rohanaka
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Posts posted by rohanaka
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Hiya Chris... glad to hear Frank and I are not the only "abnormal" notetakers out there.. Ha.
I don't do this with every movie by the way... In fact.. I RARELY take notes on a movie I am watching for the first time because I don't want to get distracted by my "note taking". I just do this sometimes when I want to dig a little deeper in a story. It helps me to organize my thoughts a little more... and goodness knows... My thoughts NEED a lot of help!! Ha. :-)
I guess I need to dig out "Harvey" now too. I am so behind.
SLACKER!!! Ha. :-) Seriously... Hope you will get caught up sometime... you always have an interesting take on things. Start "digging" and go find that rabbit! :-)
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Hi Chris... thanks for bringing this one up.. I haven't seen it... (I know.. big surprise.. Ha) but I do recall seeing the trailer for it.... I think it is on our Sgt York DVD... anyway... just judging from that I can recall wondering if it was as "up to Gary" in quality as some of his other westerns or films. Still... I have been keeping an eye out for it.. hope I will catch it one of these days.
In a way I am glad it is NOT like Winchester 73... I got that on my Jimmy Stewart box set this past Christmas... and at first I did not think I had seen it, but then I did some checking and I believe i HAVE seen it... and was not "bowled over" by it... It is the only movie in that set I have yet to watch since I got them... I need to just quit resisting and at least watch it so I can get a better "feel" about how I feel about it... Ha.
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Have you guys ever taken a good look at what she carries around in that pocketbook
THAT is TOO funny... She has everything but her coin purse... OH wait..
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Kathy Krackpot
That's me all over!! Ha.
I will just say for now that I really enjoyed getting to see this one again... I have a whole new appreciation for Veta and her relationship with Elwood... and also her relationship with Harvey too...
I will wait til you or others have chimed in as I don't want to steer the conversation too far one way or the other yet.. Plus I want to go in a little more to some of the older posts here and give them a closer read..
But I have to say... I am looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts and what sort of notes you took... and to hearing what others have to say too..
Oh... and P. S.... the kiddling now has a new favorite song...
"Hop hop hop hop... hippety hop!!"
HA!! I had TOTALLY forgotten about that part!! :-)
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What's the matter there, sonny?? Couldn't you afford to buy yerself a REAL hat? If that don't beat all.. Ya doggone whippersnapper.. I guess ya spent all yer money on that there fancy black leather jacket instead...
Message was edited by: rohanaka
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Are you ready to break this movie down, Molo? Anyone else? I've got PLENTY to say.
Great... I show up at the corner of 18th and Fairfax... just like Molo said... and here I am just me, myself, and I...
Oh wait... here's someone now, leaning up against that lamp post..
Why, um, yes. Yes, I agree... that Mr. Grimes certainly WAS spiffed....
Oh yes... I'm just waiting around here too. My friends and I are supposed to have a chat about this movie we've been watching and...
What's that?? You are tired of martinis but you've been hankering for a nice tall glass of iced tea and a slice of chocolate cake?? Well.. what a coincidence. That's been on my mind too..ever since I got back from the library today...
Let's go have some cake just up the street at this little cafe I know... and in the meantime maybe some of my friends will show up ...
Say... I don't think I caught your name... What? Your name is Kathy?? Well.. what a coincidence.. so is MINE...
(guess this pooka has decided to hang around a crackpot instead of a rumpot....)
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Hello Rick.. I say again.. don't hold back now.. tell us how you really feel about this movie... HA! (I kid) :-)
Obviously we are not all going to like the same things... I am sure there are a lot of films you might like that I don't and there are probably even more that I would like that you won't.. that's what makes the world go around...
A couple of things... first... I agree with you that Uncle Charlie is no charmer (at least in the general sense of the word... I hope I never gave the opposite impression) I made a brief comment a little earlier to Frank that he is more of an "impresser" I guess... He throws money around and virtually exudes self confidence... He more or less forces people to look up to him by presenting himself as being above them all....
And also... I would say that with regard to your questions about his family and how long it had been... I think it had been a number of years... but not so long that young Charlie could not remember him... Her memories of him were as a little girl... and that is why he was so "larger than life" to her at first... but she also noticed things about him right away.. and seemed to realize that her memory did not live up to the reality she was seeing for herself.
