rohanaka

I like your ending better. It strengthens the theme of friendship between Leo and Ulrich while at the same time making the death of Felicitas a little more palatable story-wise (rather than merely seem expedient or tacked on). Of course they would have to change the name of the movie, ha...since Leo resists the flesh and the devil, so to speak ... Ro, call Hollywood, I think they can use you HA! Mr Pirate Dude.. if you only knew. I probably could come up with a list of a dozen or more titles (just sitting here) of movies I would change that way.. for the exact same reason. ha. (Hollywood would BOOT me out, for altering so many time-honored, well-loved classics, ha) What can I say.. I guess Mr. Grey (Frank Grimes) didn't label me Mrs. "Black and White" for nothing. ha But all kidding aside.. I really DO think it strengthens a story when the characters are able to resist the sorts of temptations like Leo only TRIED to do. It gives them a much deeper "layer" than most folks realize. Some would look at a story and say.."oh it's too BORING if everyone just went about making GOOD choices" ha. But sometimes the struggles they have to endure to MAKE the right choice (and keep making it) to me would be a much more interesting and fascinating way to build a character. I know.. I know.. I am likely just too old fashioned for my own good. But hey.. somebody has to be the stick in the mud. Guess it's going to be me.

Nice to see YOU too, Mr. Movieman.You're always a welcome sight around here. And PS: Chat it on UP, sir. Would love to hear about your latest Western movie-watching escapades.

HA!! That's right! No Cleggs allowed!! (Lucky for me, I hired on THESE three guys to send them all packing)

i am glad it returned from it's trip to the "twilight zone". Ha, me too, little darlin'. And just think.. we didn't even have to go through any of those "standard" wagon trail adventures to get to our destination.. ha. It was virtually a "peril" free journey.. ha Not even a single "discouraging word" to be heard. ha. No wild animals.. no drought or lack of food.. no Indians on the warpath. Not even a single wagon rut. ha. Golly.. Do these TCM message board gurus know how to stage a wagon train trip or WHAT?? ha.

And.... We're back! ha. (boy, that was a fast trip.. that Duke sure is a good scout!)

Hmmmmmmm..... I just stopped by to say how much I enjoyed getting to see The Big Trail again last night (it had been a while since I last saw it and I got the chance to remember all the reasons I really do enjoy it so much!) But imagine my surprise when I went to click on this thread and there was a message that said, this thread has been moved. It still says "Genre Forums" and "Westerns" on the labels at the top. Golly.. I wonder where we ARE right now.. ha. Lost in the internet message board wilderness??? Wandering about aimlessly.. looking for our new home???? ha. Hey.. Maybe I better send out a scout to blaze the trail for us.

OH you are absolutely right. ha. (I have had these sorts of conversations with Frank Grimes on many occasions, ha) I don't mean to imply that he was blameless. He does NOT get a "pass" from me. ha. (in fact.. I kept yelling and YELLING at him all the way through the movie, ha) But I guess I just found him so much more sympathetic because he really (REALLY) did not want to hurt his friend and he knew he was going to do that by trying to reclaim what he felt was his "lost love" He wasn't a totally innocent guy.. but his motives were not hurtful the way hers were. (even if she was being hurtful just by being so obtuse about how WRONG it was for her to think the way she did about things) There was only one conscience between the two of them. ha. and I don't think it was HERS. If I had my druthers.. I actually would have LOVED to see a movie where he did not give in and was consistent in refusing her.(I actually was envisioning a situation where he kept refusing her and she got mad.. and then figured out a way to trap him and make him look bad.. and THEN he and Ulrich fought. It would have been a totally different scenario.. but COULD have still played out with the same sort of ending. (but hey.. they don't pay ME the big bucks to write these things. ha.) I kept saying, RUN, Leo, RUN! ha. I kept HOPING he would hold out.. and she would be exposed somehow. But alas.. they NEVER listen, do they?? ha.

