rohanaka
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Posts posted by rohanaka
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*And the Wuthering Spoilage Resumes:*
Hello there little missy...
Thank you. I remember when that came out. I never saw it, because I'm not a fan of Juliette Binoche. I find her cold, not passionate at all like Catherine. And Ralph Fiennes always looked to me more like Edgar than Heathcliffe
I don't know.. ha.. Fiennes looks pretty " dark" in this film. VERY grim, in fact. But you are right.. he is not "hulking". But he does a good job w/ the bitterness angle.. Though in some ways he takes it TOO far. I bet you are right.. Neeson would likely have done a very good job for the role. As for Binoche.. I am not sure I really recall her performance as well as I do his in this version.. it has been a really long time.
I can imagine. I bet they made him a mental case or a navel gazing, social misfit, ha
Think more "mental case" ha. He was nearly pathological. (strike the "nearly")
Little Miss Butterscotchie says: It was a little more toward the reality check side, but I didn?t get as emotional in this remake, because it didn?t seem as sincere as the original. I mean, us girls have to cry to Wuthering Heights, it?s just a moral imperative. Heehee! Larry Olivier plays a more sophisticated Heathcliffe and this remake made his character out to be a more violent person
That is a PERFECT way to contrast the two films.. You do get more sympathy going for Olivier's Heathcliff... and if memory serves.. even for Ms. Oberon's Cathy as well. The two more modern actors just play it very harsh.
Again.. I think there were aspects of this version that I like MORE than the '39 one.. but not on the whole. Overall.. I think the 1939 film gives you more of a feeling for the "romance" so in that regard it is more enjoyable..
Heathcliff and Cathy still come off "horrid" toward one another.. but it is not so completely grim (I keep using that word.. but it is the right one) and so wholly unlikeable as I am remembering the characters in the newer version to be. (and again.. THAT is the one I saw first.. so that is likely why I have always held such a grudge for those two.. ha.)
Oh, that doesn't sound right. I don't remember a daughter in the book, though I could be wrong. I like that the '39 version really keeps the focus on the attraction and antagonism between the lovers.
I went in and looked at that youtube (just to refresh my memory) and watched all of part one.. and the tail end of the last one (to see the beginning and the end) I was wrong about how much focus there is on the daughter (I THINK she is Cathy's daughter.. Her name is Cathy too.. and she is more or less made to marry Heathcliff's son (or the other way around) and then the son dies.. etc)
I really ought to watch the '92 one again to say for sure.. but I really do remember her as Cathy's daughter.. and I think Binoche played both roles.. (the younger Cathy is blonde.. like Linton) Anway.. it is SOMEONE living under Heathcliff's roof (after Cathy is gone) and when Heathcliff dies she is finally free to be w/ someone (maybe a hired hand) that she has fallen in love with. Anyway.. that is only a brief mention at the end (instead of being played up more like I thought) and then it goes on to Heathcliff and Cathy.. together at last (as it should be) for the final ending.
The most poignant scene to me is when he overhears Cathy and the housekeeper (Flora Robson) talking about Hindley and then Cathy's cruel remarks about Heathcliffe's dirty, surly behavior. He is so wounded, but we don't see him leave, we follow Cathy's conversation which turns to her love for Heatchliffe and the famous line she speaks, "I am Heathcliffe" (which I believe is from the book) only when the camera cuts away to where Heathcliffe was standing, we see he is gone. He never hears her words of love, only her condemnation and it drives him away. I felt dreadful for him.
That is a gut wrencher for sure. I do remember how strong that moment is... when we hear the words.. but HE does not.
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I do. It surprised me too
And then the one guy says he will finish the letter to his kid. Sniff.. Sob.. OH don't get me started. :-)
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Ok.. HERE is the version I saw first... it came out (I think) in 1992.. but I know it has not been THAT long since I saw it because I know I watched it after the QT and I got married.. because I remember where I LIVED when I was watching.. ha.. Maybe it was not "made for TV" but I just saw it when it aired on tv a few years after it came out (maybe?) Or maybe I rented it.. GOLLY I don't know. ha. But I know this is the one I saw because I remember the whole Juliette Binoche and Ralph Fiennes thing... they were the leads. (now that I have seen the poster for it in my google search, ha)
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The HEIGHTS of Wuthering Spoilage:
How would you say it compares? Is it more "realistic" in tone, maybe?
