CineMaven

CineMaven wrote: So...you don?t feel any different ey? Little do you know my cyber-acquaintance, that unbeknownst to you, your cinematic DNA has been changed in ways you can?t see yet. Your eyes have been opened and you?ll never see things the same way again. Molo replied: She did all that? Nah. I guess not. I was just giving Gloria more power than she actually has. CineMaven wrote: Bacall - as cool as a cucumber or a slow-moving glacier/Gloria - as volatile as a volcano spewing slow moving lava. Molo replied: I guess it depends on what you like, hot or cold. In this case, it's easy to like both. Both. Why didn't I think of that. The best of both worlds. Molo wrote: Gosh, CineMave, you really know how to pin someone against the wall, don't you? Do yo have a butterfly collection? Nope, no pulling the wings off butterflies...I was joking as well. Molo wrote: I was being at least a little facetious with the "loose ends" thing; thus, "I'm not asking too much, am I?" But don't pick my brain with red herrings. Don't just throw in hodge podge that doesn't mean anything, that's all. I don't think Ray was necessarily doing this here, though. I was speaking generally. I did pick up on your facetiousness. And I understand that filmmakers should not load a film with info that has nothing to do with the plot's proceedings. CineMaven wrote: Dix leaves. He knows he?s messed up and lost a good thing. In other words he ?F--ed up? badly. There?s nothing more he can say. All he can do is take a long walk off a short pier. Molo: How very uncharacteristic of him. He should have at least beat her up...or maybe even killed her. It would not have been out of character. But I'm not unhappy with the ending. Whew! I'm glad he held back. The only thing that made him hold back is the fact that he had feelings for her. TO LAFITTE: I sincerely hope you go to that little theatre near you and check out Bogie and Grahame under the stars. Aaaaaaah...what a setting.

There's another Doris Day thread floating around here. But I'll add my two cents to this new one. Doris Day is truly fantastic. She had a great body, a great voice, so engaging and attractive and the talent...WHEW! She could sing, dance, do comedy, do drama. So pretty and engaging. Great actress. Should be nominated for an honorary Academy Award.

Vera-Ellen: "WHITE CHRISTMAS." NEXT: TYRONE POWER (The most handsome man on the planet... well he was). Hey if Visual Feast can editorialize so can I. ;-)

I've always enjoyed this film. DeHavilland, salt of the earth. Bette wild and manic. She's such a baaad girl. Even kind of agrees to consummate the somewhat incestuous relationship with Uncle Coburn. One of the few times seeing a Black man talking normal and not lookin' all bug-eyed. This is Bette's movie all the way. Say did you notice that it's the same Ernest Anderson who sells ice cream to Baby Jane Hudson in "WHATEVER HAPPENED TO BABY JANE?" Check that out. Don't tell me Bette didn't have anything to do with that casting. Great fun mellerdrama.

