ThelmaTodd

Another paradigm of the "strong, independent woman" in classic film is the portrayal of wives in the *Laurel and Hardy* shorts! Mr Laurel, but especially Mr Hardy is almost always portrayed as married to a utterly domineering and controlling battle ax wife. He can do little without her permission and she appears to have all the power and control within the marital relationship. The "boys" build much of the comedy around this theme and create comic effect by trying (unsuccessfully) to outwit their wives. Never worked! Laurel and Hardy comedies were never as well liked by women as they were by men, given that wives are portrayed as all controlling, mini-Hitlers. This had to have resonated with many (perhaps most?) of the married men in the audience. For many of them, how far was this from what they felt was the truth? In those days, it's true not many women held elected office, ran corporations or were heads of state. What authority they could not wield outside the home, they often wielded in the home. The *Three Stooges* also played on this fear or gender conflict in their own shorts, when they were shown being married.

A old illustration of an incubus *INCUBUS (1966)* *Contempo III Productions W/ William Shatner* ** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgUaOAI6woQ *Full movie in 5 parts, In Esperanto with English subtitles* *In Esperanto?! What were these people smoking? To think they got* *William Shatner* *to sign up for this!* *An incubus is a demonic spirit that sexually preys upon living women, somewhat parallel to the vampire legend.* *On a strange island inhabited by demons and spirits, a man battles the forces of evil.* *Kia is a succubus, luring to their final perdition men who already have sinful habits and libertine inclinations. She tires of this, it's too easy, and these souls are going to Hell anyway. She wants to match wits and charm with someone who is good. So, against the advice of her sister Amael, Kia seeks out Marc, a man who has already faced death with courage. After a night together, Kia finds that not only is Marc's goodness still intact, but she has been ravaged by love. In anger, she and Amael conjure an incubus to deal with Marc. The incubus starts with Marc's sister, Arndis.* *The premiere of Incubus took place at the San Francisco Film Festival on October 26, 1966, where, according to producer Taylor, a group of 50 to 100 Esperanto enthusiasts "screamed and laughed" at the actors' poor pronunciation of the language. Partly because of its Esperanto dialogue, and partly because of the scandal of one of the actors taking his own life and that of his girlfriend, Taylor and Stevens were unable to find any distribution for the film except in France, where it premiered in November 1966. Nevertheless, the film enjoys a 71% approval rate on the website Rotten Tomatoes.* *Many people connected with the film met unfortunate fates after the film wrapped, giving rise to an urban legend that Incubus was a cursed production.* ** * *

*SUCCUBUS (1968) aka NECRONOMICON-Geträumte Sünden* *Aquila Film Enterprises- Germany Dir Jess Franco* ** http://kinomaniacs.ru/drama/573-sukkub-necronomicon-getraumte-sunden1968.html *Full movie* ** *ADULTS ONLY!* *This amplifies on a theme that came up on a submission to this thread from* *LuckyDan- The Spirit Is Willing (1967)- the idea that one can be amorously drawn to, entranced and exploited by a disincarnate entity. Such legends are worldwide and go back in history. Paranormal investigation groups continue to encounter and record the phenomenon. A succubus is a female spirit or demon that drains the life and vitality of men. An incubus is a corresponding male demon that preys upon women.* *Janine Reynaud stars as a nightclub stripper who free-floats through a spectral 60's landscape littered with dream-figures, dancing midgets and bizarre S&M games.* *The film concerns an S&M nightclub performer named Lorna (played by model Janine Reynaud) who may or may not be a hell-sent succubus or perhaps merely a psychotic serial killer. Or perhaps Lorna is only dreaming. Among the assorted bits of strangeness that the film dishes out are some weird word-association games, a pianist playing his instrument while looking at a math book, an LSD party, some very mild lesbianism in a room full of mannequins. Film was released in the US with an "X" rating.* *(Upload comes from Russia; video can be found by scolling down to the middle of the page.)*

Today, the Social Security program is under the exact same ideologically motivated attack that it was in the 30's. The program was originally enacted against shrill and hysterical opposition which did not abate for a number of years. For decades, it was a maxim that "Social Security is the third rail of American politics". This sore has reopened in recent years, and some politicians are willing to flirt with touching that third rail. What has saved SS and Medicare over all these years and insulated them against revision and cancellation is the raw political reality that seniors vote in very large numbers. Mess with them, and some politician is going down in flames. The mere existence of such a program is an affront to some. It's critics sometimes cloak their philosophical opposition to the program in financial terms- telling us that it is financially unstable or unsustainable. It can be made sustainable, but not by those whose vision of government does not encompass the idea of government addressing ANY social need. What we are going through today is a revival of political debate that takes us back to the 30's, as some would have us return to a 19th century role for government.

