[Ralph Richardson, film actor]

Hello Mr. Grey-vinia... ha. (somehow that just doesn't QUITE work.. but I had to try.. ha)

 

Catherine was taught a certain way and I believe she is just following that lead. She is now her father's daughter. And her father would be proud that she locked Morris out. She is keeping the no-accounts away. Ahhhh, the irony of it all.

 

It was ironic. The one thing he WANTED her to be... perfect... really wore as "ugly' on her in a way. I mean, by the time Morris comes back.. she likely never LOOKED lovelier.. and she was far more self confident and poised even.. everything I am sure her father would have liked her to be.. but inside.. a heart of stone.

 

And I am not so sure the dad would have been as proud as you say.. he really got a slap in the face when she finally DID sort of come out of her shell. I wonder if he would have liked the new version of Catherine had he lived to see what she'd become. He likely would not have been able to push this one around and keep her as compliant and eager to please as the first one. He might have found he had his hands full.

 

Her father's daughter

 

She was definitely him now.. on steroids. (ha) but I don't know how well Sloper would have enjoyed seeing what she'd become under his teaching.

 

UGH.. again .. it is all just so TRAGIC. To think of her gentle nature turned into someone SO rock solid and bitterly cold.. .. she was pretty much a complete 180 degrees from where she started by the end of the movie. (and I don't really think of that as a good thing, to be honest.) Not saying I wished she could have just stayed as sweet as pie forever.. but GEE.. I wish she could have walked away from it all better.. stronger.. but HAPPY. Very sad.

 

Lavinia wanted to do what she could to help Catherine's love come to fruition. Is she a silly romantic for doing this or is she reading Catherine?

 

Well.. I will agree that she was a friend to Catherine in many ways.. but I still think she just was not a good person to be matchmaking.. she did not have enough "depth of character" to show Catherine how to watch out for herself around men like Morris. I mean.. she said "if only you'd been a little more clever..." (again.. not sure if that is exact) but really.. she KNEW Catherine was not that "clever" and needed someone to SHOW her how things really were. It goes back to what I was saying.. she needed to love Catherine enough to tell her the truth.. and THEN let the chips fall where they may. At least Catherine would not have been so blinded by all that "glitter" from the attention Morris was paying her. I don't know..

 

I likely am just being too hard on the dear old gal.. but gee.. "conspiring" with him in the parlor when no one else was around.. that to me shows SHE was not clever enough herself and fell for Morris a bit too much as well. (maybe)

 

guess we all have our definitions of what love is. I can see a woman respecting a guy and relying on a guy but not loving him.

 

I can too.. but that is not really what I meant to say. (I went back and reviewed my post and what I really said was "love (and making sure you can rely on.. blah blah blah) but I should have maybe written it a bit more clearly as in LOVE.... and making sure the person you are going to marry is someone of character and will be a person you can truly respect and rely on... because really.. I see loving someone who is unreliable or loving someone I can't respect both as a recipe for disaster.. So reliability and respect really fall into "essentials" for me if I am considering someone to spend the rest of my life with.

 

You are right though.. without LOVE as a part of it.. it WOULD not be all it could be as a marriage. But put all THREE of them together.. and it can be a thing of beauty for sure.

 

You know, I think Morris would actually do exactly what you say. I believe he would pick daisies for Catherine if that's what she wanted. His preference would be to buy her roses, but I believe he'd do things for her

 

I don't know. I think he'd likely do things that he thought would please her.. but only to keep her happy for HIS sake. So long as he had her "on the line" and pining for him, etc.. he was in a safe place... so yeah.. he'd likely try to find ways to keep her happy... but I truly believe his first and foremost motivation in doing so would be himself.

 

PS: Jackie.. thanks for the pic of the little Toaster... too cute!!!! (and yes..ha.. WAY cuter than Vincent!)

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Jan 12, 2011 7:36 PM

[Ralph Richardson, film actor]

blame Peacemaker!

 

Ha.. yes.. well apart from classic film.. food is one of my more favorite subjects. You knew sooner or later I 'd manage to figure out a way to talk about BOTH. ha.

 

PS: Jackie.. you may keep the gourmet chef.. but PLEASE leave me my toaster.. ha. I would be lost w/ out it. (and the QT would miss his toast w/ eggs for breakfast) ha.

[Ralph Richardson, film actor]

I'd say you have a practical mind, Quiet Gal

 

Ya think?????? ha.(How many other gals do you know who would say to their beloved husbands.. "i want a new toaster for my birthday" and MEAN it. ha) Extravagant I aint... I yam what I yam, I guess. Ha.

 

But when it comes to love.. and matters of the heart.. dadgum, I do confess.. "practical" sounds so awful, doesn't it? It always sounds do "dull and uninteresting" (but I guess that would be ME, ha).

 

Maybe the better word (as it applies to love) would be "uncomplicated". Or genuine. I don't like all the "politics" of romance, I guess. Now don't get me wrong.. I love the whole "swept off your feet" feeling and I do NOT think it is wrong (generally speaking) to show genuine affection.. shower it even.. on the person in whom your heart delights... and with all due extravagance sometimes.

 

But to be honest, that "swept off your feet feeling" is a fleeting thing unless the one doing the sweeping really LOVES the person who is being swept.

 

To me it is far more attractive to have someone I know is REALLY who they say they are (and who really feels the way they SAY they do) sitting beside me and keeping me company while we eat toast from my boring little toaster, than to have a less than genuine person (who may only be interested in me for what they can get for themselves) come along and hire in a gourmet chef to fix me toast (just to impress me). Bah. Give me the "toaster" guy any day.

 

When it comes to hearts and flowers, I'd rather have a bunch of handpicked daisies from someone I KNOW loves me and cares for me, than a dozen roses every hour from a person who is less than what they seem. I guess that may be why I have so little patience for Lavinia.. I just want her to do what is best for Catherine and I don't see consciously pushing her at someone like Morris (and openly encouraging the match, despite all she knows about what his motives likely are) as doing what is best for someone.

 

So that may make me practical. And I must confess that word fits me (because I just have way too much evidence against me to deny it.. HA!) But I would also say.. uncomplicated and genuine... those are also words I like too. Ha.. maybe I am genuinely uncomplicated in a practical way, ha. :-)

 

The tough part is that love can be very impractical

 

Yes.. real love can be. But no where in this whole movie do we ever really get to see THAT side of it. Romance yes.. but love.. still waiting. Catherine may have loved Morris.. but did she REALLY love him.. or that idealized version of him that was being sold to her...

 

believe you would be much more like Dr. Sloper than Lavinia. And I certainly don't mean any of that to be a negative.

 

Well... hmmm.. I do always try to personalize my movies so I guess I would want to look at it from a parent's point of view. I hope I would never come off so harsh and demanding if the kidling were in that situation. I wouldn't want Morris to take advantage of her but it would be more because I want her to be happy.. and not about "my pride". And I would not try to do that whole "love with a slap" thing you mentioned.

