CineMaven
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Posts posted by CineMaven
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I'm probably going to have to give that one another chance MM. I saw it once years ago, and not being crazy about screwball comedy, I hadn't really cared for it. It depends on Dunne's leading man too. Her with Alexander Knox?!!! Deadlier than the dead!! Give Irene a leading man a girl can sink her teeth into, and a nice shiny sparkly, spankingly crisp script and I'm there. I know Douglas has the comic chops, yet... I dunno. I'll have to give it another chance. Maybe I've matured.
I really liked Dunne with Spencer Tracy in *"A GUY NAMED JOE."*
I found them maturely sexy in that film, yet I totally believed her with young Van Johnson. I can believe Irene Dunne in almost anything. I want to.
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Good Morning Scotchie-T. You're not butting in. I can wait patiently for Grimes to talk about "...Madame de..." while rambling with others. (That's not a gauntlet or a challenge, it's a request). I'll paraphrase Sidney Greenstreet from "THE MALTESE FALCON":
"I'm a lively gal who likes to ramble with folks who like to ramble."
Cinie-T!
I love your fav list of the 30's! whoa! and I wasn't surprised by you having all of those except one. I didn't know you prized Irene Dunne so much! She's definitely one of my top fav ladies of the 30s! what's your favorite Dunne movie?
I'm as stunned as anyone. I had to make some hard decisions when I looked over my list and had to pick five. And I'm nothing if not honest and transparent here on this Messy Board. Yes, Irene Dunne is one of my top favorites:
I always go back and forth between Irene Dunne & Myrna Loy, just like I go back and forth in my mind between Bette Davis & Barbara Stanwyck, or Norma Shearer & Ann Harding. OR James Stewart & Henry Fonda. (And if you really want to know, Samuel S. Hinds & Moroni Olsen, though Sammykins comes out on top most of the time)
No in my mind (such as it is) Dunne and Loy are my Champagne/Martini Actresses. (And I have the Bourbons&Whiskey Actresses and my Scotch and Soda boys like Mitchum &Ryan). Its two actors/actresses of the same ilk with many similarities but shades of differences. So Dunne & Loy are my Champagne/Martini actresses: those cool, sophisticated gals that men like to be around b'cuz they're gorgeous and the girls poke 'em and challenge 'em in a way that doesn't emasculate them. They're beautiful and witty and effortless and...and sophisticated.
I'm so thrilled to see that TCM is airing "THIRTEEN WOMEN" on Dunne's birthday on December 20th at 9:00AM. (I recommend it to everyone). Dunne edges out Myrna Loy, for me. I go with Dunne b'cuz there's something to me just infinitessimally remote about Loy. And I find Dunne more down-to-earth. Now I'm sad to say I don't want to see every single film she's done ("Stingaree" "The Mudlark" even < gulp! > "Life With Father." (But I will see "Life With Father"). But she's done enough films that I have seen, and want to see.
My favorite Irene Dunne film? Well of course...it's "THE AWFUL TRUTH."
SUBLIME.
I like Cary Grant with Myrna...and Kate and...Doris...and Ingrid. But there's something about Cary and Irene...
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Hi Frank, Monday-Monday-Can't-Trust-That-Day, Grimes - My Five Favorites from the 1930's:
Listing them Alphabetically...the only way I can survive this assignment:
MY BALL OF FIRE.
She's no-nonsense. She's a nurse, and a faith healer and a trollop who works her way up to the top, she's a screwball heiress and a sacrificing mother. She's knows a good fighter when she sees one. And she's a sharp-shooting Annie Oakley who can ride a horse.
MY DRAMA QUEEN.
She's volcanic. And her eyes have it. She's a good girl and a gangster's moll and a man-eating trollop. She's a girl...just a girl in a diner with dreams, and a...uhmmm...."hostess" who'll crawl back from the grave to get you. She's the mad Carlotta and a Jezebel. But most of all, she is The Queen.
MY DAZZLING KNIGHT.
He is fearless. He is dashing. He's a roue and a nerdy scientist. He loves to laugh and is not afraid of appearing foolish. He'll take a pratfall or wear your robe. He'll bark out orders and you'll take 'em. The epitome of Tall, Dark and Handsome. He leaves me speechless. I can't help it, he's....< sigh! > < sigh! > < sigh! >
MAN. ALL MAN.
He will protect you. Or smack you around. He's a gambler and a pilot and a reporter, too. He'll love you and leave you. He can't stay away from you. He's a doctor and a gangster. He plummeted the t-shirt industry with one hand. He has dimples and a grin that will melt you. It's not beneath him to beg you for a kiss. He's the best butler you'll ever have. He is The King.
