rohanaka

Howdy there Mr. Grey... Thanks for all the comments, and may I say you are on a roll w/ this one as well, sir. And PS.. VERY nice use of the screencaps... Miyagi-san :-) But he was still sharin'. He was sharing his love for himself with everyone else. You are JUST not going to let that one go are you.. Ha! Ok... he loved everybody and he shared stuff...yadda yadda... But STILL I say... his motivation for almost everything he did was his pride.. Even if he shared with his neighbors he did it from a "look what I am doing to help you because I'm such a great guy... not like that low life Stevens" point of view... and he DID love his family... but he still loved himself more.(almost up to the very end of things) and... Ha! I like how Jabez asks his mother about money from a standing position, as a man, and then he crouches below her, like a boy. That was a great little tidbit... nice observation. I think... even when he was FULL of himself... he still had a level of respect for his Ma and even for her authority over him. If she had told him at the very beginning of things to give the money back to whoever he got it from... and really put her foot down... I wonder if he would have done it. (or at least tried) But again.. if she had... he would have still had the same poor attitude of selfishness in him and would likely have had (believe it or not) worse issues later on somehow. This was a major "job" that needed to be done in him... and I think she knew it was one of those "hard" lessons. Sometimes folks can learn the easy way.. but something tells me, Ma knew her son well enough to know he was going to do everything "the hard way". Some kids are just like that. Belle was feeding him ego rope to hang himself with while Mary tried her hardest to keep his feet on the ground. Ha. I like that!! Nicely said. But I think that's because she knew her place. She knew Belle was something Mary needed to tackle. It wasn't for her to do. That screencap that either you or Molo posted a while back bears this out... she says something to Belle like "Don't think you belong here just because Mary hasn't put you in your place" or something like that... I think Ma knows she has passed the "crown" to the new lady of the house(Mary) now that Jabez has taken his father's place as man of the family. I think this is a common mindset that a lot of folks had back in those days... it was a way of life that kept the family farm in the family. I don't think everyone was blaming Mr. Scratch for ALL their problems. And you would be right.. I probably did not word my post as well as I could have... I am only saying that it was a common "attitude" and perhaps even a bit of a superstitious mindset that folks had in that day and age... "The old devil would get you" if you didn't stay on you toes because he was always around stirring up trouble and he was always listening... (even Jabez says... "nobody heard that"... because he was afraid somebody did. Just like the old saying... "Speak of the devil") And don't misunderstand me now when I say folks were "superstitious" about the devil as if I don't think he exists.... because he IS out there (as far as I am concerned) if you believe the scriptures... Just not in the way he is depicted in this story. I actually view Mr. Scratch to be man's conscience in The Devil and Daniel Webster Boy you really confused me with that until I read your reply to April.. I still don't know if I exactly agree with what you said.... I might want to say he is more of an ANTI-conscience. (the angel on the shoulder would be the conscience.. the devil on the other side is just trying to distract you from the "sting" of the angel's words). Even Scratch says in the trial that he takes no blame regarding how anyone feels if their conscience starts to hurt.... ; The last thing he wants Jabez or any of his other customers to do is think about the "consequences" or feel guilty for what they are doing. It's bad for business... that is why he sent Belle in the first place.... to help Jabez "lose" whatever conscience he had. And she very nearly succeded. April is right... he IS a tempter... and I say he is also a liar and an accuser... He is a lot of things... but he doesn't want anyone to choose for themselves... so if the conscience starts to get in the way of things... he just tries to yell a little louder... or move things along a little quicker so that nobody has time to think... More than once either Scratch or Belle yell at Jabez to go faster... (like at the square dance, etc) it was a way of keeping him so distracted he did not have time to think... and because Jabez was weak.. it was a good tactic. But Webster was strong and he COULD resist the jabs and darts and even the "egging on" when he made up his mind to do it.... but he also could have just as easily given in.. (like when he "zonked" out from the rum) I think he knew from experience with all those past dealings that he had to stay on his toes. Thanks Grey Guy for all this good "munchable" conversation! I can't wait for Molo to pop in here and see what the two of you ramble on with... This has been a "Ramble" worth waiting for.... PS... fxreyman.... I don't mean to be selfish but... Don't worry... as soon as the Grey Guy's "contract" is up... we will push him on out the door your direction! ; Message was edited by: rohanaka

