rohanaka

watch THE QUIET MAN and eat green cupcakes Hmmm.. that sounds like a WONDERFUL idea...as long as the cupcakes were "green" because of the frosting... (and not because they'd been "around" too long!! Eeww) Here.... THESE will do quite nicely... and as you can see... there's enough here for all of us!! Woo Hoo!

Very nice take! Clem is the Eastern world, the civilization that is coming to the West... she is an altogether more refined creature than any of its present citizens I think Clementine is presented as an ideal... she is absolutely flawless... in form and in substance... but still once you get past the surface... she had a few 'surprises". She seemed to be made of a lot sterner stuff than most folks seemed to think, judging by the way they treated and talked to her. I think Wyatt was very surprised at her just walking right in to Holliday's room (when she first shows up) without even hesitating... And EVERYONE was surprised at her sitting in the saloon waiting for him.... a tiny little island of "perfection" in a sea of ne'er do wells. I admire (and yet wonder about) how she traveled around from place to place before she finally got to Tombstone and found "Doctor John".... to me that was either the sign of a VERY determined and committed woman... or someone who was really desperate... I am still trying to decide. Ha. Chihuahua is the old, "wild west" with its unruliness, it's brashness and lawless ways. She flashes danger and, frankly, life in her eyes and is every inch as bold as any of the rough wranglers in the saloon. You have her pegged perfectly. Another thing I see in her is a LOT of anger. She is mad at EVERYONE and she has a very short fuse... because I think life (especially MEN) have worked that anger into her. She was bold... and she was rough... and she was NOT going to let anyone see her in a weak moment. But in all honesty.. I think Chihuahua and Clem could both have ended up like each other... if the situations in their lives had led them there.. they both had a similar determination in their character makeup that made them strong... (or at the very least made them try their level best to avoid appearing weak.) Now whatever happened in their lives to make them that way was obviously what made the difference in how they ended up as people... But they each had their own reasons for doing what they did... and they stayed focused on those reasons long after and in spite of the fact their circumstances told them they were wrong. I think they both clearly looked at each other as rivals... but if you take the reason for their rivalry out of the picture... I could almost see how they could have ended up if not liking each other, then perhaps each having a mutual respect for the other. I agree about how Wyatt views both women... when he first pays any attention to Chihuahua, he KNOWS she is trouble... and deals with her. But I think he later comes to realize he may have judged her a little too harshly as he sees her strength, especially at the end... and that may be a bit of what leads him to "salute" her the way he does as he is walking by that window. And you are right... when Wyatt first meets Clem... he is up on his feet in record time when he realizes she is no ordinary traveler. She brings out the "gentleman" in him and makes him WANT to be the man his Mama likely raised him to be. I really like the part where he and his brothers make a point of telling themselves and some of the passersby (in that LONG, long procession of people) that they are not going to help ring in the new church.... but then later on when SHE comes out and asks him if he will escort her to church... he is on it "like a duck on a Junebug". Ha. :-) (PS...I loved the running gag first w/ his brothers and then later with her when they all comment about how sweet the morning air smells... and he says... (much to his chagrin) "It's me"... ha!!!!

I never appreciated before what an exquisite voice Deanna had. Better late than never! Hi there little Missy... thanks so much for that beautiful youtube post... count me in with the "better late than nevers". :-)

the fault is in me, not my copyist. Well... then I think you are worrying over nothing... and besides.. I am hoping we get graded more on content than on form... otherwise I am in BIG trouble myself. ha. PS.. What is your "take" on the two women. I think they were polar opposites in a LOT of ways.... but still VERY similar in some respects....

Hello there, Miss Clementine.... Brennan is so cold-blooded that his "Pa" Clanton ranks as my top villain for westerns. It's not just that he plays mean---I can see old Walter getting testy and nasty or bad tempered, but he goes a long way beyond that with this characterization. When I look in his eyes I see somethihng I just can't look at very long. It makes me feel cold, like a grave. I mean he just is beyond the pale That is a perfect way to say it... I think this is one of his most outstanding performances... and really.. he gets very little screentime in the story... so he makes use of what time he has to be sure. That's why I say it's "poetic", like a troubador's ballad of chivalry. It was a very "non western" moment. Mature's character is VERY non-western like (in a lot of ways) but I guess that is because he wasnt' from the west. Ha. He was a very relunctant "good guy" and he had a HUGE dark side. You were never really sure (most of the time) whether he was fighting it or even wanted to fight it) but he DID seem to have some very shining moments in the middle of the dark. many errors and poorly constructed sentences in that old post that I blush to see it repeated. I thought it was VERY eloquent and quite poetic in its own right... and if you saw any errors at all... I hope it was not due to my poor "copy and paste" skills... I had some difficulty getting everything protected from the rotten "indentation" monster so I might have accidently cut a word or two while I was lining it all up... please forgive any unintended edits by this technophobic wretch. :-) Message was edited by: rohanaka

