Arturo

Back in the early years of this century, Fox Movie Channel used to do something that irritated me. At the end of one of their classic era movies, they would put all the 20th logos over the years, one after another, including a CGI effects one for this century. However, when the movies started ending an IMMEDIATELY went into a commercial, without a logo of any sort, I knew that the channel was changing, as they deemphasized their older movies and original programming. At that point I wished for the montage of logos.

I have a strong Suspicion that any remake of a classic-era classic is gonna have an unhappy ending, whichever actual ending is used (especially when the plot has since been reworked, revamped, redone in many permutations, as Fred mentioned).

Here's a guess. It's probably wrong because it's not a Western nor is it sung in a saloon. Rather it's the 1947 version of the campus musical GOOD NEWS. Joan McCracken and a cast of dozens sing and dance to "Pass the Peace Pipe", in which many native American tribal names are in the lyrics.

Here's one no one has mentioned. Persis Khambatta, or for men, Yul Brynner. Maybe because, half a century notwithstanding, we seem to have the same hairstylist.

Good luck. Being that it was a Fox production, they have many worthy titles in their vaults. Even with Bogie as star, it may never have an official release. The only way is maybe as a collection of Humphrey Bogart titles done at the studio; a few years ago 20th released boxsets of stars that did an occasional film on loan there (Cary Grant, Clark Gable, Bette Davis). Offhand, I can count three titles Bogart did at Fox: this one, UP THE RIVER, and THE LEFT HAND OF GOD-this seems to be the minimum number to rate a boxset. PS - this film is sometimes shown on FMC.

*And the truth is that if Gable had had a choice (instead of being told by MGM), he would never have been in his most popular movies. If he had had the freedom to chose, he wouldn't have been in IT HAPPENED ONE NIGHT. He wouldn't have been in MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY. He wouldn't have been in GONE WITH THE WIND. He wouldn't have been a star.* Well, if Gable had had a choice in the matter, he might not have made the above three movies. However, before he was consigned as punishment by MGM to go to the (then) poverty row studio Columbia in late 1933 for IHON, he was already a star of the first magnitude. He hit stardom in 1931-1932, and was already one of the Top Ten Boxoffice stars. So he was already a star. He might not be as well known today, but he would have most likely remained near the top at least through the 30s and his joining the service during WW2. He would most likely still have had the title "the King" conferred on him in the late 30s.

*Eventually these older actors died off, or were supplanted by other younger actors. Those that were in this group included the following:* *John Wayne, Vivien Leigh, Orson Welles, Joseph Cotten, Dana Andrews, Greer Garson, Jean Arthur, Raymond Massey, Martha Scott, Robert Montgomery, Geraldine Fitzgerald, Walter Pidgeon, Jack Benny, Joel McCrea, Randolph Scott, Teresa Wright, Rosalind Russell, Ida Lupino, John Carradine, Roger Livesey, Jennifer Jones, Ingrid Bergman, Big Crosby, Fred MacMurray, Van Johnson, Ray Milland, Gene Kelly, Cornel Wilde, Donna Reed, Rex Harrison, Jane Wyman, Ronald Reagan, John Garfield, Lana Turner, Robert Mitchum, Anthony Quinn, Loretta Young, Dorothy McGuire, Joan Bennett, Betty Grable, Deborah Kerr, Clifton Webb, Broderick Crawford, Robert Ryan, Lee J. Cobb, David Niven, and Robert Young to name a few.* Great post and not wanting to nitpick, but the following were stars (or leading players at the least), by the mid- to late-30s: Jean Arthur, Joel McCrea, Randolph Scott, Rosalind Russell, Bing Crosby, Fred MacMurray, Ray Milland, Loretta Young, Joan Bennett and Robert Young. *And then the last wave of truly great stars to emerge from the Hollywood golden era of actors were the following:* *Lauren Bacall, Rita Hayworth, Susan Hayword, Gregory Peck, Kirk Douglas, Ava Gardner, Monty Cliff, Marlon Brando, Burt Lancaster, Eliabeth Taylor, Audrey Hepburn, Janet Leigh, Frank Sinatra, William Holden, James Dean, Grace Kelly, Marilyn Monroe, Sophia Loren, Charlton Heston, Judy Holliday, Maureen O'Hara, Arthur Kennedy, Shelly Winters, Eleanor Parker, Karl Malden, José Ferrer, Alec Guiness, Shirley Booth, Julie Harris, Debbie Reynolds, Richard Burton, Alan Ladd, Leslie Caron, Gloria Grahame, Doris Day, Jane Russell, Glenn Ford, James Mason, Eva Marie Saint, Ernest Borgnine, Lee Marvin, Yul Brenner, Rock Hudson, Sterling Hayden, Carroll Baker, Tony Curtis, Joanne Woodward, Paul Newman, Patricia Neal, Sidney Poitier, Shirley MacLaine, Kim Stanley, Jack Lemmon, and Laurence Harvey to name a few.* Likewise, seeing as how the earlier paragraph concentrates on names that were big by the 40s, some of these should have been in that list, as they were stars, or at least established names, before WW2 was over: Lauren Bacall, Rita Hayworth, Frank sinatra, Maureen O'Hara, Alan Ladd. William Holden, Eleanor Partker, and Glenn Ford, while playing leads by the mid-40s, didn't really become big until later in the 40s.

