voranis
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Posts posted by voranis
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Hey, I just thought of something else--when Floyd retired, did Emmett sign a lease with Howard? After all, last we heard before season 8, Howard owned the space Floyd was using for his barbershop...
Robbie
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>C. Bogle wrote:
>I always thought the diner was the little local Mayberry place that was pretty basic and Morrelli's was a fancier restaurant somewhere near Mayberry. At the diner people always seemed to be running into one another, quite often leading to one of Helen's jealousy fits. It does get confusing.
That was supposed to be the difference, but it seemed like the nicer place with the checked tablecloths and the fancy latticework behind the booth near the entrance was sometimes used as Morrelli's and sometimes used as the diner, whereas a plainer location was also used as the diner in earlier episodes.
>I remember that later dancing episode when Andy promises Opie he won't force him to go to the dance. Of course he ends up making him go anyway. Then Andy has to do a modern dance. He looked like a man running in place with a hotfoot, though Helen had no problem getting down.
I think Andy changed his mind about making Opie go to the dance after he saw that Opie's unwillingness to face this fear head on might cause him to miss out on some social opportunities with his friends, as he saw Sharon Porter (a nice character carried over from earlier seasons, with some name changes) and Johnny Paul Jason (also a nice carryover from earlier seasons, and formerly Little Ricky from I Love Lucy !) go off together while Opie is left alone kicking a can or something down the street. Andy did look like he was running in place with a hotfoot at the dance--that's a great description! Helen always looked like she was very modern and "hip" to the younger generation, more so than most of the rest of Mayberry, particularly in the episode where she puts on the school musical. BTW, she is directing a high school musical--is she still Opie's teacher, and is he in high school now? One might argue she is the teacher for all grades in such a small town, but in the "Three Wishes for Opie" episode it's established that she only teaches one grade at a time.
I'm not alone in my unease with her character. I've read numerous posts in other forums in which viewers felt Helen Crump was too difficult too often or was out of place in Mayberry, much as some felt Mayor Stoner didn't seem to fit in. I didn't feel she was out of place--after all, they established she moved there from Kansas. People can and do move to small Southern towns from other parts of the country, particularly if their work takes them there. I just thought she got too jealous too often At other times she was very nice, like when she stood by Andy when the rest of the town turned against him when he called Opie "out" as umpire during the baseball game.
The issue with Helen--and yes, Andy too--getting too jealous too often, reminds me of a little spoof TV Land once did of Leave It to Beaver in which they try to explain "scientifically" why Beaver never "learns his lesson." They show a photo with superimposed animation of information going in one ear and directly out the other. It really bugged me that Beaver lets his friends talk him into trouble over and over again. It was OK the first few times Larry Mondello did it, but when it kept happening over and over again, even with Gilbert and Richard doing it to him in the later grades near the end of the show, I got sick of the overused plot line. I still liked the other episodes, but I would usually skip watching the "friend talks Beaver into doing something he already knows he shouldn't do" episodes when they would air again on TV Land.
Some people have told me that they noticed that Andy seems grumpier or more irritable in the color episodes. I wasn't aware of it until they told me, and it does seem to me now that I'm looking for it that he is not the easygoing fellow he was in the earlier seasons. Also, Floyd was very easygoing in the earlier seasons (enjoying a banana while being held hostage, easily adapting to the female convicts' conventions: "If those burgers burn, Al, I won't be held responsible,"), but seems more irritable and calculating in later seasons: telling Goober "Fraud! I charge fraud"; trying to manipulate matters so a statue of his ancestor is made instead of Andy's. Did the writers explain at Mayberry Days why this change was made to these characters? Maybe they made the characters grumpier so conflict could evolve without the need for the grumpy Mayor Stoner...
>In the episode where Howard Sprague is introduced, Andy mentions that Howard went to high school with him and that even back then he sort of kept to himself and was a little eccentric. Some things don't change. It is funny on TV shows how some characters just seem to drop in all of a sudden.
Yeah, I was trying to remember why it looked odd that Howard dropped in all of sudden, and the points you mention about Andy having gone to school with him and Howard having kept to himself--which are in the famous matchmaking episode with Helen and the nurse, I believe, that we have been discussing a lot--make it seem unusual that Howard is suddenly in every episode and "one of the gang." These are the points I was trying to remember, but couldn't.
Another inconsistency: at the end of the third episode in season 7, "The Barbershop Quartet," Andy mentions the bowling league is coming up, and Howard says he's developing some kind of condition on his thumb and may not be able to play. Then in the second episode of season 8, "Howard, the Bowler", they are reluctant to let Howard join their team because even though they've never seen him play, they think he probably isn't a good bowler. Whereas in the barbershop quarter episode from season 7 it is implied Howard was at one time a member of the bowling team with Andy.
>I got a kick out of the episode where Jack Dodson played the insurance man who Andy called to file a claim for Aunt Bee's "missing" brooch. He thought Andy wanted to buy additional insurance. A claim? You want to file a claim? Gee, I guess I have a claim form in here somewhere.
I get a kick out of that episode too. That's the insurance game for you. It's the only business I know of where they look for technicalities to get out of providing the service you have been paying for. When you buy a loaf a bread at the store, after you have paid for it, they don't try to withhold the bread from you, saying things like, "well, this is Tuesday and purchases on Tuesdays are invalid" or "you didn't fill in this line correctly on this form when you signed up as a rewards customer at this store."
Robbie
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>Shemp wrote:
>The anniversary watch episode, "Barney's Physical," was from the 5th season. Howard McNear returned to the GRIFFITH SHOW during (approx.) last 1/3 of the 4th season, appearing in "Divorce Mountain Style," "The Rumor" (the only episode where he shared a scene with Jim Nabors, whose 'Gomer' character was originally introduced to fill the void created when McNear suffered his first stroke), and a couple other episodes.
That's interesting. IMDB lists four episodes he was in between his last episode before the stroke ("Convicts at Large") and "Barney's Physical." The four episodes were "Andy Saves Gomer," "Divorce, Mountain Style," "The Rumor," and "Back to Nature." A few years ago when TV Land was running TAGS more heavily than it does now, after "Convicts at Large" would air, I would begin watching for Floyd's return, and I don't remember seeing him in any of those episodes. The first one I would always see him in was "Barney's Physical." I wonder if his scenes in those episodes have been cut for commercials in syndication on TV Land. Do you remember what scenes he was in in those episodes? I guess I could check my DVDs, but I hate having to haul those out and wade through the commercials and FBI warnings.
I read somewhere that not only Gomer, but also the Darlings, Ernest T. Bass, Malcolm Meriwether, and maybe several other characters that I can't remember, were tried out to fill the void left by McNear after his stroke. Is there any truth to that?
>GRIFFITH wasn't the only show to accomdate Howard. Prior to his illness, McNear made some bit appearances on GUNSMOKE as the proprietor of the general store (he costarred on the 1950s radio show as 'Doc'). When he returned to work in 1964, GUNSMOKE brought him back a few more times. He stopped doing GUNSMOKE when Don Knotts left the GRIFFITH SHOW, and the 'Howard' and 'Goober' characters were given more screen time.
What did giving the Howard and Goober characters more screen time on TAGS have to do with McNear not doing any more episodes of Gunmoke? I saw him working in the general store on Gunsmoke in a few episodes (his character's name was Howard too), but I didn't realize any of them were after the stroke. In fact, I've seen some of these episodes on the Westerns channel recently and during the James Arness tribute. I remember Dabbs Greer, who had several roles on TAGS, playing store owner Mr. Jonas in the early days of Gunsmoke with Chester, and later Woodrow Chambliss, who was one of the butter and egg men as well as the owner of the organ sold to the church on TAGS, would play Mr. Lathrop running the store on Gunsmoke during some of the color years. Also, I believe Parley Baer (Mayor Stoner) played Chester in the radio version of Gunsmoke. Lots of interesting connections between those two shows.
