rohanaka
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Posts posted by rohanaka
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Oh... I will go out on a limb here and take a guess..
RE: Sgt. York.. you utterly hated it. (but I am very impressed that you watched it) :-)
(I think you MIGHT have liked Bend of the River.. at least somewhat)
(You Can't Take it With You.. hmmm... that one is a "maybe"... (I love that movie by the way.. so now I bet you will say you REALLY hated it, ha)
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Helloooo there Miss Goddess, darlin',
I'll give you 72 seconds no more
HA! That is about as long as any ice or snow would LAST in this heat, (ugh) upper 90's and low 100's with +115 heat indexes are starting to get me down..ha. OH for the lovely little gentle mid-autumn breeze... (I better quit all this whining, before I break in to a chorus of "The Autumn leaves.. pass by my window..." HA!)
Lol, I forget after the first few minutes that he started out as a daisy deliverer!
Yeah!! I mean.. you usually don't think of "florist" as a job where you have to know how to throw (or take) a punch.
Some time ago.. Mr. Movieman said
I had not seen Payne in a noir before but thought he was quite good. Handled himself well and was properly mysterious at times. You had to pay attention and I think it could have played a couple of ways right up to the end. A nice new film for me
At first I was not sure what sort of role he was going to play in the whole story. Poor guy.. he was just trying to earn a living.. just trying to keep himself out of any more trouble.. and then WHAMMO!!! He gets set up for something and has NO clue what is going on.. what a great start for his character (to really draw you in)
I was holding my breath to see if he was the kinda guy who just wanted to clear his name... or if he was out to settle the score.. hmm... I am thinking now it was a bit of both.
The Grey Guy says:
There's a seriousness to Payne. You really do get the feeling he's a man who's been pushed into a corner and he's gonna slug his way out. His physicality is the best I've seen.
You are right. (oh me.. don't let it get around that I ever said THAT, ha)
And "pushed in a corner and slugging his way out" is a great way to describe him. OH, and getting back to what Miss G mentioned about the "bruatl" part.. the worst "fight" scenes for me were when he was in jail.. I don't even remember (since it was over a week ago since I watched) if they even SHOW what those guards did to him... but you KNOW he is getting roughed up... just by the way he is walking.. and carrying himself. It was painful just to see him like that. I know NOTHING about him as an actor.. in fact.. I don't even know if I have ever seen him in any other movies... but wowsa.. he did seem to have a knack for playing "beat up" didn't he??
MsFavell says:
What I liked about Kansas City Confidential was the way all the character actors filled specific roles - Foster as the straight arrow detective, kicked off the force because of politics, Elam as the sweaty, nervous lead Payne must follow, Brand and Van Cleef as the Stan and Ollie criminal types.... and yet, the whole thing still played out in an exciting manner, with good performances by everyone. I am not sure if it was that I found the plot intriguing, or if I knew what was going to happen but didn't care
There really were a lot of "types" in this movie, weren't there. (you left out the "flaunting, teasing" opportunistic girl in the hotel.. ha. OH me.. was SHE ever a type...
Honestly.. the only one that was sort of a suprise (in terms of having a usual "type" of role in a movie like this was the daughter. But you are right.. it was still very exciting to watch it all play out. The whole "mystery' angle kept it from being so "predictable". I especially liked the part about them not being able to identify one another.. having to hang onto your own little corner of the card.. wondering WHO was WHO and knowing the ONLY thing you could count on was to just not trust ANYONE but yourself... I thought that added a nice twist.
And PS: ha.. wasn't Lee Van Cleef a PUP??????????? Oh my golly.. I didn't even recognize him at first. ha. And you have Elam pegged just right too, little missy... "sweaty and nervous" OH me..ha.. I might even add "oily" ICK!!!!! But I just love him (even if I love to hate him sometimes) He was just too good at playing guys like that wasn't he??
Miss G says: I really liked Grey's character in Kansas City Confidential. She starts out silly/flirtatious and turns smart and shrewd on a dime.
And the Grey Guys says: I like and liked Coleen Gray in Kansas City Confidential, although her character was lacking. Still, I loved her energy and her playful forwardness. She was full of life. I found her to be very inviting. I liked her emotions, especially her "hurt."