*We apologize for the West Side bias.* Thanks. I guess I should have grown a thick skin and/or be immune to this by mow. I always thought that the Eastside was roughly those neighborhoods east of downtown LA. But the LA Weekly long ago informed me that the Eastside was everything east of Western. Go figure.

*Thanks for informing me. I had not seen his name in other lists or prize winners from the end of the year. I figured it must be a film that played in LA to qualify.........* You're welcome. although in reality this one wasn't one of those that played here for a week (think they gotta do that in NYC also) to qualify for the 2011 Oscars. Rather it was a Latino-themed movie that usually gets a limited general release here for Mexican/Latino audiences (and I guess elsewhere where there is a large demographic of same).

*Yawn. I cant believe how in my younger days I really cared about this. I see they stiffed Leonardo again....Who the hell was that foreign actor? (not the Artist guy)....* I don't necessarily come on this board to discuss anything other than classic era movies, but I'll give my two cents on the nominations. First of all, DiCaprio SHOULD HAVE BEEN nominated for his turn as Hoover. He was much more believable to me as J. Edgar than he had been as Howard Hughes. not that he didn't do a fine job in THE AVIATOR, but in the several years since that came out he seems to have more gravitas along with the laugh lines and crows feet; he seemed to me a callow teen as HH. Again, I feel he should have been nominated this year, but NOT at the expense of Demián Bichir, the Mexican novela and movie actor, who was deservedly nominated. He starred as a Mexican gardener trying to give his son a better life in A BETTER LIFE. At least here in Los Angeles, it was in movie theaters last year. The best solution IMO is to increase the nominated individuals to 10 per category. Or go the way of the Golden Globes, and 5 for Best in a Drama and 5 for Best in Comedy/Musical. There are always some vital performances that get overlooked. I've seen most of the movies with nominations, and plan on seeing the others before the awards come around (can't tell you how often I've gone to the movies since Christmas in my attempt to catch up). Edited by: Arturo on Jan 24, 2012 8:56 PM

*(...'cause as you know, THOSE boulevards don't run through Beverly Hills!!!)* My point exactly. Cuz staying wide awake while on those streets can cause a problem.

Not to mention Compton, Manchester or César Chávez blvds.

*I think they're all good. I am glad to hear they kept it to THREE and not the original FIVE !! I don't think the character development would have good at all. I wonder what "types" they deleted from the story?* The original story had 5 wives. The first treatments for the movie had it down to four; Anne Baxter was cast as the fourth. Offhand I don't remember what her character was about.

