Stephan55
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Posts
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Days Won
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Posts posted by Stephan55
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Welcome to the TCM fan boards!
I hope that you find the time you spend here to be informative, entertaining, and maybe a bit of both.
I too am a big Spencer Tracy fan and had not seen THE MOUNTAIN for many, many years, and was very much looking forward to seeing it again. I can't recall TCM ever showing it before so it may have been a TCM premier.
Likewise, I had to be away at work, so I set my dvd recorder for what I'd hoped would be an enjoyable evening viewing my old favorite, but alas my cable provider had hiccups that day and my recording of THE MOUNTAIN was pixalatingly useless to watch.
THE MOUNTAIN isn't on the TCM schedule for the next few months and I suppose it's anyone's guess when (or if) they'll ever show it again (depends on whether its in the TCM library or they had to rent it from someone else)
I was hoping that someone on these boards might have made a good TCM recording of THE MOUNTAIN that they'd be willing to either sell or swap with me for one from my TCM collection?
I mentioned this in another Tracy thread but so far, no one seems interested.
Anyway, welcome again, lawstermind
if you spend much time here you will find this place to be a diverse group of opinionated oldsters, youngsters and in-betweeners, but we all seem to share a common love of movies in general and classic movies in particular (whatever that term means to the individual viewer). And most of us feel we've found both on TCM!
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Thanks again for the link slaytonf.
Yeah I see it's not listed as a TCM replay in the foreseeable future.
Too bad for me.
I don't suppose you might know anybody who made a decent TCM recording of THE MOUNTAIN that they'd be willing to sell or trade with me, do you?
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I heard that Spence's nose got frostbit when he was playing with Wagner on "The Mountain."
A little off-topic, here, but since you all are Spencer Tracy fans I thought I'd mention how bummed I am since yesterday night.
I was all excited about TCM showing THE MOUNTAIN (1956) yesterday. I can't recall ever seeing it on TCM before (maybe it was a premier?) and I hadn't seen the movie for decades and was really looking forward to watching it last night, when I got off from work.
I'd set my dvd recorder in anticipation.
Then, when I hit play I got a nice intro but just as things were beginning to get good, my cable provider failed me. Pixilation & freeze-ups ruined the movie for me.
Does anybody know if TCM will be rescreening THE MOUNTAIN again anytime soon?
I didn't see it on next months (November's) schedule.
If not, I was wondering if any of you Tracy o'**** might have made an SP DVD recording of THE MOUNTAIN that turned out good. If so, would you consider making a copy and mailing it to me for a renumeration of cost of disc, postage, and your time? Or perhaps we could swap for one of my recordings that you may not have? (NOTE: I only record on quality Taiyo Yuden or genuine Verbatim dvds in HQ for movies less than 65 min long, & SP for movies up to 128 min or 3 or more hrs long using multiple discs, & SPP for movies that are over 128 min but less than 160 min long) If any of you are willing, would you please let me know what you think is fair in a PM?
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Thanks for the link slaytonf
I kinda figured that is what is going on, but wanted confirmation. Thanks!
Sure wish the word "vacation" was a real word in my vocabulary.
The only way I ever come anywhere close to getting one is between contracts and jobs.
I think that Ben Mankiewicz has come a long way and does very very well in carrying more of Robert's load each year. When the time comes for Robert to retire (which I hope is not for a very long time, yet), I think Ben will be well groomed for the role of full-time evening host.
"Retire," hmmm, that's another word that sounds like a fantasy for me.
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I'm sure that somebody must have already asked and answered this question earlier this month, but since I don't know where that thread is I'll beg your pardon and ask it again....
*Where is Robert Osborne? ?:|*
Is he ill?
or is he on another vacation?
if the latter, is this (will this be) a regularly scheduled vacation month as part of a new contract deal with TCM?
I am enjoying Ben Mankiwicz as the evening host, but each week I keep expecting to see Robert's face again, and then Ben comes on and simply says that he is covering for Robert Osborne, but makes no mention why, or where Bob might be?
If he's taking a vacation, or whatever, I would like to know, and if he is ill, as a concerned fan, I'd also like to know.
Thanks for anyone willing to give me a heads up on this.
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http://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/08/12/just-a-cigar/
Whether he actually said it or not is kinda moot, the message is clear and appropo, he may very well have said it and it certainly sounds like something he would have said,... especially in one of his more lucid moments between cocaine highs.
Anyway, I'm sure even top-bill would subscribe to the following ideology, especially if it promotes some hidden prurience...