And with regard to his childhood, there is a brief nod to what he must have been like as a kid when his sister talks about how after his horrible accident and brain injury their mother was worried he would never be the same on the outside or the inside... so he must have shown some differences following his recovery. I think his sister LONGED to remember him for the way he was... and perhaps had a bit of a desire to idolize him because she loved him so much and because she was emotionally fragile and missed her childhood days.
At any rate... you are right... It would seem strange that someone could go so long without a photograph... but again.. you have to look at it from a 1940's perspective and there were not as many people carrying some sort of photographic device with them everywhere they go like we all seem to do nowdays... back then... It was not likely that every family even had a simple camera... let alone multiple ones, camera phones, etc etc like we all do now.
Which also brings me to... the legal drinking age in California at that time. Was there one? And were there also laws about the age of workers serving such beverages??? I have no idea. But again.. I think this is one of those movies that in order to enjoy it, part of the package includes just taking it as it is and not trying to justify every point. There are some "stretches" in the story line... but for me, the characters more than make up for it.
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ghouls
I was only following Mr. H's lead....
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She is also conflicted at this time in her life, like many eighteen or nineteen year olds, and perhaps every one is just politely waiting for her to make up her mind what she wants to be....
It's a restless age to be sure... and I think she does sort of show that at least at the beginning...
(ps.. I am still wondering what I am going to be when I grow up... if ever I do, that is!! Ha.)
PS.. Barb... ANOTHER nice catch w/ the train... the Grey Guy is right. Your have a watchful eye.
PSS... Mr. Grey... when I made my comparisons between Uncle Charlie and Danny Boy, I should have pointed out that they have VERY different styles... Danny is more or "fawner" and a "pleaser" but he is a bit of a showman too... and Uncle Charlie is ALL for show... he comes off bigger than life and seeks to overwhelm and impress in order to sway those he wants to victimize... different methods... still the same sort or result.
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Mr. H... you left out the part where the town constable left the city gate wide open to allow the ghouls free access and then was too ill equipped to keep them from having free reign...
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Howdy do Uncle Char... I mean Mr. Grey...
actually saw Shadow of a Doubt before It's a Wonderful Life.
Now why doesn't that surprise me one bit??
I enjoyed all your screencaps... you always find just the right moments to make your points... nicely done.
I believe most every film of that era would cast the dynamic male as the attractive good guy while the bad guy would be viewed as the ugly, unlikeable jerk.
I agree maybe MOST were like that... but not all of those old black and white films were so "black and white" about their bad guys... Ha. (two examples... Night of the Hunter...pretty OBVIOUS bad guy... Night Must Fall... NOT so obvious and terribly good looking bad guy... at least for the first 1/3 or the movie or so... (the REST of the movie he IS pretty obvious though) there are several movies where you don't really know if the monster is a monster until he (or she) is revealed somehow... but you are right... this one... you know more or less from the start.. so whatever thinking that you are called upon to do as a viewer doesn't involve trying to decide at least THAT part of it...
The film is about deception. What we see on the surface isn't always true. Young
Charlie comes to learn this while others remain fooled, including her own family and the
respectable types in the community. This is how an evil force can take over a house
or a town or a country or...
I like how you put that all together... and I about like what you said later on about complacency being a part of the problem that leads to his success too. I think the Uncle Charlie is like "Danny Boy" in NMF... (YOU REALLY NEED TO SEE THAT MOVIE BY THE WAY) They are both "Watchers" and they look for EVERY opportunity to weasel their way into a victim's life.
They look for human failings and capitalize on them to their own advantage... For some victims it is because they are just too nice or too ignorant..and they are easily fooled because they only think the best of everyone. For other victims ... they are too arrogant or too self absorbed to think anyone would see them as "weak" enough to be preyed upon... which makes them possibly the most deserving target, yet still a target none the less. Other victims are poor and pathetic and easy pickings... and you likely feel the most sorry for that sort of victim... but it is all too easy to see how they can be used and tossed aside. There are a lot of different scenarios for how a monster chooses his target... but it all boils down to the fact that a good "watcher" takes advantage wherever he can find it... and like Danny, Uncle Charlie is no exception. And also like Danny a part of the package is that he sees them ALL as deserving what he gives them... they are all justified kills in his mind. (even the ones that aren't neccessarily "killed" in a literal sense but only are only a figurative "kill" by being used.... (That might not make sense... I guess I am saying... For Uncle Charlie.. EVERYBODY is a victim... whether he kills them literally or just kills their "innocence" by abusing their trust... he has targeted them all as his victim... and some of the ones that he leaves alive have no idea they've even been targeted... he is that good at being bad...)