 

I love my daughter.. but I love her enough to tell her the truth. It would be hard, but if I saw her about to make a choice that I felt certain would lead to her unhappiness, I would tell her. And not to try and micro-manage her life either. It would be because as her mother.. I want the best for her.. and to see her settle for a "cheap imitation" of love would break my heart.

 

Now I don't think (I am sure of it in fact) that I would ever threaten to disown her if she were to want to marry someone like that... but BOY, it would be hard for me to just sit back and watch her do it without at least trying to tell her how I felt. I would make sure I had all the facts, and then I would speak the truth.. but I would speak it in love.

 

Think of me as the "kinder, gentler" Sloper. ha.

 

My problem is that I'm mostly a "Lavinia" but my "Sloper" gets in the way. This makes me Catherine. Self-paralysis

 

YIKES!

[Ralph Richardson, film actor]

HOWDY there Miss G (ha.. I will bring a little of the "west" in here with me too, so you don't feel so lonely.. HA.)

 

I am off work today due to REALLY LOUSY BLUSTERY COLD ROTTEN SNOWY INCLEMENT (get the picture yet?) weather. ha so I thought I would pop in and chat a moment (before I go BAKE something.. ha.. I need to find an activity to keep the kidling happy.. and gee.. baking would work for her AND for me.. ha).

 

Getting back to the issue at hand, though..

 

She makes me laugh at her giddiness at the dance. She's very girlish, even childish. But I love this about her! Everyone else by contrast is so stodgy, serious and or completely oblivious to poor Catherine and what it all means to her future one way or the other

 

You do have a good point. And I confess, I may hav sounded a bit harsh. I did not totally hate her. She was.. hmm.. likeably entertaining. ha.. maybe the sort of person it would be fun to hang out at a party with. But I just had a hard time really liking her because of the serious trouble that followed some of her foolish notions. I am likely being too hard on her.. but I think she really is as much to blame as anyone for what happened because she COULD have steered Catherine away from the hurt (especially when she saw it was NOT going well with the Doctor) but she just kept on scheming and trying to work things out "for love" and it really was a dangerous thing that ended up blowing up in everyone's faces. I don't entirely blame her for the whole situation.. but she was definitely a big part of the recipe (for ultimate disaster).

 

Interestingly, Lavinia did seem to idealize her former marriage in a way that Doc Sloper did his, did you notice?

 

She did, didn't she? I do recall that. And I think that played as much a part in all of it as anything. She wanted to relive her "glory" days of passionate youth.. even if it was only glorious in her own mind. And I bet you are right.. I wonder if EITHER of the long lost spouses were anywhere CLOSE to the ideals that had been made of them. (absense does make the heart grow fonder.. and also clouds the memory for faults a lot too)

 

However, unlike Sloper and everyone else, I still believe she truly wanted Catherine's happiness. That is, she wanted what Catherine wanted, whereas Doc and his world wanted what THEY thought was "suitable". Catherine was happy with Morris for a while, after all. Happier than she'd ever been, even if it was a fool's paradise.

 

See.. I just don't know. I agree that Lavinia thought she was aiding in Catherine's happiness.. but I am having trouble swallowing that"fool's paradise" angle. Because I do think somewhere DEEP DEEP down inside at least.. Lavinia knew for certain it WAS only a "fool's paradise" sort of happiness.. and I guess that is what they were BOTH wanting to settle for in the end. If you can't have the REAL thing, be happy with what you CAN have. But OH I hate to see someone.. ANYONE settle like that. (I guess all my romantic notions lean a different way.. ha. Love should be like Coca-cola.. ha... the REAL thing!)

 

I base my predilictions for marrying Morris on the uneasy ground that I think he knew the rules and would have stuck to them at least long enough to give Catherine some years of happiness and possibly children. At which point she could deal better with any subsequent indiscretions or weaknesses...or even abandonment. She'd be no worse off so long as she could remain in her father's protection

 

If Morris had been cruel, nasty or perverse, I'd feel very different

 

You are right.. Morris was NOT cruel.. or nasty.. or perverse. But I don't know. COULD she have had a measure of happiness just settling for less? Probably. In fact, I would even go so far as to say yes.. most likely she would have. But would that have been enough??? It might have helped had she been able to have a child or two from the marriage. Then he could have gone off and had his "fun" and she'd at least have had SOMEONE finally who could have loved her. But there are never any guarantees. I just don't seem to be able to reconcile the whole "settling for less than" thing. Again.. I don't know..

 

I think the problem may be that I am getting too old (and set in my ways, ha) to buy into the momentary happiness of a "fool's paradise" (I love that description, by the way..ha) and I am too much of a realist. And maybe that is my failure.. OH to be less skeptical, ha. But age may have little to do with is as I have always wanted REAL..even if it means not having what is less than real (when it comes to friendships, relationship, romance, and pretty much just about anything). To me, that is better than a false sense of "happy". (though I confess.. it is not always more pleasant)And I have always been like that, by the way.... Ha... I used to hate magicians and clowns when I was kid.. I KNEW they were NOT what they appeared to be. (I knew they were only out to trick me.. so I did not trust them.. ha.. but I digress)

 

I know I am likely just too demanding. I expect people to BE who they are and not pretend to be something else and if they really do care about me, great.. but when they are proven to be other than what they say.. or if they show themselves to be dishonest.. or insincere.. then I pretty much know all I need to know about them. (UGH.. I am sounding awfully judgmental.. OH no.. maybe I am Doctor Sloper.. ICK... I HOPE not.. I don't want to recreate anyone into someone else's image..ha. just want to know that whatever "image" they present is real) At any rate, for me.. someone like Morris ( a person who would prey upon someone who is weaker and take advantage of them for personal gain) is about as low as you can get.. and yet.. you are right.. he WAS not a mean-spirited sort of guy. Just self-serving. So I could be entirely wrong and it could be that Catherine WOULD have been better off with him. But the truth is.. I still don't know.

 

I guess I just don't like it when my characters have to settle for a cheaper imitation of what they REALLY should have in order to be truly happy. (maybe I am just TOO set in my ways.. ha.) Maybe my "romance-o-meter" needs a tune up, ha... but I just don't see Morris and Catherine ending up "comfortably happy" in their future together if pretty much everything they have is only based on a "false" foundation. I am likely too hard to please.. ha. I need that whole "Rock of Gibraltar" sort of leading man in a story to be truly happy with the outcome, I guess.

 

PS Jackie:

 

I can find sympathy in all and in none.. they all do good things for the wrong reasons and it ends just as tragically as it possibly could. What you wrote, Goddess, about the Doctor and Lavinia's marriages is so interesting.... they are closer than either would admit to. But it also proves how huge a deal marriage is to them, which is funny, because they both underestimate it's effects on Catherine

 

They do indeed. And I imagine you are right.... in their pre-conceived notions for what it would take for Catherine to marry, NObody ever saw her ending up the way she DID. That is one of the worst parts about it all.

