rohanaka

Excuse the interruption.. but just wanted to say RE: Mr Grey.. and The Rains Came: I've yet to see that one! I know it's a big favorite of Laffite's. I think Myrna can be sexy, but it's usually not her I am USUALLY lousy at "pegging" you and what you will like.. but I THINK this film would be very much to your liking... (and for once, ha.. I am being totally sincere.. no "smart mouth" intended.. HA.. I know.. hard to believe, aint it??)

Hellloooooooo Little Missy!! And it's great having "fresh meat" like Laffite and CineMaven enter the western world...it stirs up the dust on the trail and gets things kicking around here I agree!!! It is always fun to see things from a fresh pair of eyes all over again. That was beautifully said. In one interview I recently watched with Ford, he was asked about heroism. He said it was the obscure, ordinary looking little guy no one notices that was the real hero most of the time. In other words, the ones who don't get the glory. Wow.. ha. I just realized how FEW roles could ever be described as John Wayne playing a "little guy" ha. But he DOES willingly take a back seat to Thursday in this story.. and he come off standing out in front as a character because of it. PS: Mr Movieman: Despite his knowing what he knows he will not let Thursday go down for the fool he is. There are bigger things at stake Exactly... the "myth" was far too important to preserve for EVERYONE's sake.. no matter what the truth really was. He knows what he has to do.. and he does it. Moving over to TGOW: Wow...a silent ending. That certainly is appropriate to a man who believe in pictures more than words. I agree it would probably make me feel incredibly heavy and despondent that way. Wowsa, Miss G and Jackie.. you have me thinking on this film all over again. It has been SOME time since I saw it last. I need to go back and revisit the ending to remember everything she says there at the end.. but gee.. just the thought of ending without her final "moment".. it could change EVERYTHING about how to view their future.. and also how to view all that had happened to them (as far as the effects all their struggles had on who they were (or at least she was) as people. As for "heavy and despondent".. well, practically the entire story plays out that way.. it is a VERY depressing story in many ways, so it COULD have been an effective way to end it all as well. Again.. leaving her words of determination to "go on" in spite of (or even because of) it all out of the at end of the movie could have given off a MUCH different "vibe" for sure. And PS: ha.. it HAS been so long since I saw the film I many not even be remembering what sorts of "feelings" her final speech even brought out in me.. so I might have it all wrong anyway..ha. (would not be the first time, HA. I am an old woman and sometimes I tend to forget, ha) Honestly.. I can't say which way I'd have rather had it. Mostly I have to say this film (at least in my mind) centered more on her character than I realized at first. So to have it end with her and how all she had experienced affected her attitude about the future is not such a bad way to go.. and again.. ha... that is providing IF I am remembering it all correctly. (did I mention it has been a long time since I saw it and also... I am an OLD woman and tend to be forgettful of some things) I seem to remember a certain ramble about that film Me too. ha. And if I remember THAT correctly, it did not go nearly as far as it COULD have.. but I am very VERY glad about that. ha. Believe it or not, I think I can understand your feelings because I feel the same about some of his other films. I may not like the subject matter in general, but he'll find a way of making me focus on the human beings and their stories, and not the milieu or the things I don't necessarily agree with Well said! And I hestite to say too much "negative" stuff about the film now as I do not want to come off sounding like I hated the movie or something. Far from it. But I was just at odds with SOME of the things in the story, if I recall.. and they sort of caught my attention. But GEE, it IS a very powerful story... and if viewed strictly from a "character study" sort of way.. to me it is a GREAT film. So even if there were some "themes" floating around in there that I had a bit of a struggle chewing on, the film itself.. and the characters.. especially MA (and Tom too) were VERY well played and quite thought provoking. And as for the themes that I had a hard time reconciling... well... I do not know anything about Steinbeck to speak of and as I recall (at least in the film) they were not "hit you over the head" strong and obvious.. but more just a 'sense" I had about some of the ideals that were being put forth.. so I freely admit I might have just been too "senstive" about some of them. (gee.. I am sounding rather "cryptic" tonight, aint, I? ha)

