rohanaka

Ha... I said you owe ME a Coke..ha. That gal's TOO gorgeous..ha. I would have to fight the Mad Hat and the GREY One for that..ha. Here... we can share this one between us sisters.... (we'll pretend that it's BEN in the photo) ha. Refreshing!!! ha.

;-) ha... again we post the same thing at the same time.ha. JINX... you owe me a Coke..ha. Edited by: rohanaka on Oct 21, 2009 3:42 PM

I guess you all have been picking on poor Frank again! No way.... we love the GREY...HA!!!!!!

Ha.. April... at least you have "hardwiring"..ha. I think I blew a fuse a LONG long time ago...ha. (or I have shorted out or SOMETHING..ha) PS: Chris... Chocolate is my life Ha.. we are living the SAME life then..ha. PS Wendy: Drive FASTER not slower..ha. The GREY Harmonica will catch up to you..HA!!

I would LOVE to hear what you have to say about old Harry, Mr. Mad Hat... dive on in anytime sir.

Thanks Fred.. I have seen that one and I agree it is a good story. It's kinda gritty and a bit long, but I really liked the ending a lot. And you are right... the acting (especially Duvall) is very good.

My copy arrived from Netflix moments ago so I have some work to do over the next couple of days before we move ahead. Woo hoo.... a voice of reason in the insanity.... (ha) I will look forward to your comments Chris... (and PS... did you finish all that birthday cake I posted for you???ha. I hope you had a great day, sir!) PS: Jackie... If you have something to add go for it. Ha... I will stock up on more Pepto if you decide to take the plunge!! ha. :-) (oh wait.. "plunge" might have a double meaning if we are joking about gastric things..ha... sorry) Ha!!

Howdy Lime Dude..ha. I do recall you saying how much you liked it before... SURE I will take a "walk" with you on The Third Man... I will try to watch it again tonight.. and if not, I will DEFINITELY make a point of recording it so I can watch it again soon. But what next... are you going to tell me that THIS Harry was a "standup" sweetheart of a "hero" too????????????????????? and.... And PS.... After all this chatting about some of your FAVORITE films here and in Westerns lately... we might as well make it a "Frank Grimes Special" and get to that NEW favorite of yours over in April's thread sometime soon. HA!! I can already hear the waves washing up on the shore over in Movie Rambles already... If you listen closely, I think you can hear the Hawaiian music starting to play, all the way over HERE in this forum too.... HA!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVQ4w0kft60 PS Jackie... I THOUGHT you would like T3rdM... I remember thinking when I saw it a while back that I wondered if you would.... Thanks for the tip on the Mason film.. I will keep an eye out for it.

Hey Grey Dude.... ANOTHER "Harry" story is on TCM tonight..... I really liked this film when they showed a several months ago... I am going to try VERY hard to get it on tape this time... Wendy?? Have you seen this one???? Ok.. Sorry to interrupt... back to poor Harry... and Tom Joad...

April.. try Open Range.... I think of all the more modern choices that I see listed here THAT one might apeal to you the most (at least in terms of the story) Duvall is VERY good in it... and I actaully even liked Kevin Costner.. which I hardly ever do. And the landscape is VERY beautiful. And again... I think the story is more along the lines of some of the films you might like. I don't picture you liking Unforgiven... (maybe because I hated it..ha. It has been a REALLY long time since I saw it, but in my mind I remember thinking it COULD have been a really GOOD story... but somehow along the way, it died on the vine for me..ha. And the violence is WAY over the top) It could be that you might also like Appaloosa... (at least a bit more than you would some of the other titles here) It was NOT as good a story as I wanted it to be... and there were some things about it I wished were different... but overall it was better than some of the more recent Westerns I've seen.

I will restock my arsenal right away..ha. (But who are we kidding.. Donovan's Reef??? What's not to like??? I am SURE he just loved it...ha!

April I LOVE that link... I THINK I have seen it before.. or at least on like it.. though I do not recall the bit w/ Mann at the beginning of it... However I DO remember the line by Shelly.. ha. "You just never know when a girl might need a bullet" ha. (A bullet... a frozen rope... a hat pin...whatever works!! ha.)