CINEMAVEN wrote: "...wunnerful you sharing your first real experience of Gloria Grahame with the board. Like a virgin, touched for the very first time..." LAFITTE wrote: "Haha, I almost used that word (humorously, of course) but I've never been comfortable with it...a word for the female lexicon only, thank you very much. But since you brought it up, I must tell you that now having had Gloria (If I may so put it) for the first time, I don't feel any different..." CINEMAVEN writes: When I said 'wunnerful' I was actually trying to channel the late great champagne king: Lawrence Welk. So...you don?t feel any different ey? Little do you know my cyber-acquaintance, that unbeknownst to you, your cinematic DNA has been changed in ways you can?t see yet. Your eyes have been opened and you?ll never see things the same way again. CINEMAVEN wrote: "When I say 'she?ll serve as an alibi for Bogie,' I didn?t mean to infer there was some sort of cover-up." LAFITTE wrote: "And for the record, nor did I think you made that inference. But you made me think back and I was unsure for a moment. It's important to me that she doesn't lie. I like to think of her as having nothing in particular up her sleeve... MOLO: "You both have already discussed this but I think it's worth pointing out that Laurel does believe he is innocent because she had been a witness to Mildred leaving alone that night. By the way I love the way Gloria says Laurel's line: 'I believe he was looking at me.'" Your recollection is correct, Lafitte and Molo concurs. Gloria did not lie. She was straight-forward and above board and interested in Bogart. If she hadn?t told the police this, I think he might?ve been a goner. CINEMAVEN wrote: "Do you think Bacall really would have overplayed it?" LAFITTE wrote: "Maybe not, but I would worry that she might assume that "purse your lips and blow" stance, sultry and slow moving and maybe a bit affected...whereas Gloria plays all that surprisely straight and regular, because, as you point out, the "energy" was already there and she could just be herself, so to speak." In comparing the two ladies I sometime think of Bacall as cool as a cucumber or a slow-moving glacier...and Gloria as volatile as a volcano spewing slow moving lava. LAFITTE wrote: "But what is the significance of having been in two 'B' pictures? Does knowing that help us understand her or the movie as a whole? I always think that such details must mean something, otherwise why put it in there? I hate loose ends. I want every detail to have meaning. It's all got to come together and be brilliant. I'm not asking for much, am I?" IMO, Gloria?s Laurel appearing in 'B' pictures doesn?t tell us any more about her. I think it merely shows that it?s all in the family. They?re all in the same industry. It?s a closed world. Re: loose ends...sometimes movies take their secrets to the grave and don?t give up everything in a nice neat little bow. Do you want much? Naaaaaaaaaaah!!! Since you already have the director?s blood, sweat and tears you now want his arm and a leg. At least you?re leaving the director his family jewels. You are aren?t you? Uh, aren?t you??? LAFITTE wrote: "What could she get from Martha that would advance her position in life. I'm not challenging you here, au contraire, I feel insecure about the masseuse, like maybe I'm being naive." I?m not above being challenged; I must be able to support my position, so here goes: What could she get from Martha, you ask??Nothing that might advance her position, but she?d be using Martha as a protector...a strong arm ?man.? LAFITTE wrote: "Elsewhere, CineMaven, you say, 'After all, what was left of her career was Martha the masseuse' and I'm not sure what you mean by that. Maybe there is something about the masseuse that I'm missing." When Bogie goes to visit to get an answer from Gloria about whether they become an item, he has interrupted her phone call to Martha. When Bogie tentatively asks her who was on the phone, she replies, ?The only thing left of my movie career.? LAFITTE wrote: "No, there's probably something more than meets the eye with this Dix guy. I'm not sure he adds up. I wish he was more clear cut." Dix leaves. He knows he?s messed up and lost a good thing. In other words he ?F--ed up? badly. There?s nothing more he can say. All he can do is take a long walk off a short pier. LAFITTE wrote: "Thanks for the pic, btw, thanks to you too, for your nice remarks. And thanks for the recommendation, (Crossfire), I wouldn't have known where to meet Gloria for the next rendezvous." I?m sure you?re a gentleman who doesn?t kiss and tell, but I?m a voyeur myself. Please let us know about your rendezvous with Gloria when you see her in ?Crossfire.? MOLO wrote: "Alright you two. You're setting the bar too high for feeble ol' Molo so I hope you don't mind if I slip under it." There is nothing feeble about your posts and views, so don?t slip under...step right over that bar, siddown and chat with us about Gloria. MOLO wrote: "CineMaven I think that is a good assessment of Gloria's characterization of Laurel. I was thinking she may be a little bit on defense as well in the beginning. She was coming out of a relationship after all..." I don?t know if Gloria was being defensive as she was setting the boundaries. She?s a B actress (her character); she?s been around the block a couple of times carrying herself as a lady no doubt, but she?s probably had experience with Hollywood wolves. By the by, did you mean to say that Laurel was wary of Dix as opposed to weary?? MOLO wrote: "Do you think Dix would have tried to put the moves on Mildred if he hadn't been distracted by Laurel?" Nope, I don?t think Dix would have made the moves on Mildred. He was tired, he just agreed to do this adaptation and needed to take the verbal crib notes from the hatcheck girl. Besides, a man who could say, ?I?ve been looking for someone for a long