rohanaka

Howdy little darlin'.. I hope you don't get socked TOO hard. I bet you are REALLY sick of the snow by now (you folks got QUITE a bit more than we did this past month and WE got enough, for sure) Kansas City is so spread out it really depends on what part you live in (sometimes) as to what sort or "mess" you end up with when we get a storm like this. Some of the school districts in our area have had 5 or 6 snow days already from the two storms we already had (there are a lot of rural areas around here with a LOT of back roads, etc) Most of the districts have had at least 3 or 4 snowdays. Depending on how well they have predicted things this time, I am fully expecting we will get at least one or maybe even two days off this week (ugh. there goes the paycheck) but I guess we will wait and see what happents. Enjoy the brownies.. I'll make more, ha. (and maybe next time will even include some hot cocoa too.. we need all the help we can get to make it through the mess out there, ha)

Sorry to interrupt.. just saw that I am LATE to the party! Happy 24 K, Miss G!!!!!!! I think by now that cake Pappy had is all but gone.. so here is a little something more: BROWNIES FOR EVERYBODY!! Oh.. and Flixie deserves HIS own special treat TOO! :-) And PS: I am expecting to have a little time off this week from work (if the BIG HUGE GARGANTUAN and COMPLETELY HIDEOUS DISPLAY OF SLEET, ICE, and SNOW hits us the way it is SUPPOSED to) so I am HOPING to get to that youtube of Tyrone and Susan soon. I will look forward to reading everyone's comments about it! (yeehaw) :

Ten films with hanging scenes :-) I have seen all of the ones on your list except 2 (I have not seen Billy Budd nor The Dirty Dozen) I am a lousy list maker but if I WERE to make a list, I'd have to have the OxBow Incident at # 1 just because aside from being an EXCELLENT film, that is where I got my now "infamous" (ha) trademark "Frozen Rope" bit. I also like the big "hanging" scene that I posted the cap for from Hang Em High not because I am that big a fan of the film, but because I love the one man who gives the great "mini-sermon" just before his sentence gets carried out. That is a great scene. So let's see.. along w/ the ones on your list (that I have already seen)... hmmm.. I would also add a few more.. *The Furies* (pobrecito Gilberto!) *Mississippi Burning* (because the QT and I love the part near the end where they find the one city official guy swinging in the basement and Willem Dafoe says something like "his name wasn't even on the list" and Gene Hackman tells him it was because (if I recall) a guilty conscience (it has been a LONGGGGGGGGGG time since I saw that movie) Oh.. a recent addition would HAVE to be: *The Prisoner of Shark Island* (OH my golly when they are walking all the condemned prisoners out and Mrs. Mudd is waiting to see if her husband is among them.. YIKES!! And an honorable mention goes to *House By the River* though not REALLY a "necktie party" in the TRUE sense of the word (since the curtain rod breaks, if I recall) ha. And one more that I remember from a film literature class I took in college... this is not really a "feature film" but I saw this WAY back in the dinosaur days (before we all even THOUGHT about having VCR's in our houses let alone all the OTHER technology.. and it is quite a moving (and VERY thought provoking short film. I found it by googling (because I could NOT remember the title) and I was surprised to find it was ALSO shown as an episode of The Twilight Zone (and I can see why) Yo.. Grey Dude.. this one is right up your alley. (only about 25 minutes long, so not too long to watch) *An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge* http://www.viddler.com/explore/nzgmediefag/videos/12/ I am sure if I sat here a bit longer I could come up w/ more.. but will stop for now. It is getting late and I have a couple of chores I need to get to.. we are getting ready for a MAJOR winter storm to hit the next few days and I gotta go lay a few ropes out to be sure they get good and FROZEN, HA! You know, my arsenal has been dwindling a bit since I have been so busy and have not been able to keep up w/ things lately. I am restocking now because you just never KNOW when I may need to make a "persuasive argument" with somebody (not mentioning any names of course) over something GREY

That doesn't make you shiftless Maybe not.. (and may I just say "whew", by the way.. because golly.. if folks started saying I was acting like YOU.. ha.. that would be the end of the WORLD for me, HA) But gee.. missing out on all the chats DOES keep me from blabbing the way I like to... And OH woe is me. I have been too busy lately. I miss hanging you around here.. I mean hanging out around here. HA! But hey.. at least you all are getting some peace and quiet finally for a change and you can even get a word in edgewise.. because you know me. ha. When I am on here too much, Blabbage is my middle name. ha.. ok. I am making that part up.. but it SHOULD be my middle name, for somewhat obvious reasons, alas. Ha. :-) If musicals were like the two I watched, I'd like them. But I know better Well now I HAVE to see them for sure... if only to get a better picture of the Frank Grimes mindset, ha. (the man.. the myth, the mystery.. ha) Well.. I am off to hit the hay.. PS: REY... thanks for letting me hang out a moment or two in your thread... It was good to get a chance to gab a bit.. if only to get a few good "slaps" in on Mr. Grey. (I would not want to get out of practice, don't ya know)

Fair enough. I have been SO far behind in my own movie watching lately I cannot point fingers at ANYONE, ha And I am proud of you for expanding your horizons so well. I like musicals well enough but I can't say they would be in my MOST favorite genres. I will have to check into the two you mentioned.. as I have not seen them. (but at the rate I am going it will likely be this time NEXT year.. ha. OH me.. pretty soon you will have to start calling ME Shiftles.. perish the thought) .

