the effect of making you want to look down your nose at someone else. You don't feel like you are on the footing of the people who hurt you unless you are better than someone else. It's catching, and that is what is horrible about it. It also puts those who hurt you on a pedestal as something they are not, gives them power over your life. The bullied becomes the bully. I work hard in this area of the country to fight those mean spirited feelings.* That's excellent, Jackie. You're right about that. It really does take a strong person to handle being different than the rest, be it whatever those differences are. I'd say it's one of the most difficult things we have to deal with when confronting Society. Can we accept being different? Can we accept people possibly thinking less of us because we are different? It's a test of strength and courage. *With sauerkraut in them!* No, you can just toss that in the pot with the pork! *I like that. Can I use it to refer back to?* Sure. I think it's very important to treat your loved ones throughout the year. Little surprises go a long way. And if you can speak your feelings with those surprises, you've got something.

*The kicker with Otis is that Rita had already slept with him another time.* *"Don't tell Sidney," she said.* Yes, you're right. As Jackie says, it's a dirty little twist. But I still liked Rita because she wanted to keep that from Sidney. She wanted him to see her in a good light. But he doesn't care about her on that level.

*That's such a standout scene. DId you notice how MacKendrick's camera is staring down at her from above when she finally has to make the decision? The lighting is such, you see bags under her eyes, and she looks small. Sydney walks out of the light while she decides, she is alone, and he really makes her feel that gulf widening between them, the rat.* Wow! Great catch! It really was shot exceptionally well. I just feel so bad for her because she's thrilled that Sidney is going to spend the night with her but he ends up pawning her off. Devastating.

*Wow. I can't believe you thought that of me.* Actually, I didn't think that of you. That's why I was surprised when I thought you said you wanted to keep up with the Joneses. *No, I thought I was very clear in saying that running up and hiding in the study is no way to teach your kids. They certainly won't understand about why you should be happy with what you've got, if you're not even there to prove it to them. I was saying that the matter WILL come up, no matter how you try to put it off or blot it out, and no matter how you raise your kids. You could be the best parent in the world and they are still going to want things they can't have. It's going to come up over and over, as kids meet new people at school, as they see others with things they think they want, as the standard of living sets higher and higher levels for people, and as the middle class earns less and less. Running away, or just telling your kid to forget about it is not going to teach anything.* Oh! Yes, I completely agree with that. I believe you should always reinforce your feelings with your child. You should never run from that. As you say, if they don't come from the home, they are gonna come from someplace else. You must take an active role in your child's life. However, I do not believe a parent should dominate a child's life. I don't believe in crowding a child. Again, it's about balance. *That was really nicely said. I also like seeing such relationships. I think the pressures of Society start to creep into a marriage and home over time because we become settled in life. But we must allow it to do so. Mrs. Adams has allowed this to happen.* *I think you mean musn't. and I completely agree with that... those pressures are hard to fight off in this day and age, and so you have to be hands on with your kids, not just expect them to know how to fight those pressures on their own.* I did mean to say "must" but I worded it horribly. What I was trying to say is that a couple decides how much power Society has within the home and marriage. They assign the weight. They are the ones who decide to allow Society to enter the home. I do know that Society just forces itself into the home, at times, but we still control how much sway Society will possess within. *What were her reasons again? I haven't seen it in a long time.* Mrs. Adams' primary reason is Alice's ability to compete with the other girls for men. She feels Alice and the family need to keep up with the Joneses. I do think Alice should have a new gown and Miss G is right about the house being improved some. Mr. Adams could certainly do a little more than he is. *You like snippy? I'll try it more often! * You'll need some skillets, too! *It's great if you have the money to be able to spoil them.* You can spoil within your means. Is it the major spoiling that the materialistic demand? No. But you can still spoil. *I agree, if you don't have to wait, it's not anything special when you do get it.* That's how I feel. *I don't argue well. I either worry that I was too harsh, or I get emotional then feel guilty.* I know. I think it's cute. You like to lash or you go real quiet and then you want to make up. The lash is better than the real quiet, especially when there is a make up. A real quiet woman is a woman a man should always worry about.

That could be! I'm not that big on Tony Curtis and I'm a huge fan of Richard Widmark. My favorite scene in the film was Rita (Barbara Nichols) being pressured into spending the night with Otis (David White). I really felt for her. She was so excited to see Sidney. She wants his love so badly. And what does she get in return? She's to sleep with a guy at Sidney's begging! Unreal.