 

yes, as long as no one was to break her bubble of ignorance over Morris' true character, Catherine could have been very happy. One thing we haven't talked about is if Morris would have changed at all, or would the money have made the man? Could he have, just on possession of the money alone, and no change in character at all, could he have assumed a role not unlike Dr. Sloper's in society

 

I see him as a user. (albeit a kindly one... again he was not meanspirited) I think he'd have just sat back and drank all the brandy and smoked all the cigars that the money could buy.. and then when the money ran out.. he'd have started selling stuff off to maintain his easy life for as long as he could. (and I think Catherine would have quietly ignored it all the while... I can almost read her mind, "Hmm.. that antique mirror in the hall is missing.. so is the silver tea service... but my, doesn't Morris look fine in his new suit?"

 

And this is why she ends up hating the Doctor... not Morris. Morris would not have left if he had not created obstacles. No matter that it was Morris' decision.... I know the temptation when a man is having an affair with another woman is for the woman to blame the other woman.... is it similar

 

It IS and I agree w/ Miss G.. that is a brilliant insight.

 

Miss G says:

 

her father has made her see that no one really loves her and this is wormwood to her soul

 

You are BOTH on the money... even if she HAD lost Morris.. if her father had not been so "in your face" about everything.. she could have at LEAST smiled on the memory of their "brief' moment of romance.. instead her entire spirit was utterly crushed and reshaped into a cruel and bitter imitation of who she once used to be.

 

OH I just keep coming back to this word.. but TRAGIC seems to be the only one that fits.. Truly tragic.

[Ralph Richardson, film actor]

Well yippity skippity yee-hee-haw!

 

Mr Grey I am just loving your posts on The Heiress!! But OH me.. I am in such a quandary...

 

I am shocked.. appalled.. aghast, even... because now I must confess.. gulp.. I agree with MOST of what you have to say about this film. HOW in the world did THAT happen??? ha. (Yet there was at least ONE thing I disagree with.. and I will get to that in a moment.. you knew there had to be SOMETHING. ha)

 

And wow.. what a fine job you have done w/ those screencaps again sir. That is your "thing" for sure. I really like how you are able to capture a "moment" and bring out some interesting and thought provoking, and sometimes "subtle" points that way.

 

Now in truth, it is very late and I likely need to go back and reread everyone's posts when I am less "bleary eyed" but I did enjoy reading everyone's thoughts. This film (for me) is one that I love to go back and visit and revisit time and again.. so this has been a fun read, everybody.

 

*Heiress Spoilage*:

 

But I think she does "win" in this film. She succeeds in not falling for Morris and his phoniness. She didn't let her feelings win out. She wanted to love him but she knew he didn't love her. The sad part of it all is that I believe she's going to go the way of her father: cold and sour. You can tell she's carrying herself much differently by the end of the film. She's no longer shy. She's forceful

 

I would never look at her situation at the end as "winning' because to me... EVERYONE loses in this movie.. but you are right... she is a MUCH different Catherine by the end of this film. And not a better one, at that. Her final outcome is really one of the worst possible scenarios for a person.. to become so hardened and bitter by personal tragedy. She finally DOES get the self confidence her father likely would have wished her to have all along.. but she has twisted it into a warped and mangled version of what she SHOULD have been instead of the person she COULD have been.

 

Don't get me wrong.. I am GLAD she was strong enough to not be fooled or taken in by Morris at the end of it all.. but the WAY she does it tells me she will have NO happiness... no peace.. no pleasure in her life in the years ahead. Just cold and bitter self satisfaction that NOBODY is ever going to hurt her again... because she will NEVER give anyone the chance to get close to her that way again... not ever. (and what's more.. she is GLAD for it) Very sad.

 

Miss G says: really feel for him at the end...yes, he's sick and dying and it's easy then to admit you made mistakes, but he shows he wasn't heartless

 

The Grey Guy responds: he's ignorant of his harmful arrogance and selfishness. That's who he is. However, I don't think he purposely set out to hurt his daughter. It's a byproduct of his world and manner. I just can't give him a pass on it.

 

His wife is probably the only person who could have reached him because he may have respected her enough. He doesn't respect the others. He's too superior for them

 

Miss G, you are right. And I DO so want to feel sorry for him at the end (but I can't QUITE completely give myself over to it). And Grey Guy.. I think you are right.. if his wife HAD been a part of the picture, I think he would have ADORED his daughter.. or at the very least he'd have had far more tolerance of her "shortcomings' because she would not have had to be compared to the mother in his eyes.

 

But most fathers aren't so disapproving of their daughters. Dr. Sloper compliments with one hand but slaps with the other. And it seems to always be in that order.

 

That's it exactly. His pride prevented him from showing her any affection (despite whatever love he felt for her) because she wasn't the very picture of perfection that her mother had been. And it I think he felt it was his "duty" as her father to show her how she didn't measure up (so maybe someday she might at least get CLOSER to the ideal) Even if she never would be entirely the way he wanted her to be, maybe (just MAYBE) she'd finally improve herself.. even a little and he could find SOMETHING about her to like.

 

She'd still NEVER be the woman her mother was.. but maybe at least he could tolerate her better.. if only she weren't so ________ (just fill in the blank)

 

I do think he did love Catherine and he wasn't completely heartless.. but sadly (by his pride and stiff necked refusal to show her he loved her) he then made HER that way in the end. He more or less killed any ability she had to ever love anyone (including HIM). Very sad.

 

But then, this whole story is a tragic example of how wrong a family can go when anything replaces love as the bond that holds everyone together. For the father.. he let his grief over his wife and his "pride' in his good name take priority over his love for his daughter and her happiness. For Catherine.. although she DID love her father her REAL motivation was not so much love for him.. but to find a way to FINALLY please him ( because that would make HER life complete) She was so blinded by HIS view of who she was... she had no ability to see her own self worth. Up until the time Morris shows up.. her entire existence was about "how can I finally be good enough to please my father". And then when Morris DOES show up.. she finally feels like someone DOES love her just for who she is.. only to get slapped down in the world's WORST way.. how horrific.

 

And as for Lavinia..

 

What I saw in Lavinia was a genuine want for people to be happy. She wanted her brother to be happy. She wanted her niece to be happy. She wanted Morris to be happy. I wish the world had more Lavinias in it. She was very unselfish

 

This would be the one area of this story where I feel I really have to just completely disagree with you.. because as much as I wanted to like her (and she WAS likeable enough in many ways) to me.. she was one of the most unlikable characters in the who story to me. She was what I think of as (oh no.. I am using a Pride and Prejudice reference her.. ha..) a "silly" sort of woman. Maybe NOT so selfish in her motivations as Mrs Bennett was (in P&P) but silly none the less.