"When the legend becomes fact, print the legend".
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"Finance" is a She? :0
Now I really am confused, ... ?:|
Has He always been a She, or has something recently been added, err, taken away?
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Jeesh guys, as Freud (perhaps one of, if not the biggest, promoter of subliminal Idish messages -- next to TopBilled ) once confessed, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and a bed is just a place to sleep." okay, I added that second part. But seriously guys (and gals) I think some of us are really reaching on this topic for, quite frankly, messages that only exist in the individual viewers mind/s.
Sometimes a bed is hard to come by... case in point, the time when a couple of our founding fathers were once forced to share a coveted bed, or sleep on the floor....
In 1774, on a way to a meeting, Franklin and the committee spent a night in New Brunswick, New Jersey. The Inn was so full that Benjamin Franklin and John Adams were forced to share a bed. The result was a somewhat farcical matter recorded by Adams in his diary which gave a delightful glimpse of Franklin's personality and the odd couple relationship he had over the years with Adams....
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*unaffected* (Adjective): 2.(of a person) Without artificiality or insincerity: "his manner was natural and unaffected".
*unpretentious* (Adjective): 1.Not attempting to impress others with an appearance of greater importance, talent, or culture than is actually possessed.
2.(of a place) Pleasantly simple and functional; modest.
That kind of was a silly thing to be surprized at, that the director of *The Razor's Edge* was the same man who directed *Grand Hotel*, considering how both her grandfather and her great uncle were together in that latter film. But then again, she may have seen that movie several times long ago, well before she became a director herself, and therefore didn't pick up on it.
I bet both she and Robert had a big guffaw about it afterward,
Drew: "I can't believe that I didn't know/forgot that Edmund Goulding directed both of those movies, and *Grand Hotel* is such a classic."
Robert: "I know, I was just as surprized when you said that!"
Both laugh outloud....
And if that really was "Drew's worst moment" then she's doing really well by any other standard.
The Barrymore clan made a lot of movies, over a lot of years, with a lot of different directors, and several where both John & Lionel were together, so I'm willing to cut her some slack and laugh with her about that. ( as if whatever I, or any of us, say on these forums really matters to those whom we "talk" about )
Not including even earlier stage appearances the Barrymore family had screen careers which ranged from D. W. Griffith forward...
1911-1953 Lionel
1914-1941 John
1914-1957 Ethel
1909-1943 Dolores Costello (Drew's grandmother)
1950-1976 John Drew Barrymore (Drew's father)
and Jaid Barrymore, (Drew's mother) was/is also an "actress" of sorts
I think that we can look at this in a positive way as an illustration of just how spontaneous and honest Drew's responses are. None of us are perfect, and she is not afraid to be herself, flawed, "bad hair" and all.... that says a lot about her character and who she is, an unpretentious, unaffected person. That kind of sincerity is a hard thing to come by today, let alone when a celebrity displays it. I find the quality endearing.
Oh, and I noticed the two-tone hair, but since I see so much of that, and even more so, on a day to day basis, I guess it didn't bother me to see it on her. If she were trying to grow out her natural color how else would she do it?
I remember when I was a kid, how sunbleached a lot of our hair became during the summer. Then I had a friend who became seriously ill and was forced in-doors for several months, for a while she had a two-toned look as well.
Here is a bit of trivia, and I bet Drew wouldn't flub on this one... The only known film in which all three of the senior Barrymore siblings starred together was in 1932... *Rasputin and the Empress*
In it Ethel Barrymore plays Czarina Alexandra, John Barrymore plays Prince Paul Chegodieff and Lionel Barrymore plays the infamous Grigori Rasputin.
TCM played this movie a few years ago and I surely would like to see it again.
I remember one scene where John and Lionel, in character, were strolling down this long corridor, when Lionel let out this incredible belch that would shame a seal. I believed that the proud burp was to display the unabashed vulgarity of Rasputin before the Romanov Imperial court, however the camera caught a look of unfeigned surprize on John's face and what appeared to be a stifled smiling grin, instead of one of royal shock.. It made me wonder if the belch was improvised and left in, or just unrehearsed, or if it was rehearsed, perhaps, at least not to such a splendid great tone... Or It might have been a blooper that director Richard Boleslawski thought should just be left in... whatever, I sure would like to see and hear it again. It was like an out-of-character glimpse of underlying childish sibling frivolity, and, for me, at that moment, greatly humanized these two great actors.
