Arturo
-
Posts
13,696 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
9
Posts posted by Arturo
-
-
The two remakes, in 1945 and 1962, were both color musicals. The original was not a musical and in Black and white. It starred two of the top boxoffice names of the time, Will Rogers and Janet Gaynor. Don't think it's been on Fox Movie Channel in awhile.
-
*I cite the Redford film and the Merchant Ivory titles as classics because again, they connote a level of fine craftsmanship that I think makes them truly classic.*
Recently, TCM aired Coppola's THE RAIN PEOPLE. Granted, it is no GODFATHER...but I think Shirley Knight's work in it is excellent, and *I would call it a classic, if a bit unpolished and amateurish in spots*.
There seems to be a contradiction here, as to what you feel is classic: "a level of fine craftmanship" and "a bit unpolished and amateurish".
Classic movies can be new or old, during the studio era and after. Of course everyone's definition of what is classic and what isn't will vary from person to person, so it's a no-win argument. What I most admire about the studio era films is that, at least for A productions, is that every department was working at the top of their game, with a level of fine craftmanship by all concerned. Whether a given movie is raised to the level of 'classic' has to do with other, often intangible odds or circumstances. Certainly, many (most?) movies today have competent craftspeople and artisans covering the bases, but since each production is an entity unto itself, that quality control exercised during the studio era is not there.
I do feel that the studio era had a higher ratio of 'classic' movies to non-classic than in the period since. Although production values and level of craftmanship have much to do with my moviegoing enjoyment, they have next to nothing to do with whether I view a given film as classic or not.
-
Thank you for stating the obvious. However, the more recent movies you mentioned are not necessarily new . . . they range from 20 years to over 30 years in age. I DO think they are "new', but many even here won't.
-
If I'm not mistaken, TCM showed this about a month or two ago.
-
*Ah, but THAT'S just the point here, Arturo. Even the director Hitchcock had misgivings about his creation, and thus one might say his own opinion was less than "beloved" for it.*
Well MY point is that, so Hitch felt the ending unsatisfactory due to compromise, doesn't mean I think that it should be remade. If it's not perfect 100% of the time, I'll happily settle for the 95%. It works well enough, and I like almost everything about it. Why would I wish to see a new version, even with an ending true to the novel?! Not at all, seeing as I don't care for remakes of classics.
-
And the beautiful Doheny Campus of Mt. St. Mary's College in downtown LA, where my mother worked cleaning the beautiful 1890s mansions when I was a child.
Doheny's name is also remembered in México, since he made a great deal of his fortune in the oilfields of Tampico and environs, under some murky business and landowning deals.
-
*Speaking of tragedies, I had to sit through an Arnold Swarzeneggar movie once. Now THAT was a tragedy.*
Not nearly as tragic as the State of California having to sit through some seven years of Shwarzenneggar's role as Governator. Now THAT really WAS a tragedy.
-
*Why do you believe any remake would have an unhappy ending?*
I wasn't trying to be literal, but clever, with my "unhappy ending", i.e. my view that a remake of any beloved classic is an unhappy occurrence.
-
*He might have had the world's deepest voice.*
Silly me. As a kid, I thought he did "The So-ou-uu-ll Train" falsetto. -
Back in the early years of this century, Fox Movie Channel used to do something that irritated me. At the end of one of their classic era movies, they would put all the 20th logos over the years, one after another, including a CGI effects one for this century. However, when the movies started ending an IMMEDIATELY went into a commercial, without a logo of any sort, I knew that the channel was changing, as they deemphasized their older movies and original programming. At that point I wished for the montage of logos.
-
*I'm responding to your assertion that in the 2 movies you cited the producers made some kind of mistake by not giving Marilyn a 'worthy' (your word) pair-up.*
*I'm saying that it was either brilliant or a very, very fortunate accident*
I had to go back to my original post to figure why I said what I said and how I said it (follow me?). Anyway, I was countering a claim that 20th gave their leading ladies in the "three in search of a husband" theme "hotter" leading men than MGM would have, and pointed out a couple of men that Marilyn had as her leading men. My characterization of them as "less-"worthy was an unfortunate choice of words on my part.
Additionally, I hold that it was a "very, very fortunate accident", and not "brilliance" on the studio's part, if the choice of 'average' men helped in making and keeping her the beloved icon that she has been. As I stated, in her pre-stardom days, she was just a spectacular blonde that Zanuck and other producers thought was someone's mistress with no talent beyond her filling out a tight gown or bathing suit. When she caused a stir with exhibitors meeting at Fox in the Spring of 1951, Zanuck ordered that she be given featured parts in movies coming down the assembly line, where apppropriate. The men cast around her either had already been cast, or were cast from a list of who was available, NOT who would make the average Joe love her more because they thought they might have a chance.