SIMPLY, LOVELY.
She's infectious, has the best sense of humor, and probably won't take you seriously. She's the queen of the weepies, whether on a riverboat, or as a mistress. Her cinema rival is in"Thirteen Women." She sings like a lark, and can laugh. She's the equal to any leading man and makes him a better man.
* My apologies to Kate and Crawford and Tyrone and all the rest of those 30's stalwarts! I had to pick five.
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Hello Mam'selle: "THE POSTMAN ALWAYS RINGS TWICE." Who's offering and who's the offeree?
Well Miss G., it looks like, with that anime you've attached for Grimesy, it's Lana, offering up a steamy bowl of Heat and Trouble. In much of film noir, the woman is offering up herself in exchange for a little murder; a small price to pay (a mere bag of shells) for a little Heat.
I think Lana's & Garfield's meeting in this film is The Greatest One ever in the annals of Movies. Yeah, its whole annals. (And that covers a lot of annals). It reduces the whole dating/courting process into a few short strokes. Doesn't it say it All about the relationship between men and women? She drops her hankie and holds out her hand expectantly. He defiantly makes her walk over to him. He makes her admit first that she wants him. And he'll pay for that walk, too. (I know it was lipstick but remember how society codified the dance with the "dropping of the handkerchief?" (Garfield was no gentleman...and I daresay Lana was no lady). I always wondered whether she dropped her lipstick case purposely or was that a happy (and ultimately) tragic accident.
With that said...I am walking over to you FrankGrimes. And I am asking you in earnest to start the film discussion on "The Earrings of Madame de..." (when the discussion on "Safe in Hell" safely concludes). I don't want your point/counterpoint. I want you to initiate. I mean after all, that'd be the only gentlemanly, un-Garfield-like thing to do.
My hankie, please.
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...Women who are married to sailors down through the ages know about that life, it's a lonely one, where they spend months on end, sometimes years, not seeing their husband or even knowing if he's alive. I wonder how many "Dads" came home to children that looked suspiciously unlike them.
HA That got me. Look, every woman's not like Odysseus' wife, Penelope. Just how longis the woman supposed to sit under the apple tree with anyone else but him?
What's the statute of limitations on that score?
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*How's it going, Lively Gal? -- I view it as pre-war and post-war. I'd say the pre-war films were aimed at women but the post-war films featured more films aimed at men, such as film noir, war flicks, and westerns. Those films were clearly aimed at men. The biggest male genre during the pre-war is the gangster, as far as I've seen.*
How YOU Doin' Grimesy? - I can't argue with you there. In fact, I agree.
*I find some performers are being offered up to a certain sex for consumption. Marlene was most often offered up to the male viewer more so than the female viewer. Marilyn Monroe is this. Bette Davis is offered up to women. Gary Cooper started off being offered up to women. He was the "pretty boy." He eventually became neutral and then he was offered up to men in some films. Clark Gable is someone who plays well to both genders. Spencer Tracy is usually offered up to men. Kate is usually women. John Wayne is offered up for men. Bogie is a male hero. Robert Mitchum is a male hero. Greer Garson is offered up for women.*
I see. I now see what you mean. Very good examples to make your case. I guess Tyrone Power is offered up for women as is Cary Grant. How would you categorize Myrna Loy? Is Errol Flynn like Gable, plays well for both genders? And Robert Taylor? First offered up to women, and later in the 50’s became a little more rugged so now he's offered up to the men. You have a way with words.
*I've yet to see Garbo, so I'm not sure the kind of films she starred in. You were saying you felt she was the heroine in what played as tragic romances for women. This would make Garbo a performer that is offered up for women.*
I really see what you mean.
*Many of us men say that to our women. From that point on, it depends if our behavior persists or not. Carl apologizes and then proceeds to do more of the same!*Who's sanctioning this bad behavior, the man for selling it or the woman for buying?
*Oh, I think Carl did say those things. But with me, it felt like, "Honey, I'm sorry I cheated on you, but I'm still going to keep doing it." He hasn't changed. He blows into town and then quickly blows out of town. I think he means well and he would look to provide for Gilda. It's just a woman has to decide if an absentee husband who provides her with a home and some gifts is good enough. If Gilda is looking for an actual relationship with Carl, she's most likely out of luck. He has his own mistress.*
Hmmm...it's hard to compete with the sea. Well, what with Carl running off as soon as the tide is up, and the lecherous island police chief licking his chops...I’d say that firing squad looks mighty good for Gilda.