Hi calvinme, I never did get a response from Universal concerning that block of early film and their plans for it. *I have no confidence in Universal as a worthy owner of those properties*. They have written off a large segment of classic films in their ownership, leaving in question whether this stuff will ever be restored or released. I urge Universal to sell or donate these properties to someone who will preserve and release them. (Donation would be a nice tax write off for them!) As it stands, their inaction is a great disservice to our American history and culture, which these films are an important part of. *Anybody in the business who is interested, should contact Universal and make them an offer.* (This would be a fine cause for Alec Baldwin and his friends to get involved in!) I will not be satisfied until I hear that those properties have been conveyed to more capable hands.

Don't play with this kind of thing! If you do, you may end up being very sorry! Hi SansFin! Thanks to your post, I did a little poking around to see what films have touched on this topic. I found a German made sex movie called *Succubus (1967).* I'll see if I could find that on the internet. A film came out a few years ago called *Succubus: Hell Bent (2007). Incubus (1966)* featured the male demon. I appreciate the comic strip reference, I rook a look at it. The notion of this type of entity being demonic is well reinforced. Incubi and succubi are types of demonic manifestation that the victim has invited into their life in some way. This can happen by dabbling in magic or satanic rituals (or living in a house where such rituals took place in the past by others). Paranormal research groups have often found that dabbling with Ouija boards open their practitioners and family circle to malevolent and demonic presences. *DO NOT PLAY WITH OUIJA BOARDS!!* Nothing good will come from it. By doing so you will open yourself up to experiences that you can't control, and you won't be able to call 911 for help! Are you a student of Soviet history? I look forward to watching *Jolly Fellows (1932)*! As you must know. there was an artistically creative and cutting edge period to Soviet art in the 1920's, which Stalin put an end to. He demanded "Socialist Realism", which meant that art had to be representational and propagandistic. Jolly Fellows was made before the assassination of Kirov in 1934. after which Stalin launched mass purges. Love of anything foreign, like jazz music, was grounds for arrest. If I don't hear from you, I want to wish you a *Merry Christmas*! Edited by: ThelmaTodd on Dec 24, 2011 11:28 AM

Hi Dan! I sure hope you and your "companion" will enjoy *Dante's Inferno- take your pick, the 1911, 1924 or 1935 versions*. (Some would quip that your friend "Johnny" leads you to one of the pits described by Dante!) All three of them have something unique to offer! *Dante* is a difficult read for modern readers, He used a lot of mythological and ancient references that are obscure to most people today, and he used the names of a lot of real "celebrities" of the day, including Popes. He would blast the memory of anyone he didn't approve of by putting them in hell! When I was a kid I read this work 6 times, reading *John Ciardi's* translations, which he cast in modern English. Even so, you have to read his notes at the end of each canto to understand the names mentioned. The artist who defined him for all time was the 19th century French engraving artist, *Gustav Dore*. You might want to check out his work. When I was a child, I had "second sight". Whenever the lights would go out in the house, everything would be bathed in another kind of light and I could see that our house was filled with non-physical entities. A great many children have this ability and I consider it a natural faculty in humans that becomes suppressed through denial from parents and socialisation. A great pity. There is a whole lot more to reality than what our ordinary senses can perceive. We operate with mental, sensory filters imposed by culture. You can see a ghost! It's not that hard, as paranormal researchers believe that every town has haunted locations. Homes where there have been multiple deaths, suicides and murders tend to be particularly active. (Nearness to, or a house built on top of Native American burial and massacre sites almost invariably attract phenomena.) Contact a local paranormal society and I would bet they could tell you of a number of local sites where the "other side" will intrude upon you and your senses! I have witnessed poltergeist phenomena. I was amused and fascinated, but others might have been terrified. Hollywood has many haunted locations that have attracted the attention of a lot of investigation groups. One of them has been *Thelma Todd's one time Sidewalk Cafe* on Pacific Coast Highway. The Catholic Paulist Fathers, who have owned the location for years, would report many inexplicable phenomena and have commissioned some researchers to come and investigate the property and adjoining garage where she died. She died in the prime of her career and youth, in an untimely manner and not from natural causes (I believe it was murder). Her spirit doesn't seem to be at rest. Enjoy your viewing, and thanks for the feedback! If I don't hear from you, *Merry Christmas!*