*That's very interesting. I never thought of it that way. It does have a woman's sensibility to it.* The film ends with the focus on Susan (Susan Harrison). She ends up taking control away from J.J. *One of my favorite parts is when the husband and wife are sitting in the restaurant and Sydney tells him he's going to blow his affair wide open, and the husband finally says to go ahead, and he steps out from under the weight of his guilt - the wife is the one who, without ever looking up, says something like "that's the first time in years you've shown a spine" and you know it's going to be rough for them but she will stand by him. It's very moving, the way those two play the scene together.* It really is a terrific scene. And that kind of sets the stage for the women in the film. She seems to be a ditz but she knows more about what's going on than the men. She's much stronger than any of the men. *We see all those women - ones who get used or sit at home and wait - some wait for a big break, some wait for Sydney, some wait for their husbands to act like real men, and some wait for someone to just take them away from that corrupt environment.* Right. They are at the mercy of these men and they show so much more heart than any of the guys with the exception of Steve Dallas (Martin Milner). *I really like Susan Harrison as Susie Hunsucker, I'm almost afraid to ask what happened to her as an actress... after hearing about Tom Neal.* She comes off very young and overwhelmed. She fits the situation perfectly. *I also have to say I totally relate to Susie. That's me a few years ago.* Really? How so? *I especially like JJ's secretary. She's another of Sydney's enablers, but I like her attitude of worn humor and care for him, a bit like a mother. Isn't there another character like her in Some Like it Hot?* Was she Mary (Edith Atwater)? She was very good. You hit the nail on the head, she's like a mother who knows her boy is a rascal but she loves him all the same. She loved his charms. *I HATE to say after writing this, I realize Sydney IS my Harry Fabian. Drat! You've caught me out. * And what's funny is that I'm not that big on Sidney but I like Harry, yet they play rather similar characters. It must be the actors and the kind of weasels they are playing. *He's such a lowlife, but you can see how he got that way, one step at a time.....and that there is finally a line he doesn't want to cross, but has to...just like everyone else he made do it in the movie, except for Martin Milner. Oooh! it's so upsetting... I find so many moments in this movie where I want to scream at the TV don't do it!* That's funny! I like the entire "cat and mouse" with J.J. and Sidney. Such users.

*I'm not so sure. Boys love the vivacious, bubbly (and consequently, "popular") girls quite often. And as Jackie pointed out, in the book, the boy does not come back. Reinforcing that the code was strict. "You don't have? Then you stay on your own side of the tracks."* Then is that guy really worth all the trouble? *I"m afraid men are much more like this today, than even then. College educated men, that is. Sadly, the more educated they become, the more status conscious they become as well. Women have to "measure up" and be "worthy" of them, whereas it used to be the other way around. It's gone from one extreme to another, and girls like "Alice" still fall through the cracks.* Yes, the men of money need a trophy wife. But I know far more regular guys and gals. I guess it's all about what area you live in.

*Alright. To be fair I admire that he was rather a pure soul, I do not believe he was aware of ANY of the effects of his choices and attitudes. And his meekness about life in general was one of his virtues, it's the blind adoration of the boss that was misplaced and the lack of interest in his home.* And I think that's what I'm responding to. I'm seeing the wife just chewing out the husband over not making enough money so that their daughter can be like the other girls and snag a rich man. I would dislike a man who was berating a woman like that. *The saddest moment to me in the whole movie sums up his relationship to reality and his relationship with his daughter:* * "Alice, you don't care about going to parties and all that do you? Is it so important?"* *And all Alice could do is run and cry. He probably saw Alice as still a little girl who didn't need finery and friends, and who looked up to him as her hero. But she was becoming a woman and it wasn't really fair to* *assume she was so unlike most other girls as to not want certain things to be a certain way. If he'd taken just a little more pride as you say, she might have felt more confident herself and less dependent on the idea of being popular. But her father was furtive and her mother was fretful...how do you get to be confident in an ambience like that (unless you're like her brother who just gets the heck out of the house as much he can and small blame to him).* Look at you! That was wonderful. That was a good moment because it validated the mother's berating the father. The thing is, Alice really didn't need to change anything. She was being led to believe she needed to. But it was untrue. You women love to believe we men see some fancy girl and think she's great and that a plain girl won't do a thing for us. Not even close. Women create their own monsters. But they want to. *So it's not about blaming Mr. Adams, I see it as Kathy said, they all had weaknesses and unfortunately they were the kind of weaknesses that society in small and big towns alike prey on. The snobs will look down their noses, the boss will patronize and exploit his employees, the mothers will nag and the fathers will hide. It's a darned heavy movie to depict all that, if you ask me. I think Stevens did a sensational job.* That's an excellent point. There really is a lot going on in *Alice Adams*. There is real depth to the film.

