CineMaven

"Mais Oui! Robert Sterling is not really my cup of tea." - < JACK FAVELL > Ah-haaaaa! Let me guesss...you like the Ben Johnson-type??? You know...like Ben Johnson?

It depends on who you are picnicking with, no?

"Since it's going to be 100 degrees Monday I guess I'll watch Cooper beat the snot out of Jack Lord. Maybe see it in a new light." - < movieman1957 > I saw that. ('Fraid I saw the stunt doubles too), but Cooper gave Lord quite the lickin' he deserved! And who knew John Dehner cut quite a figure as a Western baddie. And Julie London seemed like she'd be made for a Howard Hawks film. She was one...tough...cookie.

:x

Yes, yo're so right. T.

I hope so. That would be as big an audience as the one for the great Betty Hutton.

God Bless Gloria Grahame. Oh yeah, and America.

"Baa<hiccup>aaah," says the Maven. Let's all do our homework. But it's the Fourth of July weekend. I'm putting my homework aside to head to the Film Forum for today's Mannly screening: "MAN OF THE WEST." A different Gary Cooper, ey???? Well now....

Hello Mr. Devilment (aka FRANK GRIMES): ?Where the film really turned for me was when Lance and his people use dynamite against the homesteaders. That caused my jaw to drop. I was not expecting such a violent stand. It was impressive. And to see Lance and the men all go down in a blaze of glory, ala The Wild Bunch,... wow. Stunning. There's no medal coming for these men. They just fought for their people and the right to live freely.? You know, I was with the movie all along. But when I saw that (dynamite...no fair) my jaw dropped as well. I guess I stereotypically was expecting them to come out there with bows and arrows and whooping and some repeating rifles. I felt sorry for their fighting Goliath. The dynamite certainly leveled the playing field...literally. The dynamite looked industrial. The dynamite looked like the Indians had a real war vet on their team. That whole scene looked like a war movie to me. And yes, all's fair in love and war. ?The very end of the film is where I was moved to tears. To see Lance walking to his death in his cavalry uniform and then salute before dying, that did me in. It really struck a chord with me. If you're willing to have someone fight and die for the country, they deserve equal rights. What a powerful message and film. I was really taken by it.? Ugh! Awmigawd, that killed me. It almost felt to me like he was rubbing it in their face, that they actually killed one of their own. They did you know. Different skin color, different culture...but one of their own nonetheless. ?And, ironically, another aspect of Devil's Doorway that I liked was Paula Raymond, who played 'Orrie.' ...she reminded me of Gene Tierney....Paula wasn't all that deep in her performance but she was quite lovely. I liked that Orrie was a new lawyer and that Lance initially walked out on her because she was a woman lawyer. Yet another nice little ?civil rights? twist in this very ?civil rights? film.? I agree Frank. Both racial and sexual politics were tackled. ?Is it me or did Mann have 'Side Street', 'Winchester '73', 'The Furies', and 'Devil's Doorway' ALL come out in 1950? That's remarkable to me. And I must say, I love 50s films. There is such great depth and substance to be found in so many of them. For Mann to make such a film like 'Devil's Doorway' in 1950 says a heckuva lot.? Why do I get the feeling that Anthony Mann was considered back then to be just a journeyman director, with NOT the cachet of Hitchcock or Wyler or Ford by producers and Hollywood elite alike. (That's just my guess, ad I'm willing to hear his backstory if anyone knows it. Maybe the producers gave it to him b'cuz they knew he could tackle such a difficult subject. Over the years, I?ve learned to love 1950?s movies but it was not initially my first love when I stumbled on to classics. ?Yes, he has the advantage of both worlds. That's one of the reasons I ended up loving the scenes with his father. Lance wants to believe he's accepted in the "white man's" world and his father believes he is not. You even get the sense his father believes he shouldn't look to do so. There's the traditional way of life and the progressive way of life. Lance was trying to find a way to make both worlds come together, to work for him.? Didn?t his Dad say something about the scales being torn off of Lance?s eyes. His father knew that Lance could, should NEVER trust them. Didn't he even call h im Broken Lance