you and Mr Grimes remind me a little of Daniel Webster and....and I guess you know who is Daniel and who is the "roaring lion". Well.. I will let the 'jury' decide on that one! Ha. I'd take Stone over Stoddard ANY day of the year But then you would have to live in New Hampshire... a much COLDER climate than "Shinbone"... just something to think about. Ha. I think I'd rather have Ranse... at least when he was spouting off.. he was usaually saying something "eloquent" about law and what it means to be a "free citizen" etc... All Jabez seemed to ever want to say was "Hey everybody... look how "great" I am". I would have not made a good "Mary" I have too much "Ma" in me... I'd have to take him down a peg or two (or twenty) Ha. :-)

Hi there, Larry! Well whatever it takes! (Like the threat of a rope for some people Will Rogers is the new "Enforcer!" ha. Hope to be back later with comments. Woo Hoo!!

Hello there, Mr. Grey.... more or less just bringing "Belle' up... ha! Now that doesn't sound like me. You must be thinking of just Molo It sounds like BOTH of you... I really like how "Jabez Stone" (James Craig) is presented in the film. As a guy, I can relate to him very easily. He's frustrated and he wishes to do better. Does he wish to do better just for selfish reasons? I don't think so. When he gets the gold, he goes right to his wife with the "good" news. I really like how "Jabez Stone" (James Craig) is presented in the film. As a guy, I can relate to him very easily. He's frustrated and he wishes to do better. Does he wish to do better just for selfish reasons? I don't think so. When he gets the gold, he goes right to his wife with the "good" news. Well..... after looking at thing from a lot of different angles... I think he is a very selfish person... who also wants to care for his wife and family. And lest you think I am trying to have it both ways.. I think it IS possible to be both. After the "deal goes down", he DOES go right to his wife to show her the money... but it is a very "prideful" sort of "Look what *I* found... oh by the way..it's for us" sort of thing. This was how I took it anyway. You are right... he DID want to provide for them.. (that whole "guy thing") and he DID care about them... but the person he loved the most was himself... and he took more stock in how he was viewed by others than in doing the right things . His biggest issue was PRIDE. And that is where he is different from Miser Stevens, by the way... the Miser loved the MONEY. (he hid it and treasured it and more or less worshiped it just for what it WAS) but Jabez loved the things the money could do FOR him... because his biggest problem was PRIDE. I guess he was lucky... Miser Steven ended up wearing a label ("Miser") that showed everyone what his biggest "sin" was... Jabez didn't have to go around being called "Arrogant Chump Stone" (ha) But at that same time... that's exaclty who and what he was. And eventually, EVERYONE knew it, because he loved himself so much he couldn't keep it a secret anymore. you'd be hard-pressed to find a wife more faithful as Mary (Anne Shirley). Believeable? That's a tough one for me. How many wives would accept their husband living in a mansion with his mistress? NONE.... that would "accept it" but I CAN see a situation where a wife would still LOVE her husband and continue to choose to be his wife... I think she made the choice to stay because she made a promise to love him and that meant something to her. But also because she really DID love him. And she loved him more than she loved herself... which meant she was a perfect "antithesis" to his PRIDE... she was way at the opposite end of the spectrum in humility. She really understood that money did not by happiness and just had too hard a time putting much emphasis on material wealth... and she saw all the change it brought on her husband (not for the better) And since she loved HIM.... the money held no luster for her. Although I think she DID try to be happy about being "rich" for a while... mostly because she saw the joy it brought to her husband. But I think she started to see the money as being at the root of the bad changes in his life and his personality... and she could not love it because it was a threat to her husband (in her mind) and in their life as a family. There is another movie I saw years ago ( a modern film) called A Simple Plan... it is a VERY gruesome film and was really hard to watch... yet parts of it really made me think about how money changes everything. And the scene where Jabez lays that gold in Mary's lap always reminds me of this other film. Because the husband in A Simple Plan (though he tries to stay out of it) ends up coming into the possession of a LARGE sum of "ill gotten money" more or less through no fault of his own.. And just to see what his wife might think... he poses a "hypothetical" sort of question to her like... "What would you do if you found a big stash of cash...blah blah blah???" And that wife gives her husband this big speech about how it would be the right thing to turn the money in and that it would be wrong to keep it, etc... and THEN... he comes in and unloads this HUGE bag of money in front of her.. And of course, her tune really starts to change after that and she begins to rationalize things, and eventually becomes as much of the "plan" to keep the cash as he does. And it ends up ruining both their lives. But this doesn't happen to Mary in TDADW because Mary was just so "pure". And I think the author wrote her that way on purpose... to be a contrast to his "impure" nature. At one point she says something like "He mocks the church bells that rang at our own wedding" as she sees how he has turned his back on EVERYTHING sacred for the love himself and the money. And this is what keeps "all that money can buy" at arms length for her. And by doing this, she more or less became a disappointment to him because she did NOT reflect the things he thought made him "great". And you are right in saying.... She was the "mirror" for him to look into And he did NOT like looking that mirror in the face eventually. He could not take the comparison. And THAT is why Belle ended up having so much sway. Because she not only "reflected" his greatness... she "pumped up the volume" on it. I also loved that "Ma Stone" (Jane Darwell) let Jabez choose his own path. She said what needed to be said and then it was up to him to figure it out for himself. Sometimes, all we can do is speak the truth and it's up to others to figure out what's going on. Will they? There's some