I also discovered the following which now harmonizes the film for me and also helps to explain the roots of why films to this day herald a disclaimer that "This motion picture is a work of fiction...any similarities to persons alive or dead is a coincidence..."
Lawsuit
The model for Princess Natasha (played by Diana Wynyard) was Princess Irina Yusupov, the wife of Felix Yusupov, one of Grigori Rasputin's actual murderers. Yusupov filed a lawsuit against MGM in 1933, claiming invasion of privacy and libel. The film portrays her as a victim of Rasputin, and it is implied that he raped her, which never happened. She won an award of $127,373 in an English court and an out-of-court settlement with MGM, reportedly of $250,000, in New York. (these were huge sums of money in 1933, equivalent millions today)
The familiar disclaimer "This motion picture is a work of fiction..." in the credits of most Hollywood films is a result of the lawsuit. The scene was cut, which rendered Wynyard's character somewhat incomprehensible if the viewer of the film is not aware of this cut—in the first half of the film, Princess Natasha is a supporter of Rasputin, and in the second half she is extremely afraid of him, for no apparent reason. The laserdisc release of this film includes the original theatrical trailer, which contains a portion of this deleted scene. (information courtesy of Wikipedia)
Another reason I'd like to see this movie again is to see if TCM would air that original trailor and to have another look for the films inconsistency regarding this deleted, possibly irrecoverable scene, with the knowledge that it once was there.
It may not be an "essential" but I'd love to hear both Drew & Robert comment on that Barrymore "classic."
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"Wild Rovers" (1971) a great little buddy western that I wish TCM would play sometime.
But nothing sexual implied between the two men in that movie.
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Don't know if you were replying to me or not, but when I say "a pretty boy,"
I mean just that. He was one of those incredibly good-looking young men. Certainly attractive to the ladies, and likely to many men as well. But I don't imply that he was feminine in any way, he was just a very good-looking kid. And I think that he handled the part of Jesse just fine.
And when I say that he was brash & boisterous, I do mean that as the cocky, self-assured characters that he portrayed on screen, especially during the latter 1930's and early 40's, prior to his enlistment in the Corp.
As far as I am aware, the off-screen Power was practically always a very congenial gentleman, though he also apparently had a great sense of humour.
Certainly a very likable guy that people enjoyed hanging out with. I wish that I could have been privileged to have met Ty, the man.
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Gable & Tracy in "Test Pilot."
I loved that film as a kid,.. still do, but Tracy's third wheel, odd-man-out relationship with Gable and Loy, is a bit odd to me today. Sure, he loves Gable... but the older I get, the more twisted their relationship seems to become. Certainly much more ambiguously ambivalent than the one like they had in "Boom Town" with Claudette Colbert and Hedy Lamar.
Regarding "Sometimes A Great Notion," they did play that one for laughs, in-fact it was Richard Jaeckel's clowning around with Newman in that scene that caused his own death.... I found myself laughing right with him on how silly they looked, right up to the teary-eyed end.
But in reality it can happen, just like that... Before I saw that movie I remember swimming with this girl at the beach. We got caught in a rip-tide. It was easy enough to swim parallel to the beach and get out of, but the look of this beautiful young girl, hair a muss, sputtering, with salty snot running out of her nose struck me as hilarious at the moment... I couldn't contain myself. Then she said, "Don't laugh, I'm drowning!" and we both began laughing so hard that it was hard to keep the sea out. I thought, "My god, if we don't get out of this soon we'll literally die laughing..." and we almost did.
LOL "Lassie," perfect! How many times was she a he playing a she. Good thing they were Collies, a German Sheperd could never have gotten away with the gender ruse.
Edited by: Stephan55 on Aug 28, 2012 10:35 PM
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I tried to make a timelier post yesterday but for some reason the board or the net or the PC I was using (or any combination thereof) were incredibly slow.
Regarding the movie:
I've always loved this version of "Jesse James," and of course the sequel "The Return of Frank James," which I hope that TCM will also air sometime in the near future.
The 1939 "Jesse James," dramatic license et al, is for me the best.
Of all Jesse James films that I've seen, (though I do enjoy Audie Murphy the actor, and have the highest respect for Audie Murphy, the man), and found the Philip Kaufman interpretation of "The Great Northfield Minnesota Raid" (1972) with Cliff Robertson as Cole Younger and Robert Duvall as Jesse James very interesting. And for pure psychological schmaltz "The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford" (2007) directed by Andrew Dominik, with Brad Pitt, as a ruthlessly twisted Jesse, and Casey Affleck, as an equally twisted Robert Ford, is hard to beat.
