Arturo

*So by the 50s (when Young film career was dying down, and out of wedlock births were not as big of an issue as they were in the 30s), Young could of told her so that she could of had a relationship with Gable for around 10 years.* Loretta's film career may have been dying down in the 50s, but her TV career was revving up, starting in 1953. And it was just a few years earlier, in 1950, when Ingrid Bergman, one of the biggest and most beloved stars of the 1940s, was ostracized and demonized here. So Loretta knew the times were not quite right to come out publicly about a love child, and not have her career (on the tube) go down the tubes.

*Has anyone ever notice that people from other countries like India don't seem to have the same problems with their skin color as negros?* I may be wrong about this, but actually I think that the Indian caste system is partially based on (or originated with) degrees of skin color, lighter being considered better.

*"Negro", as I said, the Spanish word for "black" (I'm sure Arturo will correct me if I'm wrong about that) gradually turned into that other word, the "n" word: "n****r". This has now become a totally unacceptable term, treated as a kind of swear word or obscenity. The reason for that is all the horrible connotations around it, the way white people used the word when speaking to or about black people.* This reminds me of an incident with a couple of my black coworkers. I overheard them talking about not liking any of the latino workers speaking in spanish amongst ourselves, with them being there, as for instance, on the elevator. One of them said, "...cuz if I hear one of them say one of those "Nigra" words, it's on!" Sorry about my spelling, but that is my approximation of how she said it; she obviously knew "Negro" meant black in spanish, and she would assume the spanish-speakers were talking about her if she heard that word spoken.

Has anyone read the new biography on Loretta, theone titled "Hollywood Madonna'? It is being advertised on tCM as a tie-in with her SOTM. Anyway, I'm planning to buy it, but due to the posts about an announcement, I'm wondering how they deal with Judy in this book.

The start of 1948 was a momentous time for Linda Darnell. On the career front, FOREVER AMBER was making the rounds, no longer in roadshow engagements; it had not quite made her the superstar that had been anticipated, but it did raise her profile sufficiently. and she was one of the top sex symbols of that period. The followup movie, THE WALLS OF JERICHO had completed filming, and was being edited. She was getting ready to start filming a black comedy with comedy genius Preston Sturges, UNFAITHFULLY YOURS, with her hair cut short and back to its brunette coloring. This would be her first picture with a contemporary setting since 1945's FALLEN ANGEL. On the home front, Linda and husband Pev Marley had decided that a child might help their marriage. Since Linda was unable to have children, they had decided to adopt. Soon a blonde baby girl, Lola, joined the household. Linda's family believed that Lola was Pev Marley's biological daughter, although this has never been publicly confirmed by the involved parties. The existence of Lola was made public a couple of months later, with Linda declaring that they hoped to adopt a baby boy in the near future. Linda would be given a surprise baby shower on the set of UNFAITHFULLY YOURS once word got out. Edited by: Arturo on Jan 9, 2013 2:35 AM

I am truly shocked and saddened to hear this news. Lori was always kind, gentle and civil here, yet infused with passion in discussing her passion. She will be missed. I will keep her in my prayers and my most sincere condolences to her loved ones.