Wowsa!!! I go out for a while and LOOK what I get to come back to.. what a fun read, everybody!!! And Miss G.. you are right on the money.. Isn't it amazing how these same films seem to come up for our conversations again and again. A less thoughtful person MIGHT think that we are all just stuck in a RUT, ha. (OH me.. perish THAT thought as well) but in truth I think you hit on how it is a testament to how MUCH can be "mined" so to speak from these treasures. And PS: Laffite.. I am really looking forward to hearing how you found all these stories and characters.. and what your thoughts are about them. PS: Ollie.. I have never seen Thursday as a "villain" so much as an "adversary". And I know.. that is sort of like I am trying to talk out of both sides of my mouth, maybe. But truly.. I think he REALLY thought he was doing right.. and was just REALLY wrong about how right he was. I don't think he ever set out to cause mayhem and destruction for anyone (but the indians) and I think he just failed to see how his own arrogance and unwillingness to consider anyone's opinions but his own could be so harmful to all the other men in his command. (He really DID think he was "something" afterall... doggone it.. that party SHOULD have been for him) I think my love to "hate" him attitude stems from my TOTAL lack of patience for anyone with that level of arrogance as their primary character trait. I don't MIND seeing him taken down a peg or two (or twenty) but GEE, I hate the way he gets his final "come-uppance" and how many men pay the price right along with him. VERY tragic. So.. that would be where my "hate" for him stems from more than anything. And, Miss G.. re: your comment: It's a stunning example of his ability to be very internal with his acting...because he's not given a heck of a lot to do except act frustrated with Thursday. This is very similar to me to his "Sean Thornton" character in The Quiet Man. Rarely is he in this position in any film outside of those with Ford. THAT is a perfect way to describe Wayne's performance in this film. And you are right.. he is very "internal" with his acting... he shows his strength.. his "reigned in" strength, by the way, (in BOTH films) in the way he outwardly handles the inward frustration caused by another persons' arrogance. You just know in his mind he is thinking, "I COULD do something TO you for what you are doing or saying right now, but I WON'T". You gotta admire a man with that much self-control. And in FA it makes you respect HIM (the lower ranking officer) all the more to see him show such superior character especially when compared to someone so "grand" and proud of his higher ranking like Thursday. (OH gee.. if ONLY the Duke could have had a few "Marques of Queensbury" moments with THURSDAY.... ha. Now that would be the stuff that Peacemaker DREAMS are made of, to be sure, ha. IF only.. OH, and PS: RE: The Grapes of Wrath On the big screen.. sigh.. talk about the stuff that dreams are made of. Although not my fave Fordie by a LONG shot (but let's not go down THAT road again, ha) Still.. an excellent film, and I bet it was a grand sight to see. PS some MORE.. ha. I JUST saw your post as I was getting ready to post this.. DANGER.. oh me.. I never saw that before, either..

probably the most egotistical character this side of my laptop What.. did you loan Frank Grimes your laptop?????????????????????? And I should write less Perish the THOUGHT, little darlin'!!! And PS: thanks for the praise.. but alas. I have way too much evidence to the contrary (in the form of oh so many typos, dangling participles, and a HOST of other poorly structured sentences) against me, ha.

