Arturo

Italian and Spanish, both being Romance languages descended from Latin, have much in common. I took a couple of years of Italian at East Los Angeles College, where all the students but one were of Mexican descent, with varying degrees of Spanish fluency. The other person was a fourth-generation Italian who knew nothing about Italian. That guy really struggled with class, while the rest of us fairly breezed through it. He was especially frustrated when the instructor would recite a sentence featuring words not on the previous night's vocabulary lesson, and we would know the meaning. "Bodega" with the meaning of as a sort of market seems to be used among Puerto Ricans, although "Mercado" is the more widespread word. Bodega is the general Spanish word for warehouse or storage area. Edited by: Arturo on Oct 16, 2012 2:58 PM

*I don't think anyone has mentioned another Jeanne Crain movie: "Vicki". She made this with Jean Peters and is a remake of "I Wake Up Screaming." It's a rather good murder mystery.* I mentioned VICKI on my initial post here, stating that it was one of two of Crain's movies that have been released on DVD as part of the Fox Film Noir series (the other is DANGEROUS CROSSING). While I prefer I WAKE UP SCREAMING overall as the better version, I do like Crain and Peters in VICKI.

*I have a sound effect on my phone of the Full 20th Century Fox fanfare* I believe the full 20th Century Fox fanfare came in with Cinemascope in 1953, the extra bars played over precisely when "Cinemascope" was shown. Don't know if and when the full fanfare was curtailed.

*10-key? What's that? Do you mean the F10 key?* That' the set of numbers to the right of the letters on the keyboard,NOT the numbers above the letters.

*Of course they came from Spain. Why do you think Monterey was founded on the site of the big Bay? The English had San Francisco Bay and the Spanish had Monterey Bay.* This is not correct. The exploratory expeditions of the 1540s and 1600s that went up the coast to California and beyond MIGHT have had ships that came from Spain, but even then, ports on the west coast of Mexico: Natividad, Acapulco, Manzanillo, had been quickly set up to build ships; tropical woods were plentiful. By the time that the actual settlement of California took place in 1769, it was just an incremental push a little further into the frontier...northern Mexican outposts supplied the manpower and supplies, including ships....Spain was not going to send a fleet around Tierra del Fuego to some Godforsaken corner of the world when they just had to move up a few hundred miles. The English apparently landed on Drake's Bay, north of San Francisco Bay. It is thought that early expeditions, both English and Spanish, missed the Golden Gate because it was probably shrouded in fog. The bay was actually discovered by a land expedition moving up from Sonora in approximately 1776.

You mean you can't do the Gomez vs. Herman choice?

OK now, if it's Morticia Addams vs. Lily Munster, then it's Morticia hands down. She was sexier then, or maybe Lily's makeup was on the heavy side. But if it's a contest between Carolyn Jones vs. Yvonne DeCarlo in their Hollywood movie prime, then it's Yvonne by a mile. She was much more beautiful and sexy, and with a knockout body; Carolyn's looks then were rather, um, more esoteric.

Sepiatone wrote: +My wife was born in Laredo, Texas. She's of Mexican descent, but grew up speaking a dialect of Spanish called "Tex Mex". And while most Tejano's can understand most of the Spanish spoken by true south-of-the-border Mexicans, and those Mexicans can understand most Tex Mex, a lot of Tejanos find difficulty with the Spanish spoken in other Latin American countries. My wife can understand the lyrics in any Mariachi song, **but has difficulty with Cuban, Puerto Rican and other Central American dialects. **Get into South America(Columbia, Argentina, Chile etc.), and she's pretty much lost. Though it all sounds much the same to us "Whettoes", **she claims the accents vary much like the accents in North America; ie: Southern, New England and Midwestern. And actually, those So Cuba and Puerto Rico are in the Antilles, not Central America. The accents can vary even more that English accents here; some can be nearly unintelligible. And accents in Latin America can vary in a given country, with regional pronunciations and usages. Edited by: Arturo on Oct 15, 2012 5:28 PM

