rohanaka

It's a very unique film OH me. That was quite a clip. Very intense. I also watched the other youtube that I saw pop up for this film when I clicked on your link. (it showed a woman being interrogated and tortured) Dadgum, that Mann was quite the dark and grim fellow wasn't he? I will have to put this one on my radar to try and catch it I ever see it playing... but I do not know if I would actively seek it out. I think I am too big a chicken for that much "intensity" ha. Yet I also know myself well enought to admit if I started watching it.. this would probably be a movie I would not be able to walk away from once it was on ((just based on what I saw here) However I imagine (again..just from those two clips) I would likely be an emotional wreck by the time the movie was over.. ha. But I mean that in a good way. :-) Oh.. and PS: I hope to get back w/ you on They Live By Night in the next day or so..that is IF I can manage to stay awake this time... ha.. And no. it is not a reflection on the movie.. ha. .it is just ME being too much of an old fogey movie watcher these days, I guess. In fact.. ugh... it pains me to admit that I just woke up from an "unplanned" nap only a little while ago, ha. That seems to be happening to me a LOT lately. (A dvd and a soft couch is a recipe for disaster, I guess. ha) :-)

Happy, Happy, HAPPY Birthday Chris!! Wishing you all the best, dear sir!!! Enjoy your day!

You're focusing on the wrong person. Reverend Powell (Robert Mitchum) is the villain (King Herod), not the hero. The hero is Rachel (Lillian Gish). And what is her "weapon"? Yes, she shoots him with a shotgun, but her real weapon is the Bible and her faith. And she preaches to the children, which is us. I was only focusing on him because that is who I thought YOU were focusing on in one of your posts.. I may have misread you. And it is true that there are some very BIG moments with Rachel expressing her faith (and even using like a "weapon" to defend her little ones) but I still do not think that is what would qualify this as a "religious" movie. Truthfully.. I think we have different definitions for that. It would not be the first time. I seem to recall having a similar conversation with you regarding your use of the word "boring" to describe a Ford film that you found " intersting and exciting" (if I am quoting you correctly) We evidently march to the beat of our own "DICTIONARIES" ha. I will try to watch it next week. I doubt it will be my speed because of religion and war, but I need to watch it to find out. I'm banking on Hawks Well, let me know what you think of it. I'm tough. ha. I can take it. Oh gee.. I will be on the edge of my seat for sure, now. (Guess I'd better go put another rope into the freezer.. and maybe sharpen my hatpin.) HA!

I'd hate to bring up THE NEXT VOICE YOU HEAR into this Ha.. Ollie so would I. It may only be because I have only seen just a part of that movie.. but I have never quite known what to make of it.. but OH me.. just imagine.. if...

Mr. ChiO says: The story is a mish-mash of hard-boiled detective fiction, romantic melodrama and B-Western dressed in 18th century costumes The Grey Guy replies: Basically, Shakespearean noir. Fascinating. And you're also right about the mixing in of melodrama and western Well NOW you gents have really got me curious. That sounds like a truly intriguing combination. Oh my golly.. the more I hang out here.. the more I realize that I have WAY too many movies I have yet to see to even come close to keeping up w/ you folks. WOW, I am truly thankful to have started this thread so long ago to be able to get a chance to learn more about and hear of so many movies I might otherwise have NEVER known about before. But AAAGGHHH.. my list of "wanna see's" is SO "bulging at the seams" lately. I do not think I will ever catch up. I am such a "movie watching" wannabe compared to most of you... To borrow from a famous late night talk show host.. .thank goodness this is "ONLY an exhibition.. and not a competition" Ha.

one of my very favorite films is The Night of the Hunter and that is very religious. Funny you should bring up Night of the Hunter, Grey Guy.. Mitchum's character is a PERFECT contrast to Gish's (in terms of him having a "said faith" and her's being a "REAL faith". I L-O-V-E love the scene where she is inside w/ her shotgun sitting in the dark in her rocking chair.. and he is outside.. and starts singing "Leaning on the Everlasting Arm" and she sings along too.. BOTH of them were singing the same song.. but from a TOTALLY different point of view.. and for a completely different REASON. Anyway.... to get to my point.. despite "religious" references... and his constant use (or misuse) of scripture, etc... I do not in ANY way view this movie as a "religious" film but there are moments of "faith" in the story.. however NONE of them are on the part of Mitchum's character. But again.. it all comes down to interpretation and point of view, I guess. For the record, one of your very favorite films is Sergeant York and I'm wary to watch it because I feel like it's going to be too religious. And I'm a Howard Hawks fan. Maybe I need to take that challenge and see if my fears are justified or not Well I do not presume to know how much "fear" you should have of it.. but I can say that if you feel THIS film (HH) was too "religious" you will likely have similar feelings about Sgt York. There are numerous moments throughout the film where people are praying.. quoting scripture, and putting their faith to use in real and practical ways. But again.. in no way do I view it as a "sales pitch" for becoming a Christian so much as it is a story.. about a man.. who happened to come to faith and it changed his life.. and then he carried that change in him throughout the rest of the events in the story. I personally think it is a very inspiring story (based at least in part on fact) about one man maintaining his personal integrity and accomplishing an outstanding and truly heroic feat, despite great odds. I hope you will give it a chance someday.. but given the issues you have had w/ HH, I am thinking it is not going to be your "cup o tea" too much. (Oh..ha.. and PS: aside from the religous stuff.. there is at least one scene that has some "good ole' boy" comedic bar room brawling in it too.. ha. And we all know how highly you regard THAT sort of action in a movie too. HA!)

