CineMaven

You got it kid. Look at the beginning of the movie again. Now, look at the end. We don't even know what we know when we look at it. That's also part of the genius of this film.

Stefan won't run away. He can't. He was going to a duel. And he went to the duel 'cuz he knew that he messed up...badly.

G'morning Grimesy, Jackie I like happy endings. I'm a sucker for 'em. Oh, no! Not you, too! Yeah, what can I tell ya. I have seen three of Ophuls' films ( Letter from an Unknown Woman, The Reckless Moment, Caught ), and I'm convinced he's one of the greatest of directors of woman. All three of the films I have seen have placed woman in the lead. Two of them feature the dreams of a woman and the other is her fears. All three are rather absorbing, emotionally. Very much so. We girls have a champion in Ophuls; he shows our inner emotional life since we can't be pirates or hitchhike or slay dragons. The outcome wasn't so great for Lisa or for Madame de in Ophuls' "The Earrings of Madame de..." which I add to the list of films you just mentioned. (Jackie, I'm lending you those earrings next week after your busy Thanxxgiving holiday is over and you have time to watch...or is that to squander...)? Tessa (Joan Fontaine in The Constant Nymph ) is in love with a family friend. She knows the man, personally. She likes how he treats her, how he makes her feel. There is a real connection between her and her crush. Lisa's (Joan Fontaine in Letter from an Unknown Woman ) crush is different in that she doesn't know him. She can only dream of who he is. I believe both girls do love these men the way a little girl would. They both needed to become involved in a relationship that was a two-way street for them to be emotionally fulfilled. I'm with ya. I think just a look can create a chemical reaction within. There's that chemistry metaphor again. ...She's having a relationship all by herself. That's superb! So many of us end up doing this. Thank you. And doing that does us a disservice. But is it taking if a person wants to give? That's a great question. I'd say that it's not. But what the takers don't realize is they'll get more if they give a little back to the giver. A giver (pleaser) usually wants love and appreciation. And this is why it can get messy, because takers are rarely good at love and appreciation. They usually love and appreciate themselves, above all else. So very true. I think both sides should be careful what they give and careful what they take, so that the giver is not taken advantage of. But what you mainly say...I agree with. I believe Lisa was inspiring Stefan. That's what his great turn-on was and is. So even though it may seem like he's wanting to learn more about Lisa, I believe he's still the focus. Yes. Very very yes! But to learn the skill to be able to discern that, aye...there's the rub. I came to the conclusion that Persistence is the key: * Love the man you want * Prepare yourself for him * Stick around his environs and he will eventually fall for you I believe love can actually work that way. Men loved being wanted and needed. I was being facetious with my bullet points. I think we should all work on being the best human being we can be for ourselves. Hopefully our love can find us as this whole actualized human being. She spends the night with the dashing handsome Frenchman. I think she was over the moon with the whole night. I was happy for her. She got what she wanted. "She got what she wanted." Precisely. This is similar to Caught, where the woman gets what she wanted. Is she happy with it? No she wasn't. BelGeddes picked a nutsty coo-coo control freak. Danger! Danger! Danger! But we can be so blind with who we love. Yeah. It's those danged love chemicals. They blind our good senses. Does it matter if you're loved as long as you can be with the one you love? Sensational question! You always ask the best questions. Wellllll, I don't want to brag but... That definitely happens in life and marriage. Some people marry for security or status. That's what they love. If you marry for love, then it will wreck you if the one you love doesn't love you back. Mmm hmm. Yep. He didn't return and Lisa knew, deep down, he wouldn't. She knew she was committed to him forever and he was committed to himself.... Okay. Thanx for clearing up his Milan trip. Ahhhh Stefan Stefan Stefan. That poor blind knuckleheaded squirrel. If only he had taken one small teensy tiny little step to meet her; take a chance. He might've found what what he was looking for...IF he was really looking for it. She wants to be needed by Stefan. He says he needs her, but he doesn't. He only wants her for that moment. Lisa is just another girl to him. They are all nameless to Stefan. Geee. That's so horrible. And sort of empty. Nameless... And I would have never seen Letter from an Unknown Woman as the "female Vertigo," but it really is. Yay! The way I see Stefan and Lisa is man and woman. Stefan talks about looking for his goddess. He's looking for the perfection of woman, which doesn't exist. He's to forever chase a fantasy. Conversely, Lisa has created her perfection with Stefan. She sees him as her perfect mate. She is now chasing her own fantasy, even though the person is a reality. I think Stefan is very representative of man and Lisa is very representative of woman. Whoa. Wow. I had to read that sentence a bunch of times. Like a dog chasing his own tail. Humans, we better get it together. "Those whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad." I don't want to chase my own tail. I want to keep it simple, stupid. Awww heck, with all this tailchasing, finding love is like looking for a needle in a haystack. In fact, finding the needle may in some cases be easier. I don't believe there is a perfect woman for Stefan, in reality. I believe he searches for a perfect woman through many women. This can be very "male." Lisa has her focus on just Stefan. She believes he is the perfect man. When you search for the perfect woman through many women, you don't have to commit to settling down with ONE woman. You look like you're making a concerted effort, but you're really not. A genius way to go through life. (Oh, and vice-versa - this goes for the gals too). I don't believe Stefan could ever have a deep emotional relationship. Yeah. Why should he. Hi there Jackie. - I felt sorry for them both. I hear ya. I think that what Grimesy-my-boy said was exactly right - these are universal descriptions of man and woman. The way they each think and feel, very generally speaking. I can go with that...in a very general sense. That's not to say that we don't have a little of each other in our genes... for instance, there is quite a little Stefan in me, squandering my time and talent on nothing at all, stopping to smell the roses too frequently to have ever worked out a career... but basically, I think like Lisa. I feel emotion like Lisa. I think we all share some of the other gender's traits. If anything, I felt sorrier for Stefan, for in the end he is left with nothing and a view of everything he might have had, had he been less shallow... And I think he knew that he had it and let it go. On a profound level he knew what he had. And knew what he lost. He knew it. It changed him KNOWING IT. That's why he didn't run away in the end.