*Monterey and Carmel, CA, are very old towns, and in fact they are old Spanish towns (European Spanish, not Mexican). In other words, people first arrived by ship from Spain, and not overland from Mexico. So it might be an old Spanish word from Spain.* Monterey, WAS founded by the Spaniards, specifically to be the capital of Alta California, but it was founded both by a sea expedition AND an overland trek. Many of the soldiers and early settlers were brought from México, from where these expeditions were organized and set out. The ships DID NOT come from Spain, but left the port of San Blas, in the present day Mexican state of Nayarit, or some other west coast Mexican port. Likewise, the land expeditions were assembled in a town in Northwest México, probably in present-day Sinaloa state. Most of the foot soldier and settlers came from these same settlements. *While all Spanish-English dictionaries usually show only ONE Spanish language, there are actually many, with many different countries and regions in Latin America using a lot of different words. Many are old Spanish words, but some are words from other languages.* *For example, the difference between cigaro and cigarrilo for cigarette. And other slang words that I can't remember.* Cigarro and cigarrillo can be used interchangeably, and often are, by any given individual; these are not geographical variations. However, there are many words used regionally in one area but not another; sometimes, the same word develops other meanings in certain areas. *Also, in Mexico, many double words are slurred together, turning two different short words into one long word. In much the same way that Germans will put two separate words together to make one long word.* *But, the Mexican slurring of words tends to be used when Mexicans learn English, and it causes them to speak improper English, with words slurred together that we Americans never slur together.* This "slurring of words" as you put it, is called Elision (if I remember my phonetics classes), and is used in all of the Romance languages. Speakers of these languages think in phrases or sentences as they speak, instead of individual words. This gives the impression that they are speaking fast, with words 'slurred together".

*In all my many years of traveling to Mexico, I've never heard the word Paisano used by any Mexican. Their word for friend, companion, and neighbor is generally amigo (amiga specifically for a female).* *While growing up I always heard the word paisano used in reference to Italians (especially in old movies about Italians), with this word being the equivalent of the Mexican word amigo.* *So, does anyone know the reason for this discrepancy? Did Italians mix with Mexicans in old Monterey or Carmel and El Paso, or was Paisano and old fashioned word used by Mexicans, that is no longer being used by them?* Fred, Paisano is a Spanish word, and refers to a fellow countryman (from the Spanish word País-country). If I remember correctly, I believe the Italian cognates are Paese, Paesano (not sure though). As in many Spanish words, it may not have currency throughout the Spanish-speaking world, but it is a perfectly valid word. Here in Southern California, among Mexicans and Mexican-Americans, a shortened slang form, Paisa, is used to refer to someone from south of the border. Amigo means Friend; the Italian cognate is Amico....of course usage can vary among an indvidual as well as from region to region.

Here are some codes, mostly for Spanish orthography . . . Use (Right) Alt and 10-key Alt 128 Ç Alt 129 ü Alt 135 ç Alt 130 é Alt 160 á Alt 161 í Alt 162 ó Alt 163 ú Alt 164 ñ Alt 165 Ñ Alt 168 ¿ Alt 173 ¡ In the Alt 130s and 140s, are other symbols over letters used in other languages

*IMO, flour tortillas are an abomination, invented when people couldn't get masa to make real tortillas. IOW, they are revisionist norteno* crap... * *But this thread is about a film, not tortillas, so I'll shut up.* Corn tortillas ARE the "real" tortillas because this was the staple of Mesoamerica (still is). The conquering Spaniards brought wheat with them, and adapted the tortilla to masa harina. It became a common food in the north of México, where sparse nomadic tribes didn't lend itself to the wholesale mestizaje, or mixing of races and cultures, the way it took place further south. Additionally, the generally drier climates of the north were more favorable to growing wheat, which explains the predominence of wheat tortillas there. Wheat, as the food of the conquerors, still holds more prestige over maiz . . . Boy do I hate it when I go to someone's house and they serve bolillos with the Mexican food, when tortillas are called for. That said, I enjoy both corn and flour tortillas, preferring each for certain dishes . . . but there's nothing like homemade tortillas, whichever type. PS - that pic of tortillas can be or corn tortillas. **If anyone can tell me how to get a tilde over that second n, I'll do it...* On my keyboard, it's press Right Alt and 164 on the 10-key . . . for ñ. The capital Ñ is Alt 165.