HELLOOOOOOOOOOO Harry.. I mean Grey Dude... ha. Ha.. we should nickname this NOIR chat... The TROUBLE with HARRY.. HA!! I believe his way of getting the men to the Silver Fox is ingenius I believe it was conniving and underhanded. Was it illegal... I am not sure. (Fraudulent claims WERE made... but I don't know if they were legally "fraud" since no fraudelent PROMISES were made.) But GEE... what a sleazy way to make a living... He didn't swindle or cheat to do it, either. I have to disagree... The bigs were looking to squash the small. The bank is taking the farms. He was trying to upset the entire applecart for Kristo... and his "farm" was going to be lost because of HIS OWN poor management.. the product he was trying to sell (Greco Roman wrestling) was NOT marketable.. and he knew that going into things.. he just ignored the facts because he WANTED to make his dream come true and he saw Gregorius as his "meal ticket". And then when he saw it was going to fail.. he had to figure out a way to "speed things up" he "cashed in" his ticket and sold it off by promoting (and instigating) the VERY kind of wrestling he had PROMISED to avoid. Do you really believe he ever intended to stick w/ Gregorius (or Nikolaus) and that style of wrestling? I think he REALLY knew that sooner or later he was NOT going to be able to sell that style of entertainment.. but he was banking on people buying into it at least long enough to get the ball rolling and get his business off the ground. Truthfully, I don't think he even KNEW or appreciated the difference between the two styles of wrestling.. he just wanted Gregorius for his NAME. He did not want to "help" him bring back Greco Roman anything... all he saw in that old man was what he HOPED would be big dollar signs. And then once he had hit the big time.. it would have been HIS show and he could do as he pleased. Somewhere along the line he might even have convinced HIMSELF that he was trying to do something "noble" and artistic.. even "classy" by offering a more "gentlemanly" form of wrestling.. but I also believe he ONLY cared for the money and the fame.. he did not care for the "cause" (like Gregorious and Nikolaus did) I think Kristo was COMPLETELY right about who Harry was as a human being and a "manager" and he KNEW Harry would not be successful. What he wanted to prove to his dad was that Harry was not only wrong, but also that Harry was not the standup guy that Gregorius had been CONNED into believeing. And again... ultimately.. .Kristo underestimated the damage Harry could cause.. but everything he believed about who Harry REALLY was and what he'd REALLY do ended up to be true.. even if Kristo had a hand in setting some of it in motion. Harry's problem was that he listened to too many people. He was overconfident yet completely lacking in confidence. A deadly mix I don't agree. I don't think Harry listened to ANYBODY... And that made HIM as easy to steer as the people HE led around by the nose as well. I think he only wanted to hear the things HE wanted to believe. (about how GOOD his life would be.. if he could only "catch a break") so NOTHING else anyone said ever registerd in his brain. (or his heart) unitl the end. And then it was all CRYSTAL for him (but again.. all too late) PS: Miss G: Those who live by the swindle shall die by the swindle. Ha.. preach it, my sister..ha. And also.. PS... RE: Tom Joad..ha. I have issues with HIM too...ha. So if things DID go that way.. it would NOT win him any points..ha. PS Miss Maven... ugh.. I like my Andy Griffeth all Mayberry-ish..ha Or even MATLOCK-ish..ha. I don't think my heart could TAKE it.. ha.

My DEAR Mr. Grey.. But Harry works to bring customers to the Silver Fox Harry scams people into coming to the Silver Fox... that's his "work". and he takes a loan out to start his own wrestling promotion. He didn't go to a bank and take out a loan the way a "real" business person would do.. he "swindled" and cheated his way to get that money... I don't think there is anything wrong with that. REALLY????????????????????? What AM I going to do with you.. OH ME. HA!! But I thought Harry was doing well. He was winning. No.. he was CHEATING to win.. not the same thing. But others wouldn't allow him to win. They took him down. He deserved to be taken down.. you dont' cheat and swindle the "big guys" and walk away without paying for it.. Did he need to be stronger and more ruthless to survive? Yes. But I don't think his not being ruthless is a bad thing. Well... now I agree with you on that point. He was NOT meanspirited... just SELFISH and GREEDY. So ok.. he wasn't as "sinister" as the stronger, more ruthless people he was dealiing with.. but he made his choice when he tried to swindle and/or out play all those folks w/ more money and power than he had... and he had to pay for his poor planning with his life. Kristo wants Nikolas but Gregorius is his manager/agent Ok.. you got me there (I totaly forgot about the part where Gregorius says "you brought me here, etc) but still I do not think Kristo EVER expected his father to stay.. or be a part of his life there in London...(Oh.. now I better be careful or you will hit me w/ another screencap..ha. Maybe I need to go back and watch that part of the story again...ha.) Anyway.. I think he wanted to keep his father out of his business (and his business out of his relationship with his father). Harry's inability to control a situation did make him unintentionally harmful. Kristo is intentionally harmful No.. I think they BOTH intended "harm".. Harry's was just a less violent and less ruthless and sinister plot.. he wanted to take over wrestling in London.. and he wanted to do it using ANYONE he could or anyone's MONEY he could.. because he did not have a clue about how to do it "legitimately". He felt that the END would justify the means... and in this case, he was WAY wrong. I believe Harry could have ended up being a harmful man, but I don't see him as being one at current. I think if Harry HAD been succesful.. he'd have become MUCH more ruthless and sinister over time.. but he was NEVER going to succeed. He did not know how. (again.. he really was just a "two bit hood" of a spider in a BIG BAD spider world.) UGH.. I said the "S" word again..ha. Where's the Raid ????? ha.