"LETTER FROM AN UNKNOWN WOMAN: EYES WIDE SHUT." Ophuls is just sublime, I don't know how he does it, he makes these movies out of nothing at all - a look, a memory and a stairway. A carriage, a hat, a piano, a wasted life. MAX OPHULS: The McGyver of Filmmaking!! The scene where Lisa finally SEES Stefan, for the very first time really, late late in the movie, after years and years of looking at him, loving who she thought he was...... and she finds the cruel, callow and the heartless in him. .... she hears him, not through the filter of her love, but the plain unromantic reality.... well, I'd like to know what it was that Ophuls actually did in those scenes to make US see and feel what she sees and feels so deeply. What I believe Ophuls did to make US see, is to put us in Lisa's place, make us identify with her. If we had once gone into Stefan's study, watch him sweat blood and tears to find the right notes, to watch his frustration (maybe even..a tear?), to watch him walk among nature looking for inspiration...then maybe we'd feel something for him. But we watched Lisa go through all those years. We walked in her skin and had our emotions vested in her. We're seeing him through her eyes...wide open. It's almost sickening, knowing what she gave up, and how little he would care, should she have let it slip.... she cannot tell him. His words that have always seemed meant only for her, have no special meaning after all, she only invested them in her mind with depth and specialness. His quiet longing for a true love was really only a line, at best a petty longing for a little diversion, some champagne and a cuddle with another warm figure. OOoooh JackaaAaay, the way you laid it all out here, is chilling...again. His words that have always seemed meant only for her, have no special meaning after all, she only invested them in her mind with depth and specialness. We must be very honest with ourselves, take a mental questionnaire when we interact with people. If our needs are not truly, honestly being met...you're doing yourself a disservice to continue in the relationship. Perhaps Lisa was emotionally stuck, still seeing Stefan through those young eyes of hers from the beginning of the movie. ....she was possibly the perfect woman for him, one who might have inspired him, and helped turn him from a selfish boy to an emotionally complete man and artist. I was hoping for at least this at the end, that she would inspire him to change and play his music again. He soured on the music...or It on him. He probably had no Commitment to The Music. It, too (perhaps) was just a thing to use to get by...not put real sweat equity into. But this makes the tragedy all the more awful, that it is probably too late for Stefan to change or to go back and play the way he did. It's over for him, just as it is for Lisa, and her son. But now he has self-knowledge, and it's too terrible to contemplate. The very thing he wanted, that would make him a better man, is the very thing he tossed aside through simply being himself. It was in his nature to take and to waste - himself, and others. ...But now he has self-knowledge, and it's too terrible to contemplate. There's something Greek tragedy n what you say here Jaxx. Stefan's last or only glimmer of self-knowledge comes when he remembers. The memory of it causes him to cover his face. And in that moment, when it all came crushing down on him like an avalanche I did feel sorry for him.

*THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT...MY HEART* *RALPH MEEKER* TCM shines a spot light on this under-rated, intense and interesting actor in a myriad of performances today: *7:00 AM SHADOW IN THE SKY (1951)* A shell-shocked veteran tries to recover his sanity while living with his sister. Dir: Fred M. Wilcox Cast: Ralph Meeker, Nancy Davis, James Whitmore. BW-78 mins, TV-PG, *8:30 AM GLORY ALLEY (1952)* A boxer's drinking problem threatens his career and his love life. Dir: Raoul Walsh Cast: Ralph Meeker, Leslie Caron, Kurt Kaszner. BW-79 mins, TV-G, CC, *10:00 AM JEOPARDY (1953)* A woman desperately seeks help to prevent her trapped husband from drowning. Dir: John Sturges Cast: Barbara Stanwyck, Barry Sullivan, Ralph Meeker . BW-69 mins, TV-PG, CC, *11:15 AM NAKED SPUR, THE (1953)* A captive outlaw uses psychological tactics to prey on a bounty hunter. Dir: Anthony Mann Cast: James Stewart, Janet Leigh, Robert Ryan. C-92 mins, TV-PG, CC, *1:00 PM KISS ME DEADLY (1955)* Detective Mike Hammer fights to solve the murder of a beautiful hitchhiker with a mysterious connection to the Mob. Dir: Robert Aldrich Cast: Ralph Meeker, Albert Dekker, Paul Stewart . BW-106 mins, TV-PG, CC, Letterbox Format *3:00 PM PATHS OF GLORY (1957)* A military lawyer comes to question the status quo when he defends three men accused of cowardice. Dir: Stanley Kubrick Cast: Fred Bell, John Stein, Harold Benedict. BW-88 mins, TV-PG, CC, *4:30 PM RUN OF THE ARROW (1957)* A bitter Confederate veteran joins a Sioux tribe to keep his war against the Union going. Dir: Samuel Fuller Cast: Rod Steiger, Sarita Montiel, Brian Keith. C-86 mins, TV-PG, Letterbox Format *6:00 PM ADA (1961)* A call girl weds an easygoing politician and helps him against corrupt state officials. Dir: Daniel Mann Cast: Susan Hayward, Dean Martin, Wilfrid Hyde-White. C-108 mins, TV-G, CC, Letterbox Format