I just happen to disagree Well again I say... fair enough, my dear (DEAR) Grey Guy. There are some very strong "moments" of faith in the movie.. but again.. I do not think it is all THE movie. But I say again... I DO think we are all entitled to our own opinions and so we may not always see eye to eye on things... .and that is OK with me if it is OK with you. we see him reading the Bible and we are even shown a passage. So it's being pushed Ok.. so following THAT line of reasoning.. If I see a movie character smoking a joint and shooting up after they met up drug dealer (a lifestyle which I find VERY distasteful by the way) are THOSE sorts of things being "pushed" on ME? Why is his behavior so objectionable (considering what he had been experiencing and what he was doing?) And PS: for the record.. when they show the scripture that he is reading.. did you notice what was on the table next to him??? And also.. did you notice how selfish the tone of his prayer was to God?? He was FAR from being any sort of "model" set up for us to follow after (if the intent of this part of the story was to win the viewer over to "religion") But maybe we are getting hung up on the word "religious". To me.. a "religious" movie may not be the word that fits with what you seem to be struggling over.. because I think the REAL issue here (for you) is not so much the "faith" of the characters but more that you feel the "faith message" is being "pushed" upon the viewer in a purposeful and intentional way. So perhaps the term "Evangelistic" movie might be a better description. at least in how you define what it is you have a problem with about the movie. I THINK you are implying that HH is a film that seeks to "evangelize" as it entertains. And see.. to me.. that is not the way I see it. But of course we don't have to see eye to eye.. so I will not belabor the point anymore. Two people can look at the very same painting and study it for hours on end and both will walk away with an entirely DIFFERENT point of view and that is what we have going on HERE as well.. you see it one way.. and I see it another.. Never mind that we saw the exact same thing (in terms of physical content).. our perspectives are what make the difference for us. And again.. please know I am not in any way trying to make you see things "my way". I see we are at an impasse.. and to go on and on and on more or less would just be us repeating ourselves.. ha. So I'll give you the last word and this will be "it" for me on the subject. And PS:I appreciate your honesty... and your friendship. I hope you know that NOTHING I have said here was meant in anything but the most respectful way. We are clearly not going to agree.. but I want you to know how much I appreciate your willingness to let me discuss this with you in a reasonable manner. I have always found you to be very fair when it comes to conversations like this. And that means a lot to me. Believe me.. if I thought for ONE minute this was going to be a "bloody mess" of a battle.. ha.. I'd have been done w/ this chat a long time ago. :-) (see.. now don't you wish you would have insulted me or something.. ha. THEN I might have shut up sooner!! ha) Edited by: rohanaka on Oct 14, 2010 1:08 AM

We're all lucky to have you as a friend, Movieman. You're nothing but class Woo HOO Grey Guy.. something we agree on!! :p PS: Good golly.. ha.. in re-reading my earler post... I see that not ONLY am I the "blabbing" queen.. I am also "Her Serene Highness of Misspelled Words"! ha. So my friends.. feel free to LAUGH at me behind my back.. ha. If EVER I deserved it.. this would be one of those times. ha. Oh my golly.. what a POOR poor typist I am. But it is late and I am too tired to go back an correct it all, ha. Alas.. I shall go down in history as the girl who was TOO tired to spell.. ha) I can live with that. :-)