*Very cool! So who are your top five favorites for the 30s? The reason why I ask is, for example, do you like Mickey Rooney more than Clark Gable?*
Oooh this is gonna hurt. I just coughed up my spleen at the prospect...
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*I can't wait to read the discussion that ensues on Earrings of Madame de... Sounds like you and MrGrimes found a real connection with it. I have to figure out what I missed!*
Well, if he's game...I am. You didn't care for it? Wow!
*I did like it! I just didn't love it, or rather, I felt a bit cold about one of the leads (you just know it couldn't be Boyer). I look forward to the ensuing discussion to find out what I may have missed or did not take into consideration.*
No, I know it's not Boyer. Hmmmm. You’ve made me curious also. Well, I'll leave it up to the gentleman from Pennsylvania to lead the way.
*Great list, Mave, and I am sure at one time or another I checked those three books out of the Public Library in my misspent adolescence.*
Misspent adol-- okay. Ohhhhhkay. I'll bite. What'd you do? Return some library books back late?
I like your list of ten 30's stars. I couldn't whittle mine down without causing myself a serious lobotomy.
For character actors today, I'd have to go with Paul Giamatti, Steve Buscemi and Philip Seymour Hoffman. I also think Laura Linney, Marcia Gay Harden, Frances McDormand are leading character actresses. They may not be the star of the picture; but they sure can carry it. I know...I know. They’re no Una Merkel.
*”Carry on w/ your other chat first though, folks.. I'll dive into this one w/ you when you are ready.... (I likely need to go get my hatpin sharpened first anyway)” - Rohanaka*
Aw geeez. Ro's going to sharpen up her hatpin. Tsk! They'll be nothing left of Grimesy to talk about any durned earrings. Well, it was a nice wish while it lasted. Where's Beulah. I need her to peel me a grape.
Edited by: CineMaven on Dec 4, 2011 8:44 PM...the formatting will be the death of me.
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*...Powell was class all the way, even when wearing an ice bag on his head. He's sardonic - the sadder-but-wiser man with a little poignance underlying the wit, but he has a great sense of fun. To me, he is very possibly the most comforting presence in all of the movies. He's lovely, and my absolute favorite star ever.*
WOW!! What a wonderful wonderful tribute you've given one of Hollywood's premiere stars of the 1930’s. That was lovely.
*My take on Donald Cook was that he was coming back for her, just like Maven said. That he was the one good man waiting for her, without judgment, the man who sees her for who she is inside.*
Sailor Cook did have a tiny touch and go moment initially. He was ready to dump her and head for the hills when he first found out she went "that way." I think hearing the sirens coming after her spurred him into action in the beginning. But I believed he loved her and wanted her to be with him. And would, in effect, come back for her.
*One of the things I really loved about the movie is how much the "men in chairs" made me squirm at the beginning of the picture, and how each man changed over time in my estimation. They started out as potential rapists with really gross characteristics, but all ended up respecting Gilda, and becoming more honorable men because of her. I just loved that part of the story, they did not follow the stereotype of your usual creepy lowlifes in film. One of the reasons I love Wellman is his ability to start with a stereotype (the prostitute, the scum of the earth) and turn it upside down by the end of the film. It's his greatest gift as a filmmaker I think.*
Great point you bring up here Jackaa*A*aay. I really thought she was goner in the beginning when they licked their chops at the new dish in town. But Wild Bill spent a lot of time in the middle of the film with these blokes. She was not only a woman... but she became one of them. Wellman let us get to know them.
*And me? I LOVED the ending. She was so damn strong and noble. She showed the world - she turned everyone's view of her into dust. She was stronger when she put her mind to it than any society bred woman would be...*
I'm glad you liked the ending too. I liked that she did this on her terms (as I wrote earlier). And you know what really sells it (to me)? The look on the Chief's face. Look at it again, the dude's eyes welled with tears.
*I might suggest for your first Garbo pictures Flesh and the Devil , Ninotchka , and maybe Queen Christina...*
I'm a fan of Garbo’s and those are good suggestions you give Grimesy to dip his big toe in. I still dunno though. I don't think Garbo will escape unscathed from him.
*I am definitely a 30's girl, however, I don't at all see the boards as dominated by 1930's fans. I haven't gotten into any really good conversations about thirties films in a really long time.*
Here's hoping that turns around.
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*Hollywood in the 30s and 40s, particularly the 30s seemed very egalitarian about these fringe characters. They really gave them them the lion's share of really grounded, even respected, character opportunities...I miss these people, sometimes more than stars because stars are still around, but the almost unlimited roles for character performers doesn't exist. They're still working but often "invisible" now, which is sad.*
You speak so poignantly of this genre of actor that is sorely missing... and missed and respected. Really nice what you wrote.
