rohanaka

Hello there Ms Favell.. I missed Three Godfathers and The Sons of Katie Elder Bummer, kid. I know those were the two you were wanting. But I hope you get the chance to catch them soon. (especially TSOKE) Neither of those would be my most fave Dukes, but I do enjoy them both very much. As for my own Duke Day watching.. well.. I missed pretty much everything leading up to the Searchers (because I was gone all morning) but I DID enjoy getting to see that one again. I still think given a choice between that and TMWSLV, I lean more toward The Searchers.. but maybe ONLY just.. (it really is pretty neck and neck as to which is my favorite) But I love that whole "Let's go home, Debbie" thing so much at the end.. sob, sniff, sigh. (ha) PS: Fredb.. RE: the 'hat toss" I remember thinking (in that part of the Searchers yesterday) that Ward likely did it on impulse and they kept it in just because it seemed like the very thing he SHOULD do, ha) And regarding 3G and TSOKE, well do not feel bad, because I did not get to see those two the way I wanted to EITHER. I caught the beginning of the FIRST one and the end of the other!! ha. I was just settling in to watch 3G and a knock came on the door.. and our neighbors had come over bringing a tray of.. COOKIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (no, I am NOT kidding!! ha.. in the midst of my OWN holiday food preparations I am showered with even MORE delectable goodies. ha. And NO Mr. Grimes.. it was not a rescue call.. ha. I know how you like to disparage my cooking.) ha. At any rate.. they stayed for almost an hour and a half so I missed MOST of 3G even though it was on right in front of me because we were gabbing, and our kids were romping around all over the house, etc, etc, etc. Alas. But it was nice to catch up w/ the neighbors and visit a while, even though I missed the movie, but as a SIDE note, I will add that I did not get to enjoy their visit as much as I would have otherwise, because my mind was preoccupied with my housekeeping skills (or obvious lack thereof, ha) because I still had all the sleepover STUFF out in the living room (sleeping bags, pillows, overnight bags, etc) because when we got home yesterday from our party and the errands and shopping, etc.. I pretty much just dumped it all on the floor and had yet to get it put away.. and THEN of course there was cooking and baking going on so the kitchen was a cluttered mess too.. sigh..WHY can't people ever show up unannounced at my house when it is CLEAN??????????????? But I digress.. Anyway.. I missed most of the beginning parts of TSOKE because after the neighbors left I was so guilt ridden about the condition of my living room that I had to stop and get all that stuff put away, and then get after the kidling to pick up the toy disaster in her room that she and the neighbor kid created... blah blah blah.. so I missed everything leading up to poor Earl Holliman's character.. well. I won't spoil it for you Jackie, since you have not seen it yet... but suffice to say I did not get to see much of the story unitl avter THAT part, so I pretty much only got to see the end of the movie. Alas. But HEY.. on the positive side.. I DID catch most of True Grit (though I gasp.. true confession.. ha.. I fell asleep near the end because I am an old woman and I only got a minute amount of sleep Tues night at that sleepover w/ the scouts.. and well. it was comfy on the couch,etc, etc, etc. ha) I know.. I am so pathetic, ha. So anyway.. due to a much needed nap, I also missed Rio Bravo all together, (thankfully that is one I have on DVD and have seen MANY times, so I don't feel so bad, ha) But then I managed to wake up about half way through McLintock.. and I watched Big Jake.. and by then.. ha. it was getting late.. but OH my golly.. I just kept on going (because I love that movie.. OH that dirty rotten (and not nearly so pretty as Paladin) Richard Boone, ha. Though I did take a break in the middle of the movie to try and get on here for a while (just wanted to check in and see what was going on.. but my computer locked up.. so I decided that must have been a sign that I need to keep watching the Duke.. so I went back to Big Jake... ha. (Ok.. I know this is quite the "rambling" ramble.. but stick with me kiddo.. I AM getting to a point here.. I PROMISE!!) ha. So.. after making it all the way to the WEE hours to see the end of Big Jake (because I had that whole 3+ hour refresher nap on the couch in the early part of the evening, ha so I was at least able to keep one eye open still) It was getting VERY late, but I stayed up JUST a little longer because.. the ONE Duke movie that was on yesterday.. the very one that I had NEVER seen... (and the reason I decided to go ahead and stay up instead of being smart enough to go on to bed.. ha) was coming on next. And though I can't say it was a GREAT movie.. and although I am a bit "bleary eyed" today (again) for having stayed up so RIDICULOUSLY late, ha.. I am glad to have caught it, because I did enjoy getting so see ...(drum roll please) The Man from Monterey. What a fun little "gem" among his early stepping stone movies. ha. And I have to say that John Wayne about as fresh-faced and sweet as ever I had seen him (save maybe The Big Trail) . He had a LONNNNNNNNG way to go to get to the level of acting we have come to know and appreciate in him, (he was still learning and working on how to carry a conversation "naturally" instead of just read lines, etc. But even so.. he was very good w/ the facial expressions and reactions that we've come to really appreciate from him) At any rate, I will say he was more like "The Man who WOULD be Duke" in this movie.. ha, than the "DUKE" we have come to know and love. In fact.. he was not even "the DUKE" at all. His HORSE was!! (Spoiler alert, for those who have not seen the movie,, ha.. Duke the wonder horse saves the day, Yee-haw!!) ) Anyway.. to be honest.. it was NOT that great a movie.. ha. Think.. early "cowboy" style western. I call them "popcorn" movies. (I imagine 12 year old boys sitting in the movie theater back in the 1930's just munching down on their popcorn and having the time of their lives, but not too many other folks taking it all very seriously) And to be honest, because it WAS not much of a movie, the main reason I kept watching (because even despite my power nap, ha... I was getting pretty droopy by that late hour) was not even for John Wayne.. it was for Luis Alberni. I had to go look him up.. I sort of recognized his face.. (though after I looked him up, I don't know why) but OH my golly.. Jackie.. he belongs in your "squirrely cherub" thread. TOO funny.. a perfect comic side kick ("I am Felipe Guadalupe Constacio, Delgado Santa Cruz de la Venrranca, at your service." ha..) Also enjoyed getting see Francis Ford (woo hoo) he had a pretty sizable role too. (he even got to play the bad guy!) Really.. the character actors in this movie stole the show. (that.. and of course. ha.. Duke the wonder horse! ha) So there you have it.. ha. A complete history of my "Duke Day Bake-athon" celebration. ha. Thanks TCM for a fun time.. (even if I missed some of it.. I was happy to share my baking day/visit w/ the neighbors/housecleaning/ and even my power nap (ha) with my favorite actor. Now if I could ONLY get some volunteers to come over and help me finish cleaning up that kitchen.... there's a cookie or two (or even three) in it for you... come on.. you know you want to.. mopping my kitchen floor is a small price to pay for some peppermint sugar cookies, now isn't it??????????? Edited by: rohanaka on Dec 23, 2010 1:02 PM