I too love Roha's comment about "basking in the authenticity of the characters Whoops, Ollie.. as much as I like to "bask" (especially in the glow of adoration from others, HA) that well worded and totally praise worthy quote belongs to Miss G. (I only WISH I could write half so well) :-) PS: .FORT APACHE is my least favorite film to watch because Fonda's character is so despicable, such a worthless waste of this planet's oxygen supply. And he knows it, too. Oh golly, Ollie.. ha. You hate it and I love it all for the same reason!! ha. Fonda's Thursday would DEFINITLEY be at or near the top of my list (if I HAD a list, that is) of Movie Characters that I LOVE to HATE the most. ha. (There ya go, Grey Guy.. another list topic for you.. run with it, buddy) :-)

Howdy there, Mr. Pirate Guy... I see you are already in good hands here with some VERY fine Fordie recommendations. (I too would echo Miss G for Stage Coach and The Searchers.. two of my all time favorites) But I like the recommendations for TMWSLV and MDC too. Realy.. you can't go wrong w/ any of the four of them. I also like the three cavalry films (not really a "trilogy" exactly but often referred to that way) Ft Apache, Rio Grande, and She Wore A Yellow Ribbon.And truly.. for the whole "Fordian western" experience.. all three of them are excellent choices, so I would heartily recommend them all, but if I had to pick a fave among the three of them.. OH it would be hard.. but I would go w/ Ft Apache. (simply because Fonda's role in that one just STANDS out so much. OH my golly what a piece of work that Thursday is, ha) And PS: I like what Miss G said about him "passing the baton" to Wayne in that one, too.. (but then I am a huge Duke fan, myself) Another more recent favorite of mine (within the last couple of years) is Three Bad Men. WHAT a story. We had a HUGE old ramble on that one in Miss G's Movie Rambles (Sr.) thread a long while ago. (And PS: Ollie's non-western recommends sound good too.. The Informer is a TERRIFIC film and in fact, The Long Voyage Home is one that I have yet to see myself as well.. it has been on my wanna see list a while) So gee.. it looks like you are in pretty good shape for a mighty fine Foridan film fest,sir... ha. What time should we all show up???????? HA!!!! (I'll bring the popcorn!!) Oh.. and PS: in the "non-Fordie" category.. definitley... the ones Miss G and Movieman have mentioned already such as Shane and Red River are TRULY great westerns.. and there are some really good Anthony Mann's out there too (that I am only starting to appreciate myself) And getting back to the Duke.. OH me.. don't even get me started on The Big Trail.. or Hondo.. or... ha.. Ok.. I will stop.. Sigh.. So many westerns.. so little time.. ha.

Hiya Mr Movieman.. We caught Hatari a while back for the first time (at least the first time for the kidling.. and I don't recall if it was one I had seen before that or not.. so at least it SEEMED like watching for the first time for ME too, ha) Even the QT joined in. LOTS of family fun in that movie, for sure. And hey.. the kidling loves it all the more because it has the DUKE in it.. ha. (can I raise 'em or what??) HA. We've enjoyed watching it a couple of times more over the last several months too.. we sort of save it for a "fall back" movie because it is nice to have something to pull outonce in a while that the kidling can watch that does not involve doofy animals, race cars, super heros, princesses (or some other variety of animated THINGS) singing and dancing around all over creation, ha. LOVE the baby elephants, by the way.

Ha.. Jackie.. he DOES have a sort of Ralph look going on. ha. Too CUTE!! Happy Birthday to your kidling!!!!!!! Here is a little something just for her from her Auntie Ro: Enjoy!

Ha.. Miss Maven you sound like quite the little starlet!!! Too cute. I bet you were a show stopper! (Lousy chicken pox! What a tough break for the PTA!!) And ps.. I have always had a secret love for Horton Hatches The Egg.. The first time I read it I was LONG grown up and married and I SWEAR I remember thinking at the time (though likely it was just my imagination) that he must have written it on behalf of all stepmothers everywhere (or at least the ones in similar shoes as mine). It was just that sort of "season" in my life at the time I guess. Anyway.. that was YEARS and years (at least 14 or 15 years) ago. Or as I like to say, "It's all a memory now". But meanwhile I am still waiting (and waiting) for one particular baby bird to hatch out as an elephant.. sigh... (But THAT is a whole other story.... )

Thanks for the youtube for Four Feathers, little darlin'. I will try and check it out sometime soon. (and PS.. yes.. those were turtles on that cake.. just for you!!)