Not as appealing as Now THAT's a super hero who commands respect for SURE.. Ha. Only if Superkitty came to rescue me, I would be so allergic... he'd have to replace the cape and and big red "S" with one of those hazmat suits instead. Ha.

listening to one's own heart, NOT listening to "silver-tongued devils", be they old Scratch himself, dictators of countries, or ordinary people who enjoy manipulating the truth because they themselves are listening to the false voice within. Wow... Barb... I always find myself thinking this after your posts... "Wish I'd said that!"... Nicely worded. I make it seem like Webster is a cartoon superhero, lol. Now I don't think you are giving yourself enough credit, young lady. Because I am starting to see how that sort of comparison might not be too far from the mark. TDADW is, after all, a tall tale.. and I think a lot of present day "superhero" stories could owe a debt to these old tales, in a way. I wonder what Edward Arnold would have looked like with yellow boots and a flowing red cape billowing behind him in the wind... (no tights though... I don't think I want to imagine THAT much)

If you get the DVD see if it is the one that carries both versions. There is the real release and a version that was what Ford wanted. The distictions are small but important PS..thanks for the tip on that... I didn't even know there were two versions..

Brennan played a part quite so nasty to this point but he was scary. SPOILER Alert: Oh my golly Chris, when he is sitting next to the bed looking at the body of his dead son... and then pulls out that shotgun right after Virgil Earp walks out the door... that was one of the most violent moments I can ever recall in nearly ANY western film... let alone a Ford film.. CHILLING! (Spoofed it in "Support Your Local Sheriff.") I checked that one out at the library about a month ago because I have always enjoyed it .. what a riot.... and don't ask me how, but Brennan takes all the same creepy elements of his character in Clementine.. and somehow the "spoof" is SPOT ON creepy... but hilarious. He is my all time FAVORITE character actor.

