CineMaven

The ending is very good. He's treated as a "messiah" when he's not. He was acting on personal revenge, not on his caring for others. Grimesy, what are your thoughts on this: The bandits were being hanged for another crime they committed. Peck kills them (except Silva) for the crime he believes they committed. They were going to hang anyway. So? Who cares? I liked the feeling I personally got when everyone cheers him. It's very much in line with... you guessed it, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. The town believes he did it for them. Little do they know. So here he is a hero yet he really isn't. In fact, one of the men gets away. So he's a semi-hero, like Ranse. Print the legend. HA! Little do they care. I do think he is a hero who?s not really the hero...their hero...nor hero to himself. And that's Gregory Peck. From Cape Fear to To Kill a Mockingbird to The Bravados. He's an impressive hero. After seeing this film, I have to say he?s become a towering image in my head. We see him be violent. See him (so-called) go down to their level. And then see he admits he was wrong. See Atticus is the ?noble hero. And in ?Cape Fear? he?s the ?justified? hero protecting his family.I guess I like my heroes getting their hands and conscience dirty. He probably felt like a fraud. I hope he finds peace...those were berry bad men. I also like the fact that Peck has to deal with how he has gone about his "work." He takes responsibility for it. He knows he'll have to deal with it. The outcome, however justified from the town's sake, isn't enough to assuage his guilt. Admitting his error would be the first thing to do to forgive himself. (Yet another religious aspect.) A real hero admits his mistake especially if he admits it to himself. Just b'cuz you don't get caught...doesn't mean you're not wrong. Bush...Junior should look into that. But I'll wager he has lost no sleep over his actions.

Myrna Loy on a horse??? Pshaw!!! She was made for a Martini!!!

No.

I wonder if Stars such as The Talmadge Sisters, Corinne Griffith, and especially of concern Colleen Moore will even get a mention in Chapter 3? I'll bet that they don't. Looks like they will talk about Valentino, Fairbanks, Chaney, Swanson, Harold Lloyd, Clara Bow, Ronald Col- man, Keaton, John Gilbert, and maybe Marion Davies? I mean no one was any bigger than the Talmadge's during the first half of the 20's, so how could you not mention them? Why is Colleen Moore always slighted by TCM??? I am not a big Silent Film fan. But you have made a compelling point for TCM to maybe do a docu- mentary (or hire getting a documentary made) about some of those old great silent stars. After all, they were there first. Maybe a documentary can be done for "Hollywood...By the Decades" and focus on the stars of each decade. Some crossed the decades. You're right Gagman, some of those great stars do get short shrift for the ones that are better known. TCM could dig just a tad deeper. The era was rich. WHEW!! I'm just happy Oscar Micheaux got his foot in the door: (3:30AM - "Within Our Gates"). I have been enjoying the TCM special, very much.

By the way, may I humbly say that I think you have your Our Gang old ladies mixed up... Zeffie Tilbury is the one who was in "Under Cover of Night" and she was in the Our Gang short "Second Childhood". The lady in the short about the kite ("Fly My Kite") was Margaret Mann. Oh my my...I did get my "old ladies" mixed up. I humbly stand corrected...and can always stand to be corrected by a genuine poster who loves classic films. Thanxx for the correction. Now, check out the Forum's schedule...and lets do lunch! Fritz Lang Retrospective Jan 28-Feb 10. :-)

Gig Young.

Ha!!! There's nothing new under the sun. And now Lady Gaga does Madonna.

Janet. Janet...I am sending you a PM.

Hey there Musical Novelty. Thanx for the name. She was very exotic. She reminded me of being a cross between Mayo Methot and Rita Hayworth (before her transformation). I remember that older actress in this, who played the mother...was in a "Little Rascals" episode. (The rascals used her bonds as a kite's tail). The last line of "Under Cover Of Night" was chilling: "After the dog." By the way, I just joined up as a member of the FilmForum. When are you coming this way again??

