rohanaka

How about "the Duke" and Lee Marvin in "Donovan's Reef", rough, and yet quite funny I love the bit where they are fighting the Australian's and (in order to even up the teams) the one guy tells his brother "Turn your hat aorund, you are now a Yank".. ha.

My favorite part right now in the Danagher fight is the English gentleman who sits in the bar quietly reading his newspaper through the whole thing! Ha.... I love that bit. In fact I love that whole entire portion of the movie.... SO many moments like that one just crack me up everytime. ha. (wasn't old Francis a HOOT getting up out of that sick bed to come a runnin' once he heard WHO was fighting?? ha) we can just be bloodthirsty together, I guess. Ha... must be one of those "family" traits we have in common!! ha. RE: the Shane fight.. OH ME. That one literally has me on the edge of my seat EVERYTIME I watch it. Just looking at the screencaps makes me relive it all over again. It is so intense, and it goes on SO long, and the punches are just so "real" sounding... UGH. It just about TURNS my stomach.... and yet... I HAVE to watch... (ha.. the bloodthirst can't be denied.. )

The truth that he is a knuckle-headed squirrel We HAVE a winner!! ha.

She said as much when 10 minutes into the movie You know.. I started OUT liking her a lot (just because of how she handled that whole scene) but alas.... ha. I have a LOW tolerance for greedy, selfish people..ha

What truth did Dix have a difficult time dealing with? Oh there you go again, Mr Screencaps... ha. Holding me accountable with my every little word...ha. It's been a couple of weeks now since I watched the youtube of this movie... and I have not had a chance to go over it with the finetooth comb that you have (Ha) Maybe "truth" was the wrong choice of words. I probalby could have worded that better. I SHOULD have said he had issues with dealing with STRESS and a track record of buckling under pressure. He flew off the handle WAY too easily and THAT certainly COULD have been something that would have kept him from listening to her had she told him about her police visit. I am not saying SHE knew that yet, but I am saying that it might not have made much difference to them both in the end. If she had said "this is what happened to me today, and this is what the police are still saying about you" blah blah blah.... it would have been the HONEST thing to do. But I think it was only a matter of time before Dix's personality flaws were going to come out... and she was going to get an EYEFULL of his "temper". And I think also HE too might have eventually found out HER issues as well. And again, (I mentioned this earlier) they COULD have been married to one another before they both realized what a MISTAKE they were as a couple. So (no I am not saying the end always justifies the means) but I am saying that their real troubles were GOING to come out sooner or later.. and that pointing to THAT incident (her withholding the visit to the police) to me only gives it a "date". To me it does not lay the blame at her feet (the way you seem to see it) It could JUST have easily been SOMETHING ELSE some other day, that set him off and made her run scared, because I think it was inevitable. His anger control problems (and her problems too) were GOING to come out SOMEHOW. That's good! Rip and Vance are selfish snakes! Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah... HA!! But you are the Queen of the Furies. WHERE have I put my ROYAL Scissors?????????????????? PS: Miss Maven: ?IN A GRIMESY PLACE HAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (and HA) Edited by: rohanaka on Nov 12, 2009 12:10 PM

movieman1957 wrote: I think one of the reasons Jeff and Ronda like each other so much, is as you say, they are so much alike. They are determined to get the job done no matter what. They see it in each other and what begins as kind of a mutual respect can become more. Miss G says: I think Ronda cares more about the profit than getting the job done. With Jeff, the same, though he probably likes being a rancher, too You either buy from Gannon/Ronda or....pretty much the little guys get squeezed out. Yes, it's all about greed with Gannon and Ronda---and even Jeff to a certain extent, though he doesn't take from others.. April, I agree about the whole GREED thing. I think Ronda (and the judge) wanted to take advantage of people when they are either the most desperate, or when they are themselves the most greedy because they will pay ANY price to get what they want (under those conditions) She and the Judge knew that they had folks over a barrel. (especially in Skagway). It was hard for me to really see her in a positive light as she did not mind associating (and working along with) the judge and his henchmen (and even hiring "henchmen" of her own. And I think their plan (at least Ronda's anyway) was to do the SAME thing wherever she went. I could maybe see her wanting to earn enough money to maybe increase her business or maybe make a comfortable life for herself, etc. But coming into Dawson the way she did and trying to push poor Hominy and Grits out of business was where I lost ANY sort of respect I had for her. She flaunted the fact that she was richer, stronger, and more "pleasing to the eye" just to make a buck. And she had NO concern for either the people who were buying from her or the people she was pushing out of business. She did not care about anything except making more money for herself. (that and trying to hook Jeff.... again... for herself) And this is one of the main reasons I found her so hard to like, even though (SPOILER ALERT) she does try to warn Jeff in the end (and is killed). (And PS: I DO like the comparisons to Frenchy... except I don't see her as being as "repentant" as Frenchy in the end.) She may have LOVED Jeff to a degree but, again, I think it was in a selfish way because everything she did revolved around getting what SHE wanted. And I DO think Jeff was attracted to her... but I don't see him as "stuck" on her as she was on him. She really DID seem to have a THING for him, but I don't think his feelings for her ran as deep. Had they "gotten together" I think eventually she would have tried to control him and he would have told her where to get off. (ha) And I also don't see Jeff as being on the same "level" as Ronda when it came to how he viewed using others. (in terms of only wanting what he could get) She was more of (almost) an "exploiter", just seeing dollar signs instead of people most of the time. To me, he was selfish, and perhaps even self centered (especially when it came to dealing with and/or selling those cattle) but at the same time, he DID value his friendship w/ Brennan's character and was able to finally see the light at the end of it all. It just took him a while to become "human". I don't think he was wanting to "exploit" anyone for profit (at least not as a way of life) but more he just wanted to make his money and move on to his ranch and lead his own life. Gee I am sounding "anti Ronda" right now.. ha. Did I at least mention she was GORGEOUS?? ha.

