[The Third Man and Carol Reed]

No need to walk the plank on this one, sir.. HA! But I hope you DO get a chance to watch it sometime soon. It is a terrific film. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on it!! (and PS: if I had to admit all the films I have never seen.. oh golly.. the outrage!! ha. (I would be drummed out of the "so you call yourself a classic movie watcher" club for SURE) HA!

[The Third Man and Carol Reed]

HELLLLLLLLLLLLLO MS Favell.... or should I say.. " Hello, my little Oklahoma Kid!!" (ha. I have called you that nickname before, but that was the first time I recognized the title of the book they kept showing in this movie as they were talking about him being an author, ha! When I saw it, i IMMEDIATELY thought of YOU! ha) Too funny..

 

Excuse me while I blow a little bit of dust of this thread of yours, if I may.

 

I recently got the chance to re-watch The Third Man. I had seen it back about a year or so ago, but have never really gotten the chance to chat on it. .and so now AFTER getting to see it again.. I just want to say.. WOO HOO, what a movie!

 

I want to go back and re-read this thread (sometime) but in the meantime.. if I may... I have some "blabbish" thoughts that have been rolling around on the tip of my tongue just dying to get out, ha. (or should I say.. on the tips of my fingers.. ha)

 

First of all.. before I go too far.. I want to mention that I absolutely L-O-V-E love the music in this film. And I have to start out talking about it simply because it is SUCH a strange and yet completely PERFECT choice of music, played all throughout the story. Jaunty.. and a bit "off kilter" with the dark and menacing themes of the story.. but then.. the whole MOVIE has that sort of feel to it as well. It is almost "topsy turvey" with the way it is filmed at so many odd sorts of angles. It leaves me with a decidedly " whole world gone askew" feeling. (And I am sure this is intentional as that is LIKELY how Holly felt as he made his way from moment to moment throughout the entire story)

 

Now from here on out, I will be mentioning some things about the plot as I go along with my "blabbing" so reader beware...

 

*Possible SERIOUS SPOILAGE ahead*

 

Wowsa.. this is one of my all time fave rolls for Joseph Cotten. He really is something in this film. He is more or less just a decent guy.. caught up in stuff he NEVER dreamed would happen to someone like him. Very unsuspecting (of the mess he has walked into and been made a part of) VERY determined to get to the bottom of things (once he believes there is more to the story than he is being told) and VERY VERY committed to finding the truth (and then EVENTUALLY commited to STOPPING Orson Welles) once the truth comes out. Ok.. so maybe he needed a "nudge" now and then from the British.. ha. but he DID make up his mind.. eventually. And alll the while he is looking out for the poor girl (Anna) caught in the middle of it all. What a great character and what a terrific role for Cotten.

 

I had heard (from one of the commentaries on the film) that somewhere along the line James Stewart was considered for the role of Holly.. I can see that as a good choice.. but WOW... as MUCH as I like Stewart (and I DO like him a lot) I think this HAS to just be Cotten's role. He did a stand out job.

 

And THEN.. there is Orson Welles... OH MY GOLLY! If this film is among my faves for Cotten.. I think I would have to rate it my MOST fave for Welles. GOOD gravy does he ever just "sink" into the character. He doesn't even really appear in the story at all (except the shadows perhaps) until LONG after the movie has started and really only has just a very few "moments" on screen. But BOY oh boy, he makes VERY good use of them.

 

UGH.. that Harry Lime. WHAT a low-life, down right MONSTROUS dirtbag!! Bone chilling. EVIL to the core. Talk about pathological.. That "boyish" face with the "Cheshire Cat" smile.. OH my gosh.. bone chilling doesn't even begin to describe it.

 

His shining moment of course is the conversation he has with Cotten's character (Holly) on that carnival ride ((and I LOVE how Holly grabs ahold of the post the minute he finds out that his former friend MIGHT be ready to do more than talk) And then when Lime writes Anna's name on the window.. and taps the window to draw Holly's attention to it.. YIKES!!. Did I mention he was bone chilling?? (and yet SEEMINGLY harmless all at the same time)

 

And he had NO concern for ANYONE but himself. And NO concern for the evil he was doing to the most innocent of victims. The little speech he gives on the carnival ride (about the "dots" that ends with the whole 'cuckoo clock" thing) GOOD GOLLY what a menace... I just wanted to jump through the TV screen and push HIM out of that ride myself!!

 

And boy... it REALLY made me think of something far too close to home. We had a HUGE trial several years ago in the KC area with a pharmacist who was selling BAD chemo drugs ( he watering them down to make more money off of them) Several of the patients who bought the medicine from him died (and might not have if they had received the proper dosage, etc) so it was a REALLY big trial around here.

 

In the end he was convicted and sentenced for his crimes.. and I hope he has a GOOD long time to think about (and pay for) what he did. But I have to say.. I just don't know of an earthly punishment BAD enough for someone who would get rich off of the pain and suffering and utter MISERY of some other innocent person like that. (but GEE.. getting chased through the sewers of Vienna and dying like a dog in the gutters WOULD be a pretty fitting end... so I guess THIS movie had a bit of "justice" to it that the folks here in KC might only dream about).

 

Ok.. I know.. that SOUNDS bloodthirsty. I don't REALLY wish that for the guy here in KC.. but I have to say.. I was VERY happy to see old Lime go down.. (or at least HEAR it when it happened anyway)

 

Wow.. what a powerful moment when that gun echoes all through those tunnels... and then along walks Holly out of the shadows into the opening. The whole movie COULD have ended there and would have been completely satisfying.

 

But then again.. I LOVED the ending. I really liked the way it ends almost exactly how it starts.. with Liime's funeral. And the same 3 characters leaving the way they do. Poor Anna... I KEPT hoping and hoping she would turn around and we'd see her back as she was walking back toward Holly at the end.. but we never get to see that. I guess for Anna the hurt ran far too deep. What a sad thing for her, because GEE, that Holly.. did I mention what a DECENT guy he was.

 

There is way more I wish I had time to say.. but will have to stop for now. Thanks for letting me blab a moment, Little Miss "OK Kid" (ha) :-)

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Nov 6, 2010 2:52 PM

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Nov 6, 2010 3:28 PM

[A Walk on the Noir Side]

Oh Ms Favell.. you have raised the bar yet again, little darlin'. (In fact my hat is off to you and the Grey Dude and the Pirate too)

 

I only WISH I had time to stop and reply to your posts (and the screencaps you chose) point by point because you have made some TRULY fascinating and very thought provoking observations For now, I just have to say well done and give you a "pat on the back" sort of post instead.. at a gal.. way to go.. YOUR THE TOPS!! (ha.. I COULD go on and on.. but I am running out of time)

 

It's always a "feast for the eyes" with you bringing so much to the table, little darlin'.

[RAMBLES Part II]

Oh my gosh, my golly... I see I have a GIANT bit of catching up to do around here...

[A Walk on the Noir Side]

What's the word, Quiet Gal

 

SCIENCE!!! ha. Make that SUPER Science.. .no.. make it SUPER SCIENCE SATURDAY!! ha.

 

OH my golly... am I ever ZONKED!! I have just spent the last several days getting thing prepared for an ALL day (early this am until after dark) "day camp" event with the scout troop kids.. OH me, oh my.. Science "rocks" ha. (the badge work I led for this was "Geology" ha.. so I have to say that.. ha)

 

Anyway.. it was a LOT of fun..and a HUGE success.. (thankfully) but boy oh boy.. I see I have fallen woefully behind here.

 

Wowsa.. I am loving the chat I am seeing on TLBN. I want to go back to re-read some of the stuff you folks have been bringing up (when I am not nearly so "bleary eyed"... but wanted to say that I think it is really fun that this film has generated such good "chat" (Ms Favell.. I am really glad you got to see this one)

 

I will get back w/ you all soon.. but ha.. well.. it may still be a day or two.. tomorrow is going to be another busy one..

 

(Gee.. I USED to know what sleep was.. but I am so tired now.. I think I have forgotten, ha)

 

think Quiet Gal would absolutely love On Dangerous Ground. I think she'd really go for the entire story, the characters, the look, the music, the emotion. The film pretty much has it all

 

That is one I am really looking forward to (after reading your comments here. Thanks to a couple of friends, I have been able to come by a copy of it.. so it USED to be on my "Wanna See list" and NOW it is on my "Hopefully SOON to see" instead. I will report back in when I get a chance to let you know. (I still have a couple of others I need to get to first though.. so it might be a week or so)

 

Did I mention I was falling "woefully" behind?? Ha.