*That's when he showed he had a pair...*
That cracked me up! By the by, I think you expertly laid out the case for Carl in your summation to Grimesy. Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury...I give you H.M. Pulham-Goddess, Esq.
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...And A Happy Saturday Night Fever To You - *I'm known to say this board is mostly a "30s" board. I tend to be in the minority in saying I prefer the postwar-40s and 50s. I'm thinking Jean Renoir may be the one who knocks my socks off from the 30s. Maybe a gangster pic will rise up. I just find the decade to be very feminine, since that was the primary focus of the studios. Women were the moviegoers. Lots of "society" stuff.*
Hmmm...I thought all the decades were pretty well evenly represented, but that some genres more heavily than others. But I don’t know. I know with a lot of men in the war in the 40’s, women were probably the moviegoers then too. But to each his own and I respect that.
*I've become a real big fan of William Powell in the past year. I think he's brilliant. A snippy lass asked me tonight for my favorite performers of the 30s and this is what I came up with...*
Quite a respectable list from a Grimes who's not a 30's guy. Looking over your list prompted to pick three books off my shelves that I bought back in 1969 - 1973:
I went through the Index to be sure I didn't miss anyone. Here is what I've come up with (alphabetically) in terms of actors I liked from the thirties, many whose career spanned into the forties...and some fifties...and even some 1960's:
*1. Alice Faye*
*2. Aline MacMahon*
*3. Ann Dvorak*
*4. Ann Harding*
*5. Ann Sheridan*
*6. Barbara Stanwyck*
*7. Bette Davis*
*8. Boris Karloff*
*9. Carole Lombard*
*10. Cary Grant*
*11. Charles Boyer*
*12. Clark Gable*
*13. Errol Flynn*
*14. Fred Astaire*
*15. Gail Patrick*
*16. Ginger Rogers*
*17. George Brent*
*18. Greta Garbo*
*19. Hattie McDaniel*
*20. Hedy Lamarr*
*21. Henry Fonda*
*22. Humphrey Bogart*
*23. Irene Dunne*
*24. James Cagney*
*25. Jane Bryan*
*26. Jean Harlow*
*27. Joan Blondell*
*28. Joan Crawford*
*29. Katharine Hepburn*
*30. Kay Francis*
*31. Lee Tracy*
*32. Margaret Lindsay*
*33. Marlene Dietrich*
*34. Mary Astor*
*35. Myrna Loy*
*36. Olivia deHavilland*
*37. Priscilla Lane*
*38. Robert Montgomery*
*39. Rosalind Russell*
*40. Samuel S. Hinds*
*41. Spencer Tracy*
*42. Tyrone Power*
*43. Walter Huston*
*44. William Powell*
*45. Mickey Rooney*
When I watch a pre-code film, it just reminds me that people really did know the same stuff we know today. The 40's films look like they were all celibate.
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* *But what's screwy to me is that it makes it seem like every woman was a prostitute! We've got the two extremes.*Ha! Well, you know England swings like a pendulum do. We came out of the teens and early 20's with all these vestal virgins. (Pickford, Purviance, Minter... Women got the Vote, the end of the 20's came roaring and well...
Should I feel foolishly hopeful that you'd have good things to say about the romance of "...Madame de..."?
*That film cracks my top 100 of all-time. I wanted to rank it even higher than I did. It's one of the best. Max Ophuls is now in my top 20 for favorite directors, too.*
Wha'?! Oh man...this I gotta see I mean hear I mean read.
*Well, I do say that without having seen Garbo. But Marlene is who I often think of with Garbo, and Marlene has a masculine pull to her. She's for the guys more so than the women.*
Garbo and Dietrich are oft times inextricably linked. European, strong directors, getting tangled up with Love. Do you think you could explain it just a little more when you refer to this masculine / feminine pull. Are you saying more men liked Dietrich than liked Garbo?
*Those are 30s films! I don't think they handed out guns to Bette until the 40s. Actually, I'm just guessing on that.*
Good guess. I just checked out Bette on IMDB to get my facts right. She killed her first man in 1935 in Muni's "BORDERTOWN" but she started off the1940's with guns blazing and still loving the man she killed. (Yahooey!)
*That's correct. He's protecting his property. She's to lock herself in her room until her white knight rides back. Gee, thanks!*
Haha. Don't sit under the apple tree with anyone else but me. I see the Mesdames Goddess and Favell have answered that issue with you better than I.