*Did I make it seem like I DO want to keep up with the Joneses? Or that I was trying to teach my daughter to do so? I certainly hope not.* That's how I took it! I thought you were saying the Mister doesn't wish to play that game and it frustrates you. I was actually surprised to hear you would want to keep up with the Joneses. That doesn't seem like your style. *I was trying (I guess not very well) to understand why a woman like Mrs. Adams would feel like her daughter did not have enough of the finer things in life, I was NOT condoning her behavior in any way. These are the kinds of things that I find fascinating in characters and relationships. How, over time, a woman and a man who are obviously nice people, who love one another, would end up doing things or feeling things that they might not realize are destructive to their whole family.* That was really nicely said. I also like seeing such relationships. I think the pressures of Society start to creep into a marriage and home over time because we become settled in life. But we must allow it to do so. Mrs. Adams has allowed this to happen. I would be all right if she wanted to make her house a little nicer or dress her daughter a little nicer but not for the reasons she does. That's where the problem lies. *I just didn't want Mrs. Adams to be castigated as the only one who contributed to the Adams family (hee hee) problems.* And you and the other gals have succeeded! You've helped me to understand the situation better, especially from a woman's point of view. Mrs. Adams just happens to represent the kind of woman that really bothers me. But I do believe she's still a good woman. She's just lost her way. *I am sorry if my last comment came off sounding snippy.* That's always good with me! *I didn't mean it to, I meant it as a bit of a joke. Men are not the only ones who have a hard time dealing with issues like this. It comes up, and not just once, but over and over again, and we can't always run off to the study. We deal with it, and it doesn't always come at the time you want it to. You don't get the choice of when to deal and when not to. My last comment was not supposed to be a cut to you or to Mr. Favell.* Oh, I'm glad to hear it. What's funny about me is that I'd rather spoil my wife and children than not. I just don't like those who expect it or demand it. You'll never make those types happy. It also removes the special feeling a person gets when they get nice things if they are always getting them. *I guess the general fear that men have of "women's stuff" mystifies me.* It's not really a fear. I think it's more about us finding it to be silly. The kind of things girls and women worry about and fuss over is sometimes remarkable. And we men get all upset over the dumbest stuff, such as our sports teams losing. It plays both ways. *I hope I did not offend you?* Offend me? No! That was sweet of you to worry about that.

What's the word, Little Red Buick? -- *I guess I like him because there is such desperation behind everything he does. Even when he is pimping out that poor, poor Barbara Nichols to creepy Larry Tate, the feeling I have is not hatred of him - it's a sinking sensation in the pit of your stomach, not just for her, but for him. He's lost his soul, like Jabez Stone. You want him to do something good because you know he's capable of it..... but he's caught in a spider web, not really of his own making... he could break free, if he only would.* Wow! I would have never guessed you'd say that about Sidney Falco (Tony Curtis)! He's your "Harry Fabian"! And your usage of the word "pimping" is apropos. There's a lot of "****," too. That's very prevalent in the film and even more so today. So many people are selling themselves. *Burt is cold-blooded, but there's a sickness to it. A blank, demagogue-ish unholy power... it's so weird, but he reminds me of Lon Chaney Sr. in this role. I don't know why. When he gets mad at Milner toward the end, and talks about destroying him because he criticized "the audience", one just gets the impression that he is delusional. I feel something for him at the end, because people who are that tight within themselves, and have placed themselves that high up in their own mind don't fall easily...they fall hard, they shatter when they hit the ground.* Nicely said! I completely agree. J.J. is a despot. He's not only in love with himself, he's in love with having control over people. The only problem is that he cannot control his younger sister. *The scene where Sydney is swayed by JJ to take down Milner is one of the best I've seen - Sydney keeps talking about what he won't do, until he lets slip the one thing that he would sell his soul for and Burt turns his head, zero-ing in on the weak spot..... it's so good, with no grandstanding, acting wise. Mackendrick never let those actors rest on their laurels, it all zips by too quickly.* I love the direction, look (James Wong Howe), and music (Elmer Bernstein). What I find fascinating is that the film is mostly a scenario more so than a story, yet it's totally engrossing. After this recent viewing, I actually came away surprised to find this to be a woman's story behind all of that testosterone. Almost all of the women in the film come off very well. Almost all show a heart.

I don't disagree with anything you said, Fordy Guns. Mr. Adams did sit on his rear too much. So you've all helped me to see that. He should have taken more pride in himself and this would have helped him take more pride in his own home. You were all right to point out he needed to stand up to his wife more instead of looking to hide from her. I think he did that because he knew she was more right than wrong with her criticisms of him. And you are right about his kissing his boss' rear too much. But I believe he was afraid to rock the boat. He was a meek man. There's no getting around that.