I guess that makes it my favorite musical, too Well.. this IS the "favorite list" thread. ha. Oh brother.. I would LOVE to see your favorite musical list if THAT would be your #1.. ha. (Because calling that movie a musical is like calling chocolate pudding a dairy product. ha. Hey.. it has milk IN it.. it must be dairy)

I'm being railroaded! Everyone knows I'm the sweet and innocent one! Everyone? Well that explains it.. ha.. because I am NOBODY. ha. No wonder I didn't get the memo. Such harshness! And I'm nothing but kind and loving blah blah blah. My favorite western has a necktie party. It's my favorite one, too And I guess it would also be your favorite movie w/ harmonica music in it too.......... Edited by: rohanaka on Jan 30, 2011 1:45 AM

You're trying to get me hanged by everyone around here! You are doing a MIGHTY fine job of that all on your own!! EXHIBIT A: He's the only one who has love stories in westerns! What a wuss! Denver Pyle? Uncle Jessie? It's been a LONG time since we had us a necktie party around here.. hey.. now THERE's a list for ya.. Favorite Westerns w/a Necktie party in them. (not my FAVE necktie movie.. but the only one I had a quick and ready picture from.. ha)

Or just a whacked out freaky one, anyway

That wasn't my list! WAIT a minute.. I just went back a few more posts.. FOR shame, trying to pull a fast one on me. Liar, liar pants on fire.. (and if they aren't.. I DO have access to some matches and I think I MIGHT even find a blow torch out in the QT's shed out back so I COULD arrange it.) So what gives with all the LOVE for the Duke??? Are you having a mental breakdown or something??????????? And what.. (Jackie.. this one is for you) No Ben and Denver???

Ok.. now I feel better. I was afraid I had ended up in some sort of whacked out freaky alternate universe or something. But then again..

Yo.. Grey Dude: 10. Hondo (John Wayne) and Angie (Geraldine Page) in Hondo 9. James (Gregory Peck) and Julie (Jean Simmons) in The Big Country 8. Marlowe (John Wayne) and Hannah (Constance Towers) in The Horse Soldiers 7. Matt (John Wayne) and Sammy (Betty Field) in The Shepherd of the Hills 6. Ringo Kid (John Wayne) and Dallas (Claire Trevor) in Stagecoach 5. John T. (John Wayne) and Feathers (Angie Dickinson) in Rio Bravo 4. Will (Gary Cooper) and Amy (Grace Kelly) in High Noon 3. Quirt (John Wayne) and Penny (Gail Russell) in Angel and the Badman 2. Kirby (John Wayne) and Kathleen (Maureen O'Hara) in Rio Grande 1. Marty (Jeffrey Hunter) and Laurie (Vera Miles) in The Searchers 7 out of 10 are DUKE characters???? And 8 out of 10 are Duke MOVIES?????????????????????????????????????? What IS the world coming to, anyway!!

OHHHHHHHHH Good gravy.. just LOOK at what I have been missing out on in HERE!!!!!!!!!!! Now I have to go back through and see if I can catch up on all my reading. (and that is not to mention watching the MOVIES too.) Oh me.. I did see that at least one of them (was it KC Confidential?) had a link to youtube.. that will help. But OH me..I will just need to make the time to watch it) And I will have to go check out the others you have all brought up too (especially 99 River Street) At this rate I am going to be the one getting called "shiftless" around here (PERISH the thought) UGH.. I am such a slacker.

Sorry to interrupt any ongoing chats here folks.. just want to say that I (FINALLY) got to watch Prisoner of Shark Island this past weekend. (OH ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Miss G: this is what you had to say about Jackie's excellent opening post of this film: Wow, wow WOW!! And may I just add: WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now realy, I most likely need to go back and re-read some of you thoughts, Ms Favell.. but after just skimming through them again this morning, Miss G was right.. Wow is the word for it. You really had a good grasp on the film and it's characters. And I agree with your take on Carradine's performance... Oh, how I HATED him and yet I TOTALLY understood his emotions and his treatment of the man he THOUGHT betrayed our country and assisted in the murder of one of our most BELOVED president's... OH me.. what a story) I liked the resolution for his character at the end.. it was unexpected.. but it shows he was not just a flat, onesided "type" of character but really a PERSON who had real emotion and at least SOME sort of reason as the motivating force behind what he was all about. And of course the lead role.. Dr. Mudd... VERY inspirational. I really had not heard much about his story and how he had been caught up in the hysteria following the Lincoln assassination. I had never really even heard his name much at all (except maybe in passing) but the QT has studied that whole incident (with Lincoln and Booth, etc) a bit more and he knew the name right away. I don't know how much of this film was historical and how much was dramatized but wow.. what an amazing tale. Also loved Harry Carey's role.. again, what a pleasant surprise. So often "prison" officials (especially in films for this era) are just portrayed as "authority" figures or punishers.. these guys were shown as REAL people. I liked that a lot. And OH that Buck.. what CAN I say about him?? OH me. I REALLY loved his part in the story. I was FLABBERGASTED when he showed up at the prison.. and his whole part in the tale was just so moving and truly humbling when you think of what he was sacrificing in order to come to the aide of Dr. Mudd and his family. He COULD have chosen to forsake his previous life (once out of Mrs. Mudd's home) but he had a family of his OWN to think of (for one thing) but I do believe there was more to it than that. I am sure I am not saying this as well as I would like, but he seemed to have genuine respect (and even love) for Mudd and it seemed as if he was there as much of his own free will (as he was under the direction of his "master") Very amazing. I have no idea (and am not really worried) how historically accurate any of this film really was, but I TRULY enjoyed The Prisoner Of Shark Island a LOT and found it very moving. (The QT watched with me as neither of us had ever seen it before) Thanks for bringing it to my attention (and thanks to a friend for getting a copy to me so I could watch it) It had been on my list of "wanna sees" for a while but am glad you brought it into the spotlight for me so I could get a chance to check it out. What a truly amazing story. Thanks for letting me interupt a bit here... And NOW.. if I can JUST get time to watch GIANT... ha. then I will be THAT much closer to finally catching up with some of the older chats I have missed out on lately. (but then, of course.. I will still have to catch up on all the NEWER chats... and by the time I do that THEY will be older chats too.. oh me.. so many movies.. SO LITTLE TIME! )