 

She may well have loved her brother AND her neice.. but to me.. along with TRYING to find someone (ANYONE) for Catherine to marry, her only other motivation really was more about the excitement of "romantic intrigue" What a dangerous combination. She had no real "criteria" for a suitor for Catherine other than that he was just that.. a "suitor". And when one so handsome and dashing as Morris showed up.. he swept Lavinia off her feet as much as Catherine.

 

In fact, I bet she wished Morris could be HER suitor.. not because she was in love with him herself, but just because she missed being young and "in love" and so she lived out her fantasy of romance through the role she'd been relegated to (which was finding a match for Catherine.) She likely wished she could relive her own youth but had to take the "less exciting" role of matchmaker instead since she was an older widow.

 

She strikes me as someone who got her ideas about what makes for a good marriage from reading too many dimestore romance novels. And don't get me wrong.. I love a good romance story as much as the next person.. but some people (like Lavinia) put WAY too much stock in it (and not enough in the things that truly DO matter) Morris was "dashing" and "exciting" and she reveled in the "romance" of watching a young man and young woman plan out their elopement, etc... To her they were like characters in a romance novel (right before her very eyes) and she couldn't have been happier to see it all play out.

 

But really she was not too interested in making sure her neice would be HAPPY so much as she was in making sure she would be married. That would mean success as far as she was concerned. She forgot (or maybe never knew) that romance aint' love.. and at the end of the day.. love (and making sure the person you are going to marry is someone of character and will be a person you can truly respect and rely on) is what matters.. far more romantic bells and whistles.

 

Her "silliness" about love and romance made her a POOR matchmaker and really she is as much to blame for what happens to Catherine at the end as anyone.

 

Because for all her "silliness" Lavinia was also wise to the ways of the world as well.. which is why to me.. the way she sort of pushed things along for Morris to sweep in and elope with Catherine like that was one of the most UNKIND and selfish things she could do for her neice. She knew Catherine might not get another chance at a "dashing" young man like Morris.. but she'd rather see her neice married to SOMEONE than stay an "old maid" and she thought Morris was THE way to go.. (he might be her only chance.. even if he didn't love HER so much as her money) "Why couldn't you have been a little more clever" (or something like that) SHE knew he was not someone who would really love Catherine.. but she never warned CATHERINE about that.

 

That was almost as much of a betrayal as anything the Doctor or Morris did and I think Catherine sees that too.. later on. (after everything happens) She has NO more respect for her aunt after this, and pretty much just writes her off from there on out.

 

And then there is Morris.. When you throw HIM into this mix of messed up people.. well, things just go from bad to worse, don't they? His only motivation, really, was to escape the dullness of working to support himself, and to find a way to enjoy the life he loved.. parties, luxury, "richness" with no real "sweat" involved to get it. And he wanted that even if it meant being married to Catherine (whom I believed he ONLY found attractive because of the life she could provide for him).

 

It was all a recipe for disaster from the very beginning to be sure

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Jan 11, 2011 6:04 AM

[Western Movie Rambles]

Hello my DEAR Grey Guy

 

I'm going to curse myself with this one, but I don't know of a food that does my stomach in. But, then again, my menu is extremely limited

 

Yeah.. it is hard to get an upset stomach when all you eat is sawdust.. ha.

 

Seriously though.. I did not start having too much trouble w/ digestion (of certain deep fried, hot, spicy, and/or somewhat combustible foods, ha) until I was.. oh about.. hmm.. YOUR age.HA!! (so now you may have SOMETHING to look forward to when you get to be an old fogey person like me)

 

But for your sake, I hope not.. it is no fun to look at some yummy treat that I USED to love eating and have to weigh my options before eating it now.. as in: how MUCH do I think I can suffer tonight if I eat it.. and is it REALLY worth the misery?? OH.. I do so miss those "cast iron stomach" days of my youth. ha)

 

Drat! You saw right through me!

 

I am wise to your ways, Mr. Shifty.. I mean Shiftless...

 

I'm trying to see all of the Ford films that I can. I'm up to 45

 

My hat is off to you sir.. or at least it WOULD be if I had one.. I have never been much of a hat person... ha. But either way.. 45.. wow.. I am impressed. I am not sure how many I can say I have watched myself.. I would to sit down and make a list and probably have to check his filmography too in order to be sure. But I imagine you are ahead of me. So pat yourself on the back for that one, sir.

 

in a way, we are both accepting the cute in a film where the other didn't appreciate it nearly as much

 

Well.. ha.. that has to count for SOMETHING!! ha. Maybe we should mark this date down on the calendar as yet another time we ALMOST sort of KIND of agree.. ha. Truthfully.. for all our kidding around... we do OCCASSIONALLY view some things very similarly in a movie.. but it doesn't always LOOK like we do because we each tend to have our own (and very different way) of expressing the same thing. Sort of like that song.. "I say tomato.. you say tomato" Oh wait.. that doesn't quite come out the same way on the computer as it sounds when you say it out loud. HA. Anyway.. the truth is.. . I think we just sometimes like to argue... or at least YOU do anyway...

 

And by the way.. I like the way Miss G described Cordelia's purpose in that film.. (So PS: that was a nice way of expressing it, little lady)

 

I actually love contemplative films, especially those that are deeply psychological

 

Well.. I hope you give FOTP a chance then. There IS some action.. and it is even a bit suspenseful at times.. but it is more about getting into the mindsets of each of the men and figuring out how they are going to respond to their situation (and how their response will affect the outcome of the whole story) And BOY it is grueling.. it is very much a "man vs the elements.. man vs man.. man vs machinery.. and even man vs HIMSELF" kinda movie.

 

And as a side note.. ha.. I DO have to say.. that whole "man vs the elements" thing is done very convincingly.. ha. I cannot watch that movie without walking away thinking.. "Now WHERE did I put my chapstick????" ha.

[Western Movie Rambles]

Happy New Year, Quiet Gal!

 

Thank you Mr. Saur Kraut!! Ha. And a very Happy New Year to you TOO.

 

No, no, no! I eat pork and sauerkraut throughout the year

 

I can smell.. I mean TELL.. (ha!) Ok.. I am being rotten.. ha. That is an old family joke that we use around here whenever anyone of us eats something that dangerous. ha. To be truthful I like a good serving of kraut and some kind of sausage (usually kielbasa) myself.. yum.

 

But BOY I don't eat it too often because I usually pay for it later.. ha. And NO that is not a confession on my cooking skills..ha. More like a sad commentary about my digestion not being as friendly for certain foods as it used to be. (And NO I am still NOT talking about my cooking.. so just you sit back down Mr. Smartmouth.. ha) Boy.. I must be slipping.. I sort of walked right into both of those, didn't I??? ha.

 

Now I know I'll hate it!

 

Actually.. if the ending is any indication.. I THINK you might like this one.. but I will hold out and wait for you to say for sure.. I am a rotten guesser.. ha.

 

I agree with you. How does that feel?

 

WHAT?? Are you already just trying to fulfill your once a year "token" agreement with me and get it over with?? ha. So SOON in the New Year too... now where's the fun in THAT?? ha.