 

(Oh golly.. if I don't get w/ the program soon. I am going to have to go on the lamb.. ha. The Grey Dude will start calling ME "shiftless" for SURE, ha)

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Oct 30, 2010 10:45 PM

[Focus on Fritz Lang]

Well, look who finally stepped out of the shadows!!

 

Good evening, Kloser

 

HA!! I wonder how her signature phrase ("Thank YEW, Lieutenant") would come off sounding in German.. ha. ("Danke schoen, herr lieutenant" just doesn't have quite the same ring to it w/ a heavy southern Georgia accent, ha.)

 

What a wonderful surprise! I didn't expect you to watch M, but I'm thrilled that you did

 

It was on my "wanna see" list for a very long time.. but I never came across it until the other day. (sometimes I completely forget to check youtube.. duh) So I sort of found it by accident.. and I am glad to have gotten a chance to see it.

 

Does this mean I'm going to get hanged

 

All in good time, my pretty... ha.

 

The brilliance of the film is the collision of emotions and thoughts. Can the two work together? The film makes us do both. "How do you feel? What do you think? Are they independent of one another? Must they be?

 

Some movies are not MEANT to be thought provoking and just are there to entertain.. and some films do both.. enterain AND make you think. But THIS film.. really.. not at all what I would think of as "entertainment" but VERY very thought provoking. I think it would be very hard for most people to just "watch" this movie and "space out".. so to speak. It would (and I submit SHOULD) be hard to see it without giving it a LOT of thought (both while it is playing.. and then for some time after it is over) I'd like to at least imagine that the average person would have a hard time just "walking away" saying.. "ok.. seen it" and then moving on.

 

Many times, a community will band together to rid itself of a "monster

 

Well.. not all "communities" or "monsters" are created equal.. but I am glad that at least the

"community" in THIS "monster" movie was successful... finally. But I like that they were stopped from "lynching" him. I think (no matter who does the "catching" those sorts of things are best handled by the ones in authority. Otherwise, we'd end up w/ a whole lot more "Ox-bow Incident" chats...

 

I like how you brought up the point about how there is a danger to "neighborhood" watches. There ARE ways to do that more effectively that are more about "protecting" and "prevention" than about catching a criminal. But I am sure they were also just so focused on trying to find him and stop him, so it was hard to seperate the two ideas at the time.

 

I think the BEST way to handle a "neighborhood watch" effort is for them to do just that.. watch and report.. And then it is time for the authorities to act (in terms of prosecuting the offenders) At least. .that is the way it SHOULD work. But it does not always happen that way. Sometimes it IS up to the citizens to step in and "take care of business". But it is a very dangerous idea unless it is handled with care. It is not hard to understand WHY those neighbors began to turn on (and turn in) each other. NOTHING is so horrifying as the thought that the very people you are living in and around MIGHT just be the ones who are out there stalking you and yours.. And again.. it was all about protecting the kids.. so all bets are off when it comes to letting cooler heads prevail with that, sometimes. (But as your screencaps showed... mob rule is a dangerous thing too.. so gee.. we are right back with that whole "there are no easy answers thing, arent' we?)

 

love the usage of silence. I'm glad you brought that up. Is there a better "sound" for tension? We are not being manipulated my music, told how to feel. We are being told to pay attention

 

It was a very "attention getting" method, to be sure.

 

Wow! If Lang did that, that would be absolutely brilliant. I didn't catch that. I'll have to watch it again, myself.

 

I still need to go back and re-watch it again myself. It COULD likely have all just been the music playing over and over again in my head and a whole lot of "imagination" ha. But BOY it sure seemed like it sounded that way to me at the time.

 

Now that surprised me. I was expecting you to be tougher on Beckert (Peter Lorre). No mercy

 

Oh, don't misunderstand. My "sympathy" for him only goes SO far. I have a way of seeing things sometimes that may sound like I am trying to have it both ways.. but truly I am not. I feel there are times when a person DOES deserve (and should receive) death as the just punishment for their crime but that does not mean I have to "celebrate" it. Ok. I confess.. sometimes I do.. because it IS hard not to... it goes back to what April was saying.. sometimes I DO clap when the Duke lets the bad guy have it.. blammo!! (And I know that if I had been there, I likely would have been dancing right along w/ the Mexican peasants out in the street when Liberty Valance went down) I guess that is one area where movies can let me enjoy something that I might not otherwise do. ha.

 

Because TRULY.. in the "real world" I STILL feel a level of sadness at the thought of someone paying the ultimate price for their crime. (no matter how richly they deserve it) To use as the example.. one of the most heinous crimes of our modern times.. on 9/11. I was VERY glad that the men who committed those acts died too.. and I know that there is not a hell hot enough for them to pay for what they did throughout eternity.. but I still tremble at the thought of the "judgement" they must have received. And it is because I DO believe in not only earthly justice.. but justice in the hereafter as well.. that I know they have not yet even BEGUN to pay for what they have done. And it gives me pause to think of just how tragic that will be for them throughout eternity. Talk about "sobering". So despite the fact that I firmly believe they deserve whatever punishment they get.. and despite the fact that I am glad they are gone.. I am not REALLY a "grave dancer" in that respect. It is NOTHING to celebrate when someone is made to die for their crimes. (and yet..ha.. I still know that I every time I watch TMWSLV, I will end up singing the happy little "la la la la la" song along w/ the mexicans in the street. ha. GEE... I really AM trying to have it both ways, aint I??? ha)

 

This is true. If he knew he was a menace, he could become a hero by "capturing" himself. But it rarely ever works that way

 

Sad but true.

 

It's the inability to control seriously dark urges. Thankfully, this is seen in a very small minority. But, still, why does it exist? How does it come to be? The easy way to explain anything is to say, "they are evil." That's the easy way out. The difficult part is finding out why they are evil. Why is it that one person can cope with things but another cannot?

 

It is not something that can just be "explained" by the phrase "evil" At least not in my way of looking at it. I think of "evil" as a process sometimes. And I am speaking in a very "general" sense here.. not just about Lorre's character and his crimes, but more about "evil" in general. It starts with an "idea" that is allowed to grow.. and it becomes a "thought" and eventually a " desire" and before you know it.. it has consumed your heart and your mind.. and becomes an outward act. Sometimes it is a "slow" process.. other times it happens almost all at once. But some folks are definitley carried away by their "sin" (oh no.. here we go again. ha.. I PROMISE this is not a Sunday School lesson, ha) And the more we give ourselves over to wrong doing... the harder we become until we no longer CARE if what we are doing is right or wrong anymore.. so long as we get what we want (or THINK we have to have) And again.. sometimes this is a LONG process.. other times... it happens in the blink of an eye.

 

I'm innocent!

 

Ha.. that'll be the day!

 

Look at my white hat!

 

Yeah, but just putting tapshoes on a horse does not make him Fred Astaire. HA. ANYONE can wear a white hat, Sherrif Layne, but not everyone can BE one, ha.

 

think the toughest part of the death penalty is, can a person personally pull the trigger? It's much easier when someone else does it for you. But can you do it? If your answer is "yes," then you know you're for the death penalty

 

I don't know if I totally agree. I think it is not so easy to say "if" you can pull the trigger.. you must be for the death penalty. I think it is a more complex issue. I don't think of death as "vengence" when it comes to a legal punishment for certain crimes against societly. I see it as a "just consequence" for a choice that someone made to cause willful harm to another person. Consequence is a natural order of life. Things happen.. that cause other things to follow... and when someone is found guilty of a crime.. they can expect a penalty for that crime. And to be very honest.. sometimes I think death is TOO GOOD a punishment for certain people. I wonder if it would have been even MORE horrible type of a punishment to let Lorre's character LIVE.. in a tiny cell with NO outside contact to the world.. and only the photos of his victims plastered on the walls to keep him company. That to me would be more "vendictive" and "vengeful" than a death sentence. But I admit others may not agree.

 

Yes, very sobering. We do bear responsibility for our children, but it's impossible to be everywhere. We must rely on others to help us out. That's part of the "we

 

I don't know. I have never been much of a "village" person (as in "it takes a village, etc) Though I do still hold to the "neighborhood" watch idea.. of parents joining forces and being mindful of the kids in their area.. and working together to make sure they are safe. Because I DO buy into that whole "no man is an "island" thing and at the end of the day.. I understand that we really ARE all in this together. So I can agree up to a point a point that part of the "we" is everyone working together.

 

But truly.. for me.. there ultimate "we" is me and my husband. There is no one (from an earthy perspective) who bears a great responsibility for caring for my child than her daddy and I do. Because ULTIMATELY.. I belive it is a parent who is given this job by God.. and we are accountable to him for the way we care for our kids.