I saw that film the other morning. I thought Sara Haden had a bit of sex appeal in this. Henry Daniell is his usual stiff self. There seemed to be an element of silent film melodramatic acting in this. Who was the girl he fell head over heels over. Interesting. I liked Dean Jagger in this too. I loved the ending. It made me think of Brian Donlevy's fate in "BEAU GESTE."

No, not the ground shot. Her face is partially to one side, and the camera has it thrusting towards us as she's about to look down over the cliff. Her expression can best be described as....ecstatic. Nigel's car isn't the only thing that's moving. The earth is -- for Pandora, as she realizes her lover is about to make a supreme sacrifice. Aaah yes. I just put the tape back in the vcr to see what you?re talking about. Yup. Did you see the splash that car made? WoW! Metaphors abound in that scene. "I feel the earth. Move. Under my feet. I feel the sky tum-ba-ling down...? I agree about Ava's scene with the young English girl. Ava says something like, ?You're not being honest? and she's almost like a female Spencer Tracy (don't laugh!) with that ease and naturalness you speak of. No I won?t laugh. I know exactly what you mean. When I watched that scene the first time, I was fairly shocked at how natural it was. Not that she was really ever false in her career, but it was shocking to me how natural it was. She swims in the water to the ?Dutchman?s? boat. I think of her years later in ?Night of the Iguana." Angelina Jolie, well, I've only seen one thing of hers, and was pretty impressed -- GIA. On the basis of that movie, I would judge her a good actress, with charisma and sensuality. She's very seductive, but none of these modern performers can come close to Ava, Rita, Marilyn, Liz, etc, because they just don't have that larger-than-life aura about them. Jolie was great in "GIA" and went through a slew of emotions. Larger-than-life. Yep, that is lacking now that we have reality shows to show us how human they are. Truer words were never --spoken-- written. I disagree with Chip. But be gentle with him, lol. However, you might want to bop ME on the head for thinking that Hedy Lamarr, while one of Hollywood's most beautiful actresses, falls short in the talent department. I abhor violence, so I won?t do any ?bopping.? I can honestly say that I've never really seen an ounce of true emotion cross that incredible face. I do love her, however, in SAMSON AND DELILAH -- a part she obviously relished and has a field day with. I am inclined to agree with you here as well. It pains me to confess that. It doesn?t lessen my enjoyment of her movies. And I?ve had to be honest with myself about many of my favorite actors and actresses. Talent might be the cherry on top of my affection for them. I read a quote from Hedy: ?I consider myself an artist, tomboy, and housefrau.? That's actually a fascinating combination! :-) When Pandora walks closer to the painting and says, ?That?s not me as I am atoll. But it?s what I?d like to be. Why am I not like that?? this is the crux of her yearning. She wants to be better than she is. She hides the vulnerability the next moment, by destroying his painting' willfull little minx. I fear Ava in real life led with her chin and had her heart on her sleeve. I fear Ava was hurt very much by men. I know, I should get thee to a biography.

Now here is a measure of your cruelty Bronxie. I gotta look at Tallulah Bankhead after Ava?? Aye yi yi!