while Father laid dying in bed?? And didn?t Lance get his first lesson when he forced the doctor to pay a house call?It?s a shock when you find out that buying into the dream doesn?t mean you?ll be treated fairly. Oh, that?s far far worse than finding out there?s no Sanity Clause. ?But I've come to like black-and-white films more so than color, especially when it comes to the psychologically-driven westerns and films noir.? I think I want my Westerns in glorious Cinemascopic Techni-VistaVision. The landscapes scream for it. But I got over that and had to accept it in ?DEVIL?S DOORWAY? in all its black and white glory. In fact, it being in black and white says to me, ?This is a serious Western. Not a shoot ?em up!!!? ?Calhern was excellent in the film. I hadn't seen him play such a nasty guy before. He didn't care about the law, he only wished to use the law to carry out his personal agenda of hate. I liked it when he said to Orrie, 'This is a local problem.' The splintering of the United States of America, ala the North vs. the South.? "This is a local problem." Where have I heard those words before?? Louis WAS very good, wasn?t he? His character is very reminiscent to what I?m seeing today, where the personal agendas of politicians are so paramount to them, that they absolutely would have no compunction to incite a race war in this country, just to get what they wanted. Remember that Congressman being spat on as he went up the steps to Congress last summer? Which Coolan did you think stirred up the --sheep-- masses to embolden someone to spit? SPIT??!! I was better off when I wasn?t paying attention to politics and just watching my ?old movies.? But the scales have been taken off my eyes as well. ?And I liked Rod MacDougall (Marshall Thompson). He was willing to lease the land from Lance. But Lance didn't want any part of this. This aspect of the film really grabbed me. Lance wasn't going to budge an inch. It's this kind of blind obsession with a cause that took my breath away. He was willing to put others in the line of harm for what had become a selfish reason. He had turned into Coolan.? I always liked actor Marshall Thompson who I remember from this tv show called ?Angel? and then there was, of course, ?Daktari.? Though I don?t think Lance had turned into Coolan, I do think he was poisoned and his heart was hardened. He was at the opposite end of the spectrum from Coolan, but really was just trying to live his life. I did recognize (as I wrote in my Mann thread) that Lance perhaps had people fighting for him that would only be beneficial for him. Now how does that make him any better than the other guy? ?Orrie reminded me of the film noir "good girl," who is often found pleading with the protagonist to stop, to ?wake up.? There is a stubbornness to causes and personal missions. You'll find this is many films noir, which is why ?Devil's Doorway? reminds me so much of a film noir. The girl will say, ?Can't you see?? The unspoken answer of the male protagonist is,?Can't you see?? ?[/i] (?Scuse me for changing your emphasis with my punctuation). I really liked this comparison to film noir, Frankie G. You?re a noir guy through and through. ?The 'genres' I most like are, I feel, best-suited for black and white; those being film noir, westerns, and horror.? For me...I do like my Westerns in color. I promise...I?ll pay attention. Just let me see azure blue skies, pale white puffy clouds, and copper auburn titian-colored rocks of red. ?Oh, I definitely understood why he did it, it just shocked me that was his decision. Why? Because he ended up destroying the land he didn't want destroyed. He was betraying himself. But I guess he'd rather be the one who destroyed the land versus the homesteaders.? All systems go...all systems failed Lance. I think he was going for a Pyrrhic Victory, but didn?t care if he won (though he did want to win. He planned to scorch the earth. Whew!! The people came a close second. But second nonetheless. "Jimmy (Henry Marco) does play an interesting role in the film. He's being raised in the traditional sense and yet he's going to eventually encounter the progressive. Can he make the two worlds work for him and his people? What he has already witnessed with young eyes could definitely make him bitter and angry. A vicious cycle may continue.? Excellent! Excellently encapsulated. The next generation and the next and the next and the next and the... Aaaah Mr. Grimes. My constant hero!