HI there Miss G and Mr. Movieman. Hope I am not too late to get in a few words about The Far Country. (I apologize for taking so long) Miss Goddess says: might as well start by saying that Jimmy's "Jeff Webster" is my all-time favorite character that he ever portrayed. I also think it's the most interesting character among the Anthony Mann collaborations. Because...his history isn't quite as clear as it is in the other movies. In the others, he's got a specific job to do or wrong to avenge, but in TFC it seems a little more like a general cynicism had begun to settle on his soul. I have to agree with you on liking THIS Jimmy best (out of all the Mann?s I have seen w/ him. I think I also like this story a bit more than most of the other Mann?s I have seen w/ Stewart as well. And your description of Jeff?s personality is a good one. (generally cynical) And he also has little concern for much of anything that is not his concern as well. I like his relationship w/ old Walter Brennan though (the bit w/ the pipe was very endearing.) I think Jeff was the kind of guy that DID care for the things that were important to him. But he had only CERTAIN things that he truly cared about. (and so it made him come off a bit cold and yes, cynical as well) Miss G says: P.S. It's also my favorite simply because of the way Stewart plays him. I find it a rather more "controlled" performance and inward. And Stewart is always most compelling to me when he's holding back, when he's a little mysterious Mr Movieman says: He is both isn't he? He's just short of losing it but manages to keep it under control Miss G says: Yes, in other movies he just seems to explode a little more often, earlier in the stories.This one felt like he was more of an icier or more emotionally shut down character, as opposed to a hot-head or a man consumed by a lust for vengeance I think you both have him pegged pretty well. He does have an aire of mystery about him at times. He is not laying all his cards on the table and ?playing them close to the vest? instead. And he does seem to just barely keep himself in check at times. (the ?sham? trial where he loses his cattle is a perfect example) He clearly shows that he COULD have gone off on the judge and his men (and likely blood would have been shed by SOMEONE somewhere along the line) but instead he remains just one breath away from taking action, and holds himself together. Very nicely played. All the characters Jimmy played in Mann's films seem to have been deeply betrayed or wounded in their pasts I agree, April. And that is a good way to describe them (betrayed/wounded). At least it seems that way in most of the ones I can recall . Sometimes we get to hear about ?the past? but a lot of the times, it just is a ?mystery? that plays into the building of the character. His character reminded me of Dunstan in Red River in many respects. "My way or the high way I don?t think he was quite as ?dark? as the Duke was, though. (OH my golly was ANYBODY as ?dark? as THAT character?? HA) Judge Gannon is positively my favorite John McIntyre performance. I even think I like his "judge" better than Walter Brennan's in The Westerner or Samuel Hinds in Destry Rides Again. He is terribly foxy but you can see he still enjoys watching human nature and trying to guess what each person will do. He likes Jeff and he likes Ronda but liking anyone is never going to interfere with his decision making. I thought he was one of the BEST acted characters in the entire movie. (but in truth, there were a LOT of fine performances) I was just going to say that he seemed to enjoy the ?humor? in some of the situations that kept popping up with Jeff. I think he was used to people just rolling over and letting him hang them (or take their property) and Jeff made it more of a challenge and I think he enjoyed it. He DID seem to like a good ?battle? of wits. But in the end, he was SUCH a low life jerk of a THUG, I am GLAD for the way he went down. And again, I loved all the characters in this movie. Brennan was WONDERUL (as always) a bit simple minded, devoted, and humorous (and still TRAGIC and Pathetic) all at the same time. And I LOVED how he ?knew? his place in his relationship with Jeff (as in Jeff was the ?boss) but still he stood up to him and told him ?your wrong? on more than one occasion. He made Jeff see that no matter how ?hard? he felt he had to be, he was still a human being and he needed to act like one. It was a good role. And I also loved ?Freckle Face? Rene and her Papa. And Grits and Hominy (oh BOY did I like them) In all honesty, Ronda was in my opinion one of the less ?believable? characters. She just seemed TOO perfect and ?smooth? for me. The other characters seemed a bit more ?natural?. But I could just be judging her too harshly because she was a ?bad girl? ha. (though ME oh MY wasn?t she GORGEOUS?) Mr Movieaman says: Jimmy said Pie understood about the camera and when he was "on." He knew what and where to go. Wow, what a sweet story. I love these little personal notes on the real people (and even the real horses, ha) behind the characters I have a bit more to add but will stop for now. Again, I apologize for taking SO long to get here. (I am such a slacker) ha.