*This was Crain's second film for Mankiewicz. He seems to have been annoyed with her since she was always pregnant between films and cared about family, later having 7 children. Zanuck wanted her to play Eve in ALL ABOUT EVE, but Mankiewicz said no.* Actually, this was Crain's first movie with Mankiewicz (she made PEOPLE WILL TALK with him in 1951). And from what I remember reading, while Mankiewicz didn't want her, Zanuck DID cast Jeanne in "Best Performance" (as AAE was then called), AND it was another of her pregnancies that had Anne Baxter take over the role. Ironically, Baxter was first cast in PWT, but got pregnant, whereupon the role was then given to Crain. *Sothern's career got a boost from this film and Mankiewicz offered her the role of Karen in IN ABOUT EVE. Unwisely Sothern turned the role down for a two picture deal at MGM which included the pleasant if minor musical NANCY GOES TO RIO. I wonder if Sothern regretted this move later on.* Interesting that I've always thought that Celeste Holm would have worked very well in Ann Sothern's role in ALTTW, although Sothern is perfect (of course, then another voice would have to be Addie's, maybe Anne Baxter's a la MOTHER WORE TIGHTS). *Darnell comes off best with her snappy, brittle delivery and worked well opposite Paul Douglas. I believe they made two other films together.* Seems their verbal sparring was a runaway success with critics and audiences, and the studio sought to capitalize on this by reteaming them. Also thrown in was Celeste Holm to complete the love triangle angle. First off was the remake of 1939's WIFE, HUSBAND AND FRIEND, EVERYBODY DOES IT (1949), which is quite funny and did well at the boxoffice. Darnell is an opera diva wooing baritone Douglas, to the chagrin of Holm, wife and would-be thrush. The second was THE GUY WHO CAME BACK (1951), which had temptress Darnell again after football has-been Douglas, this time with Joan Bennett in the part of the wife (it had originally been written for Holm, who had asked for release from her Fox contract). Linda went on suspension over her role (she was tired of glamourous decorative parts), but relented when circumstances forced her to take it (starlet Marilyn Monroe tested for the part when it seemed that Darnell wouldn't be doing it).

*{quote:title=SansFin wrote:...}{quote}* *Colorizing older movies makes them far more accessible. Fans of classic movies have built such a mystique around older movies that many people feel they can not enjoy a black and white movie without having a wealth of esoteric knowledge about the director, stars and genres.* *To say: "You have to watch this movie even although it is in black and white. It is the director's initial use of outre nihilism so you can see how it all began. It is given subtle humor by the star using the same accent he did in another movie the year before when he played a character who was insane. You also get to see the sets from twenty other movies because the studio was having financial troubles and they had to reuse all that they could" is dooming any possibility that it will be watched and that is exactly the type of thing most fans do.* *Having the film in color removes at least one barrier and makes it seem mainstream so a potential viewer is more likely to give it a chance.* Are you frigging kidding?!? I have NEVER tried to sell the viewing of a classic era film by giving this type of background information. I am NOT an adherent of the Auteur theory, so who the director was, what camera angles, point of view, montage or whatever, are not my main focus. Rather, am I entertained by the movie is my milepost. I can rate an entertaining B by a "hack" just as highly as a "masterpiece" by some anointed director. Both are equally valid to me. > When I first started going to repertory cinemas, back when such places were common, I just enjoyed the films as movies, as entertainment, and made no distinction between them and the more contemporary films I also attended at the time. I felt no need to study up on the history, social or technical, of the movie I planned to see. I'd just go, and either like the film, or not. *I believe you came to classic movies in the best way possible.* *With the death of such outlets the most prominent venues for older movies are University showings, film preservation events and film festivals.* *In many people's minds these equate to:* *University = things for which you must study* *Film preservation = high-brows begging money from rich people* *Film festivals = the normal-looking equivalent of Trek conventions* *How many people at the TCM Film Festival have said: "I knew nothing about old movies and I only came because I heard this is a big deal and now I love film noir"?* *It is my opinion that demystifying classic movies is the only way to attract new viewers.* *Colorization of some movies may be a step in that direction.* IMO with the death of such outlets, the most prominent venue for older movies is TCM; one does not have to get all intellectual or attend high-brow locations for this; just turn to this channel. TCM respects these movies for what they are, and shows them as intended. Whether that is still a barrier for some people to try to hurdle, it's a self-imposed barrier, and as such, will not be overcome with colorization. Either you're gonna try to see them with an open mind or you're not. One of the reasons I find the new Sherlock Holmes films so appalling is this attempt to update and try to stay current. Who knew Sherlock was into martial arts? I don't remember Rathbone being an expert of this also. LOUD, violent, and with annoying stop-action to appeal to modern audiences; these are poor substitutes for Holmes' acute intelligence and powers of observation. A travesty of what the characters and storylines were about.