And here's to the other birthday girl this week!! Happy Birthday wishes to YOU, Miss Maven!! Enjoy!!!

Best wishes, Ms Cutter! Hope your day is a happy one! Enjoy!

Hello Mr. Grey-vinia... ha. (somehow that just doesn't QUITE work.. but I had to try.. ha) Catherine was taught a certain way and I believe she is just following that lead. She is now her father's daughter. And her father would be proud that she locked Morris out. She is keeping the no-accounts away. Ahhhh, the irony of it all. It was ironic. The one thing he WANTED her to be... perfect... really wore as "ugly' on her in a way. I mean, by the time Morris comes back.. she likely never LOOKED lovelier.. and she was far more self confident and poised even.. everything I am sure her father would have liked her to be.. but inside.. a heart of stone. And I am not so sure the dad would have been as proud as you say.. he really got a slap in the face when she finally DID sort of come out of her shell. I wonder if he would have liked the new version of Catherine had he lived to see what she'd become. He likely would not have been able to push this one around and keep her as compliant and eager to please as the first one. He might have found he had his hands full. Her father's daughter She was definitely him now.. on steroids. (ha) but I don't know how well Sloper would have enjoyed seeing what she'd become under his teaching. UGH.. again .. it is all just so TRAGIC. To think of her gentle nature turned into someone SO rock solid and bitterly cold.. .. she was pretty much a complete 180 degrees from where she started by the end of the movie. (and I don't really think of that as a good thing, to be honest.) Not saying I wished she could have just stayed as sweet as pie forever.. but GEE.. I wish she could have walked away from it all better.. stronger.. but HAPPY. Very sad. Lavinia wanted to do what she could to help Catherine's love come to fruition. Is she a silly romantic for doing this or is she reading Catherine? Well.. I will agree that she was a friend to Catherine in many ways.. but I still think she just was not a good person to be matchmaking.. she did not have enough "depth of character" to show Catherine how to watch out for herself around men like Morris. I mean.. she said "if only you'd been a little more clever..." (again.. not sure if that is exact) but really.. she KNEW Catherine was not that "clever" and needed someone to SHOW her how things really were. It goes back to what I was saying.. she needed to love Catherine enough to tell her the truth.. and THEN let the chips fall where they may. At least Catherine would not have been so blinded by all that "glitter" from the attention Morris was paying her. I don't know.. I likely am just being too hard on the dear old gal.. but gee.. "conspiring" with him in the parlor when no one else was around.. that to me shows SHE was not clever enough herself and fell for Morris a bit too much as well. (maybe) guess we all have our definitions of what love is. I can see a woman respecting a guy and relying on a guy but not loving him. I can too.. but that is not really what I meant to say. (I went back and reviewed my post and what I really said was "love (and making sure you can rely on.. blah blah blah) but I should have maybe written it a bit more clearly as in LOVE.... and making sure the person you are going to marry is someone of character and will be a person you can truly respect and rely on... because really.. I see loving someone who is unreliable or loving someone I can't respect both as a recipe for disaster.. So reliability and respect really fall into "essentials" for me if I am considering someone to spend the rest of my life with. You are right though.. without LOVE as a part of it.. it WOULD not be all it could be as a marriage. But put all THREE of them together.. and it can be a thing of beauty for sure. You know, I think Morris would actually do exactly what you say. I believe he would pick daisies for Catherine if that's what she wanted. His preference would be to buy her roses, but I believe he'd do things for her I don't know. I think he'd likely do things that he thought would please her.. but only to keep her happy for HIS sake. So long as he had her "on the line" and pining for him, etc.. he was in a safe place... so yeah.. he'd likely try to find ways to keep her happy... but I truly believe his first and foremost motivation in doing so would be himself. PS: Jackie.. thanks for the pic of the little Toaster... too cute!!!! (and yes..ha.. WAY cuter than Vincent!) Edited by: rohanaka on Jan 12, 2011 7:36 PM

blame Peacemaker! Ha.. yes.. well apart from classic film.. food is one of my more favorite subjects. You knew sooner or later I 'd manage to figure out a way to talk about BOTH. ha. PS: Jackie.. you may keep the gourmet chef.. but PLEASE leave me my toaster.. ha. I would be lost w/ out it. (and the QT would miss his toast w/ eggs for breakfast) ha.