Hi Sansfin I appreciate the leads! It does look like an interesting film, I will certainly watch it! I am interested in Soviet history. It was good to dig up the film link, as other readers may want to check it out as well. Your reference to *Dante's Inferno* was fortuitous, as I had posted it and it's remakes on the other, "exploitation" thread yesterday!

Her views are the result of a lack of sufficient exposure to classic film. I hope you can continue to rectify that! Whatever is current, often has it's antecedents and roots in prior history and in previous generations. Cultural traits and tendencies usually don't appear from out of nowhere.

From "Why Does Hollywood Use Fake Money In the Movies?" http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100619093008AAU0ucy "There are *very* strict federal laws about making fake money and they apply to films just as much as they apply to the rest of us. The Secret Service says: The Counterfeit Detection Act of 1992, Public Law 102-550, in Section 411 of Title 31 of the Code of Federal Regulations, permits color illustrations of U.S. currency provided: * The illustration is of a size less than three-fourths or more than one and one-half, in linear dimension, of each part of the item illustrated * The illustration is one-sided * All negatives, plates, positives, digitized storage medium, graphic files, magnetic medium, optical storage devices, and any other thing used in the making of the illustration that contain an image of the illustration or any part thereof are destroyed and/or deleted or erased after their final use The Counterfeit Detection Act of 1992, Public Law 102-550, in Section 411 of Title 31 of the Code of Federal Regulations, permits color illustrations of U.S. currency provided: * The illustration is of a size less than three-fourths or more than one and one-half, in linear dimension, of each part of the item illustrated * The illustration is one-sided * All negatives, plates, positives, digitized storage medium, graphic files, magnetic medium, optical storage devices, and any other thing used in the making of the illustration that contain an image of the illustration or any part thereof are destroyed and/or deleted or erased after their final use" Source(s): http://www.secretservice.gov/money_illus…

Hi mndean, I too have seen real looking currency in earlier silents. From the late 20's up through the 50's however they discontinued doing that.

Hi Sansfin- We're in luck! *Jolly Fellows (1932)* is available in full length upload from a Russian website at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chDRXQ77IgA *Full movie, in Russian with English subtitles.* Doesn't seem like a typical Stalin era film!

Hi Sansfin! Did you check my thread *VINTAGE EXPLOITATION FILMS-FILMOGRAPHY in Your Favorites*? I posted three films that you can view, just yesterday: http://forums.tcm.com/thread.jspa?threadID=161844&tstart=0 *DANTE'S INFERNO (1935) w/ Spencer Tracy* *DANTE'S INFERNO (1924)* *DANTE'S INFERNO (1911)* Cheers! PS: Your selections ARE fascinating! I'll keep an eye out for that Soviet film and see if it's on the internet!

Hi finance, You got to take a look at Fred's link! The state of Sonora was running a lively trade with the American studios by printing and selling movie money. Some were custom made for a specific studio and bore the studio name. They even appeared in a variety of denominations. (They even printed fake confederate money, probably for use in civil war dramas!) The ones illustrated were for: Paramount, Universal, Republic, Columbia and Fox. Generic movie dough was also on offer, one class of such notes bore the inscription: "Phoney Mazuma"!! The Mexicans were most resourceful and totally at the service of these studio clients. No doubt they did it a whole lot cheaper than an American banknote company! Who would have thought? So funny and fascinating! Fred scored a three pointer with this link!

Hi rosinryanz! A couple of reasons I welcome your participation are inherent in your original post. I could tell that you must have seen a fair number of old films to have been able to make such an observation. It also tells me you are a highly observant person; not everyone notices such details! These are great qualifications for a poster around here! Happy Holidays!