 

Do I think I will ALWAYS be able to watch her ALL of the time everywhere she goes.. no. EVERYDAY as she grows up, I am finding that out, more and more. So because I know I can't be with her 24 hours a day (like I used to be) I am very choosy in the situations I allow her to be in and I am very careful who she is with (when I cannot be there myself) And I am very mindful of what sorts of situations I allow her to become invovled in apart from my supervsion.

 

As she grows and matures.. I let her have more and more opportunities to make good choices.. but I do not just automatically assume that because I have taught her to choose well that she will. And more importantly, I also know (as I mentioned before) sometimes no matter HOW well we try to protect our kids.. evil will come looking for them. So I am very careful about how MUCH I let her do on her own.

 

Right now.. it is not so hard because she IS only 7 and so she is too young to want to go TOO many place on her own. But as she grows up.. I know this will be a changing thing.. and over time she will be allowed (and should be allowed) to take on more decision making in her life. But for now.. her choices (about where she goes and what she does) are going to be MY choices. And I know that sounds like some sort of "hovering mothering" technique... and it may well be. But I that is a choice we have made in our family and this is where we have drawn the line. And yes.. I understand that as she gets older.. and older.. the apron strings DO have to be let out. So (ugh.. no matter how MUCH I hate it) every year.. they get a little longer. But BOY oh boy.. it is a "sobering" (there's that word again) thing trying to decide how MUCH string to give her. And in the ugly reality we live in these days, I take it very seriously.. because at least for now, (while she is still so young especially) a little string goes a long, long way.

[A Walk on the Noir Side]

Thanks for the info on Ray, Mr. ChiO, sir.

 

I appreciate the listing you gave of some of the titles for him. I am only familiar with just a couple of them so I will have to look up the rest and see about giving some of them a try.

 

I am finding that the longer I hang out here, the more I learn... and I am having a lot of fun finding new (old) films (not to mention directors and actors too) to enjoy along the way.

 

Thanks again.

[Focus on Fritz Lang]

helloooo, there, queen of the CSI

 

Ha ha.. oh yeah.. that's me. (You know ever since the 70's and Starsky and Hutch I have always had this secret desire to go into law enforcement.) HA!

 

i just want to say i really loved your passionate post about

the kids and how we all need to watch out for them

 

Thank you. I appreciate you loaning me a space here in your thread to set up my soapbox for a while, ha. I know I do tend to rant sometimes.. but that subject (the need for parents to care more for their kids above all other things) has always been an issue that is REALLY at the top of my list of things that can really get me "blabbing". I will try to "temper" my temper while here, though, ha.

 

and it's pretty cool that a movie that old can still be so relevant

 

I completely agree. I am finding that in a lot of the films I have been watching lately. I hesitate to bring up a "Bible' verse in your thread (after the Grey Guy and I had our "moment' over in westerns.. HA!) But the part in Ecclesiastes where it says something about how there is "nothing new under the sun" really rings true. Sometimes (for better or worse) the more things change (in terms of our society and all the many problems we may face in the world) the more they stay the same.

 

have never seen any of these shows, so i take your word for it. i have seen enough

clips or commericals for them to get a feel for how they are presented and i would even

throw in an older TV series for comparison

 

Some of them are better than others.. and not all "crime shows" are created equal for sure. I tend to lean more on programs that really focus on the investigative process and how they come to catch the bad guy (instead of the bang bang shoot em up stuff".. ha. I have come a long way since Starsky and Hutch, I guess. HA!) Truely.. some of my more favorite shows are not the dramas.. I like The First 48 on A & E a lot.. it is real detectives doing real detective work. (and they do a pretty good job of respecting the victims and their families by "blotting" out a lot of the more "gruesome" crime scene evidence. It is a very intriguing show. But again, The Closer is TOPS for me right now in "drama". I absolutely LOVE my Deputy Cheif Brenda Leigh Johnson.. ha. (or as I like to call her.. the "mouth from the South" ha)

 

Hill Street Blues. I mention it because my

mom was a huge fan of the show and I remember that some of the officers did an awful

lot of undercover work where they had to enlist the cooperation of the "underworld" and

criminal types in order to catch a BIGGER crook/murderer.

 

I did not know that they used those sorts of techniques on that show. That is a program I think I have only seen maybe just a handful of times.. and that was when it was on way back in the 80's. (that was back during my "retail management" days and I MISSED a lot of night time prime time TV. It must have shown on a night when I normally worked til closing.. but I can't say for sure ( Since I was the manager I made my own schedule and for whatever reason I usually chose to work Tues and Thurs as my days that I worked until closing.. and then also either Friday night or Saturday night.. depending on if I worked Sunday) The rest of the week I more or less worked daytime hours. UGH.. I do not miss that retail schedule for sure. (talk about BLECH!!) But thankfully.. that is all just a memory now....

 

those guys (the detectives) certainly needed some

real psychological, or understanding of human nature as much as the more

technical skills when ferreting out the truth. One good "psych out" can save

hours of time in more straightforward detective methods

 

Funny how once he thought his goose was cooked.. his mouth just opened right up, ha. He couldn't blab it all to them fast enough. (and you are right.. the look on that inspector's face.. ha He NEVER expected THAT to be what they were up to, did he?

 

would also like to hear more about what tracey brought up...about the background

on the relevancy of the film to what was going on in Germany. FrankGrimes might

have something to add there.

 

 

Where IS that Grey Guy hiding lately.. because I though he would chime in on that too.. but I am glad some folks are bringing in some interesting facts. I never knew any of that stuff.. but in truth.. I know next to nothing about Lang in general.. so this is all interesting to me.

 

RE: Fury...

 

Oh boy, it's tough for me to watch, just for that ONE scene...and the build up toward it. I really CANNOT watch it too often. It gets to me like few movie scenes ever do

 

I DO remember it being very intense like that. (and the "ONE" scene you are referring to.. GASP!! Intense does not even begin to cover it. I need to rewatch it again to refresh my memory.. but as I recall.. let me just reiterate...ha.. GASP!

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Oct 24, 2010 11:30 PM

[A Walk on the Noir Side]

They Live by SPOILAGE: (ha)

 

that someone so young and who'd basically spent most of his "adult" years in jail

should even have ANY sense of loyalty (even to fellow cons) is remarkable in itself

 

I imagine (and this is a TOTAL "presumption" on my part) it must have been a VERY scary world to be cast into and he was happy to have made some "bigger and stronger" friends. But again.. with friends like that... he might have done better to have just taken his chances.

 

I do think "T-Dub" (I think that was his name) was a bit less "mean spirited" than deSilva's character. He seemed to understand (and maybe even sympathize a bit) when he told them he was not going to be working with them anymore. But still.. he let his own selfish plans take precedent over anything else, so his "sympathy" only went so far.

 

look how we all went back and forth over "dixon steele" and "laurel grey

 

Well now see.. I did not even know that it was the same guy making both movies. (DUH!) :-) really have only just started noticing his name, I guess. I need to look at his "filmography" and find out how many of his films I actually have seen.

 

you are right...they could have tried to just use every expedient to make their life

easier...to keep on robbing to live better, flashier, but they resisted this and kept

quiet and to themselves, just trying to live like a normal, young couple starting out

 

The QT started watching this with me (but fell asleep before it was over) Anyway.. when it first came on, he had never heard about it before and when I told him what little I knew about it (from what had been said here) he asked, "Oh boy.. this isn't going to be a low-budget "Bonnie and Clyde" is it?) ha. (I hate that movie by the way, ha. So I am GLAD he was wrong about THAT!!) But you know.. it COULD have gone that way. (sort of along the lines of Gun Crazy even) if those two had been more in "LOVE" with the lifestyle and mindsets they had been raised in (rather than repelled by them) I really like that this time.. they were NOT looking for the "high life" but just wanted to find whatever happiness they could. That was a nice "twist" for a "cops and robbers" type story.

 

i tell you i had to look away whenever Ray gave him a close up. and it's not because

of his affliction, but because of his inner venality and meanness that just made him

so repulsive.

 

I gotta confess.. ha.. it was BOTH for me. UGH.. he was definitely one guy whose "INNER" ugly was just as apparent on the outside as well. He was loud and TOTALLY "mocking" in his attitude toward anything that might be "good" or "pleasant". Talk about a hate-filled, hateful, totally UNsympathetic guy... You said it earlier.. "gaaaack!" is the right word, ha.

