rohanaka
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Posts posted by rohanaka
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Let the party begin!
Leave it to me to show up late, little missy!! (but hey.. I brought CAKE!!) ha. Sorry to be tardy.
Congrats on the 10K!!!
PS.. I am enjoying the Ralph thread.. but have not had time to drop a post here yet, until tonight. I am not as familiar w/ him as some, but my fave for him has always been The Heiress.. wowsa, watta role.
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The Grey Guy says:
have to watch The Third Man
Followed by mention of.... a fluffy film for me to watch
Well I was starting to WONDER if you were ever going to show up in there or not....
Pretend the CAT was named "Fluffy" and go watch the movie, for crying out loud.
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it seems to be the German for "Thyme
Well, there ya go, Miss Maven.. mystery solved. (thank you, Miss G)
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Mr Dobbs.. with respect, I disagree that I was ranting.. but feel free to think whatever you like. And to be truthful.. I think you are out of line in posting your request to me here.
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That would be me
Actually, no. It would be some other poster in this thread I was referring to. I guess I missed your post. And to be honest, I do not have the time, nor the inclination to go back and read what you wrote earlier, so I will base my reply to you solely on what you have said most recently.
BUT, I also feel there is a rascist component in there, where for some people it means "...from an African American president"; " . . .from minorities running the place"; "....from a pluralistic society"; "....from the atheists and/or non-Christians
I truly do not believe this is the place for this conversation, but since you wanted to bring it back into the mix, at the risk of going off topic, even if ever so briefly, I will only answer with the following and save any other comment on this matter for a different place and time.
Although I feel certain you are right that there are SOME people (who are perhaps VERY few and far between) out there in the world who may have a racial bias against the current occupant of the White House, I see NO evidence (no matter how cleverly dragged out and presented by those of a more liberal slant) that the vast majority of those who would choose to publically protest the present administration are doing so for any sort of "racist" or "bigoted" reasons.
And I just have to say that I find the judgmental way some folks apply an unspoken "intent" (not to mention a sinister and malevolent tone) to a group of concerned citizenry who are simply expressing their political opinion to be a very sad thing indeed.
I truly do feel it is a tragedy (not to mention very irresponsible) for anyone to paint others (on EITHER side of the political fence) with such a broad brush as to ascribe unknown opinions and unspoken attitudes of the heart to a group of people who have given no indication that they have such thoughts in mind.
And with that I will remove myself from this thread. Though I do I wish to say that I regret that I felt so led as to reply here to the recent comments being made. And now, having done so, I apologize for any interruption of the flow of this thread. Please feel free to carry on with your conversation here without any further interruption from me.
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Hello there ladies!!
Miss Maven. I am glad you got a chance to check out this film for yourself. And I love that you have raised a whole NEW thought here (regarding WHY Thymian did not just "move on" after the reformatory instead of getting dragged into a life of prostitution the way she did)
I don't know for sure why. I think (at least for me) it is often easy to fall into the trap of viewing these sorts of situations (from that era) from 21st century eyes.. so THAT might be part of the issue. Sometimes I expect the characters in movies (from that era) to think and act like people living NOW days might.. and it doesn't always fit. (and I think the other ladies made some good points about the whole " ideal German" woman issue, etc. There are a lot of factors to consider, I guess.
For me.. it was not so hard for me to buy into how she might have ended up "trapped" there when I started to think about how she was presented in the film very early on.. she was shown as a complete "innocent". Look at how she appears as we first see her.. all dressed in white. with the flowers in her hair.. (was she even carrying a prayer book?? I don't remember) It was almost like she was done up like some sort of "sacrificial" lamb being led to the slaughter. I imagine it never even entered her mind that harm could come to ANYONE (unless they were truly deserving of it)
And being so innocent, she was COMPLETELY unaware of the "mature" side of life (especially with regard to sex and the way men and women interact. (And I imagine the whole "swooning" thing is a "sign of the times" as well.. she was too "delicate" to withstand the situation between her and the "monster" Meinert)
And yet.. for all innocence and delicate nature.. she DID have moments of strength.. as she started to grow. She began to see the world through much less "purer" eyes.. and understand that real harm CAN come to someone even if they do not deserve it.
And when she was finally free from the reformatory.. well. it is easy to look at her and say.. WHY?? Why did you go THERE?? But again.. she trusted Osdorff.. and she trusted her friend (was her name Erika?) she was still very innocent (despite being raped and having a baby, etc.. etc) And so she was more or less .. once again.. played by "worldlier and seamier" folks and fell into the lap of some VERY unsavory people.
So why did she stay? I don't know.. And I like that she TRIED to "work" an honest job.. but why not just go out (of where she was) and get a job? I don't know. Maybe she felt like she has nowhere else to go.. and maybe she also had no trust in anyone on the outside helping her anymore than the folks where she was at already had done (look where her trust had gotten her so far) And maybe she also had no clue about how to find a job.. if she'd been "protected and pampered" all her life (before the reformatory) she might have felt she had very few "skills" to offer the job market.. her "dancing lessons" were obviously not going to get her very far.
But beyond all this.. I think the main reason she stayed.. and this is the tragedy of MANY young girls who fall into this sort of life, I believe.. then and now.. she likely may not have feltl she COULD get out of that sort of life anymore. She likely felt spoiled (in the worst sense of the word) and had few options. Where she was at... was all she knew. And she'd become a "willing" prisoner to her circumstance as a result.
We always have choices in life... even when we THINK we don't.. and really.. very few people are ever TRULY trapped into making a choice like the one she made to stay. But it is not hard to see how girls like her..who would otherwise be out on the cold street and left in a state of hunger and despair might FEEL like they were trapped into that life and could not leave it. They might even begin to feel beholden to some sort of Aunt Bee madame type (ha.. I love that name, by the way.. but OH the sad image it conjures up of the seedier side of Mayberry! ha) just because she offers them a place to stay.. clothes to wear.. food to eat.. and SOME sort of income. (and SHE was a kindly madame.. MANY others.. madames and/or pimps might be MUCH more cruel.) So at least Thymian had a "gentler" life if only in that regard.
Anyway.. I don't know if any of this makes sense or not.. but I just think that she was a "type" of character that perhaps is a perfect example of women who, throughout the ages.. (not to try and sound too dramatic) who might have fallen by the wayside because NO one cared for them.. and they had nowhere else to turn.. sad, very sad. She really was a LOST girl in that sense.
And PS.. if you find OUT about that name.. ha.. let me KNOW.. it has bugged me ever since I saw it.. ha. I kept wanting to call her Thiamine" HA!!