 

You're right, it's not cute throughout the film, but I felt the tone of the film really changed with the child. But, really, the tone was there from the start, I just overlooked it.

 

Keep in mind, both you and Jackie brought up the baby as being something to really like about 3 Godfathers. Why? Ford knew what he was doing.

 

 

Ok... so I confess.. I LOVE the baby.. ha. And I do concede it DOES play up pretty cute when HE is the focus of the story. And the rest is pretty much just open to opinion.. is it enough to more or less lead the rest of the story astray??? Maybe for some.... but I was ok with it. But again.. I do appreciate the fact that you were willing to watch it despite your lowered expectations for it.. so I guess I won't browbeat you TOO hard for the fact that you just want to "dis" my sweet little Robert William Pedro. ha. And you are right.. the ending does lighten the tone back up considerably and to me.. that is the worse offense (than the cute little baby bottom, ha) If it had ended more on the level of the 1930's film.. I am thinking the naked baby in the wilderness would not have bothered you quite as much (especially after reading your comment about movies that deal with sacrifice) But I have to say that even though an alternative ending could have been the "stronger" way to go.. I am glad for the way this one ended anyway. Not saying it should ALWAYS be a happy end in every movie.. but for me.. this one ended the way I would want it too.

 

Oh.. and also wanted to say I did not mean to underplay the "elements" they were up against in this story.. while I do agree that the "man vs the desert" is a big issue they are fighting.. to me.. it was still the "bad guy doing the right thing" that is the main point of the story.

 

Was it too much with Cordelia? Yeah, probably

 

Yeah.. definitely. It was supposed to be a slap.. and she COULD have been made to be offensive for her shallow and self absorbed ideas.. instead she came off (to me) like some sort of Mayberry RFD character from the Andy Griffith Show. She was too silly and fluffy to be as offensive as she was supposed to appear.. at least to me. Not saying she ruined the movie for me.. just saying I wish her "stupidity" had been more "seriously" portrayed.. instead of the way she came off.

 

A good example of a "silly" character being use more effectively as a commentary on society is in the movie The Patriot (with Mel Gibson) At least to me anyway.. ha. And it is something the QT and I always laugh over when we watch it. A bunch of British officers and their families are out on the lawn having a party enjoying themselves and a bunch of colonial militia men blow up a ship out in the harbor.

 

And from a distance it is quite a sight to behold.. and one of the British ladies (in all her powdered wig finery) giggles with glee in her ignorance "Ah.. fireworks!"

 

(OH... If you could ONLY hear the QT use his best falsetto voice and mimic her whenever we see ANY sort of explosion on TV or in a movie.. ha. TOO funny.. but I digress)

 

Anyway.. THAT to me is a much better way to play a "dopey" ignorant "better than you" sort of lady.. in a serious film. I may just be too harsh on Cordelia, but Sgt Rutledge was just such a powerful story and SO strong a movie.. and she was too likably cute to offend me. I wanted to look down on her for her wrong opinions and all I could do was laugh at her silliness instead. I don't know if that make any sense at all.. ha. But likely not.. I am (afterall) an old worn out woman and I am much in need of my long winter's nap.. ha. so I am likely starting to babble a bit.. (wouldn't be the first time.. HA)

 

RE: Flight of Phoenix

 

I hope you get the chance to watch it. It is a very interesting character study. It is one of the QT's favorite "boring" movies (as you and he both call them.. ha) That is "boring" meaning. you have to sit and watch it and THINK about it and a lot of time there is not a lot of "action" but it is more about the dialogue and how the characters interact. But he would be the first to tell you the MOVIE is anything but boring. We pull it out and watch it once a year or so.. it is a bit long (or maybe it just SEEMS that way.. ha) but it is a good way to spend a quiet afternoon if you want a nice "meatier" story to chew on a bit. (OH poor Ernest Borgine.. ha. That has to be just about my most favorite role ever for him by the way)

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Jan 6, 2011 10:53 PM

[Western Movie Rambles]

Don't ya just hate it when he does that, the little smarty pants.. ha.

[Western Movie Rambles]

OH my darlin' Miss Maven!!!!!!! Welcome back out west, little gal!! I agree w/ every word!!

[Western Movie Rambles]

HIYA Mr. Movieman!!! Thanks so much for bringing an extra treat to the New Year.. what a great commentary on the three men and their "mission". (that is a great way to put it, by the way)

 

My favorite part of your post:

 

> {quote:title=movieman1957 wrote:}{quote}

> Before they know what they are called into Pedro comes to help the woman and he removes his hat and somehow feels that he is coming someplace holy. Even when Robert and William come to the wagon they not only remove their hats but their guns. At the funeral there is prayer and the singing of a hymn. These are not the same men we met at the credits. Only once are we reminded blatantly of their past and that is when they argue in the wagon and guns are drawn. We see Pedro shake a rattle to quiet the baby in the left hand with his gun in the right. At that point though William has his revelation that there is more to this than just a rescue. Here then the Christmas story comes to the front in all force. At the wagon is also where the film comes to a stop.

 

I love how they revere that mother... and how the baby just totally takes over their whole purpose for being out there in that desert. In many ways.. it sort of reminds me of the thoughts I had on 3Bad Men when I said it was as if they had been SENT to help.. but I don't recall any shots of them all riding out of the sun in 3G.. like I did in that movie. (Oh I still get chills when I think of that shot in w/ Bull and the boys...)

 

> Forgive my being long winded. If you're still here in this line, thanks.

 

NOT long winded.. well worded, instead!! (oopps... I think Jackie may have said something like that already.. ha.. but anyway.. I enjoyed your post very much!! Thanks for raising the bar on our chat sir!!

 

PS: REY... will pray for a good resolution for you on your job situation. Best Wishes.

[Western Movie Rambles]

Check your inbox, Pirate Dude!! Special orders don't upset us! Ha.

[Western Movie Rambles]

A VERY happy New Year to all you Western Ramblersl!!

 

Time to celebrate!!! Cupcakes for everybody!!!!!!!!

 

 

May your New Year's Eve be a safe and happy one and may God bless you, dear friends, with health and happiness in the coming year!!

[Western Movie Rambles]

Helloooooooo Perly.. ha ha HA!!

 

New Year's Day is on the way! That means sauerkraut!

 

You mean to tell me that you only eat sauerkraut on New years???? yeah right.. Sheesh.. you must get AWFULLY hungry the rest of the year since that and sawdust are all you will EAT!! (ha)

 

For example, Jackie's The Heiress

 

I am VERY interested to hear what you have to say about that one. I absolutely LOVE that film.. but NOT because it is all that "chick-flickish" as you might think. In fact.. although I do confess there IS a certain level of "chick-ish-ness" to it.. I think you will be happy to see the DARK side of the "chick" ha. It is FAR from the "sweet romance" movie that "chickish" films usually imply. I will look forward to your comments for sure.