 

thought another interesting character was the woman who owned the motor court,

the one who's husband the 'gang' were trying to spring. she represented what the

girl could become if she wasn't made of better stuff. talk about bitter

 

I did not have much sympathy for her.. until right up to the end when you could TELL her conscience really DID work afterall. At first I found her to be truly just a mean and (as you say) bitter woman. But as she really began to contemplate on the trade she was making.. her husband's life.. for someone else's husband, I think it finally "sunk" in and she hated herself for it. But not enough to change her mind.. not enough.

 

OH boy did I keep hoping and hoping she'd call him back into that room with her as he was leaving... sniff.. (Oh WHERE is Frank Grimes with my box of KLEENEX already??)

[A Walk on the Noir Side]

i give them so much credit for trying to be happy and get a piece of

the "normal" life so many take for granted, and did so without any desire to

hurt anyone else.

 

When he pushed that jewlery store clerk out of the way (for his own good) that told me EVERYTHING I needed to know about his real character. He did NOT have any interest in getting ahead by hurting others (as his cohorts clearly did) I think he was just trapped in a really "impossible" situation. I like how he REALLY tried to get out too.. but still had a level of "compassion" for the men who at one time must have been the only "friends" he had.. though admitttedly they WERE some pretty lousy friends to be stuck with.

 

nicholas ray really goes for the heart and guts in his movies

 

I really don't know anything about him as a director.. but I have to say THIS story was all of that. "Heart and Guts" are right It was as the Grey Guy says.. very "emotional" And the two characters were filled w/ "heart and guts" too.. They had REAL "hearts" that truly did want to do good and find a way to just be happy and love one another without as you say.. huriting anyone.. but it took a LOT of "guts" for them to live the life they were dealt.. It had to be a hard way to grow up.. and in many ways they only JUST were really starting to find out what REAL happiness was all about. They really did have a lot of inner strength that only just was starting to work for them when things went bad.. I say again.. very tragic.

 

that howard da silva character....gaaaack! he gives me nightmares

 

OH my gosh my golly.. what a bad, bad, BAD man.. and TOTALLY creepy.. inside and out. (ugh)

[Western Movie Rambles]

Ha... Laffite.. if you "blab" like me.. good luck getting ANYONE to listen. (I am likely the most often "un-listened to" blabber on the planet.. ha... go ahead.. just ask any 7 year old kid I know.. ha. Or better yet.. ask Frank Grimes! )

 

I have given up the Red Ryder wind-propelled land boat idea and have opted instead for a new look

 

Hey.. I am liking that whole "new you" look. Way cool!! I think you are have sort of a Richard Boone-ish Long Haired "Paladin" thing going on. (April?? Do you see the resemblance??) ha. Whatever you call it, you wear the West well, sir.

[A Walk on the Noir Side]

Now that's a film with a lot of emotion

 

OH sure Grey Guy.. make me watch a movie that causes me to bust out bawlin' now just thinking about it. :-)

 

Poor kids.. they were DOOMED from the very beginning, weren't they? What a sorry hand life dealt to the both of them. Their biggest "crime" was they both were just born into the wrong families and so that is what caused them to more or less get stuck living an entire life of "in the wrong place at the wrong time"

 

Very tragic. Sure, they made some mistakes, but truly I found them BOTH to be quite sympathetic.

 

PS: you were right.. it does have a lot of emotion... especiallly at the end..sniff, sniff. sob. (Oh good gravy... just thinking of it...ha.. pass the kleenex, please).

 

Minispoiler wannabe:

 

And PS some more: You know what would have made a GREAT ending?? If he was still hanging on when she got to him... and then he looks at her right at the very end and asks, "What time is it?" Gasp.. just thinking of the way he said it to her in those other scenes... Oh brother.. HURRY up w/ the Kleenex will you, already! For crying out loud!. ha.

[Western Movie Rambles]

Hey, wait a minute, I remember an old Red Ryder comic book where ole Red had this boat with wheels on it and sails above propelled by the desert winds. Maybe I can do that

 

Yeehaw.. now you're talkin' pardner!! ha. I bet that would be THE way to travel.. so long as you had a good breeze. Of course.. if you hang around THESE parts very long.. ha. with all the "blabbing" I tend to do (and all the "long winded replies" I generally feel compelled to make for some unexplanied reason..ha) there is often a seemingly endless supply of hot air. so you SHOULD be ok for quite some time to come! ha.

 

How about crimson purple green

 

Well.. the teacher has not taught me "crimson" but I have heard her say "red"... so how about rouge, vert, and violet?? ha. (and PS.. I confess.. I DID have to look up the spelling.. I am only learning to SPEAK French..ha. sadly I would have way TOO far to go to learn how to spell it too. ha)

[Western Movie Rambles]

Now if I can jus? find the general store I may gits me a good pair o? boots (and some spurs too?or should I get a horse first?) Hmm, maybe I can pawn my sword and peg leg?where?s the saloon?

 

OH say it isn't so!! Please tell me you can take the pirate out of the "ocean" but you can't take the "ocean" out of the.. Oh wait.. that doesn't make as much sense as I thought it would when I was thinking it in my head. HA!!

 

But just the very thought of the message board's very own "Pirate Extarodinaire" pawning his "peg leg" for a pair of boots.. We can't be having THAT!! ha. Maybe we can get you a horse with some sort of custom saddle so your peg leg will fit in that stirrup. ha. That way you can drop in anytime a for ride along with us on our rambles.. but you will still have your "sea legs" as well.

 

I might not want to concede much more than that

 

Well.. that is more of a "concession" than we might get from SOME folks around here.. ha I liked that she seemed to genuinely love (or at least care about) her husband. Often times these westerns show a woman who is only "appreciated" by some other man that she cannot have.. meanwhile she is stuck unhappily married to some colossal jerk or something.

 

Coined by Frank (Grimes, that is, not the other one) who must take credit for this mot juste

 

Oops... I missed that.. ha. But even if I had caught it.. I would not have been able to say that I agreed.. ha. Becaues as you may know.. the Grey Dude and I NEVER agree.. .(or haven't you read??? ha) So I had to see YOU say it before I could acknowledge that it made sense.. HA!!

 

PS: Hey guess what?? I am "unofficially" learning elementary FRENCH as a part of my new job.. ha. Go ahead.. ask me a color.. any color!!! Or how about a month of the year?? ha. WHO'D a thunk it?? (especially at MY advanced age. ha.. I guess I am living proof that you are NEVER to old to learn something new..ha) But dont' be too impressed. ha.. My "skills" are VERY limited.. and I will likely NOT have much opportunity to go beyond just my very "elementary" lessons.. ha. I imagine that I would DEFINITLEY go down in flames on any given episode of "Are You Smarter than a French 1st Grader" HA

[Western Movie Rambles]

as I have watched, I find that it looks like a remake of Ford's Lost Patrol!

 

Wowsa Ms Favell.. that one totally slipped past my radar.. though even if I had been hoping to catch it..I was up w/ the kidling half the night.. she has a VERY nasty cold right now.. blech. So I was so bleary eyed by that time of morning.. I likely would not have been able to see straight enough to watch.. ha.

 

But OH me.. I went into the TCM database and read the synopsis.. It DOES sound very intriguing. (And among the other titles you folks have tossed out to compare it with.. it sounds a bit like that portion of The Plainsman where Coop and the boys are holed up waiting for Custer to get there) But from what I read, it definitly sounds very (VERY) "Lost Patrol-ish". Good golly.. if what I saw in the database is as accurate as it sounds (and along with you have written I imagine it is) you could take LP.. set it in the old west w/ a bunch of Apaches instead of out in the desert w/ a some angry Arabs.. and.. ha.. (with all his Ford "experience" under his belt) ha..Victor McLaglen could have STILL been in either movie.. ha.

 

But it sounds like it was fun to see some of the other "second banana guys" in the key rolls too. Francis Ford... oh golly.. I bet that was a treat.

[Western Movie Rambles]

HOWDY there Monsieur Pirate Dude..

 

Welcome to the "western" side of town, ha.

 

I had come to like Boone so much that a bona fide confrontation between the two would have been a dilemma for me. The story may have been more about Brigade but I liked Boone better. He was the more interesting character, IMO. Had they dueled it out Brigade would have had to win and the story and depiction of Boone made me not want to see him as a loser. Boone had his past and kept us guessing a lot but he was likable and in the end he had become sympathetic. Both Boone and Brigade come out winners and I can see how that can be unsatisfying for some, like a football game that ends in a tie, ugh?... The ending was unexpected but Boone's burgeoning appeal as a decent sort nearly came to rival that of Brigades and I think that is what set us up for a draw. It was okay with me.