I like happy endings. I'm a sucker for 'em. I like to see the boy and girl walk off into the sunset: Rock marrying Doris as she's wheeled into the maternity ward. Eva Marie taking Cary's hand before the train goes into the tunnel. Isis saving Zita Johann from the Mummy (much to David Manners' luck). I like the pieces of the puzzle to fit comfortably. Then there are those bittersweet, endings. I enjoy those as well with their tinge of sadness: *"In A Lonely Place"* comes immediately to mind. I don't mind tragic endings either...the just plain sad ones i.e.*"Camille" "Scarlet Street" "Anna Karenina" "Dark Victory" "The Oxbow Incident"* to name a few. I'm sure you have your own favorite movie endings that speak to you. But there's another type of denouement I've recently discovered that's taken me by surprise and pulled the rug out right from under me. It fills my heart, and then drops me into the abyss. I don't know exactly wha'chacallit. The closest way I can define it, is that I've been *Ophul'ed.* It's a whole bunch of ingredients all balled up in a love story: heroes who become self-aware too late; heroines trapped by an obsession of their own making; Love that renders them helpless because its brand is stamped upon their DNA. Total Surrender. I have seen three movies in the past two months that have wiped...me...out. *"The Constant Nymph" "The Earrings of Madame de..."* and most recently, *"Letter From An Unknown Woman."* Oh make no mistake, I enjoyed the films, but they have wrecked me. (I know, I know "The Constant Nymph" was not a Max Ophuls film. But the result was just the same. Somebody's going to love somebody whose love is not returned in the same measure...and I'll be lying in a heap). I see Louis Jourdan and Joan Fontaine so differently now having seen "Letter From An Unknown Woman." I've seen Jourdan in "Gigi" "Julie " "Madame Bovary" "The Paradine Case" "The VIPs" and "The Best of Everything." He's catnip to the ladies...a French Tony Curtis in terms of his dark, dazzling, dangerous, smoldering look. (That is if you're a woman who likes men with dark, dazzling, dangerous, smoldering looks). I'll have to revisit even those movies b'cuz of the depth Jourdan brought to "...Unknown Woman." Fontaine is a bit more tricky for me (never really liking her tremulous, mousey, virginal personas). But she brought a pathos to both Tessa and Lisa that has warmed my callous ol' "I'm-Not-A-Big-Joan-Fontaine-Fan" position. She is very delicate. And I think I'm going to enjoy her movies even more now. *LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT - IT MEANT SOMETHING IN THOSE DAYS...* "...Unknown Woman" had me on a roller coaster. With just one look, Fontaine (playing *"Lisa"*) falls in love with piano virtuoso Jourdan (playing *"Stefan"*). Now again, we can go through this whole "is-she-really-in-love?" thing because she adjusts her life and prepares herself for a man who doesn't even know she exists. At least here she's a little older as Lisa than she was as Tessa, so I'm more inclined to give her the, SHE'S-IN-LOVE, more readily. So let me say, I'll take it at face value (that she's fallen in love) since movies do aspire to show us the "Exception to the Rule", not the common every day experience (as pointed out to me in an earlier discussion). Lisa has fallen in love. How long does it take to fall in love? Is there a time limit? Is 'one look' too brief? I don't think so. I like to believe the heart knows what the heart knows. Lisa knows all about Stefan. If this were the 1960's instead of the 1900's she'd be collecting Tiger Beat magazine and cutting out articles on him and having his pictures on her bedroom wall. (Okay, so I confess...I liked David Cassidy! ) *REJECTING REALITY.* When she tells a young Lieutenant who's interested in her, that she's already engaged, my jaw dropped. She was traveling down a one-way street and I didn't want to feel the pain of her self-destruction. It's so one-sided; she's having this relationship all by herself and Ophuls is going to make me walk down that one-way street with her. I want to see what happens, but I don't want to go. When Lisa and Stefan meet "officially" I really feared for her. Handsome devils like that usually break a girl's heart like stepping on a twig. He passes her and then notices her on the sidewalk as she looks like a deer caught in his high-beams. He begins to introduce himself to her, but it isn't necessary because she says she knows who he is. But I notice he doesn't ask who she is. (Ah-haaaa!) She's studied him. *"Is there anything about me you don’t know."* I had mixed emotions here, all jumbled up. At first I thought there was something the matter with him. ("Dude, why do you think she knows all about you. She's a stalker! What...what...what are you doing?!! Get outta there, man!) But again, who wouldn't be flattered? He basks in her adoration. I felt sorrier and sorrier for Lisa. She was like a cipher. And he took and took. And took. But is it taking if a person wants to give? *ALL ABOARD...LAST STOP: TRANSFORMATION.* But during their amusement park train ride through the scenic wonders of the world, I felt Stefan's transformation...or maybe it was (finally) a transference. A transference of love. He starts to question her, to listen to her, to get her to talk...to get her to talk about herself. I liken the train ride to that Waltz of love in "...Madame de...". (The dance becomes the falling...) He becomes attentive, a partner in this whole thing. Love is a give and take. In fact, if both partners give...everybody gets. I breathed easier, albeit cautiously. (There's a trick here somewhere). Now, part of it could be him wanting to use her as his Muse since she knew about his music (having hung on his piano's ev'ry note as it wafted through the courtyard of her youth). She remembered a critic's review of his music from four years ago. (But Joan's not playing Tessa as a Muse for Art, she's playing this as a woman in love and there lies the difference between Tessa and Lisa, though yes, Tessa did love Lewis). *IF MUSIC BE THE FOOD OF LOVE...