JackFavell

I can imagine Lean as a young man being entranced by Lubitsch's world and yearning to travel because of that influence. But I don't know. I love what you said about the camera and I do remember that scene in the cafe. When you think of Lean behind the camera filming it, it becomes almost like an infinitesimal mirror reflection.

Oh my gosh! I never thought of that! I wonder if Lean was giving a little nod to Lubitsch, or if it just occurred to him on set. I've NEVER thought of comparing the two directors in any way at all. I don't even know if they are comparable... I think Lean was a rabid movie buff at a young age though, trying to escape his strict upbringing. Unless I'm thinking of Carol Reed. I always liked that shot in Summertime, she's just about to arrive at the villa, and everything is so charming, but she's going through a corridor of buildings that is closer and maybe a little more threatening than she's used to.....she's charmed and nervous at the same time that she may be being led in the wrong direction....then splash! Ewww! Lean does show the good and the bad pretty evenly, doesn't he? and almost every occurrence and/or prop has a deeper meaning, but without ever being in any way obvious or bombastic. I think that's why I always go back to Summertime, it's so full, I always find some new discovery in it.

I know! Now I always cringe when i see that part!

> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}Hey, that's great! I never thought about the significance of objects/pursuits to the characters. That's sensational what you point out about the camera Jane totes around. And what trouble it gave her when she tried that backing-up shot. I love watching the way Mauro grabs the camera from her hands just in time. I know, he's a quick little fellow! He could have run away with it too, but he didn't. Poor Jane! That camera just messes everything up, and keeps her from experiencing anything real. I feel that way about my movies sometimes. But maybe it helped her - she literally gets drenched with exactly what she was avoiding, Italy itself, life.... and she found Mauro was a good friend... without that disaster, she never would have really trusted him. > I've yet to see Madeleine! I remember when I first looked it up I was disappointed that it wasn't about the little French schoolgirl from the stories. She's far from the little schoolgirl Madeleine! It's a bit disappointing. I am not a big Ann Todd fan. There is something cold about her. But I guess that's the point! Edited by: JackFavell on Feb 27, 2012 1:49 PM

That's perfectly put, MissG, and I agree. It's very apt you mention "color" or the lack of it in life...since *Summertime* is such an incredibly vivid, beautifully colored movie. It's as if Jane's senses all came alive and tingling when she came to Venice, and most particularly when she saw that red goblet. The music carries a wistful quality, as if expressing deep longing, but you can almost feel the color. It's more warm than disturbing, as it is in *Black Narcissus.* And to that effect, have you noticed that in many of Lean's films, the main character who is searching has a hobby or a way of finding that color through an artistic or physical pursuit? In *Summertime*, Jane has her camera. It's a wonderful choice as it is both an outlet for and a hindrance to finding that passion and color. The camera is at once freeing and alienating. But I think we talked about this in classic film college, when we discussed voyeurism in film. For Jane, the camera helps her see, but also keeps her distant from what she would like to be a part of. It's almost a crutch, to show she has something to do, to keep her at arms length from people, and to remove her sense of loneliness. In Lawrence of Arabia, it's a motorcycle. In Bridge on the River Kwai, it's a bridge (which also creates relationships where there "should not" be, as in between Alec Guinness and Sessue Hayakawa, but it also serves as a symbol of the madness and futility of war). In Doctor Zhivago, it's poetry. In Breaking the Sound Barrier, it's flying. In Brief Encounter, it is "going to the movies", oddly enough. I don't remember a particular pursuit in The Passionate Friends, maybe skiing? or boating? It's been a while, and I'm not sure if my little thesis is true of all Lean's movies. I don't remember anything in Passage to India either, but there are definitely repressed characters, and expressions of physicality that disturb, closer to Black Narcissus. I haven't seen Ryan's Daughter, not most of it, anyway, just a scene or two. Madeleine is the only other film I've seen, and I can't remember it either, except maybe it's chemistry? Edited by: JackFavell on Feb 27, 2012 1:37 PM