 

That is a great way to look at it. For all of his "untrustworthiness" I did sort of cringe just thinking that at any moment the bullets were going to fly and poor Pernell was going to be laying there in the dust. I can't go so far as to say I had come to "like" him yet because he really did keep me "on guard" with his whole personality being what it was.. but I was holding out the least little "glimmer" of hope that he might prove to be an alright guy... maybe. It was a nice suprise to see him turn out alright at the end.

 

Why don?t they just know that women act like that from time to time

 

Maybe because they would also have to understand that as men... THEY were the reason WHY!!!! ha

 

Van Cleeve has always been ?flimsy? to me

 

I agree.. and "flimsy" is the right word for him. For such an AWFUL guy (as to have committed the sorts of crimes he had) he did not really seem to have much "meat" on his bones in terms of being portrayed as some sinister really rotten BAD guy. It would have made him much more intimidating to see him being ruthless a time or two rather than just hearing about his long forgotten (by him) past acts.

[Focus on Fritz Lang]

have you ever watched NCIS (the original

 

I used to watch it all the time.. and still do catch it once in a while. It is a great show.. and has some really well developed characters too.. But it is a bit too "gruesome" sometimes as well and I sort of stopped watching for a couple of years when my daughter was a toddler and got old enough to start noticing what was on tv. And now.. I know it is on at a lot of different times of day (so I maybe could catch it when she is not around) but for some reason I am just not as able to get to it as one would think I could be.. not sure why.. but I always seem to miss it)

 

Hope you get a chance to catch M.. it is a indeed a very thought provoking story

[Focus on Fritz Lang]

Absolutely. Every sentence

 

Thank you, dear sir...but truly I know..ha. I do tend to blab on and on, sometimes. (and oh golly.. a blabbermouth on a soapbox.. talk about a recipe for disaster, ha)

 

Early CSI, yes, I agree. I wonder how many others are out there that I neglect? Was Sherlock Holmes the originator of this popularized view of 'real detecting'? Hunters tracking pawprints? Maybe I need to start adding some "CSI" sub-category to my euphemistically titled "Genre" lists,

 

I really do think a lot of "present" day shows that focus so much on those sorts of things kind of "ride on the backs" of some of these earlier films and stories. (a sort of passing of the torch) I guess...

 

I still giggle a bit too much with Richard Denning 'dusting' for radioactive fingerprints in CREATURE WITH ATOM BRAIN

 

Ha.. well. I guess "scientific" investigation IS a relative term sometimes.

[Focus on Fritz Lang]

The thing I remember the most, after the balloon, is the chalky, ghostly letter M on Lorre's back, following him like an eerie imprint of his deed, marking him forever, despite it's impermanence. I found his desperation to get away from the thing that was himself odd and disturbing as well.

 

Wasn't that SOMETHING?? Once he realized he'd been"marked".. I kept waiting for him to rip that coat off.. just to get rid of the "label" but (if he had taken it off) I kept half expecting to see it branded through his shirt all the way to his skin. Once the mark was on him.. it just STOOD OUT and fairly screamed of his crimes.

 

Which brings me back to the whole investigation "thing" I really ENJOYED how this story was not just about the "criminal investigation" but also there was a whole other "criminal's" investigation going on as well. (ha.. pardon the pun)

 

I really was amazed at the organized "underworld" pooling their resources the way they did to solve the crime as well. They may not have had such a "sterling" motivation as the police (as in wanting to see him put behind bars) at least NOT entirely at first anyway..( since the primary motivation early ON was financial) But oh BOY.. how quickly the tide turned once they caught him. Did you notice that their "pocketbooks" were NOT what they focused on then?? There was NOT much about the whole "you have been found guilty of wrecking our finacial structure and causing us a lot of trouble with the police raids" thing anymore. Instead it was all about how HORRID he was and how he deserved to pay for murdering those children... the shouts and accusations that were being hurled at him had LITTLE to do with their "financial" losses at that point.

 

And it amazed me too how "judgmental" he was of THEM as well. I was fascinated by his boldness when he finally stopped "cowering" and let them have it... "LOOSELY" translated it all came off as "Who are you (you band of thieves and killers) to sit in judgement of me?? You are all just "common criminals yourself.. I am nothing like you and you are not at all like me"

 

That really took me by surprise.

 

And as bad as I hated to admit it.. he did have at least some point.. at least about how "hypocritical" they were being (on some level anyway) Many of them WERE as guilty as he was.. some of them were even "killlers" too. but not on the same level. I guess there is a whole "heirarchy" for criminal's and the respect they wll have for one another. And I guess no matter HOW awful the criminal.. no matter HOW bad the crime... NOBODY is lower (on the jailhouse totem pole) than a child molester/murderer. That is something that I think still holds true today.. (at least based on things I have seen and read)

 

No wonder Lorre's character felt SO trapped. Here he was.. finally caught and on "trial" for his crimes.. and he did not even have ONE "friend" to turn to among an entire room that was FILLED with nothing but fellow law breakers. (talk about a jury of your peers)

 

wish I knew where we were talking about M before

 

It was a very long time ago.. and I have been struggling to remember it myself. If memory serves.. (and I am only guessing) I THINK I had asked for some "classic' movie recommendations from folks because I remember I had been talking about my "wanna see list" and saying something about how I had been able to mark off a lot of movies.. and did anyone have any "new" ones they thought I should check out... and if I recall.. among some of the other ones you mentioned.. that was one you listed.

 

I would be interested to hear your comparisons to the Third Man.. I might even be able to see some of what you are referring to already.. just sitting here thinking about it.. but would still need to double check if my memory is right.

 

(OH.. and PS: HOPEFULLY by the end of the weekend I will FINALLY be getting to that one again, by the way..ha.. I know.. promises promises.. just call me.. gasp... "shiftless" lately.. whod'a thunk I could ever slip so FAR??? ha)

[Focus on Fritz Lang]

Howdy there little Miss "Nightowl" :-)

 

I know you are a big crime film fan, so I'm curious how you feel

it compares to the genre today

 

Well.. to be truthful when it comes to "movies".. I am just a "wannabe" compared to some.. as my "crime show" expertise is more limited to tv programs (since I am such a "noir" newbie, ha) I do enjoy a good "who dunnit" though.. and I also like a lot of "real" crime investigation programs that focus on the details of how an investigation is done.. and how police were able to solve the crime. It never ceases to amaze me how the smallest detail will fall into place for them sometimes and 'crack" a cold case almost overnight.

 

Anyway, having said all that... I will say that as I was watching "M" it was almost like getting to see a "primer" for some of the popular TV crime investigation dramas that are so prevelant in our present day programs. I saw elements of several different "modern" tv shows. They really focused a LOT on scientific methods as well as criminal "profiling" just like so much of our present day programs do now. It reminded me especially of all the various CSI shows (which are usually too gruesome for me, by the way) and also of programs like Cold Case or Without a Trace.. or even Criminal Minds (a favorite of mine lately)

 

Good golly..they even brought up the possibility of using a "psychic" if I remember right.. (a la "Ghost Whisperer" or "is it "Medium".. though admittedly I have not ever watched either of those shows so I don't know if they are any sort of "crime" drama or not)

 

Anyway.. when the police were sitting around talking about the various techniques they had employed... and they were showing how the crime scene and the evidence was all being analyzed (like the candy wrapper and the cigarette brand, if I am remembering the evidence right) I found it very similar to modern "cop" shows to be sure.They even focused on what sort of table/pencil they were looking for in the murderer's home (even though the "table" ended up being a window sill)

 

And when the "criminal" WAS found to match up wth the "evidence".. they more or less had him EXACTLY right. They had built an IRON clad case against him using real evidence.. it was pretty impressive. (It was almost like watching an "old timey" episode of CSI or something, ha) They really did their homework... right down to doing a "search" of known "crazies" so to speak who might have a past history of such crimes, etc. They likely would NEVER have honed in on him w/out doing that. And gee... they did it all the OLD FASHIONED way... with a paper trail.. and "on foot". All without some giant computer data base to search in rapid fire time for them, etc, etc.... very impressive. (but that is not to take away from ANY "modern" methods used by law enforcement now.. the science and technology they have available to them is almost "awe" inspiring, to be sure)

 

He got the only laugh in the movie out of me when he drops his cigar at the "begger ringleader's"

confession his gang captured the child murderer

 

I liked how the tricked him into confessing.. making him think he was up for murder.. pretty effective interrogation "psyche-out" the way they played him that way. (and THAT reminded me a lot of my MOST favorite "present day" crime show.. The Closer)

 

I mean the neighbors that too felt really modern. or "urban" i should say. it's nice to have clean laundry and cook a nice meal, moms, but maybe they could have left the stew pot to go pick up the kids

 

I really do think it was a "common" thing for parents to have that sort of mindset back THEN.. but gee.. you are right.. the way kids TODAY are still allowed to just "run" around now in some areas.. still shows a lot of things have NOT really changed when it comes to some people's ideas of what is "safe" and acceptable for their children. And it is made even worse by the fact that the times we live in now are NOT at all like back then when at least the moms in THIS story WERE at home waiting. .