>We never see a barber in Mayberry again, until the 3rd season episode of RFD "Hair", when Emmett decides to buy a toupee. Obviously, it wasn't the same barbershop storefront; in fact, that was the year RFD moved exterior shooting from Culver City's 40 Acres backlot, to the WB backlot in Burbank. The barber? Played by none other than Allan Melvin, in his 9th visit to Mayberry.
Gee, I really thought he guest-starred more often than that on TAGS. He played a bad guy in a lot of episodes and a good guy occasionally (Army recruiter, hotel detective). It seemed like in was in about three episodes a season. He only made eight appearances on TAGS?
>By late season 8, and the introduction of Ken Berry in "Sam For Town Council," it was implied that the town had reorganized its government, and no longer had a mayor; the head of the Town Council (Sam) was the defacto mayor. The portrayal of the Council and Sam during all 3 seasons of RFD supports that presumption.
What were the implications in "Sam for Town Council" or other episodes late in season 8 of TAGS that there was no longer a mayor and the town government had been reorganized? I haven't seen any but maybe they are in scenes that have been cut for syndication on TV Land.
Mayberry had a town council in the very first season and Mayor Pike seemed to be the head of it. It looked like Andy and Barney were on it, and sometimes Floyd or some of the town businessmen, and then Ellie Walker was elected. One time the actor who played Chester, who played checkers with Burt Mustin's character Jud, was on the town council. His character was usually the one trying to get Barney in trouble--like reminding Gomer in "Citizen's Arrest" that Barney had insulted him, trying to fuel the flames, or bringing the fact that the Governor's car was illegally parked to Barney's attention. Later his character's name would be Jase (like when Gomer quit working for Wally). I wish they would have kept the name the same--it would have added a nice bit of continuity. I think there was a continuity problem with Burt Mustin's character--didn't Andy and Aunt Bee both call him "Burt" in the episode "The Barbershop Quarter?" Not sure if that was intentional or not.
Speaking of continuity--the character who played bank guard Asa would play a veterinarian in the episode with the milk man's horse, and then he would play the doctor in the episode in which Andy gets sick. That was quite a career change. Speaking of the milk man, when Aunt Bee pretends to be courting the butter and egg man, at the end they switch to a different butter and egg man--just how big is this supposedly small town that they have so many butter and egg men and milk men?
Also, there was an episode in which Howard ran against Aunt Bee for town council. I don't believe I had ever seen this episode until a few years ago, even though I watched the show a lot as a kid, though I was never such a big fan of the show as to be an expert on it. I've talked to several other huge TAGS fans in recent years who said they'd never seen that episode until recently, either. What happened to Howard being on the town council? Was he still on it when Sam ran for town council, or was that plot point just dropped?
>The Mayor character was dropped for several reasons, per writers Jack Elinson and Harvey Bullock, who each were past guests at Mayberry Days in Mt. Airy NC. One, it was decided that the character was unnecessary to create conflict for Andy; the situations created by Barney, Gomer, Floyd, etc., served that function well. And budgetary reasons... salaries of the regular cast were going up, production inflation, and Jim Nabors was elevated to recurring costar status. Only so much screen time to go around to a fairly large cast for a 1/2-hour ensemble-format sitcom.
I never liked Stoner but I missed Mayor Pike after Dick Elliott died. I thought he added a nice dimension to the show. I don't agree with the writers that the mayor was an unnecessary character, any more than Goober or Floyd or some of the others. They seemed to rotate in plenty of characters like Clara, Tillie, Otis, Ernest T. Bass, Reverend Tucker (I like the way his character was still there in the very last season), etc., so I don't see why one more character could not have been in the rotation--just someone other than the grumpy Stoner. The budget didn't preclude rotating those characters in and out. One of the reasons I liked the show was the feeling that there was a whole town there, and the mayor helped flesh out the town, IMO.
Harvey Bullock wrote some of my favorite TAGS episodes, including my very favorite, "The Big House"--when you can pull off the same joke three times in a row (Barney letting the prisoners escape) and keep it fresh and funny every time, you're really good. Because he also wrote for Gomer Pyle, USMC, I used to wonder if he wrote the Navy episode in which Gomer keeps destroying the inflatable boat Carter and company were in, since that was a three-times-in-a-row joke. I loved seeing Gomer leap off the ship right through through the inflatable boat. As it turns out, he didn't write that one. And Bullock wrote other favorites of mine on TAGS like "The Loaded Goat" and "The Haunted House." He also wrote for The Jetsons as I have seen his name on quite a few of those episodes on Boomerang. There is someone I would loved to have met and asked him questions about the show, although it's too late now. I guess it must have been great to see him and Elinson at Mayberry Days. I have never been to Mayberry Days.
Robbie
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>Shemp wrote:
>Howard McNear retired for health reasons toward the end of season 7. As that season progressed, he began to suffer a series of minor strokes (on top of the debilitating stroke he suffered in the middle of the 3rd season). He was noticably slower in the episode "Floyd's Barbershop," and in the next episode "Goober's Contest" it was apparent to everyone that he could no longer continue.
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>McNear moved to the Motion Picture Home and Hospital in Woodland Hills, and died two years later in early 1969.
I read somewhere that he died after the last episode of season 7 was filmed ("Goober's Contest"). I didn't know he lived two years longer. Thanks for correcting that.
His face was very stiff and his speech very slurred in "Goober's Contest." At one point it seemed to me that George Lindsey, as he was talking to McNear, moved to the other side of the barber chair so McNear could read the prompts more easily as they were talking. I'm not sure if that's true or not; it was just an impression. It was very noticeable that someone else was driving Floyd's car when he drove away from the filling station. This episodes is always very sad for me to watch. Floyd seems to be out of character a bit when he immediately cries, "Fraud! I charge fraud." The character was so easygoing in the early episodes, and while he could get angry sometimes, he seemed a little too easily angered against Goober in this episode. Knowing it was his last episode always made this one hard for me to watch.
Rob Reiner was in that episode as one of the printers (and Jack Nicholson was in two episodes, I believe--the abandoned baby episode and the episode with Aunt Bee as juror). The man who had previously run the clothing shop where Opie got his suit was now running the print shop. I believe he was called Mr. Jason in one of the episodes in which he was running the men's clothing store.
I read that they always did such a good job of arranging scenes that most viewers were unaware of Howard McNear's limited mobility. I have been watching for it since the show began running on TV Land. I believe the first episode in which he returned was the one in which Barney gets the anniversary watch. There was a bit of fuddled dialogue when he says something and Barney says, "What?" and it seems like something went wrong with the dialogue there, but in all the confusion of the party, it fit right in. When they were all leaving, Floyd was already out the door, and kind of shuffled along with someone's hand on his shoulder, I think.
In the episode "Otis Sues the County," and in "The Barbershop Quartet," we see or hear Floyd at the front door of the courthouse. The scene shifts to Barney doing something (asking Floyd if he wants coffee, and we hear Floyd off-camera saying, "No thanks. I've had my cup") or Andy doing something with the prisoner that would later end up in the quartet, and when the camera returns to Floyd, he's already seated. Interestingly, in "Otis Sues the County," Floyd writes down an appointment for Barney's haircut on a piece of paper, but in most other episodes customers just come in and wait--first come, first served.
