JackFavell

Swooning here, too, Frank, and this time it's not for Ford.... My heart was trembling as I walked to the computer. I took you out of my email and read you, right there...... Dear Friend.... I must agree with you, that Tom represents the working man and Ranse is the planner. I would go a step further and say that Tom is the past- the cowboy, the cattleman and the horseman, but Ranse is the future- the way America is today, with each man just owning a bit of land in a community, doing their little job. I guess this is pretty obvious, but I don't think anyone has said it yet! I agree with your asessment of Hallie's love for Ranse- it just makes sense that she loved him more. She spent all that time waiting for Donophon and although he was there for her physically, I mean, by doing little things for her and protecting her, he was lacking emotionally. In the one way that counted the most (marriage), he was not there for her. She must have thought he didn't love her enough to marry her. And I think she continued to think that after she left Shinbone. But as time went on, she began to find out how much he did love her, more than he ever showed. Regret, as you said. Tom was trapped in Shinbone as much as Hallie was, but by his reputation as "the Man". He (and the whole town) just assumed that any woman would wait for him to get done doing whatever it was that he was doing, and that then she would come running. But when Hallie leaves, NO, wait, it's when he shoots Liberty, his whole image of himself is changed (as is the town's) and he can no longer be "the Man". He has found his emotion, but with catastrophic results. It is too late. With one shot, Tom's whole reason for being becomes outmoded, obsolete. It almost wouldn't have mattered if Hallie left or stayed at that point. Ranse, on the other hand is all emotion, all thoughtfulness. He just can't act. He hasn't even made a "home" for Hallie. Ranse figures out that he must act, or he will lose Hallie forever. This hopeful sign is as close to a happy ending as we get. Now if you like weenie Fonda, why not weenie Stewart? Obviously you are completely a Donophon fan and care nothing for Ranse. I can understand that, there is something harder in Ranse's soul than in Tom's, when it comes right down to it. I see you picked my favorite shot from Ox-Bow Incident, the one where Morgan's hat blocks most of his face....

When you guys were talking about ELO, you reminded me of one of my favorite songs- I can remember running around my best friend's house screaming this song at age 8.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt6zYIYf-hk

Izcutter- Wow! That is perhaps the best description of Hallie I have ever read! You made me cry, on that last line. I never really paid attention, but older Ranse is quite a pompous blowhard! I am getting a mushy brain, and it is taking too long to write very obvious things so I will go off to bed now. Thanks for a very enjoyable discussion...

Izcutter- Oops! Sorry I didn't put in a spoiler alert! Thanks for reminding me- "(and probably participated in too much of it as well) " Very perceptive remark, there. In fact, all your comments on The Searchers seems to me to be right on the mark. ANOTHER SPOILER for The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance .****************************************** MissG has said previously that Ford liked to create back stories for his characters that might or might not come to the fore. At the end, something has happened. Something unspoken is there, as solid as a wall between Rance and Hallie. Does Hallie love Tom? Or does she love the memory of Tom as he might have been? What made Hallie change her mind over the years? Might it have been the lie that Rance didn't tell, but accepted the consequences of? Would she love Rance even to this day if he had told everyone that Tom Donophon killed Liberty? More questions at the end of the movie than at the beginning. I like that. Message was edited by: JackFavell

Two thoughts- SPOILER************************************************************************************************** You are right about Tom Donophon's dark side. The scene where he gets drunk and burns his cabin down is probably my favorite Wayne scene in any movie. There is a hatred, a disregard for his own and anyone else's life that is really scary. He truly frightens me when I watch it, and it's very clear to me why Hallie chose Rance (though I believe she comes to regret that decision - we don't know how deeply). I remember being shocked a few years ago watching The Oregon Trail because I suddenly realized what made Wayne a star- his body was so lithe and lanky, and the way he moved was beautiful. All these parts moving every which way, but somehow coming together. Pardon me for being blunt this way, but it just hit me like a ton of bricks! He really uses his body to great effect in the MWSLV scene. His shoulders give you more information than most actors could with their entire face. The only time we see Wayne weak and beaten- and his back is to the camera and he's in the dark (literally). Oh... what was the other thing I was going to say? Oh, yeah. The Searchers is weird. I really, really like it- it's better every time I see it, but I could not get into it until I hit middle age. I had to be a little seasoned to understand the movie at all. I've seen it all the way through twice now, so forgive me if I make wrong assumptions! It is a movie to watch many times to really comprehend it fully. I think the only real likable character in it is Martin Pawley. I think this is very deliberate on Ford's part. Message was edited by: JackFavell

I really like The Cranberries too! They sound so Celtic. I always feel the same as you, Butterscotch, like sweet cool air from the highlands is all around ... I really can't write here anymore, because we will be all over the place, from John Denver to Coleman Hawkins to XTC to Jimi Hendrix to Medeski Martin and Woods! I have no taste at all. I like to think I am eclectic, but really I just like everything...I would do better to tell what I DON'T like...

I think she scares people a little, her voice is so low. And she is British, so not so high profile here, maybe? I just love her though.