*I read somewhere that Alice Faye attended Betty Grable's funeral. At first, I thought they would've been rivals but it seems they were very good friends.* **+As for Faye and Grable, it's easily explained because both ladies were genuinely nice people who understood the above. And when Marilyn Monroe began to be cast in roles at Fox that Grable had owned a few years ealier, the older woman accepted that with the same cheerful grace and helpful equanimity that Faye displayed during Grable's ascendancy at the studio. Both women probably understood that while dramatic actors can transition into mature supporting roles, the options of those who are primarily musical comedy stars.* Most accounts have it that Grable got along well with female costars and rivals. Exceptions to this include Carole Landis (according to a Landis bio) and June Haver (which one Grable bio states that Betty thought June was a sanctimonous hypocrite). *Both women probably understood that while dramatic actors can transition into mature supporting roles, the options of those who are primarily musical comedy stars (particularly women) are more limited.* Both Faye and Grable had opportunities to try out more dramatic roles than usual, especially in early phases of their stardom. Neither felt comfortable in anything outside of musicals, although Faye welcomed a change of pace at the end (FALLEN ANGEL), although she felt Zanuck sabotaged her career, whereas Grable thought Zanuck wanted to sabotage her career and refused to do PICKUP ON SOUTH STREET. Monroe on the other hand, caused no end to problems for her studio (and to herself), and was often the butt of jokes and snide remarks, by wanting to expand her range and doing stuff other than the light musicals and comedies in which the studio felt she excelled and the public adored her. Edited by: Arturo on Jan 10, 2012 7:08 PM Edited by: Arturo on Jan 10, 2012 7:10 PM

I *was watching a Kay Francis film this morning, and it started me to thinking. I wonder what her relationship at the studio was like with Bette Davis...? We never hear about any of this. They were the two top female stars on the Warners lot, with very different styles I might add, and they never appeared on film together (to my knowledge). I am sure they had dressing rooms near each other and studio gossip and rumors kept them both very much aware of each other's careers and lives.* Throughout most of their joint tenure at WB in the 1930s, Kay Francis was the bigger star. While Davis was acknowledged for her acting prowess, the studio wasn't quite sure what to do with her; they often gave her programmers that she balked at doing. Francis, meanwhile, was having vehicles developed specifically for her. It wasn't until 1938 that things changed. Kay po'ed her employers so much that they announced in the trades that she would finish off her (expensive) contract in B films. Properties bought as vehicles for her were reassigned (TOVARICH, THE SISTERS). Concurrently, Davis, fighting the Brothers Warner for better parts, had the first of a long line of vehicles designed for her, JEZEBEL, and this, along with the part meant for Francis in THE SISTERS, established her once and for all as a top moneymaker for the studio as well as its top dramatic actress. Kay, who didn't do as WB had hoped and leave or refuse roles, got some rather poor movies to wind down her years there. What these two actresses thought of each other over the years I don;t know. Kay was more interested in the money than in making art; Bette vice versa. Bette must have felt bad for her fellow stablemate, and the shabby treatment their employer (and nemesis) was doling out in publicly humiliating and trying to break Kay.

*The Stones changed "Let's Spend The Night Together" to "Let's Spend Some Time Together" at the request of Ed's people.* Jagger always claimed that he didn't actually sing the cleaned-up line, but mumbled through that section.

