CineMaven

Oh. Okay.

You have very much misunderstood my post regarding Olivia de Havilland. I am a fan of hers and becoming a bigger one. And I am aware of the history of her fighting the studios against their dra- conian contracts and suspensions. ...And that she won.

Ahhh! I agree... and deHavilland made few wrong choices in her career - she goes from the swooningly beautiful Errol Flynn movies into Hold Back the Dawn, In This Our Life, The Snake Pit (where does this movie suddenly come from?!), The Heiress, and My Cousin Rachel. She transitioned perfectly into a mature womanly actress. She did, didn't she. Luckier than a lot of her contemporaries...but maybe that's b'cuz her screen persona didn't start off with the "IT" "OOOMPH" "SWEATER GIRL" "SARONG" bombshell handle or Actress with a hard capital "A" like Katharine Hepburn. I think of Kate Winslet the same way and having seen "The Black Swan" (have you seen that one, yet?) I think Natalie Portman is going on a great career path...even with her new one with Ashton Kutcher (though I'm curious to see if she can play a regular girl and do light comedy). ...My good friend Bob, who knows and speaks more eloquently about film from his pinkie than I have in the whole of my big fat Maven's head, has always told me that playing the "good girl" is the most challenging role an actress can choose. That is the truth. I want to know how she realized so early on that these women had some fasci-nation too. I never saw "the good girl" as anything more than a hurdle to be got over in a career. I don't know. Smart girl...good people around her. She found the kernel, the meat in many of those roles even in a film with the heat of a Paulette Goddard breathing down Boyer's neck. Some never really overcome that "good girl" hurdle. (Cathy O'Donnell). But somebody's gotta be good. Is Gail Russell in that category? (I didn't mean to get so far afield of Sir Ralph). And I love how deHavilland uses her voice, when she lets it drop to a deeper register. (E.g.: "He came back with the same lies...") The way she says that line - her voice is soo hard, and flat on the word 'lies'. It's an ugly voice - in complete contrast with her new more alluring look. You're right...flat...no affect. I wonder how many women in the 19th century were created by the way men treated them. I've got to look up the nominees for Best Actress the year Olivia won. And I loved her b**ch-slapping Bette in "Hush, Hush Sweet Charlotte." Aww cripes. There I go, bringing things down to the lowest common denominator again. :-( VOILA!! Doctor Father Sloper's job is done. That might not have been his intention...but that sure was the result; isn't the road to Hell paved with good intentions. Now he has a daughter who stays a virgin...untouched and now...not allowing herself TO be loved. It's probably one of the saddest endings I've ever seen for a heroine. (Empowering maybe, but sad nonetheless). For me...it's akin to Muni's fate and last line in "I WAS A FUGITIVE OF A CHAIN GANG" No peace...ever. It always makes me feel conflicted - that ending. I want her to take that empowerment and run with it - but she still is kind of obtuse isn't she? She has gone all the way from inncence to harridan, with no stops in between. It's a testament to the movie that I care what happens "after". I hear ya Jackaaaaaaaay. Hasn't Catherine learned anything?? It's good you care what happens after. In fact, go over to the Oasis and re-read our scenarios of "what happens after..." Ha! Have you read the book on Wyler? I am thinking of getting it. No I haven't. I haven't read a book since "Dick and Jane." (And I tell you...Spot is NO Petey). Seriously, I haven't read a book in a long long time though in my heyday I bought a lot of film books that are probably out of print now. (Maybe I'll head over to the Strand to see what's what but (and I promise to ask this one last question and let you and the serious writers get back to your arm-y guy Sir Ralph)...but can you (or anyone else) recommend some good film bios or film books I should get for my library?? Thanks. And thanks for your indulgence to my off-topic tangent. Edited by: CineMaven on Jan 9, 2011 10:50 AM - Oops! Re the spelling of Ms. de Havilland's name.