And Rohanaka adds;
I liked her a LOT. I thought she was all that you have described her and more. Miss G.. you are right.. she was "shrewd on a dime" The way she handled herself when she started to realize things were NOT all they seemed to be was terrific. And I liked the "unexpected" twist of her being the daughter of the very guy that Payne's character was trying to find.. unexpected and intriguing all at the same time.
Miss G says: And Preston Foster was grand, one of my favorite turns by him, here
And the Grey Guy responds: Oh he was sensational. I loved his performance. I liked his fishing get-up. Loved his character arc, too. Terrific.
And again Rohanaka chimes in:
He did a great job. At first I thought I had him all figured out. And then when his daughter showed up.. I was not sure WHAT to think of him. You could just SEE the conflict for Foster's charcter start to boil out of him the moment she arrieved.
NOW what was he going to do? He was NOT the man she thought he was.. too much water had been flowing under THAT bridge so there was no turning back..
But he was not entirely the man he was TRYING to be either. (at least not the way I thought he was) Talk about gut-wrenching... and it lent an air of sympathy for him and his circumstances that I would NEVER have likely had for him otherwise.
Miss G says:
This is great! I'll pull out my copy for a re-fresher!
Now it is my turn to say "yay" ha.. Hope you have some more to say on it all... it really was a fun movie.. hope others will chime in too!
Edited by: rohanaka on Jul 12, 2011 2:41 PM
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YO! Grey Dude...
Greetings from...
(Don't MESS with our flower delivery guys... or you are asking for TROUBLE!)
Edited by: rohanaka on Jul 11, 2011 6:22 PM
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OOOPS.. I guess he DOES scream in Oklahoma.. at least once.. ha.
(I think that was either right before... or right after he was singing.. ha)
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he didn't scream when he should have
Ugh.. I hated that movie..ha. (of course it MAY be because of the fact that I was only 19 when I saw it (in a college Film Literature class) and I was just too self-absorbed to think that deeply about his character and the story way back then when I saw it... ha.
OR.. it COULD have just been because of that painful scene you mentioned.. ICK!
(Oh.. and I don't think he screams in Oklahoma either, at least not that I can remember..ha. He is more of the "deep-voiced" threatening sort of Rod in that one.. ha.
He DID sing, though (sort of, ha) Oh.. and he also "treated the rats and the vermin like equals". (Ha! I love that line) :-)
The Daisies in the Dell... will give off a different smell.... because poor Judd is buried in the ground.
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Thanks for the compliment
Just calling them like I see 'em, little darlin'.
I really dislike City Girl as opposed to some of the others on my list. I always like the moment at the end when he tries to strangle her
Oh I don't think we are EVER supposed to LIKE her.. but OH me.. I do love the way she is portrayed. I like how sometimes she is only just a 'ghostly" image clutching at his heart and whispering in his ear.. OH my golly.. what a clear picture she is of temptation.. his inner most thoughts and deepest darkest desires, come to life on screen for all of us to see. very thought-provoking.
Oddly, Ro, thiswas one of the easiest lists for me to make. Usually I am pulling out my hair, but this one came very easily to me.
Does that say something rather bizarre about me? That I can call to mind a dozen favorite killers and why I actually identify and even like some of them?
No.. I think instead it says a lot about how you think about intriguing movies and really well thought out characters in general though. We are a lot alike in that we both take our stories and characters (the really interesting ones) very personally. I may not always identify (or even LIKE) some of the deeper, darker characters.. but OH me.. I am fascinated by them. They make me think.. They draw me in.. they make me want to try and figure out WHAT in the world it is that makes them tick.
Thanxx so much for the compliment Ro-Ro. Now you know the drill. If you're goint to compliment us...you have to throw your socks hat in the ring and tell us who are some of your favorite femmes fatal
OH Miss Maven... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! ha. Please don't make me..I feel another headache coming on..ha.
Besides.. you gals already have most of the ones I might have thought of on my own, anyway... I think will have to be a "coat-tail" rider on this one and just say "Yeah.. what SHE said" ha. (With the "she" being you.. and Jackie.. and oh.. MISS G too!) ;-) Yeah.. that's it! ha.