But does a bad guy have to sit down and read the Bible to change? Does he have to pray to God? Does he have to follow God? That seems highly religious to me. Ok.. stick with me my DEAR Grey friend.. If I am not careful I will sound like I am trying to have it both ways.. because I do NOT think this is a "relgious" movie.. but rather a movie with "relgion" in it. First of all.. to answer your questions above: NO. A person does not have to read or pray, etc.. to change. There are many ways to "change" a person so one does not have to adopt a "relgion" to change their attitude about something. But Blaze DID.. and that is the point. That is what changed HIM. (along with the feelings he had for Faith.. but more on that in a moment) And PS: Regarding the comparisons you are making to the other movies... both of the women in AATBM and HN were not "evangelists" as someone already pointed out.. but Faith was.. so you would expect her to be "preaching" and "praying". Plus.. the women in those other two films LOVED the other two men pretty much from the beginning of the story so THAT is what those two storylines focused more on with regard to their characters, rather than their faith. I don't think Faith felt that way about Blaze anywhere NEAR as early on as he did about her. So for MOST of the story.. you see her as who she was in that moment.. rather than being "interested" in him as "husband material". But at any rate, getting back to your question.. the types of changes BLAZE experienced in this film DID lead up to all the actions you are referring to later on (the praying.. and Bible reading) so I guess the bottom line is WHAT it was that truly changed him (vs what changed the other two guys) WAS it his love for her that changed him (so deeply?) Maybe in part.. but I submit there was more to it. I think there WAS a "spiritual" change in him apart from his love for her. (And PS: we get to see Quirt making changes gradually.. but who KNOWS really about what sorts of changes WILL had by the way.. since he was already getting MARRIED at the beginning of the story? And.. the change in HIS character was not the "focus" of the story so much as it is in HH) And PS some more: Not to take anything away from her.. but I think Amy adopted the "Quaker" lifestyle as much as she did the Quaker faith. She did not want "violence" as a part of her life.. but that was more because of what happened to her father and brothers than it was about what she "believed" in) But I digress... That's pretty doggone religious, to me. The cross is very prevalent in the film. Grey Guy.. to be as carefully respectful as I can here.. (no kidding) I think you are missing a key point. Why SHOULDN'T it be "prevalent"? One of the things I think you are not taking into account is the REASON they are in Hell's Hinges in the first place. The brother was a pastor.. sent there to preach and be a minister to the folks in the church and the town. And his sister was there to help. It should come as no suprise that there would be those sorts of "images" and messages in the story. (though admittedly OTHER films might not be so "up front" about the plot in this regard) Also.. one the key character (as a part of the plot) is led to faith (and repentance) by the life and message of one of the other key characters. So it should come as no suprise that there is "scrippture" being quotes as a part of that. It is a defining part of the story. Should they just "gloss" over all that as if it is not THE reason for the rest of the film (more or less?) I don't say this to be confrontational.. but to me.. if I were going to watch a movie that centers on.... say.. someone going to watch a football game.. I would expect to see a football.. and some tackles.. a "football coach" and even perhaps someone selling hotdogs in the stands, ha. Those are things associated with that sort of story. So to see "religious" themes in a story that is centured around people of faith (and those opposed to them) is no big suprise, at least to me. But that does not NECESSARILY make it a "religious" film so much as a film that has "religious" characters and themes as a part of the story. And in answer to your other question... So what do you think the film is really about? That is not so easy to answer... Because I agree with what Miss G says here: I thought the movie was about a "good bad man". I was focused on his character, to tell the truth, so the others were seen by me as catalysts for what action and decisions he would make Sometimes.. good men will do bad things.. and other times.. 'bad men" will do good things. The story (to me) is about Blaze.. and how he grows and changes as a person because of something (or someone) who comes along and makes a difference in his way of thinking. (Much like Bull and the boys in 3 Bad Men) So, athough I don't entirely agree that this would be a "religious" movie.. I do admit that there is a level of "religion" in this film (more so, perhaps, than many other films that have characters who are people of faith) but again, I do not think that neccessarily makes it a "religious" film. Again.. if it were a story that had football players in a football game as a major part of the story, it might not BE a "football" movie.. but you would STILL expect to see a football game somewhere along the line.. (does that make sense?) It is a film where two of the main characters are "a pastor and his sister" moving to a town to "set up a church" so it would make sense that there would be messages of faith SOMEWHERE in the midst of everything. And again.. I think that this film takes a rather innovative approach to that subject in that it does not apologize or try to hide the "subject" matter. So maybve THAT is why you notice it more in THIS movie than in other ones you may have seen befofe. One of the main charactters is a committed and devout Christian. That is who she (Faith) was.. so that is how she acted. But having said that... I think this film is MORE than all I have mentioned above.. because it is also a drama about the brother and sister.. and how she is there to try and "help" him to NOT go astray (if you watch her expressions early on in the film she KNOWS he is weak and needs to be held accountable.. and she LOVES him enough to want to help him) And the story also shows how the brother's duplicity brings about a tragic ending to not only his church.. but his very life. AND then on a whole other level.. it is also a romance. Blaze may well have a "repentant" heart and becomes a believer in this story.. but there is NO denying that he falls head over heels for Faith.. and his watchcare over her and his love for her (when she learns about her brother being at Dolly's, etc) not to mention his second prayer "for" her at the end are very moving. But I do think for MOST of the movie..his "love" is one sided. She DOES eventually fall in love with him SOMEWHERE along the way. And she may not be "in love" with him as early on in the story as he is with her.. but by the end of it.. I think she has come to love him in a romantic way is relying on a future with him as they walk off into.. what was it.. the sunset??? (ha) Anyway.. it is not so easy to fit this movie into just one box because it is not just "one type" of story or another.. so in that sense, I guess you could say it is a "multi-faceted" western, ha. Yet another of those "complex" things Jackie brought up.. (Ok. ha. leave it to me to spend PARAGRAPHS saying what everyone was able to pin down so eloquently in just a few lines.. ha. I am the "blabbing" queen to be sure)

As usual, it's about sensibilities. Everyone has their lines. What's violent to one person may not be to another. This is an area where my sensibilities are easily disturbed. It's on the "too much" side, for me. And I can totally respect that. I do agree there are some "story lines" that may be more one person's "flavor" than another. You have heard ME come down on why I don't like certain themes that others find appealing.. so we all have our "things" when it comes to stuff like that. As for this film, I think where we differ the most is that what you saw as "preachy" I saw as simply saw as a way to show who she was as a person.. (it really does all more or less come down to personal opinion and taste) For my money, it was not unreasonable to expect her to say those sorts of things.. (and have scripture used to describe things going on in the story as well) considering her character and who she was and what was happening) I like that you get a more complete picture of the characters (in silents films) by the sorts of things that are said about them in those little lines that pop up to tell the story. and I liked how she was "unashamed" of who she was.. and so was the movie. And PS: But I don't know what the image below is about This is soley my opinion.. so I would not presume to be any sort of authority.. but the message I got from that image is that she was literally CLINGING to the cross as her source of strength in the face of the persecution that had been going on from the Hell Towners (if I am remembering the scene correctly) She is pleading her cause to the only one in her mind who could truly defend and protect her... there is other symbolism too.. in that she is wearing white.. and she is on the "stormy rocks".. perhaps of doubt or fear. Someone else might have a different view.. but in my mind.. she was leaning and relying on Christ (and him alone) for help. (and that is about all I will say about that.. ha. So now, to borrow from Sean Connery in The Untouchables... "there endeth the lesson") :-) PS: Jackie.. you are usually the "treasure trove" for me.. ha. so I am glad I found a "youtube" for YOU this time. ha. . And PS: some more.. YOU are not nearly so far behind in your movie watching as I am, little darlin'. ha. If I am not careful.. the SHIFTLESS one will have to turn in his "crown" and name ME the most "shirking" when it comes to movie-watching "duty" ha. Oh me.. where DOES the time go???? :-)