Hi there Ro-Ro-Ro, Rohanaka: ?It was heavy handed sometimes. But I think it was a good way to demonstrate the ?change? that had come to town (in terms of the laws and the newcomers and their whole mindset being different from what he was used to knowing before the war) I really liked the emotional struggle that the people who he had considered "friends" were feeling (especially the sherriff) He did not like the changes he was seeing... and he really hated what his job was forcing him to do.? You?re right...that was really tough. When Lance was not to be served a drink, I liked the Saloon Keeper saying something like ?There?s no law saying I can?t buy you a drink.? It was hard for people to stand up to some injustices when the prevailing belief was that some are not even human. But oh, what a difference it would make if the other patrons saw the Saloon keeper say, "I don't care what the law says Lance. Have some whiskey on me and I don't care what Rand Paul says!!!" ?If I had to pick a fave for Mann.. hmm.. It would likely be ?The Furies.? But after that.. I would say Maybe ?The Man from Laramie? or ?Bend of the River.? What can I say.. ha. I am a Stewart gal. ha.? Oh no doubt Anthony Mann helped invigorate James Stewart?s career. As for "THE FURIES" I?m looking forward to catching it next Tuesday on the Film Forum screen. I?ve seen it before, can?t take Wendell Corey, but the soap opry-ness of the big emotions is pulling me in. And then there?s Stanwyck?s vengeance and that scissor throwing scene. Check this out when you get a chance: and get back to me on that. ?One of the things that was really sort of an "eye opener" for me personally was the perspective of WHERE he was fighting (and what for). Most films involving the removal of Native Americans from land center around "reservations" or tribes getting pushed off of one place and taken to another. This was different. He wasn't fighting for some vaguely defined ?open range? of land. It was a ?settled? ranch... That is not to say that a scenario where you end up forcing thousands of people off of a ?reservation? is a more "right" way to do things in terms of the way it all was carried out much of the time back then... but this sceanario w/ Lance and his home was (for me) much more easy to relate to.? I hadn?t thought of it that way Rohanaka. Great point you make. See, now the government is trying to run you off your own land; your land in a legal way, not in the sweeping ?An Indian IS his land? kind of way. It all looked specifically to be Coolan?s own personal vendetta. He was pathological about ?Sweet Meadows.? Like a beautiful woman being ?defiled? by the mere touch of an Indian. Oooooh, I really hated Louis Calhern in this movie. He was really very good. Oooh I hate him!!!!! ?But issues of race aside, almost ANYONE could relate to the feelings Lance and his family were experiencing in the situation they were in. It made it much more personal (at least to me) and gave me an even greater sense of empathy for him.? I agree...and check it out, he was selling cattle...cattle country...people liked cattle...they wanted cattle. He put his money in the town bank. He didn?t put his $18,000 under a mattress or under a rock in the Black Hills. The bank could use his money...he?d earn interest. Did he flaunt it or was it just merely he had it and they had not. What was the problem? What turned the tide against Lance? If I may say, it might make it an easier story to digest to see it as personal, it's his own land. Let's make it harder, is it fair based pure and simply: race. If you leave the government alone, it kind of leaves you alone. So my only conclusion is that it was Coolan?s doing all this, stirred up the pot and reared the ugly (pathologically jealous) head of racism. ?I think the sherriff WANTED Lance to be treated as fairly as anyone else... but he did not want to stick his neck out and ?buck? the system. But truthfully.. what more could he do? If he had walked away from his sworn duty...it might have been a ?symbolic? gesture...but it wasn't going to change the outcome of what eventually happened, sad to say.? I could be wrong, not being a Western aficionado but I?m thinking of Gary Cooper?s ?HIGH NOON? western hero and how he would perhaps CHALLENGE the law and help Lance. Coop did what?s right regardless of the law. (Am I off my nut here? I know I'm being repetitive). ?To feel you have been ?disenfranchised? by the very government you once were sworn to protect and defend (with great honor and sacrifice I might add) was like adding insult to injury for him. It truly was a slap in the face to all the things he did to earn that medal. To say he no longer had the right to be treated as an equal 'citizen' after giving so much for the sake of the ones who were now working against him... very tragic.? Very wonderfully put. I believe there are people thinking this as we write. You can't shake that feeling. You wear it like a shroud. Very tragic. It informs the way people go through life...angry at every little thing...every little slight. And accidentally bump into them on the subway. Oooh babe!! ?And he only went against the law when he saw that the law he SHOULD have been able to rely on for protection had turned on him instead.? Are you talking about our Message Board again?? ?But holding on to bitterness forever eventually only hurts YOU in the end. And sometimes taking responsibility for your future (by using the GOOD things one learns from bad situations like that) can truly turn out to be a great thing in the right hands. I guess I am just saying that I HOPE they were able to somehow rise out of the ashes and use the things that made them strong (in spirit).? So true Ro. One can stay in the cycle of hate and rage (?the Angry Black Man?) and be able to hide behind that rage to avoid doing something to better one?s life. You keep the blame from you and put it on someone else instead of taking responsibility for what you CAN change. No one wants to keep hearing: ?You OWE Me!!!? Ugh! Dude, get a life. Get your life!!