"Highly selfish." "Real kind of men." Oooh boy. Aren't your fellow males going to hate you for revealing the secrets of what it is to be Man, to us gals? You're going to be ostracized from the Men's Club.
*Now I didn't say all men. But everyone knows many guys seek certain desires and many guys think the world of themselves and their personal pursuits. This is nothing new.*
You said it, Bub.
*I'm also bothered by his, "I should have done better, forgive me?" It almost feels like that's how he always is. It's like a child saying they are sorry without actually feeling sorry. They just know that's how they can get off the hook. It's not about feeling it, it's about saying it.*
Hmmm...sounds like Gable: "I've been a bad boy. Love me?" I probably could forgive Gable before Cook.
*But I do believe you, Jackie, and CineMaven are corect in saying the film doesn't wish for us to think of Carl as being selfish.*
Yep. But I'll give ya this, maybe they could have done just a little better job clearing that up in Carl. Maybe if he'd have once struggled with leaving and said: "Gosh honey, I don't wanna go. I can't bear to leave ya." But I liked the case Jackaa*A*aay made as well.
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I never even heard of that movie! I'll look out for it. I love the title. The kid looks scary. This isn't a "bad seed" movie is it?
No ma'am, it's not. But the kid is a very possessive son, indeed. When I think seafaring...my mind's eye thinks of Kristofferson: big man, dark pea coat, squinty eyes, graying beard and that drawl. On the range, yeah...but definitely at sea. Hmmmm yeah...
William Powell. sigh. I'm falling for him all over again with these movies this month. What a splendid run he had Thursday even into Friday morning. I watched Lawyer Man, wow!! It was terrific.
I'm recording many of them for historical purposes. I like him alright. (Not a pitter patter favorite, but I like him). I do love his voice though. I love listening to it. It's very distinct.
I can't wait to read the discussion that ensues on Earrings of Madame de... Sounds like you and MrGrimes found a real connection with it. I have to figure out what I missed!
Well, if he's game...I am. You didn't care for it? Wow!
More with you later, Grimesy.
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"Brandi" is one of my favorites and sometimes those are the best kind of movies...the ones in our minds. I always liked "The Sailor Who Fell From Grace With the Sea" with Sarah Miles and Kris Kristofferson.
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Good evening, Lively Gal -- I greatly enjoy all of our (Rambles) discussions on the board. I love it when I'm shown different sides of a film and you are easily one of the best on this board at doing this. Keep at it.
Buono Notte Signor Grimesy. Kind of you to say. My sentiments precisely. This is the place I come to to get my movie groove on.
For some reason, the films of the 30s just don't register with me nearly as much as the 40s and 50s. But I'll keep watching them, hoping I'll find some that do.
I hope one of the 30's films blows your socks off one day. I love 'em though I do like the 40's better and have been a recent convert to the 50?s a couple of years ago. But I hear ya when you say some decades resonate better with you than others.
Do you like William Powell? I'm not sure if I read you'd ever said or not. He's TCM's "Star of the Month", and most of his heydey was the 1930's.
Oh, I think it works for the kind of film it is. It really is the right ending for it. It's just not my kind of film.
I hear ya.
I liked the atmosphere and Dorothy, primarily. I also think the film epitomizes "pre-code."
Dorothy was sumthin' else. Epitomizing 'pre-code', that it does, doesn?t it? When I watch a pre-code film, it just reminds me that people really did know the same stuff we know today. The 40's films look like they were all celibate.
You have it right. The middle of the film was all about presenting the oddball characters that now make up Gilda's (Dorothy Mackaill) world. That's the "soup." Those characters didn't do much for me though, other than Leonie (Nina May McKinney) and Newcastle (Clarence Muse).
Uh huh. Well...I?m glad you liked Leonie and Newcastle. The others "hotel guests" were a scurvy lot, weren't they.
Despite that, I'm curious. I do like romance. I just don't know if I'll like Garbo's kind of romance. As you say, I feel Garbo will be more "female" and I'll be looking for a "Marlene" kind of love, which is aimed at men.
Should I feel foolishly hopeful that you'd have good things to say about the romance of "...Madame de..."? You bring up something that I never thought of on my own and that I can totally see: A "Garbo" kind of love and a "Dietrich" kind of love. I can get with that distinction. (Why didn't I think of that?!)
The word "martyr" hints at a different connotation for me.
Do you mean religious? I was using the word in regards to "cause."
No, religious didn?t come to mind. I understood you when you inferred 'cause.' Aaaaaah, the crazy inexact world of semantics. I?m sometimes trapped there.