It has been at least 10 or 12 years (maybe more) since I saw it.. but I would have to say that is is much darker. In some ways I remember liking it more than the 1939 version.. but not on the whole. I wish I could remember more for sure when I saw it.. but I know it was within the last 15 years anyway.
I despised Hindley the way I despised the husband of Maureen O'Sullivan in
The Tall T. You'll see what I mean. he got absolutely what he deserved
Hindley!! That's it. ha. Thank you for the reminder.. As for Maureen's husband.. ha. I will have to watch out for him when my copy of The Tall T comes in. I just LOVE to hate a good bad guy! :-)
oh poor Isabella (Geraldine Fitzgerald)! Hers is just as tragic...even MORE
tragic an outcome because she was not selfish as the other two were...she truly
loved Heathcliffe and he treated and used her abominably. That to me was his
worst, worst act
That's it exactly. She was totally a victim of their "fall out" so to speak.
As for the book, I've read it twice but not in recent years. All I remember is that
it was one of the grimmest, most depressing stories I ever read. Shocking, too,
from a supposedly "sheltered" daughter of a country parson.
THAT is how I remembering the other version I saw.. VERY dark...and grim.. that is the right word.
The ending is more about Cathy's daughter too.. and her "love interest" finally being free to get together. (rather than focusing on Heathcliff and Cathy.. together at last..ha) (I think the housekeeper is the narrator in this version.. I don't remember that being the case in the '39 version.. but I might be wrong) That is what I am remembering, anyway.
I, alas, don't even have it recorded and it is sadly still not on DVD which is surprising since it's considered one of "the" classics of all time.
Well guess what. ha.. YOU should be a TCM programmer.. ha. I just went in and looked it up and it IS part of the "Acts of Revenge" theme this month.. it is on the VERY last night (Sept 30) at 8PM. Maybe you can get it recorded! :-)
One reason the '39 version may always be my favorite is the music...the love theme
is one of the most beautiful in classic cinema
I am not recalling that but I will listen for it when I watch again. (I am thinking my copy will be in from the library in the next few days, I hope)
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was very into the end because I did not expect it to end that way at all. I was pulling for Ralls to get the gold. I couldn't believe he didn't make it. John Wayne? This was the FIRST Wayne film I've seen where he was killed. I was shocked. And, please, don't anyone tell me other Wayne films where he is killed!
Ha.. OK.. I won't tell you... but I WILL tell you there is one.. where I just about fell out of my CHAIR it was so shocking.. you think the movie is over.. and everyone is feeling pretty good..and it is the end..and then WHAMMO!!!! (I bet at least Chris knows which one I am talking about) OH I hate the end of that movie SO much!!
PS: Miss G:
+So,do you think Ralls was grabbing the gold out of greed or to prove he
could do it or to try and "beat" the Red Witch? I'm not sure. I found it hard
to believe he'd sink back into greediness. Could he have had a death wish+
I think it was A) he wanted to "beat" the Witch.. and maybe C) he MIGHT have had a death wish..But really.. I am not so sure about the whole "death wish" thing. I really think he just wanted a cut of the money so he could make a new start. I am not sure. I also think he went down there so no one else had to.. he knew it was too dangerous... and I think he did not want a "family man" to die for his misdeed.. (in terms of.. it was HIS fault the gold was down there to begin with.. so he was going to go get it) I don't really think it was about him getting rich off of it.. but I do think it is possible he saw his share of it as a way to "retire".
Edited by: rohanaka on Sep 6, 2010 11:35 PM
(and then edited again.. because I made a mistake on my "duke" movie.. they were not "going home".. yet.. gotta get my facts straight, Grey Dude, even if I CAN'T tell you what movie I am talking about, ha)
Edited by: rohanaka on Sep 7, 2010 1:22 AM
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Super MEGA Wuthering Heights Spoilage:
I had no idea you felt this way about Wuthering Heights, Ro. I can see why
you'd find them hard to like, especially Cathy. Heathcliffe I think is easier to comprehend,
for he is, in his way, a very "pure" individual
You know.. I never thought of him that way.. but I can see how you are describing him.
