JackFavell

It seems to me I had read that somewhere before. Thanks for the info. I just went to look up her films to see if any are on youtube, and sadly the only one is *Those Awful Hats*, which I've seen before. She is quite recognizable in it, but it isn't solely about her, so one has no idea of her acting.

I had no idea that Florence Lawrence committed suicide. How sad. The photos I have seen are all so animated and expressive, she must have been a splendid actress.

> {quote:title=movieman1957 wrote:}{quote}This is all great to read. > > There was/is probably a movie in the relationship and back story to Elsa and her father. But we get just enough to know that Elsa is running away. Unfortunately, she runs away to a situation that is worse than the one she left. (I wonder how often that has happened.) > > At the core of the story it is more of a good old fashioned western about doing what is right. Not all the primary four characters go in a straight line. There is more shading to them but they see what is right at the end. Paths cross. People get involved in things not of their making but there is something that compels Gil and, mostly, Steve to see it all through to its proper end. The fact that he is the one that dies makes the whole thing more poignant. Oh this is what I mean! You put that beautifully, simple and true, just like Steve would have. Yes, I like the path they take, meandering due to unforeseen circumstances, not always straight through.... like life is.

I would love to see a *Henry Hathaway* tribute on TCM. He's a grand director that I've only come to discover through you, MissG. But I love Wellman too. He's so spare. Isn't Georgie a riot in his red beard?!! As for Johnny Depp, I wouldn't be at all surprised if his Jack Sparrow was based on the movie, I know he is a classic film fan. I always thought his vocals in the Pirates movies were based on Robert Newton.... of course, ALL movie pirates since 1952 are based on Robert Newton. How about the Burt swashies? I always liked the tongue in cheek performances in *The Crimson Pirate* and *The Flame and the Arrow*. Plus, you get Nick Cravat as his sidekicks, and he does his own stunts. It's beautiful to watch him.