Buttergreer - This may sound ridiculous coming from a woman my age - but I have that same naivete too. In fact, I only just realized this last time watching *Summertime* that anything happened between them physically, besides kissing a lot. (blush) I think there is even possibly a case to be made that close physical intimacy happened between Jane and Renato, but maybe not the specific technicality, if you know what I mean. Frank and Miss G and Ro - I've wondered whether I should bring this up or not, but I really feel it's a valid point to make. You were discussing how Lean is purely on the side of romance and love and intimacy, rather than who might be hurt by Renato's actions...well, it seems to me that Lean himself most likely lived his own life outside the boundaries of law and church, probably not particularly of his own choosing.... but by virtue of his own feelings and those of others in the world. I don't want to get into anything about whether he was right or wrong in his lifestyle. I'm just saying that this would make him extremely aware of the person who is drowning, gasping for love, unfulfilled in a loveless world that has clamped down around him because it is not "right". He would be singularly well equipped to deal with the hypocrisy of a marriage that was not all it should be behind closed doors. A person like this would be forced to live without love, stunted and dwarfed by what society might expect. Any crumb of love would have to be found in secret. I think this is why Lean is also so sensitive to Jane's feelings. To have clamped oneself down for so long in an effort to hide one's own feelings, it might be hard to open up to someone. I too have had my own betrayals in love, and I think you all know that I would NEVER come between two people, married or in a relationship even, but I do understand that these things happen from time to time. I would never presume to tell anyone what was good for them, and in this case, I prefer to be swept up in it in this movie. It's funny, because I do the very opposite with the movie Dr. Zhivago (which was mentioned earlier)! I can't deal with it in that movie at all. I think sometimes movies at that time were not condoning the action, they were actually merely giving some lonely people an outlet through imagination to explore love in a way that would not hurt anyone, namely through the movies. Maybe making the movie was Lean's outlet as well. Edited by: JackFavell on Feb 27, 2012 10:47 AM Edited by: JackFavell on Feb 27, 2012 10:50 AM

Those are fascinating photographs, Ro! I admit that they make me a little sad, looking at what once was, and what was changing so fast at the time they were taken. I could look at them all day and probably will.

I totally agree with you, fred, and with Pappy.

> {quote:title=rohanaka wrote:}{quote}Love it!! (l really enjoyed the music that went with it too) Way cool, little missy. Hey there, Miss Ma'am! I like them too, since they really say it all about Ben, they fit so well to his personality. They could have been written about him! I liked that she included some pictures of Carol, his wife, as well. Married for somewhere near 50 years.

> {quote:title=wouldbestar wrote:}{quote}He took "Pappy" Ford's advice and stayed real. That alone makes him a man to be admired and remembered. Thank you, Jack, for sharing. What I love most in Mary-Kate's video is the section of Ben just riding, riding. That alone makes my heart race! But she caught so much more. Really the spirit of the man is what shines out of that video, and I think Mary Kate captured it perfectly in her choice of songs.

Maven - thanks! I'm glad to see you are lurking around! I had about given up hope... >Did you not see the the Japanese camp section? I'd love to chat more about "Bridge" later if you are inclined. It's a great film. No, I meant to say I usually see the Japanese camp part, and miss the trek through the jungle part. Though I am quite sure I have seen the whole movie at one point or another, I just haven't seen it all at the same time. I also really, really like Jack Hawkins. He's one of those actors who is so competent that he gets overlooked. I've never seen him do a bad job in a role, whether he's a stiff upper lip military man, a sincere type, a cad, or a stuffy hypocrite. He's got an intelligence and grim humor that makes him ideal in a film like *Lawrence of Arabia*, where he has to play two sides against the middle. You are aware of a subtext of quiet self hatred in the character that adds tons of depth to his smallish but pivotal role. He also is excellent at playing a man divided, one who believes in his duty, but is still aware that his actions can just be wrong at the same time. Very modern. That movie *The Cruel Sea* they were talking about over at the SSO was a movie where he got a chance to really shine. I think his struggle after being injured in the leg in *Bridge on the River Kwai* is very moving because he's irritable and almost funny about it, and yet, there he is, pushing himself to the limit and obviously in horrible agony, emotionally as well as physically. My mom liked him immensely, I remember her talking about his brave bout with throat cancer, and how he learned to talk all over again using a mechanized voice box. I guess he was stoic in real life too.