 

I like the three leading male characters in 3 Bad Men much more than 3 Godfathers. The former is a film that I think is one of the best westerns of all. Each features the ultimate sacrifice but the one just resonates so much more with me. 3 Godfathers is more of a "will power" film, ala The Lost Patrol, versus 3 Bad Men, which is a film about battling human elements more so than nature's elements

 

3Bad Men would be a good contrast to 3 Godfathers (in terms of the differences between the two movies with regard to the REASON for their change in heart) but in some ways they are very similar in theme as well.. basically in both stories someone comes along that leads three men (on the wrong side of the law) to completely change their motivation and plans to do wrong.. and leads them to do what is (dare I say it?) right and good instead. In that way both stories are very similar... but it is HOW that all unfolds that makes them different. I don't quite view 3G as a man against the elements story as much as you do.. because to me the real conflict still remains in the doing what is right in spite of the plans they once had NOT to) But once they MADE the decision (and the promise) to care for the person in need... then they had to battle some outside force (in 3 Bad Men it was that rotten Layne and his henchmen... in 3 G it was both the desert AND the posse) in order to see things through as they had promised.

 

At any rate.. I do see the differences you are bringing up.. but I also see a lot of similarity.

 

Then they run into Mildred Natwick and everything changes. The film goes off in a different direction. Yeah, I knew that direction was coming, but the results were unsatisfying to me. I wish there was more tension and drama between the men over the baby. Instead, we just fall into a "cute" story. That just doesn't do much for me. The film was a tease, for me

 

SPOILER ALERT:

 

I have been thinking on the whole "cute" factor thing and I wonder if (maybe) your biggest issues with the movie lie in that whole bit just after Mildred's character dies and they are trying to figure out what to do next. At least that is how it might be sounding if I am reading you right.

 

Because the way they try to figure out how to diaper and feed that baby IS the "cute part" for sure. (but I would submit it is also very moving the way these three guys sort of melt under the spell of the baby and how innocent it is.. and I also love how much respect they have for Mildred and how she LOVED her baby even before it was born. (OH.. and PS: speaking as an "old mother" ha.. I only USED to think she looked too old to have a baby.. and then I had the kidling when I was almost 40.. ha.. so "age" is a relative thing when it comes to motherhood, I guess. HA.

 

Anyway.. I guess what I am saying is that there WAS a whole other layer beneath all the cute that to me was a lot deeper than a pink little baby bottom and a few giggles. But I agree, that part of the story does sort of change the tone for things to come... but really if you have issues with CUTE.. they should start and pretty much END at the part of the movie because ONCE they decide where to go and what to do from there.. the cuteness sort of goes right out the window.

 

I mean.. really.. WHAT can be "cute" about some guy (still a kid really) dying a slow and VERY painful death due to his gunshot wound? UGH.. when he doesn't want to drink the water (even though he is DYING) because he won't take water away from the baby.. and how he when his end is near.. he lays there with the Duke's hat as his only shade against the hot sun beating down.. and he is praying (much like he did as a child.. "God bless mom and pop, and make me a good boy") etc.. OH me.. very moving.

 

And when Pedro gets injured and ends up committing suicide to avoid capture. Nothing cute there, either.

 

And then you have Wayne and his whole struggle both with the desert.. AND with God (at least that seemed to be the way it was to me) as he is trying to finish what they started and it seems EVERYTHING (and everyone except the baby) is against him. When he throws the Bible and yells back at God.... not much cute about it at all.

 

Now I do confess it DOES get more "jovial' at the end... when the trial is over and the Duke gets his sentence... but really overall... despite the wagon wheel grease moments and the "happier" ending.. this film is not so cute as it may seem.

 

So one of the things I thought of (as I have considered what you said about the "cute" being too much) is that this is one of those occasional Fordie "mixed" movie moments... sort of like some of the issues I had w/ Sgt Rutledge. I do not know if you recall my biggest issue with that particular film or not.. but I felt very "confused" by some of the different directions it took, and I do confess that sometimes in a few of his films, Ford DOES go too far one way or the other when adding a lighter moment to a serious story. And that is NOT always a bad way to go.. because in the MIDST of a dark and somber story filled with heavy themes and emotions it CAN be good to add a little humor or a touching "tender" moment.. even a CUTE moment.. ha.. but in a few of his films.. and I think it is safe to say that 3G would be one of them.. I think sometimes he goes a bit HEAVY on the "Light" (if that makes sense, ha) And it can make for a bit of confusion sometimes. Though truthfully.. to me.. at least in this film.. it is not enough to ruin the entire story.

 

I don't know if I am explaining it exactly right, but I DO remember thinking something similar to what I am saying here (about sometimes getting mixed messages) when I was feeling some frustration about how "fluffy" some of the characters were in Sgt R. (OH me.. those society ladies at the trial were just TOO comical.. and they just did not seem to fit with the rest of the story. I know WHY they were there.. and I even agree with some of the things that were said that they were portrayed as being so "fluffy and silly" as maybe some sort of commentary about people who think they are "upper class" etc.. but to me.. they were OVERdone.) And maybe your feeling that the "cute factor" with the baby was too over the top is a similar issue... maybe....

 

Or then again.. ha.. Maybe you just don't like CUTE BABIES for crying out loud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (ha) :p

 

Oh, for goodness sake

 

Ha.. you did not even give me a chance to try!! (is that because you know I stink at guessing?? ha.. or is it because I picked the same favorite for number one as YOU did!!! )

 

1. The Shop Around the Corner

2. Meet John Doe

 

I don't know QUITE what to make of it.. ha. I have only seen 6 or 7 movies out of the ones you listed.. but number one and number two are probably the very same ones I would have picked as well!!!!!!!!!!!! (yikes.. how did THAT happen????? ha) And then again out of the ones you listed I would probably list 3G at number 3... but I am not sure.. it could be neck and neck for number 2 w/ MJD.. I have not seen that one in a while so it MAY be I am remembering it more fondly.. I would have to see it again to be sure. ha. OH what is the world coming to.. we BOTH picked TSAC as our fave out of you list... what's next?? You are going to tell me you ate some chunky vegetable soup and LIKED it.. (Oh.. I can't even THINK about it.... the world will stop spinning on its axis and fly right off into space.!!) Perish the thought.. ha.

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Dec 29, 2010 10:41 PM

[Western Movie Rambles]

Howdy back at ya, Mr. Sawdust and Sauerkraut, HA.