time. I didn?t know her name or where she lived.l I?d never seen her before. But a girl was killed and because of that I found what I?d been looking for. Now I know your name, where you live, how you look,? is totally focused on one girl. But you know on second thought Molo, imagine if that movie was made today...he might?ve had Mildred as a tasty appetizer and then sent her packing in a cab. Then he would have a five course meal savoring every morsel of Gloria. ("Please ma?am, may I have some more??) CINEMAVEN wrote: "She?s summoned as well and here we see her characterization played out for the first time. She'll serve as an alibi for Bogie. She?s every bit as Bacall as Bacall but without the husky sultriness. By this I mean she serves and volleys her quips with Bogie with aplomb. She?s laid back--unimpressed with celebrityhood...It seems to me the interrogation serves as a bit of foreplay for Bogie and Grahame. LAFITTE wrote: "One of the strengths of this picture, the sharp dialogue, especially between these two in the early going." MOLO wrote: "I very much agree with you both here. The banter is clever and sharp. Even before Laurel arrives Dix plays a nice game of verbal volleyball with the detective...She's as clever as he is and he likes it." Nicely said Molo. I?m a woman who likes to write to a man who likes to write. And you do it well. MOLO wrote: "I've talked with people who can't get past Dixon Steele's character. It's not a pretty one." You?re right again Molo, Dix ain?t easy. But I don?t think he?s supposed to be. He?s not all black or all white. There?s a lot of crazy gray in Dixon Steele. But even if he does mean things...he always comes around in the end and asks for forgiveness; the typical m.o. of an abusive personality. MOLO wrote: "I have more to say about Dixon Steele and Bogart's portrayal. It is perhaps my favorite performance of his and that says a lot! This film is a beautiful story of flawed and tragic characters. There is no happy ending for Laurel and certainly not for Dix. Sooooooooo right on!! It?s good when movies explore imperfect people; something quite rare of classic movies to explore. MOLO wrote: "I want to say more and hopefully I can later this evening. (It's already early morning) I must get to sleep but I wanted to start because this has been rolling around in my head now for awhile and I haven't been able to get it out. I want to comment further on what you both have written so well." Who the heck needs sleep? You wouldn?t sleep if Gloria were in the room there with you, wouldja?? MOLO wrote: "You two try and save a few scraps for me and Frank. Tobitz, I haven't forgotten your initial post. I want to touch on that too." Molo, there are no scraps here. There?s enough Gloria to go around. (Just don?t ?rush? her). I very much look forward to reading any more you have to offer. I?m sure it?ll be cherce. CINEMAVEN wrote: "I did kind of chuckle over that old movie convention of hearing voice-overs in bed." MOLO wrote: "What do you mean? Isn't this normal? ....no?....oh.....alright then........uh oh!" Could you use these? CINEMAVEN wrote: "Gloria gets her second warning from her masseuse, Martha, a big brawny blonde with hair pulled back and a soothing voice; she brings a certain...prison matron image to mind. You know the type--the one that gets all the cute prison girls to do her ?favors.? And she?s got Gloria on the table. I dunno. I know what they?re talking about, but it?s the subtext I?m listening to." MOLO wrote: "Alright I must watch this scene yet again. Just for research. Like Laffite, I tended to see the scene with out the implied nuance but still a good scene visually nonetheless. Interesting that you brought up Hope Emerson. Thoughts of her in 'Caged' are now popping into my head." Alright, maybe I was reaching with those thoughts...but I really don't think so. Is it scary having Hope Emerson in your head? MOLO wrote: "Yes it does. I never really suspected Dix had killed Mildred. It just didn't make sense to me based on those early scenes, but I did suspect that he was capable of murder." I agree. I know Bogie didn't kill Mildred, but I wasn't so sure that anyone else in his sphere would escape. MOLO wrote: "That last sentence rings very true. I think Laurel does the best thing here. She tells Dix what he wants to hear, while planing her escape. She is tortured because she loves Dix but she's no fool. She knows she has to escape from him." Yes yes yes...ladies don't be a hero. Say what you can while you're planning your escape. MOLO wrote: "We now come to, as you say the "engagement party from hell." We see Dix's rage build again. He is helpless. He is losing Laurel, his last chance, his saviour? At the apartment, Laurel can no longer dissuade his anger." "His last chance, his saviour? Sad but true. Nicely put Molo. I agree. MOLO wrote: "We have finally reached the awful inevitable end of Dix and Laurel. He has nearly destroyed what he loves, all he has. He recoils from it. The realization sets in for him. He is now even more damaged and he has irrevocably damaged Laurel as well." You've said a mouthful there. And I wholeheartedly agree. I'm not so sure she's irrevocably damaged; a cat has nine lives. It'll be a little while but she'll find another man. But it'll take time. As for Dix, ohhhh, he's a goner. I wouldn't want to be his agent. MOLO wrote: "She does so much in so many films with just her presence and offhanded sexuallity but 'In A lonely Place' really challenges her to new levels." I love the appreciation you have for Gloria. We all do. It was said before, right: she does so much with so little and sometimes with so little time. I looked forward to what you'd write Molo. I wasn't disappointed. You know...to be in love with someone who you can't trust must be a very lonely place, indeed. Message was edited by: CineMaven...oh corrections all over the place