Hi my little OK Kid. :-) Now the question is, who is worse? Or maybe who could do the MOST damage to the most people.... but you are right.. the "ripple effect" for Harry's actions was VERY far reaching. We are ALL responsible for the "marbles" we move when we shoot our own little "cat's eye" beauties into the ring. And Harry moved a LOT of marbles. think we would all say that Nossie and Kristo were worse people than Harry. However, I actually feel that the well thought out evil caused by Kristo and Nossie is in some ways less catastrophic than the evil caused by Harry's thoughtlessness Maybe that is the difference between "organized crime" and UNorganized...ha. Ok.. .that was lame.. but I guess what I am saying is... you are right.. although they were "worse" human beings in terms of their menacing "evil natures" I think Harry (although less sinister) was at LEAST just as bad due to his careless and self serving "I will get what I want by hook or by crook" attitude. (This is a word the does not get used here a lot... so I will use it with "caution" but... ) Sin is sin.. whether you commit a BIG one or a little one... you are still doing wrong.. and the consequence of those actions is the end result of the choice that was made. The longer a person gets away with their "sin" the easier it is to continue down that path.. .but ultimately.. it is like a big snowball and it will come crashing down on you one way or another.. and if you think about it... all three of those men paid a pretty high price for the wrong choices they made. In the end, Kristo is the only one left walking.. but I bet he walks a little lower knowing what happened to his father was at least PARTLY his own fault. And he may not feel the deepest repercussions yet (riding on the "high" of giving Harry his due) but maybe someday his "snowball" will be the biggest of all when it crashes. Both Harry and Nossie did a LOT of soul searching in a SHORT amount of time at the end of their respective roads. And they both realized too late that the life they had pursued for themeslves brought them NOTHING but pain. And even if he lives to a ripe old age, at some point I think Kristo will face an end that is just as tragic... (and depending on what you believe.. that may not ever happen in THIS life, but it is bound to happen after) One way or another, I expect he will find out that ultimately, crime NEVER pays. (at least not in the ways that REALLY matter) Ok..ha... (sorry if I sounded like a "minisermon) :-) I will get down off my soapbox.. or out of my pulpit... now. Ha.