*But another point of contention, at least for me, is the "American" posting second. I DO have some pride in my Polish heritage, but when some twit asks the old question, "What's your NATIONALITY?", I always reply "American".* *After all, I was born in Wyandotte Michigan, which IS, last I looked, in America. Raised in neighboring Lincoln Park, MI, ALSO in America. Educated here, made my living here, raised MY family here, and STILL live in America. I'll only go so far as to claim being "American-Polish". It all goes to my earlier statement about people "cramming their heritage down our throats".* One thing is for ethnic white groups going by the hyphenated "Irish-American", "Polish-American". etc. However, it is not the same thing when a group chooses to prefer the self-designation "African-American". Forget that, if applied literally, Charlize Theron is one; this term has accepted demarcations. And whatever term blacks choose for themselves, it depends on various evolving factors, including political awareness or consciousness. The bottom line is that it was not imposed by the majority group. The white ethnics do not have a centuries-long, and continuing, struggle against oppression; their terms are more descriptive statements of fact, with little, if any, political overtones, other than a source of nationalistic pride. "Native American" is another term that would not fit the general reasons as those of hyphenated ethnic whites; it also denotes political awareness and consciousness. It is a term to remind everyone on two levels. First, they are the first Americans, the only ones who can say they are native to the New World. Second it is to correct Columbus' error by giving them the misnomer "Indian". Forget whatever dilutions have subterfuted this, where something like one part in sixteen is sufficient for one to self-identify as such. It is a term of preference by another group which has for centuries experienced racism, suppression and oppression. Unless you are part of a group that remains at or near the bottom of the socio-economic totem pole, your preferred term, or your ethnic group's preferred term, does not resonate quite the same. Racism is alive and well in the US in this millenium. If one can pretty much negatively characterize, and caricaturize, the President because of his race, you know this is true. And multi-culturalism is a fact; what is wrong with embracing the many threads that make up the American experience? After all, that is what this country has always proudly held up to the world, no matter what the sad truth might have been. Sink or swim was the policy in the past, total immersion and assimilation; well some groups and many individuals would get left behind. Self-loathing and poor self-esteem victimized many individuals who couldn't see how they could fit into the society here, while their roots were forcibly yanked out from under them, leaving them with nothing to stand on. That is the sad reality from a history of forced assimilation, a large racial and economic underclass.

LadyE, thank you, I hope this exhibit is good. The space is a great one imo; I was last there a few months ago for an exhibit in conjunction with the 50 year anniversary of Marilyn's death. Hope they've done Loretta justice. Will try to report on it tomorrow.

*A general FYI for Loretta Young fans.* ** *On Wednesday January 9th, the Hollywood Museum begins an exhibit featuring many of Loretta's personal items, including her Oscar; some of her costumes; scripts; rare photos, and so forth.* *I will be visiting Los Angeles next week to see my ailing father, and if I have a chance, I am going to head over to the museum for a few hours.* Topbilled, I got invited tonight to what I thought was going to be a 100 year tribute to Loretta, at the Hollywood Museum. I guess it's the opening for this exhibit. The Hollywood Museum is located in the old Max Factor Building, an integral part of Hollywood history, and a great Deco bldg.

*Isn't there a convenient device you can buy to avoid the problem of having to miss parts of movies because of a needed comfort break?* Just last night, while on my commute drive home, I heard a blurb on a news station (NPR?) about an APP (I think) that came out that tells you when are the best times in any given movie to take a restroom/concession stand break.

Linda Darnell started filming THE WALLS OF JERICHO in late 1947. 20th Century Fox had decided that this would make an ideal followup vehicle for the stars of FOREVER AMBER, as the melodrama offered Linda another opportunity to play a scheming woman chasing after a reluctant Cornel Wilde, who had been her one true love in AMBER.. Darryl Zanuck included a strong cast for this tale of a small town in Kansas a century ago, including Anne Baxter, Kirk Douglas, and Ann Dvorak. The story concerns Wilde, unhappily married to dipsomaniac Dvorak, as a lawyer in Jericho, Kansas. His friend Kirk Douglas, who is publisher of the town newspaper, moves back to Jericho with a new wife, Algeria Wedge, played by Darnell. She realizes that Wilde is unhappy with his wife, makes a play for him, who spurns her. She then tries to get back at him by manipulating her husband to write unflattering articles and editorials about him, as Wilde's character becomes a politician, even convinces her husband to become a politician and run against Wilde, especially when Algeria realizes that Wilde is involved with a female lawyer, played by Anne Baxter. Algeria also manipulates Dvorak's character to shoot husband Cornel. In the ensuing trial, with Baxter as the defense lawyer, Darnell's machinations are revealed. This melodrama is interesting, if rather slow, with some strong acting from its cast, especially from the women. Linda again was convincing in her smiling malevolance, Anne Baxter and Ann Dvorak were their usual standouts. Although the tight period outfits flattered Linda's figure,THE WALLS OF JERICHO appealed mainly to Linda's female fans, with its women's melodrama subject matter, and as such, was not as big of a hit as it could have been. It seems that the studio waited awhile before releasing it, finally coming out in August 1948, some ten months after FOREVER AMBER. This wait, plus the movie's moderate success, did not noticibly help nor hurt Linda's career.