MovieMan, How the Heck Are Ya?!: ?The thing that struck me and it is a significant part is that even though Taylor had earned the Congressional Medal of Honor it made no difference to anyone in town. The respect that honor demands was absent and there was no way they would give it to him all because he was an Indian. The bigger issues of land and heritage and rights over shadow that one aspect later but it demonstrates that sometimes others can't have done enough to earn a little respect.? I shudder to think back to those Black infantry men returning to the States after World War I. Ha! No picnic either. I?m also thinking of how Edgar Buchanan (Sheriff Zeke) knew Lance as a little boy, and hung out with his father when they were younger men..and now, all THAT is thrown out the window too. You can never, EVER do enough for people who hate pathologically hate your very existence. ?The sheriff was trying to have it both ways. He respected Lance and wanted his treatment to be better but, you are correct, he wasn't going to go up against the crowd. He wanted to wait it out, rationalize with them and, in a western, that wasn't going to work.? For it being Edgar Buchanan I thought he played kind of a strong character (for him). I wonder what Sheriff Zeke could have been if he had the moral backbone of Coop in ?HIGH NOON.? I?d have loved to see many factions of the Old West mythology going up against each other. But you're right MM'57...you cannot have it both ways. ?I wonder if he was already there to and was planning to do the whole thing before Lance came home. I doubt he would have known who Lance was much less his connection to the land. Lance only served as an obstacle to him. He was stirring up trouble when Lance first shows up. Even though most of the others knew Lance and seemed to like him that didn't stop Coolan from making trouble. It was one more way to stir up the people against Lance.? Good point, MovieMan. It seemed that Lance was kind of known in town and that he was kind of a good ol? boy, not ?one of those trouble-makin? redskins? and folks had many an opportunity to kind of speak up without costing them too much. But they didn?t. They just watched and listened and cowardly hung back and let Coolan spew his filth. The way he talked so lovingly of Sweet Meadows, I wonder if this all was pre-meditated and then Lance just put a face on Coolan's hate. ?Since MissG brought it up I'll second her comment on how enlightening and deep everyone has made this discussions on westerns. I think people often dismiss them for being formulaic and pedestrian but everyone has shown there is a depth to be found in many of these films. It has been so interesting. The fun part is I never know what is coming next.? It's grand to be the OP of so many threads and have a gazillion trillion posts. But I'll take one good in depth discussion over a lot else I've seen on the Board.

