rohanaka

Oh you man in Grey... ha... I just remembered (after our little "throw down.. ha) I still wanted to respond to a couple more of your comments from last night... haven't seen many Wayne flicks. This is the order of my favorite Wayne characters that I have seen: 1. Sheriff John T. Chance (Rio Bravo) 2. Quirt Evans (Angel and the Badman) 3. Lt. JG "Rusty" Ryan (They Were Expendable) 4. The Ringo Kid (Stagecoach) 5. Tom Doniphon (The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance) 6. Ethan Edwards (The Searchers) 7. Lt. Col. Kirby Yorke (Rio Grande) 8. Sean Thornton (The Quiet Man) 9. Thomas Dunson (Red River) 10. Col. John Marlowe (The Horse Soldiers) 11. Frank W. "Spig" Wead (The Wings of Eagles) 12. Jimmy McCoy, Jr. (Baby Face) WHAT.... no HONDO?? No "Guns" Donovan????? What about MCCLINTOCK????? Or Rooster Cogburn?????? ha. Actually you have a pretty good list going on... so far!! In fact... you have at least 3 that I know for SURE I've never seen... (the last 3) and also #9 that I don't think I've seen... but I MAY have... (it's on my list for the library.) I haven't been able to get #10 or 11 yet.. and I have only heard of #12 maybe on other time... so I think I have a ways to go mysefl... ha. Yes, John T. Chance is very much a "white" character. He's not Ethan Edwards Ah HAH!!!!!!!! (no mention of GREY....anywhere...) I do believe Geoff and John are both caring men, though. I think you are right... and they ARE different (motivationally) but they do have a lot in common as well. As of right now, "Stumpy" is my favorite Walter Brennan character. Make me a list of some more of your faves for him... I like him in almost ANYTHING... but he has some really stand out moments in a lot of films... my ABSOLUTE fave for him is Pastor Pyle (in Sgt York) ... but I think Stumpy runs a VERY close second... and I am really getting close to making some adjustments for the rest of my list because of two recent films I have watched (To Have and Have Not AND My Darling Clementine... though.. in MDC he plays one MEAN monster to be sure.) But I have SO many other films I like him in.. it is really hard to choose favorites. For me, Colorado is just a natural and those with an eye for talent notice this quickly. Pat (Ward Bond) certainly noticed how good Colorado was and this is why I believe he gave him such a responsible position. Nepotism probably got him the job, but talent earned him trust. John trusts Pat's word but he doesn't fully believe it until he sees the talent for himself. You are right on target. He IS the real deal too, by the way.. not (as you say) a phony. And I think that is what gives his character so much appeal. In the "wrong hands" that much confidence could end up as arrogance... but Colorado wears it well. I do believe he was judging Feathers. His opinion changed of her when he took the time to hear her story. I think you've got it pegged... John T was basing most of his opinions on what he had read in the handbill... but once he had a chance to see for himself the way things really were... he wasn't too stubborn to give her the chance she deserved... And by doing THAT... it made HIM the "Chance" she deserved as well... :-) Message was edited by: rohanaka

nitey night! Sweet Dreams, little Miss Feathers.. Say HEY to John T for me! :-)

Grey! Grey! Grey! John T. Chance was one of Burdette's men. In your face, Quiet Gal! YOU are SO out to lunch on that one... AND you know it.. HA!! By the time I read this... you were already outvoted 3 to 1... Ms Cutter.. Miss G... and ME!! The correct answer was B...PEACEMAKER for hire... To borrow from MEN IN BLACK... "Don't start nothin'... won't BE nothin" HA!!! So in your face TOO, you man in GREY!