* Lisa, happily and literally at his feet. *"You are a sorceress. Now I'm sure. How else could we dance this way unless we've danced together before. And yet if we had, I should have remembered."* I love his ease and earnestness with her in this second phase of the movie. I love his romance of her. Probably for the first time, and not with any other girl, has he been so earnest. (Or is that the Romantic in me?) He's so into her now, that I came to the conclusion that *P*ersistence is the key: * Love the man you want * Prepare yourself for him * Stick around his environs and he will eventually fall for you. Ya see...this is stuff Helen Gurley Brown and 'COSMO' never told me. It seems to have paid off for Lisa; she waited around long enough for him to recognize how deeply she loved him. I love the way Ophuls constructs this film. The bookends of the meat of the story make the flashback all the more devastating. We don't even know that we know what we're seeing. (Clever...veddy clever! Very Hitchcockian too). Lisa lives a lifetime in that one night with Stefan. He cares for her. She spends the night with the dashing handsome Frenchman. I think she was over the moon with the whole night. I was happy for her. She got what she wanted. There's a shot of her going into his room, where Ophuls has the camera at the same vantage point as when Lisa watched Stefan bring women into his apartment earlier in the film. Now SHE is one of the girls brought in. And she will get "the prize." Does it matter if you're loved as long as *you* can be with the one *you* love? *ABSENCE MAKES THE HEART GROW FONDER? OR...THE GETAWAY!* Perhaps someone could correct me or fill me in on Stefan's two-week trip to Milan. We've seen this scene before...cinema's typical railway goodbyes (*"Since You Went Away"* etc).; parting is palpably such sweet sorrow. *"Promise me you won't vanish,"* he implores. *"I won't be the one who vanishes,"* she replies. Did she give up on him? Did she leave him before he left her? Did she think she couldnot possibly keep him after their one night of love, that that one night could not sustain her after all the time she spent on loving him... Or was it simply that Stefan didn't come back to her after his two-week stint out of the country. It couldn't be that, he didn't look like he wanted to leave her at the railway station. (I wish NY had more romantic railway stations. Amtrak is not romantic!) His colleagues called to him several times that the train was ready to pull out. Did he just not come back to her after those two weeks? It was a little unclear to me...or is it the romantic in me simply didn't want to believe he wouldn't come back. What was clear to me was *The Ten Years Later*; the fight or flight reaction Lisa had to seeing Stefan again at the opera. She's older now, more mature, a Mom even; but that old black magic... *"Suddenly, in that moment, everything was in danger. Everything I thought was safe. Somewhere out there were your eyes. I know I couldn't escape them. It was like the first time I saw you. The years between were melting away."* So true. I lived it a couple of weeks ago...the "safe" conversation, the avoidance of lingering glances, time telescoping itself from present to past back to the reality of the moment. You don't want to reopen old wounds or stir up past feelings. And you can part thinking how you mature you've handled it; like something out of a Noel Coward play, sans martinis. Though why you're heart is still breaking is a mystery... The movie feels like it's in three parts: The young school girl who falls head over heels, a mature woman making a life for herself...settling for Security over Love. And then the chance to "go home again" to revisit, rekindle and to painfully accept. Stefan and Lisa meet again. She tries to fight it, but can't. (YaY!) And Stefan is so grateful: *"I feel you understand what I can't even say."* She loves him, risks her marriage. But when the veil is finally pulled up over our eyes, what we and she sees, is as frightening as Kevin McCarthy looking into Dana Wynter's cold dead eyes. Ophuls' story wraps itself like the coiled shell of a snail. Fontaine is fantastic starting out as a young girl who finally "sees" the man she's loved. Jourdan does a great job as the selfish lover who has all that he needs in the palm of his hands and squanders it away. I can't help think a little of *"VERTIGO."* (I'm no longer angry or disturbed by it as I was a couple of weeks ago when I saw it in the theatre. I'm back to my romantic schoolgirl notions of it). But "Vertigo" comes to mind b'cuz of obsession. When a man becomes obsessed, he wants to change the person to fit his ideal in order to love her. When a woman becomes obsessed she wants to change herself for him in order for him to love her. I haven't quite worked that out, so if it has a crackpot ring to it, please forgive me. No doubt "Letter From An Unknown Woman" is an utter tragedy for all around. The profundity of the movie only creates all these questions for me. And that's the different movie ending that I've discovered. A movie that creates all these questions for me. These two have a lot to talk about. *"If only you could have recognized what was always yours, you could have found what was never lost."* I like to believe the heart knows what the heart knows. My problem is my heart just won't believe what my mind tells me.