I actually saw the "classic" movie for the first time AFTER I saw a made for TV one (I think it might have been on TNT maybe (??) or possibly another cable network.. that re-made it back in the late 90's) And OH me.. It is a bit different (in terms of intensity) from the one w/ Olivier and Oberon.. So I have to confess that MAY have been a part of what has shaped my mindset for those two characters all this time.. but in truth.. I LIKELY should read the book if I want to really get a feel for their true nature...
He lives only in his own ideas, or world,
and that world is Catherine and their kingdom is Pennistone Crag (not sure I'm spelling
that right, I don't have the book on hand). Without Catherine, he is lost. Even his quest
for revenge (this movie should have been included in TCM's "REvenge" theme this month!)
is tied to her.
She truly was the motivating force for his every thought (both good and evil) but the evil was also shaped by his "mis"treatment from the jealous brother (what was his name.. I am not remembering) I think the made for TV version REALLY played up Heathcliff's absolute HATRED for him and for his new wife too... (boy don't you just feel the MOST sorry for her in a way??) and he came off a LOT (a LOT) crueler in that TV movie than he does w/ Olivier. Again.. I do not know how he compares w/ the Heathcliff in the book.. but OH me.. he was awful.
And oh, my, one of my favorite scenes in all movies is when they open the door at Edgar and Catherine's house to see Heathcliffe standing there in all his new "glory", ha. He is SO much
more impressive than Edgar ever THOUGHT of being. But what a waste, why did evil impulses
have to make him conquer the world instead of love? So I do feel Catherine was justified, a little,
in being frustrated with him. But oh, goodness, the raging, nagging AGONY she felt when he came back, came back as the "king" she always commanded him to be. I love it! My kind of "tortured love" story!!
I think "evil impulse" is the right way to say it. And to me the most tragic thing of all is how they LOVE each other so much they begin to hate each other for it.. oh me.. it is a powerful concept. (in the TV version I saw.. Once she is gone.. he is so consumed by grief over her that he even digs her up.. just to hold her in his arms again! YIKES!! ha.. is THAT in the book???) Anyway.. I guess that is why I am looking forward to watching this again because I DO want to view it once more to see if I still am holding on to my pre-conceived disgust with the two of them that I know likely came from that first movie I watched.
Golly.. first impressions really are everything.. ha
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I'm afraid it's going to sink your estimation of women even further and I can already hear you calling me a "Cathy".
Ha.. let's leave the light on for him.. (in the window) and see what he gets... HA!!!!
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I can't believe the Duke meets up with not one but two octopi
I know.. who'da thunk it?? ha. Pretty slim odds for a guy who made most of his "movie-making" money on the back of a HORSE!!
It really took me by surprise.. but I think I was still a TEENAGER (or at the very least in my EARLY early 20's) when I saw it.. so I guess I am just getting forgetful in my old age. ha. We pretty much pick up where everyone else picks up with Ralls. He was a tough pleasure-seeker who ended up falling for a lass and getting his heart broken. Do we need to know more than this? He's "Rhett Butler."
Hmmmm I don't know if I can totally get that picture in my head for him.. he was his "own" man for sure and can maybe see some comparison to Rhett in that I imagine he did not intend in any way to fall in love with Angelique.. (before he met her, he was likely a "love 'em and leave 'em" kind of guy) But although he might have been a "victim" of love (sort of).. I don't think she really intended to break his heart by going w/ Sydney (out of spite) I think she more or less "fell into it" by circumstances.
And I think Ralls blamed himself for losing her more than he blamed her. If he had stuck around (instead of running off) after the "fire" incident.. I think she'd have gotten over the shock of it all and likely would not have been such easy prey for Sydney to marry. (but I might need to rewatch it again. ha. Only a day or so and already the details are getting fuzzy.. ha Did I mention I am getting forgetful in my old age??)