I'd say Safe in Hell is a "Bette Davis" kind of film, at least Bette in the 40s. Although, I think Bette would kill rather than sacrifice herself. It's kind of a "I Spit on Your Grave" film.
< ( Sigh! ) > "I Spit On Your Grave." One of the great film titles, along with "Kiss The Blood Off My Hands." And you're darned tootin', Grimesy me boy, when you say Bette would rather kill than sacrifice herself! That's why I love her...and Stanwyck so. (But to be fair, Bette did sacrifice at the end of "Jezebel" and there's Stanwyck's great "Stella Dallas"). But when they have a gun in their hands...ahhhh, all's right in the world. Uhmmm, maybe I mean, all's right in my world.
But I believe she finally comes to realize Carl (Donald Cook) is only going to show up when he wants and then he'll leave when he wants, so there is no reason for her to fight through it. She was holding out hope that he would be her savior.
Hmmmm, I'd have to see the movie again to see if I pick that up. I thought he was coming back for her.
I suspect Sailor Boy will be devastated to know she died.
At first, but then he'll be off to his real love, the sea.
D'OH!!
A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do...he's got activities to conquer!!I think there is more to it than just being married. They can be married and he'll still act the same. Gilda is basically a neglected "wife" as it is. He told her to lock herself in her room and stay away from the bad men while he is free to sail the seas. She's to be a kept woman for him. So she is "safe in hell." She ends up choosing to be safe in another Hell.
I see what you?re saying. (Ha! "Neglected 'wife' as it is.") So true. But I think he told her to stay away from the (women-hungry) bad men because she'd be the only (white) woman in that godforsaken 'hotel'
The two kinds of men that are presented in the film are both highly selfish and definitely real kind of men. What's a woman to do? The man who loves her only does so when it's convenient for him. Meanwhile, the other men are seeking one thing from her.
"Highly selfish." "Real kind of men." Oooh boy. Aren't your fellow males going to hate you for revealing the secrets of what it is to be Man, to us gals? You're going to be ostracized from the Men's Club.
The film is very much pro-woman. It's a good one, too.
Yay Wild Bill!!
Men Live To Work and Women Live to Love.
I completely agree with that. Boys are often interested in activities more than anything. Girls are interested in boys. That's not to say boys are not interested in girls and girls are not interested in activities. But the strongest focus for boys is activities and for girls it's boys. I also think men talk about events and women talk about people. We're just wired differently. A lot of it is natural and some of it is cultural.
Mmmm hmmmm...I gotcha and you describe it perfectly.
There was no way she was going to allow the General to get his way with her. I like that. She had pinned her hopes on Carl. She trusted him to do right by her. He was mostly interested in himself, though.
...Something in me (the Romantic?) keeps going back; thinking Donald Cook was coming back to get her and take her back to the States to be his wife...his neglected wife. Gr-r-r!
On the face of it from my 21st century vantage point "SAFE IN HELL" looks pretty bleak. But on second thought, I think it ends triumphantly...and on her terms.
"Triumphant" is a very good word for the film. "Defiant" is another I'd choose.
Oooh...and "defiant" is a better one. I like it.
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The Naked Kiss has one of my very favorite musical numbers. It's sensational.
Then you ought to see the dance number by Anita Ekberg in "Screaming Mimi."
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Well if you're a runt, I'm the Queen of Sheba.
And I ain't no Queen of Sheba. (Maybe more like a Katzenjammer kid). You be succinct and I'll be brief. Put somethin' out there. Just like in "Field of Dreams" - If you put out...they will come.
Hmmm...that didn't come out right. :0
They calls me "Sassaaaaay."
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Holy Cow!!! On my very best day, with ALL of TCM's make-up artists working on me, I could never look like Elaine Stewart standing on that staircase, waitin' for your boy. Thanxxx soooo much Jaxxon, for the acknowledgment. I appreciate it. I'll make the next 12,000 posts really m...hey...hey...where you goin'? Come back Shane...come back little Sheba...come back Jackie......
Well...uhm...maybe there won't be 12,000.
Thanx JackaaAaay!
Whew!!! Look at those little legs run...
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I appreciate that MM'57. Thanx so much. Was thinking about you the other nite. Doggone it, I blew it and didn't get to see "PUSHOVER." Kinda hoping I could talk about it with you.
If you have a movie that you think I might be able to keep up with you about, please let me know. And again, thank you.
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WHOAAAA!!
My thanks to you for the acknowledgment Elsa. I'm VERY flattered by this presentation. This took thought.
...And that's right, Gene *better* look over her shoulder.
She stole my sunglasses!