Great poster. Yeah...that's Gloria alright...in all her glory. Folks, have you noticed on the Elvis Mitchell interviews, the opening credits to his show has voices speaking lines from "In A Lonely Place"??? The lines are spoken by Martha, the masseuse and an exchange between Bogie's Dix and Mildred's boyfriend Kessler. Listen. You'll be surprised.

Wait a minute...I see that incorrigibility is an act with you, SCSU. I just am reminded of something nice you said about Gloria Grahame. This is the wrong thread for it, but I don't want to muck up "the complete package" thread with our juvenile banter. This is what you said about Gloria elsewhere: "Well, as long as you asked, I'd sell my soul (if I had one) for a night with her. When I saw her in The Bad and the Beautiful, I wanted to tell Dick Powell to get lost so I could move in." You may just have a soul.

Good evening Lafitte (or g'morn if you decide to read this then). Here are my musings right back at'cha: And she give him the once over?twice, as well. I watched this film just two days ago, not only my first glimpse of the movie but of Gloria Grahame. Excepting Oklahoma, I had never seen one of her films. So imagine that her entrance in this film has a special significance for me, i.e., she is actually entering my life, so to speak) Having her cut between the two is a little much but it?s supposed to be, we get only glimpse (that's all we need) of the smile as she says, ?Excuse me,? and then we get to see her walk to the end of the pathway, mount the stairs and then with a certain subtle flair toss a flirtatious to Dix as she goes to her apartment. And very nicely done. Gosh, I like her already 'Course who can't like a girl who sings, "I'm just a girl who can't say no." * This is wunnerful wunnerful you sharing your first real experience of Gloria Grahame with the board. Like a virgin...touched for the very first time, to quote Madonna. ?Oklahoma? notwithstanding, "...Place" and ?The Big Heat? and ?The Bad and The Beautiful? and ?Crossfire? will be great for you to screen. And you?ve described her entrance very vividly. A lot of things are a little much to our 21st century eyes; just try to see them with the mind of a movie-goer from long ago.Incidental casting decisions can be interesting. Martha Stewart has a pleasant look but there is something about her face that prevents her from being really pretty. Important perhaps, because we don?t Bogie to forget his purpose for having her over. And we don?t want the audience to be distracted by her beauty. Later, of course, she is merely a statistic and it doesn?t matter what she looks like. You?re absolutely right about the distraction. I think there?s many a Hollywood casting decision where they don?t want the star out-shined becuz of someone else?s beauty. I believe there?s a story about Frances Dee not being cast in the Melanie Hamilton role (ultimately played by Olivia DeHavilland) becuz of her beauty. But I tell ya, Martha had personality. I?m trying to remember if she lied to the police. My recollection is that she did not. She is his alibi but I think she told the truth. I think this is an important detail as to her character, etc. Can someone clear that up for me? I can clear that up Lafitte, until others join in. When I say ?she?ll serve as an alibi for Bogie,? I didn?t mean to infer there was some sort of cover-up. She did indeed tell the truth and said she saw Mildred leave Bogie?s apartment alone, thus serving as an alibi for Bogie. She?s every bit as Bacall as Bacall but without the husky sultriness. By this I mean she serves and volleys her quips with Bogie with aplomb. Bacall may have overplayed it. I like Gloria?s measured performance. One of the strengths of this picture, the sharp dialogue, especially between these two in the early going. Do you think Bacall really would have overplayed it? I love her, but sometimes she seems positively somnambulistic. ?Measured performance? is so well-put. Gloria never extended a lot of energy she didn?t have to. ...But is there a possibility, at least at the time, that she is, as Dix?s agent suggests later, interested in not only the face but also a part? And is this indicated by her having been in a couple of B pictures and obviously wants something better. If true, it seems to fall by the wayside when she actually does fall in love with him. What a good point that I didn?t think of. Maybe she was trying to get in there good with Bogie to get a movie part. Never thought of that. After all, what was left of her career was Martha the masseuse. But naaaah. She was a straightforward girl and might?ve told him early on, "can you hook me up with a role?" I like to think she wouldn't resort to such subterfuge. Glad you said that. Definitely something kittenish about her. You can almost hear her purring. She?s a kitten with a whip in some of her movies. She?s got an edge and a bite and a soft vulnerability about her. Can?t wait till you discover more of her movies. You?ll see. Let?s just say the subtext between the two women seems awfully charged and don't think Ray didn?t know what he was doing here, either! (Your thoughts?) So what do you think he was doing? I almost wish I could go back and view that scene again, but I don?t see there was anything going on sexually. As you go on to say, ?The dialogue serves to have Martha warn Gloria about Bogie?, and it