Hellooooo Miss G... I wonder what John T's history is. All we glimpse into his past is that he may have been no better than some of Burdette's hired guns So how did he "hire his gun"? Was he like Robert Mitchum in Man With The Gun, who basically acts as a "peacemaker for hire" for different communities where there was no official law enforcement? Or was he like one of those guys with a $50 gold piece? You are hitting a deep pocket on this one... very good catch! I think John T DOES have some sort of past... I am guessing ( the "peacemaker for hire" scenario... based on his character and the sense that you get that he is a man who values his own integrity more than most... I also think that time has caught up w/ him and he's not as "big" as he used to be... and he's had to adapt in more ways than one. The other night... this little exchange jumped out at me for the first time... I had never noticed what he says here about "other" guns before... I think at some point... John T has had to face facts that he's not as good as he used to be... He is a a lot like Geoff in that he hates asking anyone to do anything "for him"... but he also knows how to weigh a situation for what it is worth and not let pride get in his way if he needs to alter his way of thinking. He is STILL very self reliant but I think that mostly comes from wanting to make sure the job is done RIGHT... and also because he's made it his goal to protect those who are weaker or not as able to fight... such as the "well meaning amatures". But also.. if you notice... he watches out for the "old pro's" too. He KNOWS Stumpy is very capable, but only to a certain degree... and that makes him an easier target. So he keeps Stumpy locked up in the jail as much for his own protection as to guard the prisoner as well... It lets Stumpy keep his pride (by giving him an important job) but it keeps him out the bulk of the danger too.

Hiya Grey Guy... Good evening, Kooky (sad but true) I resemble that remark... HA! Sayings are one thing, but stimulative replies are another. Whenever my grandma uses her credit card she tells me, "if you don't use it once in a while, they will it take from you. They've never gotten a cent from me." If we drive by a particular run-down place with junk in the yard, she'll say, "Ohhhh, that's just awful. I can't believe people live like that." Whenever she talks about her mom and her mom's sister, she always finishes with, "they broke the mold with them." It's very much AB=C. It's all about, "what's the first thing that comes to mind." But I suppose we're all this way in some ways. A certain person or image or word(s) or song (sound) sparks an immediate reaction or feeling with us.+ Your Grandma reminds me of MINE... and what's more.. in some ways... I think she reminds me of ME!! Ha. Every so often I find myself repeating a "same old" line.. but in a way.. it's comforting... And it IS very much A+B=C, by the way... Two of my favorites are: "Send a postcard"... which is something "smart mouthed" I usually say in jest to a friend or family member who makes a point of telling me something unnecessary about where they are going... as in...they say..."I think I will go get a soda from the fridge" . Then I will say.. (just to be silly) "BYE...Send me a postcard!" And my other favorite one is "Gravity will get you every time".... usually said following the occassion of something either falling, or getting dropped, etc... But it is funny how these things get passed on, because I have noticed... on NUMEROUS occasions... the kidling will say... "Gravity will get you every time" Ha. And usually it is CUTE coming from a little person, but as she grows older... NOT so cute if she says it to the wrong person. (Like the other day we were at a store when a clerk dropped a HUGE pile of boxes and was very unhappy about it...and then this sweet little voice pipes up "Gravity will get you every time... HA) So NOW I need to teach her WHEN and when NOT to exercise her apparently inherited trait to "babble". Ha. have nothing to worry about since I'm an innocent gentleman. I think you need some of Dr Sanderson's formula... you are sounding a bit DELUSIONAL now... ha I really like your usage of the term "cookie cutter." That really speaks to conformity. And I agree with you, I don't believe Dr. Sanderson was meanspirited but I do believe he was sometimes uncaring. He was definitely blind, and his arrogance was one of the things blinding him. I felt Dr. Sanderson's entire chat with Elwood was done with the idea of looking to save his own bacon and Mr. Chumley's from a lawsuit. I agree with you about Sanderson's chat w/ Elwood... BUT... when I was talking about his "cookie cutter" approach.... I was actually thinking of his conversation with VETA!! He saw HER as a patient... but he didn't REALLY see her at all... he just felt she was another person who needed his special formula to calm her down and bring her back to reality... He was not really LISTENING to her so much as he was responding to her "babbling" chatter... and in the process... he almost ended up treating the wrong "nutcase". Ha. But it would not have mattered.... because in his mind... they all get the same CURE in the end. Message was edited by: rohanaka