faith involved with that. As much as it fits her character, I was a little surprised at Ma's reaction to the money... it is VERY underplayed. (or maybe I should say over played) She acted about as excited by that gold as if he'd found a toadstool or something. NO big deal.. But even though she clearly was an "unworldly" sort and did not put much stock in "things"... I thought that was a bit TOO much of an understated reaction. ( only a small criticism, perhaps) But having said that, I think it could also be taken as a sign that she KNEW he'd done SOMETHING (or was doing something) wrong to get this money... (Yes kids... we mothers ALWAYS know... Ha) and she was "playing it close to the vest" and giving him a chance to tell the truth. And then of course when he did not come clean... and when she started to see that things were even worse off than she thought... due to the "spiritual" effect this was having on the whole family... I believe she played her hand the best way she could have... it goes back to what I said about letting him go his way w/out altering HER course. You can't make someone do the right thing just because you want them to in a situation like that... because the issue was a "heart" one... and it was his ATTITUDE that really was the problem... It was not a battle she was going to win if she tried to "boss him" into it. I think she did what most parents (with her mindset) would do in her situation. She was there for him... offered him advice when he REALLY asked for it.. but more or less LED him by her example. It was the only thing she could do for him other than pray. (and believe me, as a parent... that is a HARD place to be) I'd love to hear your take on why it's based WAY more on folklore than faith. Ok.. and now the sermon begins... Ha.. just kidding. Let me see how to say this... I think that the devil in this story is not really a "character" in this film as much as he is a "characterization" of that old wily guy who is so busy running hither and yon stirring up trouble... and drumming up business. All he was missing was the horns, tail and pitchfork. And in early American folklore, blaming old Scratch for the woes of the world was a common way for folks to deal with their troubles... the cow got sick and the milk went bad... blame Old Scratch. A hail storm comes and ruins your crop.. Old Scratch must have done it. Drop a bag of seed in a big puddle of mud... Scratch probably undid the seams. It's easy to look for a "target" to blame... But in these sorts of old stories and fables, the devil gets a lot more "credit" (or "blame" if you like) than he deserves for all the rotten things that happen in the world... He can be seen in a lot of the old superstitions of the day. And I think he gets used as a convenient excuse for much of the "troubles" of the world. And also, there are a lot of old tales that involve folks "selling their soul" to get what they want. Rather than trust in God, they go to The Devil to "speed things along" and get them their heart's desire... even if it is not tangible "worldly goods". And because these old stories have been around a while, it would be easy to see how the "have nots" of the world could look at a person of wealth and resent them enough to blame the devil for their success... Because a lot of times.... money (or the lack of it) can bring out the worst in people. So I could see some dirt poor farmer toiling away in the hot sun and thinking about that rich old guy in the mansion on the hill down the road and saying.. "he probably sold his soul to the devil to get all that." Because it is easier to say that than to think... this is just the way both our lives turned out (for whatever reason) And by the way, it doesn't take a bloody signature on the dotted line for someone to "sell their soul" to devil... all it takes is someone being willing to put the things of this world and the love of self over top of everything and everyone else. But having said that... I think where comparisons CAN be made to the Biblical view of the devil and his real "job" or "place" in the world is concerned... is in the way Scratch more or less appeals to the baser instincts of those who are weak enough to listen to him. And also the way he is able to hold sway over those who are willing to follow after his suggestions. (remember how he tells Webster about how he "was there" during some of the worst parts of American history) And while again, lot of times old stories like this one give way too much credit (or place way too much blame) on the devil, depending on what one believes or does not believe about the human spirit and the ways of the world... a case CAN be made for his influence in the lives of mankind throughout history. But that is not to say he is the REASON for those human failings. Folks try to blame him all the time in order to get out of a consequence or make excuse for a bad decision...(as in "the devil made me do it") . But the devil (at least from the best of my understanding) can't "make us" do anything... He CAN however distract us, discourage us, and lead those who willingly follow after him... either by willful ignorance or by outright choice. So believe it or not... that is my short answer to your "inquiry" ha. :-) (I could go on... but think that would be a discussion better left for another venue, and will leave it at that for now) PS April.... Jabez' actions all seemed self-serving. And Jabez, fairly quickly, came to act like he thought his wife wasn't good enough for him, instead of the other way around. And he's not terribly bright, nor can he seem to focus on more than one thing at a time. He's in many ways more childish than Little Daniel, ha! That is essentially how I see him. YOU did a better job of summing him all up in one paragraph than I did in this whole entire mess of a ramble. Ha! But come on you two... compaing him to RANSOM STODDARD!! Legendary hero of such a great western tale of good and evil... Oh... I just don't know if I can take it! Ha.(Ok... we all know who the real hero was!! ) ha. But at least he (Stoddard) wasn't as big a blowhard as Jabez... surely you go too far!! . And poor Stoddard wanted little to do with all that fame and notorioty... until the whole issue of the "greater good" spurred him on... But I guess he DID end up buying in to the 'persona" of greatness that was more or less "thrust on him" in the end, though... so maybe there could be a bit of a similarity if we stretched it all out. :-) Poor Ranse... wait a minute... POOR HALLIE! :-) Message was edited by: rohanaka