*DUEL IN THE JUNGLE is a Warner Bros. picture from the 1950s. Has it ever aired on TCM?* I have it taped on VHS, which means it's been awhile since I noticed that it was being shown. However, I don't know if I got it from TCM, or some other source like AMC.

AddisonDeWitless wrote: It's the only film I've seen of hers where I really get a sense of her electricity and full range of talent- there are hints of it in All That Heaven Allows, but that's not really an "actor's" movie and while she's solid in Johnny Belinda, The Lost Weekend, the stupid Magnificent Obsession and The Yearling, I think she could have been better- although in each case save for Weekend, I think it was likely the fault of the director. I'd put Wyman in the same class as Gene Tierney- an actress who was never truly allowed to plumb the full depths of her emotions and talents, but if she had been, she could have set fire to the celluloid no doubt. *TomJH wrote:* *. . small pleasure that it is, watching Jane Wyman in show biz girl peppy mode, full of exuberance (a real contrast to her role as the homesteader wife in The Yearling, which she was filming on the MGM lot at the same time).* This was actually one of Jane's last roles in her old guise of exuberant, wisecracking (blonde) dame. With THE LOST WEEKEND, followed quickly by THE YEARLING, and soon enough JOHNNY BELINDA, a new image emerged for Miss Wyman, and as she won an Oscar and hit true stardom at this time, as one of the "Great Actresses" of cinema, she rarely went back to the old image of the late 30s-mid 40s. With notable exceptions like LET'S DO IT AGAIN, she went into the 50s specializing in soapish melodrama that allowed her Acting to be on display front and center.

*I'm not familiar with FOUR'S A CROWD. It sounds promising. Has it been on TCM?* It's shown fairly regularly on TCM.

YOU WERE MEANT FOR ME was mentioned by the original poster. Jeanne Crain desperately wanted some roles that she did not get. She really wanted to be in the Jane Froman biopic WITH A SONG IN MY HEART (1952), and was almost cast in it, but Froman preferred Susan Hayward, feeling, among other things, that Hayward more closely resembled her. Part of Jeanne's chafing with the roles she was offered at Fox, once the studio got over making her a gushing co-ed in pigtails at every opportunity, was that 20th didn't assign her more musicals. Which explains her wanting to do WASIMH. Also, she really wanted to do 1953's GENTLEMEN PREFER BLONDES (as blonde Lorilei Lee), and knew that Fox was wavering on giving it to Betty Grable (for whom it had been bought) or new musical star Mitzi Gaynor (Anne Baxter also wanted the part, and had dyed her hair blonde in 1952). In the end, we all know new sensation Marilyn Monroe got it. Interesting footnote: Jeanne Crain starred in a sort-of sequel (prequel) to this, along with Monroe's partner Jane Russell: GENTLEMEN MARRY BRUNETTES (1955). When they went to France to film, Crain's new sexpot image actually helped her upstage Russell. Crain also badly wanted to do THE ROBE (1953). She turned down THREE COINS IN THE FOUNTAIN (1954) because she did not want to leave her children at that time to film in Rome (Jean Peters did it instead). Soon after this, she requested out of her contract with Fox, fed up with her struggles for roles, and tried her hand at freelancing.