But I think for pure enjoyment Henry King's "Jesse James" (1939) is damn near perfect.
The casting of all involved is great. Each complements the other, and the pacing is never slow.
Watching this movie again, reminded me of why I liked such later "buddy" westerns, in particular George Roy Hill's "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" (1969) with Redford & Newman.
In 1969 that movie played for 18 consecutive weeks at my hometown theater, and I probably saw it 15 Saturday nights, of those 18 weeks. It played with "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie" which I also saw part of those weeks, though with far from the same pleasure that I derived from "Butch & Sundance."
When I was in High School, the general weekend routine was Friday night dance at the Moose Lodge, and Saturday night at the Lamarr theater. The mission for both was almost always the same: girls, alcohol and rowdy behavior (not necessarily always in that sequence), but having seen "Butch..." so many times I knew the film by heart, and it allowed me to focus on my primary mission of going to the movies in those days, which was to meet girls. But I can't say that I ever got tired of that flick, and still enjoy it to this day.
I think the reason why I enjoyed it so much is that in many ways it subliminally reminded me of the earlier "Jesse James." In fact I found many of the scenes in that film strangely reminiscent of "Jesse,"... The doubling up on the horse scene, riding away from the posse, flinging money to distract the posse from the chase, and the jumping off the cliff scene into the river, Of course Hill did that one without the horses... I wonder if Hill was a big fan of "Jesse James" (1939) when he was a kid? Sure seems like he might have been.
Regarding the actor:
Tyrone Power has always been one of my favorite actors. Yep, he was an energetic, brash & boisterous "pretty boy" when he was young, but heck,... he was young!
He was only 25 in '39, and had the world by the tail! Comparing his boyish good looks in the 30s... "Marie Antoinette" (1938), Ty was 24, and "Lloyd's of London" (1936), he was 22,... crap, even I was good looking at 22!
Heck, if he appeared to be aristocratic, perhaps it was because he came from such a long and distinguished line of Tyrone Power thespians, going back to the 18th century....
He, like Robert Taylor, and Errol Flynn were almost too good-looking when they were young pups. Being that "pretty" made it difficult for them to shine as actors. They were cast "Like beautiful women," in many of the roles that they got, and lost out on other, perhaps more serious ones, too often because of those very same looks. Being too good looking can sometimes be a handicap, especially for a serious actor or actress. But like Taylor and Flynn, Ty aged, perhaps not quite so gracefully after the 40's, but as his fine and gentle looks became craggier, and rougher, it had the benefit of allowing him to engage more mature roles.
He was noticably different after WW2. In "The Razor's Edge" (1946), he was still only 32, but a much harder 32. I read somewhere that he thought his best film was "Nightmare Alley" (1947), in it he certainly ran the gamut and really stretched, as an actor. A not very likeable rascal, who almost goes mad! A far cry from his earlier screen persona. I also really liked him in "Rawhide" (1951). His character was a far cry from the more flamboyant "Jesse James." "Rawhide" was a much more realistic type of western. The action was more subdued which, for me, made the suspense leading up to the finale scene that much more effective, There were a few, like "Pony Soldier," (1953), "The Mississippi Gambler" & "King of the Khyber Rifles" (also 1953) where one could get a whiff of that older "younger" Tyrone Power, but then he'd pop one off like "Abandon Ship!" & "The Sun Also Rises," and his grand finale "Witness for the Prosecution" (1957), and Tyrone the actor would shine!
The older I get, the more I appreciate and enjoy Tyrone Power's brief 44 years on earth!
Unlike Flynn, Power was able to successfully reach beyond his earlier typecast, and yet, aside from a weak heart, he was still athletic enough to play the swashbuckler role with youthful panache, whenever he was cast to do so in his latter years.
Regarding his sexuality,... all of his women never questioned it, and neither did his friends.
It's easy to write a slurr against someone after they're dead. It may sell a few books, but I question the veracity of those who say that men like Grant and Scott (and even myself, in my younger, rowdier days) who shared a bachelor pad so that they could more easily party and bed the ladies, also used it to pork each other as well. The very thought is disgusting to me. And yet those latter two were man enough, and secure enough within their masculinity to joke about the sometimes awkward appearance their relationship... Two very good-looking guys sharing the same roof... might have on those whose minds were in the dirt.
Hear-say, to me is not truth... and certainly wouldn't hold up in a court of law. But along the hear-say line is also the rumor that Power was cursed, (or blessed) with his father's unibrow, and, just as Tom Cruise today, lent himself to plucking, waxing, and even electrolysis, to create the the illusion of a natural hairline.