After the long, exhausting filming of FOREVER AMBER, including retakes and additional scenes, Linda Darnell took a well-deserved rest by vacationing in Europe. Accompanying her was her estranged husband, Pev Marley. After the fiasco with Howard Hughes, Linda and Pev attempted to resolve their issues and try again. However, cinematographer Marley was soon summoned back by his studio, Warner Brothers, to shoot LIFE WITH FATHER. Linda remained in Europe, resting, shopping, sightseeing, but also promoting FA in the different cities and countries she visited. Although she didn't like maintaining the blonde hair coloring done for AMBER, she was ordered by Fox to remain a blonde until after the rounds of premieres for this movie. Meanwhile, back in Hollywood, Preminger and Zanuck and his minions were working on getting the Production Code and the Legion of Decency to relent in their objections, and mollified them to a fault, i order to get their potential blockbuster released. Zanuck, unsure of the impact FA would have on Linda's career, remained undecided as to what to next cast her in. She would have been well cast in THE FOXES OF HARROW, a costume epic set in early 19th Century New Orleans, with a Scarlett O'Hara-like heroine. Both Tyrone Power and Gene Tierney had turned down the top roles; the part of Stephen Fox had then been assigned to Rex Harrison. However, it would start filming with the first FA director, John M. Stahl soon after AMBER wrapped, and Linda needed a rest. In any event, Maureen O'Hara played the tempestuous heroine. As mentioned before, Zanuck cast actresses he borrowed for some movies that could have been offered to Linda: Joan Crawford in DAISY KENYON, Dorothy McGuire in GENTLEMEN'S AGREEMENT. Zanuck bid his time for several months while he decided what was next for Darnell. Linda finally returned home from Europe in early Fall 1947, for the premiere of FOREVER AMBER. She was to remain a blonde for awhile longer, until after to London premiere. She found out that Zanuck had decided to re-team Linda with her AMBER co-star, Cornel Wilde, in a vehicle designed to take advantage of its success, THE WALLS OF JERICHO, to be directed by Stahl. Linda would go into this new assignment as a blonde. More to follow......

*Another "pure" disco song which I heard yesterday (and hadn't heard in years, just like many disco songs) was "Cherchez La Femme" by Dr. Buzzard's Original Savannah Band. It was great to hear it again.* One of my all-time favorite songs from this era is this evocative tune. It has a 40s big-band sound (another popular style employed by disco producers) to it, and with its lazy summer breezy pacing, would convey a lazy summer breezy evening in Savannah, GA. I would not call it "pure" disco, and it was a hit on r&b radio.

*There are, in fact, some great disco songs that are pure disco and would never be heard on an r&b station. Examples are "Forbidden Love", by Madleen Kane, and "I Feel Love" by Donna Summer.* Well these I would call Eurodisco. 'Forbidden Love" has that use of strings with a pseudo-classical feel so common to this type of disco; the vaguely gregorian chanting underscores that. "I Feel Love", producer Giorgio Moroder's first all-electronic masterpiece, has been influential on all genres of dance music since then. No less than John Lennon was reported to have gone into a recording studio's playback room, playing it over and over for hours on end, and emerged to pronounce it THE record of the 70s, and the wave of the future. Neither of these records have much of an r&b feel to it, and therefore, were not played on r&b stations, as mentioned. Soul stations and artists were not too keen on playing disco, although record companies tried to have these artists record records for the disco market.