Laffite says: If he wasn't thinking of that, he certainly should have. It's certainly fits. Well again, ha. I am glad it wasn't ALL in my head. Am glad you saw it too. Even if it is not as much as I was thinking, there were certainly a few places in the story where you are right, it really does seem to fit. she might have been expected to try to hook him on the sly, away from Ulrich, as she in fact ended up doing. if having Leo around was in fact not in her best interests, it would be in keeping IMO with her quixotic and enigmatic nature to encourage it anyway, just as it was to allow her husband to find her and Leo together, etc...Oh heck, I hope I'm making sense Yes.. you are. And I think there is something to what you are saying. But I also think what it really boils down to is, I think she totally underestimated Leo's integrity. That MAY have been why she even married Ulrich too, if I think about it long enough, ha. She really under-appreciated the fact that he was the sort of man who cared about his promises and so she likely figured he was gone and he wasn't coming back.. so moving on to the next best thing with money just made sense to her. AND I also think she did not realize he was the sort of man who would NEVER want to sell out the love he has for his friend.. even for her, so she did everything she could think of to convince him to come around her (including the use of his love from Ulrich) I think she never expected him to have that sort of backbone. I think she viewed him much more cheaply than he actually was.. and that is why she had to work so hard to get him to finally agree to even be around her. (let alone be WITH her) And even when he DOES finally break and give in to her.. he wants to go away.. not sneak under Ulrich's nose.. he loves Ulirich too much to deceive him that way. And he loves HER too much to ignore her any more.. so in his mind, the kindest thing to do for everyone's sake was to leave and start over. Wow, what a catch! Or perhaps they simply wanted to exhibit of some realism, showing us those marks. Chilling I don't think it was something they left in for "realism" but I just think it was a mark on her skin. I went online and tried to find an image of that part of the movie (or a youtube) but couldn't find it because I wanted to be sure I am remembering it right.. but basically.. ha.. as much as I hate to confess it.. my FIRST thought is that it was.. um.. something you MIGHT see on the neck of the average jr. high young teen after his first date.. ha. But then I remembered what she had just gone through and I thought.. WOW.. I wonder if he really had a tight enough hold on her that he might have actually left a mark when they were filming. And if that IS the case.. you are right. Chilling would be the word for it. (ha.. and if it really was only just what my ORIGINAL thought was at first.. well, I guess we should blame the makeup guys for not doing a better job of covering that up for her! ha!!!) Not very realistic, but perfect for a movie like this. I wanted to see it end with them discovering her scarf.. with Hersha running out just behind her (and them at least BEGINNING to put all the pieces together about what had just happened, instead of never even acknowledging what just took place while they were about to kill each other. (Ha.. poor girl.. there they are all buddy-buddy again.. and she is just sinking down to the murky bottom with one big final "glub" ha... Oh well.. they didn't ask ME how to end it now did they? Still.. It all worked, somehow. It was a very unexpected but effective way to finish it off. I'm so glad you will be following up on Greta Well, it's probably going to take me some time because I checked at BOTH of the libraries near me and did not come up with much. The one library I go to the most often doesn't have ANY Garbo movies.. and the OTHER library has a handful. but none are among the ones that you two listed a few days ago for me. I will have to keep looking (or keep watch for TCM to show them) and will hope to get a chance to catch a few sometime.