I view Uncle Charlie as a predator and Young Charlie as his
young prey. The victims of abuse tend to be petrified of their abuser and the threats
they levy at them. Many of these threats are aimed at the victim's family. Those on
the outside of these situations usually say like you, "just get out, speak up." Fear
makes such a simple task extremely difficult.
Now see.. I don't see her like that as much as you do... I do agree she was his "prey"... and I even agree she was afraid... but I don't think she was "too afraid to act". I think she WAS fighting him... but just not on as equal a footing... she WAS a kid.. or at least a very young adult. And (I hate saying this) she WAS a woman and he was a very strong and threatening man. But I think if it had just been about HER and HIM... she'd have stood up to him and blown the whistle on him in a heartbeat... it was all about her FAMILY.
As it is... she DID stand up to him several times.. She tells him to get out and get out soon. And she finds several different ways to let him know she is watching HIM now too. And even when she is laying on the ground half dead from carbon monoxide... the first thing she says when she sees his face (and you can HEAR the hate and fight in her voice) is "LEAVE!" And then later... when she goes into that bedroom and finds the ring and puts it back on as she is walking down the staircase... she KNOWS she has him right where she wants him.. and he backs down immediately... She was a victim... but she wasn't too afraid to stand up to him..
I thought Jack's falling in love with Young Charlie
to be waaaaaaaaay too easy. I can see him being very attracted to her, but the love angle
was pushing it. It felt weird to me. Why? Because I did take Young Charlie to be
18 years old. He seemed to be in his 30s, although, he was actually 29/30. He was
called "young" in the film, so I believe Hitch was going for him being in his mid-20s. It
just felt forced to me.
Oh you MEN!!
I think that her age was likely supposed to be close to what you said.. 18 or 19.... but 18 or 19 back THEN is a lot different than it is now... and many young women then had a much different mindset (as did families in general) about age and what was acceptable... I think Carey's character was played to be mid to late 20's... but I think Charlie's was played to be a VERY mature and grown up 19. And if you compare her to her classmates (two goofy and giddy girls and one poor "dim" cocktail waitress) she was old enough and mature enough to handle such a relationship with someone who in a few more years would NOT have seemed so much older than her as time went by. It was a different era... and I don't think audiences back when this story came out would have given both her "staying home after graduation" or her "age difference" with Carey a second thought. Viewed from TODAY's standards...I see how you and Rick have a point and I can see how it seems "a stretch"... but back then, BOTH those things were very common... especially in smaller cities and towns like the one in the story. PS... BARB... Wow... great insight about the library... sometimes... knowledge IS a VERY scary and menacing thing...
PSS... Jackie... I liked your thoughts on the "growing up and coming of age" angle... and from a parent's perspective... color ME scared too! :-)
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Hi Butterscotchie...
My most favorite would be "Don't Bring Me Down"... I also like "Telephone Line, Evil Woman, and I Can't Get it Out of My Head"... there are others I like too.. but those would be my more favoite ones...
And YOU???
PS... OH WAIT... It has been so long since I listened to any of their music... I can't believe I almost forgot about this one...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9hMXnUty6s
I don't know now... Don't Bring Me Down... may be TIED with this one as my all time most fave for them..... I hate choosing favorites.. Ha.