Travelling on the #6 train home today, I saw a father and his 2-3 year old daughter get on the train. She was in a carriage...he picked her up, put her on the seat. He had his arm around her to protect her from the bar of the seat. He let her stand up on her own, but his arm was always near. she put her arms around his neck, he kissed her little cheeks. Their stop came and they got off.
That is a LOVELY scene.. and that dad is a GOOD example of a loving father.. you know. this will sound all "soapbox-ish".. ha.. and WHEN have I ever done THAT ha) But I think there is NO greater debt we can have as human beings than the one parents owe to their children. And BOY do some people "get"that... while sadly.. so many others do not. (sigh.. I will step down off that box.. you do NOT want to get me started on that kick again.. "shades of "M" ha...)
MISS G says: I believe it takes far more strength of character and emotional strength. And one man's loving sacrifice over two thousand years ago still has the power to change people's lives
Rohanaka replies... :-)
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I'd like to have died in the first ten minutes or so of the film...when to me, the most grotesque act of the ENTIRE film took place...and it was not more than a "wink", but that wink nearly put me through the roof
OH my golly, I completely forgot about that wink.. BLECH!!!!!!!!! What a hideous, sleazy, low life.. You could almost see the slime oozing off of him.. UGH. And the dad.. UGH.. just letting him get by with it.. not even ACTING like it was wrong.. ICK!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was not joking when I said that the reason I was able to keep from crying (about all the tragedy that befell that poor girl) was because I was SO out and out FURIOUS with the folks who caused it. Oh WHERE is my brick.. I would have LOVED to throw it at the both of them.. if I aim just right, I could give it enough force that it would skim off the top of one.. and as he goes down, it would land upside the head of the other one.. OH my golly.. what a pair of monsters...
I honestly wanted nothing more than that this movie be re-directed and re-cast with JOHN WAYNE as the father and subesequently there would be fewer and better pharmacists in the world.
HA!!!! April.. if ONLY the Duke could have been her dad...
I can just picture it now.. (4 across, 6 down)
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By the way, do you like my summer look:
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha and... HA!!! Now THAT's you!! ha. (gee.. I wonder if those caps come in GREY!!!)
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Hellooooooooo Mr Grey!!!
Especially since I'm a "Meinert
OH no.. perish the thought!!! Even you.. yes YOU.. in all your "GREY/GRAY/GREY-ness appear "STERLING" next to THAT slimy low-life, utterly contemptable piece of... oh I can't even SAY the word. MY golly he has to go on a list.. ha. Where is my list of most LOTHESOME characters ever..ha. He would be on it!!
Ms Favell says: As far as I was concerned, they could have ended it with her giving the money away, because that was the strongest moment for me
Rohanaka interrupts herself: HA!! Jackie.. no WONDER I was thinking that thought (about how it would have been a good way to end it right there.. I had completely forgotten that you had mentioned this first.. duh... Movie watching minds think alike. ha.
Meanwhile, the Grey Dude replies to Jackie:
That was very good, Jackie. You're right, the film could have ended there, but I thought it was wonderful to see another person emerge as someone similar to Thymian (Louise Brooks). And The elder Count Osdorff (Arnold Korff) didn't personally suffer like Thymian, but he felt that he helped contribute to the demise of his nephew (Andr? Roanne). It was a very touching turn of events. And this leads us to the end, too
What an emotional "epilogue" to her situation. And a great way to show how deeply the uncle was affected not only by the nephew's tragic end, but also her HER former plight as well. His eyes were completely opened.. and the "LOVE" line at the end was a very fitting close to it all.
He's me! Lazy!
Ha.. maybe we should start calling you Count Shiftless.
But then I have had such a poor track record of keeping up w/ some of the chats on here myself lately... I better not point TOO many fingers. ha. (I have been a bit of a "GIANT" slack off on my rambling lately.. sigh... forgive me, Miss G!!) Like most every character in the film, "Junior" is selfish. I don't view him as a horrible person, because I do believe he initially wanted to help Thymian for the right reasons. But the moment money entered the picture, he saw the easy way out, which is his way
To me he just was so tragically lacking in any sort of "intestinal fortitude" or backbone... he could not REALLY help anyone else because he was so inept at even helping HIMSELF, which really was a shame because basically.. he was a pretty "likable" guy, for all his flaws. What a tragedy to see such a waste of human potential.
There's a lot of truth in what you say. You see, I think of Thymian's father (Josef Rovensk?) being the "protected Junior." Instead of confronting him and his improprieties, the family looked to cover them up and get rid of the "problem." They do this to Elisabeth (Sybille Schmitz) and then Thymian. They are looking to protect the money man, the "spoiled child."
OH my golly.. that dad was SUCH a loser. I hold him more responsible than just about anyone. SHE was HIS to love and guide and protect.. and he completely, thoroughly, utterly, and without a doubt let her down. What a VERY, VERY sad excuse for a parent. Thank you for posting those screencaps of the restaurant scene where they see each other and he looks like he WANTS to reach out to her.. and he LETS the others with him (Meta.. and the MONSTER) drag him away... OH that one pic of her just standing there with that man all over her as her father is watching while being dragged off.. HEARTBREAKING and INFURIATING all at the same time. (did I mention my whole "mother hen" thing that I had going on while watching this movie??? ha)
I wish I could think as well of him as you. I'm not sure what the drawings really mean but they look to suggest extravagance
I got the sense that he just wanted to be "rich" again. (I don't know if he had any business in mind or not) At any rate.. whatever his plans were.. he clearly was WAY more concerned in what that money was going to mean for HIM that what it could EVER possibly mean for Thymian. Very selfish. And I know that sounds harsh.. I DID like him (and kept hoping the best for him) but again.. he just did not have enough backbone to do the right thing by her. Selfish indeed.
I think the film speaks to trust. We all place our trust and faith in others at different points of our life. We, ourselves, are also entrusted in kind. It's what we all do with the trust of others that comes to define how good we really are. "This is my possession. What will you do with it? This is my happiness. What will you do with it? This is my heart. What will you do with it?" Those who reward your trust will find a special place with you
That was quite beautiful, Mr. Grey. (hmm.. it IS you, isn't it.. ha. Mr. "I hate mushy stuff"
) Truly though you have it exactly right.. It can be a dangerous (sometimes even LIFE threatening thing) to trust your heart to someone else. Those who reward your trust will be special to you.. but the reverse is true too as those who BREAK that trust.. especially the ones whom you love the most.. OH my gosh. the hurt sometimes can NEVER be healed. Some people just have the ability to keep moving forward and with a hopeful, positive feeling about life. It's not easy
And poor Thymian.. she had EVERY reason to never trust anyone again.. but I LOVED the fact that she still did.. and that she willingly let herself be placed under the care of Osdorff's uncle.. even after EVERYTHING she'd already been through. Again I think this shows a strenght of character that is utterly inspriing and I love that her spirit was not crushed despite the way she'd been trampled on for so long.