Hey there, Spiderwoman Ha.. I am the ANTIspiderwoman.. HA! Harry is the "hero" of the story Ha.. You say "hero" but I still say "herowannabe". ha. Do we EVER agree???????? ha. (if we DID it would NOT be as much fun, would it??? ha) Do you pull for him or don't you? You have to decide. The decision is not an easy one. Nope.. for me it was totally easy ("Black and White gal that I am. HA!!) He was a lowlife... even if he maybe had a "sympathetic" side to him from time to time. It just took a LONG time for me to feel bad for him at all. Mostly I wanted him to "snap out of it" and get a clue.. Life is NOT about what you can scam from someone else... he did not understand that until it was too late. And THAT does make me sorry for him. Did he fall short or did forces take him down? How 'bout this??? When he was young.. and learning how to live.. forces LED him "down"... as in down a "wrongward" path... (at least according to what he said at the end) And then as a result of his poor upbringing, he FELL short.. and since he fell short... other later forces in his life TOOK him down. Now am I saying that EVERYONE who is raised like he was will end up like he did? NO... and I am also not saying that everyone who ends up like he did has an "excuse" just because they might have been raised like he was... I am just saying that it explains HOW he may have been able to let himself be "steered" into the life he led. You can't use your bad childhood as an excuse for bad behavior forever... sooner or later you have to CHOOSE if you will stay the way you were raised... or try to rise above it. He never tried... he never even WANTED to try.. until the bitter end.. which MAY lean a bit toward what April said.. he was SORRY he got caught. But I do think he was also SORRY for what he did too.. at least on some level.. so I think his actual repentant moment was genuine.. (which makes the end of the story all the more sad) Ok.. that was a bit twisty and turny..ha. Hope it all made sense... Kristo killed his father, NOT Harry. Kristo had been killing his father and he finally saw it through. No, I don't agree. I think Kristo LEFT his father so he COULD be who he wanted to be w/out "killing" his father.. and his father is the one who came looking for HIM. And even though I think he wanted his dad to see the REAL Harry.. I don't think he had ANY idea that it would lead to what it did. I think he just wanted his dad to see the truth... and then GO HOME. (so he could be spared from any further hurt) In that regard I think Kristo dropped the ball... he really underestimated both his father AND Harry... and the end result was VERY tragic. I'm with the little guy. I'm with Harry. He's harmless. Kristo is not. Kristo was not harmless. You are right.. but NEITHER was Harry... I say again, I think Kristo underestimated the damage he could cause.. mainly because although Harry was a "two bit hood" he was playing with the big boys. And he had NO control over the things he set in motion (w/ the Strangler) and because he had NO control... it made him dangerous in a way NOBODY could have suspected. And plus.. Harry WAS harming others..in a really AWFUL way... for Kristo it was "just business" but for Harry.. he used people's "PERSONAL" emotions to get them to do what he wanted..I don't think Kristo was such a "user" as he was an "enforcer". But either way.. BOTH guys were far from harmless. PS Mss G: I think Helen and Harry DID have a fling once upon a time. I have to watch it again, but something was said in an exhange between them that led me to suspect, as you posited, that there was water under their mutual bridge. I meant to bring that up as well. I think you are exactly right. It seemed to me they had a past together.. maybe that is how Harry hooked up w/ Giant Spider guy in the first place??? Who knows.. but I do believe he and Helen were very well acquainted (in a past life sort of way).

Hey folks.. sorry I have been out of the loop for a few days. But will try to catch up. Do you think if Harry had made it out alive, he would have changed? Or would he have gradually just fallen right back into his old ways..... ? I don't know. I DO believe it is possible for someone to repent and make a complete turn around and be completely diiferent than when they started... but I also believe that it depends on the motivation and the reason for the repentance... and also what sort of support the person has as well.... so I just dont' know how to answer that. I HOPE he would have made a genuine turn around... but if he didn't, then it likely is right (as you said) that he was better off going down when he did. PS: Miss Maven: "Water Under the Bridge" (1954) A man two times the women he meets at a social club. They band together to seek their revenge using only one, cold, rope. Cast: Vivien Goddess, Gene Rohanaka, Gail Favell and Frank Grimes. Dir. Sigmund Freud, Asst. Dir. Wild Bill MadHat Molo. BW-84 mins. TV - R. HA!!! hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahha and I say again.. HA!!!

Ha... Miss Maven.. we are all posting at the same time...ha. POOR DOM... what a sad story. (but very true.) He COULD have let you help him, but he had to do it "his way". Kristo walks with one henchman while Harry hides behind a bunch of wrestlers. That scene where Harry shows Kristo WHO he has on his side (his dad) and then just gets all in his face and he starts hitting that punching bag. MAN OH MAN. Kristo played it SO well. He could LITERALLY have stomped that little spider and crushed him w/out a second thought. But he didn't, out of respect for his father. Harry was SO smug and glib and TOTALLY clueless at WHO he was really dealing with. He totally underestimated Kristo. And the end result cost him everything. You ought to write for National Geographic Nah!! I'd never last. ha. I HATE spiders and bugs.. and all those CREEPY things..ha. I'd be too grossed out. ha. If I even see a PICTURE of a bug I am wondering where my can of RAID is. Ha.