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need i really explain my choice?
OH my golly!!!! NO explanation needed whatever!!! (and may I just add... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha and.... HA!!!!!!!!
Call out the "stick blood hounds!!"
Lethal INDEED!!!!!!!!!!! -
HELLOOOOOO Miss G!!
You'll never guess what happened... I found these three guys still hanging out (in that back room you mentioned a couple of weeks ago)
They want to know if they are too late for the party.... (I think they want to sing you a song or something... )
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Bravo! Ms Favell.. and Miss Maven too!! Ladies.. you'd be knocking my socks off..ha.. if it weren't summer time and I wasn't already "sockless" ha.
I love all your choices.. both the ones I HAVE seen (because you both picked some doozies) and the ones I haven't (because now.. I really WANT to see them)
Some that stand out for me (from both of your lists, ladies):
Jackie.. love your choices of:
Margaret Livingston - The City Girl - Sunrise
Pure carnal sex, used as a weapon of destruction. It's not enough to take your rival's man, you must inspire him to kill her, too
That is beyond a shadow of a doubt THE best description I have ever read of her... ever. She was all of that and a little bit more, to be sure.
And also loved your choice of :
Annie Laurie Starr - Gun Crazy
She wants to be loved, but has high standards and a low threshold for stupid people
Ha! Patience really was NOT her strong suit, was it?
Norma Desmond - Sunset Boulevard
We all have a little Norma in us as we get older
EEEEEEEK, perish the thought! Ha. (but yeah, still, I can see how that could be!) ha.
And I REALLY love that you BOTH picked "Ellen" from LHTH.. OH my golly..
Miss Maven says:
She is as beautiful as a Venus Flytrap. Whereas other lethal ladies are pathological liars, Ellen is a pathological lover. And when she loves you, it is all encompassing. There is no room for any one else and it is fascinating to watch her tighten her net around Richard Harland (CORNEL WILDE) to the exclusion of EVERYONE else. Her Pyrrhic victory was dastardly and she never looked more beautiful
You have her pegged JUST right, little gal.. Good gravy what a living nightmare that Ellen was.. a human boa constrictor.. the more she loves you.. the tighter she squeezes until she has used up all the air (love) you might have had for her by all that squeezing. UGH!
Oh.. and ps.. Miss Maven.. honorable mention has GOT to go to your picks of Veda... and Kitty too.. OH, my goodness me. That rotten Veda is the poster child for how NOT to raise children.. and Kitty.. well..ha.. I love to say it (ever since I saw that movie..ha) *Kitty is TOAST* (at least by the end of the movie anyway, yee haw!)
Thank goodness BOTH those two gals got what was coming to them.. at long last.
Oh me.. oh my.
Edited by: rohanaka on Jul 7, 2011 10:36 PM
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Glad to hear you are finally bouncing back, Mr. Movieman.. (and ps.. if you are feeling back to normal.. that is definitely for the "better" sir.) It is NO fun fighting those "germ-ans".
Hopefully, I'll catch a wave
Surf's up!! Hang Frank Grimes (
) Ooops.. I mean Hang ten, Mr Movie Dude.. -
we are in big trouble, Ethel
Don't sweat it, Lucy... ha.. your secret's safe with ME!!
(As long as we don't try to steal John Wayne's footprints again... I think everything will be OK!) PS: Mr. Movieman.. laughter is the BEST medicine!! (hope you are feeling better, sir) :-)
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Ah HA! I knew there was a method to your madness.. It's all clear to me now..ha. Glad to have you as the brains for our operation.. Ha.
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Jackie.. what are you thinking??? This is the torture thread.. don't you have any pics of people in white that he DOESN"T like???
Oh wait.. here:
(sorry.. I WOULD have posted one from his new favorite movie... Blood Alley.. but alas, I am too lazy to make a screen cap and all I have is a Donovan's Reef.. ha)
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Travel Posters
What?? No Kansas City?????????????
(ha... kidding! Only kidding, sir!) What I REALLY wanted to say was that Addams Family/Baby Jane pic is a hoot!! Too funny! -
Some people can list all day long and with little headache. Many others can not do what even you did, list just a few of your favorites. It is a hard task to accomplish
Thanks for the encouragement, Mr. List King!!