G'Morning Jackaaaaaaaaaay and all you fans of TCM on this thread. I think what I was trying to say is seeing DeHavilland later in her (40's) career made me forget about her career in the 30's. I agree with you about DeHavilland's performance in "Gone With the Wind." And next time I see the film, I must put aside Scarlett and Rhett and have a different experience by watching it just for her. When I saw the movie the first time I was sixteen years old and when we went on a class trip. And the close-up of Gable blinded me throughout the movie...but I had just enuf cells left to have the wherewithal to be a basket case when Miss Mellie died. (Whew! I bought the program and the soundtrack and the book, which I've never read). My good friend Bob, who knows and speaks more eloquently about film from his pinkie than I have in the whole of my big fat Maven's head, has always told me that playing the "good girl" is the most challenging role an actress can choose. (He also told me that "The Shop Around the Corner" was a film I should see too). DeHavilland probably comes at things from the opposite end of the spectrum of those ladies she's been paired up with (Leigh, Davis). They may get the showier roles...but DeHavilland simply sim- mers to a boil. Looking at some of the YouTube tributes to her have contributed to the opening of my eyes to her. I actually found her sexy in "MY COUSIN RACHEL" doing the push-pull thing with poor young (self-tortured) Richard Burton (who cut quite a figure in those pants). And I love how DeHavilland uses her voice, when she lets it drop to a deeper register. (E.g.: "He came back with the same lies...") I think we oughta take up a collection to buy Robert Osborne a ticket to go to Paris and interview one of the last great stars still left from Hollywood's Golden Age. It'd be pity if TCM doesn't get her...and a pity if she doesn't let 'em. Don't forget...you heard here! "In learning to see Morris, she also is forced to see herself and her father in a new way too - I can feel her self-hatred come rolling off the screen. Now the question is, is how she sees her- self at the end a true picture? Not really - and her view of humanity is completely shattered - she is left a suspicious and bitter woman." VOILA!! Doctor Father Sloper's job is done. That might not have been his intention...but that sure was the result; isn't the road to Hell paved with good intentions? Now he is assured to have a daughter who stays a virgin...untouched and even...not allowing herself TO be loved. Daddy can remain the girl's first love whether he is an absent father or not. It's probably one of the saddest endings I've ever seen for a heroine. (Empowering maybe, but sad nonetheless). For me...it's akin to Muni's fate and last line in "I WAS A FUGITIVE OF A CHAIN GANG" No peace...ever. "Of course you're caps are perfect, showing Catherine's emotional state, her ups and downs, so to speak. I never thought of this movie in those terms before - Wyler is one of the few di- rectors who uses that plane..." FrankGrimes' screen caps are always good in making his point. And I wish I had the time to gushingly wax on about Wyler over in your other great thread: DIRECTORS ON TCM. If I had to choose a director's career I'd covet as a filmmaker myself...it would be Wyler. Oh make no mistake, Hitchcock is my favorite director. He can weave a tale like nobody's business and make us sometimes root for the villain...or should I say...change our perspective in mid-stream. And George Stevens can tell a story with the way he unfolds his movies...his shots. But I guess Wyler was probably more respected by folks...and he had the goods. They don't make 'em like that anymore.

"Too bad TCM never interviewed her. I guess she wasnt a big enough star, but I'm sure she had some interesting stories as she worked with some big stars. Too bad." - <<< ((( HIBI ))) >>> Huh??? TCM interviewed her. I saw Anne Francis talk about her experience working with Spencer Tracy when she made "BAD DAY AT BLACK ROCK." ?

"And it is so sad to me, that she is a prize to the men, but neither really wants her - she is of no intrinsic value to either.... she is the gateway to the reward, not the reward itself. I think the men circling around her almost enjoy the contest with each other more than the prospect of winning her - the one-upsmanship goads them on and on. Check! Now who will Checkmate?" - << (( JACK FAVELL )) >> WoW!! Nice, Jackaaaaaaaaay. After seeing "THE HEIRESS" "THE SNAKE PIT" and "MY COUSIN RACHEL" (upon Bronxie's command) OLIVIA DeHAVILLAND is fast shooting up the top of my list* of favorite actresses. It's funny, I'm almost forgetting about her as Melanie or as the other half of the dashing coup- ling in Errol Flynn films. (That last shot of Olivia and Errol in "Captain Blood" is one of the great fade-outs. They were both so beautiful). I think Olivia is quite under-rated with all the fire and ice of Bette and Stanwyck et al. *List...list? Hooo boy, I've got to prepare something for Foxy Rey Man.