Baby T, let me help you out: "Here is a gold star for you, Jackie! Congratulations on your anniversary! You are always exciting to chat with!" Jackie, this is what ButterScotch has for you for your four-year anniversary here.

It's an anniversary for you of sorts, isn't it? Four years ago today you joined the TCM Message Board... CONGRATS! Here's your TCM diploma. Hang it proudly, JackaaAaay. Your wonderful reviews tell the tale!! -Tall T & T

*No mal. usted?* Pretty bien. *I've already watched it, Catty.* :-) *I'm trying to watch a film for everyone with my next group of flicks. That one was "yours." The Women is for the next group.* Ha! Wait...Uh-oh. *Well, that's always been a major problem with me.* Geez. *I have family members who are parents who have informed differently.* Well, father knows best. *I wish it was that easy! Interestingly, I've been watching a lot of Gable, of lat* Maybe you'll give us a list of the Gables you like. He should offer you great chemistry lessons. He had great chemistry with many of his leading ladies: (Harlow, Shearer, Loy, Crawford, Ava, Gracie...) *You should definitely watch it. And I didn't know Jackie had not seen yet, either. I think she'd absolutely love it. Probably more so than you. But I think you'll like it, too. The Constant Nymph is the lighter side. Letter from an Unknown Woman is the darker side.* THE ROLLER COASTER OF LOVE: When I think of Louis Jourdan I think of a preening peacock that I could while away a sunny copper-colored afternoon with in the South of France sipping Courvoisier. But after seeing this Max Ophuls' film, I must put another image in my head of Jourdan: good actor. What was making me think of *"The Story of Adele H"* turned into something devastatingly unexpected. "By the time you read this letter, I may be dead..." And that is just the beginning...

*Hola, CinemAva -* Como estas, Francisco! *No! I like watching all kinds of films. I'm glad that I watched The Constant Nymph. Your suggestion was a good one. And you should never shy away from guessing if I'd like a film or not. I enjoy the guessing, from either side of the fence.* Well...ohhhhhkay. Yes. I wonder what you'll think of Joan Fontaine in *"The Women."* Oh wait...what am I saying? You're avoiding it like the plague. Ohhhkay. I'm not suggesting it, recommending it or hinting you watch it. Don't see it! I'd feel responsible for a miserable two hours you can never get back. *For you, I'm gonna watch it. I have major doubts about me liking it, of course.* Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. Why don't you give *"THE TATTERED DRESS"* a whirl. I posted the link in the post below. It's not girlie and catty. Say, why do you like shy and fearful girls? *I like that they are scared to admit their feelings. I can relate to them.* You mean as characters in movies, right? *I like those kind of girls in reality, too. It's just difficult when I run into them because my feelings are hidden and so are theirs. I mostly like fun girls who make you feel comfortable.* That's gotta be tough, Grimesy...everybody hiding. Somebody's got to make the first move. I guess that'll be up to the fun girl who'll make you feel comfortable. *Oh, absolutely. "Madeleine" was Scottie's ideal. When you hold an ideal in your head, it makes it difficult for any others to live up to that high standard.* What? Et tu Brutus? What's with this *"Letter from an Unknown Woman"???* *You should definitely watch it. And I didn't know Jackie had not seen yet, either. I think she'd absolutely love it. Probably more so than you. But I think you'll like it, too. The Constant Nymph is the lighter side. Letter from an Unknown Woman is the darker side.* I will. I shall. *Most everyone believes it won't happen to them. I've always operated under the assumption that it will happen to me.* Oops! Yikes! *I believe you have to think of the child before the child arrives.* Yes, one should. But a little trip to the drugstore should help prevent things from...happening. *I believe that mindset is stronger than ever, today. Girls are quick to do it. A girl's need for love is so much greater today because so many parents are selfish. Girls are looking outside the home for "love."* I hear ya. *Chemistry. And I'm horrible with science!* Hmmm...why don't I believe that Monsieur Pasteur? *It's very true.* Ha! I prescribe two Gable movies and call me in the morning. We'll get that chemistry going and put you back on your two little feet before no time.

LAREDO?!! Believe it or not, that was my show as a kid! I was a faithful watcher. Loved big ol' William Smith and handsome Peter Brown and Robert Wolders.

Well we know how fiery that redhead is, so to go toe-to-toe with Jo is a joy to watch. Susan worked with that other firebrand, Bette Davis, in "Where Love Has Gone." I'd have loved to see Jo and Bette square off in something. Fireworks galore.

I'm so glad. I haven't seen it in years. Now I expect to see a couple of nice juicy write-ups of "THE TATTERED DRESS" by Monday morning. And I don't want to hear any excuses like "my cat ate my review" or "my sleep-over company hid cupcakes in my review" or any mullarkey like that. It's melodramatic courtroom fun with Jeff steely, dear Gail near the end of her life, Jack as ornery as can be and Jeanne Crain being just as gloriously supportive as she's always been to all her lucky leading men. Enjoy!

Yes, mile high homemade buttercream frosting, and I haven't decided on the sprinkles.... Oh, I love that cast, Maven! Elaine Stewart, isn't she the brunette temptress in The Bad and the Beautiful? She's naughty! I can't wait to see the film. I haven't seen it in years. Jack Carson for you, Gail Russell for Grimesy, Jeff Chandler for all the ladies. And Elaine Stewart (briefly) for the gents. Yes, that is the brunette from "The Bad and the Beautiful." You're a movie maven...and can cook too!! (That's what's missing from my repertoire!)

Thank you for the jog of memory, MovieMan. And that is what I was thinking of specifically, his screaming turning into a coughing jag. MONTY & LEE in "WILD RIVER." HEY TCM!!!! JO VAN FLEET. Some of us think she's worth a summer's day under the stars!!!! Damn good actress!" Edited by: CineMaven on Nov 18, 2011 12:29 PM Well if a politician can say it, I guess a moviemaven can too: "Oops!"

D'oh! I'll never get the cupcakes made now! What's to do? Just throw 'em in the oven and let 'em bake themselves. I'll throw another shrimp on the barbee for you, and everyone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XYyIvEpabY&feature=related Aaaaah! My job is done as CineTemptress!!!