Howdy, April.. Excellent posts, little lady! One of the things about this movie I've been musing on is the idea that people have prove what they are, what they can do. "Talk" is not something that holds much stock in Hawksie's pictures. Nor do appearances. I think you are on target there, young'un.... and I also think you are right about talk DOES get used instead... as little interesting side convesations while all the action is going on... The amusing thing of all this emphasis of action over talk is that Hawksie's movies, including this one, are often filled with wonderful dialogue and verbal exhanges There is not a lot of "grand" speech making... but there is a lot of grand "speech".. Pat was a "well meaning amateur" who was only trying to help, but he forgot to think about who might be listening VERY good point as well... and maybe I was being too harsh earlier when I said what I did about this character... I think his biggest failing was that his intention was good... but his ability to act was not eqaul to that task.

The flipside to that, thematically speaking, is the irrationality that came with mob rule in areas of the Old West where the rule of law was not yet fully established. Without any desire to derail the RIO BRAVO discussion... I will chase this LITTLE rabbit with you.... if only for a moment... Areas of the OLD WEST where the RULE OF LAW was not yet fully established were ALWAYS an easy target for mobs... both the "normally law abiding citizenry turned mob" that you are attempting to allude to... (though not at ALL applicable to RIO BRAVO) and ALSO the cut throat angry "lets infiltrate and try to take over the whole TOWN" kind of mob... (LIKE the one in RIO BRAVO.) Burdette and his men felt not the least bit of accountability to the law... in fact... they sought to both USE the law... in a twisted way to accomplish their goals (like when Stumpy mentions getting his land taken by Burdette) and also by showing utter contempt and a blatant disregard for the law... (like the mocking attitude they have toward the Sheriff and his deputies) The only reason they FAILED (where in other towns they most likely would have had success) is that the law WAS in place... and a man of wisdom and integrity, and experienc KEPT the law. He did NOT allow a willful takeover to happen to his town.. or to the PEOPLE of Rio Bravo... because he KNEW how to take a stand... and do the job the way he was hired to do it. His EXPERIENCE and his integrity made the difference. NOW... There are westerns(like perhaps the Ox-Bow incident) that seem to show towns where there IS no leadership and the "townsfolk" do give in to mass hysteria.... but THEY are very much NOT as good nor as true a representation of MOST western themes in general. Many more westerns will likely show the townspeople as being basic honest folk who appreciate good leadership in their Sheriff and who only want to enjoy their daily lives without constant threat from attack and repeated unwelcome harassment by lawless scoundrels (no matter how "clean" those scoundrels boots may appear) And a movie scenario where the law is upheld and those who try to "skirt around" it are rounded up and dealt with properly (which, by the way.. is more in keeping with the movie we are discussing here.... ) is also a better representation of: fundamental notions of law and order that are common to all Western democracies today or at least.... it should be.