I remember Rochelle Hudson with Joan Crawford in "STRAIT JACKET." I am looking at a program call on the Investigation Discovery channel called "THE WILL: FAMILY SECRETS REVEALED." This episode...Joan Crawford's will. Casey LeLonde also appears. Interesting.

The ENCORE WESTERN CHANNEL will be showing TIM HOLT westerns on Thursday, January 29th. He may be short...maybe. But he's cute as all get out. If I had gone one more click...I'd have remembered this thread. Hey hey Jackaaaaaaaay.

For me, Ronald Colman has a dreamy voice, but standing next to Cary Grant...uhmmm....

D'ya see what you can learn on the TCM Message Board? < Barranca

The ENCORE WESTERN CHANNEL will be showing TIM HOLT westerns on Thursday, January 29th. He may be short...maybe. But he's cute as all get out.

I saw her in "Long Ago Tomorrow" many many many yesterdays ago. (And she was in the "National Velvet" sequel).

Well, Ralph and John are no Stymie and Spanky...but I guess they'll do. Who's playing Miss Crabtree?

Strolling on his fairway?? Okay, my turn. I daren't say what I am thinking! (Geez, you really must have been a pistol in L.A. last year.)

Ooohhhh...you wicked wicked Favell.

HA! Let me remind you...Mavens are mind readers.

* "Those YouTube appearances put CM into that great-looking category, too. A woman with a supernova smile." - <<< ((OLLIE )) >>> Thank you so much Ollie, really. And Meg thanks you too! * "I can't help it. It's the way I'm drawn. I need a personality to go with that supremely GORGEOUS body that I admit gave me a pang of...something when I looked at it...I'll check out 'Send Me No Flowers' - I've seen it before but not for a long time. Is he a big Texan in it?" - <<< (( JACKAAAY )) >>> Oh yeah, he's a big...every thing in it. But to be fair and balanced...he's a bit stiff in the role. But I liked seeing Doris' arm around him as they walk off the fairway.

Now see girls & Hollywoooooooood...THIS is what I'm talking about. I'm glancing at --"MY COUSIN RACHEL"-- uhmmm..."RACHEL AND THE STRANGER." Loretta Young has got to choose between two virile handsome hunks: William Holden and Robert Mitchum. No disrespect to our fabulous supporting actors but what kind of choice is it between Cary Grant and Ralph Bellamy or Cary Grant and Melvyn Douglas. Let's make it a horse race for our leading ladies of old. I don't want to watch all of "Rachel..." but I like her choice between these two. I think I'd put my stability on Holden...and other parts on Mitchum. Young looked very fetching in the scene by the creek; high cheek- bones and all that hair reminded me of Jennifer Jones a bit. And speaking of the dark beauty of Gail Patrick, why can't she ever get a break? "My Man Godfrey" "StageDoor" "His Favorite Wife" and even though I didn't see all of it...I can only imagined how she ended up in "The Doctor Takes A Wife"...losing out on love once again. Why? Edited by: CineMaven on Jan 6, 2011 11:16 AM - SueSue...seventeen is still too young for Clint. You don't want him to get in trouble, d'ya?

Believe it or not, my mother took us with her to see this in the movies when it came out. I probably didn't understand everything that went on in the movie when I saw it the first time...but to this day, I always remember the coffee. Sorry I missed it the other nite.

Bubbles Salmon...what a great name. Does she use a fan...or a snake? I always liked Brother Rat. But in "Paths of Glory" Morris was a coward.

I think I'd be smiling too if I were doing the thing I loved...making movies. (And having those Oscars can't hurt either).

They shoot horses, don't they?

In my best JULIE ANDREWS voice: "Climb ev'ry mountain..."

You need a personality to go with 6'6"?? Well...okay. Look, you might check out Clint Walker in "SEND ME NO FLOWERS" with Doris Day. He's no Richardson so I'm not suggesting you'll see any big range of acting. He's just a big good loo- king hunk of a guy. And I? I am a shallow Maven. (But I have my moments).