OH Ms Favell what a PERFECT way to kick off Duke Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the TERRIFIC pics, little darlin'!! I think that first one is my MOST fave of all!! TOO cute!! I did not get a chance to even START watching until now as I have been VERY busy all morning (following a very LATE night w/ the scout troop Christmas/slumber party we had at church last night.. ha. OH my golly.. 20+ little girls, way TOO much sugar.. and a complete and utter disregard for the phrase "Lights out!" HA. More fun than we likely will ever need to have again.. ha.. at least until this time next year. Then I had a big clean up job for most of the morning (did I mention there was WAY too much fun from the party? ha) followed by errands.. and NOW I am finally back home and HAPPY to have my TV tuned in to TCM for SURE. I have been looking forward to the big Duke Day/Holiday Bake Off for days!! And now it is finally here!! Look.. it's so exciting.. Even Wardie Bond is happy.. ha. In the meantime.. the oven is preheating.. and the cookies will be a baking soon.. In fact I already got one batch ready... COOKIES FOR EVERYBODY!! ha. (And don't worry.. if we run out.. we'll just make more!! ha) PS: Miss Maven.. sorry you are missing out.. but we will save some cookies for you, little missy. PS: April: My "official guess" for the Kitty name.. Tom Doniphan. (and if the other one you get is a girl, you could call her Hallie!) ha. I am on the edge of my seat, little gal!! WhatEVER will you call this sweet little bundle?? ha. Congrats, dear girl. I am very happy to hear of your new addition!!

WHAT??? Did I miss it??? Has the special delivery already been delivered??????? Woo hoo!! (achoo.. pardon my allergic sneeze of happiness!! ha) Congrats, Little Missy!! Details.. I need details!! :-) This calls for a celebration!!! Ha.. Cat Herders.. who'da thunk it???? ha. (Here's a scene from my fave cat herder western of all time: Cat of the West) HA! Edited by: rohanaka on Dec 21, 2010 4:18 PM

Woo hoo!! I have my TV remote control ready and my baking supplies all set to go!! ( ha)

Hello, my long lost sister! How have you been Busy!!! (ugh.. I hate that word sometimes) Chasing myself is the more appropriate way to say it, ha. My organization skills have been.. well.. depleted I guess. ha. I need a tune up! ha. Maybe I can get myself caught up here when I have a few days off the next couple of weeks. And I have been missing our chats here for sure!!! Nice to be gabbing w/ you, my sister! :-) It never occurred to me that love and affection could be divided, but that really feels so right in Dr. Sloper - he compartmentalizes everything, so it's only fair that his feeling for Catherine would be so. If you could ask him, even he would say, "Of course, I love Catherine, but...does she have to simper so? Why can she not be more .....clever?" There is always a proviso in his love, or a hesitation. It's love with strings attached. The opposite of unconditional love - there is always a reservation on his part. Even though she doesn't know it, she still feels it in her heart. It's devastating It is devastating and you have described him perfectly. There is a difference between loving someone and showing them you love them. (that is where the affection comes in) And he clearly had no real capacity to act in any loving way toward her w/ out dragging all his "issues" with her along for the ride (thereby destroying whatever chance he might have had to show her the love he felt) It is a very vicious cycle that once started can be very hard to break. wonder what would have been the best thing for him to do? He could no more change himself than a leopard change his spots. How could he change his very thoughts? Accept her for what she was.... Again, I come back to the idea that for him to accept her, he would have to reject his wife's memory. He doesn't have room for both in his soul, they are at odds with each other, that memory and Catherine, and there is so little room inside him. I think you have it. He truly seemed incapable of separating the two.. in HIS mind, he could not love her (w/ all her "faults" ) and still be true to the perfect ideal he had created of his wife. Very sad. Maybe this is more key - it is that Catherine is not clever enough to make a good decision? He does feel responsible, and even protective, but is that really a slap in the face? Oh, the questions brought up when you start digging into his nature! I think he did not believe she was capable of any sort of adult decision making whatsover. I imagine he did not even think her capable of understanding real love (like he had with his wife) so therefore it was his duty to protect her along with his money and good name) from her own foolishness. And so he did not take her affection for Morris seriously. Worse still, I don't think he felt any other man could ever see her as worthy to be loved in a romantic way as well, because she was so "obviously inferior" (at least in his mind) So anyone who WOULD profess love for her would have likely been met with the worst sort of skepticism. And of course when someone so OBVIOUSLY in need of money as Morris showed up, her father just made up his mind based on all the "facts" he thought he already knew. (and he likely would have still thought them no matter if Morris had been a stand up guy or not) Because to him.. NO ONE could possibly love her and so if they were after her.. it was really HIS money and name they were after instead. I think he saw her as this dull and uninteresting replacement for the wife he had loved and lost. And he loved her because she was his daughter, but had NO real belief in her ability to do more than just while away her time with her embroidery. And so he kept her (in his mind) right there.. just stitching away. I imagine he even likely encouraged her in it when she was younger. She was good at it, and it kept her busy so he did not have to interact with her. He more or less created her failings.. by his low expectation of her and for her. And it really was sad because she was so eager to please him but he did not expect her to ever do anything that WOULD please him... so of course in his mind.. all she could do was fail. As far as he was concerned, her only true ability was to "embroider neatly" (UGH what a meanspirited moment THAT was when he told her that) I don't think he gave her any credit for having any thoughts of her own about anything. I imagine he even thought her incapable of understanding (and even possibly feeling) anything deeper than the unimportant "phrases" she stitched on her canvas. What a sad way to "pigeon hole" your own child. I DO feel some sympathy for him (in that I think he MIGHT have had a "I wish I could have loved her more" sort of change of heart near the end of his life) but OH what a lot of time he wasted in getting to that moment. Imagine how much different BOTH their lives could have been if he had only loved her for who she really was. It MIGHT have inspired her to overcome some of the many things he thought were failings in her character and personality (and perhaps even her appearance) but I don't think he was the sort of man who could let those barriers down.. perhaps he had been forced to be "perfect" as child too.. and he expected no less of his own child. (it really is a vicious cycle) The Pirate Dude says: Look at the way he reacts to her. ... He seems to me an absolutely loving father?Of course he might not have taken that tone if he knew what was coming I might need to rewatch it all again myself, but I never got that sense from his tone in that part of the story. To me it is like he DOES know what is coming and he is just waiting for the right moment to lower the boom so to speak. He gives Morris just enough rope to hang himself and then whammo. I could be wrong because it has been a while since I saw the film and I don't have the DVD either so I am only working off of memory.. but to me he does not seem so much a loving father toward her at that moment but rather (almost) duplicitous instead. As in.. he was going to show her the cruel side of things (by putting what he was sure was Morris's false love for her to the test) but it did not pan out exactly the way he planned.. at least not right away. At any rate.. it goes back to what I was saying w/ Jackie.. he had NO expectation that she could truly comprehend romantic love between a man and a woman.. and that anyone else could FEEL that sort of love for her.. so mostly like there was NO one who would have met w/ his approval to marry her in the end, I think. At least not anyone so "purty" as Morris. I am sort of skeptical about the thoughts you and Jackie were touching on w/ what IF she had married Morris.. would her father have EVENTUALLY come around to at least TOLERATE him (if not accept him)? I don't know. I think he would NOT have allowed his daughter to fall into poverty. (that would be a reflection on HIM if nothing else) but I do think he'd have also cared what happened to HER too.. somewhere under all that pride. It is a hard call.. but it is fun to speculate on stuff like that. Edited by: rohanaka on Dec 20, 2010 1:18 AM