I find the end to be very poetic
It was at that. Though (here I go again w/ my whining...ha) I wish there maybe had been a bit more "drama" to it. For me it was not very "suspenseful". Maybe I am used to more "nail biting" tension from some of his other action movies.. ha. Anyway.. I think it was very "mystical" in a way with the sunset and the images of them sailing off to sea at the end. Poetic is a good word.
Sydney says:
Ralls lives. He makes every day of living a challenge. Beside him, you're all decadent, dead
That was a GREAT line... and VERY telling. Up to that point you REALLY dont' know for sure whether he just TOTALLY hates Ralls or not.. but you truly do see the admiration for him (or at least his spirit) in that line.. EVERY man there.. including himself.. gets measured by Ralls.. and comes up lacking. And you really see the "love/hate/love/hate/love" thing going on for him.
PS: Miss G.. I loved that moment w/ Rosen and the girl (where Ralls tells Rosen not to lose her) It WAS a very telling and emotional moment.. and I would have liked to have seen MORE of those "emotions" coming out in him a bit... at the risk of whining about it all again.. HA. :-)
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Oh.. for pity's sake...
Ok.. get ready for a HUGE laugh at my expense. ha. Get ready for TRUE Confessions of the Hopelessly Doofy. (I told some one the other day that I was such a doofus that way back in my "youth" ha.. I had planned to make it my college major.. and when I got there they said I was TOO doofy and made me "DEAN OF DOOFINESS STUDIES" instead. ha.. sad but TRUE!! (ok.. I am making that up.. but I AM the reigning queen of natural born doofuses.. or is it dooffusi??)
Anyway..... Remember how I told you that I really could nor remember much about Wake of the Red Witch and how it had been a LONG LONG time since I saw it (decades maybe) and that all I could recall was that John Wayne croaked in it.. and there was an Octopus??????????
After reading Miss G and mrsl's posts about Reap the Wild Wind.... THAT is the movie I saw a LONG LONG TIME AGO!! ha. And I feel so much better.. ha... because all the way through WOTRW I kept thinking.. gee.. I really don't remember THAT.. and Gee.. how could I have forgotten THAT??? ha. But when I went into the TCM database and read the synopsis of RTWW.. THAT is the movie I am remembering!! ha.
(did I mention I was doofy??????)
So gosh.. this is a GOOD thing that we have YOU to thank for bringing WOTRW into the limelight for me, Mr. Grey. Otherwise.. I'd have gone on confusing the two movies FOREVER. (and now I have to go see if I can find a copy of RTWW and watch it for comparisons.. .ha Oh boy.. I did mention my "doofiness", didn't I?????? Golly I am getting old.. ha.
Ok.. so now on to the rumbling.. I mean rambling.. ha.
SPOILER OF THE RED WITCH to follow:
Well, since you stuck the knife in my heart
Knife?? What knife.. to quote YOU.. ha.. I am innocent. And besides, I only use HATPINS!
I decided to watch the film again, today. And, thanks to you, I ended up liking it more. I actually cried a little. Oh, my
Oh my indeed. Wowsa.. I love how you go all out, Grey Guy. You really sink your teeth into things.. and THAT sir, is what makes discussing these films so much fun. I think it is good for both of us that you did some investigating too because some of your post made me remember another thing I wanted to talk about to.. (more on that in a moment) And PS: I LOVE the use of the screencaps and dialogue.. you really have done a terrifc job of bringout out some interesting (and very moving) aspects of Ralls and the story too.
I'm now convinced the film is about this:
You do have a point (but it helps me make my own point as well) He does have a "past" and everyone seems to know all about him and what it is that led him to where he ended up (except us)
It's about men and their drives and ambitions. They are often selfish and quite reckless. The one thing that usually slows them down or brings them to a halt is a woman. The right woman.
That is a great point of view to hang this whole story on. I agree. It goes deeper than that in some ways.. but it is a good frame work to more or less describe the story as a whole.
Now, in Wake of the Red Witch, "she" refers to Angelique (Gail Russell) and the sea.
Maybe.. but honestly, I thought Paul Fix was saying "she" and meaning the boat. Fix said something earlier about how The Red Witch was after him. I need to watch it again. Either way though.. YOU are right.. Angelique did get him... and so did the sea. (and I won't give out any HUGE Wuthering HEIGHTS spoiler.. but there is a big comparison that way too.. only not w/ the sea... I have likely said too much already)
I also felt the end was very similar to The Ghost and Mrs. Muir. It's the "male" version.
