fxreyman
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Posts posted by fxreyman
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LMREO!!! So sad.............
Yes it is sad.
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Rey, you are right. There are a few repeat offenders that pop up on TCM from time to time even though TCM has been warned by us that they are receiving an edited or cut print. So, I can only assume that they can only get these films from one distributor. That being said however, it does seem to me that TCM does, especially in a very tight schedule where there is no wiggle room, end films prematurely to save time. In these cases, I do find cast lists being cut off from the ends of some older films that I know for a fact do exist. I am not saying that TCM physically butchers the prints, but simply turns off the projector or what ever they use to transmit these films to us right after the words "THE END" flash across the screen.
I do not believe TCM does this.
I think what happens is the print itself has had it's credits listing already cut off. What is TCM gaining by doing this if what you seem to be saying is correct? They have a few extra minutes then to advertise DVD sales or advertise upcoming movies or show additional institutionals?
I think what is happening is that on the rare occasion that the end credits are not shown, that TCM has nothing to do with this. They show entire films, including the end credits. But what is TCM going to do when a distributor sends them a chopped up version of a film that was meant to be shown on a commercial tv station and that version has had it's ending credits eliminated? TCM has no power over what they get.
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That is what he and many others do around here....
Change the original title of a thread hoping that more views will take place and or that they might be able to get additional comments.It is a sad practice, mostly done by individuals who are often feeling sorry for themselves because what they write is not read or looked at. Because what they originally wrote may not be good enough to stand the test of time.
Hence the changed title of a thread.
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It isn't surprising. The demographic at IMDB is probably not one that respects the history of cinema, despite the fact that IMDB chronicles that history so well. The IMDB App is clearly geared to people who go to a lot of movies today.
The movies on that list (I believe) are all in color. I know that many "young people" eschew black-and-white films. I was surprised to discover recently that my lawyer, a man of about 64 who loves movies, can't watch a black-and-white movie!
I totally agree with your assessment. I had a friend who I worked with back in the nineties who was a huge movie fan. If there were whatever number of films being released in a given week, he'd go and see them all. Then he would write a review based on his screenings and publish his review for a local paper he wrote for. Obviously the reviews were short since the paper had only so much space, so his longer reviews were edited down to a few short and concise paragraphs.
When I first met him he had been writing for the company's monthly newsletter. When he found out my love of movies he asked me if I'd be interested in writing a column myself. At the time I saw maybe three to four movies a month, tops. Back then I rented and bought more movies than I did going to see new releases in the theaters. He was amazed at all of the older movies I had in my library.
He would be the kind of person represented by the demographic that I think probably votes on those IMDB lists. They have no clue what existed years before them and then, would never take the time out of their schedules to even watch an older film.
He said something very interesting and later was sad for me to hear. He told me that he had never seen a movie made before 1980 and that he did not enjoy black and white films. He told me that he felt cinema before that was dull and non-interesting. I asked him if he had ever seen Citizen Kane, Gone With the Wind, Casablanca, The Best Years of Our Lives, and so so. He said he thought he had seen some of those films when he was much younger but again did not care for b/w aspect of the films. Hearing that I told him he should take sometime out of his busy schedule to watch some of these older films. He might learn something.
Well, eventually I asked him over for dinner and afterwards we decided to watch a film of mine. The first film I introduced him to was The Big Sleep with Humphrey Bogart. After watching the film he told me that he really enjoyed the film and felt that the film was just about perfect. He then said that he never thought a black and white film could ever be that good. I loaned him several other movies so that he could get a sense of the b/w films and told him to watch each one and tell me what he thought.
I loaned out to him Meet John Doe, Captain Blood, Lost Horizon, Foreign Correspondent, Casablanca, Shadow of a Doubt, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, Stagecoach, Out of the Past, and The Maltese Falcon.
He watched all ten and told me that his least favorite of the ten was Stagecoach. Somehow he was not too interested in westerns. Eventually that opinion changed. He was fascinated that these films were even made at all. When I told him that these ten were just a sampling of the black and white films available he started to rent additional films from the period. He never became an aficionado of classic films like me or many others here, but his opinion of black and white and all pre-1980 films had changed.
My goal was accomplished. I officially created another fan of classic black and white cinema.
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It may be that sometimes TCM (or other networks) choose a later, revised version because the quality of the prints are much better than the available original.
Probably not worth discussing, but wonder how many movies were revised by the time they went into general distribution from what the earliest showings might have been. Also, if a studio revised a movie for general distribution, would they exert a lot of effort in maintaining the quality of the original prints?