HELLO little darlin'!! I have not had the chance to even take a peek in this thread until today.. and LOOK what I found!! (yeehaw) I just watched The Heiress again OH I do so love that movie. WHAT a story. What an ending!! (what a piece of work that DAD was) But then all of a sudden I read THIS: tried to look at it solely from Dr. Sloper's viewpoint Well you had me hooked for SURE with that line, kiddo. And I LOVE the new perspective you have given him. There is a LOT to think about for sure and I am still mulling over some of your thoughts. To me he always (always, always) was just so harsh and unforgiving that I found it very hard to come up with too much sympathy for him.. even as he lay dying and wishing for her to come to him. All I could think of then was he had reaped what he had sewn. But still.. it WAS pretty devastating to see her refuse him. And it absolutely tore me up thinking how hard her heart had become to end up w/ that as her final response to him. There was no turning back for her as a character once she'd allow herself to become him. Because in a way.. that is sort of how I always saw her after that.. which made me feel really good when I read this comment from you: I have always thought that she turned into her father - a man who is only about 45 or 50, still in his prime, but who has shut out any hope of loving or being loved because of a tragedy so very long ago... her tongue is wicked, just as her father's was in that moment of truth. Isn't it odd that they end the same way, even though she hates him to his core? It's ironic. It IS ironic and I think you have it exactly she right. She was not kidding when she said she had been taught by masters. The student had become the master now. VERY tragic. Still, you have given me a LOT to think on because having said all that I have.. I DO agree with you that the father did have love for her in his heart.. somewhere. Love yes.. but no real affection for her. So his love came out in a harsh and unfeeling tone. He was just so hardened by his own grief (at the loss of his wife) and his own self absorbed focus on what HE thought Catherine should be like that he had no capacity for truly showing her whatever love he had for her in his heart. I think he did want to protect HER as much as his money and name in preventing her from marrying Morris, but even that at best just played out like a criticism of her "foolishness" rather than an act of fatherly love. A very sad character indeed.. and I DO see how it could be easy to have sympathy for him in rethinking some of the motivations he may have had. Thanks for bringing all this up, little gal! PS: Mr Pirate!! I am w/ Jackie.. I would be interested in hearing your take on Olivia as well.. this is just about my fave film for her, for sure.

Hiya Mr. Movieman, sir!! Nice to see you too! I have to confess that 3G would not be at (or even necessarily near) my tippy top fave for either Ford or Wayne.. but I do love to watch it. (so I am sure I would rank it much higher than you did) I think for me it just boils down to the whole "three men and a baby" scenario.. especially three despardos and a baby. I guess I am just a softie that way... ha. OH that litlle Robert William Pedro.. ha. WHAT a cutie he was. PS I am looking forward to the Duke Day Film Fest/Bake Off this coming week that we talked about back in Westerns, Ha. I will be the one with the flour spattered shirt (because I am likely among the worlds messiest bakers, ha) and cookie dough on my breath (because I never CAN resist licking the spoon when I am baking, HA)

Thanks again for searching out and posting all the great pics, Mr. In Hollywood! I have not had a chance to look in here the last week or so.. I see I have a LOT of catching up to do, but OH these last few here are gorgeous!Breathtaking stuff, to be sure. Love the Oz ones, especially. :-)