>Another inconsistency, ref: Emmett & Martha's residency... at first, it was said that Emmett ran his fix-it shop in Mt. Pilot, and then moved to Mayberry. Later, it was mentioned that he ran the shop out of his home garage, and the Clarks had always lived in Mayberry. An episode of RFD had he and Martha paying off their 20-year mortgage, and Emmett retiring (shortlived).
I was aware of the inconsistency that they moved from Mount Pilot vs. he had run the shop from his home garage. Either way, I doubt Martha Clark was formerly Mrs. Lukens who ran the dress shop before she married Emmett. :-) I didn't know about the RFD episode; I haven't seen that show in 30 years. I would love to see it.
There was usually a TV Repair Shop to the left of Floyd's Barber Shop. The TV Repair Shop was between the grocery store (Foley's sometimes) and Floyd's. I always thought it interesting that they had Emmett move into Floyd's when they could have developed it as Emmett having been running that TV Repair Shop all those years. The TV Repair Shop was gone when Emmett's character was brought in. I wonder where the new barber shop was in Mayberry after Emmett took over Floyd's?
Also strange that Howard seemed to have been county clerk for so many years but no mention of him until a new character was needed after Warren disappeared. A sheriff would probably interact with the county clerk a lot (at least, Andy sure did after they brought in Howard as a regular). And I wonder what happened to the mayor? I didn't like Parley Baer much as Mayor Stoner; he never really seemed to fit in. Dick Francis as Mayor Pike was hilarious to me--I loved the way his opinion drifted with the wind--or more accurately, with the last proposal on the town council. I remember him saying something like, "The only plaque Otis Campbell deserves is from the Distiller's Association of America."
Dick Francis was in the I Love Lucy episode with Bob Hope at the ball park. It cracked me up when he said, "You forgot my relish." I always thought the man probably could have read the phone book and it would have made me laugh.
>I didn't see it mentioned earlier (I apologize if I overlooked), but Mabel Albertson was Cloris Leachman's mother-in-law. There was a period of a couple years in the early 1980s when Cloris took a sabbatical from acting to care for Mabel, who was terminally ill with Alzheimers.
I didn't know that; very interesting.
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>C. Bogle wrote:
>I remember in one of the episodes with Flora, probably the one where the character was introduced, that at the end Goober came to Andy and complained that Flora was asking him to marry her. He wasn't quite ready for that. I think the writers likely didn't pay a whole lot of attention to the inconsistencies between episodes because they thought casual viewers wouldn't notice or if they did, it was no big deal. Now they they've been on the air all these years and there are books about the series, it's more noticeable.
Yeah, the writers didn't expect the episodes to be viewed on a daily basis the way they are now in syndication.
>I had forgotten about Emhardt being the Foster's polish man. In the bw episode Opie was hoping he would stay so Opie could have the chance to enjoy adventurous sleeping on the ironing board.
The Foster man was one of the two car breakdown episodes. Foster let Goober use his car phone.
>Wasn't Morrelli's also the location of all the troubles with Howard, Miss Fairchild, and Andy's "date" with Mrs. Sprague? I know it was often mentioned when the foursome of Andy, Helen, Barney, and Thelma Lou were thinking of eating out.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's the same location, yet sometimes it's called Morrelli's, and sometimes it's called the diner. Yet there is another location (the one in which Flora was first introduced) that is also called the diner.
The Morrelli's/diner hybrid location was also used when Andy, Helen, Goober, and the woman who looked like Mariette Harley but wasn't went out to dinner. I believe she was a relative, yet she was having problems with her boyfriend and there was some romantic tension between her and Andy that got Helen upset. They went to this location, and she didn't want to dance when Goober asked but then offered to teach Andy, because "teaching's different." Another inconsistency, since in this episode Andy didn't know how to dance, yet he and Barney took Helen and Thelma Lou to dances in many earlier episodes. And I don't think Andy was pretending not to know how so she would dance with him--I think the writers wrote it as him seriously not knowing how to dance, ignoring all the previous episodes in which they had gone dancing with no problems. There was a later episode with a school dance in which both Opie and Andy didn't know how to do the modern dances, but that was different because it was modern dancing. Andy had clearly demonstrated in earlier B&W episodes that he could do traditional dancing when he and Helen and Barney and Thelma Lou went out (such as the episode with Mary Grace and Gomer).
It was strange--Andy didn't want her to come visit, but Aunt Bee and Helen told him to be more courteous. Then they both jumped all over his case for "encouraging" this woman, yet I couldn't see where he ever did anything to lead her on. It was Helen and Aunt Bee that started the whole mess. This is why I always had problems with Helen and Aunt Bee.
>I'm guessing that escargot was never on the menu at Morrelli's.
Probably not. :-)
>I happened to catch an episode today on TV Land and Maude Prickett showed up as a neighbor when Opie was stuck between practicing the piano or playing football. Arnold took over until Andy came home and the jig was up. Arnold was finally good for something.
I saw that one too this weekend and thought of our discussion when I saw Maude Prickett playing the neighbor. I'm not sure if she was playing Mrs. Larch or not since Bee called her by her first name. I liked that the coach could play piano too, demonstrating that it was possible to pursue two interests at once. Also demonstrating that Andy was being completely unreasonable.
Here is another inconsistency--the next-door neighbors keep changing. Sometimes it is implied Clara lives next door, sometimes not, as in the episode in which Bee learns to drive because Andy can't drive her over to Clara's.
>I liked Otis too, especially during the many times when Barney tried to rehabilitate him and Otis usually got the better of Barn. It was especially funny when Barney tried to hypnotize him. O tis...O tis Campbell. The last episode I remember with Otis was when he took up tile art and produced a very funny likeness of a cow.
I think Warren got him on that kick. Warren was trying to rehabilitate Otis with arts and crafts. Warren wouldn't listen when they tried to tell him others like Barney and Aunt Bee had tried. Barney used to try to rehabilitate prisoners with that stuff, too. I remember the episode "Aunt Bee, the Warden" in which one of the prisoners made a passkey with the metalworking set Barney gave him. It was really funny when the first prisoner said, "I'll take the Mr. Potato set!"
Heck, supposedly Aunt Bee DID reform Otis in the episode "Aunt Bee the Warden" ("Bloody Mary!" "The Rock!") but apparently it didn't stick. Still, Warren had to try himself.
There were definitely later episodes with Otis, as there was one post-Warren in which Otis and Howard try to "rescue" Andy who is being held prisoner in a shack by two bad men.
I like when Barney was trying to get Otis to talk in his sleep. Otis told him to find the moonshine he had to up to Pennsylvania, over to Ohio, back through West Virginia, and back into North Carolina. The address of the still ended up being...Barney's address! A very funny scene.
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I hadn't heard about this before I turned on TCM tonight. I was in the computer room and the small TV in there is far away from my desk, and I had not had a chance to un-mute it yet, and when Robert Wagner first came on to do a commentary...I thought it was Robert Osborne at first! I remember thinking, "I don't know if I've ever seen Robert Osborne in a suit that color before." Then: "Wow, he looks very different tonight--is he ill?" Then I got up to go over to the TV and realized it was Robert Wagner! From a distance, they do look similar--at least, it fooled me for a minute.
Of course, I wish Mr. Osborne a nice rest and a speedy recovery. As great as Robert Wagner is, there's no true replacement for the affable Robert Osborne!
Robbie
P.S. Cross-posting here from another thread since I don't know which one I'm supposed to post to.