misswonderly wondered: *I usually say "Scor-say-see". But I've been told this is wrong, that it should be "Scor-seh-see" . Does anyone know? Has it ever been proclaimed from the horse's director's mouth?* The correct Italian pronunciation would be more close to your second rendering, as the vowels are clear, without a dipthong component. The only correction would be that you've rendered the third syllable as the Italian 'I' (the letter that starts "Italian), not 'E'. So it would be closer to Scor-seh-seh. This is an approximation of the correct pronunciation in Italian. How Martin pronounces it I don't know. Edited by: Arturo on Jan 7, 2013 2:13 AM

Being a native Spanish speaker, and having studied the Romance languages, and taken a couple of years of Italian, I can say that the correct pronunciation has three syllables: Ca-po-ne. The last should not be rendered as -ney, or -nay, because it is an English short E, but without the dipthong (scsu's rendering of it as -eh approximates the vowel sound, but the syllable would start with the consonant preceding it). Yes the two syllable pronunciation is obviously an anglicized version; Capone may have preferred it, as many immigrants in the past, and to this day, find some not so subtle pressures to assimilate, and often change the way to pronounce an obviously ethnic name. If I had allowed it (beyond elementary school), I might be Arthur on these boards. PS - The Ramones' name is supposed to be the plural of the singular Spanish name Ramon (written accent on the O-my computer is not letting me add it). It too would be correctly pronounced with thee syllables, analogous to Capone...... Ra-mo-nes (again NO dipthong).

The completion of principle photography on FOREVER AMBER, in March 1947, was not the end of the process. Zanuck and/or Preminger had come out with some new scenes and filming these proceeded in April. Additionally, studio heads and the director had some more skirmishes with the ever-vigilant production code. It was claimed that the script as filmed had not gotten their seal of approval, since there had been some changes. Further, there was objections to some scenes, and what was referred to as Linda Darnell's "heaving breasts". All of this demanded refilming, including cutting out any passionate kissing between Linda and Cornel Wilde, editing those scenes to not actually show them kissing. Zanuck also cut out some scenes, even storylines and characters, in order for the movie's running time be no more than 2 and a half hours. This seemed to be the upper limit to the length of his epics. The movie was roadshown in major theaters in large cities,beginning in October 1947 through the end of the year. I did landslide business everywhere. However, the Catholic Legion of Decency gave it a C rating, and stated that the movie was "Morally objectionable for all". Boycotts of the movie sprang up outside some of the theaters showing it. The studio panicked, and sent studio mogul Joseph Schenck to try get the Catholic organization to reconsider this. He reputedly got down on his knees and begged the emisaries to lift the rating. They agreed to reconsider it, if the studio would make some changes. Chiefly, they wanted a prologue and epilogue added stating that Amber must suffer the wages of sin, or something to that effect. The studio obliged, and recalled all the prints to make these changes. The Legion of Decency changed its rating to the less severe B grade, to the studio's relief, especially since the boxoffice had begun to slip due to the boycott. Critics gave the film, and Linda's performance, mixed reviews. Most felt that she was physically the Amber of the novel, and that the production was visually stunning, with the sets and costumes getting raves, and correct in details, but that the plot was bowlderdized and ruined by censorship. They felt there were some outstanding sequences, and with a supeb score, but overall that it didn't live up to the hype. With a gross of $8 Million, it was one of the top hits of the year, but didn;t quite meet expectations, especially since the final cost was over $6 Million dollars, including costs for the aborted version.

I don't think I would ever call it a Hispanic Hollywood movie. Robert Rodriguez is a respected director, born in San Antonio. The star, Danny Trejo, was born in Los Angeles in *the Echo Park area, which is not in South Central, and has recently been called "one of the top ten neighborhoods" by the APA* Well up until about 10 years or so, Echo Park was a mostly working class Latino neighborhood, with a smaller Asian presence and a smattering of everything else. Due to its proximity to both Downtown LA and Silver Lake, it has been gentrifying at a rapid rate. It is still majority Latino, but now there is a larger mix of everything else, with many trendy whites bringing new shops, clubs and restaurants up and down Sunset Blvd. For a view of this process, see the movie QUINCEANERA from several years back, or for an earlier glimpse, MI VIDA LOCA from the 90s I believe.