Helllo Mr. Grey... Well, you're right. He resists with Bob's words but he listens when Faith talks. He wants to be with her, to do right by her. For him to do this, he must enter her world. And I believe he does so with honesty. He's not doing so just to humor her. I think I may have not valued his motives as much as I should have (early in our chat) because it had been a while since I watched the film and I had forgotten some key moments. I think he did change very quickly on ONE level.. so you did have it right when you said that. But I also think the deeper, lasting, and life changing moments were also gradual for him. To use a couple of "biblical" terms.. there is a difference between "justification" and "sanctification" and I do not presume to be any sort of authority on those two doctrines.. but a person is "justified" once.. at the moment of belief.. "redeemed" at the moment of repentence if you will. But "sanctification" is a process.. and it never truly is something that will be achieved this side of heaven.. but as believers we are called to keep working toward that goal. As a new believer.. Blaze did not have the background or the time spent in following after the One he had come to know yet.. so he was bound to fall back on the things he DID know.. until such time as he grew and became more mature in his faith. Which leads me to THIS from Jackie: Wouldn't you say a simple hero would round up the perpetrators and march them off to jail? If a man has not experienced evil, it is a very simple thing to be moralistic. You can talk a good game, but unless you are tested, your goodness is a hollow bell. I found Hart's mix of good and bad to be very profound, especially in the scene where he holds the Helltowners captive in the fire. Is this what a good man would do? I say, no! It is complex. How do you feel watching the movie at that point? I was thrown for a loop, because it seemed almost outrageous that a hero would do such a thing. It is a villain's place to hold someone's feet to the fire. It made me think twice about my notions of good and bad. A good man can slip off the wagon every now and then, and maybe that is not a bid thing always. I say that Hart is suggesting that a hero should be a mostly good man, but that the added grit that a bad past offers is what was needed out west to survive. In tempering his morals with humanity, he created a new, stronger, complex character. Oh little darlin...' that was very well said. And you are right.. it was not what a "good man" WOULD do.. but none of us is good in the "truest" sense of the word. We all have our faults and failings.. and deep down inside he allowed the things in him that were NOT yet "perfected" to come out. He had not learned enough yet (nor attained the sort of personal strength needed) to be able to turn the other cheek. He was not wrong to be angry... but he was WRONG about the way he chose to respond to the anger. He WAS thinking like a "bad guy" but at least he was doing it out of a "righteous" anger.. and ultimately.. the new righteousness that he had in him caused him to let them all go. He might not have done that otherwise. "Complex" is the right word for it. And PS: for the record.. even the BEST can fall sometimes. But again.. to be "sanctified" is a process and Blaze was at the VERY beginning on this road. It is not always easy to control the "natural" instincts we all have in our hearts to do things "our way" so he had a LONG way to go.. And by the way.. ha.... trust me when I say.. I could write a book about THAT.. But let's don't go THERE! ha) :-) The Grey Guy says: I guess the bottom line is I don't like the topic matter. Those kind of films drive me crazy. They upset me. Fair enough. But to be honest.. I am curious what it was about the film that "upset" you. I know there was a lot of "Christian" imagery.. like the part where she is praying and you see the image (over top of her face) where she is clinging to the cross on the beach) etc.. and I can see someone not "liking" the way some of the themes were presented.. or maybe even not liking the subject matter. We are all entitled to our own opinions so I would never presume to say you should or should not like or dislike anything.. And I do freely admit the "faith messages" and imagery is very strong in this story. I know you felt like it was too "Sunday School-ish". But I truly feel that the subject was shown from balanced perspective. I say this mainly because if it were a film that wanted to just go "all out" with a "gospel" message and "preach" to the viewer, it would NOT likely have had the PASTOR be a lecherous drunk who dies in his sin... at the very least he likley would have repented at the last minute. Jackie is right.. this film gives us WAY more than the "typical" storyline. I have to say I found it all very refreshing. At any rate, I think these sorts of stories are very valuable.. and very RARE. In fact.. even MORE rare now than when this film was made. And I am not even saying all this just because I am looking at the story from a "faith" perspective. But I am simply saying that this film DID sort of raise the bar in terms of being "innovative" because it did NOT take the typical "road" when it came to faith issues. So many times faith is kept "in the background" of the story and of litte consequence to the characters or why they do what they do.. OR more often the "believers" are all just a bunch of "hypocrytes" instead of being genuine followeres of what they say they believe. And the thing I liked THE most about this story was that it did not go EITHER of those two routes.. you had a LOT of "grit" and a VERY compelling story.. but it was still fair in how it showed the sister.. Not TOO many "people of faith" in movies of this nature (especailly westerns) are shown in such a positive and inspiring light. But there she was.. working and living out her REAL faith in spite of her brother's FALSE faith.. and in the midst of all the OTHER stuff that was going on. So many times (especially when western movies get made) it is always the "good girls" or the "church ladies" who are looking down their noses at the "lesser than" citizens. They are often shown as the "fine upstanding citizens" who are the most "hypocritical" of all. But she (Faith) was NOTHING of the sort. She was real, and she was genuine in her spirit, her love, and her faith. And she did not look down on ANYONE... no matter their station in life or their "mocking" of her and the things she held dear. Again.. I say.. refreshing. Ok.. I did not mean to go so far out on a limb there, but I truly do see this film that way. (I hope nothing I have said was in any way sounding "confrontational) I freely admit not everyone will see it from my point of view. But as I am always fond of saying... that is what makes these sorts of chats fun (at least for me) I genuinely enjoy a good discussion and a "respectufl debate sometimes too, as you well know (and also the occassional "goofing around knock down drag out with you too, HA.) but I hope I have not come across in any way too heavy handed here. And having said all that.. thank you (all of you) for putting up with me. Feel free to just roll your eyes and say "Oh that Kathy.. she is going off on one of THOSE tangents again" ha) (PS.. Miss G... you are so right.. I wonder if the makers of this film had ANY idea we'd all be here lo these many, many... MANY years later just gabbing away about this movie.. who'da thunk it???) OH.. and PS: some more.. Jackie..thanks for those links to the two films. Also.. I found Diary of a Lost Girl on youtube too.. SOMEWHERE along the line I hope to get a chance to watch ALL of these.. someday... Edited by: rohanaka on Oct 13, 2010 8:46 PM