(ps... both DBMD and HOTTYD are a lot less "orchestral" than some of their earlier stuff... but still I like them a lot for the harmonies and they are just a lot of fun to sing too.) :-)
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Wow Rick Spade... tell us how you really feel about Shadow of a Doubt! (Ha!) :-)
Ok.. I think maybe you are right about it not being a "top notch" film in the style of most Hitchcock films... it IS different from many of them in a lot of respects.. and I can also see where that and a lot of the "hard to buy" plot lines might be a turn off for you because I see from some of your other writings that you are a hard core noir kinda viewer... And based on my very limited knowledge of all things noir, I think sometimes those sorts of films are a lot more blatant in their honesty and often go out of their way to show their character's motivations in the harshest light of reality... (and if I am off on that... forgive me... I truly do NOT have a "nose for noir") But that may be part of what makes you want to "buy' the story more in order to like it... (at least I think... forgive me if I read you wrong)
If it helps you to understand better why none of the stuff that bothers you about this film bothers me... First of all, I never knew this was an Alfred Hitchcock film until several years ago... long after I had already seen it and liked it at least a couple of times... so I didn't have that sort of "Hitch" expectation about it... And I do agree, it doesn't necessarily seem "Hitch-ish" but not all of his films did... But I think you CAN see his influence on the film in a lot of the interesting "shots" and the way some of the story was filmed... but again... I am no expert on HIM either... so I likely would not explain it as well as others could. I don't know really what sort of "class" this film would best be called... Also, to me, it is not so much a "noir" or even a "mystery" or a "thriller".... but maybe it is more of a "psychological drama" with a certain level of "on the edge of your seat" suspense (at least for me) that comes from watching to see how all the pieces of the story will finally be put together and what sort of end result will come of it all.
For me, this film has never really been about "buying" some of the hard to buy plot lines so much as it has been about the characters and how they interact... especially the two Charlies. And it is also about "doubt" and how it plays on a person's perspective... first with young Charlie... and then also with Uncle Charlie as well. (And then also eventually with Ann too, which by the way... THAT is one of the things I never noticed before... how SHE seems to not want to be around Uncle Charlie all of a sudden and then later we find out that she and the "photographer" detective have been having all sorts of interesting conversations... he probably planted some seeds of doubt in HER mind about her uncle as well.. only maybe a little less "openly" than they did with Charlie... )
But anyway... Young Charlie goes from loving her uncle and more or less "worshiping" him to suddenly hating the very ground he walks on... And "doubt" becomes the running shoes that more or less lead her little feet down this sudden path of change. She doesn't waste too much time trying to ignore it all. Rather than rest in the blind faith she may have had for him as a child... the "new" young adult Charlie sees that she MUST put an end to the "wondering".. no matter what the consequence.. and she is very "proactive" in putting the doubt to rest... one way or another, come what may. I think this is due in part to the fact that she discerned for herself there was something going on with her uncle even before the two detectives told her what that "something" was.. (though I am sure she did not think it would be anything nearly so awful as what it ended up being when all was said and done) And then... when her uncle basically "comes clean" and confirms what she has been able to find out for herself... the "doubt" is all cleared up for her in an ugly and harsh way and the rest of her time in the story is spent trying to wrestle with what to DO about what she knows.
And I know you had a problem with it, but I can totally see why she wants to keep things quiet and get him away from there out of love and concern for her mother. She has a sort of "leadership" role in that family... She works with her mother to supervise the children, keep the house, cook, (and there are other times when she even seems to supercede her mother in a way at times.) Her mother really depends on her for a lot... And all throughout the film you can see how Charlie takes that seriously.
At that party where the mom goes on and on about how glad she is to have her brother back in her life again and how much she has missed him... you get a chance to see that she is a pretty fragile person emotionally... It would have killed her to know the truth... so Charlie wants Uncle Charlie OUT of the picture with as little fuss as possible.
So then once Charlie learns the truth about her uncle... and there is no more "doubt" for her... the story switches a little as HE becomes the one who then begins to "doubt" instead... and that is the interesting twist in this for me.
Today for the first time... I noticed a really interesting shot.... when he thinks he is free (after they learn about the guy w/ the propeller) and he tells her is going to stay afterall... he fairly skips into the house... and starts up the stairs... and then... DOUBT starts to be an issue for him. He doubts her faithfulness to her promise to him not to turn him in or tell... he doubts that he can keep her in line and starts plotting little accidents for her... And the way this all becomes apparant for the viewer is the shot of her in the doorway at the bottom of the stairs... and him on the staircase. As he turns around and looks at her, it is almost like you can hear him thinking... "I'm free, I'm free... oh wait... what about...???" And she has become a "shadowy figure of doubt" for him now.
Anyway.. I freely admit... if you think too hard about some of the "harder to buy" aspects of this story... it might not be as good a tale as if you just "go with it" sometimes and watch it for what IS good about it... and that for me is the characters and how they interact and come to terms with the "doubt" and what it does to the story as the thoughts they are facing in their mind become reality for them.
