Arturo
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Posts posted by Arturo
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*I agree with your take here that Muni lacked a persona. But to clarify, some of the other actors like Cagney and Grant did branch out of their persona (e.g. Cagney doing song and dance and in Footlight Parrade and Yankee Doodle very well), and Grant in the Hitchcock films (playing a real heal and cad in the two 40s films).*
*For one to branch out of their persona they first have to CREATE a persona and the actors you mentioned clearly did. Muni didn't do that. So your 2 cents is worth a lot.*
Stars back then usually had well-defined personas, or images. This is what their fans responded to and the studio system geared their product, to supply to the public movies featuring variations of a given star's persona; The star "vehicle" in a nutshell. Cagney's image was a kinetic ball of dynamo, Grant the debonair comedian with a tongue in cheek attitude, or whatever. Muni too had a persona, that of "GREAT Actor". Since the actor was notoriously reticent, if not downright hostile, towards publicity interviews, Muni's studio (WB) would issue publicity releases which stressed his persona, namely "Great Actor", along with his versatility in the roles he'd play. HE made sure that the role was in a prestigious production, AND approached it like a forerunner of a method actor, studying the part by sometimes "living" it, and questioning a director as to the meaning and/or reason for every line of his dialogue. This is what the public knew about him, and with such blockbusters as THE GOOD EARTH (on loan to MGM) and THE LIFE OF EMILE ZOLA, people knew what to expect; a "grand" performance from a "great" actor known to play all sorts of roles in prestige productions (sort of like Meryl Street in her 80s heyday). And this precisely is what has led him to be less well known today than some of his contemporaries.
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*Cluny , alas, is not on DVD, but can be seen (at least the last I checked) on youtube. It is also the best Jennifer Jones ever was in a film.*
And it's been on rather frequently on FMC the last few months.
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As Maltin (or his guest) mentioned last night in the intro, this film was done during the transition from silents to talkies, and some were done in both formats. Sometimes the silent versions were used for domestic theaters that weren't yet wired for sound, or they were made for foreign broadcast, where the title cards in the appropriate language were easily inserted. Apparently this is a rare copy of the silent version, but they were unsure of its provenance: was it made for German, or French, or....broadcast, they don't know.
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*It is obvious that Fontaine and Joyce Reynolds are not the same age, even though the make-up and costuming is supposed to make them both look like adolescents. Fontaine is definitely too old for this part, good as she is at conveying the character. Joan Leslie would've been more age-appropriate.*
*I think Errol Flynn would've been better than Charles Boyer, because he projects a confidence and arrogance that this role requires. Boyer is too charming, and this guy is supposed to be a stud and a slight cad with the ladies.*
I agree that Joan Leslie and Errol Flynn would have been better. Leslie was being groomed for big things by WB; she had just costarred in YANKEE DOODLE DANDY, playing Cagney's wife. However, the start of production was delayed. When it got going, Flynn was immersed in the statuatory rape allegations, and the studio thought better of teaming him with the still underage Leslie. She was then loaned to RKO to costar with Astaire in THE SKY'S THE LIMIT. Fontaine came on board through a fortuitous run-in with the director Edmond Goulding, where she let him know she YEARNED to play the role (ironically, also present was her then husband, Brian Aherne, who had starred in an earlier version). Fontaine's boss, David O. Selznick, used her desire to play the part as leverage to get her to do THIS ABOVE ALL at Fox, which she had been refusing on the grounds that the role was secondary.
In the matter of Boyer being "too charming", Errol Flynn should be listed in the dictionary as the first definition for this.
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*Are there any movies where she comes off with 'bravada' or 'in you face' kind of acting ...*
*a 'bad girl' so to speak ??*
*It would be interesting to know.*
In 1947's IVY she was a poisoning murderess.
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*I dont think George Sanders or Paul Muni get enough prompts. Especially Muni* . . .
George Sanders never quite made it to A list movie star. He was popular, respected and well liked, but his career consisted mostly of second leads (including MANY villains), or leads on B films. Whether he could have been a bigger star or not, he did grace us with many droll performances over the decades.
Paul Muni, on the other hand, was just about THE top Actor (with a Capital A) in the mid to late 1930s. He got the pick of the roles at Warners, in fact WB turned out many superb scripts in order to be chosen by Muni. . . Eddie G. Robinson, among others, inherited some meant for Muni. So he was a big star, but again, not as well known today as in his heyday.