Hello there, Laffite. I am glad to hear you saw some of that too. (ha.. makes me feel better that I might not have made too much of it.) The scene where they are in her apartment.. just before the husband comes home.. where he is lying on her lap with the smoke just spiraling up from the two of them together really just got my attention and that is where I first started thinking about it.. and then every so often, there it would be again.. ha. A little puff of smoke here.. a misty fog there.. it just showed up now and then, but usually at a time when he was either with her.. or thinking of her, etc. Not sure if the director really intended that.. ha.. but that was what I kept thinking all the same. She sort of lets it "out" that the reason she married Ulrich was because Leo was gone.. and she needed someone. (either to provide for her.. to love her.. to just be with her.. I don't know which) She clearly had no concept of faithfulness to anyone but herself. But still.. I DO think she was as "in love" with Leo as she was capable to be. She just loved herself WAY more. (at least that is how I saw her) And that is why I think she kept inviting Leo to come by to visit.. not so much for Ulrich's sake (as she told him) but more to try and keep Leo "on the hook" with her. So that is where I started to see some "flaws" in her facade. If he was spending time with Ulrich.. he would be with her.. and maybe SOME time.. they would be able to be alone together.. if he kept coming by to see Ulrich.. or if she kept coming by to see him (on behalf of Ulrich) and that was the way she could (and did) eventually wear him down. His love for his friend was the trap she used to "snare" him. That to me was one of her more "obvious" schemes. But I don't think she was always that easy to read.. Sometimes it could be hard to tell. I don't know if she was so malicious as to "plot" against her husband in the beginning.. That one was more difficult to tell. She certainly did not try to HIDE the fact that she had a gentleman caller in her apartment. (even going with him over to the wide open window, etc) Did she want to provoke an incident.. or was she really just that unable to feel guilt for what she was doing (to not mind being open about it) She was that hard to get a fix on sometimes. But you are right.. her mercenary side DOES eventually come through in the end (with the bracelet) I think she may even have MEANT it when Leo asked her could she give up everything to come with him when they were planning to leave. She told him yes.. and I think she really WOULD have been alright (as long as it was exciting and they had money) but when she saw the bracelet.. she realized the life on the run with Leo would NOT give her the creature comforts she would have staying with Ulrich (and cheating on him behind his back, with Leo). Oh what a mess. And with regard to the "strangulation" scene.. I agree that was OVER the top and very well done. (in fact.. did you notice later on she is lying on the bed talking to Hertha.. I could even see marks on her neck and I wondered if maybe they were an accidental result of the whole process of filming that.. my GOODNESS me, would that be hard to take. ha. I am not sure what I felt about her drowning the way she did. It was such a shock to see that, and so unexpected.. especially since she was coming to put a stop to the trouble she had caused. (because even if she was a "bad woman" she was now a repentant one, at least) But I agree.. they were not going to be able to really LIVE with the situation if she were still Ulrich's wife.. they could never go back and 'start over".. even if she stayed with Ulrich and Leo gave her up (and she gave up Leo) Way too much water flowing under that bridge. ha. (so I guess the writer decided to let some of it flow over HER too, ha.. just to wrap things up so the two friends could start over together. Very unusual way to but a "bow" on things, ha.. but for whatever reason it worked for me.

Miss Applegate.. you really got some good shots of all the folks "hanging out" there at the festival. So many smiling faces. And I never ceased to be amazed at how you are able to get a chance to meet so many of the people who are a part of the festival too.. especially the celebrities! Way cool.

Ms Cutter.. thanks for posting all the play-by-play and pictures. What a fun read. (and thanks for posting the clips of all those older TCM promos too.. I remember a few of them.. ha.. loved the Cosby one, especially.) So glad you and so many others had such a great time. I think TCM must really put on quite the show (or several of them all rolled into one, as it were) based on what you and so many others have had to say about it. Thanks for taking the time out to put it all on here for the rest of us to share too.

Miss G.. I hope you will revisit sometime if only so you can tell me whether or not I was reading too much into that whole "mist and smoke" thing. ha. Sometimes I see things and it may or may not be what he director intended.. but that is how it comes out when I roll it around in my head a while (in and among all those rocks, ha) I am going to the library later this week and plan to see what I can find for some of her other films.. will hope to be able to check out some of the titles you and Laffite mentioned for me.