Hellooooooo Mr. Grey! > {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote} > I'm not sure of what you speak about with Ford's directorial style and the close-ups. I was introduced to Ford on this board and I find his directing style to be highly unobtrusive. He's mostly a western painter. His visuals tend to be from a distance but his emotions are up close, and it's because he often uses gestures to express emotions. Ford won't have a character say, "I want you" or "I need you" or "I love you." There is a great fear to saying those words. So, instead, what Ford does is have the characters say those words with their gestures. They are wearing their words. > > I'd call Ford a subtle director. The most showy he will be is with the Monument Valley visuals. The rest of the time, he's creatively subtle. I consider him to be the most emotional director I've encountered. That's what has shocked me and impressed me with Ford. Oh my golly.. are you sure your name is Frank Grimes????????? That was so well said, my Grey friend. And (ugh) I hate to admit it but I agree with every word! I too have come to a much greater appreciation of Ford and his films from the many chats on this board and also from having the opportunity to view many of his films over the last couple of years (some I had never even heard of until I started hanging out here) I have a long way to go before I can even begin to reach the level of knowledge some folks have on this message board, but I truly do enjoy learning what I can about this man and his films. And another thing I really HATE having to admit (at least to YOU, ha) would be that one of the things I have come to discover about him is that many of his protagonists tend to lean more to the Grey side (as in not really completely BAD, or even completely GOOD, but perhaps a true mix of both, sometimes) In fact, it truly surprises me when I sit back and think on it how many of his characters would fit that description, so it is no wonder that you (O great Guru of all things Gray/Grey) are enjoying so many of his films, yourself. I must confess that I like that we are not always going to see his characters make a GOOD choice every time. But having said that, very often their situations DO tend to lean more to the black and white. And yet we are not so much told how to think from watching his films. He doesn't always tell us outright (or beat us over the head with a heavy moral lesson) what the right choice is, but more it seems to be understood what is the right choice for his characters to make. (and perhaps that part satisfies the "black and white" gal in ME, ha) And (ugh.. painful confession #3 for me) I find (at least sometimes) the most entertaining part (or maybe a better word is intriguing) is the journey those characters take to GET to those decisions...such as Ethan Edwards in the Searchers. OH my golly did he ever take his time coming around to the right choice.. and likely did not even MAKE the right choice until he was confronted with it face to face. But we all knew what we WANTED him to do long before he did it. And it made for a very intriguing tale to be sure. > And it was Ford's films that made me see how good an actor John Wayne was. I only thought of Wayne as someone who barked at people. Well, he does do this with Ford, but he silently speaks just as much. It's a remarkable meshing of the two. You know how much I love to see you saying that, ha, but then I have always enjoyed the Duke for as long as I can recall. But I agree that watching him in the many Fordies (especially) I have come to truly appreciate his (all to often overlooked) ability as an actor even more than before. Though I am likely the least knowledgeable person here regarding Ford, he seemed to have a way of bringing out the best in many of his actors, and Wayne certainly was no exception. > I haven't seen 3 Godfathers, so I can't help you with that one. Maybe I'll watch that one this week I TRIPLE dog dare ya. I L-O-V-E love that movie. Though I do confess it might not be TOTALLY up your alley, I would say that the Duke's character in this one fits all that I described earlier.. a very Gray/Grey guy who is faced with a black and white choice.. and spends the balance of the movie deciding what is the right thing to do.

THE KENTUCKIAN Will have to add that one to may "check it out" list sometime, kiddo. Sounds like it could be worth looking into.. even despite my usual and customary "avoid Burt" sort of attitude, ha. two qualities I don't associate with Burt Hmmm.. maybe that is why I have usually not found him to my liking (much) Though I do admit he has had a few films I enjoyed.. I REALLY liked him a lot in The Killers. Ah, that poor "Swede" (he did something wrong.. once.) :-) Will have to check out this film you've suggested here, if only to give him another shot sometime. (no pun intended) ha. (did I mention.. Ah, that poor Swede?)

Hi Miss G... how unusual they had the long voyage home on tape! It's not exactly one of the most well known movies It was actually a DVD... and you could have just about knocked me over with a feather when he told me that he had that one (because he and his whole family tend to lean more toward the westerns if nothing else) He and his wife like The Duke and Cooper. But it is funny because they have three teenage boys.. and each boy likes someone different.. One likes the Duke, another is a Coop Fan.. and the third leans more toward Jimmy Stewart. Most of our collections are pretty similar (in that we tend to have most of the "better known" titles for those three actors.. but he does have a few I do not.. and I have a few he does not have.. so we do sometimes trade. And we were just standing around last week after church gabbing about movies and the subject came up of how much I enjoy our chats here on all a things Fordian.. and I mentioned that there were a few films I had yet to find that I really was wanting to see...and that was one of them... and lo and behold.. the rest is history, ha. It was a fun surprise. yes, is it ever depressing...but it's Eugene O'Neill...heaaaaveeeey. It was almost overwhelming sometimes (like the scene where they are reading Smitty's letters and you can see the shame in his eyes.. as he is helpless to stop them... HEARTBREAKING. And yet overall.. it was NOT so depressing as to weigh me down to the point I could not keep on watching. I was LITERALLY on the edge of my seat waiting to see who (if anyone) was going to end up on the BAD ship at the end.. alas... I liked the ending w/ the newspaper washing away.. (sniff.. sniff..) It was a good way to tell the final outcome of that situation. John Wayne is very sweet and I even think his accent isn't half bad Ha.. he was such a cutie. His accent sort of came and went.. but the scene he had with Mildred (where he had the most dialogue) was pretty good. That was Mildred Natwick's screen debut I did not know that. She was younger than I had ever seen here, though so that would make sense. Usually she plays such regal "lady" sorts. (or tough old broads, sometimes too, ha) It was interesting to see her in a much "less proper" sort of role. I say again.. what a pathetic sort... to the point of being sympathetic. And OH.. I wanted her to stand up and do the right thing (and get him out of there) I felt so sorry for her. But she just didn't have it in her, did she? I love Arthur Shieds' what do they call him? The "Donkey Man" Ha.. I have to confess.. I never COULD figure out what they were calling him. Some of the accents were so heavy I had trouble understanding them sometimes. But he was a great character.. sort of the wise old voice of reason among the men. Beautiful black and white cinematography OH the use of shadows was brilliant.. and the lighting (or shading) on each man's face for the close up's too (depending on the moment) Very nicely filmed. PS: Jackie.. I just saw your post.. ha.. speaking of making up "scenarios" I kept waiting for him to come swimming up along side the boat (because he jumped ship and escaped) and then.. alas.. they had to show that rotten NEWSPAPER at the end.. sigh..