"I hope the Mave is okay. She went through the Devil's Doorway this afternoon and hasn't been seen since!" I made it through the "DEVIL'S DOORWAY" and I think I'm a better person and better Maven for it. Howdy Miss G., the Queen of the West: ?I didn't think about it being heavy handed since the subject matter would be hard put to be presented in a subtle way. Indian fights for the land in the Union, then fights the Union for his land.? Nice turn of phrase. I?ve had my issues with young men going to fight (since Vietnam when I was in high school) for a system that might not gratefully reward them on their return. ?That scene was remarkable to me, too. Remarkable, in part, because Lance is probably using a fight strategy he learned as a Union soldier. Later, in the scene where they sneak behind the enemy ?line? to stab some of them is more like the ?Indian fighting? we typically see in movies.? You?d know better than I, you being a queen of the West, but I can?t recall seeing the Indians in movies winning so handily with that up close and personal tactic. I usually see them up on horses, whooping, hollerin' and shooting with bows and arrows. ?That is a heavy duty emotional ending. My tears began as soon as he looked at his Union jacket, hanging on the wall, just before he goes out and surrenders. You can see all the pain of defeat on his face and all the irony.? Again, to me it felt like he was throwing up in their face just really what they did. And also, that he was proud to have worn that Union uniform and all that it meant and stood for. They did not play fair with Lance. They should feel guilty all the rest of their days for that. But they won?t. Miss G., you?re not big on Paul Newman??? WoW! I?ve never heard a woman say that. I guess if I ask ?Why? I?ll have to find that answer in a different thread. WhY? ?Calhern was so good at those smiling, oily rogues. His manipulation of the sheepmen reminded me of his character in ?Notorious? how he, from safety, manipulated others to do the dirty work for him.? My goodness yes, he was despicable, wasn?t he? I think of him in ?THE ASPHALT JUNGLE? where he tries to hide himself in the commission of their caper. You know...the business man who doesn?t want to get his hands dirty. In ?DEVIL?S DOORWAY? I was kind of expecting him to be in town when the fighting started...not wanting to actually get his hands bloody. I really wanted him to be beaten within an inch of his life...ON CAMERA and THEN killed. Louis Louis Louis. Oh my!!!!! Why did Mann pull his punch with that comeuppance I wonder. ?Maybe a hundred years from now it would have worked.? Yes that is a great line...and I think we still have a little ways to go on that score, but it was waaay better than before. ?That is perfectly described because my frustration with her was that she seemed so unequal to every situation she faced. However, I can see how this serves to show a point. The most well meaning and understanding people,and there were many of them in the old west, if they are not in the seat of power, canoften seem helpless to bridge the gaps and inequali-ties for those they wish to aid. She was sincere in wanting to help, but she ended up sending for the agents of Lance's destruction.? I really loved how you expressed this. ?I've always loved b&w best. John Ford called it "real photography" that required real artistry to use, as opposed to color, which made things easy. Black and white cinematography calls attention to itself, to the filmmaker's themes and works to focus on the actors' inner lives more than color can inmost cases. It's like an X-ray.? I hear what you?re saying. Black and white WILL make you pay attention and not get lost in the dreaminess of the color. But I?m a visual learner perhaps. Hmmmm....colourrrrrrrrrrr. ?Aha! Yes, indeed. He was a real devil. He was like Satan, in how he used human nature against itself. He knew everyone's weaknesses, their greed, their honesty, their naivete, their tendency to follow his advice and believe his words, even though he never backed up his words. "When were you in Cheyenne?" "Oh, I guess it must have been a couple of years before the war..." I remember that...and I thought that he was a lying sack of, awwwright...manure! And his statement did give Ike pause. I liked that Mann revealed that...like Hitchcock reveals and makes the audience privy to information that the other movie characters don't know. ?I think they were money motivated, but his basic character was definitely bigoted. He wasn't out to wipe out the Indians, he was out to grab as much prime land and if the sheepmen were the ones standing in his way instead of the Indians, he'd have seen to their demise just as surely. He'd have talked about the ?stink? of sheep, ha.? Coolan was definitely a User and Manipulator and a Bigot. But could it have been Land-Motivated. Go back...listen the way he longingly wistfully spoke about Sweet Meadows. It sounded like paradise. But I think he wanted to wipe out the lot of them "Injuns." ?He was very human. This kind of reminds me a little of 'Sergeant Rutledge.' In that one, a victim of bigotry who is also a military hero, seeks justice via the white man's military tribunal, and it's ultimately ambiguous whether he gets it, despite a weakly tacked on ending. You still get the feeling that no matter how much these men gave or how gallantly they acted, they had no chance and their whole life of valor counted for nothing when their basic rights collided with white interests.? True dat, Sistuh!!! Speak the the Truth!! I really love reading your writing.

Hi there MovieMan...Hey Jackaaaaaaay. I think I shall go over here, http://forums.tcm.com/jive/tcm/thread.jspa?threadID=133953 and wade through the posts. I'll add more comments there. For my thread here, it was just an overview and my general thoughts of how "DEVIL'S DOORWAY" affected me. (I think this is another movie our politicians should watch and our citzenry as well. I'm telling you, I see more and more Coolans every day in politics). Thanxx for your patience. Well, heeere goes.