Ha.. you might be right.. it is the "guys" version.. ha. I don't think it would have been as "macho' for John Wayne to have to wait until he was an old man and die in his sleep for them to finally be together. ha.
You mentioned wanting to know more about Ralls (John Wayne), why he is how he is. Ironically, you happen to be the opposite of Angelique.
True.. she wanted to just love him for who he was when he was with HER and did not hold him to any sort of standard beyond that.. and although I liked his character.. flaws and all, and I wanted to love him.. I also wanted to know MORE about who he was.. inquiring minds wanna know. :-)
There are some very beautiful words and feelings exchanged between Ralls and Angelique throughout the film. I didn't take them all in with my first viewing. This time, they impacted me
She really was a beautiful woman.. inside and out.. I think her character was meant to be "pure".. especially of heart... and Gail did a great job w/ that aspect of her for sure.
Then we get to the deeper meaning of the film:
Man sails around the world, looking for his treasure. Is it on the map?
And this brings me back to what I wanted to say earlier but forgot.. thanks for the reminder.. he DID seem to have a repentant "moment' where all his past washed away and he wanted to be a new man.. if only to be happy with her.. but alas.. it was not meant to be... (at least for the moment anyway)
PS: Miss G: More like Chicken of the Sea! (It is chicken, right?)
Ha. you do not strike me as being a Tuna.. but if you are saying you are a "chicken" of the sea.. ha.. I am with you, my sister. I swim like a ROCK!!
Ah, sweet romance!! I can't wait for the Wuthering Heights rumble!
I am looking forward to it for sure.. maybe you all can help me finally come to terms w/ WHY I love it so much and yet hate the characters all at the same time, ha.
He was pretty transparent. It helped that all the men seemed to suffer from
the same fit of envy, except Rosen.
And Paul Fix too. ha. (Funny that the Grey Guy should mention To Have and Have Not earlier.. ha. He was very "Walter Brennanish" in this one.. did someone already say that??)
Ray Milland and Susan Hayward are in it, along with Paulette Goddard and a giant squid (or octopus)
HA... well.. did you see what I wrote at the beginning of this post.. ha.. appearantly I HAVE seen this film.. duh!! (did I mention I was a doofus??)
Edited by: rohanaka on Sep 6, 2010 8:16 PM
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hope you both get to see it one day, it's a handsome looking film (but I still think Trail of the Lonesome Pine has it beat)
THANK you, little lady.. for the reminder on that one. I saw you mention it a while back and FORGOT to check on it.
I will try to see if I can find it when I go to look for Canyon Passage... and that will likely be when I go to pick up my copy of The Tall T from the library as soon as it comes in.. OH golly.. ha.. I am thinking I need a score card.. ha. Hope I can find CP and TOTLP... but if not.. hope you folks will chat them up anyway..
And re: the Tall T... should be a few more days, but maybe by this time next week at the latest. Go ahead and start whenever you folks have a mind to and I will try to catch up.
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just think it's his nature. It's Wayne's To Have and Have Not.
Hey.. maybe he was bit by.. a DEAD BEE!!! (and that was what made him so angry!!)
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Hello Goddess of the Sea!!!
I thought maybe I was stretching things a bit, but I'm
glad to know someone else saw the similarities.
Oh yeah.. it was very much there. I even thought Gail looke a bit "Cathy-ish) and sounded that way too.. about all that "now we can be together forever" stuff.
Sydney was not the type to
resist a challenge.
I thought he was the best "explained" character of them all. You really got a sense for how AWFUL he was.. and yet.. he DID have his moments where he was pulling for the Duke to win out. I at least understood him (in terms of who he was) better than I did the others. (somewhat)
I think it may be better than Reap the Wild Wind,
I need to look that one up because I am familiar w/ the title but it is not ringing any bells for me w/ the story.
And if nothing else, it inspired
you to add a new "weapon" to your arsenal!
Oh yeah.. and I am putting a RUSH order on that thing too... especially if we are going to go down the road to Wuthering Height. ha. Somehow, I KNOW it will come in handy!!