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}Howdy, Denver! -- > That's a very interesting observation. I happen to agree with you. I do believe the young couple was important to the story and they do have resonance. There's no doubting that Steve (Joel McCrea) and Gil (Randolph Scott) are the main story and our emotions are driven by them, but Heck (Ron Starr) and Elsa (Mariette Hartley) do have value and meaning, too. I found her story more moving, but I liked the way Heck stood up and became a man. > I completely agree with that. The generational gaps can sometimes lead to great ignorance. The old can easily dismiss the young and vice versa. "What do they know?" It applies from both points of view. I like how both Steve and Gil point out to the other about remembering they were once young, too. They are hilarious, and at the same time there is not a wasted breath between them. When they talk, it's peeled down to the merest of suggestion, so subtle. They are real friends, never using a sledghammer where a pin prick of conscience will do. > I like how Heck is drawn. He's like so many of us guys when we are young. He's all about himself. A woman is viewed as a selfish possession, a conquest. But what happens when a guy falls for a woman he really cares about? You start to worry about her, place her needs before your own. So Heck grows as a man. He changes. They play the game of attract and repel, kind of like Cary and Ingrid in Notorious, getting steamed at each other for not wanting to say the L word. But Heck can't stand the idea that she might be hurt when the game goes too far. Thank goodness he trusted his instincts. He becomes Steve, only this time, he keeps the girl, and throws the job away. > Elsa also goes through her own growing pains. She's very trusting, thinking the very best of men. She quickly learns that not all men are the same. > > > I really feel for Elsa because she feels trapped at home with her father and she really doesn't have any promising outlets or escapes. You can see how a girl like her can fall into the wrong hands. Her mistakes are so real to me. We see that once Heck is gone, and she is with Billy, her decision doesn't seem so smart. She only went to Billy because of her father and mostly to propel Heck into action. Because she is young, she doesn't realize this about herself until he is gone. I think Mariette Hartley is superb at taking Elsa from headstrong and a little cocky, to confusion, to uncomfortable, to real fear in her wedding scene, which is staged beautifully by Peckinpah. One shouldn't have to pay in such a way for your first mistake. This is where her father fell down. He didn't let her make small mistakes on her own, so her first was a doozy. > Wow, that was brilliant. I certainly didn't think of anything so wonderful as that. You're very correct about it all. The pursuit of money and/or power can be viewed as a weakness. I never thought of that. Such people can end up placing those pursuits above humanity. That's ugly, to me. Gil definitely falls victim to this until he is confronted with an ultimate decision of money versus people. I think Gil thought he _needed_ that money. He and Steve were far from well off - re: the boot. > I liked the levity of the beginning of the film. We're being told Steve seems out of place, out of time. His better days are supposedly behind him. It kind of reminded me of *Man of the West*. That's good. He was a fish out of water. Wrong place wrong time. > I do find Gil to be the more likeable of the two because he's very loose and easy to smile and laugh. I did at first, but Steve got to me later. There is something unyielding (in the best way) in Steve that takes longer to figure out. > That's the way the world works. Those with money call the shots. There's always a grunt to be found. The users and the used. But in this case, the used is such a better man! It's maddening. That's how I feel today. In most movies up to this time, men worked their way up and became powerful and respected because they were strong and good. Now it's reversed. > Yes, these two old cowboys are now working for the bank. We see an element of this in *Once Upon a Time in the West*. Peckinpah shows us something similar in *The Wild Bunch*, too. Ahhh, I saw The Wild Bunch similarity, but not the OUATITW one. Thanks for that. > I have found a lot of this in my life. People like to see what they wish to see. They will use scripture for their own needs, through their own prism. There is a lot of choosing self. You seek what you want and then apply it so. People do this with everything, not just religion... my way is the right way, and I will shower my advice on you, so I'm higher than you.... you'll be under me. Parents are especially prone to telling everyone what to do and how to do it. > I'm with you on that. I do believe Joshua Knudsen (R.G. Armstrong) has taken all of his own hate and disgust and projected it onto his daughter and the world that surrounds them. All very selfish. I think he doesn't know himself. He gets a glimmer when he hits Elsa, then the door of scripture slams shut again. He blocks self knowledge with the Book. > That was superb. You raise a fascinating point through all of that. I would guess being a parent is what you just described. There are times when your experience and abilities are needed and there are going to be times when the children have to do it themselves. Knowing when and where that divide is is the trick. Joshua Knudsen is constantly taking control of Elsa and her life. There is no faith in her. The Hammonds are the exact opposite, for they are without any kind of oversight. > > > If you cannot trust your child to do right on their own, you are basically distrusting your own parenting. That's very true! I never went that deep into it. Knudsen is lost without his wife, and so he is all one thing.... he just slams the gate down. he doesn't know what to do, so he quotes scripture, and is mad about it. He doesn't understand the string theory - letting your child step out a little bit at a time and then pulling them back.... until they know what to do. All his love for Elsa has been eaten up by his self pity. > I liked that scene, as well. Gil has to play dirty to get the clean result he desires. Sometimes doing bad is good. Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons. He also knows Steve would never do it. I am a big sucker for this kind of action. Kind of like Tom and Ranse. I know! I need a right hand man like Gil! > I find it amazing that Gil and especially Steve end up fighting their last fight over something considered so unimportant - a girl and a boy and their love. They realize that honor and the future are more valuable than the gold they are carrying. The job is unimportant in the scheme of things, the job well done is everything. > > > *Wonderfully said. That's why I really love the film. It is about gold, but we must decide what our gold is. What do we value the most?* I should have said that doing the right thing was more important than the money they would earn NOT going to the rescue. Because they probably didn't care as much about the gold going to the bank, as they did about getting their reward. well, maybe Steve cared that the money got there, but these men are down to their last cents. They basically throw away their last chance to make a decent living. Perhaps they are even throwing away a dream - of a peaceful comfortable old age in a place where they feel at home, a ranch or something. There is something very noble about that. Again, I think of Tom Doniphon. I know! > RIDE THE HIGH COUNTRY AND ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST SPOILED > > > The scene where Steve is dying, he doesn't want the others to see him die. He wants to die privately. This reminded me of Cheyenne's (Jason Robards) death in *Once Upon a Time in the West*. Ah yes, I do see that! It makes me think of an animal, going to die outside somewhere. It's rather noble, but leaves people without closure. Maybe closure is over-estimated? This is like Ethan in The Searchers. Ride away... ride away. > I also felt Sergio Leone was influenced by the high angle shot of the showdown. You see this in *The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly*. The way Peckinpah shoots the final scenes is magnificent; highly artistic. > > > > > > > Oh, yes, now I see! Even the colors are similar.