*She's an amazing lady. I think I read that she has eight children!* She lost out on a number of roles due to her pregnancies (although I thought she "only" had seven children. Among them are included; CHICKEN EVERY SUNDAY - Celeste Holm did it YOU'RE MY EVERYTHING - Anne Baxter MOTHER DIDN'T TELL ME - Dorothy McGuire ALL ABOUT EVE - Anne Baxter I'D CLIMB THE HIGHEST MOUNTAIN - Susan Hayward SOMETHING FOR THE BIRDS - Patricia Neal Some other movies meant for her were cancelled when she became pregnant, and were never filmed. On the other hand, she BEGGED Darryl Zanuck to hold off on casting PINKY until she had her baby and came back from maternity leave. Zanuck obliged, providing Jeanne with the highlight of her career. And just as Anne Baxter inherited ALL ABOUT EVE when Jeanne became pregnant, Jeanne got PEOPLE WILL TALK, meant for Baxter, when Baxter became pregnant. Edited by: Arturo on Oct 11, 2012 8:18 PM

I concur. Her oscar-nominated role is on DVD, PINKY, as are her two Manziewicz films. Others include two from 1953, both as part of the Fox Film Noir series: DANGEROUS CROSSING and VICKIE (neither among her best IMHO). Besides those mentioned on this thread, other outstanding films that deserve a release include CENTENNIAL SUMMER, a colorful musical with an all-star cast; THE MODEL AND THE MARRIAGE-BROKER, also featuring Thelma Ritter as the the other titular role (guess who was which); and THE FAN, with a surprisingly effective Jeanne in an underrated Preminger adaptation of Wilde's "Lady Windermere's Fan".

I finally got to record an episode of one of my favorite Western series, "Wagon Train", a few weeks ago, which I hadn't seen in decades. It was "The Dora Gray Story", which had as guest star my favorite actress, Linda Darnell. Interesting storyline, almost a stand-alone episode, as it had little of the actual wagon train and stars, other than Robert Horton. I wonder if it had been a script done to be a movie, then adapted to fit this show. Anyway, it was from the first season, airing in early 1958. LInda was also featured in the season's final episode, so I'll be looking out to record that one as well.

*Stargazing, You mention why was the name "Johnny" such a popular trend? Could it be because the name seems to roll of your tongue more easily.....'Franky O'Clock' or 'Johnny O'Clock'?, "Franky Angel' or 'Johnny Angel'?* Then there's FRANKIE AND JOHNNY (not sure whice names are -Y or -IE)

*I'm not sure if it was the case then, but for years a film had to play in both LA and NYC by December 31 in order to qualify for the Oscars given out for that year.* I believe that they did have to play in both cities for ONE WEEK to qualify.

ginnyfan wrote: Parent's Magazine named Virginia the Outstanding Juvenile Star for 1940. Mickey Rooney, the 1939 winner, presented the award to her on the set of one of his movies. MGM had to have shot footage of this presentation for publicity purposes. I wonder if it survives and, if so, where? *I don't know for sure of course, but I think it would be more likely they'd have shot publicity stills of the event, rather than film footage.* *BUT - whatever, I hope we find it some day!* Seems like this is the sort of event where they would have filmed it, for incorporation into one of the newsreels they did.

*Allan Dwan: over 130 feature films from 1914 to 1961 (most were low-budget, though he did occasionally get to do a medium-budget picture).* And on at least one occasion, he did a big budget epic: 1938's SUEZ, with Loretta Young, Tyrone Power, and Power's soon to be bride, Annabella, who he met on the set of SUEZ.

Tom, thanks for another heartfelt and informative reprt on a great figure from classic Hollywood, on a par with others you did for Raoul Walsh and Errol Flynn. Like Walsh, Curtiz was one of the all-time great directors to have come out of Hollywood, with a long and varied career. But just one oversight.... *It was a studio known for its melodramas and costume adventures, and that was Michael Curtiz.* You're forgetting their gangster films/crime melodramas that helped codify the studio's image and required the male stars they groomed.

Thank you Addison. Actually, I have to revisit the song, as I think I left out a few lines from the first stanza.