Actually, I think it was the (mis-) treatment that Marilyn received at the hand of the real-life men in her life, whether husbands, studio heads, producers, etc. that has helped her become so beloved for so long, rather than who her leading men were.
-
I have a strong Suspicion that any remake of a classic-era classic is gonna have an unhappy ending, whichever actual ending is used (especially when the plot has since been reworked, revamped, redone in many permutations, as Fred mentioned).
-
Here's a guess. It's probably wrong because it's not a Western nor is it sung in a saloon. Rather it's the 1947 version of the campus musical GOOD NEWS. Joan McCracken and a cast of dozens sing and dance to "Pass the Peace Pipe", in which many native American tribal names are in the lyrics.
-
If I remember correctly, beautiful Barbara Bates committed suicide sometime in the 60s. Also, much later-in the early 80s methinks, up and coming TV/movie actor Jon Erik Hexum (or somthing along those lines) accidentally killed himself playing Russian Roulette.
-
*That's why it's brilliant that they knew to have her fall for the average looker so early on.*
Well it was pure coincidence, not brilliance nor calculation. Early on she had Cary Grant among others, but the studio was just tossing their sexy blonde into any part that could use a sexy blonde.
*And then there's Tom Ewell for us average lookers to identify with again. Wonderful, lasting stuff.*
The Average American male getting the gorgeous blonde WAS the premise of THE SEVEN YEAR ITCH, and the studio wisely used Ewell from the Broadway cast. But then came Don Murray, Yves Montand and Dean Martin, none of them all that average, and away from Fox, (aging) male icons Laurence Olivier and Clark Gable.
-
That's on the new (movie), commercials added portion (which even has a new name), not the early morning Fox Movie Channel (commercial free); it's like two entities. Wish the new one will be spun off into its own channel, and leave FMC to the classics with no commercial interuptions. But most likely, FMC will soon fold into the new format.
-
*Those actors are representative of Marilyn's real-life choices. She didn't marry pretty boys.*
Yes but nobody knew that in 1952-53, when these movies were made. She had only one marriage to her name, which was over soon after WW2. No one knew what he looked like.
Conversely, movies like NIAGARA and RIVER OF NO RETURN have Marilyn between a decent looking husband and good looking boyfriend (or vice versa). So I don't think that the studio thought that by giving her plain looking partners Mr. Average American would be sucked in to thinking they too had a chance with her, since for every film where this was the case, there's another where it's not.
-
Here's one no one has mentioned. Persis Khambatta, or for men, Yul Brynner. Maybe because, half a century notwithstanding, we seem to have the same hairstylist.
-
For those interested and able, FMC will have a showing of CLUNY BROWN tomorrow morning (early). Don't know the actual time, so check your listings.
-
*The thing I like about "The Pleasure Seekers" is that Fox gave the girls hotter guys than, say, MGM would have, who would have automatically cast Jim Hutton and George Hamilton probably.*
Maybe so in THE PLEASURE SEEKERS, but in an earlier incarnation of this perennial plot, HOW TO MARRY A MILLIONAIRE, Marilyn Monroe got David Wayne (!?). And what about her costar in GENTLEMEN PREFER BLONDES (Tommy Noonan). Could they have tried a little harder to pair her with someone worthy?
-
Good luck. Being that it was a Fox production, they have many worthy titles in their vaults. Even with Bogie as star, it may never have an official release. The only way is maybe as a collection of Humphrey Bogart titles done at the studio; a few years ago 20th released boxsets of stars that did an occasional film on loan there (Cary Grant, Clark Gable, Bette Davis). Offhand, I can count three titles Bogart did at Fox: this one, UP THE RIVER, and THE LEFT HAND OF GOD-this seems to be the minimum number to rate a boxset.
PS - this film is sometimes shown on FMC.
-
*And the truth is that if Gable had had a choice (instead of being told by MGM), he would never have been in his most popular movies. If he had had the freedom to chose, he wouldn't have been in IT HAPPENED ONE NIGHT. He wouldn't have been in MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY. He wouldn't have been in GONE WITH THE WIND. He wouldn't have been a star.*
Well, if Gable had had a choice in the matter, he might not have made the above three movies. However, before he was consigned as punishment by MGM to go to the (then) poverty row studio Columbia in late 1933 for IHON, he was already a star of the first magnitude. He hit stardom in 1931-1932, and was already one of the Top Ten Boxoffice stars. So he was already a star. He might not be as well known today, but he would have most likely remained near the top at least through the 30s and his joining the service during WW2. He would most likely still have had the title "the King" conferred on him in the late 30s.