Oh my gosh and oh my golly.... Oh! My Darling Clementine!! I love going to the library. :-) I have been so happy to be able to check out a lot of old films I have never seen before.... and (like the one mentioned above) a lot of old films I have wanted to see again for a very long time. When I was thinking about this ramble... so many thoughts popped in my head. I know that this film has been discussed elsewhere on here, folks.. so first of all.... thanks for bearing with me while I bring it up again... I went around looking for some old conversations that other folks had had on My Darling Clementine and found several. But one of the chats I found really leaped off the page for me... and I remembered how much I enjoyed reading it when it was first posted, back this summer in the TCM Summer School class... SO... I hope I don't get in trouble for copying someone else's homework... but.... I think this is a beautiful way to start this conversation... Way back in July of this past year (again.. this was in the "John Ford and Westerns: TCM Summer School") lzcutter wrote: MissG, I have to ask (especially since you brought it up), what makes Clementine poetry for you? To which Miss Goddess then eloquently replied.... "Sigh" I get stars in my eyes just thinking about it. I cannot define poetry in any of its forms, it's just a feeling, a certain almost lyrical way in which the movie is paced and presented. It has such a personal rythm and cadence that reminds me of poetry Scenes travel into one another in a way that is utterly unique (I'm not referring to the editing, I'm referring to whatever it is the mind of the man who made the movie that influenced the decisions regarding how to film and place each scene in relation to the others). Poetry is the most personal of the arts in my opinion, and the "poetry" I find in My Darling Clementine might be better called the personal, idiosyncratic elements, Ford's "fingerprints". The man created a ballad of the old west. The name and the sad tune it inspires, "Clementine", sets the tone. Played in the opening credits, the ballad tells us from the start that this will be no ordinary telling of an oft repeated wild west tale. Henry Fonda as Wyatt Earp is a besotted and loyal cavalier and Clementine, in Anderson's words, is his "lady fair". In My Darling Clementine I find no comparison to any other movie, in spite of so many familiar western elements and motifs! I sometimes even forget about that famous shootout at the end, because it's all the things that have gone before that stay in my mind: Earp seeing himself in the mirror after his shave and haircut; the way he dances---funny and stiff---while the manner in which the dance is filmed is as formal as if it were an English ballroom scene; The weightless manner of Henry Fonda's movements, his occasional stillness and his cat-like body language; The look on Earp's face when he first encounters Doc Holiday in the saloon, wary of his violence yet curious at the mixture of education and pathos, unexpected in such a town. And what kind of an is it that turns away a creature like "Clementine"?). Also the way he watches Doc watching Alan Mowbray recite Shakespeare. Earp gives us more reasons to wonder at and sense the mystriousness of Doc's character than Victor Mature does, great as he is in the part, because we essentially see Doc through the eyes of others: Earp, Chihuahua and Clementine. Doc himself never lets us in.; Chihuahua's wink as she lay dying, and the brief glance up at her window as Earp heads down the street to the corral; All those images and point of view from which they are shown, are from the mind of someone far removed from dry history or even the harsh realities of turning in a viable commercial product to a demanding studio head. WOW... ok... maybe I should rethink all this because NOTHING I am going to add now is going to matter... probably NOT my smartest idea for starting a ramble... (Ha.) But I will say that it was a REAL treat for me to watch this film again. In fact... it had literally been so long since I saw it last that I had virtual NO recollection of much of the "specific" story other than the basics... the Earp boys were in it... and Walter Brennan played the bad guy. And oh my golly... was he ever one bad DAD. Ha. In fact.. if I have any real criticism of this film it would be that he doesn't get NEARLY enough time on screen. He starts out VERY menacing... and then later.. when he tells his son in the bar... Something like... "When you draw your gun on a man.. KILL HIM." you get a clear understanding of who he is and how he has molded and made these monster sons of his... but I still would have liked more interaction with him and Fonda... but I guess John Ford forgot to ask me what I thought about that when he was making this one... ha. April... you are so VERY right.... there are some truly poetic moments in this film.... It is BEAUTIFUL to look at... almost so much so that it hurts sometimes. And to be such a legendary "bloody battle" sort of tale... it is SO tender and full of such emotion in places that you almost forget what's coming at the end. I LOVED the scene where Doc Holliday helps the poor old drunken actor finish Hamlet's soliloquy..... I think it is my favorite scene for Victor Mature. And even though he is likely far "more legend than fact" in this telling of the story... the way he resisted doing the right thing...just because it was right... and more or less had to work through the inner struggle of his own eminent "to be or not to be" thoughts was a very effective for the way Holliday's character was written. Henry Fonda is starting to grow on me more and more. Ever since I re-discovered him (ha) in The Oxbow Incident... I am getting a better appreciation for his ability to bring specific personalities to life in some of his characters. He was heroic... stalwart... yet still VERY fallible and even "awkward" (around Clementine) in this story... it was all very well played on his part. I won't go so far as to say this is my all time favorite Ford western.... I really wouldn't even put it in the top 3.... but it is a very good story and it really goes a long way to show how Ford seemed to almost relish bringing the whole "MYTH" aspect of Western stories to life in an almost "celebratory" way. I hope it will not be NEARLY so long for me to get a chance to see this one again.

Only when I care about the characters... Some love stories makes more sense if everyone just loves each other from afar.

Hi Chris.... I bet you are right about how folks likely were thrown together/pulled apart that way. I think I even mentioned something about that in an earlier ramble on this... but I have jabbered on and on about so MANYthings on here lately... It's hard for me to keep track! And in all honesy, I have to admit the whole "romance unresolved" aspect "works" for the story as a whole... But..... I thought it a good idea they let it go. More realistic to me Realistic-shmealistic!! Ha. I wanted them to find each other again!

The look on her face when she sees him there says it all, The whole romance angle in this film is such a nice turn... in some ways I wish the story had gone more in that direction but then it would have been a MUCH different movie. The whole unresolved "did he ever find her again" thing is just so heartwrenching... it really does add to the emotion of the film. But it is also one of the most AGGRAVATING movie romance moments I can ever remember seeing in a long time... Ha! I wanted to throw something at the tv screen when it was all over and he still had not found her.... I was like.... WAIT... what about Donna Reed???? Ha. Guess old Pappy just didn't bother to ask me MY opinion on that one... Ha. :-)

I love how Donna Reed looks at him in that scene. April... I love the way that whole thing is done... and when he ends up GOING to the dance.. it is so "sweet"...