The Doctor is a huge hit at our house. (I always enjoyed him as a kid and w/ my younger stepson too. Then he out grew him, and so was glad to finally have an "excuse" to enjoy those books some more with her) PS: Ms Cutter.. I love those vows.. TOO clever (and very sweet) I love the Grinch story (repentence is one of my most fave themes and that one is a GREAT story for it) But for just sheer reading pleasure, I have to go w/ Green Eggs and Ham as my all time fave. When the kidling was a baby I did not own a copy of the book, but would just quote from it for fun to entertain her (and the continued it after we bought the book as well). I used to make up stuff to go w/ it.. just because it made her laugh. My fave (and her's too for that matter" was Clint Eastwood reads Doctor Seuss.. ha.. " Do you like Green Eggs and Ham? Well DO YA, punk?" You have not lived until you hear an 18 month old giggle when you read/say that with "inflection" ha. A close second fave for me (and probably most fave for the kidling) is One Fish Two Fish... "Some are sad, and some are glad.. and some are very, very bad. Why are they sad, and glad, and bad? I do not know, go ask your Dad." Which is always followed by the kidling shouting out (even now though she is almost getting too old for it.ha).. "Oh D-AAA-D!" (whether he is home or not) It's "tradition" ha. PS: Miss G.. STILL hoping for a finish on Giant soon.. sigh. But I just keep resisting.. (I know.. I am hopeless..ugh) Guess this is one of those where I need some extra motivation.ha. Gee.. After all the Seuss talk, I can almost hear you now.. ha. "You do not like Rock, Liz, and Dean, so you say.. Try them, try them and you may. (ha) Try them and you may, I say" HA!

Hiya Ollie.. I looked up Cowboys and Aliens online because I could NOT believe anyone could even conceive of such a notion.. ha. Sadly.. I was mistaken. OH my golly.. I watched the trailer for it.. I can't say for sure (because other than the trailer, I have NO knowledge of the movie) but it looks like they are going for a "War of the Worlds-ish, Independence Day-ish" kind of high action sort of feel with a western twist. Oh brother.. They SHOULD have gone more "campy" with it instead of coming on "serious".Because I dont think (at least from what I saw in the trailer) that it is SUPPOSED to be funny.. and yet.. I still laughed. HA! Maybe they could have done a sort of "ET: The Bonanza Years" kinda thing.. ha. (Where Hoss and Little Joe find a friendly and loveable little space alien creature and teach him to ride and rope out on the range before he has to return back to his home planet) ha. Now THAT would at least have been more "believable. OH.. better still.. I just had a thought... You were onto something by mentioning The Fresh Prince.. ha. What they SHOULD have done was get Will Smith to play the lead.. ha. Then they could have a sort of "Wild Wild West Meets Men in Black" thing going on. He could play a cowboy who is working for the Secret Service as an Extra-Terrestrial Law Man. James West with laser guns (one hidden in his belt buckle and the other in his boot heel, of course) HA. Oh, those Hollywood guys.. what WERE they THINKING????????? (did I mention OH brother?????????)

It's a musical! That makes it fluffy! You and your definitions. ha. (Mr. "Interesting + Fascinating = Boring" ) Where DID you buy your dictionary... and what kind is it, anyway??? "Webster's New American Standard: The Wrong Headed Version?" And you call yourself a GLORIA fan.. I bet MAD HAT would watch it.. if only to get to hear Gloria sing "The I Caint Say No" song. Oh brother....................... Oh. I just had a thought.. it is getting close to "A Christmas Story" season.. maybe I should "triple dog dare ya" Ha Edited by: rohanaka on Nov 19, 2010 2:06 AM

Well.. there ya go.. ha. Now you HAVE to see it.. And if it makes you feel any better.. aside from a little "ballet" dream sequence (which I have to say for me lasts a bit too long) right in the middle of of the story.. it is DEFINITELY not "Fluffy"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9esNl4VmME&feature=related (not the same as the Macrea/Steiger version.. but you get the idea....)