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I hadn't heard about this before I turned on TCM tonight. I was in the computer room and the small TV in there is far away from my desk, and I had not had a chance to un-mute it yet, and when Robert Wagner first came on to do a commentary...I thought it was Robert Osborne at first! I remember thinking, "I don't know if I've ever seen Robert Osborne in a suit that color before." Then: "Wow, he looks very different tonight--is he ill?" Then I got up to go over to the TV and realized it was Robert Wagner! From a distance, they do look similar--at least, it fooled me for a minute.
Of course, I wish Mr. Osborne a nice rest and a speedy recovery. As great as Robert Wagner is, there's no true replacement for the affable Robert Osborne!
Robbie
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>C. Bogle wrote:
>I guess just about every TV show has had continuity problems. Probably two of the best known ones on Andy were that in the first few episodes Barney was Andy's cousin. That was dropped very quickly. And Clara's last name was Johnson and then Edwards with no husband in sight. They are fun to notice. On one episode there was a schedule on the railway station that read Ashville. Of course it's spelled Asheville. I'm surprised Andy didn't catch that one.
And Clara's name was actually Bertha in the beginning. It went from Bertha Johnson to Clara Johnson to Clara Edwards.
Barney was mentioned as being Andy's cousin in the very first episode, and in a few others. Eventually they were just referred to as being friends in high school, and Barney was Opie's godfather. Although they could still have been cousins as well as being friends.
The distance from Mayberry to Raleigh kept changing quite a bit, too. It would be much farther if Mayberry is really Mount Airy, but even if this is not the case (as Andy Griffith continues to assert it is not), the distance still kept changing from episode to episode.
Every show has continuity problems, but it's fun to analyze them.
>Both Barney and Howard were lucky that Allan Melvin turned out to be a coward. In the second instance, Howard tried the same thing later with a customer who was bothering Millie and the guy gave him a punch in the stomach which doubled over Howie. As Andy explained, It doesn't work all the time.
I don't think Allan Melvin was a coward in the first one. He got thrown by Barney's martial arts teacher, pretending to be Barney. It was only in the second one that he backed down to Howard.
It was strange the guy was clearly harassing Millie and then punched Howard with the sheriff standing right there in plain sight. Even Clyde (Allan Melvin) was afraid to punch Howard while Andy was around.
>I think Helen looked better in the bw episodes with longer hair. She seemed to have that short haircut for a heck of a long time.
We finally agree on something about Helen! :-)
>Though he was nowhere as bad as Helen, Andy could be jealous too. There was the episode where the school curriculum director, who had about five advanced degrees, showed Opie how to throw a curve ball, and really was a know everything, was visiting and had to work late with Helen, thus messing up Andy's date with her. Then it was Andy's turn to have a fit with his remark Do you want to run with him or do you want to run with me. I think Charles Aidman played the role.
Again we agree! Andy could be unreasonably jealous, too. The doctor who was working closely with pharmacist Ellie Walker, which led Andy to propose prematurely to Ellie; Peggy's friend who showed up at the last minute when she and Andy were supposed to have a date (this led Barney to make the date with the fun girls in Mount Pilot), and of course, the teacher from Raleigh working with Helen. Andy had some nerve calling it "running with". A vulgar term, as Helen put it.
>Yes it didn't take much for Helen and Thelma Lou to get huffy. That was probably part of the plot mechanics, so that anytime a woman showed any interest in Andy or Barney, there was a built-in reaction. Thelma Lou did have a cozy little house. However she earned her money, I hope it was legal and above board.
She took over the moonshine business after the Morrison sisters got busted. :-) For celebrations, and special occasions! Sir Walter Raleigh Day, National Potato Week, Panama Canal Day, Bastille Day... From the episode "Alcohol and Old Lace", taken from the movie Arsenic and Old Lace. Thelma would later turn the business over to the Baldwin sisters on The Waltons.
Yeah, the women's jealousy was a plot contrivance, much as Darrin Stephens' anti-witchcraft policy on Bewitched was. Dick York used to complain about having Darrin written so that he came home yelling all the time and being bigoted against witches. The writers had decided they needed this as the basic plot device for the series. Still, it's fun to talk about the the disposition of Helen and Thelma Lou.
>Yeah, how about that Lydia. Her pulse rate must have been in the single digits. What a wallflower. She made Mary Grace look like a party girl.
A conversational dead weight, that Lydia. I knew someone like that once. A friend of mine put it best when he said you had to carry 100% of the conversation with her. People ran when they saw her coming.
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>Hibi wrote:
>LOL. I thought they were on more than that. Maybe it just seems like it. There was that one episode (maybe it's one already mentioned) Where the boys tell the girls they have to work late at the office, and the girls are walking by after seeing a movie and hear the girls whooping it up in there. Needless to say, there were NOT pleased!
The first one was the one at the restaurant in Mount Pilot. In the second one, the boys are working late and Barney goes to the diner to pick up dinner, and runs into the fun girls and brings them back to the office. They drive the girls back to Mount Pilot, but as they are getting into the car in front of the courthouse, Helen and Thelma Lou see them as they are leaving the movies.
In the third one, they arrest the fun girls for speeding. Andy leaves Barney to watch them while he tries to keep Helen and Thelma Lou busy with a movie and dinner, telling them Barney has to watch over some "prisoners" they booked at night. Helen and Thelma Lou talk Andy into stopping by the courthouse after dinner. Otis has let the fun girls out because they were in "his" cell, and Skippy and Barney keep turning the lights off and on. Andy comes in to try to get things straightened out, the fun girls try to make them dance, and Helen and Thelma Lou come in and catch them "whooping it up." So technically, the "working late" premise and the "whooping it up" incident were in different episodes. But the episodes are so similar it's hard to keep them straight--I just happened to have seem them about a million times on TV Land before it relegated the show to the weekends.
>I didnt know there was actually a Siler City!
There is also a Pilot Mountain in North Carolina.
>While we're on the subject, why did Jack Burns leave the show? Was he unhappy or was he just let go? I enjoyed his character (though not as much as Barney). I dont think he ever appeared on any reunion episodes. Wonder if there was some bad blood there? After that Andy went solo with no deputy.........
I heard the character was just dropped because it wasn't popular. No explanation was given on the show, which was strange, considering he was Floyd's nephew. Andy had no deputy except Goober filling in on a few occasions, and once when Goober, Howard, and Emmett all tried to fill in while Andy was sick.
It's telling that no permanent deputy was needed after Barney left. Did the crime rate go down in Mayberry after he left? :-)
One strange thing about Warren was that he was present when the Taylors left to go to Hollywood, but was strangely absent in the episode where they returned bearing gifts for their friends. He had not left the show at that point, because he was featured in subsequent episodes, but I thought it odd he was not included in the return show since he was in the send-off show.
Also interesting is that apparently Thelma Lou went to the same high school as Andy and Barney, since she was in the reunion episode in which Barney returns to Mayberry from Raleigh, but she was strangely absent in the first episode in which they have a high school reunion. In that episode, Barney is already dating Thelma Lou but she is nowhere to be found. Barney is worried about seeing his old high school "love" Ramona Wiley (who doesn't even remember him--she thinks he's the bartender). Her name is also very similar to that of a woman Ernest T. Bass would later be infatuated with. Barney is very down in the dumps at the end about Ramona not remembering him. Maybe Thelma Lou was out of town, but it's strange there's no mention of her at all in the episode. No one asked about her, Barney didn't say, "Well at least I've got o'l Thel"...nothing.