I do not believe TCM has any choice as to what type of prints they get when they create an order for a batch of films from a distributor. They get whichever version of the film they get and if they happen to receive a film that has been edited, I do not think there is much they can do about it except to show it without any mention of the fact that it has been cut or simply not show it and indicate that they can not show it for whatever reason they deem to matter.
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It is quite possible that whomever the distributor or studio that leased this film to TCM gave TCM the edited version of the film instead of the uncut version. I am NOT making excuses for TCM, but this is quite possibly the reason this version of the film was shown. As it so happens, people at TCM have in the past acknowledged that this occurs every now and again.
Not much they can do about it except that they can send the film back once the lease period is up and ask for the unedited film for the next lease period. Unfortunately for TCM, they really are at the mercy of the distributors who send them the films. There just is not enough staff at TCM to check these films out before they are broadcast.
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Rey, I will not argue your numbers with you. I am quite sure you are correct, but at the same time the channel has changed since it's inception to the extent that while they may still show a majority of older films, TCM is putting more emphasis on their newer films as well as the "usual suspects" that are repeated endlessly on the channel. Will you at least admit that the majority of those 1960 to 2000 films are shown in prime time while the majority of rare pre 1960 films are shown in the wee early morning hours through the afternoon? That is the trend that I am seeing. Isn't it possible that TCM is doing this to attract a younger demographic that does not like black and white films from the studio era to their prime time audience? That is the only reason I can see for showing films like LORD OF THE RINGS.
It is the case as far as the month of January is concerned. 47 post-1960 films have been scheduled to appear during prime-time as opposed to 44 pre-1960 films. So yes you are correct. However, out of those pre-1960 films, four are silent films. How many other channels would show silents during the evening's prime time schedule? Not many I do not think.
4 from 1920's
11 from 1930's
16 from 1940's
13 from 1950's
24 from 1960's
17 from 1970's
5 from 1980's
1 from 1990's
Now, I have not looked at the entire January schedule to see how many films are from each decade, but another thing to consider is the availability of certain pre-1960 films that match up with what TCM needs to broadcast them. Are they digital? Do they have a digital master? I am really not too sure about this but several years ago there was a conversation on the boards that delved into that and at that time many of the films people clamour for were at that time not available to be seen with TCM switching over to the new digital format. Add to this is the fact that thousands of pre-1960 films have now been lost forever.
With the continued popularity of the film cruises and the TCM festival, every indication is that the demographics seem to suggest that many fans are in their twenties and thirties. Which leads me to wonder what are the films they like? Are the films pre-1960 or do they like the newer films?
One last thing. As we get on in years, so do the films that TCM tries to gather for broadcast. Could they do a better job at acquiring the types of films people want? Or are they just doing what they can to keep the channel going each month with as few new older offerings? My guess is that TCM tries to get as many older newer titles but are now constrained but budgetary problems. But also I think a lot of the films are just not available to be shown digitally.
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Fred: There is too much junk now from the 1970s-90s on TCM, including many films I avoided seeing in the theater in the 1970s-90s.
Well maybe during the 31 Days of Oscar, but as I have written soooo many times in the past, if you spent some time actually looking at the whole schedule for the other eleven months of the year there are well over 65% films made before 1960 on the schedule each month. Sometime that number is in the low 60% range and other times the number is well into the 70 to 80% range.
I can understand that folks like you prefer to sit here and complain and judge the channel without really doing much snooping around and really looking into the actual movies on the schedule. You'd be surprised at how short a time can be spent actually counting the number of films being shown each month and from which decade they are from.
But, a lot of folks like you don't want to do the research needed to actually see how many newer films ARE being shown, so what do you do? You scan the schedule ever so briefly and if you do see a few post 1970 films on the schedule, you start to claim the sky is falling because there are sooo many post 1970 films being shown. When in fact there are not that many.
Fred: I first subscribed to TCM for the old Classic films, just as I subscribed to the early AMC channel for the same reason. For a brief span of a few years we had TWO Classic film channels to watch on Cable. Now we just have half of one.Maybe 7 to 8/10's of one Fred. Again, do the proper research and I am sure you will find 65% to 85% of the films being shown each month on TCM are from before 1960. But again. Are you going to do this? No, you'd rather sit here and just continue to spout nonsense about all of these 1970 to 1990 films being shown. Oh my.
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For those just beginning to explore the wonderful world of classic film, there are many more fine movies.
And this IS the way to think of schedules that are not up to par for many around here. TCM really IS the place for newbies to come to catch "classic" films.