I actually felt that the father wanted to help his daughter but Meta overruled him. But, even after that night, he could have still gone back and found his daughter. Again, this speaks to the weakness of the man. Although, you women are so darn bossy with us! "You're choosing her over me!"
Ha.. well.. we women NEED to be bossy with SOME of you men. ha. It is the ONLY way you will listen!!
But all kidding aside... I still blame the dad for his own failings. Meta only had as much power over him as he allowed her to have. (talk about not having any BACKBONE) That was his DAUGHTER over there for crying out loud! And oh sure. he WANTED to be with her.. I think he DID miss her and care about her.. but not enough to DO anything about it. When she needed him most.. once again.. he let her down (in a HUGE and utterly AWFUL way) as he just looked away from her (while they are leading him out) like she was a stain on the carpet or something.. As the resident "mother hen" (ha) he gets ZERO sympathy from me. To be honest.. (and this TOTALLY suprised me) the one person I DID eventually start to feel some sympathy for was META. I think originally she was only out to get what she wanted for HERSELF and if that meant getting Thymian out of the picture. so be it. But BOY.. once she had those kids.. I think she saw things differently. And when she realized that Thymian could have just walked right past her and kept on going... but did not.. I think it may have really affected her for good and that she would maybe as a result become a better person for it. I'd like to THINK so anyway.. At any rate.. (and maybe I am wrong about this, I don't know) but I think she at least had a moment's regret for the hurt she caused (if only a moment's) and that has to count for something.
Rohanaka says: Ultimately.. you CANNOT make someone else do something they should do just because you want them to do it.
The Grey Guy replies: Hear, hear
Rohanaka adds a post script:
OH.. I MEANT to say.. you cannot make SOME (shadowy grey) people do something they should to just because you want them to.... you also have use a frozen rope and a hatpin.. oh.. and sometimes a giant OCTOPUS as well. HA!!!!!
Edited by: rohanaka on Nov 13, 2010 11:28 PM
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may have completely misinterpreted this
I don't know... the way I was looking at it may not be right either.. but I thought he was not so much concerned about reforming as he was about hitting the "big time" and getting his old life back. I'd need to go back and review that whole thing again.. but I recall him sitting there w/ all his little "party girl" friends laughing it up showing them the plans he had made (but I really don't recall what they were for specifically so I might have missed something) Anyway... when he found out the money was gone.. it was too much for him to bear to think how he was still "stuck" as a penniless playboy and he jumped.
Maybe IF the Grey Guy ever shows up (oh SHIFTLESS WONDER!!!!!!
) ha.. he can give us his take on it all. Either way.. what a sad, tragic.. selfish thing to do.
I was thinking last night about how REALLY.. by giving the money away.. it was the FIRST time Thymian was given ANY ownership of her own circumstances. And I like that when she DID finally have a choice (about the rest of her life and what it would be like) she STILL (despite all her tragedy) had a kind enough heart to make sure her little sister was spared her own tragedy instead. They COULD have ended the movie right there because really.. at that moment.. no matter WHAT her future held.. it was the first time Thymian was truly free. (but I am glad we got to see the ending the way that it played out instead.. it really WAS a great way to end it all)
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I don't think anyone was trying to imply that people who are against the current administration are automatically racist. No one was writing off a whole group like that
Respectfully.. the comment that was made several posts back (regarding a group of people collectively referred to as "The Tea Party) to me does seem to be doing just that. But again..that is only my opinion and I do not think this is a good place to argue for or against that point of view, so I will refrain.
As to your other comment (regarding the existence of racism today) I did acknowledge the same thing in my original post so we are in agreement. And I also said that it is not as one sided a subject as it used to be. Though it may sound a bit confusing to say it this way.. I think that racism (especially racism in this country in its present day form) seems to be an "equal opportunity" offender for many as it is found in MULTIPLE cultures and ethnic groups and aimed at numerous targets (So really, it can no longer can be viewed as just the standard "whites versus blacks" problem the way it may have been seen as in the past).
Tragically, it seems as though some people (no matter their own racial or cultural background) will always seek to find SOMETHING to dislike about one group or another.. perhaps that is human nature. But isn't it sad that so often the choice to do that is based solely on something as inconsequential as how we LOOK or who we are related to, rather than what we do or say.
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Ms Cutter says: On another note, DW Griffith was born in 1875, ten years after the end of the Civil War. The South was devastated emotionally, financially and literally.
One of the first things to come out of all of that was the building of the myth of the "Old South" being a lanquid, romantic way of life where everything was good and grand and the War (and the Yankees and the Negroes) destroyed all that. That myth conveniently overlooked the real facts of the War and the reasons for the war as well as the realities of Reconstruction. That was all replaced by the myth of the Old South and the "Moonlight and Magnolias" dream of a way of life that had never existed.
That myth got handed down not only to DW Griffith but to the majority of Southerners from Griffith to Margaret Mitchell to Molly Haskell and many others in between
Wow.. I have to say there is a LOT going on in this thread. Some of it is more disappointing to read (in terms of some folks' attitudes) than others.. but the thing that kept going through my mind was much the same idea as Ms Cutter has touched on here. Much of the issue surrounding this film is a matter of remembering that it was borne out of an ignorant perspective that pervaded much of southern culture (especially during the time this film was made).
Now before I say anything at all, I have to confess two things.. first, I have not seen this film (and likely never intend to) and also.. I quit reading this thread (backwards) when I finally reached Ms Cutter?s post (so maybe someone already mentioned what I am going to say.. so if that is true.. then forgive the repeat. But I wanted to say thanks, LZ , for helping to put this subject in perspective.
Because to me.. (based only on what little I have seen or read of it) that is what this film is... ONE perspective (right or wrong) on the events of this time in history.
I was happy to catch Moguls and Movie Stars the other night because I found the entire program to be very informative, interesting, entertaining. And I remember when the discussion turned to the subject of Birth of a Nation, I found myself thinking then (about the controversial subject matter) that it all more or less had to do with the perspective of the people making the film.
Not to defend the **** or folks who agree with them (past, present, or future) in ANY way... but there WAS a lot of devastation that happened to the average (and lower than average.. meaning income) people in that area of the country during and following the Civil War. And though some might think "Well. that's what they deserved for living in an area that was so racist and hate filled" I would have to disagree. Not ALL of the tragedy that befell people (of Caucasian race) was justified or deserved. I would even go further and say that just as there were GREAT injustices done to the people of African American descent in our nation.. there were also MANY injustices done to others in the south during that time as well.