?Where are the others?? ?We?re all gone.? Aahhh racism..what a many-splendored thing. I think Mann acquits himself nicely with command of the Western. He certainly captured the landscape with his right hand 'Mann' (John Alton) that made the vistas look like Ansel Adams photographs. In ?DEVIL'S DOORWAY? Mann tackles a couple of social issues dovetailing each other, weaving a tale that is the fabric of America. And what a shameful garment it produced. Robert Taylor plays Lance Poole, Native American. Okay, so I admit, for a fleeting moment I thought, maybe Jay Silverheels could do this role. But the moment passed quickly and I admired the depth Robert Taylor brought to the role. We get a whole history lesson through his eyes. Lance comes home from the battles of Antietam and Gettysburg a decorated hero of the Civil War. He?s got the Congressional Medal of Honor to prove it. But you know how our country rolls. We?ll take your help (9/11 First Responders, war vets, oil spill cleaner-uppers, etc) and as soon as we?re finished with you...as soon as you?ve served your purpose (or is it our purpose) your buns are kicked to the curb. And you?d better not complain about it either or we'll kick you again!! Take THAT and your pre-existing condition! Taylor?s Lance is just trying to cash in on the promise of the American dream; it might not be a ?car in every garage/chicken in every pot? but a horse in every stable / herds of cattle in every corral. At the end of the day, he?s reaping the rewards of hard work. The fly in the ointment is Louis Calhern. My God, I found Louis Calhern as lawyer Verne Coolan, to be so hatefully spiteful and spitefully hateful!! His smarmy snake oil salesman type voice and logic rounds up the --sheep-- uhm, men in town to do his bidding. And what is his bidding??? The annihilation of the American Indian. It was his own personal vendetta against all of them. Guys, I have to tell you, in all my movie memory I haven?t wished for a film to have a more happy ending than I was wishing for ?Devil?s Doorway.? I was re-writing plots in my head. I was trying to think of a way out of the mess that was sure to come; call the cavalry sooner, expose lawyer Coolan. Have the townsmen NOT stick their neck and ethics out to this charlatan. Maybe Coolan is part-Native American himself so this is an issue of self-hatred. But alas, that was NOT to be. I couldn't change a darned thing. ?All right, I just watched ?Devil's Doorway.? I'm not sure if you've seen that one or not, Lively Gal, but that's a must-see film for you. It's stunning. I usually don't cry with Mann films, but I cried at the end of it. If you're into civil rights, I highly recommend ?Devil's Doorway.? It's powerful. I never think of Mann as being ?social? but he's all about social in this one. Amazing.? - <FRANK GRIMES > ?I had not seen ?Devil's Doorway? until about a year ago. I really enjoyed it. The premise is interesting and I found Taylor's part novel. The idea of living in both worlds and then be pushed out of the one that has so highly rewarded him make for a sad tale. Watching his strength in defending his land and his heritage against in an ultimately lost cause makes you respect the character. - < MOVIEMAN > ?(And the Grey Guy is right...?Devil's Doorway? is an excellent movie. Though it's not quite as ?Maven-ish?..you may really like the storyline. It really was a powerful film)?-< ROHANAKA> Thanks for the recommendation guys. I liked the movie. Robert Taylor had me riveted in this film. I searched for the soft beauty of ?Camille? or the suave handsomeness of ?Lady of the Tropics? or his rugged handsomeness in ?Westward the Women.? But there was something different about him in this film. A weight, a gravitas. Perhaps he knew this film was making an important statement. The thing that was most recognizable to me about him was that tangy twangy rich deep voice of his. We hear the Shoshone?s plight through Taylor. Forgive me for jumping around here. It?s just that I have all these thoughts barreling through my neurons at once that I want to get out before I forget. Louis Calhern?s (as Coolan) hatred is not superficial. ?You notice how sour the air gets? You can always smell ?em.? UGH!!!!!!!!!!!! His hatred goes down to the bone. It?s deep. It?s in his DNA. And its systemic as well. Coolan constantly stokes and incites hatred. His henchman Ike is the first to bite that rancid bait. He shoots at Lance emptying his bullets but not aiming to kill. And when the rounds are gone, Lance fights him. ?I think the fight scene that occurs about midway, the one in the saloon after they refuse to serve Lance a drink, is the best cowboy movie fight scene after the one in ?Shane.? The way it's shot is just fantastic, I wonder if Stevens could have been impressed by it because the two had the same uncomfortably real feel, yet highly stylized presentation (the reaction shot, especially... all those close-ups). - < MISS GODDESS > I agree with you Miss G. It was so quiet. Ahh-HA!! I just figured out what I mean about quiet. I didn?t hear those movie punch sounds that sound like clack boards hitting each other. No brea-king chairs over heads. We were up close and personal in the fight. And you?re right about the close ups of the men watching. I kept feeling like they were silently on Lance?s side. And the two men look like they were struggling in that