*Tell them that Bing Crosby was David Crosby's father.* Finance: I know YOU are old when you think younger people nowadays know who DAVID Crosby is/was.

*THE PROWLER* Which was on TCM yesterday. DUH! I was thinking THE WHISTLER with my above reponse. Edited by: Arturo on Jan 6, 2013 2:49 PM

finance wrote: It's very fashionable to dump on disco music, but I've been regularly listening to Studio 54 radio, and it's fantastic. A lot of the stuff that they played in discos was just danceable r&b. The energy level in general is off the charts. jamesjazzguitar replied: *....this is a common debate between the wife and I. I'll get into her car and I'll ask 'why are you listening to this?', she says 'hey this is good music to dance to'. I say 'OK, I agree with that but since we are sitting in a car and NOT dancing, I'm putting on jazz!'.* Disco did evolve mostly out of danceable r&b in the early-mid 70s, especially that r&b coming out of Philadelphia, with Motown also contributing. The beat was made more emphatic and long instrumental breaks were inserted. I used to Dj with a cousin at the end of the 70s-early 80s, and I always enjoyed disco music. Later I grew to hate it and wouldn't listen to it. In the last year or so, however, I've gotten back into it. I friend I've known since college and knew I could dance to it, had been trying forever to get me to go with her to some periodic "Back to Disco" events in the LA area. Last year, she had her birthday celebration at one such event, and I attended and really enjoyed myself. I went on an extended spree to Amoeba Music in Hollywood, and bought many CDs featuring this music (I've yet to enter the ipod age). jamesjazzguitar, my point in relating all this is that as I listened to this music with renewed interest, I noticed that many of the disco songs, especially the early ones from the mid-70s, had passages and instrumentation that can only be descibed as 'jazz". One of the reasons disco was so disparaged back in the day, was that, as a producer's medium (as opposed to the often annonymous artists), they tried a kitchen sink approach, including anything and everything (Ethel Merman doing disco anyone?). Well jazz was in the mix with everything else, especially, as I say, early on. The reason for this, I believe, is that many musicicans doing session work on r&b records, or actually under contract to one of these record companies, had a background as jazz musicians, Motown's Funk Brothers being a prime example. So it wasn't a stretch that as the songs were stretched during the transition from soul to disco, the musicians would utilize the expanded format by maybe improvising some jazzy instrumentation.

*They should have shown her films on Sunday then instead of Wednesday.* And there'd be a 9 pm pacific time (or so) spo for her silents.

*Anyway, maybe I'll down one of those huge 32 oz cups of pop, and see if I can withstand the entire 3 hours without need to exit the screening room.* Seems like you go for the Small drink lol. I myself prefer the Large (64 oz?), especially since I get a free refill. Of course, I often have to make more than one intermission, moreso when I sneak into another movie.