Doggone it Grey Guy..ha I am going to be holding my eyeballs open with TOOTHPICKS in the morning, ha. But you really got me to thinking about all this and while you were typing your last post.. I went into that website that Jackie had posted way back when we first chatted on this movie (which is a way cool site by the way) and looked at some "excerpts" of the scenes where he meets her and starts down his "road to redemption" and I watched some of the stuff at the end. too. up to the very end in fact. And I do confess that I might not have remembered it all as "firmly' as I should have (in terms of how "deeply changed" he was from the beginning. You are right in that he DID change a lot after he first met her.. and pretty quickly. But I still maintain that his total redemption (spiritually and emotionally speaking) were a gradual thing. Among other reasons, the best example I can give is if you look at the two prayers I mentioned ealier.. first he prays selfishly "for her" with no real sincere belief that God was listening... almost "bold' and "in God's face" so to speak. And then later.. at the end.. he prays in humility of spirit.. on her behalf.. "for her" asking God to make her happy. It took TIME for him to grow into that sort of faith.. and he did not "change" that way all at once. (And PS: I like how God answered his FIRST prayer... and second prayer all at the same time.. again.. as you say.. the ending was very "hopeful".) Lamby showed more fight and emotion. Faith just seemed to be a symbol Now see.. again.. it is all a matter of personal taste and opinion.. because I see them BOTH as having a similar spirit (in terms of "fight and emotion" but just not for the same reasons or motivations. And NOT at all in any sort of similar way. At any rate, I wanted to say that after watching these bits and pieces of the movie again tonight, I am all the more convinced in Faith's attributes and strength of character. At the risk of sounding a bit preachy... I found her to be a very strong woman.. strong in faith.. and in her love for God.. his kingdom and her brother. And also eventually.. for Hart's character as well. And I REALLY liked how she looked after her brother while she looked out for the ministry too. Deep down she knew his weaknesses and did her best to help him (perhaps hoping God would do the rest and truly make him the man he should have been all along) Wow.. just watching what I did again.. makes me want to sit down with this story and watch it all the way through once more. (but NOT tonight. I am going to drop off asleep at ANY moment if I do not get up from here, ha) But thanks again SO much Jackie, for bringing this film up earlier this year. And thanks to YOU Grey Guy for giving it a chance. Maybe if you are nice.. ha.. I will save you some Teddy Grahams from NEXT week's Sunday School Class, ha. Nah.. you'd likely just try to spit them out since they are not made of sawdust... and I hate to see a good Teddy Graham go to waste. ha.

I don't even remember any of that! I thought she was boring. Give me Dolly (Louise Glaum) OH golly.. it is getting late and I am an OLD woman.. and so now you have me wondering if I am making it all up in my MIND. ha. (wouldn't be the first time..and I may need to go back and look at it all again) But TRULY that is how I am remembering her. And PS: Dolly?? tsk tsk... talk about "duplicitous. Ok.. so maybe she was more "coniving" than dishonest.. but SHE will only lead you down the path of destruction for sure, ha. She had her job description down pat. Surely you can do better than that.. I thought you liked your "lambie" sorts of gals. To me.. Faith (at least the way I am remembering her) was a "lambie". But maybe just not as "lovely" a lamb as your sweet Grace. He wants to impress her, so he does look to change for her. That is very sweet of him. But he pretty much did a 180 by just seeing her. It was immediate Well, this is likely one of those times where we are just not going to see it the same way no matter what. But in all fairness I SHOULD go back and watch again to refresh my memory. But I will also ask if you really think that the sorts of changes that came over him early on would have been lasting ones if the story had ended right there.. with him having a "love at first sight" moment with her.. and just wanting to impress her by not being a "bad guy" any more? I don't. At that point, I do not think there was any sort of change in him that would have made a long lasting permanent difference in terms of who he was DEEP down inside. And the reason I say that is the sort of things he did and said after that part (where he first "defends" her. That may have been what started it all, but it took TIME for him to reason out all the things he saw in who she was (not just that first meeting with her) And I believe it takes time for most people to reason out the sorts of changes that TRULY change ones life. (Though not always. There may be a "bolt of lightening" moment for some people (like in the film Sgt York.. where Alvin gets knocked off that mule LITERALLY by a bolt of lightening and becomes a new man on the spot) But I did not see THAT sort of repentant heart in Hart's character until MUCH later in the story. And again.. that is just my opinion.. so take it for what it is worth. (and since I already know you see it differenlty I know it is not likely worth much, but I will get over it). HA. All kidding aside, that again is to me one of the fun things about movie discussions like this. We can all bring our thoughts and points of view to the table.. and we may all see things our own way.. but it is still fun to discuss it back and forth and maybe get to understand the characters and story from a different point of view. (And then after that... I get to stick you with my hat pin, HA)