Ro, you are so sweet Shhh.. Pirate Dude.. you will ruin my "Peacemaker" image. HA. ;-) PS Mr. Movieman... I'd be there in a heartbeat with chocolate chip cookies Yum... my fave! (and DO bring your lovely bride as well, cookies or not..you'd BOTH be most welcome!) PS: Ladies.. thanks for reminding me of the kitty!!! (I had completely forgotten him) Ah.. TWE.. now THAT is a story and ramble well remembered. OH.. and despite the fact it is not a western.. all this FORD/DUKE talks reminds me that I keep meaning to bring up ( but keep forgetting to mention) that a friend of ours at church is a classic movie buff too, and we got to discussing Ford/Duke, etc.. and how much we all enjoy his movies here.. and come to find out.. our friend had a copy of.. THE LONG VOYAGE HOME (which is one of two Fordies I have been wanting to see for a LONG time and had not come across yet) woo hoo. So of COURSE I had to borrow it.. and of course I had to watch it. Ha.. I didn't even make it 24 hours after I got it home before I had to put it in and see what it was all about. I sort of already knew SOME of the plot, but had not really read TOO much on it, as I wanted to see for myself. I am glad to have caught it, though I confess.. it's kinda depressing... but still a good story, overall. Alas.. poor Wardie Bond.. poor Thomas Mitchell... (poor Mildred, even.. what a sympathetic, pathetic sort of gal) And OH that Duke.. (I was not used to seeing him as "the kid") What a pup! Very sweet.

Warlock is coming on Tuesday, Dec 7 at 8pm EST That is one I have heard of (from others) but have not seen, myself. I am going to be busy that evening w/ about 30 little girls at a scouting event.. but I will try to set the VCR before I go! And RE: I'm a little worried about the "teetotalling" thing Ha.. well, my friend surely we can work SOMETHING out.. (because alas we are a totally teetotaling house) but hmm.. let's see... We can leave it as a "don't ask, don't tell" sort of thing. ha, and I promise not to do any sort of breath "sniff" check when you show up (if you decide to take Miss G up on her offer or try some of Jackie's Rum Truffles,) because you HAVE to be there.. it would JUST not be the same w/ out you. Oh boy.. I can picture it now.. there you three will be with your rosey cheeks and these big GRINS on your faces and you'll all be singing a cheerful tune at the tops of your lungs.. and see, I will just think it is because your hearts are warm and all aglow w/ the holiday spirit and the smell of cookies in the air.. ha. :-)

We need to plan our viewing Well.. since I am out here in the middle, right smack between all you folks (ha... think of me as the "cheese" in our little East Coast/West Coast sandwich.. HA) everybody just come on over to my house and we'll have a "Duke Day Film Fest". We can drink "teetotaling" egg nog and we'll bake cookies while we watch (and then we can have one of those "cookie trade" things going on afterward where we all get to share and take home what we made.. ha.. OH.. and lest you think I am only talking to the gals.. Guys... you can come as well... and bring your recipes... because real men CAN bake cookies TOO, ya know. Only.. ugh. I just thought of this... NOBODY tell the Grey Dude. If HE shows up he will try to pawn off some sort of Sawdust and SaurKraut cookie on us and THEN we'd all be DOOMED!! HA.

OH.. and PS: (because I just have not blabbed enough already.. HA) Here's my for sure: SWAYR, Rio Grande, The Searchers (I'll curious to see if I do better with this one), 3 Godfathers, and yes, True Grit, a movie I haven't seen You are really going all out, sir. I am proud of you for not just "dipping you toe" in the Western waters.. ha. You are diving in headlong for sure. Those are all among my more favorite Duke Westerns. (The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, Stagecoach, Hondo, and Big Jake, and Rio Bravo would round out the list as well) As for the Searchers.. now THAT one is likely my most fave of his westerns (and likely my most FAVE Fordie western too) but honestly. it goes back and forth between TMWSLV depending on what mood I am in, ha) And Ethan Edwards had to be one of Wayne's most complex and thought-provoking characters ever, so I will be interested to hear your thoughts for sure. At any rate... I hope you enjoy the film fest, sir. And I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on ALL of them in fact (ha.. boy are YOU going to be busy. ha) I am especially interested in hearing your thoughts on TG, since you have not seen it. Now I have to say, it is a MUCH "bolder and brasher" sort of Duke.. (and may not be as much to your liking if you were more into the earlier westerns) but I truly LOVE his performance in this film... absolutely NOTHING subtle about it.. (unlike some of his other roles we have discussed) but truly entertaining. Edited by: rohanaka on Dec 4, 2010 1:21 PM (because HOW could I have forgotten to list Rio Bravo???????????)