Robbie
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>Hibi wrote:
>LOL. Were those 2 blonde bimbos from Mt. Pilot? They would breeze into town occasionally and cause all kinds of problems for Barney and Andy (with Miss B- and Thelma Lou) Joyce Jameson played one of them. They were very funny..........Was it ever mentioned what sort of occupation Thelma Lou had? I dont remember it ever coming up, but I dont remember. She lived in a house so she must have had some income coming in, being single.......
Thelma Lou said in one episode that she had to get back to the office, but they never said what kind. She seemed to be doing very well, being single and renting or owning her own home. I also thought Thelma Lou was a lot more attractive than Helen. She sure had a lot of friends and relatives she was trying to set everyone up with. Mary Grace Canfield (and her character's name was Mary Grace) for Gomer, the conversational dead weight Lydia Crosswaithe for Andy (and later Goober became interested in Lydia), her skeet-shooting cousin Karen for Andy.
Betty Lynn, who played Thelma Lou, now lives in Mount Airy, NC, Andy Griffith's hometown and what many believe is the basis for Mayberry, although Andy Griffith continue to deny this. Frances Bavier, who played Aunt Bee, also moved to Siler City, NC (mentioned sometimes, although not as often as Mount Pilot, on the show) in her later years, spending the remainder of her life there.
In one of the later episodes with the fun girls, after Andy and Barney have explained to Miss B-. and Thelma Lou that they couldn't seem to shake off the fun girls, they all go to Andy's house before a dance. Aunt Bee tries to warn Andy but before she can, the fun girls come out of the kitchen whooping it up. Helen and Thelma Lou stalk out in a huff. So did Helen and Thelma Lou think Andy and Barney invited the fun girls to his house and then would willingly bring Helen and Thelma Lou there? It seems to me at this point the presence of the fun girls at Andy's house would confirm the boys' story that the girls were being pushy and they couldn't seem get rid of them. Helen and Thelma Lou should have realized Andy and Barney were being too "gentlemanly," and they should have given the fun girls the heave-ho themselves. I guess Miss B-. and Thelma Lou were angry that the guys were being too wimpy although it certainly worked to their advantage when they wanted to walk all over them.
The fun girls appeared in three episodes. In the first, Andy was still dating Peggy; in the last two, he was dating Helen. Interestingly, in the first one, the tag (the part of the episode at the end before the closing credits) in which Barney accidentally spills the beans to Peggy about the fun girls while she is treating Andy's eye, is shown on TV Land, but is not included in the episode on the DVD set! Incredible.
I loved how Skippy kept calling Barney "Burney" and then when the guys try to get rid of them, the girls get mad and Skippy says, "Oh, shut up, Burney, just SHUT UP!" After the girls leave, Barney starts trying to blame Andy for the mess ("You know where you went wrong...") and Andy says, "Me?" and as he tries to explain it's not his fault, Barney keeps on blaming him and finally Andy interrupts and says, "Oh, shut up, Burney, just SHUT UP!"
In one of the episodes with the fun girls, Thelma Lou tells Barney if he'll just be honest with her, she'll believe him. So he tries to be honest, and she says, "That's a lie!" Given this behavior, it's understandable Andy and Barney were reluctant to tell Helen and/or Thelma Lou about the fun girls, the woman lawyer in Raleigh, or any other attractive woman they pass within 100 feet of.
Robbie
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>C. Bogle wrote:
>I'll come to the defense of Helen just a little bit. No doubt she was manipulative and had a very obvious green-eyed monster problem, but her general facade was usually nice so that it didn't seem all that bad. I have the same problem with some old movie stars. I can't remember if they are still alive or not. I did know Aneta Corsaut had passed on, though I didn't remember when. It has been quite a while.
I knew Aneta Corsaut had been dead for a long time. She did appear on Matlock, though, as did Betty Lynn. Betty Lynn played Matlock's secretary in some early episodes.
I didn't think Aneta Corsaut was all that attractive, especially in the color episodes. Her lipstick was too severe, for one thing. I thought she was more attractive in the B&W episodes. I don't know if this was because she had a different look then (in the first color episode in which Barney visits from Raleigh, he remarks to Andy that Helen had changed her hair), or that B&W made her makeup look less severe.
>The fun girls were from Mt. Pilot. Jean Carson played the other girl, the one with the deep voice who usually greeted Andy with a sultry Hi doll. When they were in town you knew Andy and "Burney" would get into trouble with their girls. In one episode Andy and Barney met them in a restaurant which I think was in Mt. Pilot. A boyfriend came by and Andy ended up with a black eye. Some fun.
The deep-voiced one (Daphne) always said, "Hello doll," and batted her eyes at Andy. Although the first thing she ever said was, "Let's go over to the Gigolo Club in Yancey; I hear they have a floor show there." The episode in the Mount Pilot restaurant is the first one in which they appeared. At that time Andy was still dating Peggy but they had had a fight. The boyfriend's name was Al. Daphne says she could have stayed home and watched that George Raft picture on television. Barney gets Andy there on the pretense that the restaurant is serving liquor illegally. In the barbershop quartet episode, Mount Pilot has its own sheriff, so why would Andy be investigating that? And in no other episode was it every mentioned that Andy needed to investigate anything in Mount Pilot, so this seemed to be a continuity problem.
The actress who played Daphne also played of the three escaped female convicts. Likewise, Reta Shaw (Aunt Hagatha from Bewitched ) played one of the three escaped convicts, but also played Barney's voice teacher, Eleanora Poultice. They reused actors a lot on the show. Allan Melvin probably guest-starred the most, usually as heavies, although occasionally as good guys (the army recruiter who rejected Ernest T. Bass, the house detective at the hotel in Raleigh, and I think he played a law officer once or twice). He also played a bully in two episodes: once, an employee at Foley's grocery store who is bullying Barney because he got a ticket for sweeping trash in the street, and again as an ex-boyfriend of Millie's who is bullying Howard. In both episodes, some trickery involving martial arts is used to scare away the bullies, although in somewhat different ways, since the first involved Barney's teacher pretending to be Barney, while in the latter episode, Howard pretends to know some martial arts. It is interesting they not only reused plots which were so similar, but also reused the same actor to play the bad guy.
>I'm pretty sure that was Whitney Blake as the pretty lady lawyer.
It was.
>I don't know exactly where the Howard almost got married episode occurred during the series. It may have been after Mabel Albertson was through playing Mrs. Sprague or else she was busy doing something else and she couldn't come back. It was rather funny that Mrs. Sprague was the one who ended up getting married.
As I said earlier in this thread, the episode in which Howard was going to get married occurred well before the episode in which his mother gets married. So Mabel Albertson was not through playing Mrs. Sprague, and Mrs. Sprague had not moved to Raleigh at that point.
The Mrs. Sprague wedding was rather sudden; it reminded me of Barney's landlady falling for the con man and planning to get married very quickly. Such hasty action didn't seem consistent with Mrs. Sprague's character. And she was actually able to move away from Howard and let loose the apron strings? Hard to believe.
>I believe TV Land showed the pilot for Beaver a number of years ago. If I remember correctly, Casey Adams played the role of Ward.
TV Land did air the original Leave It to Beaver pilot, as that's where I first saw it. I believe it was part of a TV Land marathon to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the show. The original pilot is also on the DVD release. Casey Adams did a terrible acting job as Ward. Barbara Billingsley and Jerry Mathers were the only actors from the original pilot to play their same roles in the regular run of the TV series. However, Diane Brewster and Richard Deacon were in the original pilot, but as different characters than they would play in the regular run.