Good Morning, Ms. Favell... But she sums it all up -Harry is so creative, but always at the wrong things. That's it. She hoped for better things from him because she saw the potential in him that he never even saw in himself. If he just could have put all that energy and focus to get what he wanted headed in the RIGHT direction, he might actually HAVE made something of himself. He wanted to hit the BIG time. But he had no concept for how to really WORK to make those BIG dreams come true. And PS... I think sometimes we can all be a LITTLE like Harry... coming up w/ ideas but not having the wherewithal or not knowing how to make them work, But the difference is how we REACT to that part of life. We can either make it our focus and whine or scheme (or even bully others) to try and get our way or we can keep our "dreams' in mind but still go on with REAL life in the meatime. It's NICE to have a dream. But real life shouldn't (and doesn't) wait. So the key is to know how to seperate our "dream life" from our real one while keeping them BOTH intact. (ha... I am starting to sound like some sort of lame "motivational" bumper sticker or something..ha. "Keep your feet on the ground while you are reaching for the stars" ha.) Harry set into motion emotions he knew nothing about - love, hate, revenge, etc. He was so amoral that he didn't realize or feel any of those emotions for himself, until they splashed up on him from the consequences of his actions. And we should be grateful that they did splash onto him - otherwise he would never have known that love he felt at the end for Gene. Even in his most noble moment, though, he got it wrong...... sad sad sad It was sad. And you have hit on what I saw as Harry's greatest strength AND his worst aspect as a "scam artist" as well. He WAS a really good "steering wheel" for people. But he was inept at doing anything beyond just the fast talking sales pitch. He could cast a good line (to reel in those who were easily steered) but he had NO UMPH to back himself up and keep people in place once he got them where he wanted them... hence the chaos of unleashed emotions. And I think you are right about when he finally saw what life was REALLY all about and how he had "missed it" right up until the very moment he is waiting for DEATH to show up w/ all those footsteps clip clip clopping their way to Annie's door. And then when LOVE showed up instead, it turned the tide for him as a human being. . But like you say, even when he TRIED to do the right thing, he still got it wrong. What a shame. And what a waste of life. It really WAS sad.

HA!!!!! Ms. Favell, my sister, here we are again, ha. Typing our little hearts out at the same time!!! ha. (I was RIGHT about looking forward to your reading your thoughts. Already you are on a roll) (and I see YOU noticed the "big spider" too... ha) PS: Does this mean I have to watch Once Upon A Time in the West now? I was so trying to avoid it HA!!! Do you have 14 hours and PLENTY of PEPTO to invest???????????????????

