Arturo
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Posts posted by Arturo
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finance wrote:
*What exactly is a "programmer"?*
A programmer is an A Picture, but unpretentious and tending to the lower end of the A picture budget range. They were the studio's bread and butter films, as they were relatively inexpensive and usually made back their cost; and were often paired with a B film as the upper half of a double bill. Stars were often assigned programmers, especially those that were in several movies yearly, since the studio often wouldn't and/or couldn't make each film vehicle an expensive prestige production.
There is nothing wrong with (being in) programmers per se, but when you have been getting top-budgetted prestigious films, and then are relegated to programmers only, then it can be surmised that your career trajectory has taken a downward curve.
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*Arturo, where did you get the idea that Mrs. Miniver "kept the masses away?" It did better business the year it came out than the same year's Yankee Doodle Dandy.*
I NEVER said that. I was commenting to TopBilled, who was discussing MOURNING BECOMES ELECTRA. -
And let's not forget Frank Capra and Stanwyck in the early 30s, and the later MEET JOHN DOE.
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*For me, the most forgotten major female star is Irene Dunne. That name draws blanks today. And compared to Garson (or just about any other major female star of the 1930s and 40s) she was enormously versatile*
If Irene Dunne is not up there (where she should be) for modern audiences, she is still better known now to audiences in general than is Garson. That is especially because of the several costarring comedies with Cary Grant (they were sublime together), but also because of her protrayals in the original versions of SHOW BOAT, LOVE AFFAIR, and ANNA AND THE KING OF SIAM.
*I think it's because she didn't create a "persona" like Davis or Hepburn; wasn't controversial like Crawford or Garland; and wasn't a critic's darling.*
Actually, she was loved by critics, at least in her comedy technique.
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*Some of her post-war pictures at MGM were notable...we would need to look at the box office returns and critics' reviews to accurately say which ones were flops. But again, if she had too many flops, MGM would've dropped her.*
Greer Garson had a postwar hit teamed with Gable just back from the war, ADVENTURE, IF you just go by the grosses. However, the team had no chemistry, the reviews were poor, and it started the beginning of Garson's slide. Her next film was an out and out disaster, DESIRE ME, which had script, cast and director problems, and went out with no director credited. It was a resounding flop, and Greer, who had been near the top of the lists of boxoffice champs for several years, slipped out of them once and for all. The studio tried to lighten her image with a screwy comedy, JULIA MISBEHAVES, but while popular, did her more harm than good; her public failed to buy her in this image. By the end of the decade, the best MGM could do was to resurrect them Minivers, but it flopped; the moment had passed, as had hers.
Sure in the 50s, she did some films that were good, and some that made money, and some that were both, but she was far from being the Queen of the Lot at MGM that she had been during the war years. She never had the type of collossal hit that ALL of her movies were during the first half of the 1940s, and CAMPOBELLO excepted, the consecutive oscar nominations were well in the past. And THIS more than anything, is why her name has gone into eclipse, vis a vis someone like Bette Davis, for modern audiences-her reign at the TOP was quite short
*It is interesting to note that they did drop Lucille Ball after the war. They kept Greer for 14 years and only had Lucy for 4 years.*
Well, MGM had a much more vested interest in Garson. Lucy was never a major movie star at MGM. They did give her important leads in late 1942 and 1943, but she didn't catch on in a big way (or at least not to MGMs satisfaction), so shortly after that, the studio tossed her into programmers, comedic second leads, or had her sitting in her dressing room.
*Lucy would bounce back with a multi-picture deal at Columbia and two hit films with pal Bob Hope for Paramount. Greer at this time was still working at MGM.*
Lucy would NOT bounce back definitively until TV. Her multi-pic deal at Columbia was quite a comedown from regal MGM, and her movies there were all programmers. Her Hope pictures were better, but they didn't lead to anything substantial, and Lucy, seeing the writing on the wall, left for the small screen and REAL stardom.
Edited by: Arturo on Jul 11, 2011 8:06 PM -
I appreciate it all right, I just think it's a long talkfest that kept the masses away, and went over the heads of some that did go see it. Word of mouth killed its chances of being a commercial success.
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*I love MRS. MINIVER and love Greer Garson in it. She is a one note actress but when she hits that one note so well as she does here. It's perfectly understandable to me. That film was so huge and important at the time.*
The US was barely a year into WW2, so this huge hit, which captured the mood of the country, was rewarded accordingly by the Academy that year.
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*I think Nichols does a superior job adapting ELECTRA. It was later re-filmed as a miniseries.*
*I don't get the impression their main goal was to win Oscars...rather it was to bring O'Neill to the masses.*
Except that the masses didn't go to see it. The reason being is that MOURING BECOMES ELECTRA is REALLY LONG AND DULL.