It's not weird for you to say you like her in *"East of Eden."* ("He tried to hold me!!!" she spits out). I like Jo Van Fleet. I like her strength. I like her fury. I'm loathe to bring up Kirk to you, (I'm sorry, girl), but if memory serves me right, she was kind of partnered with him in *"Gunfight at the OK Corral."* She's betrayed him and is caught. I've never seen her afraid in movies (in general), but when Kirk tries to get her...and he's so *so* angry with her, yelling... I literally felt his blood vessels bursting, and Van Fleet's fear was palpable to me. All that heat and hate was exciting. Mercedes McCambridge. Ha!!! My girl. Loved her in *"All the King's Men."* (Watch her break a pencil in two. That was enuf for me to grant her the Oscar). She's another actress whose fury warms me, even if I'm scared of her. I'm glad I gave you a laugh. Oh, and let me tell you...that list you created of jobs you'd hate to...love to have in movies, was brilliantly categorized. I can't even touch that list. You said it all. Great job, Jack. :-)

Gosh, I KNOW I have to revisit it! I really loved it when I watched it the first time. Ophuls is so great! I also need to get Letter from an Unknown Woman. I've only seen the very beginning, with Joan lurking and then running upstairs, in one sweeping fluid motion. Oh Maxie. I'm starting to love him. His movies seem to be about Love. What is Love, what it is TO Love. I'll get you Ophul'ed, Jaxxon. Why don't you start with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY1tSfCTEeI&NR=1 And next week, I'll lend you my earrings. No fear of Kirk movies showing up in my house! I know. D'Oh!!!

Ahhh yes, "The Big Sleep(Over)." That should be fun. Has your little one decided what the itinerary will be...with your help? Are any movies on the menu? You're going to have a bunch of little Tessas and Lisas over your house. Giggling little tiny pre-women; stirring memories of being a little girl. Sounds fun...and just a little tiring with all your preparation. Your daughter'll probably want you to disappear (who wants a grown-up around). Maybe you can watch a movie yourself during their get-together. Listen, I think you need to revisit *"...Madame de...".* It'd be cheaper to mail it back than to buy it in the first place.... I hope the sleepover is a rousing success!! Just don't show 'em any Kirk Douglas movies and have that reported back to their folks. CineMaverick

{font:arial, helvetica, sans-serif} *OOOOOH! Well in that case, it makes perfect sense! Eleanor definitely plays dignity perfectly. Yet I love how she can also play softness, pride and bubbly all in different movies! Oh can we make a fav list for Eleanor pretty pretty please?!! Will you make one too?* I'm afraid my list on Ms. Parker would be very very small. I haven't really seen a lot of her films. She has a great look, and a great speaking voice. I have two favorites: *"CAGED"* and *"DETECTIVE STORY."* *Does it look like i ever ask him such things? gee wiz, i like my strawberry shortcake without him stealing half of it. heehee!* No, I guess you don't. Ha. Lesson learned. But if you're asking me...I'd say "sweet." And genuine. *Okay i'm officially blushing!* *welll i'd still say you are beautiful big T!* Oooh girl. Puhleeeeze. I thank you but hardly. Oh noooo. You don’t want to do that. Jo Van Fleet is one tough cookie. And stay away from her in "EAST OF EDEN." *i can soften anyone up! i forced a hug on frankie and now look at him? he's just hiding it. Heehee! I actually thought she was really entertaining in East of Eden! She was so believable!* Have at it girl. Jo's too scary for me in "...Eden." {font}

Cinemaven, chickadee!! Butter Baby, tee hee hee. okay i thought i knew a lot of big words, but i actually don't know what gravitas means. Can you pretty please enlighten me on that one, Cinie? Sure thing: gravitas |?gravi?t?s| ( noun ) dignity, seriousness, or solemnity of which one do i fall under? wait im afraid to ask... Well don't ask Grimesy. But if you're asking me...I'd say "sweet." And genuine. I guess that makes me the Queen Mother: no it doesn't! you aren't mean like she is. you are loverly! AND beautiful! I kinda wanna to go up to her during that movie and say, "look missy, you should try hugging people some time. maybe you wouldn't be so grumpy anymore!" heehee! Oh noooo. You don?t want to do that. Jo Van Fleet is one tough cookie. And stay away from her in "EAST OF EDEN."

Welllll Jack, Scotchie, Miss G., I guess we're Gable's Gals or... "THE KING AND FOUR QUEENS" I think Rohanaka likes Gable, so I'm including her too until she tells me differently. Now look, I don't have... the gravitas of Eleanor Parker the sexiness of Barbara Nichols the sweetness of Sara Shane or the fiery-ness of Jean Willes (who I thought was Ava when I first saw this). I guess that makes me the Queen Mother: ...And that's pretty much how I get a guy in that position.