Edited by: Arturo on Sep 28, 2011 5:50 PM -
*OMG? She turned down Elmer Gantry?? I never knew that. HUGE career mistake.*
I agree it was a big mistake. But she had won her Oscar "At Last!", was happily remarried, and was living in rural Georgia. So she turned down a number of roles, while in semi-retired bliss. But it boggles the mind, when you know what she turned down, that she would return to Hollywood (or go to England for I THANK A FOOL) for some of the sudsy stuff she did agree to do.
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*On another note, I wonder why they did vote Loy the Queen. Was she the biggest box office draw at that time?*
Loy WAS one of the top female personalities of that time, not only in the Top Ten boxoffice draws, but highly liked by the public at large.FYI, the haters here may find it interesting to note that in 1937, when this popularity contest voted Loy the Queen, the runner up was voted Loretta Young. -
*I definitely agree with you on the Hayward character's career. Why meet in the "back streets" to see a married man when you have your own career, money, name for yourself? You should have your pick of available men. I definitely think the woman having money takes away from the point of it all. In that sense, the 41 version works better. Then again, Hayward has a certain glamour to her (even though she looked the part in I WANT TO LIVE - I wonder if it has to do with it being shot in b&w) I don't know if she would have been believable as some blue collar woman with a sugar daddy. Wait, at 44, it wouldn't have worked.*
These movies are called "Soap Operas' for a reason, they're not supposed to make logical sense. Just pile on the misery, and if she is in glamorous surroundings, oh well. It kinda reminds me of Joan Crawford in DAISY KENYON, except that Joan Looked her age, and Susan didn't look too much older than her leading man.
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*another movie? Then there was Where Love Has Gone, Ada etc...Agree with several posters, this film needed a Douglas Sirk to put it over. Hayward did a whole series of films in this vein in the early 60s culminating with Helen Lawson in Valley of the Dolls (LOL) A lot of scenery chewing, but isnt that why we love her?*
*I forget the title of the Dark Victory remake. Was it I Thank A Fool? Or was that .......*
The title of the Dark Victory remake is STOLEN HOURS. As much as I like Susan Hayward, I don't really care for most of her 60s output (other than on a guilty pleasure level). . . Most are too campy and she can get out of control. And to think, she turned down the role done by Jean Simmons in ELMER GANTRY . . . -
*WHIRLPOOL is charming, as all Jean Arthur vehicles are.*
I agree that WHIRLPOOL is charming.
And I'll say that most Jean Arthur vehicles are (charming).
However, WHIRLPOOL was NOT a Jean Arthur vehicle. A vehicle implies that your home studio is providing you with a tailor-made showcase of your talents, image, whathaveyou, for the benefit of your fans. Jean Arthur had recently returned from two years on Broadway and other stage venues, where she had "learned her craft", after publicly "quitting" Hollywood to do same. She had done a couple of low budget and/or supporting roles since returning, when she was signed to do WHIRLPOOL. She won a long-term contract with Columbia due to her role in this. Within a year, she would score big with THE WHOLE TOWN'S TALKING, and in the latter half of the 30s and first half of the 40s, she was Columbia's Queen of the Lot, and as such, had vehicles specifically lined up for her. But when she signed for WHIRLPOOL, she was a little-known leading lady, with some well-regarded stage work directly behind her, and earlier, a rather unsuccessful movie attempt . . . so this movie most definitely cannot be considered a Jean Arthur vehicle.
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*How pathetic a person would be saying to his family and friends Did you see me in the movie, I'm there in the back holding a broom. I'll freeze frame it and zoom in.*
That would be me in a Tupac Shakur movie from 1997, GRIDLOCK. If I had a choice to have been on any movie, maybe an extra in QUEEN KELLY.
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*Do you think that when Lucy claimed to get the Gobloots from the hind legs of the Boo Shoo Bird, that was a euphemism?*
Yes . . . and we all know WHAT THEY REALLY MEANT when she had to have her "Zorch" removed. -
*We are all critics and we are all going to have our likes and dislikes. That is our right.*
*When I began to study Loretta Young's films more, I found to my surprise more reasons to dislike her. I am not going to say she was a lousy actress. But I don't like her. I am entitled not to like a certain actor or actress.*
Ok. This I can accept, you not liking her. But when you state that all she was concerned with was her wardrobe, then I feel you are only basing your opinion on her latter-day image (fostered by her TV show), and not from a wide range of her film work.