Oh wait.. did I say just watch TTM??? I MEANT to say.. just watch TTM AND..... Oklahoma.. ha. (Judd Frey is your kinda guy, Sherrif Layne!)

Let the party begin! Leave it to me to show up late, little missy!! (but hey.. I brought CAKE!!) ha. Sorry to be tardy. Congrats on the 10K!!! PS.. I am enjoying the Ralph thread.. but have not had time to drop a post here yet, until tonight. I am not as familiar w/ him as some, but my fave for him has always been The Heiress.. wowsa, watta role.

The Grey Guy says: have to watch The Third Man Followed by mention of.... a fluffy film for me to watch Well I was starting to WONDER if you were ever going to show up in there or not.... Pretend the CAT was named "Fluffy" and go watch the movie, for crying out loud.

it seems to be the German for "Thyme Well, there ya go, Miss Maven.. mystery solved. (thank you, Miss G)

Mr Dobbs.. with respect, I disagree that I was ranting.. but feel free to think whatever you like. And to be truthful.. I think you are out of line in posting your request to me here.

That would be me Actually, no. It would be some other poster in this thread I was referring to. I guess I missed your post. And to be honest, I do not have the time, nor the inclination to go back and read what you wrote earlier, so I will base my reply to you solely on what you have said most recently. BUT, I also feel there is a rascist component in there, where for some people it means "...from an African American president"; " . . .from minorities running the place"; "....from a pluralistic society"; "....from the atheists and/or non-Christians I truly do not believe this is the place for this conversation, but since you wanted to bring it back into the mix, at the risk of going off topic, even if ever so briefly, I will only answer with the following and save any other comment on this matter for a different place and time. Although I feel certain you are right that there are SOME people (who are perhaps VERY few and far between) out there in the world who may have a racial bias against the current occupant of the White House, I see NO evidence (no matter how cleverly dragged out and presented by those of a more liberal slant) that the vast majority of those who would choose to publically protest the present administration are doing so for any sort of "racist" or "bigoted" reasons. And I just have to say that I find the judgmental way some folks apply an unspoken "intent" (not to mention a sinister and malevolent tone) to a group of concerned citizenry who are simply expressing their political opinion to be a very sad thing indeed. I truly do feel it is a tragedy (not to mention very irresponsible) for anyone to paint others (on EITHER side of the political fence) with such a broad brush as to ascribe unknown opinions and unspoken attitudes of the heart to a group of people who have given no indication that they have such thoughts in mind. And with that I will remove myself from this thread. Though I do I wish to say that I regret that I felt so led as to reply here to the recent comments being made. And now, having done so, I apologize for any interruption of the flow of this thread. Please feel free to carry on with your conversation here without any further interruption from me.