Being dishonest about issues that are very important to the person you love is a serious betrayal. Ok.... I agree with your statement in general, Mr. Grey... but I don't agree (as you already know) that Laurel was "betraying" Dix so much as she let him down. I really DO think she was more or less of a mindset that she THOUGHT she was doing him a favor (by NOT bringing it up all over again) but it all backfired on her because not only did it cause him to feel she was being "untrue" but it also allowed her to become susceptable to all the suggestion and inuendo that was going on all around her. It was a BIG mistake. But I do not see it as a betrayal. To me that implies a willfull act of purposely working against someone. And I DON'T see her doing that I think (from all I am seeing you write about Laurel) that you seem to be placing a LOT of heavy blame on this mixed up mess of a gal. (YOU of all people... the GREYest of the GREY... how very black and white of you..ha) And while she WAS wrong in so many ways, I don't think she had any sort of sinister intent to mislead or misrepresent herself to Dix. And I really don't think she set out to BETRAY him. I think she got in over her head and I think she just was NOT a strong enough person to handle all the "issues" that came along with Dix and his life. She had too many of her own. I think her failure to tell Dix about her inteview w/ the police was an error in judgement. I think she SHOULD have told him the truth. And obviously in HINDSIGHT she learned that lesson too late. But I don't think she withheld the truth from him out of some sense of "I'm going to betray this man and mislead him" But the troubles at the beach and the fight w/ Joe College were the end result of her mistake, and from that point on, her other attempts to withhold her true feelings from him (about the doubts she was having) were borne out of her fears (based on what she was seeing from DIX's own behavior) and from piecing together the things she had heard others say. So again, I don't see her as being sinister and betraying him so much as I see her as a weak and flawed person who made some honest mistakes. Was she wrong not to 'clear the air" and really talk it all out with him? Of course she was. But another thing to consider is that he obvioulsy had big issues dealing with the truth (when he did not want to hear it) so he may not have listened to her anyway. He could STILL have reacted in anger and the end result would have been the same. I think (if I am reading you right) you see Dix as the victim in all of this, and I just can't see him that way. Let's face it. Laurel was NOT the only one making mistakes. And Dix had a LOT of issues. He was not just some poor innocent guy. He had a LOT of "baggage". I think in the end, they BOTH let each other down. But hey, I also know that at the end of the day, I am not going to convince you and you are not going to convince me. But the best part is, we don't HAVE to. I enjoy getting to see a glimpse of all the varying ideas and opinions that one film can create. That is what makes all these chats so much fun. Hey.. Let's ride over to the FURIES and visit Rip and Vance...ha THEY were EASY to figure out compared to THESE two. ha.

I agree w/ SCSU.... in fact, the Danaher/Thornton fight (especially the last punch) is my favorite for any movie fight scene EVER. (I know..ha. WHAT a surprise... ha) But then (at least for my money) nobody has more "punching power on screen" than the Duke. (I love his fights in both his comedies... and his dramas) He just puts all of himself right into the middle of it Truthfully, (although I do like to see Wayne fight when he is defending someone or teaching somebody a lesson when it is called for) I mostly like a good laugh w/ my movie fight scenes so his more "comedy" driven punches are among my most favorite. Another "classic" Duke fight moment: Apart from John Wayne films in general, I also like the fight scene (early on) in Sergeant York (when Alvin is off drinking and his younger brother comes to get him) Alvin is tearing up the place (and getting thrown around a bit himself) and all the while the little brother is sitting there with the shot gun waiting patiently (with this unimpressed look on his face), "Ma wants ya, Alvin". That is a favorite movie line around our house (but you have to say it with the same slow backwoods drawl) Too funny. (but what can I say, we are easily entertained, ) ha. And one other BIG favorite for me is the "boxing lesson" given to the cruel schoolmaster in How Green Was My Valley. Just about my favorite lines in the whole film: Dai Bando: I'm afraid he will never make a boxer. Cyfartha: No aptitude for knowledge. Ha... I love to see that rotten thug get his "comeuppance" ha. Good gravy, just LOOK at all the violence I have added here on this page... ha. I could keep going and going (listing more films) I am sure. Oh my golly, I had NO idea I was so bloodthirsty.. ha. (fun topic, Ms Favell) :-)

DAG-NAB-IT!! THINGS MOVE FAST HERE AT TCM CITY. Why it was only September when... Ha... you took the words right out of my mouth, youngun. (at least about how fast stuff moves around here sometimes) I have been such a slacker lately (with far too much going on) that I have not even had much time to just barely skim through all the great looking caps of lovely Rita that Miss G and the Grey Dude have been posting. I need to go back in a read through all that stuff.... it looks TERRIFIC. And the last time I talked to the Grey Dude... I had told him I would get into it with him over The Third Man... and I have not even had time to re-watch it after I taped it, lo these several weeks ago.... I can't believe how quickly I have allowed myself to get behind... To borrow from Steve Miller, "Time keeps on slippin', slippin', slippin," (Ha) 'Scuse me for reaching back two months. Thought if I wrote short and sweet, you wouldn't mind MIND???? Doggone, little Missy, you've got me curiouser and CURIOUSER now about wanting to see TRM (I wasn't kidding about having it on my list). I only HOPE I can come across it sometime soon. (I love your short and sweet... but now you gotta go a little further and tell me more..ha. I am one of those who doesn't MIND the spoilers... it will make me look forward to the movie even more and give me tons of stuff to think about whenever I DO finally get to watch it.