fight...grunts/groans...like there was effort. So we have the good and decent man victimized, the evil hateful vermin of a man...and then there was Marshall Thompson. He looked like a man of reason. He played the sheepherder. I liked when Lance is bringing his herd through town and pushes the little sheep out of the way, I liked how Thompson (playing character MacDougall) came up to Lance and called him ?Cow- boy...? His reason and compromise and willingness to listen was pushed to the limit...by Coolan. "Dude, you're being used!!!!!!" I screamed in my head. He did not hear me. I enjoyed Edgar Buchanan in this movie. Strong even when put in such a bad position. ?The law says an Indian doesn?t have the rights of a dog.? Buchanan's sheriff Zeke, must Uphold the Law, even if the Law is a bad Law. And he can sort of hide behind the Law too. So we?ve got three factions all on a collision course to a perfect storm, that really could have been avoided. I s?pose I should throw in a word here for the Mann of the hour. Not yet seeing much of his oeuvre, it looks like he could direct ANY genre. I liked the shot of the people who were sitting outside of the house in the moon when Lance?s father was dying. I liked when Paula Raymond?s character walks by all the men as this dolly shot reveals they?re all getting their firearms ready. Somehow it reminded me of the dolly shot Mel Brooks used in ?Blazing Saddles? when we see all different type of movie bad guys lined up waiting to sign on to the mayhem at Rock Ridge. I liked how Mann shoots Taylor and Paula Raymond in shadow. There was a nice shot of Lance in the house after sending Orrie away, with the windows busted open and streams, columns of light and dust come through. Nice. Lance can?t win. He?s not allowed to drink at the bar. He?s not allowed to own the land, not allowed to even homestead his own land, not allowed to let others homestead his land so he can ?buy? it from them later. ?...not classed as an American citizen but the ward of the government.? As he?s being boxed in a corner, he starts to dress more and more in his native garb. He?s tried to do it his lawyer?s way except for the part about to compromise and let the sheepherders graze on his land. He?s not afraid to face up to the White Man and say ?NO!? ?What?s it going to take to teach you guys!!? (That modern colloquialism was the only time I kind of chuckled in the movie). When Coolan was named U.S. Marshall I jumped in my seat. Hell, I was even wondering if the telegram that was in his hand was authentic. (I kind of doubt it, and the dumb townfolk was ready to go along with anything Coolan told them). Young MacDougall had his doubts about Coolan's advice but he went along too. Got his hand shot up too, when goes up against Lance. I had moments of thinking: ?Lance, for the peace of things, just let ?em graze on your land until your lawyer figures something out. Lance you?re now being intractable.? But then, how much should he give in. His heart?s been hardened. The Lawyer gal, Orrie Masters, is played by Paula Raymond. She reminds me a litle of Gene Tierney. She tries to work on Lance?s behalf, but he keeps getting the short end of the stick. She falls for him, but that, of course, cannot even be acted upon. I liked the scene when Lance has her in his arms...they were so...close...to...kissing...but... Lance couldn?t. (Just like in ?The World, The Flesh and the Devil? when Inger Stevens was fairly obviously wanting Harry Belafonte, but - he - couldn?t - do - it). Yeah, put the incomplete forward pass in the hand of the minority who can?t go through with it. ("See, I?m willing, but it?s Him being ?noble? "). Aye yi yi!!! The ?cowboy / Indians? battle scene felt to me like a real war movie. It was war, wasn't it. Dynamite was thrown, sheep and horses running, dustups. I thought that was really well done. It made me imagine what Little Big Horn must've been like. (The anniversary of THAT battle was just June 25 - 26). When Orrie brings word that the cavalry is coming to get the Indians back to the reservation, she almost wins the crowd over; almost wrests the control out of Coolan?s hands. The --sheep-- men almost backed out of this. Coolan, stop? Nah. That's never gonna happen my friend. That would be like taking a bone from a dog. The fight escalates to its inevitable ending. Lance?s heart was hardened. Perhaps he?s asking his people die for his own selfish reasons. Orrie argued a good point here. The gun battle ensues, young MacDougall is killed, even our ol? ?Petticoat Junction? pal, Edgar Buchanan is killed. The Indians sneak up on Coolan?s men and kill them silently in the night (I loved those scenes). Coolan being killed (even though off camera) brought me a lot of satisfaction. I have to admit, seeing it would have meant more. But the battle waged on. Lance looks at his old military uniform...comes out to salute the cavalry officer. ?Where are the others?? ?We?re all gone.? I enjoyed ?Devil?s Doorway.? My throat was tight and burning by its end. It made an inexorable journey towards its tragic ending. And it just devastated me. It is an American tragedy. It is our tragedy because it?s still, in some form or another, going on today. There are still Coolans out there, rallying and inciting the sheep. You can breathe now Jackaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay. Now, I'm holding my breath.