*If they were to do one song on Sullivan, It would be the hit single, "Light My Fire", rather than the great opening album track, "Break on Through".* I don't know what song(s) the Doors did on Ed Sullivan, but BOT was the first single from the debut album. It did well in LA and some other markets, but failed to make much of an impact on the national charts. So it wouldn't have been just an album track, but a minor hit that they would have performed.

*I tend to think that its greater influence was the success of another Fox film, JESSE JAMES. Once that one clicked, we saw this one from Fox, Universal's WHEN THE DALTONS RODE (both of which had Randolph Scott who was also in JESSE JAMES) and MGM's BILLY THE KID.* Exactly. And don't forget Fox' own official sequel, THE RETURN OF FRANK JAMES.

I know the tag 1939-HOLLYWOOD'S GREATEST YEAR is debatable, and has been debated here. But if the thread were to continue into 1940,(please Please PLEASE CONTINUE!) there wouldn't be a noticeble drop in quality in the films being released. Truth is, I've gotten used to my daily fix, and will have a hard time going it cold turkey, Thank you many times over filmlover for letting me and others live vicariously in the past with many of my favorites as news and history were being made.

People here keep mentioning THIEVES' HIGHWAY, but not Valentina Cortese, sensational in this film as the hooker with a heart of gold. Marilyn Monroe had a bit as a prostitute in her segment of the omnibus film O'HENRY'S FULL HOUSE. And Jane Russell was a 'Dance Hall Hostess" servicing the servicemen in Oahu during WW2 in 'THE REVOLT OF MAMIE STOVER" Edited by: Arturo on Jan 5, 2012 1:14 AM

Actually, more like GWTW combined with that other 1939 hit, JESSE JAMES (but that may be a *SPOILER*).

Well you can count on one sale here. I've been waiting for it since I first heard it announced. Ann is definitely one of my favorite classic film actresses.

*I am not sure if she was signed to Fox before or after Zanuck had gone off to war. Zanuck inherited some business decisions that had been made by William Goetz during his absence. Zanuck ousted Goetz when he came back from the war and then set to work on fixing projects currently in production and dealing with new signees like Baxter who were now on the payroll.* Anne started at Fox in 1940, and was given supporting roles at first. Zanuck gave her an important role in SWAMP WATER in 1941, and soon after Orson borrowed her for THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS. She started getting star parts in THE PIED PIPER and CRASH DIVE (where she got to star opposite the studio's top male star, Tyrone Power, for the first time). She was not Zanuck's automatic first choice for many roles, and parts she coveted in CLAUDIA, SONG OF BERNADETTE, and JANE EYRE (among others) went to actresses borrowed by the studio. Her Oscar-winning role as Sophie came about because it was suggested that she had a "***** quotient" (or something along those lines. Even with the Oscar win, Zanuck preferred to give top roles to outside actresses when Gene Tierney was unavailable (GENTLEMEN'S AGREEMENT, THE SNAKE PIT), and her career never really reached its potential while at the studio. Another nomination after ALL ABOUT EVE didn't result in better roles, especially since by then Susan Hayward was on the lot and getting some originally announced for Anne (DAVID AND BATHSHEBA, WHITE WITCH DOCTOR). She, along with Crain, too wished to have a sexier image while at Fox. *From what I have been reading in a book about Zanuck, he was not too partial to Anne Baxter. He felt she was too patrician (as the real-life granddaughter of Frank Lloyd Wright) and could not be considered for roles in many of the studio's musicals and light-weight comedies. Of course, she did fare better in serious material, earning an Oscar for THE RAZOR'S EDGE and a nomination for her bravura performance in Fox's ALL ABOUT EVE.* Zanuck did give her some opportunities in comedy (THE GREAT PROFILE, LUCK OF THE IRISH, MY WIFE'S BEST FRIEND), even musicals (YOU'RE MY EVERYTHING, A TICKET TO TOMAHAWK), to varying effectiveness, but as you stated, she excelled in more straighforward dramas. Edited by: Arturo on Dec 28, 2011 7:43 PM