He was mad at Laurel, and so he beat some guy almost to death. He is in fact, not beating up Joe College, he is in effect beating up LAUREL in this scene, and Laurel KNOWS it. She knows what set him off. THAT is why she is afraid of Dix. Bingo! (at least that was a big part of it... because now, along with what she was hearing she was seeing it for herself) (PS Mr. Squirrel.... I may not see your thoughts on Laurel and Dix "eye to eye' but WOW... mighty fine screencapping, sir)

Isn't Willy the cutest little thing in boot leather Too cute for words, to be sure!! ha. I'd say this is the only real 'Captain' around here Ha... I love it... and with that GREY dude and all his antics.... we likely COULD use a little "blood and swash" around here now and then!! ha.

Congrats to Ms Cutter (PS.. Blood Alley!! Ha.. from YOUR keyboard to TCM'S EARS!! ha) :-) Very good work, ma'am. :-) And congrats to ALL you daring "schedule makers" too. Just participating at all makes you winners in my book. You are way out of my league!! Good work, everybody. And thanks again to the "Hostess with the Most-est!! Great job, Miss Maven! :-)

Will says: Yee haw!!! Congrats to Miss G for 20,000 WONDEFUL posts! :-) Don't football players retire their numbers? I think it's time I retired mine Perish the thought young'un. You are the team captian... NO retirement allowed!! ha. (PS... you don't need to shoot that Shiftless rascal... Willy Boy has come prepared to help... as you can see, he's brought us PLENTY of extra rope! HA!) PSS... I finally got a chance to rewatch TFC... I hope to be back after while... thanks for you patience. :-)