Folks, if you are expecting TCM to show twenty, maybe ten new films each month you can probably forget it. At least until 2016. TCM is under tremendous pressure from their parent company to institute cut backs not only in staff but I am sure in the movies they rent or lease. Based on things I have read, TCM's budget for leasing films was slashed.
So get used to it. This is the way I am sure it will be for awhile.
Meanwhile instead of griping about the same old, same old being shown, if you don't like what is being shown on the schedule each month, guess what? There are many other channel choices for all of you to watch. Or better yet just watch something from your own library of films, just like I did last night with 1995's The American President.
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I just added to my last response so if anyone wants to comment on that response of mine this edited response is what they should respond to.
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I think the "31 Days of Oscar" theme CAN survive on only one or two presentations a day, which would leave plenty of time BETWEEN movies for films with predominately African American casts to be presented during what's SUPPOSED to be "Black History" month.
Plus, ANY movie in that category SHOULD be shown--ie: movies in which black people are shown as slaves, butlers, "mammies" and housemaids and such, villians, crooks, stablehands----ALL the "blemishes". After all, it IS "Black History month", and all that IS part of "Black History" in America!
To NOT show it is tantamount, in my eyes, to pretending it never happened!
And, pretending it never happened doesn't really erase the TRUTH. This was the reason given to me by a Jewish acquaintence of mine for why he doesn't object to any movies showing the brutal mistreatment of Jews. A sort of "We MUSTN'T Forget!" attitude.
Sepiatone
Personally I am with Morgan Freeman here.
Why must we have a Black History Month anyhow? I think this perpetuates the feeling or belief that somehow we as a nation have to celebrate a whole month of awareness towards one group of individuals. It is just like Freeman said during his interview with Mike Wallace... Why not a Jewish month?
I'll take this further. So we have one day a year where we celebrate the Irish. March 17th. Thats it. We have one day a year to celebrate our nation's independence from Great Britain... July 4th. One day a year to celebrate the birth of Christ then one day Easter, the resurrection of Christ, one day a year to celebrate Thanksgiving, and so on.
What about this one? Why not have an American Indian month. Then TCM could show all of those countless US Army cavalry films where all of those dastardly injuns die.
Listen, I totally get it that we need to look back at be aware of certain historical events in our history, but there is such a thing as over exposure. A day to celebrate the Irish, three days including Good Friday which I failed to mention to celebrate Christ, the two military themed days, Veterans and Memorial Day and so on. I just do not understand why this is such an issue.
As Freeman said in his interview, why a whole month? Is this really necessary? We seem to think that celebrating black history is somehow good but in the overall context what we should be celebrating is AMERICAN history. Of which black history is a part of, as well as Jewish, Irish, Italian, German, French, Muslim, any ethnic group considering we as a nation ended up and continues to be a melting pot.
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I think you know from my many past comments that I'm a long time defender of TCM's programming, but here's the thing from my perspective:
---Hollywood's rendition of the African American experience has been woefully inadequate over the years. I'm not saying that there haven't been plenty of honorable exceptions, but as the problems that Ava DuVernay had getting Selma funded demonstrate, it's never been a priority of theirs. This has long been a problem that bedevils serious movies in general, but with black directors the problem gets compounded.
Who is the group that you write about: "a priority of theirs"? It has been echoed not only in the recent past but especially after this year's Oscar nominees were announced. Those on the left seem unwilling to remember what happened at last year's Oscar ceremonies. Which film won Best Picture? A film about slavery. A black actress won the Best Supporting award. The same film won Best Adapted Screenplay.
It has been stated over and over that many more black films should be released. And why aren't they? Why aren't there more black directors, photographers, and other film tradesman around that could be up for additional awards and jobs in Hollywood? Ever wonder? I wonder if it is because Hollywood still operates as a union town? Why not make California a right to work state. Bet you if that were to happened many more minorities would be working there and then be given opportunities to showcase their talents in films and be recognized. Ever wonder?
The same logic/questions can and should be applied to women in film.
---Black History Month gets buried by 31 Days of Oscar. Nothing sinister about that, but it leaves only MLK's birthday as an obvious focal point for black-themed films. One (1) day out of 365. One (1) day out of 365. Not much meat on that there bone.
Okay, so what is the answer? I do not know. But I go back to what Morgan Freeman said on 60 Minutes in December of 2005 with Mike Wallace:
In the profile of Freeman, Wallace remarked that the actor/director’s “political views are at times surprising,” and then asked Freeman, “Black History Month, you find?”
Freeman said, “Ridiculous.”