 

That is pretty much a "thing of the past" for most families now days w/ so many "two parent" incomes and/or single parenting that almost make up our entire "social structure". And while I know there are no easy solutions out there for parents in that situation.. there HAS to be some attention given to this issue if one is to try to truly provide the safety and protection our kids deserve. Because I also think that back THEN (when this film was made) sexual predators and child murderers were not an "ISSUE" that folks ever really did have to fear too often the way we do now. But now (and this may come off sounding a bit harsh...) EVERYBODY knows about it (or should) So there is very little excuse not to know "better" nowdays.

 

Even if these sorts of crimes had been more "prevalent" back in the day this film was made.. people still had a sort of "innocent" ignorance about it.. so you could maybe understand why someone like Lorre COULD get the upper hand. People did not KNOW or EXPECT a "psycho" on ever corner the way we have come to do now days. And sadly I think in many ways (when so many kids are STILL allowed to run around w/out supervision) we have become "willfully" ignorant in that regard. And to me.. it is now an even greater "tragedy" when a kid who is allowed to "run around" too freely ends up going missing. Because really.. unless you have your head in the sand.. with all that goes on in the world these days. and the tv reports OVER and OVER again all the time.. how could you NOT know the need to be ever watchful and careful. Once again I have to say.. "ignorance" has to be a serial killer's best friend in that regard.

 

And just to clarify.. I am NOT (so very NOT NOT NOT) saying that the parents are to blame when a child is kidnapped and murdered. Again.. like I mentioned when I talked about Lang's ending of the film.. NEVER would I say that. It is always the murderer who gets the blame from ME from that (I know some kids are attacked EVEN in the most "secure" settings.. I have even heard stories of childern who are snatched in their own front yard.. less than 10 feet away from the front door.. or golly.. even in their own homes.. during a "slumber party" with other kids right there too.. so yes, I know no matter how hard we try to prevent it.. sometimes evil will seek us out, and I would never blame the "victims" that way.

 

But I guess what I AM saying is that there are far more cases where a "predator" like Lorre's character is only successful in grabbing their prey because it was practically handed to them on a "silver platter". And good golly.. it is not like we are not "security" minded nowdays. We lock our cars (and even put fancy alarms on them) just to secure our CD players and "stuff". And we protect our "PIN" numbers and private info to secure our "banking" information, etc. My goodness, we will even "hide" a favorite snack in the fridge at work to make sure nobody "steals" it from us before break time. But meanwhile our KIDS are running around free all over the place and the moms and dads have NO idea what they are doing in a day's time. HOW can we even begin to account for things like THAT?

 

In my mind there truly is NO greater treasure on this planet that we can hold in either our hearts or our hands than our children.. and NO situation we find ourselves in financially or otherwise can ever take precedent over us doing everything in our power to find a solution toward insuring our children's safety.

 

And I know that sounds judgmental. I know that RIGHT now there is a GOOD mom in a desperate financial situation out there somewhere who is sitting at work just PRAYING her kids are alright at home by themselves... and she feels trapped by the fact that there is NO other way for her to care for her family. So I completely "get" all that. So gain.. I understand that in many ways there are no easy solutions.

 

But that is not so much what I am really referring to. Instead I guess I am saying that if more parents just spent a little MORE time with their kids. and got involved with their daily lives (as in.. do you KNOW what your child is doing on the internet RIGHT NOW??) and if they did not allow them to just run around so "freely" as their main source of "entertainment" all the time things would not be so EASY for the monsters out there to get to our "treasure" Even here in the more "midwest" setting that I live in.. l have seen shopping centers and movie theaters where the "minivan" pulls up and 5 or 6 pre-teens (not even 13+ years old yet) will get out.. and then the van drives away while the kids are left with NO grownup at all. And those kids are left to just go and do more or less whatever they want (until the pocket change runs out) Maybe for as long as several hours. or maybe even for the entire day. And then (God forbid) if something DOES happen... everyone is just so "shocked" and wondering "HOW could this have happened to ME?" That sort of willfully ignorant mindset is (to me) a "recipe" for disaster in the times we live in now.

 

And again.. I do not want to sound "judgmental" of any parent who is in a difficult circumstance and cannot figure out what to do for their kids.. but OH my golly.. who in their right mind just "drops the kids off" on their own to go play around in a crowded mall and then drives away like that THESE days?? I guess I am saying that if we want to look for solutions that might help PREVENT a disaster like the one in this story.. at least SOME sort of adult supervision in situations like that (where it really is a choice as to whether you go w/ the kids or not) would and could make a difference in MANY of the "nightly news reports" we end up seeing almsot every day.

 

OK.. now I am definitely on my "soap box" here.. I will step down. Sorry to rant and rave, but gee.. it really gets my goat. (Can you tell I have thought about this more than once?? ha)

 

Dadgum.. that LANG sure is a sneaky guy. He really DID cut to the chase w/ his ending. And although pretty much the whole MOVIE was about finding Lorre.. and putting an end to his crimes.. M was not REALLY just a "crime story".. and it was NOT just about the finding the "murderer" after all... There is SO much more we are left to think about with all the various layers going on in the details. It is a very "multi-faceted" film.

 

if you've never seen Fury, I recommend

it if only for another take on "disturbing", with what happens to Spencer Tracy's character.

the ending is not so good, though, but until then, boy, talk about FRUSTRATION and harrowing

scenes....

 

Actually, I have seen that film. (though I did not know it was a "Lang" at the time. It came on VERY late one night a couple of years ago and I almost turned it off I was so "tired" but BOY.. I started watching... and just could not stop. And wow.. that has to be one of THE best roles ever for Tracy.. another "most memorable" acting role (like Lorre's) for sure. It is a very "intense' story.. and you have it right.. "FRUSTRATING and "HARROWING" are excellent ways to describe it.

[Focus on Fritz Lang]

Hello there, Ms Favell..

 

Before, I forget, I want to thank you for calling my attention to this film so VERY long ago by the way.. I do not even remember what it was we were chatting on (that made you bring this one up to me) but whatever it was.. it stayed w/ me for over two years and so I truly was glad to have finally gotten the chance to see what it was you were talking about

 

when Lorre was trapped at "the trial", I found that I actually cried. For him! It was a stunning experience to feel compassion for someone who, up to that very moment, I had despised.... no....I guess reviled would be a better word for it. This is the marvel of M, as far as I am concerned.

 

It really just about did me in that I found myself with similar feelings.. I NEVER dreamed it would be possible. And you are Fredb are right on the money.. this WAS just about one of the best "acting" moments I can ever recall.. subtitles and all. The man was fairly frothing at the mouth in anguish.. like a caged and wounded animal, almost.

 

(And golly.. I know I keep using this word but it TRULY is the best one to describe it all.. ) I found it all very DISTURBING.

[Focus on Fritz Lang]

Howdy, Miss G...

 

"M"inent SPOILAGE ensues...

 

This was an era and society that was being ushered into a criminal phase of a different sort that the old world fears against "gypsies", bands of piratical abductors, or the extremely rare psychotic case, easily identified in a smaller community and dealt with. M feels like a new world, a very organized one that runs parallel to the organized law enforcement world....and is often far more efficient. Even when it comes to bringing one of their own to the bar of justice

 

I thought it was ingenious of them the way that all worked the streets in a way the police seemed so unable to do .. and yet.. all the while THEY (the "real" investigators) were narrowing in as well using all the latest "modern" techniques.. Truly very suspenseful as to WHO would get there first. But you are right.. the "underworld" folks DID have the upper hand..and their methods were VERY efficient. I sat there wondering WHAT in the world WOULD have happened if the police HAD NOT shown up when they did.