> {quote:title=movieman1957 wrote:}{quote}*Now, THAT was worth waiting for!* Thank you, sir! > I find it amazing that Gil and especially Steve end up fighting their last fight over something considered so unimportant - a girl and a boy and their love. They realize that honor and the future are more valuable than the gold they are carrying. The job is unimportant in the scheme of things, the job well done is everything. > > > I agree with everything in that paragraph except that their doing it didn't surprise me, It was the right thing to do. That was the way they lived. This movie could have been called Do the Right Thing very easily. Even Gil, deep down, managed to control his want, and ended up back in the "high country". Gosh it chokes me up thinking about it.

Oh, you are way too nice to me. I feel like there are so many contrasts in the movie - between young and old, wealth and poverty, even styles of living and loving. Every character can be compared to any other character and it works. Kind of like the Lang films, everyone has an affiliation to someone else, only to be broken or strengthened along the way. One of the things I especially loved about RTHC was the writing. It's a tight-ish story, with the good guys not always so good, but also with them basically veering off their chosen path to do a good deed. It's by no means a goody goody movie, quite the reverse, but the fact that the two men choose to go out "justified", rather than rich makes me want to cry. Another thing about the writing - the best thing in the movie are these one liners and meaningful zingers the two men trade back and forth, and with the rest of the cast. There are some GREAT lines sprinkled trhoughout this film, and I find the way they are integrated into the story thrilling. Edited by: JackFavell on Nov 10, 2011 7:48 AM