 

It's when I have the high expectations before a viewing that can cause a problem

 

Well... as much as it PAINS me to agree with you.. ha.. I do confess that I hate when that happens as well. To me the BEST way to watch then is to try NOT to have any preconceived expectations at all.. but that would mean finding a film you never heard of and have NO idea what it is about before you start watching.. ha.. And in this day and age that is getting harder and harder to do. (ha) So I do know what you mean about having a "preconceived" opinion on what it might be like as I usually know SOMETHING about a LOT of the films I see (generally speaking) before I watch them. Every now and then, though it is nice to find something unexpected that I never HEARD of before and see what it is about. ( And I do confess that is easier for someone like ME who has LESS classic film knowledge than most folks around here... so once in a while, I hit paydirt)

 

was pleasantly surprised by how the film starts. I was enjoying it. Loved the harshness of it all

 

Harsh is a good way to describe it... there WAS a lot of "harsh" going on w/ all the cute.. so I can see why you might like parts of the movie more than others. And that again is why I think you should try to catch that other version of this story..because (in my old creaky worn out memory anyway) I recall it being even MORE harsh.. a lot more 'gritty" too. The 3 men are quite a bit different from the ones in this story as well.. the characters are less "westerny" too.. if I recall. Anyway.. you should try to find it sometime... (I am usually SO lousy at pinning you down... maybe just ONCE in my life I will have pegged a movie for you the RIGHT way, ha... your reaction to Hell's Hinges STILL throws me for a loop EVERYTIME I think about it.. go figure..ha)

 

Bah, humbug! I don't go for that kind of "cuteness." It's not just in this film, it's across the board

 

OH for pity's sake.. WHO in their right mind doesn't like cute babies??????????????? (oh wait.. I think I answered my own question... it is that whole 'right mind' issue, isn't it???)

 

I usually do

 

Oh great.. you are likely keeping a running tab on how many TYPOS I make in a single POST.. next thing I will see a Frank Grimes top 25 list of Rohanaka's most misspelled words. And ps: I usually read what YOU write too my DEAR friend.. no matter how wrong-headed you are being... KIDDING... only kidding.. (or am I??? HA!!!! you knew I had to say that didn't you????) :-)

 

Take the challenge! Rank them in the order of my liking. Let's see how well you know my tastes

 

Gulp.. well THEN I would have to confess that I have only seen a HANDFUL of the movies on it.. ha. I will go back and check out what ones I've seen.. and then I will have to see what I can find out about the ones I HAVEN'T seen.. and I will get back to you on it. (and PS.. of the ones on your list.. for me personally.. hmmm... I'd have to rank Shop Around the Corner at least NEAR the top if not AT the top.. but I am not sure YOU would rank it that high) As we have all discovered time and time again.. ha.. I am LOUSY at "pegging" you. ha. (did I mention I am STILL reeling over how much you hated Hell's Hinges?????????????????????? Ha)

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Dec 29, 2010 3:09 PM

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}

> Three hours of rain dripping off of someone's hat and you love it. Bank robbers in the old west bringing up a baby in a sandstorm and The Civil War are "boring" or "too long".

 

 

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. (I got nuthin' else to add.. I just needed a good chuckle!! Thanks Jackie!!)

[Western Movie Rambles]

Well.. at least you gave it (sort of) a fair chance.. going into with that whole I expected my not liking the film, so my expectations were pretty much met DOES sort of set a tone for a movie that may eliminate the word "fair" a bit.. ha. But I appreciate the fact that you still watched it even THOUGH you thought you would not like it much.

 

But that baby... not cute???? OH good grief....you need to have your "cute-o-meter" checked.. ha. The CUTE part was how "clumsy and inept and awkward" the three men were at caring for him. I LOVED when they put the wagon wheel grease on his poor little behind. ha. The look on the Duke's face is priceless. And I also love how quickly they take ownership of him. Pretty much as with ANY baby.. the minute you come in contact with them... it becomes all about them and NOTHING else (even getting away from an armed possee) takes priority.

 

Anyway.. I think it is fair enough that you watched it.. so I won't torture you TOO much with an opposing opinion. ha. I don't know if you caught a comment I made to Miss G a few days back but I imagine you would MUCH more enjoy an earlier version of this story (a 1930's film) that has Walter Brennen in it (as one of the Godfathers) it is a bit more your style.. (it's a lot darker and the end is a lot more up your alley, so to speak) And I bet you'd even like the BABY more.. ha. (you knew I had to get at least ONE more slap in at you for that didn't you?? ha)

 

So of your more recent films watched.. which one DID you like the most???? (Let me guess.. The Enchanted Cottage... Ha )

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Dec 29, 2010 2:09 PM

[Western Movie Rambles]

You hated it and the ending stunk because it was happy-ish.. (if you can call John Wayne getting sent off to prison at the end HAPPY, ha) and the only good part was that it is OVER now... (how close am I???) ha

 

(but gee.. you at LEAST gotta admit.. that little Robert William Pedro was AWFULLY cute!!)

[Western Movie Rambles]

The last 15 films I've watched (since Diary of a Lost Girl)

 

3 Godfathers

Les Vampires

The Enchanted Cottage

Christmas in Connecticut

Holiday Affair

Design for Living

Trouble in Paradise

El Dorado

The Shop Around the Corner (revisit)

Meet John Doe (revisit)

Love Me Tonight

The World Moves On

The Crimson Kimono

Amelie

The Sun Also Rises

 

Now that's quite a LIST, there fella.. and of course you put 3 G there at the top because it was your MOST favorite... HA! (don't worry.. I already KNOW what you are going to say.. ha)

[William Penn Adair "Will" Rogers - Real Cowboy]

HI Miss G.. just wanted to say thanks again for the heads up on Will's big night. And thanks to TCM, too for showcasing Mr. Rogers as well. I only caught the first two films, but really enjoyed getting to see them.

 

Now I do confess that I found Connecticut Yankee a bit "silly' but I mean that in a fun way, ha. It was QUITE silly near the end w/ all the modern machinery coming in to save the day, ha... but again.. it was fun (sort of in a "Keystone Kop-ish" kinda way.) And you are right.. OH that Myrna.. she was LOVELY (even if she was playing "rotten" ha.)

 

I absolutely LOVED Dr. Bull. I am SO glad to have gotten to see that one. It was the one film they showed last night that had been on my wannasee list for a while so I was very glad to have the opportunity. What a great story.. and what a terrific character for Rogers. I have not really seen his films (that I can recall) before but was just more familiar with his "persona" through his many witticisms and "ropin'" routines. Dr. Bull fit right in perfectly w/ the mental picture I have had of him based on the few things I knew about him. He was just terrific.. full of "homespun" humor with such a "common sense" manner of speaking. I really enjoyed this film very much.

 

I know I will sound like a whiner (ha) but there is just ONE more film I wish they had shown last night.. ha. I would have LOVED to been able to catch Judge Priest along w/ the other movies, but alas I was out of luck.I am still going to keep an eye out for it, though as that one has been on my "wanna see" radar for about as long as Dr Bull. Oddly enough I have SEEN parts of the film but the sound was NOT working. It was the "wackiest thing". I was "surfing" on the TV a while back and THERE was Will Rogers on The ARTS channel. They showed that film at least two different times this past month (that I noticed) and I watched it for several minutes both times (and was able to figure out that it was JP, but dagnabbit.. there was NO sound whatsoever both times it aired.