Wow. Miss G, I gotta hand it to you. Your suggestion to the Grey Dude and me (to pick a film neither of us had seen before) for our little ?walk? on the noir side here was a GREAT idea. I think judging from the comments so far, most people seeing Night and the City for the first time all seem to agree. Looks like that little ChiO-ish ?fate? moment I had by just choosing a random title from Mr. Grey?s list has led us down quite the interesting and ?twisty turny? path in our little stroll through Noir Land. I really enjoyed this film a lot. As I already mentioned it is quite ?twisty? and very much in an intriguing sort of way. I also found this story very tragic and quite pathetic too. And I imagine that Harry is JUST the sort of GREY ?hero? that the Grey Dude has in mind so often when he lists that aspect of Noir as being one of his favorite things about this genre. Now although I did call Harry the ?hero? of the story earlier, I feel I must restate that and call him what I really see him as: a ?hero wannabe?. I think he wanted to be ?SOMEBODY? just as he said. But he fell pitifully short of the mark of what it really takes to BE the somebody he WANTED to be. And I have to say I think this happened mainly because he did not have the inner character to be a GOOD guy or a strong enough GRIP to be an effective ?bad guy?. I liked the screencap the Grey Guy posted of him lovingly displaying his fancy new ?name plate? that said ?manager?, but the sad truth is that by his lack of moral character and lack of self discipline he could not be a GOOD ?manager? and by his lack of strength to intimidate others into getting (and /or keeping) what he wanted, (by force) he made a really POOR and pathetic ?tough guy/boss?. So in the end there was NO way he could control a legitimate OR illegitimate business and make it to the top. Ultimately, he was just forever doomed to ?two bit hood? status. Miss Goddess says: This movie succeeds in making it look dangerous, lethal and full of nightcrawlers. What I saw were SPIDERS. Ha. (LOTS AND LOTS of Spiders.. ick) ha. I just wanted a HUGE can of RAID. Ha. (I?ll explain more in a moment) Miss G also says: I'm not thrilled by movies in which I'm rooting for the comeuppance of the maincharacter, but there's no taking away how brilliantly Widmark plays this hustling little conniver. He's going to be top dog, no matter who he has to manipulate, wring out to dry or step on. That is a perfect way to say it all. And I am by NO stretch of the imagination any sort of huge Widmark fan, but he did VERY well by old Harry. What a piece of work that slimy little guy was. He had BIG dreams and he cared very little for who he stepped on or misused to get his dream to come true. Selfish, and self-serving EVERY step of the way. And I had NO sympathy for him whatsoever. At least not UNTIL (teeny mini-spoiler) the VERY bitter end. And although she had a little sympathy for old Harry, Miss Maven says it best: I just kept shaking my head saying ?you?re gonna have to pay for all you did, dude. Ha. That is exactly how I felt. Ha. In fact, when the final scenes were playing out and things were REALLY getting desperate for Harry (and he can?t find ANYONE to take him in or any place to hide, I literally started singing ?Nowhere to run to baby, nowhere to hide? ha. And then in the end, he made me cry. Or seeing Mary turn up, foolishly, made me cry. Why do people love people who are so rotten? That **** again. Even poor Nosseross, he couldn't live without that venal Helen, who was so cold hearted she made even Harry look promising Well, I am not sure there IS an answer to your question there, youngun. LOVE is a mystery sometimes (at least as to WHY people end up loving people who CLEARLY love no one but themselves) but as to Helen, I am GLAD she got what she deserved, even if it cost old Nosseross EVERYTHING to stick it to her. (gee, I?m mean, ha) Gene Tierney is miscast. She's terrific as always but so unconvincing as a girl of this seedy milieu I am just beginning to learn more about Ms. Tierney, but I have to say this was likely a wasted opportunity for her to have a role where she COULD have stood out. Instead she was relegated to really (for the most part) setting up the beginning and the end of the story for Harry?s character. The REAL story had little to do with her most of the time. I think it could have been almost anyone in that role and the movie as a whole would have likely still been as good. But I think if her character HAD been expanded more, it might have been interesting to see what she did with it. Frank Sinatra folks. He would have filled out Harry with so much more dimension. Richard Widmark cannot exhibit vulnerability. He was whiny and self-pitying and even slightly regretful, but not vulnerable. I was longing to see that so that I could root for him. I'm harder than you and Frank, yes, I NEVER "rooted for him", never not once, not from the moment I saw him reaching into Gene's purse. He wasn't a man at all. Maybe it wasn't his fault, but I don't have much sympathy for the Harry's of the world, their "littleness" has nothing to do with what the "big guys" may or may not have done to them. Their littleness is of the soul Miss G. you?ve got Harry?s number, exactly right. And I don?t think Widmark NEEDED to appear ?vulnerable (at least until the end) because in my mind we weren?t SUPPOSED to sympathize with him. I think we were SUPPOSED to be disgusted with him, and even possibly dislike him throughout most of the movie. He gives us NO reason to feel otherwise, but maybe that is my ?black and white? talking. ha. And now about THE SPIDERS: (ha) I liked what MissMaven has said about Harry spinning and spinning his web. He was a conniving little ?web spinner? for sure. But he was also a VERY little spider trying to play in a BIG spider world. While he was busily spinning and spinning his little web, he was TOTALLY oblivious to the Giant Spider of a guy (Nosseross) spinning a much BIGGER web right over top of him. And then of course the creepy little ?Helen Spider? spinning her OWN web trying to get the better of both men, and then getting caught up in BOTH their webs instead. I say again, SPIDERS. Notice the giant "eight legged" thing looming in the distance up at the top of the stairs, (ha) and then retreating again into his corner: And then later on, after he spun one of his biggest webs of all, here he is all smug and happy, in his cozy spider home: Creepy. Now as sorry as I sometimes felt for Nosseross (BEAUTIFULLY played by Sullivan, by the way) about his tragic LOVE for Helen, he really was a downright AWFUL guy. So ultimately, he just got VERY little sympathy from me overall. He was like a huge predator hiding and waiting for the nice juicy little "Harry" and "Helen" spiders to get caught up in his web. And then he moved in for the kill. (And those two little "critters"... ha... neither one of them ever knew what bit them until it was TOO late.) Anyway, that is how I saw these three ?schemers?, a venomous bunch of arachnids all trying to ensnare and devour one another. Eeewww. Ha The Grey Guy says: Gregorius (Stan Zbyszko) is such a wonderfully-warm character. In a world dedicated to money, he was all about "art." He was too proud to surrender himself to the cold, heartless world of cash. His son was the exact opposite of this If there was ONE character that I found to be the most emotionally moving in this whole story it was certainly Gregorius. (And PS, Miss Maven, your description of the big wrestling match was spot on. It was GRUELING and to tell the truth almost more than I could stomach.) And April, I know you said you cried at the end of the film (in the last scenes w/ Harry and Mary) but I BAWLED my eyes out over Gregorius and his son ?Close the window my son? UGH. Talk about BLUBBERING. Oh me. And it made old Herbert Lom FAR more sympathetic to me than Harry at that point. Now that is not to say that I am advocating putting a contract out on somebody to get revenge, but his actions made PERFECT sense to me. And they really were Harry?s ?just desserts?. I also like that Widmark weeps. Yes, he weeps for himself. But shouldn't we, as well? Well, now that is hard to answer. My first thought is NO. He did get what he deserved. But then again, I DO feel sorry for him at the end. He truly understands (too late) everything that was going to happen to him was his OWN doing. And he seems truly sorry for hurting Mary especially. So FINALLY he had me feeling sad for his fate. Because I DO like to see a repentant ne?er do well. I just wish he had repented SOONER so that his turn around could have done him (and others) more good. But that is the ?mom? in me. Ha. You WANT your kids to choose right BEFORE they get in the DEEP DARK TROUBLE, but it doesn't ALWAYS go that way. You hate to see them end up sitting in that big time out chair of life, (ha) but you know THEY put themselves there and sometimes you gotta let them sit. They "did the crime, now they gotta do the time". Still, it makes you sad when they get their "comeuppance". As I mentioned at the beginning, I really liked this film a LOT and I am glad to see such a great chat going on with it now. I am THOROUGHLY enjoying our little amble down the Noir path. Ha. PS: Jackie: Glad to see you here, my fellow ?Noir Newbie? I am looking forward to your comments for sure. You always bring a LOT to our chats. PS: Mad Hat: I haven't seen Night and the City or even Scarlet Street for that matter. Shameful, I know! Shameful INDEED. Get w/ it Mr. ?I love Gloria? ha. HER films are looming in my future soon. (If I am not mistaken at least two or three are showing within the next couple of months) we can?t be having you lag behind when I have my big ?Gloria? breakthrough!! Ha.