I'd say you have a practical mind, Quiet Gal Ya think?????? ha.(How many other gals do you know who would say to their beloved husbands.. "i want a new toaster for my birthday" and MEAN it. ha) Extravagant I aint... I yam what I yam, I guess. Ha. But when it comes to love.. and matters of the heart.. dadgum, I do confess.. "practical" sounds so awful, doesn't it? It always sounds do "dull and uninteresting" (but I guess that would be ME, ha). Maybe the better word (as it applies to love) would be "uncomplicated". Or genuine. I don't like all the "politics" of romance, I guess. Now don't get me wrong.. I love the whole "swept off your feet" feeling and I do NOT think it is wrong (generally speaking) to show genuine affection.. shower it even.. on the person in whom your heart delights... and with all due extravagance sometimes. But to be honest, that "swept off your feet feeling" is a fleeting thing unless the one doing the sweeping really LOVES the person who is being swept. To me it is far more attractive to have someone I know is REALLY who they say they are (and who really feels the way they SAY they do) sitting beside me and keeping me company while we eat toast from my boring little toaster, than to have a less than genuine person (who may only be interested in me for what they can get for themselves) come along and hire in a gourmet chef to fix me toast (just to impress me). Bah. Give me the "toaster" guy any day. When it comes to hearts and flowers, I'd rather have a bunch of handpicked daisies from someone I KNOW loves me and cares for me, than a dozen roses every hour from a person who is less than what they seem. I guess that may be why I have so little patience for Lavinia.. I just want her to do what is best for Catherine and I don't see consciously pushing her at someone like Morris (and openly encouraging the match, despite all she knows about what his motives likely are) as doing what is best for someone. So that may make me practical. And I must confess that word fits me (because I just have way too much evidence against me to deny it.. HA!) But I would also say.. uncomplicated and genuine... those are also words I like too. Ha.. maybe I am genuinely uncomplicated in a practical way, ha. :-) The tough part is that love can be very impractical Yes.. real love can be. But no where in this whole movie do we ever really get to see THAT side of it. Romance yes.. but love.. still waiting. Catherine may have loved Morris.. but did she REALLY love him.. or that idealized version of him that was being sold to her... believe you would be much more like Dr. Sloper than Lavinia. And I certainly don't mean any of that to be a negative. Well... hmmm.. I do always try to personalize my movies so I guess I would want to look at it from a parent's point of view. I hope I would never come off so harsh and demanding if the kidling were in that situation. I wouldn't want Morris to take advantage of her but it would be more because I want her to be happy.. and not about "my pride". And I would not try to do that whole "love with a slap" thing you mentioned. I love my daughter.. but I love her enough to tell her the truth. It would be hard, but if I saw her about to make a choice that I felt certain would lead to her unhappiness, I would tell her. And not to try and micro-manage her life either. It would be because as her mother.. I want the best for her.. and to see her settle for a "cheap imitation" of love would break my heart. Now I don't think (I am sure of it in fact) that I would ever threaten to disown her if she were to want to marry someone like that... but BOY, it would be hard for me to just sit back and watch her do it without at least trying to tell her how I felt. I would make sure I had all the facts, and then I would speak the truth.. but I would speak it in love. Think of me as the "kinder, gentler" Sloper. ha. My problem is that I'm mostly a "Lavinia" but my "Sloper" gets in the way. This makes me Catherine. Self-paralysis YIKES!