Hello there, Mr. Webst..I mean Mr. Grey!! All I'm doing is making an assumption about Daniel Webster's speech to the "Jury of the Damned" being one made to the American people. That's how I take it. These are my opinions, nothing more. And you have raised some excellent points!! I think you have a good case presented... I really do see that even if it was not a blatant statement... it could have been one that was made in general given the time and the events going on in the world. You will see the words "free" and "freedom" used a total of ten times in Webster's powerful speech. It may not be America's cause but it's man's cause. Though I am happily not on THAT jury... I will cast my vote for the defense... nicely said. :-)

Color me happy, happy, happy!!!! "Alright...You can be Gus"

Well thank goodness she made it into the screenplay. That was a worthy addition! Believe it or not... I agree! (even in SPITE of the ga-ga effect she seems to have on some folks around here. ... (Ha) To borrow a phrase from the old "hair color" commercial... I won't "hate her" because she's beautiful... Ha. But it IS fun to hate her for being rotten! And oh my golly, she was WAY too good at being rotten.

Webster wasn't going to let Medford rum or Mr. Scratch get in the way of his oratorical skills and his patriotism In the right hands... determination can be a beautiful thing... :-)

Hello there Jabez Grey!! Ha. :-) I wanted to comment on a couple of things with regard to Dieterle and some of the stuff you said about the "German" aspect of all of this... whether or not he was thinking of Hitler, I am not sure... But it WOULD make sense given the political climate of the time and also the fact that this whole story has a lot of "american patriotic" influences. I decided to do a little "googling"... and found out some points of interest with regard to TDADW that helped me get a little more perspective on this issue and a even a few other things as well.... Steven Vincent Benet wrote the original story... (which I already knew that ) and he also had a hand in the screenplay (which I also knew) but in between all that, he also adapted the story into an "opera"... which I did not know until I got to "googling" around. AND all of this whole writing process for him... from the time the story was published in 1937, the opera in 1938, and the film in 1941 took place while Hitler was a VERY prominent figure in world politics. So whether the line "Don't let this country go to the devil" was influenced by Dieterle's background... or by S. V. Benet's own American heritage.... it IS a message that folks seeing this film in that day and age would very likely have associated with the times they were living in... So NICE CATCH on that, Mr. Grey. I think a good case can be made for what you say... at least in general terms. And also in the midst of all this googling... I got a chance to re-read the short story The Devil and Daniel Webster.... (I read it in high school... and I remembered VERY little after all these years) but for anyone interested... here is a link: http://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/lpop/etext/devil/devil.htm What I found the most shocking (because I just did not remember it at all) was that the only three "characters" who have any real interaction in the original story at all are Jabez, Daniel and Scratch... Mary is never given a name (and is only slightly referred to as Mrs. Stone) Miser Stevens is already a "Moth" by the time you meet him in the story. ALL of Daniel's speech to the jury is left out, and all you get is a summary of what he says.. . NO dialogue.(in fact... a lot of the short story is just summary of events... told in the third person.. NOT much dialogue) MA STONE is NOT a character in the original story or even referred to at all. AND neither is... drum roll please...(Molo and Frank... this will hurt) Neither is BELLE. Now I did see that Mary gets a name in the opera... but I have NO idea how big a part of the story she is. And I also do not know if any of these missing characters and added story line are a part of the opera either... but it is very interesting to read the short story... and see how the possibility of all these characters COULD have been in the author's mind as he was working it all out... it is almost like the "short story" was just a rough draft and the movie filled in the rest of the blanks... But I honestly do not know if that is true or not as I do not have ANY idea how big a part he had in the screenwriting... and HOW much of a fill in was done on the missing pieces when he wrote the opera. But at any rate, I think this was all pretty fun looking into it... so thanks for humoring me while I rambled in the midst of the ramble, there. :-) And again.. I say.. Mr. Grey.. good call on the patriotic angle of things... if it was not an intentional thing.. on the director or the writer's part... I believe it was a nice "side effect" given the time it was written and the things going on in the world... "Don't let this country go to the devil." was definitely a "line" of the times... In fact... hmmmm.... I think I might want a bumper sticker AND a tshirt for that one even now myself!! :-) (But that is another ramble for another place, I am sure). PS Barb... Daniel Webster knew how to fight the evildoers At the very least.. he knew how to out talk them, anyway! :-) Message was edited by: rohanaka