And PS.... I do agree that the two detectives' characters needed work... they were just about the hardest to believe out of all the characters in the story... but there are a lot of fun and interesting quirks and personalities in a lot of the other side characters (the dad and the neighbor) the little sister and brother.. even some of Charlie's classmates (including the girl who worked in the bar)
My favorite was "Herbert" (PERFECTLY played by Cronyn by the way) "He always comes when we are eating!" :-) I love how he and the dad sit around plotting how to kill each other.... all the whole time a vicious cold blooded monster is five feet away... right under their noses. Very fun "twist".
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Hi there Mr. Grey....
I haven't seen many Teresa Wright performances, but this is my favorite of hers of
date. And it's also my favorite Cotten performance, too. We agree. That means we're
both goners.
I was so happy I got to catch this one again today... I have not seen it in a while.... there were s few things I had forgotten... and even some things I had not noticed before.. And LOTS of fun getting creeped out all over again. Ha.
And PS... you are right... we're goners!! Ha.:-)
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I see we have a fondness for ELO. What do you like about them?
Hi Chris... I think I like them most because they were so "different" from a lot of the pop stuff that got played when I was a teen... They were "orchestral" but they had a much different take on it. It was a very original sound at the time. I also liked their use of harmony... I am always looking for the backup parts in a song... I'd rather sing the harmony than the melody in almost anything... and they have some really fun parts..
(PS... I think I liked listening to Queen for the same reasons ...at least at first... only I have to say I like Queen more. That Freddy Mercury was SOME singer.. but I digress)
What is your favorite ELO? Mine has always been "Don't Bring Me Down".
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So, the question is, how did your affection for the group change as the band changed?
You know... I was a very young teen when I first started noticing their music back in the mid 70's... and so when McDonald's influence came into that ( I am not sure exactly when it was but late 70s or very early 80s sounds right) I can't say that it was something that I was all that aware of on the whole. I just knew what I did and did not like to listen to at that age... but I couldn't neccesarily tell you why.
As I got older and my "musical ear" started to be more discerning I began to see the difference in style between the "before McDonald" and "after McDonald"... but by then the songs were so familiar to me... my affection for the group already included his songs as a part of the package so I never really "took sides". :-)
I only ever bought one album of theirs... it was a "Greatest Hits" album and it had a lot of their moer popular songs.. including his. (I have always been so "tight fisted" (ha) I used to buy a lot the "Greatest Hits" type albums so I could afford more of my favorites) .
There were a few bands or artists that I took the next step and built a collection... but by the time I became financially able to start "collecting".. the Doobies had stopped putting out new stuff and since I already had my faves all on one album, I never went in search for any of their individual albums. I imagine if I did that now, I would probably lean toward their earlier songs... I like McDonald's music ok... but not as much as a solo act as I did when he was w/ them... (so it is likely their influence on HIS sound that I liked more than his on theirs... (does that make sense?)
And maybe that is why I like Blackwater more than the others... because it is a very differnet style than their laters songs.... I have ALWAYS liked it (for the vocals and for the instramentals too) and it's just taken me all these years to understand why... I tend to gravitate more now than I used to toward that style... what exactly you would call it I can't say... cajunish countyrish almost "bluegrassy" ha. Whatever it is, it is way more "up my alley" in terms of what I listen to now vs when I was a kid...
*PS!!!!!*
Ha... I had to come back and edit my post.. I just reread some of what I wrote earlier about my favorite songs for them being a possible tie between Blackwater and What a Fool Believes...and even though I do lean more to a more "folksey" sound in my music nowdays.... I think I still have to stand by that statement... HA!
Maybe I WILL go w/ what I said at the beginning... Although I DO tend to lean more now to their older style of music, I have always liked their work as a package... so maybe I still can't take sides.... the nice part about it is.. I guess I don't really have to! Ha. :-)
Message was edited by: rohanaka
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Hello there, Mr. Grey....
I took two pages of notes while watching Harvey last night. That's a first for me.
Ha. You sound like me.. I do that sometimes too.... I have all these little scraps of old envelopes and post it notes, that have all my many musings about certain films.. Hey... do you think that means we are... "abnormal?" Ha.
Why would she say that? Well, she was bothered by his wearing an earring. Normal? Abnormal?
Well... I am sure each generation has it's on standard... "normal" sometimes comes in layers.
You already know Molo is sane and that I'm insane. Molo works well with me for this very
reason.