When Wallace asked, “Why?” Freeman said, “You’re going to relegate my history to a month?” The exchange continued:
Wallace: “Oh, come on.”
Freeman: What do you do with yours? Which month is white history month? No, Come on, tell me.”
Wallace: “Well, I'm Jewish.”
Freeman: “Okay. Which month is Jewish history month?”
Wallace: “There isn't one.”
Freeman: “ Oh. Oh, why not? Do you want one?”
Wallace: “No. No.”
Freeman: “I don't either. I don't want a Black History Month. Black history is American history.”
Wallace: “How are we going to get rid of racism and ….”
Freeman: “Stop talking about it. I'm going to stop calling you a white man, and I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man. I know you as Mike Wallace. You know me as Morgan Freeman. You want to say, `Well, I know this white guy named Mike Wallace.' You know what I'm saying?”
Wallace: “Mm-hmm.”
Freeman: “Jewish guy. I have a lot of – some of my best friends are Jewish. Okay?”
So why do we need a Black History month? Is it to clear white's consciousness about the evils of slavery?
---And on that one (1) day, TCM consistently refuses to show any premieres, or to give us a large sampling of films that they don't usually schedule over the course of a normal year. There's usually one or two exceptions to this, but that's about it.
Again, I think really it is more about what is available each month and they (the programmers) came up with these films. Maybe other films were not available?
---And by its constant showcasing of Poitier (and to a lesser extent, Harry Belafonte), it reinforces the sorry message that Hollywood's been sending us for most all of its existence, i.e. that the black experience is only subject to the most conventional of story lines.
Maybe.
It's clear that by choosing to run 24 hours of African American themed films on MLK Day, TCM sees itself in the role of a messenger of sorts. But IMO by pretty much always featuring the same sort of movies* on this day, year after year after year, TCM is really blowing an opportunity.
Now I would agree with you here.
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Saying that doesn't allow people to complain about how horrible and repetitive they think TCM is.
"This is NOT entirely accurate. During daytime hours all the films are from other actors, NOT Poitier. Poitier just happens to be listed in all the films at night".
The above is what I wrote. I stand by the comment. Unfortunately I am not saying I am precluding anyone from commenting on the subject at all. Just me looking at the schedule and seeing just what was being shown against what some may think is a tribute to Sidney Poitier. That is all.
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I also disagree with you. TCM has made it their so called mission to feature certain types of films on certain days. No one is saying they HAVE TO do this. But TCM clearly has chosen to do this. All we are saying is that IF they are going to do this, year after year, that they are more creative in their choice of films.
Note that a similar point was made on Veteran and Memorial Day (as it relates to 'war' movies), as well as the months of October and December.
You may be right. But still you are missing my point. It is still NOT their mission, at least not what it was originally. You and others continue to point out that they do show certain films on certain days. But I do believe I remember one year not long ago where I think it was one of the American military days, either Memorial Day, Veterans Day or even the Fourth of July and films specifically for that day were excluded. It can and does happen.
TCM's mission IS to bring forward films they want to showcase to their audience. Day after day. Films from every decade, although still a vast majority are shown from before 1960 (I know you like to dispute that). The feeling around here is that just because they have shown a FEW movie series where they either showcase a lengthy series like they did last fall, or the Jewish films or whatever the series they decide to showcase, still their number one goal is to show films, period.
This is their bread and butter. Always has been and always will be until some bean counter at Time Warner decides enough is enough and turns TCM into the next AMC, which I still think will NEVER happen. Sure they will show certain films during so-called special occasions or like today with MLK day. But again, they are not going out of their way to make special commemorative days to help define or celebrate like Black History Month which they do not do anymore due to the timing of the Oscars and their 31 Days of Oscar programming.
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TCM is doing what any cable channel would do--saving the "heavy hitters"
for prime time and running the less familiar things earlier. That's show
biz. While it's good that TCM is celebrating MLK Day, it's not exactly
a major player.
Exactly! What is TCM anyway? It is a movie channel that shows films mostly from before a certain time. Although, based on their mission statement they show movies from all time periods. That is their mission in life.
It is NOT their mission to be socially relevant nor is it their mission to showcase certain message films throughout the year. Where they can show films relevant to a certain holiday or special remembrance like Memorial Day, July 4th, Veterans Day, Halloween and others. And today Martin Luther King Day. Let other media outlets do this, like PBS, CNN, or other socially-driven outlets.
All this hubbub or uproar about TCM going out and securing titles that should show the qualities set forth by MLK is silly. TCM has enough on it's platter without having to perform double duty trying to secure even more films about the qualities set forth by MLK. I think it is enough that TCM does what it has done today showing the films that they have shown today. Maybe not what many of you want... but then no one said you have to watch TCM all day today.