Hello there ladies!! Miss Maven. I am glad you got a chance to check out this film for yourself. And I love that you have raised a whole NEW thought here (regarding WHY Thymian did not just "move on" after the reformatory instead of getting dragged into a life of prostitution the way she did) I don't know for sure why. I think (at least for me) it is often easy to fall into the trap of viewing these sorts of situations (from that era) from 21st century eyes.. so THAT might be part of the issue. Sometimes I expect the characters in movies (from that era) to think and act like people living NOW days might.. and it doesn't always fit. (and I think the other ladies made some good points about the whole " ideal German" woman issue, etc. There are a lot of factors to consider, I guess. For me.. it was not so hard for me to buy into how she might have ended up "trapped" there when I started to think about how she was presented in the film very early on.. she was shown as a complete "innocent". Look at how she appears as we first see her.. all dressed in white. with the flowers in her hair.. (was she even carrying a prayer book?? I don't remember) It was almost like she was done up like some sort of "sacrificial" lamb being led to the slaughter. I imagine it never even entered her mind that harm could come to ANYONE (unless they were truly deserving of it) And being so innocent, she was COMPLETELY unaware of the "mature" side of life (especially with regard to sex and the way men and women interact. (And I imagine the whole "swooning" thing is a "sign of the times" as well.. she was too "delicate" to withstand the situation between her and the "monster" Meinert) And yet.. for all innocence and delicate nature.. she DID have moments of strength.. as she started to grow. She began to see the world through much less "purer" eyes.. and understand that real harm CAN come to someone even if they do not deserve it. And when she was finally free from the reformatory.. well. it is easy to look at her and say.. WHY?? Why did you go THERE?? But again.. she trusted Osdorff.. and she trusted her friend (was her name Erika?) she was still very innocent (despite being raped and having a baby, etc.. etc) And so she was more or less .. once again.. played by "worldlier and seamier" folks and fell into the lap of some VERY unsavory people. So why did she stay? I don't know.. And I like that she TRIED to "work" an honest job.. but why not just go out (of where she was) and get a job? I don't know. Maybe she felt like she has nowhere else to go.. and maybe she also had no trust in anyone on the outside helping her anymore than the folks where she was at already had done (look where her trust had gotten her so far) And maybe she also had no clue about how to find a job.. if she'd been "protected and pampered" all her life (before the reformatory) she might have felt she had very few "skills" to offer the job market.. her "dancing lessons" were obviously not going to get her very far. But beyond all this.. I think the main reason she stayed.. and this is the tragedy of MANY young girls who fall into this sort of life, I believe.. then and now.. she likely may not have feltl she COULD get out of that sort of life anymore. She likely felt spoiled (in the worst sense of the word) and had few options. Where she was at... was all she knew. And she'd become a "willing" prisoner to her circumstance as a result. We always have choices in life... even when we THINK we don't.. and really.. very few people are ever TRULY trapped into making a choice like the one she made to stay. But it is not hard to see how girls like her..who would otherwise be out on the cold street and left in a state of hunger and despair might FEEL like they were trapped into that life and could not leave it. They might even begin to feel beholden to some sort of Aunt Bee madame type (ha.. I love that name, by the way.. but OH the sad image it conjures up of the seedier side of Mayberry! ha) just because she offers them a place to stay.. clothes to wear.. food to eat.. and SOME sort of income. (and SHE was a kindly madame.. MANY others.. madames and/or pimps might be MUCH more cruel.) So at least Thymian had a "gentler" life if only in that regard. Anyway.. I don't know if any of this makes sense or not.. but I just think that she was a "type" of character that perhaps is a perfect example of women who, throughout the ages.. (not to try and sound too dramatic) who might have fallen by the wayside because NO one cared for them.. and they had nowhere else to turn.. sad, very sad. She really was a LOST girl in that sense. And PS.. if you find OUT about that name.. ha.. let me KNOW.. it has bugged me ever since I saw it.. ha. I kept wanting to call her Thiamine" HA!! Travelling on the #6 train home today, I saw a father and his 2-3 year old daughter get on the train. She was in a carriage...he picked her up, put her on the seat. He had his arm around her to protect her from the bar of the seat. He let her stand up on her own, but his arm was always near. she put her arms around his neck, he kissed her little cheeks. Their stop came and they got off. That is a LOVELY scene.. and that dad is a GOOD example of a loving father.. you know. this will sound all "soapbox-ish".. ha.. and WHEN have I ever done THAT ha) But I think there is NO greater debt we can have as human beings than the one parents owe to their children. And BOY do some people "get"that... while sadly.. so many others do not. (sigh.. I will step down off that box.. you do NOT want to get me started on that kick again.. "shades of "M" ha...) MISS G says: I believe it takes far more strength of character and emotional strength. And one man's loving sacrifice over two thousand years ago still has the power to change people's lives Rohanaka replies... :-)