Does just saying that make it so?
No, but it will arouse suspicion, curiosity and conjecture in those that don't really know.
Also, regarding actors not resembling the "real" person that they are portraying on screen,... to anyone who fancies him or herself to be knowledgeable about film history, this should come as no surprize. Most people went and go to the movies to see their favorite stars in the bigger-than-life role of those "real people," whomever they are or were. And a real actor can capture the essence of either the living person that they are portraying, or the director and screen writers interpretation of that person if they are dead.
Case in point, Gary Cooper won two of his back-to-back oscars portraying contemporary people. People who were outstanding and heroic in their own right. But Coop didn't look anything like Alvin York, nor could he even play baseball. Yet he captured the essence of both of those two men that he portrayed on screen so well, that those that knew York and Gehrig said that no one could have played them better than Gary Cooper!
Power may have not looked a whit like the photographs of the real Jesse James, but that's not really the point... is it?
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Not that I didn't enjoy Alec, especially over the previous "essentials" co-host, but I am happy to say that I find Drew Barrymore's observations and commentary with Robert Osborne much more refreshingly "natural" and spontaneous than most of the shows co-hosts. In fact what others have said "sounds like she is making it up as she goes along," for me is what makes her comments so unpretentious, sincere and genuine. She is not reciting something that was memorized for the occassion, she is sincerely responding to both the movie and Robert. Her's is not a "canned" response, plus she is not on some ego trip to try and "out-do" Robert. She acknowledges that he is in the senior position with much more experience regarding movie history, but she also has much to contribute to their conversations based on where she's come and is coming from. As both an actress, a young director, still learning the ropes, as a young person and as a person with a unique perpective to the world of Hollywood, actors and acting, (good & bad) based on her Barrymore heritage.
Unlike some others, I find Drew to be one of the highlights of the "essentials" program. I like what she brings out in Robert, and I sincerely enjoy her presence on the "show."
So far they have not aired an essentials with Drew as co-host that I have not already seen, numerous times before, but I have recorded all of the first-run of Robert & Drews "Essentials" together and after listening to their pre & post commentary about the film I often find that there is something they've said, some observation and insight gained, that I was prior unaware of, which often stimulates me to again watch the movie again to see if I can see it through another persons eyes. I like that very much, because as much as I think that I know about and enjoy film as I do, I discover that there is still much more that I can learn and more to enjoy, even in a film that I previously thought that I knew much about.
Robert & Drew bring this out, Drew with her thoughtful spontaneity, and Robert with his experienced insight. I find that they are a great pairing, that I thoroughly enjoy. They are the highlight of my "essentials" evening. I hope that she remains for a very long time as an "essentials" co-host with Robert.
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hlywdkjk
Thanks so much for all of that wonderful Kong trivia.
Well if Cooper said he cut the spider scene in '33, then there is no way that anyone beyond that cut could have seen it... i guess I must have made it up in my head...
I feel shattered, sorta the same feeling that I had when I discovered who santa really was, and who he wasn't.
I imagine that in the 50's there were numerous versions of Kong being shown on televison, from the more complete 1933, to the 1938 heavily edited version. But I stand firm that the first version of Kong that I saw did have that brunette dropped from Kongs hand in New York, because as a kid i would later look for it and too often it wouldn't be there. Likewise the chomping, squishing, stripping, sniffing scenes mentioned.
I used to count the sailors from the time they passed through the gate to rescue Ann, to the number attacked by the Brontosaurus, and those knocked off the log... Sometimes the number would add up to the "12 members of our party that met horrible deaths," from Armstrong's (aka Carl Denham) on-stage speech, and sometimes not. I think that when I freeze framed the film once I actually counted 14 or 15 sailors (including Cabot & Armstrong) running through the gate, down to I think 8 or 9 when Cabot makes it across the log, with 6 or 7 on the log, and Armstrong pulling up the rear. I'll have to watch my video/s again and do a few pause counts to be sure.
But between King Kong being shown in its 100-104 minute length, cut down to fit 90 minute time slots, with commercials, I've noticed an awful lot of cuts at different times while growing up, everything from missing the overture, to what appears to have been akin to that 1938 censor butcher, and worse. Boy I wished I could have been around to have seen the "original" 125 minute film with those tricerotops and spiders, et al. before any of those later edits cut it down.
I grew up loving anything Kong and thrilled (& mused) over "Son of Kong" (where was mom?), the Styracosaurus attack, the giant short faced bear battle with "baby" Kong, and more.