I appreciate the kind words. Hope you are having a stellar 4th, sir!! Enjoy!
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Twilight Zone-a-Thon
We watched several episodes yesterday, but today I have been going back and forth between "The Zone", Bewitched (on TVLand) and Law and Order (on TNT) ha.. what can I say.. I like to mix things up now and then.
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I still can't feel sorry for a man like that, who at least had a mother who slobbered all over him, was popular in school, had everything handed to him including a beautiful wife.
It really is hard to see how someone with "everything" could feel so empty. And yet.. not so hard to see.. if you think about what really makes for a "full" life. I think what is amazing about him is that he did NOT grow up so "shallow" as to imagine he WAS entitled to all of that. (ha.. there, Grey Boy.. do you like how I turned this around?)
I feel sorrier for kids who grow up without money, usually because it's the absence of a hardworking father that often reduces families to destitution in the first place!
Like it or not.. money IS a necessary thing in our society. Do we all NEED to be rich and cozy comfortable living our every moment to excess to be happy??? Not even close. (go ask my ice-cube tray loving kid... ha) But it IS a good thing to provide for ones family in EVERY way.. and money is certainly a part of that.
I think the most important thing to give a kid is a solid foundation in life, and part of that includes a healthy perpective about who they are as a person(in the great scheme of things) and how they need to live to be a postive addition to the world around them. We already HAVE enough selfish "it's all about ME" people in the world. One of the best things you can teach your kids is that it is NOT all about them.. but certainly, it should be a lesson taught in and with love.. not one taught by neglecting them.
The mendacity part we all can agree is wrong, but no way is it wrong for Big Daddy to give presents
The bigger the bank book.. the bigger your wrapping paper and greeting card budget..ha. No need to be stingy... If you have the resources.. why not spend at least some of them on the ones you love. But THAT is the tricky part because it still it all depends on whether he is really giving you a genuine GIFT.. or if there are "strings" attatched. That really does define whether it is good or not for someone like him to buy you something.. because unfortunately.. he had a LOT of strings tied on to his packages.
So in that respect, I am glad Brick had out those "nose-cutting to spite his face" scissors that I mentioned..ha. If only to show Big Daddy he COULD cut all those strings... because they were not the way to tie your family's love to you.. it must be something stronger.
What a great discussion, I never knew it would get so knee deep
I am really happy to see how well everyone has been able to add their own spin on things.. and we STILL managed to not fling TOO much mud as we spun our wheels.. HA. (And I am still not sure WHY I have so often felt like I did not like this movie..ha. I OBVIOUSLY have a lot of "love" in the mix of that whole "love/hate" thing I mentioned. Not "love" for the characters.. as in "I think they are wonderful people" but rather just really being intrigued by how STRONG the emotions are behind each of those characters. I mean, good GOLLY we have not even scratched the SURFACE on Big Mama! ha)
Edited by: rohanaka on Jul 2, 2011 4:34 PM
Edited by: rohanaka on Jul 2, 2011 4:37 PM
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Ding!
And it is "Round 47", folks! And the Grey Guy hits back! ha.
I think you may be a little naive with her show. Yeah, she likes Big Daddy, but she's got the whipped cream with sprinkles and a cherry on top out.
I think you'd have to watch the very first time we see Maggie. Maggie is so full of herself and caught up in the entire "game" and "show."
And to that, Rohanaka says "UGH!"
Boy.. talk about your one-two punches! (good thing I can stand to take a punch, now and then.. ha... at least a verbal one..ha. I wouldn't know the first thing about REAL boxing... ick.. ha)
Boy, oh BOY! I am HATING to have to confess this... but there IS something to what you are saying here.. though I may not entirely agree. Now that I go back and look at some of what you are posting in your screencaps, I can see she is a bit "obvious" in some respects. ha. (I HATE when you do that)
Her entire focus is to make sure her and Brick don't lose their piece of the pie.
In truth.. I have only seen this movie just a couple of times.. and this last time I missed the beginning.. so I had forgotten some of the earlier scenes until you brought them up. But I still maintain that was not her "entire" focus. I think she DID know what side her bread was buttered on.. but I still think her biggest motivation was not the money. (I know.. call me stubborn.. you aren't going to punch me again, are you??)