FOREVER AMBER's troubled production had shut down at the end of April 1946. Removed were star Peggy Cummins and director John M. Stahl. 20th Century Fox studio head Darryl Zanuck asked Otto Preminger to step in as director, review the footage shot thus far, and make whatever changes he felt were needed. Preminger stated he would have to reshoot everything; Peggy Cummins was in almost every scene. Preminger also decided to have the script rewritten. No announcement was made for a couple months on who would replace Cummins, although Zanuck had already decided on Linda Darnell; Linda's performance in the just-completed MY DARLING CLEMENTINE having swayed the mogul on casting her. Likewise, names like Henry King were floated in press releases as the replacement director, despite the fact that Zanuck had settled on Preminger. In July, it was finally announced that Darnell and Preminger would take over, and the filming would resume that October,while another script was readied. Preminger, who had not wanted Linda, reluctantly announced to the press, "She's got the animalistic quality we need". The male star, Cornel Wilde, Fox' biggest except for Tyrone Power, had already had enough, and did not want to return. Playing hardball with the studio, he was able to get a huge salary increase in order to have him remain in AMBER; however, a vengeful Zanuck would give him mostly poor roles in the future. Other major cast changes happened due to actors going to other films during the hiatus; these included the loss of Vincent Price as Lord Almsbury, and Reginald Gardner as King Charles, replaced by Richard Greene and George Sanders, respectively. Richard Haydn, playing the stern Earl of Radclyffe, requested that he be allowed to return in this atypical role; the studio had flirted with the idea of Clifton Webb in the part. Haydn came back as the earl. The script, already pared down as to the number of husbands, lovers and out-of-wedlock children, still manage to touch on most of the main events in Amber's saga: including being sent to debtor's prison, becoming part of a den of thieves, being responsible for a deadly duel, surviving both the London Plague and the London Fire, and becoming mistress to the king. It still had to get the Production Code seal (again); as expected, cuts and changes were stressed. With the resumption of filming, the brunette Darnell had dyed her hair a reddish blonde. She was required to lose weight and maintain a rigorous diet. Actress Constance Cummings was hired to coach her on an appropriate accent. The studio seemed happy to publicize Linda's separation from her husband, hopefully tying this in the public mind with Amber's amorality. The filming lasted over five months, none too smoothly. Preminger again tormented Linda, who felt that he didn't care if he got a good performance out of her. Linda fainted more than once on the set, possibly because of the strict diet. She was also ill and missing for several days. Many in the cast got the runs when a substitute used for fog, Nujol, turned out to be a diarrhetic. Filming finally ended in March 1947, the most expensive and one of the longest shoots in the studio's history. More to come.......

Note: I have reposted, and edited and added to, an earlier post on FOREVER AMBER. FOREVER AMBER was one of Fox' most important productions as WW2 was ending. Based in the biggest selling book of the 1940s, by first time author Kathleen Winsor, it tells the story of Amber St. Claire, a beautiful country girl in Restoration England of the 1660s. Unknowingly born into nobility, as an infant she was deposited on the doorstep of a Puritan couple in a country village. She yearns for the excitement of London, and the restored court of King Charles II, and achieves these goals through a succession of marriages and other relationships with a dozen men, as well as varied adventures. Darryl F. Zanuck intended it to be the biggest and most successful epic ever. Many young actresses, both on and off the Fox lot, coveted what was considered the most prized female role since Scarlett O'Hara. Zanuck tried to get a British actress, and offered it to both Vivien Leigh and Margaret Lockwod, who both turned it down. Once it was obvious he couldn't get the British stars he offered it to, he decided it would be one of his own. Early on, the front-runner was Gene Tierney, his top dramatic actress, who had just scored the studio's biggest grossing hit up to then, LEAVE HER TO HEAVEN. Additionally, this success had resulted in DFZ assigning its director, John M. Stahl to AMBER, So it would have reunited this winning team in the studio's biggest production. But Zanuck decided to hold out for a British actress, and awarded the plum role to his just signed contract player, newcomer Peggy Cummins. When filming began, she seemed to do well as the innocent teenager of the early scenes, However, she proved to be inadequate when it came to portray a full grown woman, looking like a young girl playing dress up. After FA had been in production 39 days, and nearly One million dollars spent, Zanuck closed down production, removing Cummins and Stahl in the process. Tierney would no longer consider doing AMBER at this point, feeling snubbed and not willing to play second choice. Zanuck appointed his most appropriate star, IMO, Linda Darnell. She had been suggested early on as such (with her hair dyed a reddish-blonde of course), but was initially overlooked. She had the voluptuous figure the role called for, as the costume designer Rene Hubert acknowledged when Linda did get cast, and he joyously returned to his original designs. When production resumed, Otto Preminger was at the helm. He had not wanted Linda (they had not gotten along while doing FALLEN ANGEL and CENTENNIAL SUMMER). He preferred Lana Turner, and even engineered a dinner party to have Lana flirt shamelessly with Zanuck in order to be cast. Zanuck would not cast her, saying he wasn;t going to do another studio a favor by giving one of their stars this part. Thrilled as Linda was in getting the coveted role of Amber, she was upset that this meant she would no longer be able to play the role of Catana, the earth gyspy she had been assigned in CAPTAIN FROM CASTILE, due to the overlapping production schedules of both films. More to come.....