Whew! I'm worn out and am laying down my sword. Monsieur Laffitee, you have been a foeman worthy of my STEELE Wowsa.... talk about your epic battles... :-) I am seeing a lot of different statements here (after reading through all this again) and between everyone's various points of view there has to be some sort of common ground. (though I am not sure we will ever find it...ha) Maybe it is in agreeing that WHOEVER is to blame... or whoever it was that started the ball rolling in the wrong direction... we all seem to basically agree that Dix was too violent and that Laurel was too scared for either of them to be of any good to the other. Miss G, I want to just say that I do perhaps see what you and the Grey Dude are saying about Dix being justified in his anger (regarding Laurel's decision to keep her visit to the police a secret) and how that sort of causes the "chain reaction" of other events that happen later on. We all agree that he OVER reacted... but it is easy to see why he was angry. But I also think I understand at least in part WHY she would keep it to herself... perhaps out of fear... but maybe even out of a sense of thinking she was protecting him... but it was the wrong choice and it certainly worked against both of them in the end. I mentioned the "domino effect" earlier and how one thing led to another that led to another... for both of them... they just kept knocking each other's dominoes down until things got totally out of control. But it was not totally their own faults as others had a hand in it all as well. There were a lot of "domino pushers" in this story. I still wonder what things would have been like for them if the whole murder "thing" would never have happened. And this may be the bottom line for me. Miss G, I know you have said that you think that the right woman COULD have had a positive effect on Dix and that he may have changed with her love and trust.... and while I may agree to a point, because I think that anything is possible, I just am not able to see it entirely that way. (and PS... this is probaly a moot point as I really don't think she WAS the right woman for him as she clearly had too many issues of her own, so I am basing my thoughts in a general way here) I think when it comes to people with anger control issues like Dix, that statistics show a lot of battered women were thinking just that same thought (that if they loved their man enough and took care of him more, he would change) when they entered into relationships w/ someone who was violent ... and then they found out differently only after it was too late. The QT and I both know of someone in our family who has issues w/ reacting violently (and with great anger) when challenged. And sadly, (speaking only from a SMALL amount of experience, compared to others) I believe that people like Dix will only change if they WANT TO or if they are led to after receiveing medical or spiritual help. Sadly, this person in our family is not a part of our lives any more... and I can tell you that although this individual is missed and prayed for with love EVERYDAY, we do not miss their violence, or their anger. You can put an angry person in a loving environment and give them every advantage... but that does not always take the angry out of them... no matter how stable, loving, and patient one tries to be. And I don't think this person will EVER find any peace or happiness until they are able to get the kind of spiritual and perhaps even mental help they need. Now bringing it all back to our film here, I think unless Dix somehow got help that was bigger than just the right woman in his life.. he was still going to have issues anytime he got too stressed or anytime he felt someone was harrassing him or causing a problem in his life. He just had no lasting self control. And even without the murder investigation hanging over his head, it was only a matter of time before SOMETHING else came along and put him under stress and caused him to act out. And I think it was bettter for both of them for Laurel to find out sooner rather than later. (Imagine how AWFUL it would be had they married and had children... and then one day something sets him off and a "Joe College" incident happened with the kids in the car.) Now as to Mr. Grey's question earlier, about whether a woman should trust her man.... (and I will go further and take it to ... should she stand by her man) the answer to both is yes.. and no. Ha. How do you like THAT for a "grey answer" ha. Trust is a funny thing. It is not something that can just be "given" to someone you love. Or at least it should not be. And yet there has to be a BASIC level of trust that we all start out with if we ever TRULY want to be in a relationship with someone else. But lasting trust (real trust) comes from gettting to know a person over time. And getting to understand what makes them WHO they are from the inside out. And I don't think Dix and Laurel had that sort of trust yet... because they had not been together long enough... and also because they did not really KNOW the other person. They only THOUGHT they did. So... while I think they let each other down... I do not think EITHER of them could have been expected to truly trust the other. Dix made HIS mistake by taking for granted that he COULD trust Laurel... And Laurel made her mistakes by not TRYING to get to know who Dix really was before she found herself in a position where she would need to trust him. (is any of that making sense?) So in a way, they both let the other down. And as to whether she should have "stood by him" if she "loved him.... and not allowed herself to be so influenced by others... I think that if you truly LOVE someone..you will not allow yourself to be influenced by what others say as much as by what you know for yourself. But it can be hard (again) if you have not had time to build trust in one another. They had not had enough time to really move out of the "romantic love" in their relationship and move on to a deeper, truer love for one another... If you TRULY love someone, (and I am basing this more off of what I believe to be a Biblical definition of love, based on 1Corinthians Chapter 13) you will seek their very best in ALL things no matter what. You will go out of your way to be patient with them in all things, and you will want better for them than you do for yourself. And I also think you will also expect them to be their best in all things too.... and that means that you will try to encourage them to do right when you see them going down a path that will harm them. I think when you TRULY love someone, you will seek THEIR welfare above your own in everything you do. But I do not think that a woman (or a man) is obligated to "stand by" or " trust" anyone when someone they love is CLEARLY harming themselves and/or someone else. (especially physically) but in other ways as well. I do not believe that it is ever right to just turn a blind eye to someone who is blatantly seeking to harm themself or another person (even in a "moment" of anger or passion, etc) Everyone has a bad day now and then... but when you start so see a pattern of this sort of behaior.... I don't think anyone is ever obligated out of love to just "look past it" all and let it go. That isn't love.. that is "enabling" And sadly.. .I think that is what a lot of people who claimed to love Dix (ESPECIALLY Laurel and his agent friend) did for him by looking past a lot of his faults and his angry outbursts. They became his enablers rather than truly loving him in a way that would make a positive difference in his life. I don't think anyone (who loved him) EVER told Dix off "for his own good". And to me... THAT is what a loving person would do. (As in: "Dix.... I love you, I want you to be happy... but I can't stay with you any more so long as you are violent. I know you don't want to hear this, but you need help. I will work with you everyway I can to get you that help and we can get through this together, but we cannot keep going on this way." ) Now THAT would have been standing with him... even if you were left standing from far away. And maybe EVENTUALLY that would have been a way that trust COULD have been built (over time) It is GOOD to know who your real friends are (and who really loves you) And perhaps eventually.... if even ONE of his friends... or if Laurel had tried a little harder to TRULY help him, Dix MAY have come to see that they meant it for his good. But then again... there are no guarantees. A person like Dix is not going to truly change unless they want to... or unless (and I TRULY believe this) they are led to either by receiving medical or spiritual help... or both) I think even before Mildred, Dix was a tragic, and very sympathetic man who truly was (both mentally and emotionally) in a "lonely place" (perhaps not totally of his own making.) And I also think that Laurel had far too many "tragic" issues of her own to ultimatley be anything but another "domino" pusher in his life. With or without all the "Mildred" stuff stirring up trouble for them... sooner or later, they woulld have parted ways. Ok... I meandered a bit on all this... thanks for putting up w/ me folks. Hope this all made at least a little sense.

John Ford says: 6000 posts??? Thanks for wasting so many of them on me Our beloved BEN Says: 6000 POSTS????? Aw shucks ma'am... THANKS for spending so many of them on ME!!!! Congrats Ms Favell... here's to 6000 MORE!! :-)

Hi Miss G... and Mr. Movieman.. thanks for getting us started... I am going to try and get this one watched later today, and then I will be back. (I saw it several months ago for the first time, but I have not seen it since... and I want to refresh my memory) I am SO sorry I have been such a slacker lately... I will have to do better or I will end up having to have my OWN necktie party... ha. (perish the thought!) ha. Jackie... glad to see you are going to give this one a try... and I hear Miss Maven is heading our way too... WOO HOO. We are going to make a Western gal out of her yet. Maybe by the time we get everybody up and running, that Mad Hat Dude and the SHIFTLESS One will show up as well. And if not... we'll have to see if we can DRAG them in... ha. (Or I won't be the ONLY one at that necktie party.... ha!!)