Wow... Miss G!! I should have had you call in old Will Rogers a lot sooner!!! :-) Thanks for the ramble there, Grey Guy.. You always manage to bring a lot to the table... when you FINALLY manage to show up that is!! I look forward to hearing more from you when you get around to chatting with Molo too! The hour is late (for an old worn out woman like me) and you have given me some things to "munch on" here before I can answer you back... so I will have to chat with you later.. But will just say for now... WOO HOO! :-) And also... thanks for mentioning this: William Dieterle, a German, was also making a statement against Hitler. That is an interesting point and also I like your comments about the "german" influence in the music and such. Nice way to add a bit of extra insight here. I'd love to hear your take on why it's based WAYmore on folklore than faith. Hmmmmmmm.... NOW you may be asking for an earful. I will save the "sermon" for another time... but hope to at least be able to give you some thoughts on that tomorrow. Thanks again for the feedback and for the rambling... I will chat with you and others later!! Sleep well... And PS: don't let the hail storm spoil all your crops!! :-) maybe I can have someone send me to him. Oh me, oh my.... maybe I DO need to write that sermon... :-)

CAROLINA!!! That was some fancy ropin', little lady! We need to call ole Will and put him on the payroll!. He puts this Peacemaker to shame for sure... Although... I DID pay really close attention to several of his moves... I think if we practice we might be able to do that 2nd trick.. (where he gets the guy sitting down....right around the neck!) A "forward flat and a catch" ! If not that one... the three rope catch he did near the end of that clip might be a good choice too! Ha. :-)

He's a real swinger Not yet... but the night is still young... and the rope is almost frozen.... Ha.