I saw "DEVIL'S DOORWAY." Oh my god!

Hello Jaxxxxon...and all my fellow "Mann" watchers, male and female alike. I am leaving the house right now to head over to the Film Forum to see "THE DEVIL'S DOORWAY." (I just picked myself off the floor at the fact that filmlover actually saw LIZABETH SCOTT...in the flesh!!!) I am disciplining (and punishing) myself NOT to read the Western thread that had that lovely lively discussion until I saw the film myself. Since there's little else to read on the Board except a coupla of thread until the Mods get back to us, (I know...I know, patience...patience, I just have to deal with the Swiss cheese that my monitor looks like when I log on) this is truly a punishment for me, you have no idea. I didn't want to be influenced by all the smart insightful comments you guys are putting out there. I hoped to see the film and come up with my own thoughts, conclusions and emotions, though trust me, they won't be nearly as smart and insightful as you all are. Sooooooooo, I glanced at what you wrote below, said curses ("Drat! MORE that I can't read yet!!!") and am off to the Cinema for my latest Mannly discovery.

Thanxxx so much for recounting Lizabeth Scott's stint at the Oscar Noir program at the Academy, filmlover. I am a big big fan of hers, seen almost ALL of her films and think "...Martha Ivers" is one of the great classic noirs. I might've really been crazy and flew to the ends of the earth (L.A.) just to see Lizabeth Scott. If she came out for this, d'ya think Darcy oughta give her (another) call on TCM's behalf............

I'm lovin' the Angie photos, big hair...guacamole and all. Psst! Sue x Sue...Angie's in a clinch with John Cassavetes not Martin Landau, though.

Yes that was very touching Terrence. I also liked Burstyn's hair all white, and her hugging that little boy at the end. Whoa!!

LIZABETH SCOTT???????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I most certainly will be waiting.

"What a shame Shirley retired after MURDER, MY SWEET. Just as RKO was hitting its noir stride." - <RAY FIOLA > D'ya think Anne Shirley would have had a career in noir? She seemed like a girl next door type. Arturo...I love the actresses you named.

I love Anne Shirley. ("Vigil In the Night" and "Murder, My Sweet").

Terrence, I wholeheartedly AGREE. "Resurrection" was wonderful!!!!! "...because I'm sick to death, of trying to make you love me!" Heartwrenching.

What a foolish young girl I was. I used to watch "LAWMAN" for Peter Brown... when the silver-templed, chiselled jawed Mr. Russell was staring me right in the face all along. < Sigh! >

Hi MadHat...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL4tVLiWFuk&feature=related It's funny how with all the great stars, they got the chance to play that one great role that fits them like a glove. No doubt, that was Atticus Finch for Peck. He was wonderful. AND played different types of characters good guys and bad guys, throughout his career. Very sad he's gone. Loved his performances. (And he was gorgeous to boot...that voice!) Sigh.