HOWDY there Miss G (ha.. I will bring a little of the "west" in here with me too, so you don't feel so lonely.. HA.) I am off work today due to REALLY LOUSY BLUSTERY COLD ROTTEN SNOWY INCLEMENT (get the picture yet?) weather. ha so I thought I would pop in and chat a moment (before I go BAKE something.. ha.. I need to find an activity to keep the kidling happy.. and gee.. baking would work for her AND for me.. ha). Getting back to the issue at hand, though.. She makes me laugh at her giddiness at the dance. She's very girlish, even childish. But I love this about her! Everyone else by contrast is so stodgy, serious and or completely oblivious to poor Catherine and what it all means to her future one way or the other You do have a good point. And I confess, I may hav sounded a bit harsh. I did not totally hate her. She was.. hmm.. likeably entertaining. ha.. maybe the sort of person it would be fun to hang out at a party with. But I just had a hard time really liking her because of the serious trouble that followed some of her foolish notions. I am likely being too hard on her.. but I think she really is as much to blame as anyone for what happened because she COULD have steered Catherine away from the hurt (especially when she saw it was NOT going well with the Doctor) but she just kept on scheming and trying to work things out "for love" and it really was a dangerous thing that ended up blowing up in everyone's faces. I don't entirely blame her for the whole situation.. but she was definitely a big part of the recipe (for ultimate disaster). Interestingly, Lavinia did seem to idealize her former marriage in a way that Doc Sloper did his, did you notice? She did, didn't she? I do recall that. And I think that played as much a part in all of it as anything. She wanted to relive her "glory" days of passionate youth.. even if it was only glorious in her own mind. And I bet you are right.. I wonder if EITHER of the long lost spouses were anywhere CLOSE to the ideals that had been made of them. (absense does make the heart grow fonder.. and also clouds the memory for faults a lot too) However, unlike Sloper and everyone else, I still believe she truly wanted Catherine's happiness. That is, she wanted what Catherine wanted, whereas Doc and his world wanted what THEY thought was "suitable". Catherine was happy with Morris for a while, after all. Happier than she'd ever been, even if it was a fool's paradise. See.. I just don't know. I agree that Lavinia thought she was aiding in Catherine's happiness.. but I am having trouble swallowing that"fool's paradise" angle. Because I do think somewhere DEEP DEEP down inside at least.. Lavinia knew for certain it WAS only a "fool's paradise" sort of happiness.. and I guess that is what they were BOTH wanting to settle for in the end. If you can't have the REAL thing, be happy with what you CAN have. But OH I hate to see someone.. ANYONE settle like that. (I guess all my romantic notions lean a different way.. ha. Love should be like Coca-cola.. ha... the REAL thing!) I base my predilictions for marrying Morris on the uneasy ground that I think he knew the rules and would have stuck to them at least long enough to give Catherine some years of happiness and possibly children. At which point she could deal better with any subsequent indiscretions or weaknesses...or even abandonment. She'd be no worse off so long as she could remain in her father's protection If Morris had been cruel, nasty or perverse, I'd feel very different You are right.. Morris was NOT cruel.. or nasty.. or perverse. But I don't know. COULD she have had a measure of happiness just settling for less? Probably. In fact, I would even go so far as to say yes.. most likely she would have. But would that have been enough??? It might have helped had she been able to have a child or two from the marriage. Then he could have gone off and had his "fun" and she'd at least have had SOMEONE finally who could have loved her. But there are never any guarantees. I just don't seem to be able to reconcile the whole "settling for less than" thing. Again.. I don't know.. I think the problem may be that I am getting too old (and set in my ways, ha) to buy into the momentary happiness of a "fool's paradise" (I love that description, by the way..ha) and I am too much of a realist. And maybe that is my failure.. OH to be less skeptical, ha. But age may have little to do with is as I have always wanted REAL..even if it means not having what is less than real (when it comes to friendships, relationship, romance, and pretty much just about anything). To me, that is better than a false sense of "happy". (though I confess.. it is not always more pleasant)And I have always been like that, by the way.... Ha... I used to hate magicians and clowns when I was kid.. I KNEW they were NOT what they appeared to be. (I knew they were only out to trick me.. so I did not trust them.. ha.. but I digress) I know I am likely just too demanding. I expect people to BE who they are and not pretend to be something else and if they really do care about me, great.. but when they are proven to be other than what they say.. or if they show themselves to be dishonest.. or insincere.. then I pretty much know all I need to know about them. (UGH.. I am sounding awfully judgmental.. OH no.. maybe I am Doctor Sloper.. ICK... I HOPE not.. I don't want to recreate anyone into someone else's image..ha. just want to know that whatever "image" they present is real) At any rate, for me.. someone like Morris ( a person who would prey upon someone who is weaker and take advantage of them for personal gain) is about as low as you can get.. and yet.. you are right.. he WAS not a mean-spirited sort of guy. Just self-serving. So I could be entirely wrong and it could be that Catherine WOULD have been better off with him. But the truth is.. I still don't know. I guess I just don't like it when my characters have to settle for a cheaper imitation of what they REALLY should have in order to be truly happy. (maybe I am just TOO set in my ways.. ha.) Maybe my "romance-o-meter" needs a tune up, ha... but I just don't see Morris and Catherine ending up "comfortably happy" in their future together if pretty much everything they have is only based on a "false" foundation. I am likely too hard to please.. ha. I need that whole "Rock of Gibraltar" sort of leading man in a story to be truly happy with the outcome, I guess. PS Jackie: I can find sympathy in all and in none.. they all do good things for the wrong reasons and it ends just as tragically as it possibly could. What you wrote, Goddess, about the Doctor and Lavinia's marriages is so interesting.... they are closer than either would admit to. But it also proves how huge a deal marriage is to them, which is funny, because they both underestimate it's effects on Catherine They do indeed. And I imagine you are right.... in their pre-conceived notions for what it would take for Catherine to marry, NObody ever saw her ending up the way she DID. That is one of the worst parts about it all. yes, as long as no one was to break her bubble of ignorance over Morris' true character, Catherine could have been very happy. One thing we haven't talked about is if Morris would have changed at all, or would the money have made the man? Could he have, just on possession of the money alone, and no change in character at all, could he have assumed a role not unlike Dr. Sloper's in society I see him as a user. (albeit a kindly one... again he was not meanspirited) I think he'd have just sat back and drank all the brandy and smoked all the cigars that the money could buy.. and then when the money ran out.. he'd have started selling stuff off to maintain his easy life for as long as he could. (and I think Catherine would have quietly ignored it all the while... I can almost read her mind, "Hmm.. that antique mirror in the hall is missing.. so is the silver tea service... but my, doesn't Morris look fine in his new suit?" And this is why she ends up hating the Doctor... not Morris. Morris would not have left if he had not created obstacles. No matter that it was Morris' decision.... I know the temptation when a man is having an affair with another woman is for the woman to blame the other woman.... is it similar It IS and I agree w/ Miss G.. that is a brilliant insight. Miss G says: her father has made her see that no one really loves her and this is wormwood to her soul You are BOTH on the money... even if she HAD lost Morris.. if her father had not been so "in your face" about everything.. she could have at LEAST smiled on the memory of their "brief' moment of romance.. instead her entire spirit was utterly crushed and reshaped into a cruel and bitter imitation of who she once used to be. OH I just keep coming back to this word.. but TRAGIC seems to be the only one that fits.. Truly tragic.