As much as I love Simone Simon, she really made me despise her character, "Belle". I guess that proves she did a great job! She was WAY too good at being bad!!!! Jump on in little lady... I bet you have some good insight once you "rejog" your memory.

Kathy has the knack of screencaps NEVER!! Ha. I have to come clean and confess... that one was a borrowed "google" :-) But SOMEDAY I may be up to speed enough to post my own.... However... there may be a delay now... because my TEACHER will be unavailable to assist me if I should get a case of "technophobia"... I have a feeling he is likely to be "hanging out" somewhere else for a while.... PS... Here are a few ropes... I will give you first pick... There's plenty more where those came from.

HA... April.... I am on my way to get a rope this very minute. PS... Jabez... I mean GREY GUY.... It IS the eternal right...blah blah blah.... BUT... good luck trying to get that date carved back out of THAT tree. HA!

Even old Scratch has a better track record of showing up on time. Ha. PS... Mr. Grey.. NO fair trying to weasle out of a bargain...

FIVE (count em) FIVE days ago Frank Grimes wrote...... Hopefully, I will reply to your brilliant post on The Devil and Daniel Webster later tonight, Molo. Consarn it! (HEY MOLO.... what do you think??? Do you want me to mosey on over to the "OxBow" and bring back my frozen ROPE????)

Hi Mark, and thank you for the tip. My "step" daughter-in-law collects Wizard of Oz memorabilia and books as does another friend of mine as well.. I will check with them both to see if they might already have this one (so I can borrow it) Ha. :-) And if not... maybe between the three of us we can find a copy. Thanks again.

Michael Rennie plays Lana's husband as though he were a mummy. And he kind of LOOKS like one too. Rains of Ranchipur meets The Mummy... It's two.. two... two movies in one! Ha. I think from everything you've said... I better stick w/ the one from '39. Ha. :-)

Hiya Barb... I have never seen the "Lana" version... but I had never even heard of the "Myrna" version unitl just a few days before it aired. Ha. severe boredom; that or stomach flu. HA. They both can often seem to look like the other in the right (or wrong) circumstance. :-)

Hello Grey Guy... And I already posted my photo a couple days ago Yes... but that was taken years ago back in your EARLY career. Eventually you outgrew your swamp (or was it a "lagoon"??) and had to move to Japan... Where you became a beloved star of NUMEROUS sci-fi films... and also... an action figure. (my brothers used to have one of your figurines way back in the 70's... but it's head kept popping off) (PS...This is a scene from one of your most epic "monster" battles ever...)

if you like chocolate that much, ill make you all you want Hello my future personal chef!! Ha. I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a "Chocolate Cheesecake" today!! (Just borrowing a line from "Wimpy", there... I loved the old Popeye cartoons... but I think I am likely more "sea hag" than Wimpy.... in truth.. sometimes I am both HA!) Hope your afternoon has been fine and fabulous, young'un!

Hello Kyle... thanks for the BEAUTIFUL "Lost Horizons" poster.. very "Shangri-La-ish" :-)