:p That's why I have been surprised by your not understanding and valuing what Brick is saying to Big Daddy
Wellllllll... I think the biggest problem has been... in my "zeal" to "defend" Maggie (ha) I lost sight of needing to place more emphasis on the more important themes in the story.... because I DO NOT disagree with you about how Brick and Big Daddy needed to reconcile their whole "I really just wanted your love" issues. But I am wondering how much of all that was a part of what was really driving Brick through most of the movie... and how much of it just finally came out as they were letting all the emotions fly down their in the basement. I don't know. But it IS a big part of the problem they had with one another and it is a big part of what got fixed too, I think, after they were finally able to communicate.
You missed the point. It's not about forgiveness, it's about what a person does. It's about buying back lost time with money and gifts. Is that really making up for not being a mother? I don't believe so
And I would agree with you.. BUT I would ask you this... is a person who has made mistakes in the past and has tried to resume a relationship with people they have wronged always guilty of trying to "buy back" someone's love just because they want to give a gift now? It really all depends on whether there has been a true change of heart (on both sides) And again.. that would only be a question you and your family could answer. I guess what I was saying is that it doesn't always have to be a "pay-off" for someone to try and make up for lost time by seeking to give some one they love (and hurt) a gift... but I can see how it could LOOK that way.. or even BE that way.. depeding on the situation. I think it is a case by case thing... there is no blanket answer. It all depends on the individual people.. and what is motivating them.
It's the time we spend together, not the money. A loving presence is worth far more than a gift-full absence
I agree with that... no argument there.
I still don't believe Brick is entitled to anything. It's up to Big Daddy to decide that. I'm not sure about this, but I believe Big Mama is the only who is entitled to anything. I don't buy into this "entitled" stuff
You know.. "entitled" IS an ugly word. Maybe that is not the best way to say it.
But I guess what I am saying (and obviously not as well as I should) is that.. he is a part of that family and should not be so willing to just toss away everything that comes WITH that position... everything including the money. (because I still maintain that for the majority of the movie.. he is acting like a self-pitying, judgemental jerk.. and his "I'm above all the mendacity" mindset was not some noble act so much as it was him just being disgusted and spiteful. When he and Big Daddy finally DO throw away all the "attitudes" they were clinging to.. and just started to really TALK about what was real.. that is when the true emotions and motivations behind what they were feeling started to come out.
That's a fantastic question! I'd say they wouldn't come together without Big Daddy's situation
And sadly.. I imagine you are right. His time really was short.. and it would have been SUCH a waste for Brick to have been looking down on that old man's grave and only WISHING he'd have had that basement talk with him.. "IF ONLY" is a horrible thing to have to face when it is too late to change things.
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The Grey Guy says: ...Geez, I really am old-fashioned.
The Movieman says: Things don't equal love. Too many things given spoils how special gifts can be. "No" is not a bad word.
Ha.. it was so late last night, I totally MISSED that part of Mr. Grey's post.. you are spot on w/ your response, there Movieman... ha. (And PS "NO" can and should be (at times) a good Mama or Daddy's favorite word, ha.
Good gravy, Mr. Grey.. you DO realize who you were talking to, don't you?? The "queen of thrifty".. ha. I used to let my daughter play with empty cereal boxes and instead of buying her those nice (expensive) wooden blocks to play with (when she was a toddler) I bought her 4 four packs of those 88cent plastic icecube trays to use instead.. which she did and LOVED every minute of it, by the way.
Meanwhile.. down the street.. a gazillion other kids were likely rolling in "electronics" heaven with all sorts of toys that lit up and made noise.. and did everything but the hula to entertain them. The poor kidling didn't KNOW what she was missing when she was a toddler..ha, but even now to this day.. she is 8 and we STILL do not spend a lot of $$ on "fancy electronic" fun. Almost every toy she has i(or has ever had) is something SHE has use her imagination in order to make it do ANYTHING and as result.. she is a creative.. enthusiastic, bright and fun-loving kid (who RARELY ever uses the phrase, "Mom, I'm bored". (but sadly.. she is also less tech-savvy than she likely should be.. we are only just NOW learning our way around a computer.. together.. ha... So I guess that makes ME old fashioned too... ha.)