Hiya Mr. Dude.... Boy when you get your "ramblin' boots on, you really go to town!!! I thought Dean's performance was fantastic. I really like the sound of his voice in the western world. I also liked his look. Even though he was a drunken nervous wreck, I felt very comfortable with him. I was with him the whole way. You are right (could this be ME saying THAT to YOU!! ) I say again that I can't think of ANYONE else but Dean Martin as DUDE.... he was terrific... I liked how he "gradually" worked his way back... he didn't go "all out". He didn't have the confidence... but as time went on... he began to get it back.. along with the "want to as well"... I liked the scene where John T gives him his old guns and clothes back... Definitely. Dude's story is one of self-perseverance. He wanted to quit instead of fighting through his demons. He was giving up on himself more than he was John and Stumpy. He was in his own private hell and he was burning. It was an uphill fight... especially everytime he has a set back.. but I liked that he keeps on fighting... even when he REALLY DOES seem to want to give up. Demons are tough to ward off. Does giving in to them do you any good? Does quitting do you any good? What if other people, people you care about, are depending on you? Who knows if the marshal will ever show or if they will ever understand the real trouble in town? But that shouldn't mean the town is to be handed over to those looking to destroy it. EXACTLY.. very nice call. He knows the cost of giving up... and he keeps at the fight... (and I am not talking now about the fight with others so much as I am the fight with himself.) And what's he trying to shake. A woman! Y'all are rotten! Ahhhh, Hawks. Oh PLEASE!!!! Anyone knows that you will ONLY turn into the "town drunk" if you have that weakness in you to begin with... we are ALL responsible for our OWN behavior... NO MATTER how many weasly ways we try to blame it on someone else... I must say, I've grown to really like Ward Bond... a LOT. He's now a favorite of mine. I love Ward Bond... but I have to say... that if this movie has a character that to me needed more credibility.. it was his. He starts out really strong... coming in to town... but then when he gets all "stupid" in the saloon... it just did not seem to "fly" for me... The back door is shameful, the front door is prideful. That's why I always take the back. Ha. Is THAT why you are always "lurking" around in the back shadows????? I actually thought self-doubt did creep into Dude's mind and face when no one's boots were muddy. His look to John was that of disappointment and even shame. And I thought John's look back to him was that of a father who felt bad for his son. I think you are right... but I also think he KNEW he was right... he was just so beaten down he did not really know the best way to go about proving it... (which MIGHT go toward something Chris said about "WHY didn't they search the rest of the place?") John T was covering everyone... so Dude would have had to do the searching.... and he was too "stumped" by his apparent failure, even if only for a moment, to think that straight... I think. Of course, Dude DID see the truth. Even though the cowboys that were showing their faces didn't have muddy boots, it didn't mean they were clean. Far from it. The killer that Dude was looking for was hiding in the shadows, lurking above. Like most who look to do harm to others and towns, they are hiders (liars), they are cowards. You are right.. and in the end... the "blood will tell"... and that is what made the difference for Dude. You are right, Dude is similar to McPherson in that they are the redemptive figures in their respective films. However, there is a big difference between the two. McPherson was really up against it since he wronged a friend of the boss and he had to completely earn this standing. John actually trusts and believes in Dude. I agree the two characters have their differences too... and also... I think you are right about John T except maybe I think he more HOPES for Dude rather than completely trusting him... he's willing to give him the benefit of the doubt... but still... he doesn't quite restore his FULL trust in him until he proves himself a little at a time. One cannot seek redemption unless one admits their sins and looks to never repeat them. If you continue to repeat your sins (especially of hurting others), over and over and over and over again, who are you and where are you as a human being? You cannot be for humanity if you constantly look to harm others at every turn. There's no greater injustice than that. Anyone with a conscience, knows this. Anyone one with a heart, knows this. I really like what you say here... and it is VERY true. REAL redemption comes from REAL repentance... and you can fool some of the people SOME of the time... but in the end... no matter how hard you try... if you continue on in the same bad and destructive behavior over and over... the only one you've really fooled is yourself. Sad but true. Keep up the good work, Grey Guy... I will respond to your other post from last night a little later!! This has turned in to a very nice chat!! :-) Message was edited by: rohanaka

Hiya Chris... I haven't seen TSOKE in a long time... I think you are right about that comparison.

WANTED for RAMBLING: MOLO THE KID Warning: should be considered armed (with wit) and EXTREMELY "deranged-erous' Last seen in the company of a LARGE 6'3" WHITE RABBIT, answers to the name of Harvey. HA!!!! ARRIVING TOMORROW PROMISE Looking forward to your arrival, my friend!! :-) (I will put the ROPE on hold...for NOW!) Message was edited by: rohanaka

All for one and one for all EXACTLY!!