Howdy Mr. Grey... I also watched Ride Lonesome. While the Boetticher westerns have fallen in the "middle" on my favorites list, I really like them Golly.. you are really going to town with all your movie watching young'un. Very impressive. This has been a banner year for you, ha. I like that you have been getting so involved w/ so many different types of movies too. Way cool. (I need to check out RL myself, by the way) liked the end, primarily the sweetness of Blaze. I also liked the burning of the church and saloon. As Jackie said, those visuals were on the shocking side. But I really wasn't into the first two acts I think it likely is just a matter of personal taste. I did not mind a lot of the themes in the early part of the film.. and I especially liked the struggling moments w/ the sister and her heartfelt desire to both serve God and help her brother too. I found her to be a vey inspiring character. I did not find her "Pollyanna-ish" or "Goody Goody" the way a lot of "good girls" are often played in stories like this. Instead she was very strong.. and VERY committed to a cause she believed in with her whole heart and she gave all her soul, mind, and strength toward it and she did not give in to what most people might have felt afraid of if they had been in similar circumstances. Anyway.. that is how I am remembering her.. The scenes that leaned a bit heavier on her real faith were used quite well as a contrast with her brother's false faith and I thought this to be one of the strong suits of the early parts of the movie. But again.. it is likely a matter of what sorts of characteristics one finds appealing in a main character or in a story for that matter. As for Hart.. I don't quite see his "change of heart" as being so immediate as you do. True.. he did do an "about face" in terms of what he initially set out to do pretty quickly, and I think that is because he STARTED to change when SHE got his attention. He may have had a desire in his heart for HER.. but it was not a complete change of mind and heart and purpose (in terms of who he was a person) yet. All those things that "changed" for him early on are not the same as the other, deeper changes that came over him (both emotionally and spiritually) toward both her.. and God... later on in the story. Those deeper more permanent differences in his character were not so immediate (as I recall) and they became a gradual thing for him as the story went on. And again.. this is just how I am remembering it.. it has been just long enough since I watched it all that I might be "off" a bit.. but that is how it seems to me looking back on it all. I would be constantly sitting in the "sin bin" in your class! NO such thing.. ha. I am SURE you would be RIGHT at home w/ the rest of our "little darlin's" (and PS: all kidding aside, VERY rarely do we EVER have to "get tough" with our bunch of young'uns in that class. MOST of them are well behaved.. ha. But once in a while one of them will have a "moment" and then they have to go sit in the grown up class w/ mom or dad.) But oh.. I just thought of something.. you'd NEVER last in our Sunday School class... ha.You'd have to go sit with the grown ups anyway.. ha. We do NOT have "sawdust" or saur kraut cookies fo snack time. Only Teddy Grahams. :p I thought the lines were clearly drawn and a little cartoonish. But the violence surprised me It is true that there was not much "grey" with any of these characters. But I do not see their "black and whiteness' as cartoonish. Again, I think for the time this film was made.. it was very evenly set (in terms of how the characters were presented) We were not supposed to have to "figure them out" so much as figure out what they were going next to do based on what we already knew about who they were. That is sometimes a nice way to tell a story too. Although I do admit.. (even if a bit grudginly, ha) that SOMETIMES it does help a story to have to "wonder" about a character (in terms of their moral fiber and how that will affect the choices they make) Both ways of telling a story are entertaining IF you have well thought out and interesting characters to work with. I didn't view him as a nasty sinner. But I guess since he was to be the most faithful, he was not to be tempted. We was just weak, that's all His biggest "sins" were not his outward acts. They were INSIDE his duplicitous heart. He PRETENDED to be one thing but was REALLY something else altogether. (And what he PRETENDED to be was WAY too important to just let him get away with acting any old way he pleased when no one was looking) That to me made him FAR worse in deed than the "Hell-towners" They were OPENLY sinful and very depraved but they really only had THEMSELVES to answer to and for (at least on an earthy level). But aside from being a preacher and responsible to God.. HE was responsible to his flock, and his church leaders, his sister AND even the townspeople whom he had gone to witness and minister to. He had the greater burden of responsibility so he had the greater guilt. I really didn't have a problem with Bob. His family and the Church elders knew what he was yet they let him continue. They basically knew he was going to fail. They failed him I do agree with you.. both his mother AND the church leaders who sent him there let him down. They (the leaders) even let down the people of that town. They lost sight of their own responsibility and did not care about what was best for him or for the town.. only about how to keep him from being an embarrassment to them. That is a HUGE "flaw" in their thinking and their actions really do make them at least somewhat accountable on a certain level for all the wrong deeds HE committted as well. Really only his sister seemed to have the right perspective as far as what they were SUPPOSED to be there for. She took her responsibilities to God, her brother, the church, and that town all very seriously. And again, I think she truly was an inspiring character in that regard. I was going to write that 3 Bad Men is a happy ending with me, but there's a lot of tragedy, so I just couldn't call it happy. The ending to both films is hopeful more so than happy. Nothing wrong with that. That is a great way to say it (hopeful) and I agree.. both films end that way (though the endings are not really similar otherwise) Nice catch. Edited by: rohanaka on Oct 11, 2010 11:09 PM

And now I have Well aren't YOU Mister Busy Guy..ha. I am glad you got a chance to watch it. Hope you have a few more comments for us, but from what I read so far, it sounds like a mixed review from you. (I am such a lousy "pegger" when it comes to trying to imagine whether you will like a movie or not) but from what I read it sounds like there were parts you did enjoy. (Whew.. I am glad it was not a total loss.... shades of MCLINTOCK!! ha) :-) SPOILERS UnHINGED: The ending saves the film for me Now see.. that was a suprise for me to read... ha. It ends on a "positve" note so I figured that would be your biggest complaint. I thought I was back in Sunday school. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Ha... on behalf of Sunday School Teachers everywhere.. I can only say.. "OH come on now, and snap out of it, and just settle yourself down.":p (That is what I tell the "unruly" little boys in the kindergarten Sunday School class each week and.. gee.. it USUALY does the trick, ha. Maybe because THEY know how to listen. For you.. I am sure we will have to break out the hat pin or something. HA) I do agree that there were some pretty strong "faith" themes in the film.. but I really did not feel like they were all as heavy handed as they MIGHT have been given the time this movie was made. Truly I felt you got a GOOD mix of "saints" and "sinners" and their differing points of view with this story. Admittedly, it WAS pretty clear who the "good and bad" guys were in this story..but I liked that the BIGGEST "sinner" of all was the one who SHOULD have been the most reliable and faithful.. and he paid a HUGE price for it in the end. And RE: Hart's character.. the turn around for him, to ME, was very moving..and pretty well paced. It is not like one of those "instant" Christian moments where he just turned over a whole new leaf out of the blue. It took him a while. and it was a gradual thing. And the screen cap you posted of him praying is one of my fave parts. I really like how he ends up praying FOR her (as in "for her welfare and happiness" rather than his selfish way of praying "for" her earlier on.. as in.. wanting her for himself) It showed how far he'd finally travelled (in terms of who he was as a person) from what he started out like early on in the film. (But then you know me.. ha. I am a sucker for a good old fashioned repentance story) Once they killed the parson (Jack Standing) and torched the church, I was into the film That was SOMETHING, wasn't it. Oh, that brother was such a piece of work.. I say again,, he paid HUGE price. A very tragic end to his tale to be sure. Edited by: rohanaka on Oct 11, 2010 7:47 PM