Bronxgirl writes: There is a stunningly erotic shot of Ava watching Nigel push his car over the cliff. I found it exceedingly hard to believe that Gardner's character is a girl scout from Indi- ana who loves to toast marshmallows. I know the shot (I think) you?re talking about. Was she on the ground, and turned slowly on her back until she was laying on the rock in the foreground while the race car driver was in the back- ground? What a Mexican stand-off ((for a nanosecond)) where the man had to decide between his love and his passion all to have her. It was like making a deal with the Devil. And that Ava (?Pandora?) asked him to make that decision, was chilling. Ava is STUNNING in color, a true contradictory earth goddess, the real barefoot contessa, Venus in denim, her beauty ancient yet eternal, erotic, ethereal, mesmerizing. And the woman could act! I loved the scene where she's toasting marshmallows and tells the woman that she's going to take her beau from her. She did that scene with such ease and so natural...WOW! Now, not to be blas- phemous...but the only one (again IMHO) to come close to that today, is Angelina Jolie. And I think she?s a pretty good actress to boot. But Ava...Ava... I agree with what you so eloquently wrote. But it?s funny. I just hung out with ex-Message Board poster (ChipHeartsMovies) on Friday night and when I gushed about it Ava being the Star of the Month, he said Ava was one of the worst actres-ses. I nearly had a heart attack and almost bopped him in the head. << ( Sigh )) >> There are none so blind as those who cannot see. Miss Goddess writes: i always sense ava lavinia's grabtown girl behind the glamour. she's one of the warmest actresses i've ever seen, and that's why her "honey bear" kelly is my favorite character. it's the one that really lets her vulnerability, humor and warmth shine. to me, mogambo is the ultimate ava gardner showcase for her acting, followed by john huston's night of the iguana. Hello there Mighty Aphrodite. I think the dichotomy between vulnerability and the heartstopping looks of many of those actresses, is what?s kept them alive in our memory all these years: Marilyn, Rita, Ingrid (along with Ava) to name but a very few. As beautiful as Hedy Lamarr was, stopping conversation and clocks (time) in mid-air, I think she was a cold fish and was not warm and vulnerable. You could not get close to her. But that doesn't stop me from loving her in the movies. My favorite performance of Ava Gardner's is in ?The Killers" followed by ?The Night of the Iguana.? Yeah yeah, I might just be reacting to her as an iconic ?femme fatale? since I so dearly love film noir, but what can I tell you. I loved her telling Dekker: ?Touch me and you won?t live till morning!? I always wonder what the other great beauties of the day thought when they sat in the movie theatre and saw "GILDA" or "PANDORA..." or "CASABLANCA"/"NOTORIOUS." Kim Novak probably went to the movies as a kid and saw Rita Hayworth on the screen...and now she's in "PAL JOEY." Don't mind me...my mind wanders. Working on some deadlines of my own is preventing me from joining in on some of the wonderful conversations I?ve only had time to skim on ?GIANT? and ?THE THIRD MAN.? ( < :-( > ) I must must make time to break away to sit and watch ?Pandora & The Flying Dutchman? and let Ava and the story wash over me. It?s easy to suspend my disbelief, b?cuz Ava?s like a dream. Provence-Girl writes: I'm trying to compare them both to art -- is Ralph an etching, subtle yet sharp, and Larry a painting of the Romantic school, passionate and broadly drawn? Action Jaxxxon writes: You really have a way with words - that is a perfect description of the two actors! And I second that emotion...Bronxgirl, I absolutely love the way you weave and wend your way through the English language. Does it come naturally or is there a painting of Dorothy Parker in your closet? ?M? is coming on later and I know that was another discussion I missed out on. But what a towering achievement ?METROPOLIS? is. Edited by: CineMaven on Nov 7, 2010 11:25 PM