Hello there, Laffite, I am liking how you are truly examining Thursday from all sides. He is a very well written (and completely examination-worthy) sort of character. "Overwhelming Arrogance" as a major (if not the SOLE) character trait in a human being is truly (to me) one of the most EASY to criticize in someone. (which is why I usually describe him as someone that I LOVE to hate) Truthfully,(much to my own regret) I have so little patience with people of this nature, that it sometimes tends to bring out the "arrogant" side of me when I speak to them. (but I am working on that, ha) But honestly.. to try and be as fair as possible, there has to be MORE to someone like Thursday than just their own sense of "self-importance". Even the MOST "self-loved and admired" person has SOMETHING else motivating them.. at least sometimes. Though truly.. it CAN be hard to find, sometimes. Because admittedly.. by definition, one who is as "self-important" as Thursday was will have his own opinions, glory, and worth as the primary reason for almost EVERYTHING they do. But I think Thursday's own little "world" also spun on the axis of "military correctness" and following "the letter" of the law. (granted.. he did it with a sense of pride.. as in: "See what a Great Leader am I" ) But in some ways, he was not "totally" wrong. It IS important to implement and expect the men under your command to follow the right procedures (because a good military commander IS all about taking leadership and making command decisions.. no one wants to follow a "wishy washy, "I can't make up my mind" kinda guy) Yet as important as that can be (in making sure that a soldier is trained, ready, and able to serve) a truly GOOD leader would also allow for the need to make each decision FIT the surroundings, circumstance, and situation. And this more than anything was Thursday's greatest error in command. The men who were at Ft Apache knew their "enemy" (or adversary.. ha. whatever word may fit better) far better than he did, and they understood how the Indians THOUGHT and what sort of fight they were up against. But this flew in the face of Thursday's "cookie cutter" approach to leadership.. HIS way was the THE military way.. and there was NO re-writing that handbook. So of course, he refused to listen to those who COULD have enabled him to be a TRULY great leader. And sadly.. at the end.. I think he saw (with eyes wide open) the error of that sort of thinking, and as some may have suggested already.. he returned to face the final battle not only for his "own" glory.. but also out of respect for the fact that he had led these poor men to their fate.. and now he was going to see things through to their ultimate end (no matter how in error he was) because as their leader, THAT was the right, and honorable, and "military" thing to do. At that point, it was not like he could call a "time out" and regroup and start over. They were all going down.. and he was still the leader, right or wrong, no matter WHAT the situation had become. I don't honestly know if he saw himself (at that point) as someone who would go down "in glory" for dying in battle or not. It would fit with his character to still have that has his primary motivation. But I think it may have gone deeper than that. Because I do think he saw his return to battle as maybe a genuine moment of personal integrity, if you will (which is somewhat different than "pride") And he chose to do what was he thought was honorable even in the face of his obvious failure. And it most likely COULD even have been a matter of "pride" for him to do this, but I agree with Jackie that he also was thinking of his men (maybe for the first time) and he saw (and respected) their honor in the face of his failure as well. I may be wrong.. I likely should go back and watch it all again.. (and WHO knows if that is how I even THOUGHT of this the LAST time.. ha.. sometimes (like you) I will see a film ONE way.. and then reexamine it again in a whole new way later on) but that is how I am remembering it now.. (and I freely admit that all this chat may have even colored some of my thoughts.. but hey.. once again.. that is the benefit of someone like you coming along and striking up a whole new chat on an old favorite like this one) Laffite says: the eponymous creator (did I finally use that word right?) of this time-honored, venerable old thread of the Old West. You are busy with life, understandable, but do drop by once in awhile. We need to hear from our leader YOU are too kind, sir. And I must confess... (and without apology) I COMPLETELY copied Miss GODDESS and her wonderful "Movie Rambles" idea when starting this thread. (I think I even mentioned that in my opening post, lo those many, many posts ago). So it is to HER we owe the whole idea, I am sure. And I truly am glad to see that this thread has been such a great place to spark some good conversation about so many truly fine films. (hey.. on occassion we even discus NON-Ford..and non-John Wayne films just for fun!! HA) And PS.. I HAVE been busy lately and I do miss hanging out here.. so I look forward to it when I can.. but BOY, do you have ME pegged all wrong, ha. I am no leader.. more like just a "wannabe" around such esteemed company as the folks who hang out here.. but BOY, oh boy, do I enjoy the "coattail ride") :-)

THANKS, little missy, for that "PJWSA" ha. That is the first day that starts my Christmas vacation from work, so now I will be wrapping presents, baking cookies.. and drinking egg nog with the DUKE, ha. Woo hoo, what a selection! (even if they DID leave off my all time favorite movie, ha.. sigh.. guess I will have to break out my VHS tape soon, just to get my fix, ha) But wow.. they have some good choices otherwise.. 3 Godfathers!! (woo hoo.. I love that movie... and this time I will try to get a decent taping of it.. the last time I taped it I was taping "over" a tape.. and it did not turn out so well) and also.. True Grit.. AND Big Jake.. yeehaw.. I will try to get a copy of those two this time around as well. The only one on the list I have never seen before is the last one (Man from Monterey) I am wondering if it is in that 25 films collection DVD I have of his early (and not so well know) stepping stone films.. I will have to look. Thanks for the heads up.

Oh my golly......... SO much to read.. and NO time to do it. Dadgum!!! I have been so busy these past few days I have only been able to just glance through the posts here so will have to come back another time to enjoy them. For now I just wanted to pop in and say THANKS, dear Pirate Dude, for stirring up the dust around all things "Fordian" for us again... I will look forward to having more time to reading your posts... OH.. and Jackie... I only caught a glimpse of yours... but did my eyes decieve me.. or did you say that you recently watched not ONLY Stagecoach.. (sigh..) but TQM all in the same day.. talk about a film fest!!! I was only able to catch a few moments of SC when it was on last night.. but now am wishing I had time to pull out my DVD and watch And OH my golly.. how LONG has it been since I got to have a TQM fix?????????? ha.. (color me.. green with envy) I will look forward to reading your posts, folks, as soon as time allows..

YIKES.. get out of my head, Grey Guy. ha. (I ALMOST listed WOTRW as one of his more sinister characters... but I think he still was a bit darker overall in the other two films I mentioned.) PS: I bet you are just loving this whole "gray/grey" confessional I am having here about my favorite movie star, aren't you? Blech!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are right Chris (in that he did not really play the "villian") but I guess what I was meaning by saying that he was not always the "good guy" in the traditional sense of the word (despite the perception) is that he could do "dark" and even somewhat "sinister" so very convincingly... and at least a few of his characters were not always "above reproach" in the way they handled their problems. The Searchers and Red River to me were his darkest roles. (MAYBE.. but I have never seen The Conqueror.. I just cannot bring myself to watch that one for some reason) At any rate.. going back go what I was saying about the kidling and her "perception" that he should always be the good guy.. she is very "protective" of his "good guy" status (most likely because she knows he is a favorite and she won't let herself "cheer" for anyone in a film that is not a good guy. She is still young enough to be very "black and white about what her movie characters SHOULD be. (And ha, I have NO idea where she gets it from) and she is not quite willing to give them any wiggle room in that whole "repentant bad guy" angle... yet. But she IS getting there. BOY did it make her unhappy when we first started watching Angel and the Badman.. and I had to tell her that HE was the BAD man... (but she eventually got over it.. because you are right... he DID end up good after all. ha.) And then OH she was mad another time when I told her that the Duke was an outlaw when we were watching 3 Godfathers. "Mom.. turn the channel.. he should NOT be acting that way" HA. But she got over it.. eventually.. once the baby showed up.. (because after all, WHO could resist that adorable little Robert William Pedro.. ha) PS. WBS.. good for your friend.. he is doing a service to his country and to those he trains to train them well. Edited by: rohanaka on Nov 29, 2010 1:33 AM