I'd like to have died in the first ten minutes or so of the film...when to me, the most grotesque act of the ENTIRE film took place...and it was not more than a "wink", but that wink nearly put me through the roof OH my golly, I completely forgot about that wink.. BLECH!!!!!!!!! What a hideous, sleazy, low life.. You could almost see the slime oozing off of him.. UGH. And the dad.. UGH.. just letting him get by with it.. not even ACTING like it was wrong.. ICK!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was not joking when I said that the reason I was able to keep from crying (about all the tragedy that befell that poor girl) was because I was SO out and out FURIOUS with the folks who caused it. Oh WHERE is my brick.. I would have LOVED to throw it at the both of them.. if I aim just right, I could give it enough force that it would skim off the top of one.. and as he goes down, it would land upside the head of the other one.. OH my golly.. what a pair of monsters... I honestly wanted nothing more than that this movie be re-directed and re-cast with JOHN WAYNE as the father and subesequently there would be fewer and better pharmacists in the world. HA!!!! April.. if ONLY the Duke could have been her dad... I can just picture it now.. (4 across, 6 down) http://www.abcarcade.com/john-wayne-soundboard.html

By the way, do you like my summer look: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha and... HA!!! Now THAT's you!! ha. (gee.. I wonder if those caps come in GREY!!!)