-
*Eventually these older actors died off, or were supplanted by other younger actors. Those that were in this group included the following:*
*John Wayne, Vivien Leigh, Orson Welles, Joseph Cotten, Dana Andrews, Greer Garson, Jean Arthur, Raymond Massey, Martha Scott, Robert Montgomery, Geraldine Fitzgerald, Walter Pidgeon, Jack Benny, Joel McCrea, Randolph Scott, Teresa Wright, Rosalind Russell, Ida Lupino, John Carradine, Roger Livesey, Jennifer Jones, Ingrid Bergman, Big Crosby, Fred MacMurray, Van Johnson, Ray Milland, Gene Kelly, Cornel Wilde, Donna Reed, Rex Harrison, Jane Wyman, Ronald Reagan, John Garfield, Lana Turner, Robert Mitchum, Anthony Quinn, Loretta Young, Dorothy McGuire, Joan Bennett, Betty Grable, Deborah Kerr, Clifton Webb, Broderick Crawford, Robert Ryan, Lee J. Cobb, David Niven, and Robert Young to name a few.*
Great post and not wanting to nitpick, but the following were stars (or leading players at the least), by the mid- to late-30s: Jean Arthur, Joel McCrea, Randolph Scott, Rosalind Russell, Bing Crosby, Fred MacMurray, Ray Milland, Loretta Young, Joan Bennett and Robert Young.
*And then the last wave of truly great stars to emerge from the Hollywood golden era of actors were the following:*
*Lauren Bacall, Rita Hayworth, Susan Hayword, Gregory Peck, Kirk Douglas, Ava Gardner, Monty Cliff, Marlon Brando, Burt Lancaster, Eliabeth Taylor, Audrey Hepburn, Janet Leigh, Frank Sinatra, William Holden, James Dean, Grace Kelly, Marilyn Monroe, Sophia Loren, Charlton Heston, Judy Holliday, Maureen O'Hara, Arthur Kennedy, Shelly Winters, Eleanor Parker, Karl Malden, José Ferrer, Alec Guiness, Shirley Booth, Julie Harris, Debbie Reynolds, Richard Burton, Alan Ladd, Leslie Caron, Gloria Grahame, Doris Day, Jane Russell, Glenn Ford, James Mason, Eva Marie Saint, Ernest Borgnine, Lee Marvin, Yul Brenner, Rock Hudson, Sterling Hayden, Carroll Baker, Tony Curtis, Joanne Woodward, Paul Newman, Patricia Neal, Sidney Poitier, Shirley MacLaine, Kim Stanley, Jack Lemmon, and Laurence Harvey to name a few.*
Likewise, seeing as how the earlier paragraph concentrates on names that were big by the 40s, some of these should have been in that list, as they were stars, or at least established names, before WW2 was over: Lauren Bacall, Rita Hayworth, Frank sinatra, Maureen O'Hara, Alan Ladd. William Holden, Eleanor Partker, and Glenn Ford, while playing leads by the mid-40s, didn't really become big until later in the 40s.
-
*But our guide was very dismissive about anything suggesting ghosts. The gardens were the best part for me. But the lack of good personal reflections of the past were a disappointment. Not to say they didn't speak of Hearst, but it would have been more interesting than just a really big American Castle.*
I've been here several times over the decades. One time during the mid 1990s, I was on one of the tours, and the guide went on and on about how much they conserved and cherished the estate, and how much respect they had for the architect, Julia Morgan, and did everything in their power to preserve her legacy at San Simeón. Well, smartass that I've been known to be, asked the guide if the Hearst Corporation was so interested in respecting and preserving Julia Morgan's legacy, why where they so adamant about tearing down the Julia Morgan-designed Herald Examiner Bldg. (the Heral Examier was a defunct Hearst newspaper) in downtown Los Angeles, in order to turn it into a parking lot (this was a current controversy at that time here in LA). The guide stated she didn't know anything about that. I found myself explaining to some of the tourists in the group exactly what the controversy was about.
I don't remember how it got resolved, but I think it had something to do with the LA Conservancy (in one of the few battles where they didn't seem to get co-opted) forcing the city and state to honor the preservation of a designated historic landmark. In any event, it's still around and apparently successful in its adaptive reuse.
Why You'll Never See Bette's Greatest Performance on TCM
in Hot Topics
Posted
Bette thought she was too old (and not sexy enough) for the part; she thought that Warners should have cast Virginia Mayo instead. She also thought the story was made implausible because she felt what woman in her right mind would want to leave Joseph Cotton.
The last couple of times I've seen this campfest have been on the big screen, and many people obviously revelled in the mire of it all. Quite enjoyable.