OH MY GOLLY.... Grey Dude.. we BOTH get what we want in a movie... from the SAME character...ha. A GREY hero... who makes a "black and white" choice in the end... beauty. I'll be back. (did I mention OH MY GOLLY??????????????????????)

Hope you have a VERY happy day!!

OH my golly... Poor Harry.. he just wants to BE somebody... oh gee.. Well, I am up to part 5... I will have to come back later and finish the rest... but I refuse to read your "rumble" on this one Miss Maven (beyond your opening line...ha.) Until I am finished... but I can tell already you have given us a good bit to chew on youngun'. And Miss G and Mr Grey... I will respond back to some of your comments later too... I am ALMOST caught up..ha. I just had to work out all that Western SPAGHETTI from my system first..ha. So far I can say that I am on the edge of my seat to see what is going to become of slimy Mr. Fabian.. Sweet Mother of Haagen-Dazs, OH woe is me.... all I can say is "sweet mother of Hershey Bar"..ha. Alas, there is NO icecream in the house..ha.

I also loved the street scene You know.. it was not a BAD scene... In fact I have to confess.. if it were in a DIFFERENT place in the movie.. or if the events leading up to it were different, I might have liked it more. But again, I just felt like that whole segment sort of went out on a tangent... and that scene happened to be a part of it. But I DID like that line you quoted in your screencaps... I agree.. very sharp there... (and I also liked the "Two too many" bit early on w/ the horses... and the line where Robards says something like. "He can play AND shoot"... sort of finally paying Harmonica the respect he deserved) And again.. I just wished there had been MORE things like that in this story... and less "other stuff" ha. You don't want to hear what I think of Donovan's Reef Oh.. I'm not worried in the least...ha. (I already KNOW this will be another one of those "I didn't like it, I LOVED it moments for you, wont' it?????? ha.) And ps.. if it ISN'T.. well.. we know how to handle the likes of YOU, sir..ha. I'll be waiting.. rope and hatpin in hand... And I'm an innocent gentleman! Sure you are... and the "other" Frank is a real gentleman too... (where DID I put that last bottle of Pepto???) HA!!