And no matter how wrong.. I can see how SOME of these people could have been ignorant and misguided enough to think that the evil and hideous acts of groups like the **** were good. (at least until enough people became better educated about the REAL evil intentions of such groups.. Good gravy.. one thing that I think we all can say for certain is that history DOES eventually teach us about how things we ONCE thought to be true may NOT be so true afterall.. if we are willing to look and listen)
So truthfully, I believe that ignorance was the REAL perpetrator for much of the "myth" of the "old south" But isn't that the case with MOST myths that live on and prosper? My golly.. at the time this film was made.. the history books had not even been WRITTEN on this subject yet. (or if they had.. they were few and far between) And if truth (about this.. or anything really) is kept down by ignorance (either willful or not) then how can anyone (apart from an objective look back at historical fact) truly KNOW what really happened unless they were there?
Back in this period of history (really only a few decades before this film was made) there were not any sorts of "24 hour" cable news shows doing investigative reports on "INSIDE the REAL ****" etc, etc so people had to rely on their own experience and what they heard passed down from one person to the next about who the **** was.. and what their real agenda was all about (especially if they could not read.. or what they were told by the local press.. if they did not have access to newspapers from anywhere outside their own local area)
So myths WERE likely based on some ignorant person's point of view... and allowed to grow and prosper for some time by other (whether willfully or not) ignorant people. That is NOT a new thing in human history. It has happened for centuries (for reasons either good or bad) and not just in the south.... and not just over issues having to do with race. .
I do not believe that anyone living in today's "educated" society has any real concept (based on personal or practical experience) of what it must have been like for the people living and growing up then (Caucasian or African American) to hear first hand accounts from actual participants in daily events that happened before, during, and after the Civil War.
So having said all that, (even though I have never seen the film) I am thinking, GEE.. maybe we need to keep the PERSPECTIVE of the people who made this movie in perspective ourselves if we are to truly understand it.
Is Birth of a Nation a propagandized piece of fiction that is based solely on a hyped up and highly emotional perspective of the "glorified" south? Since I can't base my opinion on having WATCHED the movie.. I can only guess that it most likely is just that.
But I will also add that (especially NOW days) t is also likely just that and little more.
Do I agree with the point of views expressed in this film? NO. Do I think it is GOOD for the people who made this film to believe the way they did? NO. But neither do I believe there were any sorts of "sinister" motives.. or evil intent to infiltrate and possibly even change people's thinking on this subject.
In fact, (though I clearly have no way of knowing it) it would not surprise me to learn that the director even expected the viewer to agree with him already. Because that would be more in keeping with the sort of ignorance this film seems to be all about (but who am I to say.. this is only my opinion, and I am certainly no authority on the subject) This film MAY well be a perfect display of the (perhaps willfully) ignorant mindset of some in our nation's history.. (and I freely admit I do not know this for CERTAIN) but I do not believe (especially veiwed from today's perspectives) that is is anything more than that.
To say it should not be shown because it may cause some folks to embrace racism (or that others might be offended by its racist message) is not leaving any room for the sort of THOUGHTFUL way this film COULD be viewed and discussed objectively from an historical perspective, and that is a shame.
History (good or bad) is only valuable if it is allowed to be shown in all its "UGLY" along with all it's glory.. and racism (especially the type discussed in this film) is an UGLY part of our history as a nation.. and yes.. does still exist in various forms in our current society as well. (though it is NOT at all as one sided a subject as it may have been in the past) But to say that simply showing this film.. or discussing it is going to spread any sort of hatefull message that someone isn't already feeling in their heart to begin with.. to me is a form of ignorance itself as well. At the very least I see it as an attempt to censor people from thinking for themselves. To me, it would be a GOOD thing to give at least a LITTLE credit to those who do want to discuss this film to be MATURE enough to figure out what is right and wrong to think for themselves. And I value and appreciate this chance TO discuss it even though I have not seen it for myself.. so for that reason alone, I am glad TCM brought this film along as a part of their series on Moguls and Movie Stars.
So a having said ALL that.. I guess what I am saying now would be (to those who only see this film as some sort of heinous mouthpiece for the director to spew and propagate his hate and bigotry and believe that Birth of a Nation is NOT worthy of viewing or discussion as a part of filmmaking history in general)... Oh for pity's sake.. lighten up.
(But feel free to disregard my suggestion as we are all certainly entitled to our own opinions)
At any rate to echo what (I think it was) Mr. Dobbs has said.. for those who think it is not worthy of being watched.. maybe you are right.. so don't watch it. (again..never having seen it, I can't say for sure)
And I will also say this (keeping in mind that I am no authority on the matter.. and I am speaking only from my OWN personal perspective) To me.. this film DOES deserve a place in any historical account of early film making if only to serve as an ugly reminder of what ignorance (be it willful or otherwise) can produce.. and so for that reason alone (if one does not want to consider it's value as a "classic film") perhaps it IS still valuable to be viewed from THAT perspective.
(And as a side note to those who would deem it worthy to go off topic and malign the character of an entire group of people by calling them "racist" simply because they disagree with the current administration's politics and agenda.. I can only say.. Gee... thank you for sharing your OWN perfect display of willful ignorance. At least that is how I see it... others are certainly entitled to disagree. But dear me.. this is hardly the time and/or the place to go THERE so just for the record, I truly would not be interested in a discussion along those lines.. at least not HERE anyway)
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when personal responsibility is avoided, evil happens
That's it exactly. And BOY, did everyone avoid their responsibility.. at least everyone but little Thymian. What a dear girl with such an abiding goodness.
I don't know how she was able to rise above all she went through and (despite all the bad experiences she endured) she kept her integrity in tact. What a MEAN and cruel hand she was dealt by the actions of others.. and yet not a mean nor cruel bone in her body when it was over.. amazing.
His death was so useless, and you're right, so unexpected! I wished he had waited one moment, until Thymian came to him - I think she could have helped him, I really do. She had such strength of character, maybe she could have lent him some of hers
I'd like to imagine she could have helped him.. but do not know.... I just saw so little proof in him that he was able to overcome his own "playboy" mindset and "grow up"
I love how she tells him what she did with the money.. What a selfless and amazing choice for someone in her shoes to make. And she is so HAPPY about her choice (despite the fact that it left her just as destitute and "stuck" in the same old life). Meanwhile HE jumps out the window. Go figure.
With that sort of range between them.. For her to be a help to him (in terms of building a stronger character) she'd likely have had to be almost a miracle worker.
I like that Thymian really did not let her situation dictate her heart. Instead.. she let her heart dictate how she responded to each situation. That may be what helped her rise above it all and not grow bitter.