Hey Fred, All kinds of good information is being served up in response to our friend "rosin"! Our community is most olbliging in such cases! PS: I noticed he/she has only had 170 posts since 2003! A person of few words! As encouragement, let me say to him/her what they used to say at the end of the *Beverly Hillbillies*: *"Set as spell! Take your shoes off! Y'all come back now, ya hear?"!*

Hi Fred, How fascinating that link is! I definitely recall seeing this stuff, (or something that looks a lot like it) from many an old movie. The various states of Mexico were allowed to design and print their own issues. The state of Sonora even made a business out of furnishing the American studios with "Motion Picture Money", as I see a category for issues printed for Columbia, Fox and Paramount, even with the studio name on them! Besides keeping the Secret Service off their backs, I think the studios also liked the idea as it mitigated theft risk. Use of real bills would have required the contant presence of a security guard, who would have had to keep his eye on the notes continuously.

Hi Fred! I knew you'd have something interesting to say on this subject! I too have noticed dual portrait currency in old movies. I think those were deliberately used to reassure the Secret Service that no real bills were used in the shoot. It would have made sense, given how close Mexico was to Hollywood, and how the stuff could be had for cheap. (I'll bet many a director and producer had some of it left over from gambling jaunts to Tijuana!) Also, it wasn't so wildly unrealistic to American viewers back then, as some older US money had dual portraits and even dual pictures, like the $10 US Notes of 1901. Dual pictures and portraits on the face side and even the back were very common on many of our 19th century issues. Our paper money was reduced to it's present size with the Federal Reserve Note series of 1928. The larger notes continued to circulate for a few years after, especially the silver and gold certificates. (Gold certificates were terminated and withdrawn in 1933 when Roosevelt took us off the gold standard. Silver certificates circulated until the well into the 1960's, but were reduced in size as well) You could date an unrestored antique pre- 1930's cash register, from the larger sized compartments for the old larger bills! Also old pants in vintage clothing stores show the larger sized back pockets which were designed to accomodate the larger wallets and bills! Edited by: ThelmaTodd on Dec 22, 2011 1:28 PM

Hi sepiatone, In the 1920's silent films you see the old sized bills. They were over 4 inches by almost 10 inches in size. When the screenplay called for British money, the pound notes of that period were huge and printed only on one side. Their size and proportions approximated one half of an 8 X 11 sized sheet, about 5 X 8. Sometimes French francs were also depicted, which were equally large back then. I have images of British currency from the 30's posted on the thread I mentioned below: Money in the Old Movies.

*DANTE'S INFERNO (1935)* *Fox Film Corporation w/ Spencer Tracy, Claire Trevor, Rita Hayworth* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPwgJ1_mKXs *Full movie in 7 parts* *An unusual melodrama from the 30's, featuring a 10 minute "Inferno" sequence. Inspired by a real life event 20 years earlier, where a fire consumed Dreamland Park at Coney Island. It featured a "Hell's gate" attraction with a fantasy ride through hell and a big Satan over the entrance. Ironically the place caught fire, caused by workmen.* *Jim Carter (Tracy) takes over a fairground show illustrating scenes from Dante. An inspector declares the fair unsafe but is bribed by Carter. There is a fatal disaster at the fair during which we see the vision of the Inferno. Carter establishes a new venture with an unsafe floating casino.* *According to a 28 July 1935 New York Times article, there were 4,950 technicians, architects, artists, carpenters, stone masons and laborers, 250 electricians and 3,000 extras in the Inferno scene.*

Hi again rosinryanz, As a follow up, I think what the Secret Service was concerned about in the case of movies was that the high resolution film cameras, with their 35mm film and high optics lenses, could have been used by a shifty cameraman, behind the back of the director or producer, to snap a good still photo of any currency used on the set. Such an image could then have been used in a photoengraving process by counterfeiters. A few seconds, when no one was looking, is all it would have took. Had a 50 or a 100 dollar bill have been used in a shoot (which was a lot of money to the average person at one time), it might have presented quite a temptation to a cameraman.