My only dissappointments were that the movie was so short and that Kong, Jr. drowned, and Skull Island was destroyed, thereby preventing any further visits and sequels to my horrifyingly favorite fantasy island.
To think that island had stood for millions of years, and then just decided to sink beneath the waves, at that particular time, like a lost Atlantis.
Every time I see King Kong, and I can and have watched it, over and over again, dozens of times,... I find myself ever more amazed at the incredible attention to detail, and ground breaking special effects of that day that perhaps have never been equaled.
I remember reading during the early film shoots that the animators could see their actual "fingerprints" on Kong's hide of trimmed rabbit fur. They thought that the whole movie would be trashed because it took so long to film those sequences. But what the viewers, including myself, saw was Kong's rippling muscles beneath that fur causing the hair to bristle on his back and legs, as he strained in combat or against that great gate. It made Kong appear even more life-like and added to his character.
Max Steiner's score in Kong was and still is phenomenal! I beleive that it was the first time that a film score had been integrated as an integral part of any film, and in the case of Kong, became a major character in its own right, throughout the entire movie. I cannot even imagine Kong without the Steiner soundtrack. But when I listen to that soundtrack I can imagine the entire film.
I'm so jazzed now I'm going to have to dig out my old Kong videos, find that Peter Jackson remake, and have an all night mini Kong film festival! (After Tarzan, of course)
When it comes to King Kong, I hope I never grow up!
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Hmmm.... That's an interesting possibility, Kriegerg69.
I used to be crazy about anything that had my favorite "monsters" in them (be they Universal, RKO, or from whomever).
I collected bubblegum cards, magzines, models, anything that I could get my hands on, and yes I do recall seeing those images...
But, in my mind, I was watching TV as a much younger child, in mid 1950s S. Calif. Possibly saw some Kong movie of the week showing, and it had scenes in it that were later removed (i.e. the head biting, squishing, & sniffing scenes) and still later edited back in. It was at that time that my mental image of the spider pit scene first began, and this was long before I was old enough to begin collecting stuff on my own.
However, the mind is a quirky organ, capable of making dreams seem real, and reality seem like a dream, so I will concede the possibility that I "created" the mental scenario from still images that I may have seen at that time, but do not recall.
However, if that is what I did, then it does fit the definition of childhood confabulation.... As long as I don't start doing the same thing today, I should be alright for a few more years, at least,... I hope ????
But its still a mystery to me.
Any possibilty that some Calif. studio actually had access to one of those original director's cuts, and played it on a local commercial station. Then later that print was either reedited or lost?
If that could have happened I feel certain that there must still be at least a few others still alive that saw the same thing, and perhaps harbor those same "memories." If there are any TCM fans out there that share this common "memory" bond, please speak up! I know stranger things have happened.
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Apparently you are correct, on both counts.
I've searched high & low and cannot find a copy of the original release of "Johnny Got His Gun" anywhere.
Yes, TCM did show the most complete edit apparently available.
I've read that the spider pit scene was removed from Kong long ago,... long before I should have been able to have viewed it in the mid 1950's on television.
Yet that memory has been with me since then, long before Peter Jackson's version of what he thought it must have been, based on whatever limited archival stills & footage he was able to view.
So I don't know where my mind picked that scene up, if I actually never saw it.
All of my mental faculties are still intact, for what that's worth, so I know that I'm not confabulating.
Yet, as you say, I should never have been able to have seen it,... according to the "records."
tis a mystery.
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I grew up on and nostalgically love all of the old universal "monster' originals.
Like Swithin, I too own a legacy DVD collection of the same.
I haven't gone the way of BlueRay yet, perhaps I don't want to spoil the enjoyment I derive from my "old" technologiy DVDs, and out-of-date VHS tapes, but I'm wondering how BlueRay can "improve" upon what I already have when it comes to these particular classics?
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I'm not replying to anyone in particular but to the thread as a whole.
I remember when TCM aired "Johnny Got His Gun" a couple of years back. It was the same edited video release that I'd already seen.
I, and a few others vividly remembered the original 1971 theatrical release and the first time that it was broadcast on television in the 1990s. Since that time there were a few seconds removed from several scenes, for only god & the censors know why.
I caught a couple of the deletes myself: brief frontal nudity, and a slightly more explicity implied scene of **** of poor Johnny by a compassionate nurse.