Oh golly.. I am with Miss G and Jackie..ha I yield to all the superior list making skills on this thread. ha. WAY cool lists Mr. Movieman and FXReyman too. Golly I am going to have to look into some of these titles and likely there will be a HUGE revision in my wanna see list (because I don't just have a "I wish I owned that movie" list. ha. My WANNA see list is THE list I really am most interested in crossing off..ha. And I have to say (just from hanging arournd with you folks) that you would NOT believe the number of titles that I have been able to "X" off of my "Wanna See" list and have since added many of them over onto my "Favorites" list, ha. But doggone it.. ha. JUST when I think I am getting ahead and my Wanna See's start to "dwindle" down to a comfortable size..ha. THEN you folks come along w/ your LISTS and I have to start all over again. ha. OH what WONDERFUL dilema to have, for sure, ha. PS: Chris.. since yours are in ABC order.. I willl ask.. (maybe you have posted this already and I just did not see it) Which are your top 5 or so favorites??

And I love the music from most all of them Oh yeah.. nearly all of them are just terrific (though I can't say for sure about the more recent Bond themes since I have not seen any of the newer movies) I think Live and Let Die is probably my fave Bond song.. and it is probably my fave Bond movie as well... but truthfully..I can't tell you why.. ha. I think I may have seen it a few more times than some of the others because it used to get played on TV a lot. But it MIGHT be more because of the song than anything else. ha. (And truthfully.. there may be a different Bond movie that I like better but just can't remember it. It has been SO many years since I saw any of them, I may have forgotten one). I think though (as much as it pains me to admit it, ha) I am more of a "Roger Moore" Bond gal I guess.. ha. (though I DO like a lot of the Connery ones too) I much prefer Connery as an actor, but I think I lean more towards Moore as Bond because I guess I just watched MOST of his first as a teenager (because that is what they showed more of on TV and at the movie theaters back then). And so I saw the Connery ones much later on.. but by then I already had a different mental image of James Bond pretty much locked into my mind and it just sort of stuck there, I guess. ha. OH.. and getting back to the music.. I mentioned that LALD is my fave theme.. and I think that is true.. because I DO believe I like it best of all... except for maybe.. the actual BOND THEME itself.(Oh my golly! I LOVE that guitar.. and those blaring horns. ha.) Whoa baby.

I thought he was a favorite of yours! Of course he is.. in some sort of WHACKED out topsy turvey alternative UNIVERSE or something. Ha. You should come up with your 20 favorite westerns. And I don't care if it's all Wayne and Ford Oh brother.. I am LOUSY at list making (as you well know) but truly..ha. The top 7 or 8 on the list I already posted are pretty close to being in the right order. I'll think about it.. tomorrow..ha. Because.. afterall... You think I'd like it? Hmmmmmmmmm... that's a good tease. It's not that long, so I should be able to watch it this week. OH great.. ha.. now you are going to hate it for SURE (no.. I don't really think that) Truly.. I will be surprised if you don't at least like it somewhat. I think it has a good portion of "dark" and "grit" and "cynicism" mixed with some other REALLY powerful (yet more "postive") themes as well. (and I would say more but don't want to give it away) So I will look forward to hearing your thoughts. I do not know for SURE how far back you have to go to find the chat we had on it.. but as I recall it was sometime this past spring maybe.. and I think most of the folks who watched found it very favorable. (but that is NOT always an indicator of whether someone else will like it either, ha. So you will have to watch for yourself and then let me know) I love Forty Guns Blah.. ha. (though I guess I SHOULD be honest... ha. I only tried watching this movie one time..and fell asleep.. but I remember thinking (about the parts I DID watch) that it was NOT my cup 'o tea. ha. Maybe to be FAIR, I should re-check it out of the library sometime and give it another chance.. nah... (ha) I will just wait until it shows on TCM again and try to give it another chance.. maybe.... PS: Miss G: Mmmmmm...you're making me hungry! It sounds absolutely delicious. Especially if ribs are on the menu. I love ribs and a good, home-made hamburger Ribs and burgers are DEFINITELY on the menu. ha. (and chicken too, ha) And PS: I like my BBQ sauce sweet and tangy.. (but not TOO sweet) But we can have a variety sampler (in case you or Jackie have a different opinion on that) ha. SO are you going to post the DVD-R list TOO??? I bet that one IS a mile long, ha.I imagine it is really nice to be able to just push a button (or something like that) and make those recordings. That would be a dream come true for me. ha. (my old vcr is NOT as good a recorder as I would like for it to be.. and I am out of NEW VHS tapes..and am down to recording OVER and over the old ones. ha. (Someday I will step into the 21st century and get myself one of those fancy DVD recorder doo-dads, ha. But TODAY is not that day, ha)

May I just say WOWSA!! ha. Some great images here, little lady. I ESPECIALLY like the black and white group pic from Red River. Oh.. ha.. and of course the one w/ Frank Grimes in the background..ha. That WAS from the last necktie party.. and HA! And PS: it is a "rope" celebration w/ that Hang Em High poster in there too. ha. You are a rope slingin' gal after my own heart! ha.

Yeehaw, Miss G!! If I am reading your list right.. the "bold" numbers you have listed out to the side indicate your #1-10 favorites.. and I DID guess right, ha. I was pretty sure you had TMWSLV in that #1 spot. You have a great collection, kid. I bet it was a lot of work getting all those titles. I see a LOT of my "dream" films on there, ha. Once you are up and ready to go.. be sure to bring them on down when you come for the BBQ.. ha. German Potato salad AND some good old Western flicks.. now THAT will be a good time for SURE! ha. (oh golly... wouldn't it be fun if we really COULD have a "film fest" BBQ?? ha.. It has been WAY so very long since I got to sit down and and enjoy some really good westerns.. Oh.. AND almost as long since I had some good BBQ too.. (and GOLLY.. I even LIVE in one of the BIG "BBQ" regions of the country too.. so how sad is THAT?? ha) Oh boy.. do I ever sound pathetic, ha. :-) Oh..and by the way.. the big suprise for me on your list was your #5 choice (The Far Country) I did not realize that one was so high "up there" in your esteem. It is a great film though, so I should not be SO suprised. (oh golly.. that Walter Brennan.. sniff, sob) ha.