HE, on the other hand was more concerned about "stuff" and having the creature comforts and plenty of entertainment all around him. It would have been a LOT to lose (when he was disowned by the uncle) and yet instead of learning a lesson and moving forward w/ it.. he just more or less let the whole thing do him in. (or at least cause him to do himself in) What a shame.
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Congrats to you, Mr. "In Hollywood" for another really terrific Movie Poster thread. You truly do a remarkable job finding some amazing and captivating pics!!
So far my fave has to be today's for The Wild Goose Chase. I don't know a thing about the movie (though judging from the picture, it looks like it could be fun) but really, it is my fave so far just because I just like the way it looks.
Also really like those handbills.. way cool. (and love the Hart posters too, by the way)
Thanks very much for all the hard work you put into these threads of yours. I don't get a chance to look in everyday, but when I do.. it is always a treat!
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Hi there, little missy!!!
I thought that the ladies needed a kick in the rear.... the more I think about it, the more I think they WANTED to be deluded - they wanted to pay their money for good works that they didn't have to dirty their hands with, so they could feel good about themselves. You hit it on the head when you say that they needed to figure out WHAT was the best thing for these girls, since they actually had no clue about life
They needed a wake up call for sure. I think you are right in that they likely did not want to "sully" their lily white hands to insure that their good works really WERE good. It was more about that whole "oh what a kind and generous soul I have" feeling they got for their efforts. But OH the great tragedy that was the real end result of what they were doing.
Charity IS a good thing.. but just blindly giving money out to someone because they spin a good yarn about helping others is a recipe for disaster in some circumstances. There should have been SOME sort of "oversight" to ensure they were getting what they were really paying for. but NO one was concerned enough to even THINK about checking up on anyone else.. pretty much the whole MOVIE was like that come to think of it.
In fact, a recurring theme that I just kept seeing over and OVER again in this movie was how a lack of accountability (both for one's own actions.. and also for the actions of others) REALLY was a dangerous thing.
Sooner or later all the little chickens running around out there in our daily lives DO come home to roost (if you will pardon the expression) and there is an end result for every choice that is made (either by us.. or for us) in this world. And I noticed that most of the people in this film just went about more or less doing as they saw fit with NO worries at all about how all their little "chickens" all seemed to end up roosting on the shoulders of poor little Thymian. So long as everyone got what they wanted (even the society ladies got SOMETHING if you think of it.. a sense of having done their "duty" to the poor, so to speak) then no one THOUGHT about who was really paying the PRICE for it all.
Look at the first best example.. the dad. Not only did HE have no sense of accountabilty for is own actions, but the "family elders" did not keep him accountable for his indiscretions either (The very beginning of the movie shows how he just went from one housekeeper to another until one FINALLY got him on her "hook" so to speak)
And then, the pharmacist.. OH my gosh... who was keeping HIM accountable??? (NObody!!!) He was free to do more or less ANYTHING and everything.. and he pretty much did. (UGH, what a slimy guy!!)
And OH that poor Count Jr. His uncle (or at least his other family) did NOT try to keep him accountable until it was too LATE for any sort of accountability to help him get his act together. And as a result it made a bad situation worse (for Thymian) and it drove the young count to suicide even.
And then of course.. the society ladies had NO sense of accountability.. either TO the young girls they were trying to help.. or FOR the people they were giving their money to (the MONSTERS running the reformatory (who were.. OH my golly.. clearly in their own little "torture chamber world" and loving every minute of it.. until I guess the victims of their torture finally had enough)
Good gravy! Most of this film was just one huge "accountability" deserted wasteland!
And LOOK at all the damage that happened as a result. Poor Thymian was more or less trampled underneath by EVERYONE else because there was no one keeping anyone in check. Instead, they ALL more or less had a hand in keeping HER... not in check but ENSLAVED to their own irresponsibility.
As a result, she was the victim of her father (and his new wife).. the family "elders", the pharmacist, the reformatory workers, the madame, and even the well meaning society women.
I would even go so far as to say she was Osdorf Jr''s victim too (in a way) He made her THINK he could help her.. and even TRIED to help her.. but his help was so weak it did little good at all. And when he saw he was taking on more than he could chew (in finding a solution for her) he just gave up, leaving her with no options (or at least very few)
More or less, either directly.. or indirectly.. she was made a virtual slave to her circumstances by EACH of these folks who were just going along out there doing whatever they saw fit any way they wanted. And I imagine most of them did not even realize (or if they DID realize they did not care about) the harm they were causing this poor girl. (Well, obviously SOME of them were less "ignorant" of the harm they had caused than others) But truly.. the more "willful evil of the more sinister folks (like the pharmacist, the reformatory workers, etc) was only made possible by the ignorance and lack of care from the people who were supposed to care for her the most. Very tragic indeed.
I think with Osdorf, it would have taken more effort than anyone in his family had to give... he would have needed to go back to the beginning, taking time to learn a profession of some kind, and to learn the discipline to stick to it.... a taskmaster, but one with realistic aims and a kind, warm and loving, but firm hand. Someone to guide, not force him to do something. I think you, peacemaker probably could have shaped him up in no time!
Ha.. well.. I don't know.. I have such a poor track record with some of the "hard cases" around here,ha.. (You know.. like the "shadowy grey kind) I may lose my Peacemaker license. (perish the thought.. HA!) But maybe I have been too easy on him.. ha. I guess you either have to whip some folks into shape.. or just break out the rope. HA!
All kidding aside, I just don't know WHAT the right solution would have or could have been for Osdorf. He really seemed to have NO backbone (or interest) in taking on responsibility much at all. (in fact given the way he more or less ended up for most of the story.. I am suprised he was able to even do what little he DID manage to do for Thymian)
It is easy to look at the uncle and say he let his nephew down.. but I don't know. He DID try to help him.. but again.. it was TOO late to try and change someone who had NEVER been taught any better. So in that sense, the real "letting" down for Osdorf Jr happened long before the uncle disowned him.
And I do believe some folks CAN learn later in life (if they have the "inner stuff" that makes them WANT to change.. but many folks NEVER learn that lesson. And I guess Osdorff was that sort of guy.
And sadly I have some personal experience with this, as I know a couple of people (very well) who have spent most of their lives fleeing responsibility for their own choices and actions..and it is a very sad thing to see indeed. And I have come to learn something very important in my dealings with these two people: No matter HOW much you love someone (and I do love both these people like family.. because they ARE family) Sometimes...if a person does not WANT to change.. all the love and patience and "working with them" in the world will just fall on deaf ears.
And I guess that is why I said it CAN be possible to over-love someone. In the wrong hands.. all that love and "encouragement" to try and help them just enables them to continue to dodge their own consequences. And sometimes .. (and UGH. it is an ugly painful thing) the real "loving" thing is to let them go their own way.. And then, whatever happens happens.