Well yippity skippity yee-hee-haw! Mr Grey I am just loving your posts on The Heiress!! But OH me.. I am in such a quandary... I am shocked.. appalled.. aghast, even... because now I must confess.. gulp.. I agree with MOST of what you have to say about this film. HOW in the world did THAT happen??? ha. (Yet there was at least ONE thing I disagree with.. and I will get to that in a moment.. you knew there had to be SOMETHING. ha) And wow.. what a fine job you have done w/ those screencaps again sir. That is your "thing" for sure. I really like how you are able to capture a "moment" and bring out some interesting and thought provoking, and sometimes "subtle" points that way. Now in truth, it is very late and I likely need to go back and reread everyone's posts when I am less "bleary eyed" but I did enjoy reading everyone's thoughts. This film (for me) is one that I love to go back and visit and revisit time and again.. so this has been a fun read, everybody. *Heiress Spoilage*: But I think she does "win" in this film. She succeeds in not falling for Morris and his phoniness. She didn't let her feelings win out. She wanted to love him but she knew he didn't love her. The sad part of it all is that I believe she's going to go the way of her father: cold and sour. You can tell she's carrying herself much differently by the end of the film. She's no longer shy. She's forceful I would never look at her situation at the end as "winning' because to me... EVERYONE loses in this movie.. but you are right... she is a MUCH different Catherine by the end of this film. And not a better one, at that. Her final outcome is really one of the worst possible scenarios for a person.. to become so hardened and bitter by personal tragedy. She finally DOES get the self confidence her father likely would have wished her to have all along.. but she has twisted it into a warped and mangled version of what she SHOULD have been instead of the person she COULD have been. Don't get me wrong.. I am GLAD she was strong enough to not be fooled or taken in by Morris at the end of it all.. but the WAY she does it tells me she will have NO happiness... no peace.. no pleasure in her life in the years ahead. Just cold and bitter self satisfaction that NOBODY is ever going to hurt her again... because she will NEVER give anyone the chance to get close to her that way again... not ever. (and what's more.. she is GLAD for it) Very sad. Miss G says: really feel for him at the end...yes, he's sick and dying and it's easy then to admit you made mistakes, but he shows he wasn't heartless The Grey Guy responds: he's ignorant of his harmful arrogance and selfishness. That's who he is. However, I don't think he purposely set out to hurt his daughter. It's a byproduct of his world and manner. I just can't give him a pass on it. His wife is probably the only person who could have reached him because he may have respected her enough. He doesn't respect the others. He's too superior for them Miss G, you are right. And I DO so want to feel sorry for him at the end (but I can't QUITE completely give myself over to it). And Grey Guy.. I think you are right.. if his wife HAD been a part of the picture, I think he would have ADORED his daughter.. or at the very least he'd have had far more tolerance of her "shortcomings' because she would not have had to be compared to the mother in his eyes. But most fathers aren't so disapproving of their daughters. Dr. Sloper compliments with one hand but slaps with the other. And it seems to always be in that order. That's it exactly. His pride prevented him from showing her any affection (despite whatever love he felt for her) because she wasn't the very picture of perfection that her mother had been. And it I think he felt it was his "duty" as her father to show her how she didn't measure up (so maybe someday she might at least get CLOSER to the ideal) Even if she never would be entirely the way he wanted her to be, maybe (just MAYBE) she'd finally improve herself.. even a little and he could find SOMETHING about her to like. She'd still NEVER be the woman her mother was.. but maybe at least he could tolerate her better.. if only she weren't so ________ (just fill in the blank) I do think he did love Catherine and he wasn't completely heartless.. but sadly (by his pride and stiff necked refusal to show her he loved her) he then made HER that way in the end. He more or less killed any ability she had to ever love anyone (including HIM). Very sad. But then, this whole story is a tragic example of how wrong a family can go when anything replaces love as the bond that holds everyone together. For the father.. he let his grief over his wife and his "pride' in his good name take priority over his love for his daughter and her happiness. For Catherine.. although she DID love her father her REAL motivation was not so much love for him.. but to find a way to FINALLY please him ( because that would make HER life complete) She was so blinded by HIS view of who she was... she had no ability to see her own self worth. Up until the time Morris shows up.. her entire existence was about "how can I finally be good enough to please my father". And then when Morris DOES show up.. she finally feels like someone DOES love her just for who she is.. only to get slapped down in the world's WORST way.. how horrific. And as for Lavinia.. What I saw in Lavinia was a genuine want for people to be happy. She wanted her brother to be happy. She wanted her niece to be happy. She wanted Morris to be happy. I wish the world had more Lavinias in it. She was very unselfish This would be the one area of this story where I feel I really have to just completely disagree with you.. because as much as I wanted to like her (and she WAS likeable enough in many ways) to me.. she was one of the most unlikable characters in the who story to me. She was what I think of as (oh no.. I am using a Pride and Prejudice reference her.. ha..) a "silly" sort of woman. Maybe NOT so selfish in her motivations as Mrs Bennett was (in P&P) but silly none the less. She may well have loved her brother AND her neice.. but to me.. along with TRYING to find someone (ANYONE) for Catherine to marry, her only other motivation really was more about the excitement of "romantic intrigue" What a dangerous combination. She had no real "criteria" for a suitor for Catherine other than that he was just that.. a "suitor". And when one so handsome and dashing as Morris showed up.. he swept Lavinia off her feet as much as Catherine. In fact, I bet she wished Morris could be HER suitor.. not because she was in love with him herself, but just because she missed being young and "in love" and so she lived out her fantasy of romance through the role she'd been relegated to (which was finding a match for Catherine.) She likely wished she could relive her own youth but had to take the "less exciting" role of matchmaker instead since she was an older widow. She strikes me as someone who got her ideas about what makes for a good marriage from reading too many dimestore romance novels. And don't get me wrong.. I love a good romance story as much as the next person.. but some people (like Lavinia) put WAY too much stock in it (and not enough in the things that truly DO matter) Morris was "dashing" and "exciting" and she reveled in the "romance" of watching a young man and young woman plan out their elopement, etc... To her they were like characters in a romance novel (right before her very eyes) and she couldn't have been happier to see it all play out. But really she was not too interested in making sure her neice would be HAPPY so much as she was in making sure she would be married. That would mean success as far as she was concerned. She forgot (or maybe never knew) that romance aint' love.. and at the end of the day.. love (and making sure the person you are going to marry is someone of character and will be a person you can truly respect and rely on) is what matters.. far more romantic bells and whistles. Her "silliness" about love and romance made her a POOR matchmaker and really she is as much to blame for what happens to Catherine at the end as anyone. Because for all her "silliness" Lavinia was also wise to the ways of the world as well.. which is why to me.. the way she sort of pushed things along for Morris to sweep in and elope with Catherine like that was one of the most UNKIND and selfish things she could do for her neice. She knew Catherine might not get another chance at a "dashing" young man like Morris.. but she'd rather see her neice married to SOMEONE than stay an "old maid" and she thought Morris was THE way to go.. (he might be her only chance.. even if he didn't love HER so much as her money) "Why couldn't you have been a little more clever" (or something like that) SHE knew he was not someone who would really love Catherine.. but she never warned CATHERINE about that. That was almost as much of a betrayal as anything the Doctor or Morris did and I think Catherine sees that too.. later on. (after everything happens) She has NO more respect for her aunt after this, and pretty much just writes her off from there on out. And then there is Morris.. When you throw HIM into this mix of messed up people.. well, things just go from bad to worse, don't they? His only motivation, really, was to escape the dullness of working to support himself, and to find a way to enjoy the life he loved.. parties, luxury, "richness" with no real "sweat" involved to get it. And he wanted that even if it meant being married to Catherine (whom I believed he ONLY found attractive because of the life she could provide for him). It was all a recipe for disaster from the very beginning to be sure Edited by: rohanaka on Jan 11, 2011 6:04 AM