And PS: Mr Movieman...
isn't he looking for someone to measure up to his standards? If so, nobody that matters fits that bill and that galls him. He's embarrassed
I think on the one hand, he believed his ONLY self-worth was in what he could earn for himself and provide for his family... and on the OTHER hand.. he expected them to be under his thumb for it. He wanted people to stand on their own two feet.. so long as they still did it the way he thought they should But then he created his own monster.. because by attatching his own self-worth to his money.. he no longer thought anyone loved him for himself and made it all about the money..
And yet I freely admit that I could be the one remembering it wrong too.. ha.. because.. well.. I am old.. and that is just how I am remembering things.)
Edited by: rohanaka on Jul 2, 2011 12:53 PM
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{font:Calibri}Maggie does wish to have Brick's love. I think she wants that the most.{font}
{font:Calibri}Well that is pretty much what everyone seems to agree with, so HEY, we are getting somewhere, ha. {font}
{font:Calibri}Brick definitely loves his father more than Maggie does{font}
{font:Calibri}Well, he SHOULD. He’s his son. {font}
Is she worried about Big Daddy not loving Brick or is she worrying about Big Daddy not leaving him anything?
I think it is both, but read on and see why I think that is not a bad thing. Because, now see, this is where we go our separate ways. Because I don’t see her in as “dark” a light as you. You are making her motivation sound mercenary and sinister (on a baser level than what I think it was) True, she does want Brick get along with his dad as much for the money as for their relationship with him. But again, I don’t see that as BAD, but rather I see it as realistic. (because again, to have Big Daddy in your life, you also have his money)
{font:Calibri}Maggie feels they must do as the others do{font}
**I think Big Daddy likes Maggie's "show" more than those others. He knows what she's up to, but he finds her to be alluring and charming
{font:Calibri}You know, All throughout the whole movie, she is trying to keep up appearances (perhaps in a somewhat obvious way), but it is all going on while she is trying to get Brick to work out his ISSUES. She doesn’t want their private issues with one another to be “all out there” for everyone, and yet, they already are. But just because of that, I don’t think she is trying to be “un-truthfully” nice to Big Daddy or put on a false show, just to win him over. She is in a fight (with Brick) for her life, (as his wife) and a completely DIFFERENT fight with her brother and sisterinlaw (and maybe even Brick in a way)for Brick’s birthright and it is a fight for their future. It is not that she values the money MORE than her marriage, or Big Daddy, or anything else. But she does understand that the money is a part of the “package” of being a part of that family. {font}
You're right, she is honest to Brick. She tells him she grew up poor and didn't wish to be that again. I do respect her for that.
REALLY??? Was that the ONLY thing you saw with regard to what I was talking about?? Ha. (oh you stubborn, stubborn, man)
{font:Calibri}What SHOULD she have done? Just say, “Ok, Brick, honey. You win. Let’s go get a divorce and you can just go ahead and be as miserable as you want.” Because THAT is basically what he was wanting her to do, for pretty much the whole movie. {font}
{font:Calibri}But would that have been the “honest” OR “loving” thing for her to do? She was trying to get him to see the HARM he was doing not only to himself but also to her if he kept on his present path. She loved him enough to fight with him when he wanted to give up on everything. But that doesn’t mean she wasn’t aware of the financial implications too (if Brick got his way). But does that make her more worried about the money than her husband’s happiness?? (just because she doesn’t want to be “poor again”? {font}
{font:Calibri}Really, when you think about it, WHO in their right minds wants to give up what they are entitled to just because they are disgusted at how everyone else around them is acting about it? (only Brick) {font}
{font:Calibri}Sure, he is tired of all the nonsense. (I think I already told you, if it were me, I wouldn’t last five minutes, ha. I’d be slapping those people around a bit) But really, there IS such a thing as “cutting off your nose to spite your own face” and let’s be honest, Brick had the scissors ready to start cutting. {font}
{font:Calibri}I mentioned this earlier but will say it again, I am glad he was able to get down to the REAL man behind the misery. It took FOREVER for him to finally be that REAL person that he was trying to wash away by all that booze. Yes, he was hurting, frustrated, angry, disgusted, and maybe even scared. But FINALLY he was being REAL. (and I think ultimately, that is the one thing Maggie was waiting for: a good healthy dose of reality to sink in. Because THEN he could be reasoned with. Then he could truly talk about what was bothering him, and how they could either fix it, or move on from it.) {font}