It is the type of films that the studios would do back then, *The Prestige Picture*, something more highbrow than their typical fare. Usually expensive, usually with impeccable literary credentials, usually cast with top names, and usually afforded the utmost care, they were done with the understanding that they might not make a nickel of profit, and in fact might take a blood bath. *The Prestige Picture* was aimed to score good will for the studio, from the critics, from highbrow urban audiences that were more partial to foreign films, and from those bemoaning the intellectual level of the bread and butter pictures. They were also meant to rack up a slew of nominations and awards, in the hopes that these would translate into boxoffice gold.
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I don't read imbd, Wikipedia, TCM or any other online database. But in the reading I HAVE done, I had never come across any comment that it was a (partial) remake of another movie. Maybe because I hadn't seen SECOND HONEYMOON in like decades, until it came out in the Ty Power Matinee Idol DVD set 2-3 years ago, whereas I was more familiar with SPRINGTIME...which was broadcast more often on FMC, and AMC before that . . . but at the least, the valet storyline hit me immediately last night while watching this.
Zanuck had a habit of utilizing bits and ideas from previous movies, without having a new pic be an out and out remake. The book 'Memo from Zanuck" shows him in action dictating same to underlings.
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Seeing the thread on ACTION IN ARABIA here made me remember something I had never noticed before last night. While watching the DVD I recorded from TCMs broadcast of SPRINGTIME IN THE ROCKIES two nights ago (wanted to hear RO comments, since I have this movie already), I realized that some plot elements were from an earlier Fox film; namely, the valet the protagonist acquires during a drunken spree, and transports to another location, which is where he becomes aware of said valet. This is right out of SECOND HONEYMOON (1937), a screwball comedy featuring Tyrone Power and Loretta Young. There, it is Stuart Ervin who plays the valet (named McTavish in both films); in SITR it is Edward Everett Horton.
I thought that was all that was taken from the earlier film. Although there are some similarities in a guy trying to get back the girl he lost (in one they're divorced and in the other, she leaves him to dance with another performer), I didn't think there was much similarity other than the valet storyline. But at the end, Osborne mentions that this is a remake of SECOND HONEYMOON. Maybe the technicolor dressing and the musical stars (Betty Grable, Carmen Miranda, etc.) threw me off.
Any thoughts?
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*Dorothy Arzner directed her partner Billie Burke in a few classics: CHRISTOPHER STRONG, CRAIG'S WIFE and THE BRIDE WORE RED.*
The difference here from all the others is that Burke was not the star or the leading lady, but a supporting player.
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When it comes to Classic (studio era) Hollywood films, I tend to not pay attention to reviewers who favor the Auteur viewpoint. I know they will give less merit to entertaining movies NOT made by one of the directors they favor, and I may just want a good competent entertaining movie: with stars and featured players I enjoy, and all departments working at the top of their game. I don't need someone telling me it's less than because someone else made it for a paycheck and had no "personal vision".
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*That's a good question. But I think it could potentially work against an actor. I don't think the Swedes were too happy when Ingrid defected to America. Then, she defected again to Italy. LOL*
Well, technically Ingrid Bergman didn't DEFECT to America; she was always able to return to her home country. She came to work in films here.
Likewise, she didn't DEFECT to Italy, but went to make a film there. That she became romantically involved and had a baby with her director (while married to another), and thereby raising the wrath and ire of Women's groups and others in the US, led her to stay away for a number of years. But she NEVER defected.
btw The Hollywood Foreign Press has always been behind the Golden Globes.
Edited by: Arturo on Jul 8, 2011 2:58 PM -
*I have to say that I re-watched NIGHT AFTER NIGHT. I just thoroughly enjoyed this film today, the entire cast is fabulous. West is definitely inserted for comic relief, but all the players, including her, are given some very good roles with excellent opportunities for characterization.*
After her illustrious and notorious Broadway career, West was not happy to make her debut in a secondary role. She was mollified by being allowed to rewrite her own dialogue, and THAT was the start of the Mae West legend on film.
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*Roman Holiday was Audrey Hepburn's first Hollywood appearance, and one for which she won an Oscar.*
*Her charm in that movie and the follow-up, Sabrina, has yet to be matched by anyone.*
I don't think it's Best HOLLYWOOD Screen Debut, but best debut, period. -
Spencer Tracy in UP THE RIVER
Katherine Hepburn in A BILL OF DIVORCEMENT
John Garfield in FOUR DAUGHTERS
Orson Welles in CITIZEN KANE
Montgomery Clift in THE SEARCH
Paul Douglas in A LETTER TO THREE WIVES
Marlon Brando in THE MEN
Edited by: Arturo on Jul 7, 2011 6:59 PM
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*I think the ones that bother me most are when he's unnecessarily negative. I don't think a negative review helps anyone. If he feels adversely about a movie, then he should just not review it, which would essentially be the same as giving it zero stars. Or, if he feels like giving something under two stars then he should offer suggestions for how it could've been better (sometimes he does this, but very seldom).*
It's called a Movie GUIDE, so he is trying to give us his views (or those of his staff) about the worth of a particular movie. If he thinks some movies are junk or subpar, then THAT is what he should be saying, NOT suggest how it could be better, and DEFINITELY NOT to not review it. He is trying to be fairly comprehensive (well his Classic Movie Guide leaves out the large majority of B films), so there is no need to NOT review a movie for that reason. He may seem harsh on a movie, but he is trying to honestly convey his opinion; whether we agree with him or not, he is doing his job. Obviously he has his biases and preferences, as do we all, so take them for what they're worth.