I think if a person really WANTS to make something of themselves and get out of a bad situation then they deserve a chance to get all the help they can (especially from family and those who love them) But... if a person just keeps hanging on to the same old BAD choices and falling into the same wasted "thrill" seeking behavior and dodging all responsibility in the pursuit of their own personal (so-called) happiness.. then there comes a time (after expending all fair and reasonable attempts to help them) that you have to let them go and let the chips fall where they may.
And I do not say this lightly. There are NO easy answers. And I have to also say that "Disown" is an UGLY word. So I don't think I could EVER do that to someone I love. (And I do not understand anyone who could) But I CAN see how it could be possible to let someone you love (who willfully chooses to keep remaining in the same bad behavior) chose their own path, and then, no matter how much it hurts, if tragedy is the end result.. then sadly that will be the end result.
Ultimately.. you CANNOT make someone else do something they should do just because you want them to do it. (and believe me when I say.. it IS heartbreaking to go through watching that person fall) but MAYBE (sometimes) when they DO finally fall.. it will be what is needed to finally turn them around.
That is the story of the prodigal son. And I LOVE the way that the Father in that story is just literally WAITING (and hoping), looking down the long dusty road for the long lost son to return. (and of course I also love the way he welcomed him back with NO hesitation whatsoever.. no words of "Well, it's about time you learned your lesson, young man" etc) Just love.. and a willingness to forgive on the father's part. And just TRUE and genuine repentence and a willingness to make things right on the part of the son. Now THAT is the dream of every parent who has a child who is "lost" to them.. or at least it should be anyway.
(But GOLLY.. having said all that, if they do not come back.. you have to hope they do not one day decide to just throw their papers up in the air with no warning at all and take a header out the nearest open window, though... OH good gravy.. I never saw THAT coming!!) Good golly.. did I mention there are no easy answers???
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The Hanging Tree
...is coming to TCM!!!
Yippee!!! Nice to see this one "dusted off" to be shown soon. It is a very overlooked gem of a movie. I am glad to see it getting some well deserved attention, for sure!
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Hello there Pirate Dude.. thanks for the fun post on Myrna and her horse!!
What a lovely senorita she was!! (that would be Myrna.. ha... not the horse!! ha.. though it IS lovely too, I am sure!) I am glad to see you diving in to the westerns, sir. And I like you are finding the "rarer" finds, too.. way cool. ROTRG is not one I have heard of before, but it sounds as it if were a fun one.
OH.. and speaking of "El Malo".... PS: Grey Dude!!! (HA!)
You (and others) have a nice chat going on w/ The Bravados. Very interesting post, sir.. and the screencaps you chose have really piqued my curiosity even more.
This one is on my wanna see list for sure.
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Hiya Rey.. thanks for posting these. Way cool.
I once (way back in the very late 80's) drove w/ my brother and some friends from Kansas City to Telluride for a Bluegrass festival.. I love that whole area. I wish we could have traveled around a bit and seen even MORE of it than we got to. It was a pretty quick trip so we did not really get to do much more than look as we drove past everything.. but BOY was it gorgeous when we got there. Our trip was over way too soon.. but I have always remembered how nice it was out there in those mountains.
Thanks again for posting.
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*Diary of LOST SPOILERS*:
Oh little darlin'.. my eyes are so blurry from staying up so late last night to finish watching. But I had to see what her ultimate outcome would be.. oh me.
thought it was really good, but I wasn't so sure up until the final ten minutes of the movie. I was very surprised at how moved I was by the ending
I liked the character (Thymian) more than I liked the movie as a whole. She really was something. And if I had not found her (and her situation) so compelling, I might not have stayed up so late finishing the film. But I truly did hang on simply because I HAD to find out what happened to her. And I was like you.. the ending was pretty emotional.
But I felt that (emotional tug) pretty much throughout.. at least for Thymian, anyway. She really was such a poor little "lost thing" and yet VERY strong in spirit all at the same time. And I was surprised (at myself) that I was able to keep my emotions together so well at some of her more tragic moments (considering how MUCH she went through and for so long) but I think the reason I was able to hold it in check for so long was that my anger (at her circumstances and all the poor treatment, abuse, and neglect she received (especially by the ones who should have loved her the most) was so HOT that it outweighed the compassion I felt for her (and that is what kept my tears in check) I don't know if that makes sense.. ha.. but let's just say my "mother hen" came out in me and all I wanted to do was protect her and get her OUT of that mess. But again.. like you said... the ending really got me. Then the tears finally did flow and I had a good long cry after it was all over.
But OH boy.. it was close a few times.... when they took that baby.. I almost lost it then for sure. (but again.. I got mad and it overruled my "sad" if only ever so slightly)
I liked that the underworld characters seemed a little bit nicer than the upper classes, but then in the end Thymian realized they were not really any better
They certainly were "equal opportunity" users and abusers. Almost the entire cast would have to rate among the most vile and lecherous bunch I can ever recall in a story like this. There were a few kind people in among the monsters.. but OH my golly, they were few and far between. And you are right.. it was coming from BOTH sides.. the haves and the have nots.. the upper class and the lower. There were good souls and bad to be found in each.
I liked that Thymian did not let her horrible past drag her down.... she was a survivor, and not only a survivor, but a great woman, who gained strength from her troubles
I agree.. I like how she overcame it all with her own genuine goodness and her pureness of heart still in tact. She never let them lower her to their level.. even when she WAS (more or less forced to be) at their level, she still managed to keep her spirit above it all. I truly admired her for that.
The character that gave me the most confusion was the boy - Count Osdorff junior. I wasn't sure what his deal was... I guess he was just another of those sad, bloodless, overbred spoiled boys who are unable to get it together to help themselves. He was a parasite, but I liked him. He had a good heart. I wasn't epecting his despair and plunge out the window, which I thought was the best directed scene in the whole movie
What a tragic guy. I was SO angry at him after they left that reformatory. The way he more or less let her land out of the frying pan into the fire. Oh sure.. he helped her escape.. but he had NO concept of what was needed to even help himself live out in the real world.. so I guess he was lost in terms of having any idea how to help HER as well. And the way he let her fall into the life she ended up with... even helped in the "celebration" of it all.. OH I just wanted to hit him with a big brick.. right upside the head, ha. I kept HOPING he would prove to be a decent guy.. but he really only had just SO much backbone in him and I guess it was all used up just getting her free from the reformatory, I suppose.