Ok... HOPEFULLY now... I finally have all my "together stuff". ha. So.. back to the ending... SPOILER ALERT.. I love how John T goes into this thing thinking he is ON HIS OWN... and then as things unfold... he sees who his real friends are (though he's always known it... it was good for him to SEE it still...) It is the good mix of humor AND of action... I especially liked how Dude even "shows up"... although he was already there... That is what I would love to see happen in a LOT of "prisoner exchange" movies... ha. The mention (April I think you said it) has been made that this film is NOT as edgy... it is much more laid back and "relaxed" so I can see why this is how the big "battle" scene played out... and that is why I thought it was a good way to go. Granted... it is NOT the most exciting "gunfight/dine-y-mite" scene ever... but it worked for me... and I liked the humor that went into it as well... There are other "showdowns" in this film that to me have a LOT more drama and suspense than this one... (like the scene Colorado refers to with the girl and the flowerpot, for instance..that to me was WAY more tense) But for some reason, I like that in the end... the BIG showdown was almost played as much for laughs (or at least smiles) as anything else... I guess I liked a "low stress" win for the good guys for a change.

I'm not crazy about the ending shootout, either, I can do without that. Aw, you guys are breaking my heart... I LOVED the way it all came together for them in the last big showdown (Before the REAL big showdown between Feathers and John T that is... It IS nice to have TWO endings to the story.. ha) SPOILER ALERT.. I love how John T goes into this thing thinking he is ON HIS OWN... and then at the last minute... he sees who his real friends are (though he's always known it... it was good for him to SEE it still...) Ok... obviously... I hit the wrong button... I was NOT finished w/ my post (I meant to hit "save") ha. So... HOLD that thought and I will be back in a moment... Ha. (Before the 24 hour deadline too.) Message was edited by: rohanaka

But of course, in the case of The Ox-Bow Incident, you are talking about "innocent people being accused of something they didn't do". And in this case, the folks here are talking about Burdette and his men, who are as dirty and scummy as any villains could be. They are no innocents.... As Chance says: "Let's get this straight. You don't like? I don't like a lot of things. I don't like your men sittin' on the road bottling up this town. I don't like your men watching us, trying to catch us with our backs turned. And I don't like it when a friend of mine offers to help and twenty minutes later he's dead! And I don't like you, Burdette, because you set it up." Doesn't sound like Burdette is so innocent, does it? WELL HELLO THERE MS FAVELL!!!!! Welcome to the party!!! And WHAT a very insightful, (not to mention APPROPRIATE) post!!!! :-) Very well said little lady. And PS...EVERY word you wrote.... true all true. Neither Burdette NOR his men were innocent... no matter how nicely dressed he was (didn't he look oh so sharp?) And his men... Weren't there boots OH so clean (all except the one who got caught...)

Well my gosh my golly..... MR GREY!!!!! Here I am typing my little heart out... and when I make my post and look around I find YOU!!!! I will respond to your fine comments when I am a bit less bleary eyed and worn out... but just wanted to respond to ONE for now.... Howdy, Quiet Gal! -- It's good to see you on the trail. What's that you got in your wagon (cart)? HA!!! That would be a WRENCH and a FROZEN ROPE you silly!! I am SO happy to see that I have NOT needed to use them on you... You've managed to dive right into our little ramble session.... I am PROUD of you, young'un... BUT..... that MOLO.... WHERE could he be???? I am keeping my "wagon" close by... Just in case I need to break out my "persuasive" peacemaker tools.... ( I'm always up for another round of CLUE... "Quiet Gal"... in the Westerns forum... with the WRENCH and the FROZEN ROPE) ha. :-)