I just watched *Ride The High Country* again and I loved it, maybe more this time around. I think I was so wrong when I said that the younger story had no resonance, like the older part did. What I discovered was that the two parts of the story are inextricably linked together, and couldn't come undone with any amount of teasing apart. The young actors don't have the presence of the older actors, but that actually works to the film's advantage, contrasting the experience and common sense of the elders, and the inexperience and foolhardiness of the youngsters. And even the old timers can make foolish mistakes in judgment. In fact, I think _mistakes_ and _judgment_ are what this film is about. All kinds of mistakes, and all kinds of judgment, including God's. I love that Peckinpah takes this for his theme. He seems to take great care in telling his story from the side of the strong, benevolent underdog. Both Steve and Gil seem like men who could have become great, rich fellows, but they followed a different path. Their code is one of service and freedom. They are miles away from the men they encounter, for whom the love of money or power over people is also their weakness. Being an outsider can also be a strength. When the film starts, we see Steve (Joel McCrea) riding into a small town, surprised that everyone seems to be cheering him on. We find out rudely and quickly that he has misjudged the situation.... he has accidentally strolled into a parade and race, and is in imminent danger of being run over by a camel. He is yelled at by every townsperson he runs into, who take one look at him and decide he is an addled old man. First impressions and Images are often mistaken, and in this case almost everyone present underestimates Steve. Peckinpah carefully sets up this dichotomy between image and reality. Age can disguise some fine gifts - reason, a sense of purpose, goodness, skill, and even brilliance. It also disguises a lack of interest in monetary gain or power. We meet Gil (Randolph Scott, cue chorus), Steve's old deputy, literally wearing a false beard and moustache. He resembles Buffalo Bill in his outrageous costume. It's a canny disguise, designed to wring the last few cents from even the closest pocket. Due to financial difficulty, he has become a carny sideshow impressario. One senses that there has always been a bit of the con artist about him, but he is good natured and we instantly like him, despite his seeming interest in money. Steve is less known to us at first. He is prone to the offhand biblical reference. He seems a bit irritated, but is highly trustworthy. He offers Gil a job that could turn lucrative, 250, 000 dollars worth, transporting gold from a mining camp high up in the mountains back down to the bank. Steve knows that Gil is a good man and the best with a gun. They hire Gil's helper, Heck, a youth who although emotional, is able to take care of himself. Steve goes to meet with the bankers who are to employ him and Gil. They are two fat men in suits. This scene really stood out for me this time, maybe because it is so familiar to me in everyday life right now. The fat men, who are too weak to bring their own gold down from the mountaintop, look over Steve, and immediately doubt he is able to accomplish the task. He seems too old and easygoing for such a dangerous job. We suddenly realize why Steve is irritable, having to submit to the judgment of men who cannot do anything but talk. I think I feel this way every day of my life lately. Those men who have chosen power and money over skill or service to their community are in the driver's seat. They call the shots and provide the jobs for stronger men like Steve. Peckinpah lets us know briefly that Steve once was a sheriff, a highly honorable job we can assume he gave his life to. Gil makes it clear that Steve lost his only love through his dedication to the job. So we see a huge contrast between Steve's old life and this modern life. The fairly clear-cut western society may be raw, but there is something clean and noble about it. It has been built up by men like Steve and Gil, but is fast being taken over by an up and coming emphasis on business and grabbers of every kind. There are more contrasts to come. When Steve, Gil and Heck meet Mr. Knudsen and his daughter Elsa, we see that Steve and Knudsen have something in common. They both know the bible backwards and forwards. But whereas Knudsen has completely cut himself off from society, finding evil everywhere, Steve is good-natured and still feels a sense of service to the future. His responses to Knudsen's bible verses are hilarious, but they also show a keener understanding of people and how to get along in life, something important to the young people who are also present at table. Steve parries the tone of Knudsen's comments with aplomb. We now know that Knudsen and Steve are as far apart as can be. Though both profess Christianity, Steve is the real deal, while Knudsen uses his religion as a weapon and a shield, and to propel his own wants and needs. Knudsen has lost his wife, and her grave bears that horrible epitaph, marking her as a fallen woman. We never know what happened to her, but that loss of love he and Steve have in common. Steve carries his grief over losing his love with grace, never blaming her or anyone else for it. Knudsen still seems angry and bitter, blocking out emotion but as much a victim of it. He seems to be taking out his hatred for his wife on the world and on his daughter. The young people are a contrast to the older generation. They are all open emotion - pride and attraction, mostly. Steve and Gil look on with a benevolent eye, ready again to serve youth when needed. I loved how these two worked as a team, even to the very end, and while fighting amongst themselves. They knew what was important, and what was foolish desire even within their own hearts. They knew when to go in to help the kids, and when to hold back and let the children take care of themselves. Time and again they helped one another, no matter what their personal desires were, never asking for any thanks. They both had seen enough of the world to know what is unavoidable - like the love between Elsa and Heck; and what was only greed - like the actions of the Hammonds. The scenes with the Hammonds before and during the wedding were some of the most vulgar I can remember seeing. Again, Peck holds his card close to the vest, Billy Hammond seems nice at first, but we get a bad bad feeling as we are introduced to the family. Finally, we see that Billy is not much better than his brothers, when he plans his wedding in a whorehouse. The girls' overly made up tear-stained faces as they watch the wedding is at once awful and beautiful, like a Fellini image. It was repellent but I can't help remembering it. Why is it assumed that a girl should just join in when men are partying? That the innocent is the one who is wrong, that she is not a game girl, if she doesn't want to join the party? This section actually felt rather modern to me. One of my favorite scenes was the one where Gil bypasses the law and finds "judge" Edgar Buchanan.... in order to steal his credentials. He knows something Steve doesn't about what it will take to keep the Hammonds from taking Elsa or killing them all. He skirts the law completely and cuts right to the heart of the matter, no messing around with what is right or wrong. I really really loved him for this, no matter that it was "wrong" or ignoble. He got the job done. I still am not seeing what you saw in comparing the film with OUATITW (whew! even the INITIALS are too long! ). Perhaps you can tell me what the similarities are? What you saw that made you think Peck influenced Leone? I find it amazing that Gil and especially Steve end up fighting their last fight over something considered so unimportant - a girl and a boy and their love. They realize that honor and the future are more valuable than the gold they are carrying. The job is unimportant in the scheme of things, the job well done is everything. Edited by: JackFavell on Nov 9, 2011 7:46 PM Edited by: JackFavell on Nov 9, 2011 7:48 PM