None-the-less, the movie and its message was, and still is, exceptionally powerful, and this was, and sadly probably is, the most complete version of this Dalton Trumbo classic currently available, so I do not fault TCM. They did not edit the film, and Only those of us who remember will ever know what was actually missing. And "Johnny" is a film that deserves to be seen again, and again.
However, there is another editing that has haunted me since I was a child.
I remember, as a kid, seeing my favorite movie of all-time on TV (King Kong, 1933) and vividly remembered the crab or spider sequence that followed those hapless sailors that were knocked off that giant log by Kong into that primieval chasm.
When I was a teen I even paid to see a matinee release of the "unedited original" movie on the big screen. There was a minute or so of edits restored to the earlier television versions, i.e. Kong biting the heads off of people and chewing them up, and squishing them in the mud with his foot. And a funny little scene on the cliff where he partially disrobed an unconscious Fay Wray and sniffed his fingers after doing so. Evidently those restored scenes had been thought too violent and too explicit for a younger audiences eyes, but nowhere was the "spider" scene from my youthful memory.
After watching this movie so many times I began to think that perhaps I had only imagined there was such an original scene. Then came the Peter Jackson remake.
He was as much enamoured with Kong as I, and in his video he recalled and even tried to recreate the scene which had long been in my memory.
Where the original edited scene is today nobody seems to know, but at least Peter and I can remember that it was once really there, and not a fable of our minds.
None-the-less I am always very happy whenever TCM airs my old favorite, as incompletely complete as the version is.
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It was a closed system, likely made possible due to the advent of VCRs, but I remember a night in the No-Tell-Motel with my future ex-wife. There were mirrors on the ceiling, a hot-tub, a coin operated vibrating bed, and a coin box for closed circuit pornographic videos that would play on one of the TV channels. we stayed up all night reading excerpts from "The Sensuous Man," "The Sensuous Woman," and "The Sensuous Couple."
I think it was in the early 1970s. I can't really be sure, but I think that some of those movies were classics.
Ahhh, sweet memories!
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I agree with you Fred, all films are dated.
I think that is part of the charm.
When I see one of those TCM shorts that rag on how the Jazz age in 1920s-30s is going to corrupt the morals of a generation, it makes me smile.
They were dead serious, but I heard those same fears expressed in the 50s about R&R and now I have my own doubts about head-bangers and rap music. So this is an age old theme that probably every generation has faced from the dawn of ritualized music.
I found the dialogue in TBYOOL to be as understandable and relevant (for me anyway) today as it likely was then. But then I'm not that far removed from the WW2 generation. On the flip side, when I converse with many of the younger people today, many times they haven't a clue as to what I'm talking about. Not that I don't make sense, but some of the colloquialisms that I grew up with and sometimes still use don't make sense to them. I'm a pretty adaptable guy, and if they are truly interested in the conversation I don't mind explaining in more common terms that they can understand, but it reminds me how quickly the vernacular of the day can change.
BTW, one of my favorite monologues from one of our favorite movies is when Freddy, supposedly intoxicated, stands up and relates a little parable about how he applied his banking experience (and jargon) in a tactical combat situation. Words to the effect that, one day his commander approached him and said sergeant, we must take that hill. Where upon Fred replies, Sir, I don't think we have the assets necessary to take that hill. To which the commander replied, none-the-less, we must take that hill. Fred then resolutely responds, Sorry sir, but no collateral, no hill.
So the hill wasn't taken, and we lost the war.
There's a moral to that story, but I'm too intoxicated to remember what it was.... Myrna smiles, she knows the moral.
That story, like an insider joke, wasn't for everybody in the audience, but it was for those who did understand the moral to explain it to those who didn't,... when, or if, they asked.
Great piece of script writing (and an excellent delivery by Freddy). And, in my opinion, generationally timeless.
Oh and BTW, I ditto that observation 100% ValeskaSuratt.
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So what did you do Finance, register under a different name so that you could agree with yourself?
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I remember seeing I'LL NEVER FORGET YOU as a kid and loved it.
I was drawn to Christopher Reeve & Jane Seymour in SOMEWHWERE IN TIME (1980), because it reminded me a bit of the earlier movie. But it wasn't until last night that I saw the "original" version, BERKELEY SQUARE (1933) with Leslie Howard. I am very greatful to TCM for finally showing it.
It also reminded me of another "differently familiar," themed fantasy time-travel movie that I also saw as a kid and enjoyed (and wish that TCM would air sometime): THE REMARKABLE ANDREW (1942) with William Holden and Brian Donlevy.