Wow.. I was busy all day yesterday... and this morning I was out marching w/ a bunch of little girls from our church's scouting troop in a Veterans' Day Parade (SALUTE to all you folks who serve) and I come back now and just LOOK at all the cool stuff going on in here!! ha. (did I mention WOW??) ha. But I am so far behind now that by the time I get a chance to read through all of what I am sure are some really good insights here.... I will be even FURTHER behind than I am. But I will try to get to it all later... as I do want to see what everyone is thinking here. I did sort of gloss over some of what has been said... and it looks to me like we are maybe getting close to hammering out all the little details of what it is that makes Dix tick... Laurel maybe not yet, though.. Good evening, Toastmaker -- Don't you burn my crust! Ha.... sawdust toast comes w/ the crust off Mr. Plain Food Guy. I actually had that commercial in mind, too Doofy Minds think alike!! ha. Oh no.. What if I have caught April's "Grey Virus' ha. We are starting to think the same... ! YIKES.... I may have to go back and view some Once Upon a Blah Blah Blah "FRANK" footage!! ha. That will snap me back out of it..ha. Dix told "Joe College" to "take it easy." Then the guy throws the "$200 paint job" line at Dix. If Dix's anger is over the top, I believe "Joe College's" is also way over the top. And then "Joe College" shoves this in the face of Dix: Ok.. you do have a point that young Joe was a HOThead. But who wouldn't be?? Maybe he did get a bit out of line... but again... I think he was justifiably and understandbly angry... whereas Dix was just plain old MAD. And yes... maybe Joe was in the wrong to a certain degree... but this was a case where Dix was wrong FIRST.. then Joe College was wrong... and then DIX got to a point where he was MORE wrong still. It was just a big snowball of error crashing down on everyone.. but DIX is the one who started the ball rolling and he holds the brunt of the blame. (As in: 3 wrongs dont' make a right) Anyway.... I am glad Monsieur Laffite is here gunning with me on this one..ha. He did a good job of answering on this, so all I can add is... " Yeah, what he said"..ha. Nicely done! That is precisely it. Trust. Who are you going to believe, the man you love or everyone else? If your answer is not your man, you and he are in trouble. I think (along w/ listening to all the wrong people) Laurel made a lot of other mistakes too... almost from the beginning. But certainly from the point of the beach scene on... She did have a LOT of doubts about him after that. And she should have TOLD him.... at the onset of them. I think if she had said she couldn't trust him anymore after his incident with JoeCollege (and I am saying the next day.. not right at that moment when he was still furious) then the two of them may have parted ways, but neither of them would have been NEARLY so hurt by the way things turned out. At the very least when things really started to go sour, she should never have agreed to marry him.... but by then she was so afraid of him, I think she thought she had no choice but to go along with him just to pacify him (and then try to make a break for it). And given the way he was so obviously coming apart at the seams (as April and Laffite have already discussed) I think she had good reason to be afraid, because by THAT point it may have been too late for a rational discussion with him. However.... most of the reason he was behaving so "whacko" was BECAUSE he could tell she was not the same as she had been... and (to borrow from April) he could feel her slipping right through his fingers.... and it made him panicky. It was like some sort of sad pathetic "domino" effect playing out... he was coming unglued because she was not acting like "herself".. she was afraid of him becuase he was coming unglued... they just kept going from bad to worse. This whole film is as much about miscommunication as anything... It was going on all over the place... by a LOT of different people. But mostly between Laurel and Dix. They just made too many "judgements" about what the other was doing and thinking... and they took way too much for granted (as far as thinking they really knew one another when they did not) And it did a lot of damage. Laurel and Dix are like the poster children for Miscommunication in a relationship: DON'T let this happen to you. ha. I have a few more thoughts about your question (regarding should a woman "stand by her man") but I will wait a bit more till I read through some of the other comments a bit better.... Carry on folks.. thanks for letting me "jabber" a bit.

Hellooooooo Mr. Squirrel.... You're not going to run me over, are you? No way... I'm not fallin' for THAT one, buster... I KNOW how you are. And, for the most part, he's right. However, it's the violence behind his temper that is wrong. Ha... Well... he is maybe justified in being angry.... some of the time. (like w/ "Junior") But the trouble is, he is not just angry... he's *ANGRY*. He is like a two year old.... on steroids or something. When someone or something upsets him, he just REACTS without thinking. And his reaction it is not anywhere close to appropriate for the "offense" that caused him to get mad. And as for the run in w/ the football player... I'm sticking w/ my story and glad to have the pirate on my side... Dix was WAY out of line. That kid was an innocent bystander who just had the guts to speak up for himself. (And it cost him dearly) If it had not been for Laurel, I truly believe Dix would have killed him. There is no way you can justify that as any sort of righteous anger at being "disrespected". (but you are going to try.. aren't you???? ha) PS: April.... I know you are more sympathetic to poor old Dix than I am... and I DO see some of what you both are saying. He was a "complex' hothead, as you say. And I kept hoping and hoping he'd get past it all. But he just never did. I think I mentioned this before... I WANTED him to overcome his issues and end up happy. And I was pulling for him right up to the bitter end. But alas... As to Laurel... and her share of the "guilt" for the way things turned out... I agree. Some of it DID fall on her... but I think mostly her biggest mistake was in listening to the wrong people... and in NOT trying to be honest w/ Dix about the doubts she was having over his behavior. If she had talked with him BEFORE he got mad.. and not spent so much time deceiving him (even if she was only doing it because she was afraid) I think he may have been able to take what she had to say much more calmly (at least a LOT less violently) than he did. So I can see where what she did may have led him to be angry... but as you say, I do not think her behavior is in any way responsible for HIS reaction. He went too far. There were other things too, that she did that may have played a factor in the way it all worked out, but I will wait to say more until others have a chance to weigh in. I am very interested in seeing how you and the others respond to the question that the grey dude asked about her. He raised an interesting point (about women being faithful to their men) I just need to see how much ROPE I need to give him before I let him hang himself! Ha. And ps... don't worry about agreeing w/ the SHADOW SQUIRREL.... ha. It happens to the best of us now and then. You have the "cure" just right... and a little "dab" will do ya...ha. Take five seconds of "Once Upon A Time in the Blah Blah Blah" (w/ 22 extreme closeup head shots... all in that same 5 second shot..ha) and you will feel like yourself in NO time..ha.