 

I also remember the rumpled police investigator. A forerunner of so many such types in movies, films noir, and crime series on television up to today

 

He was "comical" and quite "down to business" all at the same time. And RUMPLED is the right word.. very "stereotypical".. NOW. (but NOT your "typical" police persona back then.. at least in my mind anyway)

 

and what the handwriting analyzer said about Peter Lorre's letter cracks me up

 

Ha.. well. I can't even BEGIN to imagine what an "analyzer" would say about MY "hen scratching" these days. ha. The MORE I "type" write.. the WORSE my "handwriting" has become in my old age. And what is so SAD about it is.. ha.. as all my many "typos" surely must reveal.. ha... my "typing" aint no great shakes EITHER, ha.

 

I am noticing more clearly the social commentary. the women are at home but it's a poor neighborhood and they are alone, working so hard keeping house and cooking that i guess they haven't the time to go and pick up their children from school. and where are the men? at work during the day I'm sure, but look where they are and what they're doing after the little girl's murder...sitting around drinking and jawing over the incident, blaming each other, not actually DOING anything to protect their family. Even the poster hung on the telephone pole puts it all on the mothers to prevent this from happening. what about the fathers? why can't the get together and set up a sort of neighborhood watch, take turns fetching the kids from school, SOMETHING? very clever of lang

 

It DOES say a lot about the "mindset" of the times that it fell more on the moms.. I guess that the male/female roles were so different in that regard back then. And also, you are right.. WHY did they not form SOME sort of neighborhood watch?

 

Golly.. if they could not leave the home to go walk with them.. at the very least they could have employed an old "busdriver" trick and simply "count the kids" as they walked by. (drivers do that to make sure they are clear of the bus before they move it.. or at least they SHOULD do that) Anyway.. those folks knew the kids who lived in the neighbohood.. it was NOT lke it is today where nobody knows their neighbor.. so if you KNOW how many kids are going to walk by your apartment building.. you could just COUNT them (or check them off on a list.. or SOMETHING) to make SURE they DID walk by you. It would have been EASY for the moms to take turns and they could have established a "pipeline" or something where each block had someone out there watching to make sure THAT block's kids made it home.

 

Ok.. maybe I am being unreasonable in my expectations.. it is VERY easy for me to sit in judgement of them for not figuring out what to do to make it HARDER for a kid to just disappear. I know that people had a much different mindset back then about kids and the amount of "freedom" to play and run about that they should have) But golly.. I could NOT believe how "freely" the entire community seemed to allow such young children to "traipse" through the city streets unaccompanied like they did.. ESPECIALLY (even after) considering that an unknown killer was found to be in their midst.

 

It is NOT hard to see how "ignorance" was a serial killer's best friend back then (and likely now for that matter too) People just don't always THINK that something so awful could happen to them.. or their loved ones.. but it DOES.. And BOY oh boy.. in those opening scenes, I just wanted to shout at the mom to GET out there and go find her.. because I just kept watching that clock on the kitchen wall.. Elsie was over an HOUR late before her mom went out to look for her.. THAT to me was very.. well.. poor judgement on her part.. but truthfully.. even if she HAD gone sooner I think it would have been too late. But still.. and I guess that is what Lang was saying at the end of the film.. we DO need to watch out children more closely.. Again.. we will NEVER get a second chance once the worst happens that way.

 

i also like he doesn't show the murder, just the ball rolling in the grass and the balloon caught in the telephone wires. these children seem to be victiims of urbanization as anything else. very strong stuff.

 

Oh golly... when that little inflated "kid" balloon is shown dangling in the wires.. and then suddenly.. it just "floats away".. I was sick.. It broke my heart to think of what just happened.. I am still getting a sting behind my eyes just thinking of it. all.

 

PS Ollie.. "WHEW".. that is IT exactly.. that is just how I felt when it was all over. I think I was so emotionally overwrought by the end of the story.. if it had lasted 5 more minutes, I might have had to turn it off before it was over.. it just really had me tied up in knots taking it all in. (PS some more.. sure...ha. Go ahead and brag you "big screen" movie watching guy..ha. I am still jealous about your town having such GREAT theaters like that.. Way cool (It appears everything it NOT up to date here in Kansas City..ha)

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Oct 22, 2010 11:07 PM

[BRONXGIRL'S MOTHER, HENRY FONDA'S HIRSUTENESS, ETC.]

[Focus on Fritz Lang]

MIss G.. if you will pardon the interuption.. Admittedly I do not have much knowledge at all about Lang. or many (or most) of his films.. and I have not gone back and looked over all the discussions in this thread... so I hope you will forgive me for this interuption..

 

And I will apologize in advance if I am bringing up a film you have already discussed here... But OH me.. I just watched "M" last weekend (for the first time) I found it on youtube more or less by accident (I was actually looking to see if MOONFLEET was there (after bringing it up to the Grey Guy again) and lo and behold.. I found M instead)

 

At any rate, I have been "chewing' on this film now for the last several days. So with your permission, I wanted to make a few comments.

 

When I first came across the youtube, I was really happy because I remembered that a couple of years ago Ms Favell mentioned this movie to me and made some comments that led me to believe it might be a very intriguing story. So I "bit" the hook..and started watching.. and before I realized it.. I found myself in the middle of a TRULY remarkable (and QUITE disturbing) film. In fact.. "disturbing" is THE word I would use to describe almost everything about that story.

 

And now that I have seen it... I don't think "happy" is at ALL the word I would use to describe how I feel (about getting to watch this film) and yet I AM very glad to have been able to catch it... though now I absolutely cannot get it out of my mind. There is STILL so much (almost a week later) that I am "mulling" over in my head

 

(Now before I go any further, I have to say that from here on out, it will likely be difficult for me to talk about this movie without talking a lot about the plot and the things going on in the story.. so here is my "official" *SPOILER ALERT* for folks who have not seen this film. Read on at your own risk)

 

Ok.. with that out of the way, I have to say that crime show "junkie' that I am.. I was QUICKLY drawn into this tale. Part "detective mystery", part "thriller", part "psychological drama" and even laced a bit from time to time with some very unexpected forms of humor.. I found it all to be a VERY interesting mix.

 

And it was also quite a timely story in many ways as welll (as it is in some respects even very similar to many of the popular "crime scene investigation" programs that are so much a part of our present day "entertainment")

 

And also with regards to how "timely" the story is (even though it is nearly 80 years old) It still is very applicable to real life situations we hear of now as it is a tragic fact of life (with all the present day news media coverage we now have at our "finger tips") that we've all become more and more aware (than folks might have been way back when) how HORRID it is for a child to go missing.. and later be found dead at the hands of some monster like the one being portrayed in this film.

 

OH my golly, it did not take long for my heart to practically SCREAM in terror as poor Elsie's mom is there in the kitchen just waiting.. and waiting.. and WAITING for her to come home for lunch.

 

And of course.. (choke) she NEVER shows up.

 

As a mother I can say that this would likely rank at the TIP TOP of my "fear factor".. the very idea that my child could fall into the hands of someone like Peter Lorre's character. "Disturbing" does not even begin to describe it.

 

And I loved the "twist" of the "criminals" out hunting for the "monster" along side (and in spite of ) the police investigation that was going on. That was TOTALLY unexpected for me. I like how they used all the resources that they might otherwise have employed to commit their crimes to find "the unfindable one" hiding in plain sight with all the "average" citizenry.

 

OH, and while I am NO expert on this.. the WAY this film was shot.. with so many interesting uses of the various "faces" and all the unusual angles and such.. it just really enhanced the entire "feeling" of the story. And the way that SILENCE was used throughout the story (to an almost DEAFENING level sometimes) not to mention the music. (or lack there of sometimes) it all just built layer upon layer of suspense for me.

 

And SPEAKING of the music.. could Lang possibly have picked a more "haunting" theme (as the only real "music" in the movie??? UGH. Talk about "disturbing" Oh my golly.. just one guy whisteling In the Hall of the Mouhtain King. OH my gosh... what a "driving" rhythm.

 

I was hearing it in my head (even when it was not being whistled) In fact.. I need to go back and watch certain parts of the film again.. because it MIGHT have been my imagination.. but I even thought I heard the RHYTHM of the song being used in some of the "sounds" going on.. such as when Lorre is running through that building (where he is going to hide out) and all you can really hear is the sound of his feet.. and then later when he is locked into that room and he is "scraping" like some sort of "rat" gnawing on wood... I swear I was hearing that same "da da da dahhh da dahhh" rhythm in those moments... and also in a few other parts as well.

 

It most likely was just my mind playing tricks on me.. but golly.. I found it adding a whole other layer of "disturbance" to everything that I could NOT stop hearing that song as I was watching things play out.

 

And OH me.. oh my.. what can I say about Peter Lorre??????????????? How horrifyingly WELL played his character was.. so grotesque and yet so "innocent" looking.. .and even in some respects almost "pathetic"... almost "pitiable". But ONLY almost.