Helloooooo Ms Favell!!! never really thought of this before, but realizing when Fort Apache was made, do you think that some of Ford's audience members might have really identified with Yorke strongly - having dealt with a Thursday themselves You may be right, but you know.. if you think about it.. I bet MOST of us (no matter what era we grew up in) could find a Thursday of our own if we stop and think about it.. there are a lot of them out there. But not so many "Yorkes" nowdays... alas.. ha. Also, picking up the pieces of their lives and work, and having to plow through the day to day, perhaps boring WORK of living in peacetime, isn't that what Yorke is going to do? In that brave new world, after having been in combat, it must have seemed really strange. A hero who simply does his work without glory would have been a welcome hero for that time That is an excellent point. And one that I imagine is pretty timely too, considering the world we live in now and the men and women who come home and have to go back to their "normal" lives after living in such an UN-normal way... serving and fighting along with their comrades in day to day life and death situations. I truly admire them for their sacrifice in that way as much as any. And PS: Thank you so much for pointing out the Morlock blog.. I am such a dimwit about remembering to look on there so often.. and boy..that one was well worth the read, so I am glad to have caught it. I think the author made some excellent points (and I truly enjoyed reading it all.. no "angry" to report whatsoever, ha) And I appreciated how the author also sadly pointed out some things that are all too true about our modern day points of view about what makes a "good" good guy.. that he is not necessarily "good"... (more the sort of "anti-hero" like many of the Eastwood films, for example) I like how he ended his post with how refreshing it might be to NOT have that be the way of things so often now days. And not to sound in any way critical of what was written, but if I could have maybe changed one thing it would have been to maybe point out that honestly.. I think many of John Wayne's characters are not so "black and white" as the author seemed to hint at.. (and Grey Guy.. that takes a lot for me to say that as you well know, ha) But instead I think that is the PERCEPTION of many of the roles he played for sure. And PS:.. ha. as for the "perception" of the Duke in his films....The kidling is a perfect example.. she thinks he is "the good guy" in EVERY movie we watch.. and it actually makes her mad when I tell her otherwise, ( NObody better badmouth the Duke to HER, ha,.. In her eyes.. he can do no wrong.. but then again.. she is seven.) But a lot of people still think that way.. despite their age.. and sometimes it is not so easy as who is good and bad.. UGH. I hate to admit it, but for purposes of this conersation,it is often more complicated than that. (BLECH.. I am really sounding FAR more gray/grey than I like to admit.. DO NOT tell the Grey Dude, HA) I imagine much of the reason for why most folks have that "black and white" perception of his image goes back to that whole "legend" idea of what his movies and characters were like more than anything else. Many of his characters had a far greater level of moral ambiguity than most folks realize, but the author was right in that even if he seemed to struggle with right or wrong, he was EXPECTED to come to the "right" choice by the end of the movie (a la... The Searchers, for example) He had some TRULY "meaty" roles that way.. so I guess I would add that I agree with the author that even in their "wrong-ness" many of his characters were motivated by a sense of right.. or at would at least COME to their senses about what was right.. eventually... again.. The Searchers is a great example. Anyway.. I enjoyed the read. It was a great post and had a lot of really good points. And I also enjoyed many of the comments by the various people at the end of the blog as well.. including Suzi's that you pointed out. Thanks again for bringing it all to my attention

before I get on MY soapbox OH my sister Peacemaker.. you take one end of the block and I will take the other.. folks won't know what hit 'em. HA. (and then we will both likely get arrested for causing a public disturbance or something.. but oh, what a way to go.. HA)

Ro is right! HA... for once.. FINALLY.. HA! (please Miss G.. no shouting from the rooftops.. ha. I don't want to raise anyone's expectations for me the NEXT time. ha) sexy". I don't even like that word HA.. And NOW you know why I tend to avoid conversations like this like the PLAGUE, ha. (notice I did not even spell it this time.. ha. I just copied and pasted what YOU wrote, HA) (Jackie.. if you are a "prude" I would be the ULTRA prude, ha) Truthfully.. (whoever said this...) It IS a very personal "thing". And nearly impossible to define.. But notice how MUCH time is spent by so many in our culture trying to define it FOR us.. mostly by the entertainment industry.. but also by the fashion industry as well.. not to mention books, magazines.. EVERY where we go, practically SOMEBODY is trying to tell us what "sexy" is (ugh, I said it) and how to BE it. No wonder each generation gets more and more "open" about talking about IT.. but more and more CLUELESS about how to truly define it (in a postive way, way at least) Ok.. I will stop.. you do NOT want me to get on my soap box about THIS subject for sure. As the mother of a young female child.. who is less than 5 or 6 years away from "teen" hood.. oh me.. I could go ON and ON (and ON) for days about it all... but for your sakes I will refrain. ha. (Golly.. aren't you all glad???????????????)