Just my two cents.
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It's a bit of an exaggeration, but the basic point holds: An actor who made a minuscule percentage of the films with African American themes gets a wildly disproportional percentage of his movies shown on MLK's birthday each and every year. This is NOT a knock on Sidney Poitier, who's a fine actor and whose place in history is set in granite, but even given Hollywood's shameful neglect of the black experience over the years, showing the same Poitier movies year after year after year shows a complete lack of imagination on the part of the TCM programmers.
Donald Bogle and several other living authors are virtual walking encyclopedias on the subject of African Americans in film. Why can't TCM turn over their programming to someone like that for one day out of the year, with maybe even (gasp!) a PREMIERE or two, instead of nothing but Guess Who's Coming To Dinner? and so many other of the usual suspects? Frankly, I think today's lineup is almost embarrassing in its lack of freshness and originality, One Potato, Two Potato aside. Just give us something new for a change.
Yes, you are correct Andy. They seem to show the same films over and over. A central theme here on the message boards. I know I will be possibly hammered for saying this again, but with the recent financial troubles TCM's parent company went through last year and the elimination of several staff positions within TCM, if memory serves I believe those positions were in their programming area I think that possibly TCM will at least for the foreseeable future rely on old standbys as far as the films they choose to show. At least until Time Warner opens their purse strings again. Maybe? I don't really know. Maybe the programmers ARE lazy?? Who knows?
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I agree with what you're getting at, but I think a better comparison might be if they only showed the pictures of Jimmy Stewart or Robert Redford, to the near-exclusion of anyone else. The problem isn't Poitier per se, as he's a fine actor and certainly no Bonzo. The problem is that TCM treats MLK's birthday as the private preserve of only one actor, and it's the same actor every year.
This is NOT entirely accurate. During daytime hours all the films are from other actors, NOT Poitier. Poitier just happens to be listed in all the films at night.
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January 16th, 2015
Deleted. Wrong thread.
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I think it is way past time to make a change to the original title of this thread......
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Again, who the hell cares?
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Who the hell cares???
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I am sorry I have not been around lately - mostly due to a physical move back to my adoptive, dis functional, and dead as a door nail broke Illinois, I have been reading with interest how this thread has evolved.
Based on what has been written so far there is a clear desire for some people to try and force TCM to explain or at the very least come "on the air" and tell everyone whether or not an actual film library exists at TCM.
There also exists a belief among some that no matter how often anyone here tries to offer any reasonable reasons as to whether TCM does or does not have an actual library from which they pull films from, their response is that of dis-belief or downright contempt for TCM.
Now I am sure there might be a response to this and that the response will be something along the lines of "cheerleading" for TCM, all I can say is that when someone like lzcutter comes on here to offer her "take" on this matter and is met with such negative comments, then all I or anyone else can do is throw our hands up in utter disgust.
For those of you who are relatively new around here, lzcutter, or her real name, Lynn is a very valued member of TCM city. Now that she has been helping out with moderator duties, one should also know that she has been a member here for almost ten years!
She has taken part in many film discussions here and was involved with many of the flame wars of several years ago. Lynn IS very knowlegable about film history and restoration efforts. With close ties to TCM, she has more info to share than some of the message board members taking part in this thread.
So whenever anyone of us "old guard" of the message boards have something to say, the very least some of you can do is show some respect and be a little less critical with your opinions.
As far as Infinite's request to have anyone cite what the status of "any" actual or supposed library of films exist or does not exist, I am quite sure with all of the negativity that exists on the message boards the past few years, it might be a very long time before an "official" answer is offered. Either on the boards or "on the air".
This is sad and I say the following knowing I might be called out, but a good place to go and read about matters such as these are as Lynn offered is Will McKinley's blog or the Silver Screen Oasis, where a forum is dedicated to archived guests who have offered their take on matters of film.
I personally do not think that TCM has an actual library, although they act as though they do. I think that however many films they lease and are available to show, these films then are considered their "library".
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1. The Best Years of Our Lives
2. Patton
3. Lawrence of Arabia
4. Casablanca
5. The Bridge on the River Kwai
6. Ben-Hur
7. The Sound of Music
8. From Here to Eternity
9. Dances With Wolves
10. No Country for Old Men
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I'm sure you'll all enjoy this TCM library exclusive.
Exactly!
Mental Disorder Classic movies
in General Discussions
Posted
It is called sour grapes.