{font:Calibri}But really, it was his conversation with Big Daddy in the basement that ended up REALLY getting things down to brass tacks. So she missed OUT on some of it, ha. And yet, he came back up from that basement a REAL person again. {font}
{font:Calibri}I have some experience with this (at least through someone else), but someone I know very well and am close to had some issues with her husband several years ago. He was hurt and angry by something some very mean and dishonest people in their extended family were trying to do (to him and his wife), and he became so upset and hurt by all of it, that it caused him to almost completely shut down. He was making some very bad choices (that were going to have some pretty permanent consequences) for him and for her and their marriage, SOLEY because he was hurting and did not want to listen to reason. It became so ugly at one point that she says he was like a total stranger. She couldn’t talk with him, reason with him, or even get anything out of him but a “brick wall” sort of response. It looked very bad for both of them as a couple for about a week or so. But THEN (finally) he saw through the fog of all that hurt he was in, and realized that what he was doing was NOT fixing the problem, but making it worse. And then after he was “in his right mind” again, he could be reasoned with. She said it was like someone “turning a switch” back on in him, and she knew she had her husband back. {font}
{font:Calibri}That is how I see this whole thing with Brick and Maggie. {font}
{font:Calibri}But getting back to Maggie and Big Daddy: {font}
{font:Calibri}I think he finds her “real”. And that is refreshing for him. And as for knowing what she is up to, hmmmm. I think that is true, but our definition of what she is “up to” is different, ha. Because yes, she wasn’t BLIND to his money. But she also didn’t LOVE him for it either. And I don’t think his money was THE thing that was making her be nice or behave in any certain way toward him. I think if anything, the BIGGER show Maggie may have put on was for SIsterWoman and Goober. (as in, “I’ll show THEM”) because she clearly saw THEM as the threat that they were. And she was not going to let them pull anything over on her (or make her look bad in their attempts to make themselves look good)
{font}{font:Calibri}She really didn't look to spend any time with me and my brother. Not until later. Does buying us gifts today make that better for us? Does that make her a mother to us when we were kids? With me, it doesn't{font}
{font:Calibri}Well, I can imagine that was hard on both you and your brother, but I also imagine that is a choice she has had to live with as well. Parents are human. And they sometimes make mistakes. Should your mom get a “pass” on the way she treated you and your brother when you were younger?? I don’t think that is a question that anyone but you and him can answer. But I can say that if a person truly SHOWS they have had a change of heart and mind, and if the parties that were injured can see their way past the past (so to speak) there CAN be room for forgiveness and the start of a new relationship free from the baggage of things that no longer pertain to who everyone is NOW. But IF is a big word, I know. {font}
{font:Calibri}I will go back to what I said earlier about this movie. You have honed in on what I think is THE most important theme in this story by the screencaps you are posting. I think this movie is MOST about Brick and how he eventually resolves his relationships with both his father.. and his wife.{font}
{font:Calibri}It takes resolving the FIRST issue for him to finally be able to resolve the second. And he (and everyone else) is the better for it. {font}
{font:Calibri}One thing I don’t know if anyone has touched on is WHAT would have happened if Big Daddy had NOT been dying? Would EITHER Brick OR Big Daddy have had their “moment” of awakening and finally gotten their heads on straight to talk things out? Sad that we often wait until moments like THAT before we try to fix the things we know are broken in our own lives and our relationships with other. But that is how it goes sometimes. {font}
Edited by: rohanaka on Jul 2, 2011 11:30 AM because.. ha.. it was WAY too late last night when I wrote this.. and well.. doofy things can happen when you are writing way too late at night. HA! ;D
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Mary Kate (Maureen O'Hara) wanted her "things" around her. She wanted to have her own home. But, ultimately, what she really wanted was for Sean (John Wayne) to understand her and to value her feelings and opinions. They needed to burn the money issue between them, together, before they could get on to what's most important. Once they got on the same page, they could really start to love each other.