Well............ Ok. I will go w/ you on this one... Molo is sane and you are insane... ha. At least until Molo is proved otherwise... Ha!! Kidding Molo.... Just kidding!!!!!!!!
Shopping cart... wrench, it's all the same
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha and HA!
I am going out to the shed and getting the biggest wrench I can find... and then I will have BOTH... (The longer I hang around here.... the more "crazy" characters I seem to find.... and it pays to be prepared!)
I will look forward to hearing more from you on all of this.
PS... MOLO.. I am pretty sure I will be able to get this one soon, I have seen it at the library on a couple of different occassions.
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Wow Grey Guy!!!
Very fine post!! You are off to a nice start! I can see already that I just need to do what I have been thinking of doing anyway and go check out a copy of Harvey and rewatch it all myself.
I can tell this is going to be one of those times when you are going to dive in head first and I want to be up on all the interesting twists and turns you and others are going to take on here... I will look forward to seeing you get to "rumblin" a little further on Old Elwood and Harvey... et al.
It's been my experience that those who are different than us end up being
labeled as "abnormal." That is, unless, we are very self-aware of our own "craziness."
So... are you saying that: A) WE are ALL crazy and we should NOT look at anyone else as being ABNORMAL? :
OR....
YOU (and Molo) are the "us" and every one else is labeled as "abnormal" because you are different from them and unaware of your own craziness???????? -
Hi Jake.... THANKS for Blackwater!! I think that would have to be my all time fave for them... or maybe a tie w/ What a Fool Believes... I also like Long Train Running, China Grove, and Minute by Minute.
Which brings up an interesting point... their music really changed a lot over the years... especially w/ the addition of Michael McDonald when he was with them... but they still have a VERY recognizable sound...
Thanks for the background info... I haven't followed their careers at all, either way back when or recently... so I can 't say for sure... but I think they have been made and remade more than a couple of times since they started. Still... they always seemed to be VERY easily identifed by that "Doobie sound".
My husband saw them live way back in the early 70's. I imagine they were still a pretty young band... but then HE was a pup then too (about 19). Ha. (It was when he was in the army, and I think he was stationed in Germany at the time, but don't quote me) He still says, after all these years, it was one of the best concerts he ever went to.
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Hi Jake...
Wow..I need to go back and edit my list again... between you and Jackie... I keep finding ones I left off... I love the Doobie Brothers. And I have several fave songs for Aerosmith, Zepplin, and Skynard too... though I don't know if I would list them as favorite bands overall...
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Wow, Ms. Favell... that's some list!! Something for every mood!!! (Patsy Cline... I should have thought of her myself..) :-)
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you are all just on the edge of your seats about all this aren't you?
In a word..... YES!!! :-)
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If I had to chose a favorite Bob... it would be the Knocking on Heaven's Door that you and Ms. Cutter discussed over in Rambles the other day...
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Bob Dylan
I like some of his stuff better than others... the one you chose is a good one!
YOU (and Molo) are the "us" and every one else is labeled as "abnormal" because you are different from them and unaware of your own craziness????????
Movie Rambles
in Films and Filmmakers
Posted
Kathy, you will love and appreciate this movie, I just KNOW it
Well my little Bronxgirl... you were RIGHT!!!! (Sorry to be so late to the party, folks) :-)
I was so happy to get to watch A Tree Grows In Brooklyn last night. I don't know why I haven't seen it before... just one of those "things" I guess... but I did enjoy it very much..
You all have said so many things about this film already... so I don't know what I can add to these rambles that would not just seem like overkill... but I will make a few comments...somehow I am sure I can manage to find SOMETHING to jabber on about... :-) (I know... big surprise... Ha)
I think this story really has an interesting title... because it sounds very "poetic"... and Jackie... you mentioned the poetry angle I believe... I may be re-stating someone else's thought... But the "tree" in the title is not the one outside their window in the story... It's Francie...
Think of her life... and how she is the "best" of both her parent's (but mostly of her dad) and how she is there... in that "hard" life sprouting so BEAUTIFULLY in the middle of it all. Her mother gave her the strong roots... and her father gave her the lovely branches... She's the tree.
I also agree that there are some comparisons to How Green Was My Valley... nice catch there, MissB. Aside from the uncanny physical resemblance between Peggy and Roddy..... their two characters were similar in a lot of ways.