It got me to thinking about other movie remakes that I first saw before I had any idea that there was an earlier, or in some cases several earlier, versions.
I long thought that 3 GODFATHERS (1948), with John Wayne, was an original, and loved it. Then on TCM I watched THREE GODFATHERS (1936), with Chester Morris, and later, HELL'S HEROES (1930) with Charles Bickford, and found myself appreciating all three films, though practically word for word/scene for scene repeats of each other. Now I've discovered that there is another, older, silent version: THE THREE GODFATHERS (1916), with Harry Carey, that I wish TCM could gain access to and air for me (us) to see and enjoy!
When I first saw PYGMALION (1938) with Leslie Howard & Wendy Hiller I was amazed that it was practically an exact duplicate of one of my favorite musicals: MY FAIR LADY (1964), with Audrey Hepburn & Rex Harrison. I kept expecting Leslie and Wendy to break out in familiar song, but they didn't
I remembered seeing another intermediate rendition of the Shaw play as a child: KITTY (1945) with Paulette Goddard & Ray Milland, that I thoroughly enjoyed, long before the 1964 remake was made.
Once I discovered that they were all based on the same George Bernard Shaw play, the similarities ceased to surprise me, but did stimulate me to seek out the Greek mythological roots and begin reading Ovid.
By the time PRETTY WOMAN (1990) with Richard Gere & Julia Roberts came around I had become quite familiar with the theme!
I'm really enjoying this Star of the Month tribute to Leslie Howard.
Prior to TCM I'd only really remembered seeing him in a few, sometimes secondary roles such as in GWTW (1939) and THE 49th PARALLEL (1941), THE PETRIFIED FOREST (1936), OF HUMAN BONDAGE (1934), and, of course, THE SCARLET PIMPERNEL (1934).
Through watching his films and Robert Osbornes comentary I am gaining a greater appreciation for this complex man who was of Jewish Prussian stock, a WWI veteran, shot down by German Messerschmitts while enroute to neutral Lisbon during WW II. The plane wreakage, bodies of passengers & crew, along with all but German photographic evidence, sinking to the bottom of the English Channel to be lost, perhaps forever. The curious circumstances of his sudden demise have lead some to speculate & rumor that he may have been on an obscure mission for British Intelligence ????
As usual, thanks to Mr. Fred C. Dobbs for the links to always interesting tidbits of info
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I think that Drew is lovely, and in no way warrants such a ruthless comparison as you've made with Michael Jackson.
That tragic figure turned a good-looking black-man into an ugly white woman.....
I have no idea where you're coming from with that petty jab!
That aside, did anyone else experience deja vous in watching a repeat of last Saturday evenings "Alice Adams" essentials...?????
I swear that this was shown earlier this year in either late March or sometime in April.
I even recall the same surprize when Robert asked Drew in the end commentary if she'd read the book, and she said no, and he said that he had some bad news... in the book the ending was nothing like the movie...
Why this Robert & Drew "essentials" re-run at this early time? Can anybody put forward a logical answer?
if you spend much time here you will find this place to be a diverse group of opinionated oldsters, youngsters and in-betweeners, but we all seem to share a common love of movies in general and classic movies in particular (whatever that term means to the individual viewer). 
The Mountain
in Your Favorites
Posted
That's right!
Tracy did have about 30 years on Wagner, age wise. Much easier to take as an uncle or father than a much, much older brother.
Let's see, my grandmother had 11 kids, the oldest born around 1925, the youngest was born in 1950... well that's a 25 year difference, so I guess thirty years is pushing the envelope, but well within probability.
Heck, Tony Randal had a kid shortly before he passed on in his 80's, of course he had a much, much younger wife at the time, but if he had a son when he was a young man of 20 or so, there could even be a 50 or 60 year difference between step brothers.
I can't remember if in THE MOUNTAIN the two had the same mom or not?
If I remember, Tracy's character had some part in rearing his younger brother, and felt he was somehow to blame for his bad behavier.
I wonder if the novel (by Henry Troyat) is still available? It might enlighten us as to the birth circumstance a bit, (if it wasn't just a casting call?)
Just checked, it's out of print.
According to wikipedia Henry Troyat (1911 – 2007) "wrote over a 100 books, novels and biographies, (all in French) among them those of Anton Chekhov, Catherine the Great, Rasputin, Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Ivan the Terrible and Leo Tolstoy. Troyat's best-known work is "La neige en deuil," which was adapted as an English-language film in 1956 under the title "The Mountain." "
Sounds like a writer that I'd enjoy, if more of his works were translated into English.