Ok.. this pains me to say it, but I do agree with your take on this aspect of TQM. ha. But.. with regard to Maggie.. and with regard to Brick.. and with regard to their whole situation.. I see nothing of TQM.. or some of the other comparisons you are making (at least one if them is from a movie I have not seen yet, though, so I can't answer to The Sundowners tie in)
I think, for me I have always viewed Maggie's motivations as pretty simple. (and about 3-fold)
1) She is Brick's wife and wants him to start treating her that way. She loves him, but oh me oh my, she is pretty disgusted with all the stuff he is putting her (and himself, and everyone else) through and she is fighting back.
Because...
2) She's a fighter.. and she is looking out for what is and should be hers and her husband's best interests. Because like it or not.. to have Big Daddy as a part of your life.. you have his money too. (and the reverse of that is just as true as well) She is not about to walk away from her (and her husband's) rightful standing in the family (and all that comes with it) just because Brick wants to yell and whine and look down his nose at all that "mendacity" going on around them.... especially when her husband is really just being a selfpitying jerk and clearly is not thinking about anyone or anything but himself and wallowing in his own misery.
(And PS: Sure.. he ACTS like he's doing it because he is "above" all the greed and selfishness and disgusted by it.. but really.. he is just as selfish (maybe more so) than everyone else. Just for a different reason)
And finally...
3) Not only does she love Brick, but she DOES love Big Daddy too, by the way. (and I think she likes him too, for the most part. And PS: he likes/loves her as well.. because she is not "for show" with her affection the way SisterWoman and Goober..and their little pack of "no-necks" are). Now does she think the sun rises and sets on that old man?? No. She is not blind... she KNOWS he can be a son of a _______ when he wants to be.. but to Maggie.. that is NOT the worst thing in the world and it is worth putting up with Because the WORST thing would be for him to turn his back on Brick.. (and her too by association) or for Brick to turn his back on ALL of them, and no one would be able to take it back out of foolish pride. So she ends up in a situation where she has to fight tooth and nail to keep things from escalating (on both sides of the fence between father and son) just to keep that from happening.
Maybe I am wrong.. I am willing to admit that.. because I DO sort of have a love/hate thing about this movie.. so I may be remembering her differently than I should. But that is always how I have viewed her.
Is she "perfect, pristine, and noble" in all her motivations? No.. maybe not. But she is honest.. at least about how she feels and treats Brick and his dad. You have to give her credit for that.
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hope I haven't overrated it
Not at all. It is definitely a "lesser known" that deserves a chance to be seen. (Oh TCM programmer gurus...... are you out there???) :-)
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Yeehaw! I second the recommendation! I hope folks will give it a looksee. It is a very good story. (I recall the recent good gab we had on it in your Women of the West thread... at least I THINK that is where we chatted.. ha. We do move around a lot in here sometimes, ha)
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You give that squirrel Harry Fabian all kinds of breaks for putting money above all else
Dadgum, Miss G.. you stole my thunder, ha. I was already thinking that, but just had not typed it yet! ha. I would also throw that low-life TC into the mix as well.. ha. (good golly.. that man valued money so much.. he printed his OWN, bah) Double standards abound. (oh.. and this also reminds me a bit of his take on that whole Heathcliff and Kathy thing too.. ha)
[b]Robert Osborne's Absence Thread[/b]
in General Discussions
Posted
Thanks, Mr. "in Hollywood" for posting the info on this. I knew he was gone (from what I saw last night) but am glad for the info here that you posted.
Will hope and be praying for the best and most speedy of recoveries for our dear beloved Mr. Osborne. He is definitly the "face" of TCM for me and his daily presence will be missed. (though I am glad they have some items pre-recorded so he can still be here.. even when he's not)
But I will also say as a side note that if Mr.O had to be gone.. I am grateful to TCM for arranging to have some fine classic film "friends" (actors and other personalities) to come sit in for Mr. Osborne while he is away. It is a rare treat (at least for me) to see some of them this way, and to get their "insider" takes on some of the films and stars they will be introducing.