I think there are some differences too though, from the other movie... because their family unit is NOT built from the same sort of strong weave as the one in HGWMV... the mother was still the tie that bound them together... But in a MUCH different way... And the two father's were VERY different... and Neely was WAY different from the brothers in HGWMV...
But one other thing that WAS similar (at least in my mind) to HGWMV... was the use of music...
Jackie.. I think you are right that there did not seem to be much of a "score" for this film... butstill there was music going on almost ALL the time... it was playing in the streets or in the other apartments... or Johnny was singing.... or the church bells and congregation were singing... almost throughout the entire movie... and almost to the point of distraction for me. But I think it was there for a reason... it was the music... the sound, if you will, of their lives. Sort of like a little "opera" going on in the background.
There were a LOT of interesting moments in this story that add so much to the understanding of these characters and who they are as people... Francie telling the librarian that she is working her way alphabetically through every book in the library (and the librarian giving her "another" book to keep her from getting so weighed down by the one she had chosen).... Neely and his "streetsmart" attitude.... he has NO illusions about his dad by the way... (he is too much like his mom in that regard) Johnny with his big dreams... I like how Sissy tells Francie that he always "means it" when he makes them those golden promises... just that sometimes things don't always work out... And SISSY... ha... She was SOMETHING. But her heart seemed to be as big as all outdoors. I also liked McShane... what a STAND UP guy...
And I loved the part where BILL finally gets up his backbone and becomes STEVE. The Grandmother says... "We FINALLY have a man in the family." ha. And wasn't SHE something?? I loved the part where she tells the children their reading WILL go on... and why.
And then... there was Mama... Dorothy Maguire did such a good job in this film... she showed just the right range of emotion throughout. She was a perfect example of a woman whose dreams had all but gone... and had who become SO caught up in surviving she'd forgotten the need to "live".
Katie totally ignores... I think on purpose... the sick little girl's pretty new dress... because she doesn't think it is a good idea to spend money on such things. (and ps.. I LOVED how later on.. Johnny makes over that little girl and how beautiful the dress is... and Francie sees it all) ... and then later on, Katie tells (I think it was Sissy) about how Johnny would have bought her babies dolls instead of bread if she had let him... She KNOWS money is not for anything "frivolous" because she has learned it and lived it the hard way. She won't even give a "thank you" dime to the iceman who helped her family move. She is not miserly.. she just can't afford the luxury of being kind with her coins.. That money is there for her family's "needs" and nothing else matters.
Her little can of pennies was the thing that kept her head up... and it was more about "pride" for her family rather than "pride in her family". They all had such a struggle due to Johnny's drinking and lack of income... that her driving desire was to make sure she and her family stayed "above" the poverty of character that so many gave into while they were fighting physical poverty as well. (I loved how everytime she runs into McShane she goes out of her way to tell him that her family is NOT a problem and that they are all staying out of trouble and do not need any help)
Katie had NO time for dreaming or for letting her children dream as well... But deep inside her, there was a little ember of the woman she used to be still glowing and it was beautiful when it would shine from time to time. I loved the scene where Johnny comes home from that party and she starts letting herself relax and enjoy the stories and she even relives some of the old "romance" with him... but then that reality of their present life just drags her back down again... and the moment is lost.
After Johnny's death.. she starts to take stock of her own life.. and what she'd become... and she realizes not too many people would mourn her passing the way they had his... and it works on her. I liked the transition... the conversation with the bar owner and then next with Francie seemed to be the "nudge" that finally got her rolling in the right direction...
I loved the ending w/ McShane.. He holds back a LOT earlier on in the story out of respect for their pride.. and admiration for Katie.. And then when he decides it is time to NOT hold back anymore...I loved the way he makes the WHOLE family a part of the decision
And then I loved the way the two kids start to speculate on their futures (and on all the stuff their sister will miss out on) while they are talking up on the roof. What a great closing line... "AW... cut the MUSH!" :-)
PS. Barb... you mentioned the coffee too.. you are so right... It is ALL throughout that film... and it gets used in a variety of ways... but mostly it seemed to be a drink to draw strength from or to maybe "center" themselves in moments where things seemed to be getting out of hand. "Francie.. make some coffee"... It was like the one thing the mother knew would help when they were trying to figure out how to make everything else work too.