COMING SOON ..... to a discussion near you! Woo Hoo!!!

Well, well, well.... look who finally joined the party.... if it isn't the GREY Squirrel himself. Ha. I'd say Dix is supremely sure of himself which leads to his severe frustration as an artist. Since he is so sure of himself, he isn't fazed by the police questioning him. He's actually shocked they would even consider him for such a crime, which tells you how oblivious he is to his violent anger. He doesn't view it as a problem. I think you are right that in some ways he was "oblivious" about his anger being a problem, at least to a degree. But I do think he knows at least on some level that it is an issue for him too. And I see him as "oblivious" in other ways too. (As in: I don't think it even entered his mind to care about how he came off to people at times.. the police, especially. HE knew he was innocent, why shouldn't THEY?) He was so "self" centered sometims (at least when it came to his opinions) that he just could not see anyone else's ideas as being relevant. It's my belief Dix is to represent the returning soldier and their adjustment troubles. Maybe to a degree. But I don't think the war made him the way he was. I think if anything it may have increased his level of anger and perhaps added fuel to the fire that was always there burning... even if only just below the surface. He was just a "short fuse" kinda guy. I also think it's important to note that two of the guys Dix smacked around were spoiled brats. One was a "junior" while the other was a "college star." And I believe it's vital to recognize that both of these "boys" disrespected Dix and did so with disdain and aggression. Two different kind of mentalities; the returning soldier meets the rich, college boy. I am leaning more to the "short fuse" angle on this one. First of all, (with the football player especially) I don't think he was thinking at all of his service to the country. He was a fairly successful man (at least in the past) in his own right. And I don't think he was mad at those guys for looking down on him as being "less than" they were. I think that he just went off on them for no other real reason than he was mad. He could not take any sort of confrontational tone in anyone even on a good day, but boy, when he was mad... he REALLY had issues with it. In the scene where he gets into it over the cars, look at how he'd just been behaving. He almost killed himself and Laurel (and also the football player too) by his wreckless driving... and then when confronted with it (by a justifiably angry person) he just went over the edge. He needed something to hit.. .and that guy's face was the likeliest target at the moment. Ahhhhh, yes, Laurel Gray. She needs a good spanking. She's gonna get one, too. The word "trust" is going to play a critical role in future spanki... I mean, postings Ha.. I will look forward to hearing more... even if it DOES mean I have to break out my "la la la" HA! Molo says: Kathy, I think I'm warming to your ending idea the more I think about it. Ha.... I have LOTS of alternate ending ideas for all sorts of movies... ha. But I am sure that I am likely just being a "back seat" movie watcher..ha. Who am I to go messing w/ the classics?? ha. Miss Maven says: I thought it was you who was having trouble with Bogart and not just the character of Dix. Correct me please. Hell, I've been wrong before. Ha! So wrong. Ha... Miss Maven.... it's BOTH.. ha. Now to be truthful.... my issues w/ DIX are more character related than "Bogie" related.... but then there's that whole "I still have to get over my HB issues SOMEDAY" thing I've got going on too. So you had it right on both counts. ha The way the ending is now...the way Dix has to walk away from the Glo-lo he loved, how much you want to bet that before Dix's life is over...he actually DOES kill. At the very least... one day he is going to go too far... and get into some SERIOUS trouble with someone. I can see him letting loose ONE too many times... and not stopping himself. And that would be it. He is a ticking time bomb. Watch Hitch do that later with Janet Leigh. Now THERE was a shocker Ha... you are RIGHT... THAT made this little "shocker" with Mildred look like a walk in the park, didn't it? ha. Edited by: rohanaka on Nov 4, 2009 10:50 PM