A Hitch good evening to you, Lively Gal -- And a very very lovely Grace Kelly evening to you, Grimesy Me Boy. I like how you use pictures in your posts. It's wonderfully done. Thank you very much. Wow guys. I spotted a film on both your lists that so resonated with me on a great emotional level, but ranked so low with you two, that I felt compelled to reply to your conversation with my own thoughts and take on that film. Terrific! That's what I wish for! And I watched 'The Constant Nymph' film because you suggested it to me. Ohhhh no. Now do I feel bad. I recommended it, and you didn't care for it. :-( See, that's why I never play your "how would YOU rank I like this film?" game. I'd be no good! I completely agree. Such crushes even happen within a family. I had a crush on my mom's cousin. I can tell a young girl in my family has a crush on me. The crushes are completely one-sided. Yeah, exquisite torture, Lewis. I still wonder about Lewis' love of Tessa and their entire relationship. I feel as if Lewis is being worshiped by Tessa and Lewis is looking after her like a father would do with a daughter. His worry over her feels like a parental worry, not a spousal worry. Mmm hmmm...I get that. The hero worship. (Boyer is dashing and rather unattainable except through Music). The parental worry. I see. I'm still holding on to it developed into something more the older she got. I'm glad you let your emotions lead you. I totally lead with my heart. I've been avoiding it like the plague! But I'm actually open to watching it. I do know it's a favorite of yours. You like catty! Meow! But I like big grown up themes too. Sort of. No wait, I do. I do. I usually like Joan because I like girls who are shy and fearful and I feel she plays this the best. In this film, she's actually the opposite of what I'm used to with Joan. She's full of life and very expressive. Yes. I wonder what you'll think of Joan Fontaine in "The Women." Oh wait...what am I saying? You're avoiding it like the plague. Ohhhkay. I'm not suggesting it, recommending it or hinting you watch it. Don't see it! I'd feel responsible for a miserable two hours you can never get back. Say, why do you like shy and fearful girls? You mean as characters in movies, right? I have a question for you Grimesy...you mention that "The Constant Nymph" is 'a little girl film.' Are you using that term b'cuz the film was from the p.o.v. of the young girl or in the same sense when folks talk about "women's films" and "men's films"? It's the P.O.V. that I'm referring to. But I also believe that if you've been a little girl, you're going to connect with 'The Constant Nymph' more so than someone who hasn't been. The feelings of a girl are being presented. I see. Okay. Thanx. I'd say the comparison of the two films is very good and apt. And I would say 'Sweet Smell of Success' is male 'catty.' Since I'm a guy, I enjoy the male 'catty' to the female 'catty.' I gotcha. The idea of love is always perfect. All of your hopes and dreams are painted with all the right strokes since it is you who is doing the painting. Enter the object of your love and affection, and that changes things. They cannot be controlled. Now there are two people holding the brush. How we see a person is never how they really are. WoW. You just now made me think of Scottie Ferguson in "VERTIGO." He brushed Judy into Madeleine. He almost made it with the control thing, didn?t he? But Karmic justice took over. (Didn't John Lennon say: "Instant karma's gonna get you..." ) Yes, first love is shown and then it becomes much more complex, from then on out. There is more depth found in 'Letter from an Unknown Woman.' What? Et tu Brutus? What's with this "Letter from an Unknown Woman"[/b]??? I'm not religious, so my opinion on the topic is purely my own. Can a person be spiritual and not religious? Do you believe 'religious' and 'spiritual' are two separate entities, or mutually exclusive? My philosophy has always been, if you're going to sleep with someone outside of marriage, you better truly love that person because of the consequences. Because if a child comes about, it's no longer about you, it's about your child. Their best interests come first. And I believe a child is better off with parents who love each other. Sometimes some people don't sleep with people they truly love. (If you love 'em, that's great...that?s nice). For some people, being in love does not have to be a pre-requisite for sleeping with them. (I'm skirting and skating and slipping and sliding and minding my p's and q's around another possible hornet's nest...so let me tread very carefully). IMHO, I believe consequences can be avoided... prevented...even before the hot and the heavy begin, to ensure no child comes out of any union. And I agree, that once the child IS here...well, hey...the kid didn't ask to be here... it is better for the parents to love or at the very least, respect each other. What's wrong with today's world is that sex has become selfish and too many children are being born out of that selfishness. You want a child to be born out of love, not just sex. Yes!! They say, men use love to get sex, and women use sex to get love. But I'm not sure who "They" is. I just know "They" get quoted a lot. Don't sue me. I don't think there was any chance of another man entering her (Tessa's) life where she was in life. I don't think she "saw" any other guy. You know, you're right... Everybody has their "too much." I tend to be more bothered by the bombastic in dramas. I don't like it when music is pushing hard on me on how to feel. I hear you. Killing me softly. Chemistry. And I'm horrible with science! Hmmm...why don't I believe that Monsieur Pasteur? MOVIEMAN1957: "The Constant Nymph" was not a big deal for me. It's nice they got it out of its rights problems but it was only okay. FRANK GRIMES: Yeah, I can't see that one being to your liking. I wasn't moved by it much, either. I wanted to be. Welllll... whaddya expect; it was a woman's film. Exactly! D?OH!!!! What a catty thing to say.