And when he was at the end of his rope, (figuratively speaking) I thought it was just so (oh for LACK of a better word) "ridiculous" for him to jump so suddenly like that.One minute he is laughing it up making plans for his future.. and the next minute "kersplat"?? That just did not ring very true. But I guess they had to resolve his part in the story SOMEHOW to get her to the next place she would finally end up at herself. Still.. utterly wasted are the only two words I can use to describe his life.. very sad.
But wow.. I really liked the uncle. OH my golly. I was not sure how to read HIM at all. Was he a heartless old rich man? (like he MIGHT have proven himself to be w/ his nephew? Or did he just make the wrong choice (in cutting him off and expecting THAT to wake him up?) What IS the right thing to do w/ someone like Osdorff Jr? It is one thing to unconditionally love someone.. but it is also another thing to "over -love" them and enable their bad behavior. So I guess I can see why he cut him off the way he did.. but it was just too late for him to use it as "character builder". There was just SO very little character there to build on. He had been given so much FREEDOM from responsibility for so long.. he was utterly USELESS as a responsible adult. No one ever taught him how to do anything when he was young (except play and have fun) so who could expect him to know how to be able to handle real life when it showed up?
It was a sort of sad take on the whole "prodigal son" story.. only this time the "son" (or nephew) was forced to leave (instead of leaving on his own) and he never wised up enough to come back and repent.. very sad. Such a waste.
And I loved how the Uncle (out of the regret that he had over his nephew) stepped in to help Thymian in the end. (All with NO questions asked) Talk about an emotional moment. But truly.. she had just been so much.. I spent the first few minutes after that waiting for the other shoe to fall so to speak. I wasn't sure if the uncle could be trusted or not. I was SO glad when he proved to be THE stand up guy he was appearing to be. And wow, I admired him so much as he said his closing line.It truly reinforced the depth of character and the sadness he felt over the loss of his nephew. (and I think also the love he now felt for Thymian as his neice) And I like how he just completely reinforced her statement of only just a moment before as he was walking out.
You know they both really NAILED the real need that was so lacking in the whole entire PROCESS those ladies were trying to work under. "Good Works" done in ignorance (of what the need TRULY is).. as Thymian said, and "righteous teaching" and "discipline" applied without love are of little or NO use at all (in terms of how they truly affect those whom you are trying to teach or help) In fact.. more often than not.. they cause far more damage than they prevent in the end of things. Very sad waste of time and effort on the part of what I truly do believe may have been the otherwise well meaning society women.
need all the help I can get here with Bowie the kid
Ha.. well THAT is a "need" we know all too well.
(and I don't think there is a "reformatory" school open anywhere around these parts yet for Shiftless Rambler Shadow Dudes.. but if there WERE.. ha. He could be their first "inmate" ha. So I guess until THAT happens.. I will just have to go put another rope in the freezer (Oh, and maybe I will have to go sharpen my hatpin too! This IS the torture thread, afterall!! ha)
Edited by: rohanaka on Nov 8, 2010 7:10 PM
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Parts of it did sound rather modern.. but a lot of it was very "traditional" sounding too. It was an interesting score. Very amazing film, too, by the way.
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I think I said earlier in the thread that I had decided that Harry was a rat - I mean that almost literally -He lives high off of other people, unconcerned about the garbage he creates, he escapes to the sewers....etc. No wonder that cat likes him
And there you have it. THAT is the perfect description of him. ha. No matter how likable a fellow he might have SEEMED to be.. OH what a rat he was (UNDERneath it all)
But I had to go on it, it could have been the same cabin that Orson and Joseph Cotten were in!
Wouldn't THAT have been something!! Too bad you could not have found a long lost "carving" somewhere where they scratched their names in it. HA!! ("Orson and Joe were here") ha!
Now see? It is like M. I am so glad you saw that in it. It has a balloon man too. That shot of Harry's fingers, with nothing but wind on the soundtrack.... wow! Is there another shot so vivid in the movies
It is so sad and so pathetic. I was thinking the other night that if you JUST saw the final scenes playing out in that sewer (and did not have the whole rest of the movie to watch first) he would be SO sympathetic it would make it VERY VERY easy to even CHEER for him to get away. It was almost that heartbreaking. Without the proper context (of the whole entire DOT thing, for example) he was literally almost HEARTbreaking with those little leaves rustling around out there along the pavement as he fingers were only grasping at the freedom he would never have again. VERY poignant. But of course. ha... we DO have the context and I imagine you are right.. the "dot" thing was likely the LAST thing on his mind. (except that I wonder if he was MAYBE finally gettting a feel for what it was like for his chickens to come home to roost) I mentioned this the other day.. WHAT a fitting end for someone so low.
wonder if Holly wrote better books afterwards? Maybe he quit writing altogether. I can't exactly picture the "after" in this movie. We are left with no future to feel good about. Just dead leaves
I don't know. I get a feeling for Holly that he IS going to move forward (even if Anna left him in the dust) I like the almost "lackadaisical" way he is leaning there waiting for her. Even though she has just walked away. It gives me hope for him that he is going to roll with the punches anyway. And I like the idea that he would become a better author as a result of all he just experienced. (I like how he says earlier on that "I'm writing my next book now.. it's called the Third Man" or something like that.. as he is trying to be "subtle" and yet "crystal clear" all at the same time. He definitely DOES grow as a person throughout the story.. which sort of culminates with him taking that gun and walking so purposefully through that tunnel.
You made me gasp at the thought that maybe Harry did it! I have always seen it that Harry gave his permission to Holly to shoot him, because he knows Holly will be kind. As much as I LOVE your idea that there is a question about who did the shooting (and you really made me think about it!), I don't think Harry could have killed himself. He loved himself too much and was a weakling, really. He did not want to die. And if Holly didn't shoot him, then Holly would not have really grown up, and he wouldn't have felt the betrayal of his best friend, no matter how reprehensible Harry was
I am sure you have it just right. But ha.. I just like to hold onto that "nagging little seed of doubt" sometimes. ha. I guess it is just my imagination working overtime, ha. think I just enjoy wondering "what if". But I do usually lean toward Holly pulling the trigger and I imagine that ultimately it is just as you say.. Deep down, Harry was a coward.. AND you are right.. he loved himself too much
Edited by: rohanaka on Nov 8, 2010 4:31 AM
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Howdy there, Kid!
I am always a big fan of movies with ironic music
Ironic! That is the perfect word for it. It just doesn't FIT with the story.. and yet.. It is PERFECT!!!
There is something so good natured and energetic about the way Harry betrays every last bit of trust Holly has in him, and the music somehow portrays that - it sounds like the dizzy feeling of falling into bed, just as you are about to wake up from a nightmare
That is a great way to say it. (the dizzy feeling) And you are so right about Harry too. That is what makes him (to me) so VERY hideous.. his "good natured" way of being so evil.. very sinister.