Hello my DEAR Grey Guy I'm going to curse myself with this one, but I don't know of a food that does my stomach in. But, then again, my menu is extremely limited Yeah.. it is hard to get an upset stomach when all you eat is sawdust.. ha. Seriously though.. I did not start having too much trouble w/ digestion (of certain deep fried, hot, spicy, and/or somewhat combustible foods, ha) until I was.. oh about.. hmm.. YOUR age.HA!! (so now you may have SOMETHING to look forward to when you get to be an old fogey person like me) But for your sake, I hope not.. it is no fun to look at some yummy treat that I USED to love eating and have to weigh my options before eating it now.. as in: how MUCH do I think I can suffer tonight if I eat it.. and is it REALLY worth the misery?? OH.. I do so miss those "cast iron stomach" days of my youth. ha) Drat! You saw right through me! I am wise to your ways, Mr. Shifty.. I mean Shiftless... I'm trying to see all of the Ford films that I can. I'm up to 45 My hat is off to you sir.. or at least it WOULD be if I had one.. I have never been much of a hat person... ha. But either way.. 45.. wow.. I am impressed. I am not sure how many I can say I have watched myself.. I would to sit down and make a list and probably have to check his filmography too in order to be sure. But I imagine you are ahead of me. So pat yourself on the back for that one, sir. in a way, we are both accepting the cute in a film where the other didn't appreciate it nearly as much Well.. ha.. that has to count for SOMETHING!! ha. Maybe we should mark this date down on the calendar as yet another time we ALMOST sort of KIND of agree.. ha. Truthfully.. for all our kidding around... we do OCCASSIONALLY view some things very similarly in a movie.. but it doesn't always LOOK like we do because we each tend to have our own (and very different way) of expressing the same thing. Sort of like that song.. "I say tomato.. you say tomato" Oh wait.. that doesn't quite come out the same way on the computer as it sounds when you say it out loud. HA. Anyway.. the truth is.. . I think we just sometimes like to argue... or at least YOU do anyway... And by the way.. I like the way Miss G described Cordelia's purpose in that film.. (So PS: that was a nice way of expressing it, little lady) I actually love contemplative films, especially those that are deeply psychological Well.. I hope you give FOTP a chance then. There IS some action.. and it is even a bit suspenseful at times.. but it is more about getting into the mindsets of each of the men and figuring out how they are going to respond to their situation (and how their response will affect the outcome of the whole story) And BOY it is grueling.. it is very much a "man vs the elements.. man vs man.. man vs machinery.. and even man vs HIMSELF" kinda movie. And as a side note.. ha.. I DO have to say.. that whole "man vs the elements" thing is done very convincingly.. ha. I cannot watch that movie without walking away thinking.. "Now WHERE did I put my chapstick????" ha.