Wayne is so splendid, I think it's the quietest role he ever played, but to me it is the most meaningful. Arguably, he is the best man in the outfit, and is the least well known. He did not die as a hero, and he backs into the shadows in order that others will be remembered. Agh! I will tear up if I keep writing! I love what you have written here, little darlin'. And I have to say that I really enjoy seeing my favorite actor so well described. The truth is he truly DID have a way about him that allowed for moments like this on the screen.. especially earlier on in his career before he became SO huge. I know I have said this before but I think he is among one of the more 'underrated" actors who hit the big time. So often he gets confused with his "image" of the BIG cowboy with the LOUD mouth and the TOUGH GUY attitude. And yes.. he was all that.. but also so very much more... if one stops and studies his films and the many (very diverse.. though some might not realize it) sorts of characters he played. Though admittedly he is more well known for his westerns, he had a LOT more in him as an actor than just "a cowboy" sort of character. And I think I would still say that even if he ONLY made westerns (which he did not). I think some folks like to "pooh-pooh" him and make him seem of less importance simply because he was so well known for his "cowboy" image and so "iconic" for lack of a better word. And you know.. I guess that is their right. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.. and certainly I would never presume to say that ALL the world should love his films as much as I do. But to me that is awfully narrow-minded . And I don't say that lightly. .because I have always maintained that in terms of "likes and dislikes" movies (and movie characters) are NOTHING if not subjective. But to me it is sad to see the "stereotype" become the "type" for John Wayne because I think if one really STUDIES some of his more famous roles (and many of his not so famous) and does it objectively (if that is even possible) it would show a much different Duke than most folks realize. But instead his talent has been lost in the "legend" his more famous roles created. (almost like he is a living lesson on the whole "print the legend" sort of thing). And I imagine that somewhere right now someone is reading this and rolling their eyes before looking down their nose and saying.. "Oh blah blah blah.. just another "John Wayne fan" (as if that were some sort of comment on my intelligence.. or lack thereof) But in truth.. it is a sign of ignorance on THEIR part as far as I am concerned because that just shows me they really don't know much about his ability as an actor. Like him or don't like him.. but don't negate his talent. (ok..ha. that sounds a bit bossy.. sorry.. WHO do I think I am anyway, ha) Now I have to confess.. I am probably his worst excuse for a "fan" in that I know next to nothing about his personal life.. and not much about him as a real PERSON... but truly, I don't need to in order to appreciate him as an actor. I just like his films and the way he portrays his characters. Do I think EVERYTHING he made is first rate. No. (In fact there are some of his later films especially.. late 60's early 70's) I have not even seen because I am truly not very interested in some of them. But then.. do I think EVERYTHING he did had to be perfect just because I am his fan??? No again. He was just a guy.. who made movies.. and SOME of them were OUTSTANDING. (at least to my uneducated and ignorant film-watching brain) so I will enjoy what I do about him without apology and leave the rest, OH good gravy.. what a blabber mouth I am. Just listen to me rant.. ha. (and this time.. I really AM ranting, HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) But I mean that in a good way, of course. :-) I will step down off my Duke Appreciation Soap Box now. ha. Sorry to go all "whacko" on you.. ha. (oh yeah.. like that was something "new" for me, HA) PS: Ollie: The interesting scene, for me, is Ward Bond dictating orders in his own house and Thursday clearly understanding he was overstepping A Man's Boundary. For once - he consider Man instead of Officer Rank. I love that scene. A man's home IS his castle.. where the rank is Father/Son and so on... and there is no longer room for a Colonel to come in and outrank anybody. I also like when Thursday is talking to Bond before everyone else comes in the room about how Wardie's son got into West Point.. and how he understood that Presidential Appointments were reserved for Medal of Honor recipients.. and Bond's character says something like "That's my understanding too, sir" What a great moment. Thursday gets "put in his place" without O'Rourke Sr having to so much as raise his voice... and all done and said with the proper amount of respect. PS Miss G: No, no, not at all and I'm one who is really leery of films with overt political messages myself, if for different reasons. I just am so focused on what is happening to this family, the Joads, who seem to represent all families and what can happen to them when outside forces put extreme pressure on them. They can't even identify the "enemy" that is shooting them down, because he is more invisible than those eery Arabs in The Lost Patrol. In fact, he has no identity, he is just the reality of modern life Well said, little missy. It is easy to fight when you KNOW who to fight.. but when you are in the hands of "circumstances beyond your control" it may not always be so simple who the real adversary is and what the best ways to overcome it all should be. And I am glad that these things are not TOTALLY spelled out in this film (though in many ways, I imagine it is to be "understood" I guess) But again, RE: the political messages.... to me they were not overt (at least for the most part) so I am glad it's possible for me to look at the film more from the view point of the Joad's.. and all they were enduring and how they responded to all of it, rather than focus on the politics of what caused it all and what the right solution for each of them may or may not be. And I am also glad I was not TOO off on my memory for the ending speech.. though you are right.. I think she was speaking more in general about the "people" than just about the Joads. Times like that can make or break a family And I imagine that she did feel a LOT of the weight of how her own family would never be the same again.. so in that sense I think you were right in how much more optimistic her tone sounded at the end considering all they had been through.

Hiya Mr. Movieman.... I usually avoid conversations like this like the PLAGUE, ha. But I just want to add "two cents" of my own, if I may. First of all.. there is a difference (I am sure has already been noted SOMEWHERE in this chat) between what is "sexy" and what is "attractive" but to be honest.. I am way MORE about the "attractive" than anything else. But for me.. (and for purposese of this discussion) they both are MORE centered on personalities and character traits than physical appearance.. (but having said that.. oh me.. some folks ARE more physically attractive than others, aren't they.. so yes.. I am sure that DOES play into it all somehow) As for "physical" traits.. I am like the Goddess, I guess. I don't want them to be TOO "purty" ha. (I tend to not prefer men who are "prettier" than me.. HA. So I like the "rugged" sorts as well. Gary Cooper.. very handsome.. but not "purty" for example.) And despite how MUCH I love my Duke.. I have to say.. I only find him "attractive" in a HANDFUL of films.. such as Hondo.. They Were Expendable.. TQM for sure.. but again.. it is not so much his appearance as the type of character he is playing. I find a "strong" male character in a movie to be attractive IF they are strong in ways that matter most.. reliable.. honest.. faithful to the woman they are attracted to.. and also if they exhibit strength of character in the face of both a) temptation.. or persecution. That makes them even MORE attractive to me.... no "wishy washy" guys, if you please. And then having said all that.. I guess there is a WHOLE other sort of movie character that is appealing to me as well... (becuase I DO like to laugh.. and I love someone who can make me smile) so.. WAY over at the other end of the spectrum.. I also like that " playful pup" quality in a leading man sometimes too. And again not too "purty" but just fun loving... something like a young Robert Montgomery... or a young Jimmy Stewart (like in You Can't Take It With You.. or Destry Rides Again) Oh.. and ha.. I never thought of this before.. but for whatever reason I am thinking of it now..ha. Gasp.. dare I admit it.. a young Fred MacMurray can be very appealing too (a la Alice Adams) ha. (Oh golly.. where did THAT come from??)