Robbie
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>C. Bogle wrote:
>As you noted about Andy's remark about Howard and his mother's apron strings-very little slack, the same could be said about Howard and his wallet. Very little space for an opening. Let's splurge-have two pats of butter. And after Andy and Helen had gone along, Millie went ahead and ordered the works, probably costing more than the other three combined. Not a good sign. I also got a kick out of Howard's feathered hat-just what the premature nerd around town needs.
I think Millie ordered the lobster and champagne, or something like that. :-)
>From the episode about Helen trying to fix up Howard with Miss Fairchild came the minor revelation that Howard left his undershirt in his old office and forgot about it. Most un-Sprague like. Thank goodness Mama wasn't there to see that. That might have given her a real headache.
I also thought this was very un-Howard like. He said it took it off on warm day, but he seems the type who would never break a sweat, even in the dead heat of summer.
>I didn't remember that Andy had that second escargot incident with Darlene Mason. I thought it might have been with the pretty lady lawyer from Raleigh, who sent Helen into a ballistic jealousy fit, perhaps somewhat understandably in this case.
I don't know if it was understandable or not. Presumably she got jealous because he covered it up, but she and Thelma Lou acted just as angry when Andy and Barney tried to be up front about things (which they usually didn't, apparently with good reason). So I can understand Andy being nervous about an overreaction by "Miss B-."
BTW, I believe the lawyer in Raleigh was played by Whitney Blake, who was the mother on Hazel. I do think the lawyer was being a little too forward, but not enough for Helen to pitch one of her usual fits.
>I've read a bit about Joanna Moore's problems with alcohol and drugs, but don't remember the details. Just like the movies, there are usually at least two or more versions of everything in TV too. I thought she was the prettiest of Andy's girlfriends, and had a very charming personality, though those white gloves have gone the way of names like Cornelia. For whatever reason, Ellie never appealed to me much, so I didn't miss her after her early exit.
I thought Peggy and Ellie were both beautiful, charmingly, and friendly. Helen--not so much.
>Mrs. Rayburn had been around long enough to know all the tricks. I think Diane Brewster only played Miss Canfield for the first season, before she was replaced by Sue Randall as Miss Landers. Yes, Miss Landers. Every once in a while I'll spot Sue Randall as a guest star on a TV show from the period.
Yeah, I knew Landers replaced Canfield, but I wasn't sure which season the episode was in. As I said in a previous post within this thread, Principal Rayburn took over as teacher after both Canfield and Landers disappeared. It was Miss Canfield that Mrs. Rayburn was joking with, as the episode with the note was the first episode in the first season, "Beaver Gets 'Spelled." Also, the actress who played Miss Canfield played a secretary in the original Leave It to Beaver pilot. She was a secretary for the milk bottle company. Richard Deacon played her boss, although he would play Fred Rutherford in the series' regular run. There were also different actors for Ward and Wally. The actor for Ward was particularly bad in that performance; I'm glad Hugh Beaumont took over the role in the regular run.
Robbie
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>Hibi wrote:
>I liked both Joanna Moore and Elinor Donahue on the show. Not a big fan of Aneta. Part of it was the writing. She was a first class b-. Then they glammed her up and I liked her even less.....The pay was probably too low and the doctors/pharmacists left for greener pastures (LOL) They did go through a lot of them........Speaking of Aneta, her big screen claim to fame, THE BLOB was on Thurs night
I agree with you about Helen being a first class b-! I liked Joanna Moore and Elinor Donahue best.
I was telling someone once about all Helen's manipulations against Andy, and he cut me off and said, "She was a b-." I guess I'm not the only one who didn't care for her character. I'm sure the actress was a nice person.
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>ValentineXavier wrote:
>I definitely have nothing personal against you, or anything else against you. I'm very sorry it came across that way. I'll try to avoid that in the future.
OK, you didn't do anything wrong, so you have nothing to apologize for. It was just me being a little paranoid or overly sensitive. That's good--er, I think. ;-)
Also, don't let my apparent paranoia stop you from challenging me when I'm wrong or feeling free to disagree with me. I don't want to censor you in any way. I just wanted to make sure I hadn't done or said something before that offended you to the point that you had something personal against me. If I did, I apologize.
>Although it was not the case here, I do sometimes deliberately make nit picks, which I consider too absurd to be taken seriously, with the intention of being funny. I know people don't always get that, either.
Sometimes I can be a little dense or I take everything too seriously. I don't always get the joke. Sorry about that.
>Addendum:
>As to the Venezuela thing, you're not the only one I've tried to tweak like that. I have a tendency o stick up for the little guy, and when I perceive someone to be going a bit too far in dumping on group of people, I'm not afraid to challenge them. In another thread, someone made an all-inclusive, disparaging comment about Arabs, and I responded, making some uncomfortable with what I had to say. But, that grew off-topic, as has this, so I cut it out. Again, please. accept my apology. If you want to discuss it any more, please PM me, but I won't be online again until Tuesday.
No problem. I initially considered your challenge to me on the Venezuelan oil issue to be an attempt to correct some information. As I always like to get the truth on things, I enjoyed the discussion and learned a lot from it--the main thing being, it's difficult to trust the figures that are cited about where we get our oil because there are so many factors such as the type of oil, and also the figures are often based on what a country is claiming they have, so there's not always proven verification. I learned a lot from the discussion on the issue from you. I had no idea how complex the issue of oil statistics was until our discussion.
BTW, I was just going by what I learned on TV news, and to some extent, from Wikipedia, about where we get our oil, although Wikipedia seems to have some inconsistencies or contradictions within itself on this issue. I had no agenda against Venezuela and I don't consider them a "little guy." I try not to make judgments about certain countries being bigger or better than others. What does it mean to be bigger than another country? There are various criteria, such as population, land mass, wealth, military might, etc., that might be used to claim a country is "bigger" than another, but it's always struck me as arrogant for one country to talk about themselves being bigger or better than another in such terms. I've liked a lot of countries that are perceived as "smaller" by some of those criteria, because these countries all have something unique that make them "bigger" in some way, and I've never dismissed any country because it is generally perceived as "smaller." I don't know much about Venezuela (or geography in general, unfortunately--this is one of my weakest areas because I took a Western Civilization history class instead of geography for my high school requirement, leaving me knowing some about European geography but very little about the rest of the world geography), so I'm certainly not going to be making judgments on something I don't know much about. I am trying to learn more about world geography in recent years to make up for what I didn't get an opportunity to take in high school.
No need to PM, but I did want this to go into the public thread rather than PM since I need to set the record straight publicly by acknowledging that you didn't do anything wrong and I was being overly sensitive. Hope it didn't cause too much churn in the thread.
Back to summaries of the Drive-In Double Features, please! :-)
Robbie
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>ValentineXavier wrote:
>Didn't mean to be rude, I was just "summing up."
I'm just beginning to feel a little "picked on" by you, especially since near the end of our rather exhaustive discussion on Venezuelan oil you seemed to imply you were deliberately goading me to begin with. Since then I've noticed when I post you almost always find something to pick at. I haven't seen you being contrary with other posters the way you have with me. Several other posters in this thread had named the same films but you waited until I posted the names to start suggesting the films were "old hat." Am I just being paranoid, or do you have something personally against me?
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>ValentineXavier wrote:
>Unquestionably those are classics, and some of the best of the era, but I have seen them all many times. That is why I liked seeing other, rarely shown films, best. I'll add The Magnetic Monster to my list. I don't think I had seen it before. It had plenty of plot holes, and dubious science, but it had a great look - with the magnetic fields displays, the huge Canadian generator - and an edgy, raw feel to it.