Ha.. Bronxie, those omelettes Julia was making actually gave me HOPE I see so many other cooking shows where all the omelettes are so "pretty" and hers were more "rustic' looking. ha. I liked how she was even using her hands to finish shaping them once they were on the plate. Mine always come out more like "glob-lettes" ha. (in fact that is what we call them here, instead of omelettes. ha) They TASTE good.. they just don't look so "pretty" So now after seeing hers, it made me think i MIGHT be able to achieve at least closer to HER style rather than keep trying those other "fancier" looking ones. Meanwhile.. oh me.. that John Wayne platter DID look like it was too much, ha. There were several others too that sounded like they'd be more than what I could handle. We should go together and split an order. We could go "halve-sies" and then it might be just about right. PS: Miss G.. ha. Lovely shot of Henry Fonda's "hirsuteness" going on.. here is one that is not QUITE as hairy.. but getting there. Sort of his "nearly hirsute" era, perhaps. (at least the eyebrows were coming in pretty well) ha. .

Hello there Miss B.. sorry to hear about your continued computer woes. Will hope you can get it all figured out soon. And hey.. I took a look at the Flashback Diner's website, ha. It looks like a fun place. I think I will wait here for Julia to finish my omelet, and in the meantime, I'll order up a Jim Brown with potato salad to go! ha.

Bronxie!!! You've MOVED! ha. (and I didn't even see a moving van) Hope you and Mom enjoy our new home here in Films and Filmmakers! Hey.. this calls for a housewarming gift. Coffee cake for everybody!

HELLO, Monsieur Pirate, Not to rain on your parade, Ro, you make it sound so much better than I remembered. After watching the first two, Flesh seemed somewhat stilted to me, not in the acting but in the directing. Ha.. no worries, it's all sunny skies here.. (not even a sprinkle) I know that movies are among the most subjective mediums around.. so I can see why you might have a different take on it. There may even be something to what you are saying with regard to the direction, but to be honest, I have not seen (or even heard of) the other two films, so have no comparison for that. I think where this film really "got" me was the affection and faithfulness between the two friends. It was really just so deep and it resonated so well for me. The way Leo ABSOLUTELY had nothing but the purest motive toward his friend, coupled with the fact that Ulrich was clueless up until the very end as to what the whole issue between them was really all about (he never EVER would have put his friend in such a situation) all spoke so well for what they really felt for one another. And so all that made it so much more poignant to me to see how everything played out as Felicitas began to really turn on the heat and work her way deeper and deeper into not just Leo's heart, but his mind. She finally broke him.. but even then he did not want to dishonor his friend by "sneaking" behind his back. It was all about the love he had for Ulirich more than it was the love he had for her. A very unusual spin on the "boy meets girl, girl breaks up a friendship with the boy's best bud" kinda story. PS Miss G: Ro, those words just about summed up the silent phase of Garbo's career. She took "femme fatale" to its zenith. I like Wild Orchids and The Single Standard, too. I also think she was her most beautiful in TSS. Well I have to confess that I have never really sought out Ms Garbo's films. (no real huge reason.. just not a big Garbo kinda gal, ha.. or so I thought) I typically am not a big "femme fatale" kinda gal, I guess. But now I may have to delve into some of these films you and the Pirate Dude are mentioning to me, because I may have been missing out, ha. Because WOWSA.. she was really something. You could really see the whole "thing" that she had in the way she sort of took over Leo's mind and heart. That opening moment when they first meet and they end up going out to the garden.. as he strikes the match to light the cigarette, I thought the way the light was used to show her face was just so striking. And then later when she is in front of the fire and Leo tries to stay back and away from her.. but eventually he is drawn to her "light"or "heat" as it were.. sort of like a poor little moth, ha. You know he is going to burn up. I kept yelling, "RUN, Leo, RUN!" but of course.. he didn't listen. AGHHH. (they NEVER listen) There were also several places were "smoke" and "mist" were used. And I confess I could be just reading too much into it, but it was almost like it was emanating from HER.. ha. (or from the fact that Leo was just being consumed by her.. the first time I noticed it was when they are lounging in her apartment and the cigarette smoke is spiraling up above them. Very creative. And then when that all plays out.. I just kept wondering, did she plot and scheme for him to provoke a duel with her first husband? Was she really that manipulative? Or did she just really just not think about the consequences of just living in the moment with Leo? Wowsa.. she really was "that good' it was hard to tell sometimes. Even when he goes to visit her on the island (FRIENDSHIP Island, of all places) the mist is covering everything.. like she was trying to cloud HIS mind and his judgement. Again.. I could be reading too much into it.. or even reading it incorrectly, but that is how I saw it, anyway. Whatever it was.. I just couldn't help thinking how she was some kinda operator, wasn't she?. . MAJOR SPOILER ALERT: I loved the transition for her at the end of it all though (and yes.. it is because I AM such a sucker for a good repentance angle in a story) but I have to confess, I never saw it coming. When Hertha started praying.. I figured she would get so upset she would run out of the room.. but I did NOT see her reacting to the prayer in any sort of repentant way. I really liked how that all ended up. I figured things would end up with one (or both) of the men getting killed. I did NOT expect her to be taken out.. and especially in the way that she was.. running to stop them both. Very unexpected indeed.