Thanxx so much Miss G. :^0
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Thanxx so much Ro- ...and you too, Sans Fin, for the good wishes. Ha! I'm an endless fountain alrighty...but of what, is questionable.
Yes, Robert Osborne is back!!! (Yay!) And I join the throngs who are very happpppy to see him, where He belongs.
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"Great posts on SAFE IN HELL...I'm there but I'm not safe!"
- Miss GoddessHa! What? You're not safe? Well get outta there, quick, fast and in a hurry! (Thanx for the compliment...and you're absoutely correct about it being Gable & Taylor the queen and the princess shared).
I see congratulations are in order for Frank Grimes...reaching 10 (+1) K posts.
CONGRATULATIONS GRIMESEY! It's been four years of interesting posts from you, me boy. Keep bobbing and weaving and ducking and dodging those frozen ropes, long black gloves, snippy jabs and that sauerkraut. Whew! You've got your hands full trying to reach 12,000.
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Mongo, I have a question for you.
Why does Gloria Grahame always look so inviting?
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MISS GODDESS writes - Ha, you're right, that could describe several of her movies one way or another! To me, she was the queen of tragic cinema, and Vivien Leigh its princess.
Hi there Miss G. What a brilliant comparison of two fine actresses. I can't believe I never thought of them together until I read your comments.
The Eyes Are The Windows Of the Soul
Now that you've got me thinking of Garbo and Leigh, the trivia part of my brain is kicking in. They both shared a role ("ANNA KARENINA") and they shared a leading man. No wait...two leading men (that's your quiz, you tell me...tick tock! Tick tock!).
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1. Earrings of Madame de...
2. The Phenix City Story
3. The Scarlet Claw
4. Great Expectations
5. Along Came Jones
6. A Day at the Races
7. The Last Sunset
8. Me and My Gal
9. The Pearl of Death
10. The Tattered Dress
11. Safe in Hell
12. Wife vs. Secretary
13. Plymouth Adventure
If your conversation and inclination permits, I am curious about your thoughts of "The Tattered Dress" "The Last Sunset" and "The Earrings of Madame de..."
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CRIB NOTES FROM THE COUCH:
SPOILED IN HELL: HOLY MAM'SELLE!!
As Birdie Coonan might say, the only thing left was for the wolves to come nipping at her heels. My word, I don't even think Hitchock ever put his best "wronged man" characters in such a pretzeled position. And my admiration for our heroine soars as I watch her tackle life on her own terms.
Perhaps you can help me. Maybe I don't know my early 30's babes as well as I thought, but I can't think of any other actress who could have played the lead. Bette? Miriam? Kay? Stanwyck? Harlow? Carole? Joan? I don't know, there's something not quite right about them. Gladys George...Ann Dvorak...Joan Blondell? Maybe. Oh wait, I know...or do I? Glenda Farrell. But I'm being silly. Why re-cast this. I take my hat off to DOROTHY MacKAILL. She does a phenomenal job of combining vulnerability and survival. Now, she's not exactly a glamour girl like Harlow nor a tough dame like Gladys George, but Dorothy's got just enough oomph to keep the boys interested and enough moxie to shoot any man who comes up those stairs. Director William Wellman is an uncompromising s.o.b. who weaves his web around MacKaill whose circumstances spiral downward. (I love that guy!) Aaaah, those pre-codes...or maybe it's Wild Bill. No sugar coating; straight, no-chaser. He doesn't provide a sunny hopeful message for depression-era audiences. In fact, from my 21st century vantage point, "SAFE IN HELL" on the face of it looks pretty bleak.
Do you see touches of (the future) Hitchcockian twists in this tale? Call me crazy/call me silly, but I do. I see "VERTIGO" and twisted ironies. And I also see the traits of a latter day Bette Davis, who won't ask for forgiveness. Dorothy MacKaill plays GILDA CARSON, who has to take up a life of ill repute to survive. (ASIDE: I loved the brief sardonic appearance of CECIL CUNNINGHAM [Aunt Patsy in "The Awful Truth"] as the Madame who sends Gilda to her client, pre "BUtterfield 8"). Gilda accidentally kills the client...who is also an old boyfriend. Her current seafaring boyfriend (DONALD COOK) helps her lam out of there by booking her passage as a stowaway on his ship to a fictitious Carribbean island with no extradition laws. Already she's in trouble. She's not traveling like Joan Bennett in "TRADE WINDS." We barely see her face behind some slats. Man! Once on the island, she's one of two women in this island hotel. The other is played unstereotypically by Nina Mae McKinney, who becomes if not a real friend in 1930's-America, but confidante to Gilda. I wonder why Wellman cast her. Why'd he go this way? (I'm not complaining...I'm just wondering). It's a part anyone could have played for "mammy" effect since the woman would be an 'island woman.' Genius, Bill (he's as smart as King Vidor who cast her in "HALLELUJAH." All she needed was a break. (I might've longed for the prettier Theresa Harris, but Nina Mae has a tough girl veneer/sneer that fits well with the proceedings). Nina does a good job of not being (much) of a caricature. And may I extend a shout out to Clarence Muse, reliable as Old Faithful who ALWAYS infuses his role with dignity. With his voice and bearing, he can't help but do that. What might have been...