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*What I found was a bit pricey, and/or didn't look all that much like what the little Tramp would wear. I decided I'd visit all the Goodwill, Salvation Army, Hospice shops and put together my costume myself.*
You can't go wrong putting together your own costume by going to thrift stores. I do this every year (and rather successfully, from the compliments I get and contests I've won). My problem is I'm a last minute person for everything, so under the gun I HAVE to come up with something. Often what I'm looking for doesn't work out (I also tend to try to make my own mask/props-and these often don't come out right), and I see what's available at the thrift shop (I HATE shopping and can only go to one or two stores max). Last year, my choice of the Mad Hatter (the Johnny Depp version) worked out great: I found everything at one thrift store, including an alternate costume-MegaMind. The prior year, my costume didn't come together (don't remember what I was aiming for) but at the last minute, I found all I needed to become an acceptable, if somewhat emaciated and rather glamorous, Susan Boyle (wig, dress, accessories, everything for about $10.00).
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*In fact, I live in the Texas panhandle (about as far removed culturally, if not geographically, from NYC as possible).*
This reminded me of Cary Grant in THE AWFUL TRUTH, the scene where ex-wife Irene Dunne and her soon to be new husband Ralph Bellamy inform Grant that they'll be moving to Oklamhoma City. "Not Oklahoma City itself!?" "And if it should ever get dull, you can head over to Tulsa for the weekend!"
Not really wanting to say anything bad about the Panhandle (I live in Southern California), but I've visited a friend who lives in a small town midway between Midland and Lubbock, and the distances between towns seem long and monotonous on the (mostly) flat terrain.
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I believe the name is Scottish, and reflects that area's celtic tongue's pronunciation.
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For a film contemporaneously done during the depths of the Depression (1933), tomorrow TCM will show A MAN'S CASTLE, where homeless Loretta Young shacks up with Spencer Tracy in his shack in a Hooverville-type settlement.
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*Bush . . . End: 7.3%*
*Obama: Start 7.8%*
So did the unemployment rate jump the minute power was transfered on Inauguration Day 2009?!?
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> "Loretta Young" and "howling with laughter" do not generally belong in the same paragraph.
*Exactly.*
For those here that like to gratuitously dis Loretta Young, or think she was untalented and only did, and was only ever interested in doing, glamorous clotheshorse roles: well, another side of her will be shown on TCM tomorrow morning/midday, when A MAN'S CASTLE with Spencer Tracy will be shown.
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TopBilled wrote:
NO MAN OF HER OWN was a Paramount release. Stanwyck was freelancing and doing multi-picture deals at various studios. *+*Kirk, meanwhile, was under contract at Paramount which is where he made films for many years.*
Arturo responded:
*As mentioned here by others, he was no longer playing weak characters by 1950, the year after he hit stardom in CHAMPION.*
*Actually, in 1950, Kirk was under contract to Warner Brothers, not Paramount, so that was another reason he most likely would not have done, or would have been unable to do, NO MAN OF HER OWN with Stanwyck.*
Sprocket Man added:
*Kirk had been offered the lead in SANDS OF IWO JIMA, but turned it down in order to do CHAMPION *(the part in SANDS then went, of course, to John Wayne, who later became a good friend of Kirk's), which he felt was moore challenging for an actor and a better showcase for his talents. He was right on both counts.
Actually the movie Kirk turned down to do the low-budget independent CHAMPION was the expensive MY FORBIDDEN PAST at MGM, where he would've costarred with Ava Gardner and Robert Mitchum (the role essayed by Melvyn Douglas). He turned down a $50,000 salary for $15,000 deferred (plus a percentage) against the advice of everyone but his gut feeling. The gamble paid off of course, as its success made him a star.
Sprocket Man:
*And Kirk was never under contract to any studio, Paramount or Warner Bros. At that stage of his career, his contract, non-exclusive and for a limited number of pictures, was with producer Hal Wallis, who was based at Paramount.*
When Kirk first arrived in Hollywood in 1945, he was placed under contract to Hal Wallis, then releasing through Paramount, this is true. It was NOT meant to be non-exclusive, althought Wallis WOULD allow him to take other film offers (and a Broadway role in 1946) since he wasn't keeping Kirk busy enough for Kirk. The contract was for five years.
After Kirk's second Wallis film I WALK ALONE in 1947, Wallis wanted to renegotiate it with Kirk, and make it the standard seven years. Between this and Kirk's salaray demands, it wasn't signed, AND at that point Kirk began to free-lance.
In 1949, after the word of mouth about Kirk's performance in CHAMPION, his agent DID negotiate a seven year contract for Kirk, for Warner Brothers. This contract did allow for one outside film yearly. Kirk signed it because he was eager to do two roles they mentioned to him: YOUNG MAN WITH A HORN and THE GLASS MENAGERIE. However after these films, he chafed at was being offered, not enthusiastic about doing ALONG THE GREAT DIVIDE, and turning others down. Finally, he agreed to do THE BIG TREES for free just to get out of the contract. While under contract at WB, he did do a couple of films at Paramount, but these were free-lance assignments, and he never had a mult-pic or long term contract with this studio.