Hello Monsieur Laffite... WOW what a post. I really like your insight into the chaotic MESS that is Dix..ha. And thanks for going with me on my alternate ending. I liked your additions (And who KNEW there was a REAL alternate ending... thanks for that info, wow.) The ending (just as it was) is a powerful way to wrap up everything. Watching him walk away like that is heartbreaking and I did have sympathy for BOTH of them at that moment. But I guess I just liked the thought of the irony if she HAD killed him because he got so out of control due to her doubts and suspicions about him. (which were brought on not only by all the innuendo, but by his own behavior as well) And then for her to find out only moments later that he was NOT the man she suspected him to be... wow. Now THAT would have been a shocker. ( Almost rather "Twilight Zone-ish... ha. I like a good twist like that now and then) I imagine you are right that the director (at the time this film was made) may have been kept from that sort of ironic twist at the end due to the times and moviegoing ideals of the day. But I bet if this film had been made even a few years later than it was, perhaps it may have ended either more like the novel... or more like our own collaborative effort. you seem to have mixed feelings about Dix, very understandable, especially coming from a woman (it seems to me). Violence against women is a particularly heinous thing and that probably colors your impressions (correct me if I have that wrong). Well, in all honesty, while I agree that I do not like to see ANY thug being a bully and/ or brutalizing anyone (the way he did her) I think the issues I had for him (more than anything) had more to do with being FRUSTATED with his STUPIDITY. For such a smart guy.. he could be SO very dumb sometimes. I was just so aggravated at how little concern he showed about the way he allowed himself to appear before the police (and everyone else.. including Laurel.) Now I am one of the last people on the planet to worry over what I THINK others are thinking about me (believe me, I have WAY too many other things going on that I have to worry over) but I do believe that he only hurt himself by his own foolish behavior. And then there is that whole flying off the handle at the drop of a hat thing. He had NO self control. Perhaps he WAS mentally ill. Perhaps he had social issues (and just did not handle criticism well) Whatever the reason... his violent tendencies were way out of hand. I agree with what Miss G said about how maybe he felt "entitled" as if he were a bit above everyone. I think there WAS a certain mindset like that in him... but I also think he had a self destructive side that maybe was due to some insecurity he felt in his personal life (as in: People only want me for what they can get from me. I am not likeable or worth loving for myself) and so maybe he acted out of anger and pushed it people away to protect himself so he would not feel "used" by them. Which is kind of sad when you think about it, because he was a very likeable guy... when he wasn't being a jerk. (And PS: I agree w/ what was said about the way he treated the thespian... It made him all the more endearing.) But wow... the way he beat up on his friends... and the people who were closest to him... not to mention the way he beat up on total strangers when he lost control of his temper... the fact that he felt remorse LATER was good... but it was not good enough. He KNEW he had problems (otherwise he would not have felt sorry) but he did not feel bad enough to try and STOP himself (or get help) so I think in the end... at the very least, he got what he deserved... and maybe he even got off easy. He COULD have found himself in jail... or gotten beat up by someone bigger than him someday.. (or he could even have found himself looking at the wrong end of Laurel's gun... if you and I had been writing the story...ha) Anyway... I found him to be among the more FRUSTRATING protagonists of any movie I have seen lately. (One minute I am cheering him on... the next minute I wanted to throw a brick at him..ha) I haven't even touched on Gloria, not a good thing since she is the main event on this thread...but (a warning!) I want to do a separate post on her later Now that will be a good read, for sure. I will look forward to hearing your thoughts. And maybe (finally) YOU will be the one to drag the GREY GUY out of the shadows long enough to give me some of his comments too. (and I will practice putting my fingers in my ears and closing my eyes, and singing la la la la la when you two gents (and that Mad Hat gent as well) start getting all ga ga about Gloria..ha) A short word and accolade for Martha Stewart who imbues Mildred Atkinson with a bubbly enthusiasm, some cute behavioral nuances, and a few charming lines. I LOVED Mildred... she was everything you say... and very well played. And MAN what a shocker to find someone so innocent and so likeable (albeit a little annoying..ha) ... and someone you THINK is only going to be a marginal part of the story end up being MURDERED at the beginning of it all thereby becoming the whole framework that the rest of the story unfolds around... I totally did not see that coming.

Well I have done my civic duty here at "TCM City" (to borrow a phrase from Ms. Cutter) and cast my vote with Miss Maven... I look forward to hearing the results. But in the meantime I will second some of what has been said here already... a LOT of really great choices. It was not an easy decision. I found themes I liked in every schedule. So congrats to all the candidates... you really worked hard... and it shows! And congrats to Miss Maven too... I am SURE it was not easy putting this all together. Nicely done, kiddo. Good luck everybody. Best wishes, and thanks for the fun read.

Hey, I would PAY to go somewhere where I could act like that! "Club Bossy, where every woman is the boss..." HA!!! Our slogan: *"Because I said so"* I tell you what, young'un. I like your idea SO much, you won't even have to SWINDLE my bossy from me.. ha. I will chip in and be partners with you..ha. What was that old commercial for Hairclub for Men? " I'm not just the owner... I'm also a customer!"

CLUB BOSSY HA!!!!! Swindle away, little missy.... I LOVE it..ha. I will be your best customer!! ha. (Oh no... now that I think about the lady in that picture.. what does that say about me?? HA!! Sad but true)