*Howdy there April*... a few more thoughts... I like that Angie channelled "nervousness" very well. I think she was nervous while making this film and the slight tremor or vibration of it energizes her character. It makes "Feathers" a little birdlike and restive---she's flustering Big John but she's also hearing bells go off whenever he's around. To me, she doesn't come off as as smoothly self-assured as either Jean Arthur or Lauren Bacall, and yet she still discomfits the leading man. "Birdlike" is VERY correct... she DOES have a bit of "nervousness" that shows through behind all her bravado... and not to stretch the analogy too far... she also seems to have a sort of "flight or fight" quality about her too at the beginning especially.. She is able to dish it out...but she also knows that at any moment... she may have to hightail it out of there to keep her past from becoming TOO much an issue, should things have gone a different way with the local law enforcement. (OH... and PS... BIRDLIKE is probalby correct again...in her eating habits... did you see how TINY her waist was?? Ha.. I hate Feather's guts!! Literally!! ha. ...KIDDING... only kidding!!) I noticed lots of subtleties alluding to the "family" relationship. April... I think you and others have brought up a good point. They ARE like a family... much like many of characters in some of the other Hawks films mentioned already... John T is the authority Father-like figure.... (at one point... Dude even calls him "Papa"... now WHERE have we heard THAT before?) And Dude is like the long lost brother... trying to re-insert himself back into the family after a long time of being out of touch and after a lot of hardship as finally brought him back home (where they ALL know he belongs)... Colorado ends up being the kid brother... but NOT in a typical "I've got something to prove" sort of way... maybe he's not so much the kid brother as he is.. a visiting cousin who decides to up and stay awhile... ha. And STUMPY..... what a MOTHER HEN!! Ha. Worrying over everyone.. and keeping all the "chicks" in line with his smart mouthed replies... but still under the leadership of the head of the household... Ok... admittedly... they are a bit of an unusual family... but they all seem to know their role... and they live up to it famously. All very nicely played. *And HELLO Dude... I mean Mr. Grey!!!* :-) I thought it was a solid western. Of all John Wayne's characters that I have seen to date, And HOW many of his characters have you seen to date???? ha. Only kidding... knowing you... you've probably seen even more than me!!! (in fact... it would NOT surprise me if you told me you had a HUGE collection of Dukes films..... Oh wait... just because you have them wouldn't mean you've watched them....) I like John T. Chance the most. I thought he was absolutely terrific. I was expecting him to be some gung-ho, always-in-control sheriff and he wasn't this at all. He showed great humility and understanding. He was exceptionally warm. I cannot say enough about him. I have to agree with you that he was terrific... I hate it.. but I have to! This is one of my favorite roles for him, to be sure. And he DOES get to play a wide range of emotions.... not just the stereotypical one-dimensional sort of "good guy"... but still a VERY black and white character... would you not agree????????????????????????? :-) Walter Brennan was wonderful. This was the most animation I have seen from him. This is probably my second all time favorite character for Brennan... Stumpy is both the comic relief and also part of the "glue" that keeps the "family angle" stuck together. I love the way he backtalks and gripes his way through almost every situation... but still ALWAYS does the right thing... almost like a "disgruntled" good guy... ha. He's always having little mini conversations wwith people (who aren't there) just after (or before) his REAL conversations with them.. as if one way or another... he's gonna have his say...even if NOBODY else knows it but him. I actually liked Ricky Nelson's "Colorado" quite a bit. I liked his soft-spoken confidence. Now I know mention has been made about Angie Dickinson being young... but I have to say... Ricky Nelson is the one that to me seems almost TOO young for the role... (I recall someone somewhere saying this might have been Elvis in this role... I am SO glad it wasn't... but I digress) I think even though he still LOOKS a bit wet behind the ears... he is still able to carry it all off quite nicely... He is the right mix of "quiet but tough" combined with "slow to anger but quick on the draw" all at the same time. Their scenes together are excellent. They really make John T. Chance all the more likeable. Feathers is in control of John, and that's something I really like. This is the exact opposite of Only Angels Have Wings and different than To Have and Have Not. I think many guys can relate to John's just "taking it" from Feathers. I think that one thing too is that as a rule, JOHN T is FAR more of a "gentleman" with ladies than Geoff was... I think he has an opinion about the kind of girls people named "Feathers" usually turn out to be... based more on his experience as a "law man" than as a man in general... and THAT is part of why he resists her so much at the beginning... The kind of women he would USUALLY be interested in (for a long term relationship anyway) would NOT normally be found in a saloon OR be gamblers... OR be named "Feathers".... It is both to his CREDIT... and also it is a big reason why he is SO flustered by her as well.. I'm looking forward to more of your insights, sir... ramble on!! :-) Message was edited by: rohanaka