The hotel is full of the scurviest scummiest guests this side of the Bermuda Triangle. It's a veritable "can you top this??!" as these men ironically vie for her charms by revealing their crimes. One guy is worse than the next. (Yeecch!) You couldn't take a one of them home to your parents. The police chief really wants her for himself. He gives her a gun to protect herself; puts on a full court press, but Gilda wants NOTHING to do with him...and he might just be the worst of the lot. Another twisty point is the way men view "The Oldest Profession." (Nooooo...it's not dentistry!) When the seafaring boyfriend (who reminds me of Arthur Hill) finds out she's a prostitute he takes back his engagement ring and is ready to drop her like it's hot; he relents when he hears police sirens at her door. The view of the scummy hotel "guests", is that they have a healthy respect for her as being one of them. After all, she's killed a man. (YaY!) And she's sort of a good girl. (Awww!) They want her but she gently, but firmly slaps their ears back. As soon as they find out she's been a prostitute, they feel like they've been had (HUH?), suckered. (****!) Why? Because they've treated her like sort of a lady when she was really nothing but a commmon... well, it's like: "...and we let that go to waste?" They're ready to storm her Bastille. I found both those polar opposite reactions to her "profession" very interesting.
The man she accidentally kills is NOT dead. He's alive; resurrected like Madeleine Elster and he's now on the island. She's free. She has hope again. There's a spring in her step (Yay!) But he hasn't changed, and he still wants her. She hasn't changed and will still be faithful to her seafaring boyfriend. Conning his way into her hotel room (he's going to show the boys downstairs, how it's done as they sit there lined up at the bottom of the stairs), the ex-boyfriend/ client/cad/creep tries to "force" the issue but she shoots him with the gun the police chief gave her. The twist here, is that giving her that gun was the Chief's insurance policy of getting her into his jail. And once she was under his lock and key, nothing would spare her from him. Ya gotta like a man who thinks ahead. I think. Naaaaah, ya gotta think he's dirt.
Here she has a second chance at life, to go straight, to go clean. The seafaring guy will be coming back to get her and marry her. You know, make a "decent" woman of her. But now she's on trial for murder. And her scurvy suitors really root for her. How the heck did Gilda find herself in this mess? She was in the clear. She's up, she?s down and she keeps fighting for herself. The judge and jury look like they will see things her way and finally cut this girl a break.
The final irony comes when the police chief makes his intentions salaciously and explicitly clear. His action is such a low low blow, it made my blood boil. You've heard the expression: "I wouldn't go to bed with you if you were the last man on Earth." But girls, do you mean it? Do you really mean it? How much do you mean it? What would you do to really mean it?
Gilda's actions to the police chief is akin to Bette Davis telling Herbert Marshall in "THE LETTER" "...with all my heart, I STILL love the man I killed." She says something knowing it will seal her fate. She tells him that the only way he would touch her is when he puts the rope around her neck. Did you notice the Police Chief's reaction: his eyes welled up, his cigar slowly lowered in his mouth. My jaw dropped. I was a depression-era audience member. I thought to myself: "No. She'll make it. She'll pull through. She's got a fiancee waiting for her. She defended herself. Naaaah, it'll be okay, right Wild Bill?" Yes, I am brainwashed. I want that happy ending. I want the girl and boy to make it together. She bursts back into court and makes a confession that ensures her Pyrrhic Victory.
On the face of it from my 21st century vantage point "SAFE IN HELL" looks pretty bleak. But on second thought, I think it ends triumphantly...and on her terms.
*Many of us men say that to our women. From that point on, it depends if our behavior persists or not. Carl apologizes and then proceeds to do more of the same!*
[B]1939: HOLLYWOOD'S GREATEST YEAR - DAY BY DAY - as it happens!!![/B]
in Your Favorites
Posted
Oh, sweet Jane Bryan. One of my favorite actresses of the 1930's. Filmlover, you are doing a mammoth undertaking with this thread!