ugaarte, glad to see you back. I hope your tooth is better. I should have stated before that the photo of Mary Brian was from a scrapbook that belonged to her or a relative, meaning that the color is original, not added. Well, I mean it was tinted back in Mary Brian's day.

More Norah:

Hi guys! First of all, I'm in on the *Bridge on the River Kwai* group watch! I watched a bit of it the other night and once again was totally blown away (sorry for the pun). I seem to always miss most of the William Holden sections, so it will be good to see the whole thing at one sitting. Alec Guinness is amazing, and is the main reason I watch the movie. His final scene is impeccable, acting wise. I do love the movie and I think Frank will too. It's my kind of war movie, the kind that wonders what it all was for, kind of like *The Train.* But I know what you mean about turning to something else, there is something about the jungle and leeches and all that can really put me off. But this time when I watched the hacking through the jungle, I was paying more attention to the by play between the actors and also the scenery which was quite beautiful in the background. I let my mind wander to how Lean picked his locations. Also, a lot of stuff is going on between the ladies and men in those scenes, and it's kind of funny when William Holden or Jack Hawkins are dying from heat prostration and these tiny, pretty little angels who are their guides are barely breaking a sweat! I guess you probably know, Frank, that I agree with you almost completely about *Summertime*. I can't add anything to what you have said already except that what you wrote so far moved me very much. I love what you said about Mauro the street urchin! Yes! Their relationship is probably even more important than Jane and Renato's, as a symbol of how far Jane opens up. I simply love the scene when he gives her the pen. The Gardenia metaphor is so perfectly done, It's such a tender and bittersweet part of the movie...I'm going to cry talking about it. Sorry! I think of you and your sports metaphors at the end, when he fumbles the flower. I ache for him to make it every time I see the movie. I don't think of Jane's experiences as ultra romantic, as opposed to real, as someone mentioned. I think they are a wonderful fusion of both the romantic and the real, which is even better than totally romantic (which could probably only take place in someone's head or on film). The gardenia is never fully given... I love that it's story, like love and like life, keeps going awry. It's a series of broken exchanges. It doesn't matter, it's deeply meaningful anyway, since their relationship is a series of broken off exchanges too. In fact, maybe first love is like that - it almost happened or it was almost perfect - and we fill in the gaps ourselves, mentally or emotionally. In this case, it really is the thought that counts. _Not_ getting the flower became more important than getting it. So was it love? I think it was. Renato thought of her, and in such a way that it almost doesn't matter whether it was love or not, or whether she got the flower in the end. For Jane, his act of rushing to the train made the last flush of summer before fall comes something she could always remember. She bloomed under his gaze! for the first time in her life, and he appreciated her, and finally, he showed how much she meant to him. It's the beau geste that counted. And you know what? That kind of bloom never disappears entirely. It's a conundrum - they say that a woman is most attractive when she is loved, I think because her confidence is high and she glows with it. I think there is a huge difference in Jane from the beginning to the end of the movie, she's lost that gawky quality, the solitariness that she couldn't shake off.... look at how she responds to Mauro at the end - he's a dear friend in spite of his wily ways, not someone to be suspicious of. Warmth and emotion, which she hid, exudes from her. Edited by: JackFavell on Feb 25, 2012 2:02 PM

Here's a brand new wonderful tribute to our Ben! Thanks to Mary-Kate for working so hard on it. I could watch it for hours. :x http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BvsGpI65Ko&feature=email

Ha! I like John Carroll! I think you are very right about the reasons why some people don't like DAS. It makes sense, it might be a let down for some people expecting a more heroic Scott. I feel for him so much in that film though. My heart breaks in two at the end.