Hellooooooooo Mr Grey!!! Especially since I'm a "Meinert OH no.. perish the thought!!! Even you.. yes YOU.. in all your "GREY/GRAY/GREY-ness appear "STERLING" next to THAT slimy low-life, utterly contemptable piece of... oh I can't even SAY the word. MY golly he has to go on a list.. ha. Where is my list of most LOTHESOME characters ever..ha. He would be on it!! Ms Favell says: As far as I was concerned, they could have ended it with her giving the money away, because that was the strongest moment for me Rohanaka interrupts herself: HA!! Jackie.. no WONDER I was thinking that thought (about how it would have been a good way to end it right there.. I had completely forgotten that you had mentioned this first.. duh... Movie watching minds think alike. ha. Meanwhile, the Grey Dude replies to Jackie: That was very good, Jackie. You're right, the film could have ended there, but I thought it was wonderful to see another person emerge as someone similar to Thymian (Louise Brooks). And The elder Count Osdorff (Arnold Korff) didn't personally suffer like Thymian, but he felt that he helped contribute to the demise of his nephew (Andr? Roanne). It was a very touching turn of events. And this leads us to the end, too What an emotional "epilogue" to her situation. And a great way to show how deeply the uncle was affected not only by the nephew's tragic end, but also her HER former plight as well. His eyes were completely opened.. and the "LOVE" line at the end was a very fitting close to it all. He's me! Lazy! Ha.. maybe we should start calling you Count Shiftless. But then I have had such a poor track record of keeping up w/ some of the chats on here myself lately... I better not point TOO many fingers. ha. (I have been a bit of a "GIANT" slack off on my rambling lately.. sigh... forgive me, Miss G!!) Like most every character in the film, "Junior" is selfish. I don't view him as a horrible person, because I do believe he initially wanted to help Thymian for the right reasons. But the moment money entered the picture, he saw the easy way out, which is his way To me he just was so tragically lacking in any sort of "intestinal fortitude" or backbone... he could not REALLY help anyone else because he was so inept at even helping HIMSELF, which really was a shame because basically.. he was a pretty "likable" guy, for all his flaws. What a tragedy to see such a waste of human potential. There's a lot of truth in what you say. You see, I think of Thymian's father (Josef Rovensk?) being the "protected Junior." Instead of confronting him and his improprieties, the family looked to cover them up and get rid of the "problem." They do this to Elisabeth (Sybille Schmitz) and then Thymian. They are looking to protect the money man, the "spoiled child." OH my golly.. that dad was SUCH a loser. I hold him more responsible than just about anyone. SHE was HIS to love and guide and protect.. and he completely, thoroughly, utterly, and without a doubt let her down. What a VERY, VERY sad excuse for a parent. Thank you for posting those screencaps of the restaurant scene where they see each other and he looks like he WANTS to reach out to her.. and he LETS the others with him (Meta.. and the MONSTER) drag him away... OH that one pic of her just standing there with that man all over her as her father is watching while being dragged off.. HEARTBREAKING and INFURIATING all at the same time. (did I mention my whole "mother hen" thing that I had going on while watching this movie??? ha) I wish I could think as well of him as you. I'm not sure what the drawings really mean but they look to suggest extravagance I got the sense that he just wanted to be "rich" again. (I don't know if he had any business in mind or not) At any rate.. whatever his plans were.. he clearly was WAY more concerned in what that money was going to mean for HIM that what it could EVER possibly mean for Thymian. Very selfish. And I know that sounds harsh.. I DID like him (and kept hoping the best for him) but again.. he just did not have enough backbone to do the right thing by her. Selfish indeed. I think the film speaks to trust. We all place our trust and faith in others at different points of our life. We, ourselves, are also entrusted in kind. It's what we all do with the trust of others that comes to define how good we really are. "This is my possession. What will you do with it? This is my happiness. What will you do with it? This is my heart. What will you do with it?" Those who reward your trust will find a special place with you That was quite beautiful, Mr. Grey. (hmm.. it IS you, isn't it.. ha. Mr. "I hate mushy stuff" ) Truly though you have it exactly right.. It can be a dangerous (sometimes even LIFE threatening thing) to trust your heart to someone else. Those who reward your trust will be special to you.. but the reverse is true too as those who BREAK that trust.. especially the ones whom you love the most.. OH my gosh. the hurt sometimes can NEVER be healed. Some people just have the ability to keep moving forward and with a hopeful, positive feeling about life. It's not easy And poor Thymian.. she had EVERY reason to never trust anyone again.. but I LOVED the fact that she still did.. and that she willingly let herself be placed under the care of Osdorff's uncle.. even after EVERYTHING she'd already been through. Again I think this shows a strenght of character that is utterly inspriing and I love that her spirit was not crushed despite the way she'd been trampled on for so long. I actually felt that the father wanted to help his daughter but Meta overruled him. But, even after that night, he could have still gone back and found his daughter. Again, this speaks to the weakness of the man. Although, you women are so darn bossy with us! "You're choosing her over me!" Ha.. well.. we women NEED to be bossy with SOME of you men. ha. It is the ONLY way you will listen!! But all kidding aside... I still blame the dad for his own failings. Meta only had as much power over him as he allowed her to have. (talk about not having any BACKBONE) That was his DAUGHTER over there for crying out loud! And oh sure. he WANTED to be with her.. I think he DID miss her and care about her.. but not enough to DO anything about it. When she needed him most.. once again.. he let her down (in a HUGE and utterly AWFUL way) as he just looked away from her (while they are leading him out) like she was a stain on the carpet or something.. As the resident "mother hen" (ha) he gets ZERO sympathy from me. To be honest.. (and this TOTALLY suprised me) the one person I DID eventually start to feel some sympathy for was META. I think originally she was only out to get what she wanted for HERSELF and if that meant getting Thymian out of the picture. so be it. But BOY.. once she had those kids.. I think she saw things differently. And when she realized that Thymian could have just walked right past her and kept on going... but did not.. I think it may have really affected her for good and that she would maybe as a result become a better person for it. I'd like to THINK so anyway.. At any rate.. (and maybe I am wrong about this, I don't know) but I think she at least had a moment's regret for the hurt she caused (if only a moment's) and that has to count for something. Rohanaka says: Ultimately.. you CANNOT make someone else do something they should do just because you want them to do it. The Grey Guy replies: Hear, hear Rohanaka adds a post script: OH.. I MEANT to say.. you cannot make SOME (shadowy grey) people do something they should to just because you want them to.... you also have use a frozen rope and a hatpin.. oh.. and sometimes a giant OCTOPUS as well. HA!!!!! Edited by: rohanaka on Nov 13, 2010 11:28 PM