Hi rosinryanz, Take a look at a thread I launched in *Your Favorites: Money In the Old Movies.* http://forums.tcm.com/thread.jspa?threadID=161743&start=0&tstart=45 There, I discuss things like a value-converter for figuring out how much sums mentioned in old movies equate to in today's purchasing power, as well as to the issue of appearance. I even include links to menus (with prices) to classic era Hollywood hot spots and restaurants. There, posted on *Sep 21, 2011 10:05 AM* , I said: "Ever notice that the paper money used in old movie scenes looked conspicously fake? Why didn't they just use real bills to make it more realistic? There was a good reason. The Secret Service, which was charged with protecting our money from counterfeiters, at one time took an absolute, and I mean absolute zero tolerance attitude to currency reproduction in any, way shape or form, and that included depiction on film! Filmakers were put on firm notice that use of real bills in a screenplay would not be acceptable! This may sound overzealous to us today, but that's what it was. It wasn't until many years later that such restrictions were lifted. In *It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World (1963), *there is a luscious close up shot of a bunch of real hundred dollar bills (they had to be real, as making such copies would have been strictly illegal, even for movieland). " Also: "*Who's Minding The Mint (1967)* was made years after the govt let up a little from it's once over paranoid interpretation of "No reproduction!". Up until the late 40's and early 50's they used fake money, even in close up shots! Today, you can buy or make reproductions of US money (they sell repros of high denomination notes like $10,000 bills in gift shops.), the law says that they can't be in the original size. Making an original sized reproduction can still be prosecuted." There were considerable design variations and changes in the paper money into the early 20th century. Also, there were many variations, as there were different designs for *Silver Certificates, Gold Crtificates, National Bank Notes and Federal Reserve Notes*. In some very old movies you also notice that the paper bills were of a greater size than today. Paper money was shrunk to it's present dimensions in the late 1920's, although the larger notes continued to circulate for years therafter. You can see the old notes on display and for sale in any stamp and coin shop. They are beautiful; no reproduction does them justice!

*Triumph Of The Will* is too toxic and controversial for most any cable or broadcast channel. For those that want to see it, it is best viewed online or on video. Besides it's cult appeal and sensationalism, as semi-documentary it does have considerable historical interest. It's one of those works most film buffs have heard and read about, but have seldom seen. Video and internet have given Riefenstahl's "magnum opus" a whole new lease on life, and it may well turrn out to be one of the most enduring monuments of the Hitler regime. For those interested, Triumph Of The will can be viewed on my *exploitation filmography* thread in "*Your Favorites*". I don't "recommend" the film nor condone the movement and message that it glorified. It is a vital historical artefact, and is put there for those who are interested in viewing it in that light.

Many, many stars were less than likeable in real life, or did things to which we can take exception, either through their actions or views. Almost all TCM fans have some "toxic reaction" to someone or another, foe whatever reason. Quite a number of them risked their careers and popularity by standing up to Senator McCarthy. Others have had a personal life marred by scandal and vice. Movies are an illusionary world of make believe, and that is what the audience was getting for the price of the admission ticket. My personal feelings about Fonda center around her ditzty, emotion driven "air sign" quality which comes through in a number of her film roles. I always got the sense that she wasn't acting so much as playing her real life self. When Carrol O'Connor played "Archie", he was acting. When Jean Stapleton played Edith Bunker, she was acting. When playing some of her film roles, Jane Fonda didn't need to act, she was playing herself.

*DANTE'S INFERNO (1924)* *Fox Film Corporation* **http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_HrrWCw4OY&feature=related *Full movie in 5 parts.* *This is quite a remarkable film from the silent era. It combines imagery and inspiration from* *Dante's Inferno**, interspersed with a story that had a contemporary setting.* *Unfortunately the only copy of it I could find has no soundtrack. No problem, you could play some background music by opening another tab and playing something off youtube, or putting a disk in your CD disk drive. I would recommend some long running operatic work, like Wagner's Siegfried, Parsifal or Lohengrin. (all of that stuff is on youtube).* ** *The tactics of a vicious slumlord and greedy businessman finally drive a distraught man to commit suicide. The businessman is tried for murder and executed, and is afterward taken by demons to the Hell where he will spend the rest of eternity.* *This film, like several previous* *Fox Films such as The Queen of Sheba, A Daughter of the Gods and some Theda Bara films, featured full nudity in some sequences. Actress Pauline Starke is completely nude in the Hell sequences, with the exception of a large flowing black wig that covers her nether regions. Some bit players and extras are fully nude. The different prints of the film were more than likely edited according to the attitudes of the different regions or parts of the world they played in.*