served to have this warning come from somebody tough, like this particular masseuse. Unless one might say that Gloria in this scene occupies an almost helpless and subservient position while this huge woman with a tough voice is towering over her, almost making the advice all the more powerful. That?s a good take on it, but not as much fun as my thoughts. I don?t say that there was anything explicitly sexual going on, but I get the feeling that Laurel might not be above using her ?charms? to get what she wants from men...or women. Can?t say I?ve ever seen a scene like this before. Oh wait, I think Hope Emerson was giving Richard Conte a massage in a noir flick. Before I speak more on that, let me see if others weigh in on this. Well, at least doubts (and suspicions) being planted are true, which can?t be said for poor Desdemona. And later Gloria will see for herself and have personal understanding of these suspicions, something that Desdemona will never have. Exactly. I couldn?t have said it better myself. Dammit I wish I had... Bogart will ultimately become Othello before this thriller is done. Bogart is not lied to and have untruths planted in his head like Othello. His angst is not really known except that comes from within. I don?t really know what Bogie?s problem is, unless it is frustration from failure as a screenwriter, or simply being victimized by inner demons or personal problems that we don?t know about. Or are we supposed to believe that there are just people like that, who lose their temper to the extreme and almost kill people? What does he mean when he says that any sacrifice is justified to attain immortality? Does he have some kind of exaggerated or overweening ambition? He is dark and complicated whereas Gloria is relatively straightforward in that her actions and reactions are reasonable and based on reality. Who wouldn?t be afraid, for instance? But Bogie is something else again. He can [be] very pleasant....His temper tantrums and the way he was rushing her to get married, the desperation, is so over the top that there is even the suggestion of mental illness. Dr. Freud or Karl Jung couldn?t have analyzed it better themselves. Apparently Bogie was an extremely insecure man and the insecurity manifested itself in violence. It all came from within, as you say. Mental illness? Give that man a see-gar!! An understatement, but a nice recap. Nothing is right, even down to Bogie trying to prepare grapefruit. Reading your little recap of the scene made me think that maybe Bogie?s general view of life is that of screenplay and not of reality. He doesn't even notice how stressed she is. Right you are. What he straightens out should remain bent and what is bent and twisted and sick should be straightened out. They finally get a phone call exonerating Bogie but it is too late, Bogie knows it and Gloria knows it, as she rubs her neck: "Yesterday, this would have meant so much to us. Now, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter at all." But would have it matter anyway? Even if ?yesterday? had happened they would have been married but we have to believe that it would be something else next week. We have learned enough about him to know that the marriage won?t change him. I don't think the exoneration would change anything either, would it? To me, no. It's not as if Dix was introduced to us as a regular guy before the murder accusation. When he goes after the guy in the bar, the old girlfriend at the other table says, "There goes Dix again," so he's always been like this. Again, you?ve described this perfectly. Nothing would have mattered. His sickness was within. The first time Gloria would have burned Bogie?s toast, the manic disorder would have reared its ugly head. == Hi Cinemaven, I loved your post. Just reacting to it made me want to see certain scenes again but unfortunately I sent it back to netF. I generally am not real confident of my own perceptions on a single viewing of a movie so there may be some off-center comments above but I was moved to respond because at least I've seen this one recently. I don't think I have the appreciation for this movie that you do, but I did like it. In fact, I marvel at your sensitivity to detail, for instance, the lovey-dovey scene at the piano bar. You capture that nicely. What a jeweler's eye you have for nuance! You see so much more than I do. I mentioned above that this is my very first GG movie, that must sound strange to you gloria mavens. I take it that this is not one of her steamier roles, or is it? I'm lucky that I have the rest of her movies to see now. If you have made some off-center remarks someone will point ?em out. But to me they were cogent, on target and well written. My appreciation of this movie is due in large part to Gloria Grahame?s reaction to the wacky Bogart. If he were missing some strawberries in this, I wouldn?t have been surprised. You are very complimentary to me and my writing and perception. I?m flattered and I thank you much. Now if I might suggest your next Gloria Grahame movie, it would be ?Crossfire.? Then you can read the posted for that good solid movie. She gives a heartfelt performance in it and has more of the 40?s look with long blonde hair cascading past her shoulders and the hurt vulnerability of a lost kitten...but with hard edged oomph. Thank you for responding. I?m glad you enjoyed the movie.