Well, I thought the theme of this thread was which were our favorites, and those were my favorites, regardless of how many times I had seen them. I have seen most of them, including The Magnetic Monster, before, so the frequency of how many times I have seen the films does not change which ones were my favorites.
Robbie
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My favorites were Them!, The Thing from Another World, The Blob, and It! The Terror from Beyond Space. I just wish It! The Terror from Beyond Space had been scheduled earlier in the evening so Robert Osborne could have done commentary for it. It is one of my favorites and it was the only movie scheduled on the last night not to have any commentary, except Mr. Osborne's comment at the end of the previous film that the last film has been called the inspiration for Alien, something I already knew. There have been conflicting reports about whether it really was or not, which is why I expect RO only said it's been "called" the inspiration--the movies have a similar basic plot, and I once read that Ridley Scott said it was his inspiration for Alien, but I have not been able to find anything in recent years to confirm that he ever said that. I would liked to have heard RO talk more about this film. The screenwriter, Jerome Bixby, also wrote some of my favorite episodes of the original Star Trek.
I love the old style look inside the ship--the metal railings and stairs, the plain simple coffee cups on the trays, all similar in some respects to the original Star Trek (which had metal stairways that were used when the turbo elevators weren't working), but which became known in the later Star Trek series as a "retro" look, once described that way by Dax on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and also I think by Tom Paris in Star Trek: Voyager. I have to take a lot of flack from my friends, most of whom only know modern sci-fi, for liking a look that is today considered unrealistic for space ships.
I don't know why I like this look better; it may be because I grew up at a time when metal was considered sturdier than plastic and other composite materials, and I tend to think of it as being more appropriate for a ship that has to fly in space, even though I know today that some of these man-made materials are often stronger and lighter than metal, making for ships that can escape the gravity well of a planet more easily. The plastic look of ships in many modern sci-fi shows looks more unrealistic to me, but again, this is probably just an irrational bias I have from the era in which I grew up. I loved the metallic look of the Naboo royal starship in Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace.
Richard Carlson was in The Magnetic Monster and that reminds me of another Carlson movie, It Came from Outer Space, that I wish could have been included in the Drive-In Double Features lineup.
The Beginning of the End with Peter Graves and the giant locusts is a pretty good movie--well, at least, I liked it. A lot of the movies I like don't seem to be liked much by others, especially in these forums; I guess I just have poor taste when it comes to movies and TV.
Robbie
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>C. Bogle wrote:
>I haven't seen Bewitched in years, so I don't remember Mabel all that well on that program, but I do remember her as Mrs. Sprague. Maybe Howard slipped her a knockout drug in something from Millie's bakery so he and she could high-tail it to West Virginia for the planned marriage. That was a funny episode, despite the fact that the marriage had to be cancelled, which, in hindsight, was probably best for both parties. Howie even opened up the wallet on that one-Don't worry folks, the water and toothpicks are on me.
That episode did have some funny lines, like when Andy, realizing Howard doesn't want to spend a lot of money on dinner and suggests the fish cakes special. Howard says something about fish combining nutritional value with flavor at a modest price. Then they talk about loving rolls. Howard says, "I'm a roll man myself!" Nothing like those free rolls!
Having the marriage canceled did work out for the best as it opened the door for Sam and Millie to begin dating on Mayberry, R.F.D.
>They did have a probelm keeping county nurses on the show. Quite a turnover rate. Of course back in those days, that was one of the few jobs a woman was likely to have. Peggy was very pretty, and her daddy had lots of money too. I remember Andy had an escargot problem, which I think was repeated in one of the later shows. Maybe she was a bit glamorous for Mayberry. Helen could be manipulative and had a very obvious jealousy problem, but she did seem to fit in well as time went along.
When they were in Hollywood Andy tells actress Darlene Mason he's never had escargot but that he'll try anything once. This is a big change from his attitude in the fancy restaurant in Raleigh that Peggy took him to. I remember Peggy ordering a sazerac, "a sort of New Orleans drink." She was just so charming on the show, much as Tatum O'Neal was in some of her movie roles. She has that same sparkle in her eyes that her mother had. Joanna Moore had a lot of personal problems with drugs and alcohol, and that may have led to her departure from the show, rather than it being due to her being "too glamorous" for Mayberry. I have seen it reported both ways. I saw Moore in a movie role in the '70s and it looked like she had aged 20 years since doing The Andy Griffith Show, so I'm sure her personal problems were taking a toll. BTW, TCM just showed The Blob with Aneta Corsaut; Joanna Moore was in a lower-grade 50's horror film, Monster on the Campus.+
Regardless, I liked Peggy and Ellie much better than Helen.
> One of the lines I remember best was in that same episode when Helen tried to fix up Howard with Miss Fairchild, another county nurse. Howard was out of the office for some reason and Mrs. Sprague was alone with Andy and she said something to the effect, 'Well Andrew, Howard's work is different from yours, he has to use his mind.' Ouch. She really knew how to turn the knife when she wanted.
That was a great line; I remember it well. She used to deliver equally stinging barbs on Bewitched. Some were very subtle like that line, some were not subtle, like when she suggested to Serena that Endora used too much makeup and Arthur "drinks it up" a bit too much.
>Not that's it's earth shaking news...but Doris Packer played Mrs. Cornelia Rayburn. Not too many Cornelias out there anymore. She was good as the prinicpal. Firm and fair, but kind hearted and she knew to give a kid a break when necessary.
Yeah, I thought it was "Mrs. Rayburn". I only referred to her as "Principal Rayburn." She was firm, fair, and kind-hearted as you said, but she could also deliver a little bit of sarcasm every once in a while that I really liked, like when one of the teachers (Miss Canfield?) told her surely Beaver would have given his parents the note she sent home, and Mrs. Rayburn said, "You haven't been teaching long, have you?"
BTW, Doris Packer also played two characters on Dobie Gillis. In addition to playing Mrs. Osborne, she also played Mrs. Armitage. I just saw her on Dobie Gillis last night on MeTV.
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> misswonderly wrote:
> "Canada Day" is basically the equivalent of your "July 4th Independence Day" holiday - yes, our national holidays are just a few days apart ( just coincidence.)
> On July 1, 1867, the British North America Act was signed by Canada's then prime minister, John A. Macdonald. This tranformed Canada from simply a British colony to a country. However, it took many years for Canada to establish itself as a fully independent nation. I would say it is most definitely that now, don't let that royal visit from Kate and Will fool you.
misswonderly,
I know Canada is independent legislatively from Britain, but Wikipedia says Queen Elizabeth is still the monarch of Canada:
"Canada is a federal state that is governed as a parliamentary democracy and a constitutional monarchy with Queen Elizabeth II as its head of state."
"The monarchy has been headed since 6 February 1952 by Queen Elizabeth II, who as sovereign is shared equally with fifteen other countries within the Commonwealth of Nations, all being independent and the monarchy of each legally distinct."
"However, the Queen is the only member of the Royal Family with any constitutional role. While several powers are the sovereign's alone, because she lives predominantly in the United Kingdom, most of the royal governmental and ceremonial duties in Canada are carried out by the Queen's representative, the governor general. In each of Canada's provinces, the monarch is represented by a lieutenant governor, while the territories are not sovereign and thus do not have a viceroy."
"Per the Canadian constitution, the responsibilities of the sovereign and/or governor general include summoning and dismissing parliament, calling elections, and appointing governments. Further, Royal Assent and the royal sign-manual are required to enact laws, letters patent, and orders-in-council."