I love Joseph Cotten too. It's very hard to just play a normal, even foolish, guy. Cotten is perfect, because he just lets stuff happen to him. Whenever he actually tries to act, it turns out all wrong. Every single thing he thinks, the opposite turns out to be true. He's a noble man in an ignoble world, very much a Don Quixote. I never thought of the comparison before , but I think it's a good one
I am only "familiar" with the whole Quixote story (but have never read it.. or seen the film) but I imagine you are right on the money. And I like the word "foolish" too, to describe Holly. For all his good natured ways, and the fact that he was such a decent guy.. he was a pretty easy victim (for Harry to take advantage of). Poor Holly. What a bad lot he fell into. It is easy to see where we make bad decsions (to trust or not trust) someone AFTER the fact.. but sometimes it is way to easy to put your faith in the wrong "friend" when you are suddenly thrust in the middle of things like he was.
The Third Man is totally a balancing act. Tip the scale too far or too heavily one way, and the whole thing falls apart. The movie is so perfect, I don't want to think of anyone else in the role!
That is a good way to describe it. It is almost like a seesaw.. going back and forth, up and down. And if the heavy person gets off too soon.. whammo. You go flipping up in the air. I kept waiting for someone to go flying over head any moment.
He's slimy, but the truth is, I STILL like him. And that is what it's all about, isn't it?
He had such a 'way" about him it really WAS easy to see how he instilled such loyalty in people. He really was a likeable bad guy that way. His face was just so amiable.. and his manner of speaking was just so "smooth" . He almost "purred" No WONDER the cat loved him so much. He was so "cat like" himself. But OH me.. scratch the surface, ha. A WHOLE other animal underneath.
Did I say I've ridden on that ride? I got a chill when I stepped into the compartment. And there were no safety locks or anything, even when I was there. Yikes!
Yikes indeed!! ha. You are braver than ME for sure. (I am not much of a carnival person.. but gee... I DO love a good cotton candy so I have to go ONCE in a while just for that. HA!)
SPOILER ALERT:
The sound is incredible in this movie. Someone else, maybe fredCdobbs? talked about the voices in the different tunnels, when they are hunting for Harry. And the gunshots - the one that always gets me is when Sergeant Paine goes down. He is a wonderful character, so completely nice that, if you hadn't already realized how awful Harry was, that act alone would put the nail in Harry's coffin for the audience. Harry has to go! He shot that nice Sergeant!
Oh man.. when the Sergeant went down.. I was M-A-D mad! ha. I really liked him a LOT. (talk about a "decent" guy) But you know.. I have to say... those folowing scenes.. where Harry was at the end of his rope and those little stubby fingers were slipping up through the gates of the manhole cover.. and he is TOTALLY trapped... I have to confess.. as MUCH as I was ready for him to pay the piper.. I DID feel sorry to see him so "alone". I had NO idea I could EVER find any sympathy for him at all like that. but shock of shocks.. I DID. (very much in the same way that I felt sorry for poor Peter Lorre in "M".. though I still find it amazing I could even cal him POOR.. after all the evil he had done.)
Dadgum these movies that make me THINK like that... ha. OH WHERE is my easy "white hat" moment at a time like THIS?? ha.
But really.. that feeling only lasted a moment for me, because it IS pretty easy to say "HOORAY!" when he goes down.. even though I felt just the tiniest twinge of "sorry" for him. Despite all his "nice" ways, he was a MONSTER and he had to be dealt with.. NO question about it.
Maybe that was the difference between Holly and Anna. They BOTH cared about Harry.. they were BOTH loyal to him and they BOTH were on his side even (once they found out he was alive) the difference is that Holly finally came to see the "monster" in him and knew he had to be stopped.. whereas Anna (even if she DID see it) was more forgiving. Even at the end of it all, Holly is still calling out to him to give up.. trying to encourage him NOT to have to end things badly. But BOY, I liked the look on Holly's face when he takes that gun out of the dead Sergeant's hand and starts to walk away. His shoulders are squared and he knows that only ONE of them is going to get out of that tunnel alive. (at least that is the way it seemed to me)
And I liked that you don't SEE the final shooting. I MAY be making too much of this, (and have just missed something obvious) but when Holly walks out of the shadows, I always catch myself wondering (if only for a moment) "WHO fired the shot?"
The look on both men's faces SEEMS to indicate that it was Holly. And that is the way I usually lean.. and yet I still wonder. I MAY need to go back and watch again. It COULD be that I am just missing something or imagining scenarios that aren't there... But that part of the movie ALWAYS sets me to thinking: COULD Harry have "offed"himself??
Because to me.. just a little bit (and without words and using ONLY the expressions on their faces) it could almost go either way. It looked at different times like BOTH men COULD be giving each other permission. (or it seems that way to me) But I still lean more toward Holly pulling the trigger in the end.
But (and I confess, ha.. it may just be my imagination is working overtime) I truly do see a scenario where it COULD have played out the other way (with Harry killing himself) There is just enough of a question mark there for me to never be quite sure... and that always bugs me because.. ha... you know me.. as I like to say.. "Inquiring minds wanna know".
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OH Jackie.. your post made me remember that this was one of the youtubes I had been waiting to watch (sometime.. always sometime.. ha) Anyway.. at leastI have it started now and have made it past the 4th part. OH my goodness.. what an emotional story.. and somehow I think I am just getting started.... (I am hoping I can finish up tonight.. but don't know if I will make it or not. At any rate.. I have GOT to watch the rest of it now.. it really has me hooked.)
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Miss Maven says: Hey, I watched a Western
Monsieur Laffite replies: So did I?and so I have been?of late
And John T wonders:
Meanwhile, Rohanaka exclaims: WOO HOO!!!!
I love seeing you folks over here on the western side of town!!! (and PS: I only WISH I had seen the Bravados.. I have been enjoying reading about it though) Thanks everybody for giving me yet ANOTHER movie to look forward to watching sometime.
As for the other films mentioned.. I l-o-v-e LOVE Rio Bravo.. not my MOST fave Duke western.. but one of my most faves for sure. (and likely tied w/ Only Angels Have Wings for my most fave Hawks film.. MAYBE)
Anyway.. Mr Pirate.. feel free to chime in on that one anytime. I remember the chat we had on it.. it was a fun ramble for sure.. but I agree w/ the other folks.. new thoughts are always welcome.
Edited by: rohanaka on Nov 7, 2010 4:25 PM
Western Movie Rambles
in Westerns
Posted
Oh wait.. did I say just watch TTM???
I MEANT to say.. just watch TTM AND..... Oklahoma.. ha. (Judd Frey is your kinda guy, Sherrif Layne!)