YOU are incorrigible. Good night to you good sir!!

Oy vey, you again. Say, do you have any (good) thoughts on Gloria Grahame?

Thanxx for the suggestion. The only way for me to look at DVDs right now is through my laptop. Guess that's what's holding me back.

Which Ben d'ya mean?? I'm liking Mankiewicz.

Okay. BTW, X marks the spot where I put Ellen Drew's picture. Right now...drooling at my botched up taping of "The Razor's Edge." Tyrone Power has just talked to the old man and is ready head back into civilization. He looks so scruffy and unshaven and gooooooooooooooood. I bring him up becuz he made some movies withLinda Darnell.

Nope. But I wish I had a V8...

D'ya see a simlarity between these three: Those pix you posted of Darnell are wonderful.

MISS GODDESS: "Lana became "icier" in demeanor and appearance as she matured." Icier. Perfectly put.

Thank you Raining Violets101. I feel like a young sprite. . . . . . ...and sometimes like a Pepsi. ;-)

Lana was interesting to me. Out of all the goddesses (Ava & Rita are the other two in my opinion) I felt as she got older her facial features really changed. (No not the face lift). She really looked different in the 40's than in the 50's than in the 60's; perhaps its the loss of baby fat...but something. I don't mean any of this in a bad way. I heart Lana. In fact I just asked my father (born in 1927) out of the three which one was really liked by folks, by boys back then. He said LANA. And he thought about it. Yep, Lana.

ILRM, please believe me I would not at all be insulting to you. No no no. Others, yep. But that was not at all my intent. D'ya think you'd be able to check out "The Children's Hour" any time soon and let me know what you think of the film? Audrey and Shirley are apples and oranges. All of the celebrities that we compare to each other is an unfair comparison. To compare Valentino to Cooper to Tyrone Power to Hedy Lamarr... etc. Please accept my apology for even putting that thought in your head. I'm sorry.

Easy...easy. I thought we were having a friendly game of one-upsmanship??

Frank, Molo...I'm just glad I got it done. I look forward to hearing from, but there's no rush. Maybe if you could write something up in the next ten seconds, then I'll run out get you a wedding ring, then look for a foreclosed house and maybe a little car. Oooh...that sounds familiar. No rush boys. Just happy I got her out there and put the thread on top. At least for now. SCSU is lurking about and he's about to one-up-me at any moment.

I'd say:

That she is. ILRM, try and see "The Children's Hour" and tell us what you think of it. Message was edited by: CineMaven -- As a movie, not a beauty contest.

See Molo. Now we're in dutch. I'll meet you after class at three o'clock! (...At the Gloria Grahame thread.)

Nah, he's just a kid. We're not sending kids to war.