It seems that Queen Elizabeth still has some authority over Canada if her representative can summon and dismiss parliament, call elections, etc.
Is this information from Wikipedia incorrect? The idea of being an independent democracy, legislatively, while the executive branch is still a monarchy headed by the Queen, seem very complicated.
Robbie
P.S. Many of our comedians such as Mike Myers and our journalists such as Peter Jennings are originally from Canada.
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>RayFaiola wrote:
>And Doris Packer, who was on LEAVE IT TO BEAVER (as Miss Rayburn, the principle), THE MOTHERS-IN-LAW, THE NEW DICK VAN DYKE SHOW and THE GOVERNOR AND JJ.
Doris Packer was great. She played the principal on Leave It to Beaver, but she also took over as teacher (still as Principal Rayburn) toward the end when the previous teachers (Canfield and Landers) disappeared. She played the part with some gentle sarcasm which I really liked.
Robbie
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>C. Bogle wrote:
>Mabel was only in the first five or ten minutes of the episode.
>Howard was at home watching TV when she and her beau walked
>in and made the announcement that they were getting married.
>I think that was about it. Howard, Goober, Andy, Helen, and late
>comer Emmett. Maybe for Mayberry that was a big party.
>
>For whatever reason, Andy didn't jell with Elinor Donahue and she
>left after the first season. Then they put in a series of girlfriends
>who would appear for a few episodes, until Aneta Corsaut stayed
>around. Whoever came up with the name of Crump deserved a bonus.
That episode had a nice message. Howard refused to allow Emmett and his wife to come because it was going to be a "swinging singles" only party. The party was bombing and Emmett shows up at the end and livens things up with some great dances moves, proving that age, and/or being married, does not mean you are going to drag down a party. After watching some of his dance moves, I have enjoyed seeing Paul Hartman (Emmett) in some old movies, some on TCM.
Interestingly, in an earlier episode--definitely before the one in which she married and moved to Raleigh--Mrs. Sprague is absent when Howard is going to marry Millie in West Virginia. Howard, Millie, Andy, and Helen travel to West Virginia for the wedding, which ended up getting canceled...but where was Mrs. Sprague, who had previously been holding tight apron strings on Howard, with, as Andy once put it, "very little slack"?
I never cared much for Helen Crump; I don't know why. She was always using unfair tactics to try to compel Andy to do things he didn't feel were right--such as refusing to do anything with him unless he participated in playing matchmaker with Howard and the new county nurse.
I read that Joanna Moore (mother of Tatum O'Neal) was considered "too glamorous" for Mayberry, which is part of why they wrote her out. I really liked her as County Nurse Peggy. I also liked Elinor Donahue as Ellie Walker. They were my two favorites.
There was also County Nurse Mary. Mayberry sure went through a lot of nurses and doctors and pharmacists. The actor who played Asa the bank guard later played one of the town doctors when Goober thinks he has been injured! The doctor that arrived when Ellie was in Mayberry disappeared, as did Ellie and her pharmacist uncle. William Christopher (Father Mulcahy on MASH, also one of Gomer's pals on Gomer Pyle, USMC ) arrived in Mayberry in one of the later seasons as the new doctor, then he disappeared too. Robert F. Simon (one of the two actors who played Frank Stevens on Bewitched ) was the pharmacist in the episode in which Opie had the job at the drugstore.
I read that Andy Griffith didn't feel comfortable with any of the actresses playing his girlfriends until Aneta Corsaut came along.
Both Corsaut and Betty Lynn (Thelma Lou) appeared with Griffith on Matlock. I believe Lynn played his secretary in the early episodes.
Robbie
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> TikiSoo wrote:
> She will be Phyllis Stephens (Darrin's Mother) forever in my heart.
>
> I loved Bewitched as a kid, probably for the "magic" aspect. Rewatching these as an adult, I am enthralled by the incredible performances of the supporting cast; Agnes Moorhead, Dick York, David White and of course, Mabel Albertson.
>
> All Mabel had to do was add a teeny bit of whine to her lines to give it that perfect judgmental snarkiness. She was only in 18 episodes, but boy did she leave an impression. And when you put the 2 mother-in-laws together....!
"Frank, I'm getting another one of my sick headaches!" The episode in which she thinks Endora is trying to steal Frank away from her was a great one. Endora goes to her to try to straighten things out, which was unusually gracious of the normally diabolical Endora, but it still all goes awry.
Endora was my favorite character from Bewitched. I love watching Agnes Moorehead in old movies on TCM; she always lights up the screen. And I definitely liked Dick York better than Dick Sargent as Darrin on Bewitched. He had a wild-eyed look that was always funny, yet he didn't come of as being overly cynical the way Dick Sargent did. Dick Sargent's Darrin seemed to be in a perpetual bad mood with everyone (not just with Samantha's relatives). Ironically, I read that Sargent was Montgomery's first choice to play Darrin but he was unavailable at the time. Regardless, I still like York's portrayal better.
I believe Mabel Albertson feigned a headache or illness on The Andy Griffith Show to try to keep Howard from going out on a date.
She also was in a few B&W episodes of Gunsmoke. And Jack Albertson was in at least one of the color episodes, one with "Dirty Sally" (played by another veteran, Jeanette Nolan), and I think one other color episode in which he had been thrown out of another town.
She played Perry White's sister in The Adventures of Superman episode in which they go to Haiti. My favorite line of the entire series is from that episode, in which a guide is reluctant to take Clark Kent and company into the jungle to search for her:
Kent: Surely you don't believe in voodoo?
Guide: I believe in sharp knives and poison!
One of the few times that the very smart Clark Kent (played smart by George Reeves) got one-upped in dialogue on the show.
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For those who saw Scarlet Street recently on TCM and now want to see The Woman in the Window, it is airing on THIS TV on Friday, July 1, at 10:30 p.m. EDT.
Yes, I know THIS is not as good as TCM because it is not uncut or commercial-free, but I just wanted to mention it's being shown on THIS for those who are OK with it (and are able to get the channel).
Also, for Elizabeth Taylor fans who may not have been able to see it when it aired on FMC, THIS is also airing Cleopatra the same day--Friday, July 1, from 4 to 8 p.m. EDT.
Robbie
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> misswonderly wrote:
> Personally, I like Scarlet Street to which it is often compared, better, but Woman in the Window is still pretty darn good.
That's interesting--Leonard Maltin (or whoever writes his reviews) liked The Woman in the Window better, as this was what was in his review of Scarlet Street on the June 4 TCM online schedule page:
"Stars and director of THE WOMAN IN THE WINDOW keep it interesting, but don't match earlier film. "
To be clear, he (or whoever) is saying: the stars and director of The Woman in the Window keep it [Scarlet Street] interesting, but don't match earlier film [The Woman in the Window].
It's been so long since I've seen The Woman in the Window, I can't comment myself. I'd be curious to hear comparisons from more viewers on these movies.
Robbie
Two of the Best Musicals Ever Tonight !
in General Discussions
Posted
I used to see Meredith Wilson on a nightly basis on GSN when it was running the 1950's game show The Name's the Same. I really enjoyed him as a panelist on the show, although my favorite panelist was Joan Alexander. Wilson was very smart and had a fine, subtle sense of humor on the show, and it was always great when the contestant's name had some kind of musical connection and Wilson was doing the guessing. There was often a slightly heightened sense of excitement from the audience because they knew this was his field.
He was probably my second favorite panelist on the show after Joan Alexander. I was sorry when he left the show. His replacement Bill Stern was OK but since I don't know much about sports I liked Meredith Wilson a lot better.
Robbie