Edited by: Arturo on Sep 11, 2011 10:18 PM
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> {quote:title=Swithin wrote:}{quote}Don't forget Old Mother Riley Meets the Vampire ...you get to see Hattie Jacques (later of Carry On fame) dance in this film, as Old Mother Riley sings, "I Lift Up My Finger and I Say Tweet Tweet," one of the oddest musical numbers in film history.
*Did you know that was a real song, and quite a hit in England in 1929? I have several 78's of it by British singers and bands. And it was even recorded by at least one American band.*
*You're right, it sure is an odd musical number in the Mother Riley movie. But it is one of my favorite parts of the film, so imagine my disappointment when many years ago in my continuing quest to find as many different copies as I could, to hopefully get one with the original titles & credits, I acquired a copy that turned out to have that musical number cut out!*
That title reminded me of a song Benny Hill did on his TV show . . . not sure of the name, but it could be "You Put Your Finger In YOur Ear And Go Ting-A-Ling-A-Loo" If so I'll feel like Alice Brady in MY MAN GODFREY when she remarks to Mischa Auer about "Ochichornia" (or however it's spelled), and how it's easy to remember the words when the title and lyrics are the same, as opposed to the "Star Bangled Banner". -
*I like violence, language and nudity in movies. Or not. I just like all kinds of movies. The more kinds that TCM shows, the better I like it.*
There are plenty of other channels, from premium cable channels HBO, Showtime, etc. to more niche channels such as Sundance or IFC that can play this stuff. I don't feel that TCM should show EVERYTHING, but focus on classic films of the past.Yes I know the can of worms this can open up, but while I was able to dispense with recording anything from last night, I worry about the drift: I have just three words for you (letters actually): AMC! It's happened before. -
*However, here's another "general" thought here...I'll bet many of the pre-Hayes Code movies have or have had alternate titles at one time or another.*
I can think of one Code era film that was forced to change its title . . . GOOD GIRLS GO TO PARIS was originally called GOOD GIRLS GO TO PARIS TOO.
I believe AN AMERICAN TRAJEDY could not be remade using that title; thus A PLACE IN THE SUN.
Don't remember the exact order, but either the title RAIN or SADIE THOMPSON was forbidden by the Hays Office; not clear on which version it was taboo (another junior moment).
Likewise, other notorious stage successes could not be filmed with the original title. One of these was CHICAGO; which is why, though it was filmed in the 1920s, it was remade in 1942 as ROXIE HART. The same is true with Mae West's DIAMOND LIL, which couldn't be filmed with that title, and came out as NIGHT AFTER NIGHT.
And the original filmed version of THE CHILDREN'S HOUR had to be called THESE THREE, and the lesbian theme omitted.
If I remember correctly, SANCTUARY is another, and so it was made first as THE STORY OF TEMPLE DRAKE.
The Breen office wanted 20th Century Fox to change the name of their proposed racy epic to anything other than FOREVER AMBER, but Zanuck countered that "without that title we got nothing".
Not only were American movies often named differently in Britain (to say nothing about how the titles were translated into other languages), but British movies often had other names in America.
Edited by: Arturo on Sep 6, 2011 5:14 PM
Edited by: Arturo on Sep 6, 2011 5:17 PM
They Drive By Night, STARRING JAMES CAGNEY
in General Discussions
Posted
*And yet, much as I love this film, I wish it had been Jimmy Cagney instead of Raft. Just think of it, at a time when Cagney was in his prime, at the peak of his powers (a year after Roaring Twenties and the year before Strawberry Blonde). He and Sheridan were ALWAYS a great team (one of the great teams of the movies that noone seems to celebrate*
I remember reading years ago the writer's appreciation (David Shipman?) for the teaming of Cagney and Sheridan . . . something to the effect that Cagney and Sheridan did it first (before Bogart and Bacall). Too bad Ann decided to go on suspension for more money (and honeymoon with George Brent) for several months in 1941, and thereby missed out on again costarring with Jimmy in THE STRAWBERRY BLONDE. The studio borrowed Rita Hayworth, who benefitted greatly from this and another loanout, BLOOD AND SAND. These ensured her stardom, which would soon overtake that of the the Oomph Girl's as one of the iconic pinups (and THE 40s Love Goddess). As much as I enjoy Rita in TSB, Ann would have added her own pizzazz as well as that great chemistry she had with Cagney.