Oooh, I wonder if there will be a dvd of the restored Beggars of Life? That LAM one is creepy! Is she nibbling on her shoulder, or quaking in fear?

Oh rats! I just read the notification and it says I won't get the box set till Monday.

I should be getting the box set in the mail today or tomorrow, if I'm lucky. I'm glad someone else likes DAS! I now can't wait to watch Buchanan Rides Alone. We'll see how I like it.

It's charming, whatever it's from.

> {quote:title=CineMaven wrote:}{quote}*Of course, I also like All About Eve, or any number of movies that have nothing but talk.* > > Whew!!! Mi hermana. > Ripping a piece of track apart? With his bare teeth? Ha! no but Kirk might be able to do that! At one point Burt has to sabotage the train without destroying it, since all the great art treasures of France are on board and en route to Germany. If they make it into German territory, the art will be lost to France. Burt is on foot, so he races ahead of the slow moving train and demolishes track by unfastening a series of bolts in a long row, then knocking out the underpinnings of the track itself in a swath big enough to derail the engine. It then takes the German soldiers on board the train an hour or so to re-set the track. > What's the difference between Burt and Kirk for you? Both physical, athletic. (Give me a little more than just "I...HATE...KIRK"). Or did you explain this to me before? Am I not remembering? Am I not listening? Am I not reading? Am I too old for this message board? > Hey...do not answer that last question. Dang! You denied me answering in my preferred way! (I HATE KIRK.) I DON'T KNOW. There. Is that OK? I really am not sure what the difference is. Maybe it's that I see an internal being in Burt, but not in Kirk. I think that may be it. I will have to think about it more. > (*BTW*...enjoyed your critique of *"The Roaring Twenties"* one of my favorite movies...and loved your description of Helen Vinson ("deliciously malevolent"). May I steal borrow that? > > > Wasn't she in "Torrid Zone"? Feel free to --steal-- borrow that description... I am pretty sure I am not the first to describe her that way! I do think she was in Torrid Zone, facing off over Jimmy... she had no chance of course against Annie and Jimmy's mustache. Gosh . I love The Roaring Twenties and you do too! Yay! More common ground! Edited by: JackFavell on Feb 21, 2012 9:53 PM

Oh yes!

He can be rather scary and cold, but I don't think he was a cold man at all. He always seems to come down on the side of warmth, even though his films/statements themselves are somewhat fractured and shot as if his actors were under a microscope in a clinic. I like *Seconds*, but don't do what I did and watch it at 2 in the morning because of insomnia. It's far too scary! You'd never get back to sleep! Rock Hudson gives a great performance in it, though it's hard to adjust to him since for half the film he's played by someone else. *Birdman of Alcatraz* is also Frankenheimer.

Not to butt in, but my favorite moment of Garbo's in Ninotchka is at the beginning when she talks about her Polish soldier. I love the way she says that line. What is it? I don't quite remember....."I kissed him like that.... right before he died." the intimation being that she killed him. Oh I love Leon's butler! I also love the three fellows, and the entire scene with the cigarette girls - where you get only the sounds coming from the room! The last being a loud roar of approval!

Ha! One of the benefits of watching the movie is seeing Burt all athletic and stuff. :x Nice picture. What were we talking about? Oh yeah. One of the things I like about this movie, and Frankenheimer's work in general, is the lack of talk. When there is talk, it's pretty important, but much of the film is just people doing stuff.......basic action with no yakkety yak. A man riding a bike, or that nice ticket taker checking the schedule, or men working hard to paint the top of the boxcars. I really admire a director who can be silent for long stretches of time. Of course, I also like All About Eve, or any number of movies that have nothing but talk. But it still is impressive to me when a director just shines a spotlight on a man, preferably BURT, doing a job, or moving through the woods, or ripping a piece of track apart.