Hiya Molo!! Thanks for the feedback, my friend. I appreciate the way you pulled some of the screencaps from the scenes back into the conversation too. One of the things I like in this film (almost as much as the story and the characters) is the way that it LOOKS. I think others have mentioned it too, but it really is filled with some beautiful imagery. I have little understanding of the whole "filmmaking" process... but to my mind it was very well photographed. Its a pity the issues with sound quality detract from that sometime... I guess that happens in certain older films. But it really does not detract enough to dampen my enthusiasm much. It really is an enjoyable film. She is like a siren luring Jabez to the rocks. She is bewitching actually. That is a perfect way to describe her. I think her job as a "destroyer of conscience" was very interesting. And you are right... once Jabez finds what little of his is left... she and Mr. Scratch both get REALLY worried about it. It is the only thing that ever stands in their way in all their shady dealings.. Can't have a little old thing like a "conscience" muddying up their works. It's bad for business. I always thought that Webster had ongoing dealings with Mr. Scratch. I think Mr. Scratch sees him as a prize catch. Since the story is told in the way of folklore, I felt Webster knew Mr. Scratch better than Jabez did, and that he was fully aware of who he was dealing with. I think you are right. I imagine Webster was very familiar with old Scratch's tactics too as he was a prime target. If Scratch could not influence him directly... he used the folks around him and the minds and hearts of the voters he was able to sway to do the job for him instead. Scratch had as much interest in trying to influence a "big fish" like Webster (who held sway over many) as he did every other little "small fry" he could find as well. That way he could manage affairs from both ends and all points in between. It is a good tactic in "warfare". And old Scratch was a wily guy... he knew just the right things to say to almost EVERYBODY (I say again...almost... because a few did manage to resist him) But he was very good at his job. Not to use too much of a comparison from scripture with this (because I agree with you and maintain that this is VERY much a folktale) but the devil is described as a roaring lion roaming around seeking whom he may devour... I am sure sometimes that noise can be heard for miles when it is loud enough.. but sometimes he roars with a "purr". The scene where he is whispering in Webster's ear while he is writing was very well done. Webster stands up to him and tells him in no uncertain terms to BE QUIET... and the old devil took notice and left. There is a bit of "biblical" imagery in this as well, because the scriptures do say to resist the devil and he will flee. And I got to thinking about an old folktale I once heard a pastor tell about Martin Luther waking up one night and finding the devil in his house making noise and rattling the pots and pans... When Martin Luther saw who it was making all that racket, he just looked at him and said..."Oh it's just you" and went back to bed. (Ha). The implication being... that the old "lion" is only scary if you willingly let yourself come under his influence by paying attention when he "roars" at you. The scene where Webster says "oh its you" always reminds me of that. I think you are right that he knew who Scratch was... but Webster wasn't going to willingly let himself be intimidated. (I wonder if S V Benet had heard that Martin Luther folktale too. Ha.) Sometimes you have to help someone who may not necessarily be worthy or deserving because it is the only way to help those in that person's life who are That is very nicely said and I agree... this is Webster's motivation in helping Jabez. But I think you are also right that once Jabez really sees things for how they are and pleads for Webster to help his family... then Ole Dan'l sees him as a guy worth helping and his focus on everything widens enough to want to help Jabez as well. PS...Thanks again for the great use of screencaps, young'un. You always manage to pick the perfect ones to bring out things we are talking about in the conversation. :-)

she discovers that love not only enriches the beloved and the one who loves, but reaches out to embrace all of life To quote Michaeleen Flynn: " A BEAUTIFUL sentiment!!!" Barb... this is the second time in two days I find myself saying this in response to one of your posts... VERY well said. (wish I'd have thought of it! Ha.) PS... Monsieur Laffite, A very nice analysis on all these interesting characters... How would you like to play cards with this gal? My gosh, my golly!! That was my one of my favorite scenes in this film. Ha. She was so in tune with each and every person at that party and nothing escaped her notice.... even when she was keeping her perfect "poker face" in check. :-)

I am lobbying the FDA to make chocolate one of the major food groups. It will validate my choice of food and make children happy all over the country. Chris... if you need another signature for a petition or anything... let me know.

That is wonderful news to hear... best wishes and blessings to you for continued progress and good health!

What a keen eye you have there, Mr. Grey.

Re: Moe... Tastes like southern comforter Is that some sort of blanket statement?? HA.

Oh my golly... you guys really got pounded! But it sure is pretty to look at! (I LOVE the one w/ the cardinal) Hope you stay safe out there, young'un. Bundle up and drink plenty of cocoa!!! (extra marshmallows!) Ha. I am calling it a day too!! I now leave you men to chat about Gloria all you like now... I am sure THAT will work as well as cocoa for you! :-) PS... thanks for the samosas!!! The next batch are on me!!! Here's a little late night snack for you in return... You won't have to share w/ the Grey Guy.... he only eats sawdust.... ha. Message was edited by: rohanaka