_wouldbestar -_ I'm so glad you posted here, or I wouldn't have seen your comments at all. I just love Alan Ladd in *This Gun for Hire*, he's like a feral cat, a killer who maybe far in the past was a sweet boy but over the years and the abuse has become as wild and dangerous as a lion. I like the fact that they never make him any less of a killer - he tries but the self preservation instinct is too strong in him. Veronica is so soft and warm in this movie, never pushing herself or her pity on Raven, just seeing what he really is, as we do. She is calm, collected, and real. Again, the writers show great judgment in never letting the romance come to anything, it's more bittersweet this way, and rather uncompromising. This is my favorite pairing of Lake and Ladd, with *The Blue Dahlia* coming in second. I have to say that I really never paid attention to Doris Dowling before, I hated her so much that I never noticed how good her acting was as Ladd's soon to be ex-wife. She's simply great. _Maven -_ I love Veronica's character in *So Proudly we Hail*. She's the female Raven. I too watched *Those Endearing Young Charms*.... for my gal Laraine, but also for Robert Young, who like Franchot Tone, always delivers a good solid performance with dark undertones that one doesn't always equate with him. My favorite roles for him are the ones where he lets this dark side out a bit....somehow, you still like him. Young was completely believable as the heel who captures Day's heart, despite her better judgment. He makes it all look so easy. Ann Harding was great, and I thought she was quite lovely in her own right. She captured the camera in a few scenes, taking her moments like a pro. Laraine for me is always believable, warm and lustrous, with a twinkle in her eye while doubting. I find her perfectly relaxed in front of the camera and I can't for the life of me figure out how she does it. I love these pals and sweethearts back home, Loy, Day, and Hussey. All have something warm and inviting under the skepticism. Edited by: JackFavell on Nov 8, 2011 10:43 AM

:_| Waaaah! Raven always makes me cry.

Oh that's a good one, Chris. Plus Ann Baxter and Erich Von Stroheim, and tension brought to a fevered pitch by Billy Wilder. Tone is one of those actors who may make you say, "Really? Him?" when you see him in a role, but he always pulls it off. At first look, one doubts he could play a gangster or a soldier, it seems so improbable. I always think of him as the *3 Loves Has Nancy* type - a soft fellow, a playboy. But then he catches you off guard by hardening up for certain roles and you forget what you thought at the beginning of the film. He is rising greatly in my estimation lately. I haven't seen a movie in which I didn't like him. Well, maybe *Mutiny on the Bounty*, where he has to compete on screen with Gable... Edited by: JackFavell on Nov 7, 2011 3:46 PM

I think it looks like Martha Mansfield..... but then, I'm not too good at matching faces up with names, as we all know. I thought the Rudy clip was going to be that same clip we all have seen from the train, but I'm glad I stayed to watch the whole thing, because I've never seen him with the kids before.

That's sweet! Thanks.

Squire Ullman looks rather unhappy to be wearing a peter pan collar.

I thought of that song as soon as I saw the clip you posted. After our extensive discussions of Rudy and his great wish to have children of his own, I think it's fitting.

I think I only posted my favorite blondes over at the SSO. I didn't want to interrupt the flow over here at the time - the last few weeks the conversation has been moving much too fast for me to contribute before it switches direction. I am still trying to think of my favorite TV show characters!

HA! I'll say! He's a nasty looking fellow. Jeff, I thought the green glob WAS her parasol, slightly open. Only it looks like someone painted over it a little too heavily.

Wow! Talk about a great cast! It's a beautiful slide, jeff.

Oh man, I love Jan Sterling. Another blonde I forgot to write on my list.

I agree. The emotion goes straight from her voice into your heart.

Don't bother Jeff. It's a hit and run.

hmmm.

Yes, one of the larger towns here might have it. Did YOU get a copy of The Night Has a Thousand Eyes? Or The Constant Nymph?

Oh man, the chances of me seeing that Charlotte Rampling doc here are just about nil. I'll have to wait for dvd.

May is very pretty and has eyes almost as big as Marion Davies.