Happy New Year, Quiet Gal! Thank you Mr. Saur Kraut!! Ha. And a very Happy New Year to you TOO. No, no, no! I eat pork and sauerkraut throughout the year I can smell.. I mean TELL.. (ha!) Ok.. I am being rotten.. ha. That is an old family joke that we use around here whenever anyone of us eats something that dangerous. ha. To be truthful I like a good serving of kraut and some kind of sausage (usually kielbasa) myself.. yum. But BOY I don't eat it too often because I usually pay for it later.. ha. And NO that is not a confession on my cooking skills..ha. More like a sad commentary about my digestion not being as friendly for certain foods as it used to be. (And NO I am still NOT talking about my cooking.. so just you sit back down Mr. Smartmouth.. ha) Boy.. I must be slipping.. I sort of walked right into both of those, didn't I??? ha. Now I know I'll hate it! Actually.. if the ending is any indication.. I THINK you might like this one.. but I will hold out and wait for you to say for sure.. I am a rotten guesser.. ha. I agree with you. How does that feel? WHAT?? Are you already just trying to fulfill your once a year "token" agreement with me and get it over with?? ha. So SOON in the New Year too... now where's the fun in THAT?? ha. You're right, it's not cute throughout the film, but I felt the tone of the film really changed with the child. But, really, the tone was there from the start, I just overlooked it. Keep in mind, both you and Jackie brought up the baby as being something to really like about 3 Godfathers. Why? Ford knew what he was doing. Ok... so I confess.. I LOVE the baby.. ha. And I do concede it DOES play up pretty cute when HE is the focus of the story. And the rest is pretty much just open to opinion.. is it enough to more or less lead the rest of the story astray??? Maybe for some.... but I was ok with it. But again.. I do appreciate the fact that you were willing to watch it despite your lowered expectations for it.. so I guess I won't browbeat you TOO hard for the fact that you just want to "dis" my sweet little Robert William Pedro. ha. And you are right.. the ending does lighten the tone back up considerably and to me.. that is the worse offense (than the cute little baby bottom, ha) If it had ended more on the level of the 1930's film.. I am thinking the naked baby in the wilderness would not have bothered you quite as much (especially after reading your comment about movies that deal with sacrifice) But I have to say that even though an alternative ending could have been the "stronger" way to go.. I am glad for the way this one ended anyway. Not saying it should ALWAYS be a happy end in every movie.. but for me.. this one ended the way I would want it too. Oh.. and also wanted to say I did not mean to underplay the "elements" they were up against in this story.. while I do agree that the "man vs the desert" is a big issue they are fighting.. to me.. it was still the "bad guy doing the right thing" that is the main point of the story. Was it too much with Cordelia? Yeah, probably Yeah.. definitely. It was supposed to be a slap.. and she COULD have been made to be offensive for her shallow and self absorbed ideas.. instead she came off (to me) like some sort of Mayberry RFD character from the Andy Griffith Show. She was too silly and fluffy to be as offensive as she was supposed to appear.. at least to me. Not saying she ruined the movie for me.. just saying I wish her "stupidity" had been more "seriously" portrayed.. instead of the way she came off. A good example of a "silly" character being use more effectively as a commentary on society is in the movie The Patriot (with Mel Gibson) At least to me anyway.. ha. And it is something the QT and I always laugh over when we watch it. A bunch of British officers and their families are out on the lawn having a party enjoying themselves and a bunch of colonial militia men blow up a ship out in the harbor. And from a distance it is quite a sight to behold.. and one of the British ladies (in all her powdered wig finery) giggles with glee in her ignorance "Ah.. fireworks!" (OH... If you could ONLY hear the QT use his best falsetto voice and mimic her whenever we see ANY sort of explosion on TV or in a movie.. ha. TOO funny.. but I digress) Anyway.. THAT to me is a much better way to play a "dopey" ignorant "better than you" sort of lady.. in a serious film. I may just be too harsh on Cordelia, but Sgt Rutledge was just such a powerful story and SO strong a movie.. and she was too likably cute to offend me. I wanted to look down on her for her wrong opinions and all I could do was laugh at her silliness instead. I don't know if that make any sense at all.. ha. But likely not.. I am (afterall) an old worn out woman and I am much in need of my long winter's nap.. ha. so I am likely starting to babble a bit.. (wouldn't be the first time.. HA) RE: Flight of Phoenix I hope you get the chance to watch it. It is a very interesting character study. It is one of the QT's favorite "boring" movies (as you and he both call them.. ha) That is "boring" meaning. you have to sit and watch it and THINK about it and a lot of time there is not a lot of "action" but it is more about the dialogue and how the characters interact. But he would be the first to tell you the MOVIE is anything but boring. We pull it out and watch it once a year or so.. it is a bit long (or maybe it just SEEMS that way.. ha) but it is a good way to spend a quiet afternoon if you want a nice "meatier" story to chew on a bit. (OH poor Ernest Borgine.. ha. That has to be just about my most favorite role ever for him by the way) Edited by: rohanaka on Jan 6, 2011 10:53 PM

Don't ya just hate it when he does that, the little smarty pants.. ha.

OH my darlin' Miss Maven!!!!!!! Welcome back out west, little gal!! I agree w/ every word!!