Hello there, Molo!!! Welcome back to the chat, my friend!!! And thanks for bringing in some more good thoughts to munch on, sir. Jabez needs more assurance than Ma's optimism or Mary's support. He is restless and he is looking for a way out. Mr. Scratch is hanging around waiting to jump in. I sensed they were in real trouble here. Sympathy and good cheer were not what Jabez was looking for.. You are right about this... his disatisfaction and worry make him the perfect "mark" for Scratch. I originally just chalked the situation up to the broad characterizations of a folktale. I didn't question character actions as much as in another type of story. I thought, like Frank, that it strained belief that Mary would put up with it and that this was just another example of the "waking dream" (Thanks Barb) ) aspect of the film. You really made me think more about this by getting into the characters more deeply than I did originally. I think a good case can be made that there are some "broad" brush strokes with a lot of these characters... but I can also see the motivations behind them that give them a bit more narrow focus as well... it is an interesting combination. I bet it helped having the author be a part of the whole filmmaking process as well. The look on her face is very moving. She is hurt, she is humiliated and she knows, still, that she must remain quiet for now. She realizes she needs help with all of this. That was a well played moment for Shirley... (the screencap you posted says it all) she is ashamed... she is brokenhearted... and she knows she is beaten... if only for the moment. I think Ma knows Mr. Scratch. She is too wise and old not to have ever come in contact with him. She just doesn't deal with him. They don't travel in the same circles. Scratch himself admits he doesn't like being around Ma. I like seeing the story in these terms. I'm going to stick with it. I like that!! I think I have to go with you on that one too... I bet this is not the first time she's seen him coming down the road... even if she never literally see him coming. She knows he's always in the neighborhood. Late in the film he tells Miser Stevens that souls do not exist. This is all self denial. Jabez knows better, so he's not so much stupid as he is a fool, and a selfish one Perfectly said. I think when he tells Miser Stevens that ... he is wishing it were true... but they both know it's not. Ah Belle..... Yeah, yeah, yeah... Blah, blah blah!! PS.. Grey Guy... Jabez is heading down the path of damnation. He started out wanting to do good by his family and friends with his new found wealth, Are you reading this Quiet Gal? Again I say.... blah blah blah...... and BLAH!! Ha.

Good eve, Ma Stone Howdy there, sonny boy. :-) I'm still on the other side of the fence with Jabez being selfish throughout How selfish ofyou!! Ha. A mother should tell a boy what to do, so he can learn, but she shouldn't tell a man what to do, or he won't. THAT could be a bumper sticker!!! Nicely said. For our conscience to be truly effective, we not only need to understand right, we must also understand wrong That is a very UNGREY thing for you to say, Mister Grey Guy!! I'm impressed! :-) And I think it is a really good point. ( I can't believe we actually AGREE about something that sounds so "black and white"! ) I agree with all of that, except for the first three words of the second paragraph Well... THAT is because YOU still have a LOT to learn.... (I will be like Ma Stone... and will NOT try to change your mind, Jabez... I will just let you keep going your wrongheaded way until you wake up and figure things out for yourself!!!) I do wish to return to They Were Expendable and How Green Was My Valley. I didn't notice Jackie being on the board all that much this past week, so I hope she's around on the board this week. Both her and Rey deserve more attention for all that they wrote about They Were Expendable. And never fear, we will have WILL ROGERS ready with the rope if you try to sneak out of those deals... A mother's work is never done!! :-)

Hahahahahahahahaha.... and ha! (she is a big hero here in this neck of the woods.) :-) A town near us in the southern part of KC holds a street fair every fall and we go out there sometimes... they did a re-enactment of some "old timey" days ... cowboys shooting up the town, etc... and a sheriff and posse round them all up and run them in to jail.. But as a part of the show... "Old Carrie" shows up and clears out the local saloon as well. Watta gal! :-) Message was edited by: rohanaka

we get enough of that type of nonsense as it is Are you speaking of the USUAL Grimes nonsense... or THIS: a post edit...post edit...post edit.... continuing nightmare forever. (Which is another kind of nonsense altogether...) On both counts, I heartily agree... we have ENOUGH already! :-)

Hello Ms Cutter... Many thanks to you and everyone else for sharing all these stories and interesting facts about the fun you folks had in Atlanta... I think this experience you just shared about chatting (almost at leisure from the sound of it) with Robert Osborne has to be one of my favorites of all.. this whole experience has got to be so much fun for all of you to just sit back and savor if only for these sorts of moments not to mention the excitement of being able to share your favorite films on tv with everyone. "Envy Green" is not usually a color I wear all that well... but picture me... green all over. :-)

Edit your post to read: "Frank is right I can't do that!!! Just READING those words right now is giving me a headache!! If I had to actually TYPE them... I may never recover!! Besides... as wily as that old trickster is... he would just go back and edit his post too to say that he agreed with everything I said...ESPECIALLY the first three words of that paragraph... then I would have to re edit everything again and so on and so on. It would be a post edit...post edit...post edit.... continuing nightmare forever. At least if we leave it the way it is NOW... everyone wil just read what he wrote and think.... "Oh that crazy Frank Grimes... he's just so WRONG all the time!!" (hey... THAT could be the start to a BEAUTIFUL poem)