Oh my goodness ME. I just watched Flesh and the Devil. Wowsa, what a story. Who knew?? (Ok., probably most of YOU did.. ha. but I had only heard of this movie and had no idea what it was even about. until watching it tonight, ha) And I have to say, the friendship angle between the two "blood brothers" was really just so emotional. I was literally on the edge of my seat to see how that all played out. And may I just add.. I only THOUGHT I knew what the words "Femme Fatale meant until seeing Ms. Garbo just now. (wow.. all others pale in comparison) Put that all together with the "repentance" angle there at the end, and (did I mention my goodnes ME??) I will just say have to say again.. wowsa. What a story.

Great pictures, Miss Applegate!! Thanks so much for posting these. It looks like you folks had a grand time!! Can't wait to hear more about it all.

#421 Drat! What was I THINKING?? They'd never have had any pictures of me if it weren't for that dadgum SELFIE I posted on my Facebook.

Have a great time Miss Applegate! (and then come back here and tell us all about it... It's the next best thing to getting to see it for myself!) Enjoy!

Miss G.. I started watching just before she started dancing with my beloved C. Aubrey. ha. (I had no idea what the movie even WAS when I first happened upon it. I just always stop and watch ANYTHING whenever I see him in anything, ha) But then when I saw it was Vivien and I clearly had missed a big portion of the story, I looked it up. And then I ALMOST turned it (because when I saw the schedule, I knew it was almost over) But I was just so doggone curious after remembering some of the things you had said about it, I had to keep watching. (And ps, Patful..yes.. tragic was the right word. sniff, sob, sniff..)

Ha, I am sure he would approve. I actually saved several of the images he posted on that Memorial Day thread.. just because they were so eye-poppin' awesome, ha. (though I don't believe I saved any "gam" images) ha. I mostly saved all the ones showing the different branches of the military and a few other assorted favorites.. but alas, nearly all of them are locked up on my PC (that is holding all my stored stuff hostage until I can figure out what is wrong with it, but that is another sad story for another day, bah!) I do have a couple of them stored on my laptop.. one Air Force one even, I think.. but no airplanes. Will hope they can get the archived stuff up and running soon. (before Memorial Day.. wouldn't that be great?) I would love to peruse through all that treasure trove of stuff he has in there, just for the sake of enjoying it all over again.

hahahahaha, Patful, I had help, but yes, I DID finally get it figured out. (it appears to have been a browser issue, who knew? ha) . Meanwhile.. re: the avatar.. that is NOT an airplane.

I SHOULD have paid more attention to the schedule to know that it was on, but I' ve just had too much "stuff" going on lately, alas. But I remember you talking about this one some time ago so I was sort of prepared for that ending.. yeah.. sort of.. maybe.. a LITTLE, ha. But wowsa.. still, what a harsh sort of way to wrap it all up. I will keep an eye out for it and try to catch it all the way through sometime. (ha.. maybe by then I'll have a laid in a good supply of tissues so I'll be good and ready)

Ha.. Miss B, it took me a day or two myself to figure a few things out, (and I am still catching up on some of it) Hey.. Maybe we need the big guy to come in and clear a path for us!