THE UNIQUE, THE MARVELOUS and THE EXCEPTIONAL: and I don't mean my post. ( Ha!! ) I continue to marvel at this topsy turvyness! I really am surprised that 'The Constant Nymph' resonated so well with you when you had reservations about it, and it didn't really grab me as much even though I was hoping to love it, especially given that 'Letter From an Unknown Woman' is such a personal favorite and it has a similar theme. Ha. I can't explain it myself. Just call me "Tall T 'n T. (Topsy Turvy). Not only is the topsy turvyness between you and me, but it is also within myself. I tell ya, I was a wreck when I walked out of that movie theatre when all I wanted to do when I went into the theatre was get this movie under my belt. Maybe I'll change when I see it again, from stem to stern. I only saw the last half-hour of TCM's recent airing. But I now have a DVD of it and can give my heart another spin around the block and see if I still feel the same. I don't dislike 'The Constant Nymph' and I may come to appreciate it more over time. I do appreciate all the discussion here and at the SSO and how it has made me look at the movie from different angles. ...You may never come to like this film more. And that'll be okay. Your willingness to take other opinions into account, and revisit the film...that's a good thing. You really should, since star and theme are so similar and when you add Ophuls.... Ophuls' style is starting to interest me after seeing "The Earrings of Madame de..." and listening to your boy give that commentary (I've forgotten his name) on HOW to look at Ophuls. Ophuls farely blew my mind with his presentation. I...felt...Madame de's Love, thanx to Max's dizzying presentation. This is very often true. I guess I was thinking that 'The Constant Nymph' is presenting us with a unique event or happening, not trying to say that this is in any way the common experience. That places the story in the 'romance' territory for me, which is where the ideal fits... I hear ya. And I agree with you in what you surmise Movies do (or at least did) back then, which was not to really present what was the common everyday experience but to present the Experience of Possibility; the Romance of things. Movies' vision used to be sort of a 'our reach should exceed our grasp' kind of blanket over everything. Your entire paragraph on your position was wonderfully expressed 'G.' I cannot possibly hope to match how you wrote it, other than to say I understand what you mean...and agree with what you say. I did start off my post saying that I totally bought Tessa's & Lewis' affection for each other. And that's where I kind of wondered if Charles Boyer's character really could have been satisfied with Joan. He's French, after all! Ha! You have a point there...him being French and all. The Alexis Smith-model would surely and most likely be chosen over the little girl model. We are all corporeal carnal beings. With spiritual needs. For some, true 'dat. True 'dat. Men sublimate their desire? Yeah, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than... Touche. And yet, "man cannot live on bread alone..." Ah-ha!! Bravo!! ;-) I believe Tessa loved Lewis as much as a fourteen year old girl psychologically can love... I agree with you in the main, there. I also believe in the exceptions to that, and maybe that is what the story was concerned with, our discussion notwithstanding. Exceptions. Okay. Yes, I hear you. Exceptions, not the common every day experience. You're talking about the spirit in which things are presented: the Romance School. And I can believe that this story was about the Exception to the psychological Rule of Thumb. It was more the "It Could Happen." The, it could happen, that this 14 year old girl (an old soul) felt love; felt Love as deeply as a Woman would, even at her tender age...felt Love in the way a grown up might define being in Love. THE 'V' WORD: Or...as Oscar Levant was attributed to saying: "I knew Doris Day before she was a virgin..." And if I can butt in, and hopefully add something of value in response to you comment to Frank about the V-word... ( ) Aaaah yes, the "V" word...the hornet's nest I rustled. Or was that a land mine I just stepped on? ("HEY!! Where's the rest of me?!!") Allow me to backtrack, just a bit, to your exchange with one, Frank Grimes, Frozen Rope Recipient and Grey Man Extraordinaire, to be sure I understood the context you both were speaking in, and you'll understand what I meant by what I said. Forgive me for paraphrasing horribly...but hopefully accurately: MS. G.: Is Lewis' real love only inspired by Alexis Smith who stirred him physically? MR. G.: Could a grown man even be in love with a 14-year old girl? You two were speaking in context of the movie, and I might've mixed in my thoughts on Real Life Reality. My response was based on the reaal world, not the Romantic world of the Possibility, of the Exception (in this case of Tessa & Lewis) that you guys were talking about. My reply was (based on the real-world) a 14-year old is not psychologically equipped to handle a grown man's love even if he might (but shouldn't) be in love with her. I was not speaking of the world of the Fantastic, The Romantic when I went on to say, as a bit of an aside and an unfortunate swipe, that I was not crazy about cultures who would value Virginity as a way of not having their "performance" judged or compared to. If a person chooses to uphold the "V" word...fine. It is their choice. (I want it to be their choice). I just meant that to create a whole system of values lauding it, smacked a bit to me to me like protecting the male ego. I was not looking to castigate a woman (or man's) choice in that regard. And you aptly pointed out to me that a whole system of values lauding Virginity does not necessarily have to do with any of what I said. I'd just say that not everyone who values virginity does so because of cultural expectations or pressures. It sometimes can be a conscious choice after careful consideration of all sides of the matter. Especially in western cultures, where it's no longer valued or encouraged, but rather has become a pejorative and a source of mockery so choosing virginity for a young person is kind of rare and takes incredible courage. You're right. It's not just cultural expectations or pressures. I made a blanket state and you really laid out the other side of the coin (and all the facets of a prism) as to why virginity is chosen: (health, respect, responsibility et al). That's just to clarify that the idea of holding onto your virginity isn't always a product of backwards, irrational or unsophisticated non-thinking male chauvinists. Yes ma?am. Fair and equitable. Looking at all sides of a situation. And then the Peacemaker came riding in. (That'd be you Ro-Ro. Look out everybody!! Woohoo!! ) And you extolled the value, and gift that it is. You let it be known that "passion" and "love" are ofttimes confused and how sad it is that a lot of media browbeat kids who choose to remain virgins. ROHANAKA: But PS: Miss Maven.. having said ALL of that.. I do concede your point (if I am reading your intent correctly) about how some cultures seem to have a double standard regarding the role of men and the role of women and the value of the "v" word.. and it being used as a "prize" or reward" for a man to show his worth in society... Yes you understood my intent. Soap box ladies? Nahhhh. You?re just being fair, shedding light and giving your thoughts on the matter that I might have been a bit cavalier and off-hand about. May I really confess, Miss G., that I laughed when you wrote: "Do it soon! Do it often! Do it online!" I just thought of the marketing possibilities and I chuckled. Sorry. I had to say it because it's tough on kids who make that choice willingly and with knowledge, but are harassed and made fun of for it, often by adults as well as peer pressure. That's got to be pretty tough indeed, poor kids. Now if you think that's tough...who will speak up for that much more severely maligned group: The Celibate Adult???