AAGGGH. Grey Guy... what are you trying to do?? Give me NIGHTMARES?? Posting that pic of UGH.. that awful FRANK guy. ha. Great.. NOW I am going to have to break out the PEPTO for sure just so I can fall asleep.. ICK! I'm the one with the varied tastes around here, that's how! My list isn't just Ford and Wayne! That's true. You do have quite the "variety" and you are DEFINITLY not predictable.. except in how UNpredictable some of your choices are. ha. I am definitely more set in my ways..ha. I DO like my Duke and Ford, ha. But I also like a LOT of non-Fordie/non-Duke Westerns though my list does not reflect that as much.. (especially if you look at the top 12 or so) because I was only making a list of movies that I actually own... and I do tend to try and get my faves (if I am going to go out and buy a movie) But I am sure my list WOULD look different.. somewhere after maybe.. say.. #8 or 9 if I were making a list STRICTLY of favorites ( both those I own.. and those I only dream of, ha) No, I didn't watch that one. I now have it on DVD, though Well now THERE is your next assignment, mister. (sometime when you get the chance) Do not let that one get lost in your "dust laden" mountainous pile of unwatched movies. (HA!) It is really a great film.. I am SO glad Jackie brought it to our attention on the message board here. And I remember thinking that it would be one you would really like (but then again, I STINK at "pegging" you sometimes, so WHO knows, ha. You are MUCH better at guessing movies that I will like.. but as we have already established.. ha.... I am MUCH more set in my ways than you, ha) my top twenty That is some list, sir. I am really impressed at how WELL you have taken to the Western world considering you have said that it was NEVER something you were interested in until the last several years.. So ok.. ha. I guess you will ALWAY have a special place in your heart for Once Upon a Time in the Pass the Pepto PLEASE.. ha... But.... 10. Forty Guns 11. The Searchers 19. The Ox-Bow Incident #10.... ahead of 11 AND 19?? REALLY??????????????????????????? Oh good gravy.. ha. What, oh WHAT are we going to do w/ you??????? And PS... I can KID you about all this because I KNOW you know I am kidding... ha. One thing I will ALWAYS say when it comes to picking favorites is that EVERYBODY has a right to their own choices. ha. GOOD gravy.. movies are NOTHING if not subjective and I LOVE to watch and see how many different (but also the same) choices often turn up when the lists start getting put together. But in the meantime, ha, having said all that, it will NOT stop me from giving you grief (becase what would be the fun in THAT???) HA!

I really dislike watching FORT APACHE. It's one of those great films that I just can't stand watching much - because Fonda's such a great jerk Ollie, Ollie, Ollie.. what ARE we going to do with you?? ha. Don't MAKE me have to break out my frozen rope now. I mean.. you MAY have your little dolls w/ all those pins... but I have an entire ARSENAL as you may know.. and so far I have given you the benefit of the doubt because I can't always tell when you are serious and when you are being a smartie.. HA! But buddy.. pal... friend o' mine.... you JUST can't go throwing those sorts of phrases (like how you "dislike watching Fort Apache") around that way.. even in jest.. ha. The GREY Guy will seize on them and then before you know it.... World War III. Oh golly.. just thinking about it... I'd better go check my rope supplies and sharpen my hat pin (oh.. and loosen the chain on my giant octopus too) just to be on the safe side.) Ha. Oh..and PS: I TOTALLY agree w/ you about Fonda's Thursday.. ha. NOBODY ought to be THAT good at playing someone THAT awful. ha. Edited by: rohanaka on Oct 9, 2010 8:55 PM

Ah ha.. True Grit..ha. Thanks Ms Cutter.. that is one that should also be high up on the "dream list" of movies I LOVE but only wish I owned... oh yea.. and High Noon too) sigh. (See Miss Maven.. I did say I could go on and on and on... ) ha.

Oh golly, Miss Maven, I pale in comparison to many collectors on this board... I have such a puny list, ha. In answer to your question... if I could own my "dream list" ha.. let's see.. I'd START by wishing for a copy of Shepherd of the Hills.. OH my golly.. I have only seen the END of this movie.. and never seen it all the way through. But I would also love to get my hands on a copy of several others.. I do not have Red River, My Darling Clementine, The OxBow Incident, How the West Was Won, or The Big Country (just to name a few) and those are all films that I have seen and enjoyed very much. (I COULD go on and on...and ON, by the way, ha.) I could also stand a copy of some of the early Ford Westerns (that I have yet to see) I am SO very glad to have 3 Bad Men, but I know there are a few others.. namely The Iron Horse that I would like to get. And while I am on Ford.. I wouldn't mind getting BETTER copies of the three Cavalry movies (Ft Apache, Rio Grande and SWAYR) those are ones I only have on VHS and the tapes are pretty bad.. I taped all three of them on USED old worn out vhs tapes, ha, so the sound is poor and the picture is jumpy from time to time. (But HEY.. at least I have them! ha) I need to just get OVER my "technophobia" and give in to the whole temptation of online ordering. ha. I am SURE that would open up a whole new WORLD of possibilities for me. But THEN I'd be bankrupt. ha. (I would likely be like a kid in a candy store, ha) Oh well.. if we always had EVERYTHING we ever wanted.. wouldn't life be boring??? It's nice to have a dream now and then. :-) (Oh.. and by the way, I also only dream about a full time housekeeper... especially on days like TODAY!! But since THAT is not going to happen I better get a move on.. the kitchen floor is calling my name! ha) Edited by: rohanaka on Oct 9, 2010 1:31 PM

The Quiet Man (1952) Denmark Talk about eye popping use of color!! Woo hoo!