 

At first I thought it was a silent film (but I mean REALLY silent.. with NO music even) but then as I watched I realized there weren't even any little cards popping up on the screen in the midst of the conversation to show the dialogue so I THINK there was SUPPOSED to be sound with it and it was just not working. Anyway.. I was disappointed to say the least, because I could SEE what they were doing... but had NO idea what they were saying. (my lip reading skills need improvement, I guess, ha) I will keep watching out for that one. Maybe they will show it again on that channel and will get the sound fixed with it next time. (or better yet.. HINT, HINT... maybe TCM will show it for us sometime!!)

 

At any rate.. thanks again, little young'un for the reminder regarding last night.. here is your paycheck my little secretary. With all the bad weather you've been having, I thought maybe some warm brownies would be nice.. fresh out of the oven, just for you, dear girl. Grab a cup of tea and stay cozy, kiddo.

 

[Western Movie Rambles]

Hello Monsieur Pirate

 

Woo Hoo.. and Yee Haw.. you are going for The Searchers!! I will be very interested in hearing your thoughts on that one. We had a truly enjoyable and quite lengthy chat on that one back some time ago on here (if you can find it, it is worth the read if you are interested in getting everyone's thoughts on the film) but then again.. ha... we never seem to tire of chatting on it so I am sure we will find plenty more to say when you are ready. ha.

 

I consider you both as experts on all things relating to the Duke

 

Well that's a mighty fine complement, sir.. and one that is well deserved as far as Miss G is concerned, I am sure. But OH me.. ha.. I am pretty much only an expert on.. well.. hmmm... (uh.. nuttin' honey) HA. But I DO know what I like and enjoy about a film or a character.. or a film star(usually) and for whatever reason (many reason I am sure I have already listed here in the not too distant past, ha) I do enjoy the Duke and his films very much.

 

As for: I also have McClintock on the DVR, should I see it?

 

Well.. I agree w/ what has already been said, ha. Depend's on who you ask. HA. I thoroughly enjoy this movie.. it is very entertaining. But to be honest.. if you are wanting a deeper appreciation for westerns (or John Wayne in general) it might be one that you wait on a bit before you watch (and view some of his other films first. And you have heard right.. ha. A certain GREY person really did NOT enjoy it much at all when he FINALLY watched it.. but then.. he was just being a STICK in the mud.. ha. (yes. all puns intended) HA.

 

[Western Movie Rambles]

Well, it is set in East Germany

 

Well of COURSE it is.. oh that sneaky Shiftless Dude.. always trying to get the upper hand..

[Western Movie Rambles]

FXReyman says:

 

Sir Francis doesn't like most films unless there is a German slant to it or it has a film noir feeling to it

 

To which the GREY Guy replies:

 

Precisely

 

Thus Rohanaka inquires:

 

And your all time favorite movie: POP Secret (Oh.. I mean TOP Secret) fits into either of those categories exactly how????????????????????

[Deleted Holiday Thread]

Jack Favell says it best.. I love TCM.

 

I truly do enjoy the many programs they offer and appreciate the fact that it is a rare treat to find a channel so devoted to the appreciation of classic film. I never have understood those who only want to complain because to me, one of the many nice things that can be said for this channel is that they offer a little something for everyone. From Westerns, to Silents, War Movies, to Comedy. Romance and Action, Drama, Suspense... films from the EARLY silent era all the way up to more recent fare: it is all there 24 hours a day at our fingertips. Surely there is something POSITVE to be said for that.

 

And the even NICER part (to me) is that it offers a chance for younger generations to learn what film was like "back in the day" and to appreciate that there is an entire treasure trove of classic films, actors, directors and film makers they may never have the chance to discover (if not for the likes of stations like TCM).

 

So having said that (though at my advanced age, I certainly could not be considered part of the "younger generation, ha) I will just add: "Thanks TCM" for give ME the chance to learn more about my own favorites.. and better yet.. discover MANY new favorites as well.

 

And to Renee: I want to thank you for your efforts in trying to recover the lost thread. I know there is a lot to keep track of here. And I am sure accidents do happen as we are all human. So we appreciate your effort to resolve the situation.

 

And may I also add my own sympathies to you (among the others) in the loss of your father. It is never easy to go through the loss of a loved one, but I am sure it is especially difficult during the holiday season. I pray for God's comfort to you and your family at this sad time and always.

[Western Movie Rambles]

Hi there, Mr. Pirate Dude..

 

Glad to hear you gave True Grit a try. I have to confess old Rooster is not for everyone. Personally I love that movie (and Wayne's character) a lot. but I also admit TG is not my most fave Duke film OR role.

 

I agree with the Goddess that he is not his "usual" self in that role.. more of a "persona' rather than a person. But I will add he is still very much what a lot of people THINK he was like (as an actor) when he was playing Cogburn. He did have a lot "meatier" roles in many other films, as she said.. but GEE there is just something so out and out FUN about TG that I always enjoy watching it.

 

And I LOVE to quote him in that movie.. about the rat writ.. ha. and the "I aim to kill you in one minute.. or see you hang.. etc etc.. which'll it be?" ha. He got all the really GOOD lines, ha. Maybe I like him for the "peacmaker-ish" tone he takes, I guess. :-)

 

Anyway.. I am glad you gave it a try.. and you may be right.. it may continue to grow on you. It is not one of those stories that has to be "thoughtful" and "thought of" in order to enjoy it (like some of the deeper minded Westerns we often discuss on this thread. So if you try not to view it from that perspective, it tends to look a little better. Mostly it is just for fun. And to quote Dr Seuss.. ha.. Fun is good!

 

And you are right.. That Maddy IS something, isn't she??? I have to confess I have a "love/hate" thing going on with her.. she wears old PRETTY quick with that mouth of hers so she DOES usually get on my nerves (about the time they are in the woods and she is trying to come up w/ ideas for them to catch Cheney) But I LOVE the "formal" exchanges she has when she is talking business (like when she was dealing w/ Strother Martin and also dealing w/ Cogburn too) the language she uses is priceless. ha. VERY "uppity" for such a "gritty gal" And you bring up a good point that she IS Gritty. I love when she is crossing that river (because they won't let her on the ferry) and Rooster sees her and starts laughing and says "She reminds me of me" It's one of my favorite lines.

 

Well.. I hope you will keep on moseying along in here w/ your thoughts and comments sir. I am loving seeing a fresh perspective on all these old faves, here. I am w/ April.. hope to hear from you sometime on all THREE of the films she mentioned to you. (especially The Searchers) If True Grit is a bit lacking in terms of "meat".. those three films will REALLY give you something to sink your teeth into, sir.

[Western Movie Rambles]

I just noticed this moment in Rio Grande

 

Good eye, little darlin'. Another excellent example. He really did seem to have a knack for showing emotion that way.. he even carries it further than just "emotion". You can often just read his entire train of thought... from start to finish.