Thanks LW for visiting w/ us and sharing your thoughts on what I can only imagine (based on all the fun stories) must have been the trip of a lifetime. I enjoyed reading your comments... PS.. Thanks to Miss Maven too for inviting you here! :-)

after all...tomorrow...is another day! Thank you my dear friend... and let's hope. How'd you get a-holt of my screencaps Ha.. I say again.. Western minds think alike! :-)

April... looking at your screencaps... I thought they were MINE at first.. ha. (Western minds think alike) think Dean Martin fit in just like a glove in this scenario I think Dude and all the internal (not to mention external) battles he faces are among the most interesting aspects of the entire story... and a VERY fine bit of acting from MR. Martin... I have NEVER been too huge a fan of him... especially as an actor... but I can't think of ANYONE else who could have done such a fine job in that role. Dude has something to prove... to EVERYONE... to John T... to the whole town... ESPECIALLY the criminal element... but ALSO (and most importantly) to himself... He is TIRED of the man he used to be... but he is not quite able to shake the past... and who he still is for the moment... at least not without a lot of struggle. I loved the transitions he goes through... starting with the scene where they go after Ward Bond's killer... This is the first time where he REALLY acts as if he wants to be the man he used to be... When he and John T make their plans about which saloon door they will go in.... he wants to try the front door for a change: And at first... it appears more or less that he was still the same old "loser"... at least to everyone else.. but he KNEW what he'd seen.. and he was SURE the guy was there... and thanks to a twist of fate... he is proved right. And then EVERYONE especially JOHN T.. gets to see that he's beginning to grow back into the man he once was.... And then... he starts getting a little more respect...STARTING with John T... It's his first step toward being "righteous" again... it sort of reminds me... (again...one of those OAHW comparisons) of the role of McPherson... needing to prove himself and be made "clean".

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but I did immediately think of To Have and Have Not when I saw it with Rio Bravo. I was the other way around... I recently watcht THAHN for the first time a couple of weeks ago... and only a short while after all the talk about OAHW... and when Lauren Bacall said that line... I about jumped out of my chair because THEN I remembered that it was also in Rio Bravo...

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Hiya Ms Cutter.. (or should I say... HEY KOOLAID!) I am sure you know much more about Hawks then I, but based on my very limited knowledge, I think you are right about the "strong women" angle in Hawks films... and also about women who are able to not only "hang out" with the guys... but even stand up with (and/or to) them as well... And I think I recall you mentioning that Empire Strikes Back connection beforel.. Wow.. In a lot of ways, I am sure you couldn't get much more "different" than the storylines of Rio Bravo and TESB... but at the same time... there are some noticable similarities especially between Leia and a lot of the women you will see in some of the Hawks films as well. Thanks for bringing it up!!

Wow Ms Coopsgirl... that was a REALLY fun read.... thanks for sharing those links... they do almost sound like they could have been brothers in a way... especially with the Duke looking to make a name for himself while struggling in the shadow of his older sibling... And then finally receiving that due w/ time... I think they both were terrific actors (I know what a surprise.. ha) and it is sad that among today's film stars there seems to be none like them. Thanks for posting those links! Message was edited by: rohanaka