 

This was one of the more intriguing aspects of this film.. because pretty much right up to the VERY moment where he goes on "trial" I more or less knew what I wanted to happen to him.. with NO hesitation whatsoever. And then... things somehow took me by suprise....

 

Which brings me to just about THE most frustrating (and thought provoking) element of the story that has had me struggling with myself ALL week long. WHAT should society DO with someone like him??

 

UGH... what I THOUGHT was the easy answer really was NOT as easy for me as I wanted it to be. And I have to say that for a "free lawyer" (ha) his "legal counsel" may have not been your "typical" Perry Mason kinda guy.. but GOOD GRAVY what a speech he gave. And when you put that along side w/ Lorre's character's own speech (something to the effect of) "What do any of you know about what it is like to be ME?".. or something like that. OH my golly, it was a HUGE slap in the face to all my "black and white" thinking.

 

There really was MORE than one possible way to look at it all.. and UGH.. I hated finding myself in such "gray/grey" moment. (It was not what I expected at all.. but I mean that in a good way, ha)

 

Now truthfully.. at the risk of opening a can of worms (that I likely would not normally want to open) I will say that I DO believe (on a VERY personal opinion type level) that there are some crimes SO hideous that those who commit them do NOT deserve to draw another breath and should be dealt with in the most final and ultimate sentence that can be imposed.

 

And having said that.. I also believe that even despite some one's apparent "mental" illness.. there ARE still times (such as in situations like this story) when it may be just and fit for a hard sentence (such as death) to be carried out for the crimes an individual has committed.

 

Because Lorre's character (despite the fact that he DID have "compulsions" he was unable to control) understood that he WAS unable to control himself when his moments of "compulsion" set in... and that tells me he COULD have at least tried to seek out help for himself (even as far as turning himself in to the police, etc) so that he woudl not hurt anyone.

 

And I do not want to wage World War III here with anyone over the "death penalty" because I really don't think this is the time or the place for that, (and I know there will be those who will not like what I am saying) but I will say that I truly do believe that sometimes it is the "just and right" thing to hold someone like Lorre's character accountable for what they do... even if they have "mental issues" because not all "psycho's" are created equal. And "mental illness" is a relative term.

 

And by the way.. I believe that ANYONE who commits such a horrid crime (as the ones in this film) has to be "ill" on SOME level.. but despite their "illness" but at what point do we allow that to become a "defense"?? So for me.. THAT really is the question... admittedly.. there are no easy answers..

 

To me.. (and again.. this is SOLEY my opinion..and I allow for the fact that others might not agree) IF a person is "well enough" to comprehend that their mental state CAN be used as a "defense" for what they did (as in "Yes, I killed those kids, but... well.. I am just "crazy" and could not help myself and that is why I "did it") and IF they ARE able to comprehend that it is their "illness" making them commit such a crime.. (as Lorre's character clearly was).. Then it would seem to me that they DO bear a certain higher level of responsibility (to society). At least a greater one responsibilty than say some "crazed lunatic" who is clearly out of his head "berserk" and goes on some sort of killing spree. And so (though it is not necessarily a "popular" opinion) I believe a person who DOES understand what they did (and why) CAN sometimes be held more accountable.. even to the point of death.

 

Am I saying ALL "child murderers" deserve death?? No.. I guess I am not. But I am saying MANY of them try to use a defense of "mental illness" to avoid being held accountable for what they did after they are caught.. and to me.. even if they are "ill" on some level.. that is not an "automatic" pass.

 

But I will admit.. (especially after seeing this film) I have to say.. it is NOT always an automatic death penalty sentence either.. there is MUCH to be considered as all the layers unfold.. and "black and white" gal that I am.. I really HATE times like this when there are not "easy" solutions for me to fall back on.. (ugh.. ha.. how did I EVER end up w/ all this "GREY stuff to sort through?? Grey Guy.. you are a bad influence on me, ha)

 

Which brings me to one final thought... The END of the film does NOT give us any easy answers either, does it??

 

In fact.. it end with the story so "unfinished" in some respects that I had to do some investigating to make sure I actually was SEEING the end of the film (since I was watching youtube) I worried part of it might have been cut off. But NO.. the fact of the matter is.. Lang wraps things up for us by NOT wrapping things up for us. Instead, we are left w/ a box that has NO lid (unless we put it on there for ourselves)

 

We do not KNOW what happens to Lorre.. we do not get to see the end result... and so Lang leaves it up to our own conscience as to what fate we think should befall him. VERY intriguing.. though UGH.. I hate it and am intrigued by it all at the same time, ha) I LIKE the fact that he puts the ball back in "our" court to think for ourselves about what IS or is NOT the right answer. But BOY it sure does cause me to struggle in ways I never expected.

 

And also.. he give us another "layer" to add to our thinking in the comments made by the mothers as they sit in mourning after the trial.. The story ends with them saying something along the lines of "WE should have watched over our children more". Now THAT was totally not what I was expecting.. but I think maybe Lang is reminding us how FLEETING life can be.. and the more "precious" it is (as in.. a child's life) the more tragic it is when it is lost. And as parents we bear an AWESOME responsibility and we owe a HUGE debt to our kids that takes a lifetime to pay (As we truly can NEVER be too careful when it comes time to guard and care for our children)

 

It is a sobering thought.

 

And yes.. sometimes despite ALL our efforts.. admittedly.. the monster will come LOOKING for our kids in what SHOULD be the safest of places.. (inside their home.. our their own front yard) Sadly, no matter WHAT a parent does, things can sometimes go wrong.

 

But too often, the vast majority of the time.. a single careless moment out in public is the only opportunity needed for someone like Lorre's charcter to gain the upper hand.. and then all is lost. And no.. I am not saying these mothers "deserved" to lose their kids because they were careless.(NO not EVER would I say that) But oh me.. the fact is.. we can NEVER be too careful.. and we will NEVER get a second chance to "fix it" once all hope is lost.

 

As a mother I have to say that is a SOBERING reality that haunts me enough already.. The bottom line is that our kids are our MOST precious and GREATEST treasure. No matter WHAT laws may be there for our "protection" as a society.. it is always (and ultimatley) up to us to keep them safe. And Lang's tragic reminder brings it all back to the front of my mind as I mull it over again and again.

 

Well.. this is more than enough "babbling" from me for now. Thanks for letting me work through some of this stuff while I am gabbing here. And to be honest.. I likely still have more in my head and heart that I could mention but I wil spare you that for now. But I will say again how glad I was to be able to see this film.. disturbing though it may have been (and will likely continue to be) for me. Thanks for letting me blab a bit.

[Western Movie Rambles]

Get crackin'

 

HEY!! Thanks for posting that.Iswear I THOUGHT I looked for this film on youtube a while back when you first mentioned it.. but maybe I am thinking of another one.. my memory gets fuzzy that way in my old age, ha.

 

So now.. "woo hoo" I watched all the parts I missed.. (it was basically the first three youtubes.. so thirty minutes is about right. I came in pretty much all the way after that. (although NOW I am going to be holding my eyes open w/ scotch tape in the morning. ha)

 

OH.. and NOW after watching.. I am even MORE convinced that Scott's character did exactly what he was planning on doing (with regard to giving Billy over to Boone and Whit) at least based on the conversation where Boone tells him that he WANTS to take Billy from him.

 

Which gives me a whole "re-think" on Boone.. hmmm... WOULD he have told him that IF he were a REAL "black hat"? Possibly. (to try and psyche him out maybe) but I am not so sure. I think he was on the up and up.. even if he was rather "un-readable" because of his "smart mouth" attitudes.

 

Oh.. ha..and good golly.. that Billy. MY GOODNESS ME what a snivelling weasle. I knew he was a big jerk (from the parts I had already seen) but WOW. What a low-life. (may I just say.. EWWW!) ha. Those opening moments w/ that whole exchange between Scott and his character.. I wanted to reach out and hit him with a big fat ROCK. ha.

 

PS Miss G and Clore.. nice catch on "Hondo" I see it even MORE now (after watching the earlier portions of the film. .right down to Boone's character telling the story about the wife who just one day decided to "up and kill" her husband.. because she got "mad". That is almost line for line out of the other movie. (if memory serves)

 

The Grey Guys says:

 

The film that is most similar to Ride Lonesome is The Naked Spur

 

I am not 100% sure but I THINK that is one I have not seen yet. (if I have seen it, it is not ringing any bells) And I usually love Jimmy.. .so I don't know why.. but for some reason I have never sought it out, though I have heard it spoken of very favorably.