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*I wanted to add a bit more relevant information to this thread:*
*Keep in mind the Globes were first handed out in 1943. They have their own unique background/history and probably deserve a separate thread.*
I don't know if adding info on the Golden Globes is "a bit more relevant" to a thread about the Oscars, but it is interesting nonetheless.
I agree that the Globes deserve a separate thread.
**+At any rate, Paul Lukas was the first best actor recipient for his work in WATCH ON THE RHINE, and he also won the Oscar that year. In 1944, it did not go to Bing Crosby who won the Oscar for GOING MY WAY; instead, it was awarded to Alexander Knox for WILSON. In 1945, the same actor who won an Oscar also won a Golden Globe (Ray Milland for THE LOST WEEKEND). But in 1946, the Golden Globe for best actor did not go to Freddie March in THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES, but instead it was given to Greg Peck for THE YEARLING. The next three years-- '47, '48 and '49-- it again mirrored the Oscar wins (Ronald Colman for A DOUBLE LIFE; Laurence Olivier as HAMLET*
When you say that the Globe winners mirrored the Oscar winners, it sounds misleading. The Oscar winner would mirror the Globe winner, insofar as the Golden Globes, then and now, were given first, and served as a barometer of who might be the front-runner for the Oscar.
Edited by: Arturo on Jul 6, 2011 6:14 PM
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*Arturo, the way you walk is thorny, through no fault of your own, you don't perceive the greatness of Ouspenskaya!*
I never said anything re: her good or bad; I cut, pasted and bolded someone else's comments, in order to make a statement about Brennan. -
*How about another Category...overPRAISED by the academy. My first choice would be Maria Ouspenskaya. Her two nominations were both for roles in which she had one scene in the film. I know quality trumps quantity, but hell, she could have easily ended up on the cutting room floor both times.*
How about Walter Brennan? Don't remember which writer said:
*" __ nominations (*don't know how many he received*), 3 wins, one performance".*
His winning back in the day eventually caused the Academy to not have everyone vote for the main awards-it was felt that since Brennan had come from the ranks of the extras, that the extras voted for him en masse, hence the three closely spaced wins.
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In 1927, MGM changed the name of a John Gilbert/Greta Garbo costarring vehicle, based on Tolstoy's "Anna Karenina" to LOVE when they realized the marquee would read "Gilbert and Garbo in HEAT" (pretty accurate as per contemporary accounts).
Likewise, in 1953, MGM again (I think), substituted Nancy Olsen with Janet Leigh to costar with Van Johnson in CONFIDENTIALLY CONNIE, when they realized that the marquee would read "Olson and Johnson".
Can anyone think of other instances when a film title or player was changed due to how it would look up in lights? Or, conversely, when the studio DIDN'T make a change and had an inadvertently funny marquee?
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*I'LL BE SEEING YOU is good as a companion piece for SINCE YOU WENT AWAY. Temple and Cotten are used by Selznick in both productions. And it's interesting to compare Ginger's low-key approach with Claudette's slightly grander, somewhat more melodramatic style.*
Temple and Cotton were under contract to Selznick, so were featured in both films. Jennifer Jones, another of his contractees, and also in SYWA, was to have done the lead in IBSY. Offhand, I don't remember why she didn't do it, but Selznick, already smitten with her, was probably lining up something "more important", like CLUNY BROWN or DUEL IN THE SUN. -
I think that Ritter should have received her first nomination for her work in A LETTER TO THREE WIVES. Among a high powered cast, she is peerless. Her scene with Connie Gilchrist, Linda Darnell and Barbara Lawrence (and Paul Douglas eventually) in the "Finney Mansion" is hilarious.
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*she had plenty of good performances during the pre-code era, in Heroes For Sale, Born to Be Bad, Zoo in Budapest, and more than a few others.*
TAXI, A MAN'S CASTLE in the early 30s. THE STRANGER, CAUSE FOR ALARM in the late 40s, among others.
Best screen debuts
in General Discussions
Posted
finance wrote:
*I mean "stratosphere" just with regard to film. The masses are not generally familiar with an actor just from a Broadway role. Only a limited number of people have the opportunity to see a Broadway play, and especially before most people had television sets, familarity across the US could not spread that quickly.*
I had mentioned Brando in THE MEN because it fulfilled the request of this thread: namely, "Best Screen *Debuts*", NOT "Best Performance to Send One Into the Stratosphere", nor "Best First Starring Performance" disregarding bit parts, etc, and therefore NOT a Screen *Debut* , nor "Best First HOLLYWOOD Starring Performance", disregarding films made in other countries, and therefore NOT a Screen *Debut*.