Gladys Knight is awesome. Her raggedy edged, smoky voice is one of my favorites, too. Mavis Staples of the Staple Singers is my favorite of that time period, though. As far as women's voices go, I like Nina Simone and Joan Armatrading, and you already know my love for Ella. Deep, powerful strong sounding women. Love it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLHwWrhN7DQ

Ninotchka: We don't have men like you in my country. Leon: Thank you. Ninotchka: That is why I believe in the future of my country. I love the way Garbo says "Little Father". I also love the unsung George Tobias in this movie. One of my favorite character actors.

Cinemaven- I was only kidding- I don't think anybody even saw Robards in those pics.....

Wowowowo! Hubba hubba. that picture of Burt makes my day! He looks so sensitive in that very expensive and perfectly tailored shirt .... That really does it for me.

I love Roberta Flack, and had her "Best of" album back when I was a kid. As a friend of mine says: Everybody likes the Carpenters, but not everyone will admit it. The early seventies was a great time for music as far as I am concerned, with a lot of folk music and singer songwriters coming to the fore. Again, I think of George Harrison, Cat Stevens, Harry Nilsson, James Taylor, Carly Simon, and Carole King, Paul Simon, etc. Fairport Convention and Yes are also favorites of mine.

Boy, Jason Robards is sexy....

I love the Beatles, George is my favorite, I love everything George ever did, I love the Beach Boys and the Monkees, and Peter Gabriel, including his early Genesis stuff. There are very few other bands that I like enough to listen to every song they ever made. The Band, maybe. Eighties pop, eh, Frank? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0A7dtdc-nU

Acckkk! My computer is going crazy.... Message was edited by: JackFavell

I would love to hear more of Hugh Laurie's piano playing- he seems quite an accomplished jazz pianist. He was also in Sense and Sensibility, which has some lovely music in it...

MissGoddess, you can find the Good Morning, Madam alarm clock here http://voco.uk.com/demo.php?version=gmm&country=UK for a ridiculously high price, but I imagine you might find it less expensive if you look around on the net. I had never heard of it, but my sister apparently got one for Valentine's day, lucky girl.... Nice choice of Butler! I like this one:

I'm sorry, ButterscotchGreer- here i go butting into your conversation about ballet, and then you can't even listen to the link I posted! The first one said: "Good morning, Madam. I've drawn a bath for you, the room has been scented, your breakfast is being prepared by cook, fresh flowers have been placed in all the reception rooms, and the water for yesterday's flowers has been changed. The house awaits your arrival, Madam." The second said: " Good morning, Madam. A gentleman calling himself Mr. Cruise wishes to talk to you. He is looking for someone to accompany him to something called the Oscars ceremony this year. He has banged his somewhat obtrusive nose on the door I fear..."

It was Stephen Fry, the actor, writer and butler extroardinaire- namely Jeeves. He has lent his voice to a new alarm clock called Good Morning, Madam. http://voco.uk.com/gmm/d07.mp3

ButterscotchGreer and Miss Goddess- in order to serve tea to Mr. and Mrs. Darcy, you must have an impeccable butler.... http://voco.uk.com/gmm/d08.mp3

I have to say that Grace Kelly is also one of my least favorite actresses.... Message was edited by: JackFavell

I am so jealous of all of you, who get to see movies on the big screen. I have only seen a few old movies that way, thanks to The Majestic Theatre in Madison, Wisconsin (I was in college there), and The Garde Theatre in New London, Ct. I've seen Casablanca, and Captain Blood, but my favorite was the week of Billy Wilder movies- Sunset Boulevard is soooo sensationally BIG and creepy on a large screen. I still remember the audience collectively sucking in it's breath when Gloria Swanson said, "There's nothing else - just us - and the cameras - and those wonderful people out there in the dark. All right, Mr. De Mille, I'm ready for my close-up." and she came right out into the audience.....

I too, chose to list the five films that influenced me, rather than films that I think are important to the world. 1. The Marx Bros.- I don't know which movie I saw first, I think it was Room Service (which makes me wonder why I ever watched another), but the Marx Brothers were my first entry into the world of old movies. They taught me that there are rules that need to be broken. Very subversive stuff for a little kid to see.... 2. Oliver- A huge movie experience, at age eight with my mom. I fell in love with the Artful Dodger and British film and literature. The movie just envelops you with music and color. Michael Powell said that Carol Reed "could put a film together like a watchmaker puts together a watch". And Graham Greene said of him, "The only director with that particular warmth of human sympathy....". 3. Paper Moon- Another movie seen with my mom. Bogdanovich combines old movie making skills with a new sense of gritty reality. He mixes comedy and drama in a flawless, very modern way. This along with "What's Up, Doc?" and "Oliver" are my great childhood movie experiences. 4.The Grapes of Wrath- I saw this when I was maybe ten or twelve, and realized for the first time that there were people struggling just to put food on the table. Ford literally transmitted his sense of humanity to me. 5. A Streetcar Named Desire- Wow. It was like a punch in the jaw. Psychology, and a brand new style of acting hits you -wham- in the face. Kazan peels the layers off Williams' characters like an onion. The movie(s) I'm embarrassed to say I haven't seen? Intolerance and Spartacus. The movie I have watched the most times? It's a tie between My Man Godfrey 1936( for sheer fun), and Pygmalion (for the joy of watching Leslie Howard's brain at work. It is an almost perfect movie.) Miracle at Morgan's Creek comes in third because it's just great!