SPOILED BRAVADO PECK: "You're wasting a lot of good lumber. A tree'd have done just as well." SHERIFF: "They were sentenced to be hanged, not lynched." When a man in a grey flannel suit meets you on the beach at say...twelve o'clock high, you might be spellbound by the sight of him. I don't think you want to risk a duel in the sun with him when he is on a Roman holiday of revenge. Take the omen. Just turn around, you can pirouette or arabesque...pack up your guns of Navarone because only the valiant..actually no one is safe from this beloved infidel. Not even a mockingbird. I enjoyed this film, and loved seeing Gregory Peck mean and single-minded. How does he do it? I believe him when he is Atticus and I believed him here as Jim Douglas. I loved his resolve: "I'm going to find them if it's the last thing I do." And this is basically a death sentence for these four bandits. That doubt is hinted at and then later confirmed was surprising...and even when he had a shred of doubt, he kept going. I don't know if he could have functioned in his life if he hadn't had someone pay for the rape & murder of his wife. You know a movie is twisty topsy turvy if you start feeling sorry for Lee Van Cleef. Albert Salmi... ha! hang him high. There's nothing you can ever do with Albert Salmi in the movies. I did like the shot of Peck on his horse riding him down and lassoing him by the ankles. I enjoyed Joan Collins in this. She's not all glammed up and over-acting. And her character realizes that that might have been her fate had she married Peck. Stephen Boyd...geez, what can you do with Messala. He was unremorseful. Yes, he may not have done this brutal thing to Peck's wife, but you know he's probably done it before. What was chilling to me was after shooting down the hostage's horse, he tells the girl he won't make her walk...she can come right up here and sit next to him on his horse. Truly, that made me go "Oh no. Ewww." GIRL: "Please let me go. My father will give you anything." BOYD: "I've already got all he can give me." When the girl tries to escape and gets dragged back inside the cabin, we didn't have to go inside and see the details. I knew it was horrific for that poor girl. And Joan Collins running back out confirmed it. It was tricky with the wonderful Henry DaSilva. Yes, he has a wife and child too and he's holding a gun on Peck to protect his family. It was not them. I loved watching Peck wrap his mind around that information. But...but...and coming to terms with what he did. He clasped his hands in prayer, head bowed, right there and then. Does it matter if you make someone pay for something they didn't do...when you know they did other things equally as egregious? Should he lose sleep for killing men who were about to hang in the morning anyway? It's up to each of us to decide. If you follow the letter of the law you may get one answer and if you follow the spirit of the law...of justice, you may come up with another answer. Yes Jim Douglas will have to live with what he did to men who were innocent of the crime he thought they committed. But wasn't justice served? How ironic that the townspeople raised him on their shoulders, while he carries the burden of guilt on his.

Hey, I watched a Western.

JACK FAVELL writes: I watched about half of Pandora before falling asleep - then discovered that my dvd had stopped recording at 2 hours, missing the last 4 minutes of the movie. I know I set it for longer. Grrrr! Uh-oh. Oh noooooooooooooooooooo. PROVENCE-GIRL writes: I may have been unduly harsh with PANDORA AND THE FLYING DUTCHMAN. Just saw it again, though not entirely (only parts are on YouTube) and, even though I'm still not completely comfortable with this particular mix to fantasy and reality... My life is getting in the way, but I've only just started watching the film. Ava is Beautiful. In this, she (at least at first) uses her beauty as a weapon.

I'm sorry to hear this. I've always liked her: http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2010/11/06/jill-clayburgh-oscar-nominated-actress-dies/

Hey Mongo...how 'bout some shots of AVA in honor of her being "Star Of The Month"???

I just saw the commercial for TCM's Star of the Month for November. OMG! :x :x :x and by the way :x :x :x ...WOW! Narration and images. I love TCM and how they put it together.

Arkadin, thank you for giving me those dates. By the by...it was Miss Goddess who wrote this: "...Anyone else have it to watch? I want to revisit it after all these years in view of Arkadin's earlier commetns about its influence on Leone and the 'spiritual' aspects of the story. I just remember this western made a big impression on me in my early movie watching."

Miss G., I'm shocked. I thought you were a model child. I still think I was! But my mother refuses to believe it. Oh wow. LOL!!!! LOL!!!!

"Now I need to get to The Bravados...you just watched that recently didn't you Chris? Anyone else have it to watch? I want to revisit it after all these years in view of Arkadin's earlier commetns about its influence on Leone and the "spiritual" aspects of the story.I just remember this western made a big impression on me in my early movie watching." I saw "THE BRAVADOS" on Arkadin's suggestion and enjoyed it very much. Recorded it on VHS tape. Then I rewound the tape and went to watch it again. Of course, the tape broke inside the case and just kept spinning around and around and around. Ooooh, I HATE VHS tapes now. But I enjoyed the film. Gregory Peck < ( :x ) >. Miss G., I'm shocked. I thought you were a model child.

Who needs a suit. I feel protected by our new and improved Message Board Code of Conduct.

Jeepers creepers Ol'. Don't you know better than to face your monitor when you log onto this Message Board. You can spit from laughter of the cleverness of some or gag from, well...you know.

I'll go with you Helen. This is what happens when you have bloggers instead of real journalists or cinephiles. I've read better writing by some on this message board. Meh.