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Oh, for goodness sake, Quiet Gal! You and your always wanting more!
Ha.. THIS from the guy who once spent days (no.. it was literally WEEKS I think) going round and round (and ROUND) with me over The Oxbow Incident. Of COURSE I want MORE. I like to know what it is that makes someone THAT interesting (as Rall's character) TICK!
And then you let McLintock! just walk right on by!
Oh good gravy, Grey Dude.. we are talking apples and ORANGES!! McLintock was a "fun" comedy about a BIG man with a BOLD personality taking on his " NOT-so" prim and proper" hot headed wife (among other things) It was a "COMEDY" for crying out loud..ha. I do not need to KNOW what makes THEM the way they were to enjoy it.
Oh..and PS: regarding my love for "getting to know" my characters... there WAS a lot more detail about who McLintock and Katherine were and their background too than what was given to us about RALLS and Angelique.. by the way..
Golly, talk about apples and oranges.. GW was an OPEN BOOK. He even tells that whole story to his daughter about how it was when he and Katherine were first starting out.. so put THAT in your "apple basket' and smoke it, Mister "I hate all things McLintock" HA!!
Were you looking for one specific event in his childhood or life that made him who he was? "Back when he was ten, all the other kids teased him so he swore he'd get revenge on everyone."
Now you are just being smart mouthed, ha. But MAYBE. That MIGHT have been it. Who KNOWS??? And that's the point.
I am thinking he got knocked down a LOT in life and it made him mad.. and he was not a good "mad" guy. Some people handle anger better than others. Anyway.. nobody ends up THAT dark of a person w/out SOME sort of reason or background.. I just wanted to get a glimpse, of the "inner" mindset for him, I guess.
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Chalk one up for the biggest doofus here , Ro!
Oh, my poor little fellow "doofus". ha. You have been hanging around ME too long and now I am starting to "infect" you w/ my "doofy" ways. ha. Maybe we can both get lucky enough to find a copy of this movie soon so we can watch too. Hang in there, kid. Doofy is only occasionally "debilitating" but so far does not seem to be "terminal" ha.
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Hellooooooooo Grey Guy!
Well I got to watch WOTRW again this weekend and I really enjoyed it. I can honestly see WHAT it is you like about this film and the Duke?s character and why. But to be truthful, if I had ONE complaint about this movie, it would the opposite of this statement by you:
I do believe it's the most complete of all the characters I have seen of John Wayne's. He gives you everything in this one
Now before it looks like I am turning on my beloved Duke, let me get more specific and try to explain what I mean by that.
I thought HE did a good job bringing out all the MANY facets of Rall?s character (because WOW there was a LOT to bring out w/ him) but the STORY let him down. It just did not develop well enough for me to get that ?complete? feeling about who he really was and WHY he was the way he was. And for that I have to say it left me a bit disappointed.
I honestly had SO little recollection of this movie (because I was remembering only snatches of images about it before I watched it again this weekend) so I do not know if it made any sort of impression on me before. But this time around I really felt like that was just so much missing from the story line that it really left me just a bit unhappy in the way it all played out.
Now as for the Duke, OH me! Was he ever GREY GREY GREY!! Ha. I can absolutely see why it was you liked him so well. At one moment he was menacing.. and even LIFE threatening.. and then he could be just so calm and fun loving.. and even very gentle. I think he was a decent guy who had been dumped on a LOT by circumstances in life.. and by the hard life he had chosen to lead (at sea) and also by some REALLY bad choices on his part.. and it more or less just made him into this fractured and really two-sided person. The good in him was VERY good.. but OH that dark side. WOW. Did he ever have one. It was an interesting character.. but gee.. I just wanted to know WHY he was the way he was.. and the story NEVER really gets to that level of understanding for him. It could have just been so much better. (I wonder if the book is more detailed or not?)
Miss Goddess says:
What caught my attention most this time was another similarity to a film, this time
to Wuthering Heights. There are a couple of shots that seem to be "stolen"
right from Wyler's masterpiece, and the character of Captain Ralls (John Wayne)
is to me, very "Heathcliffe". Brooding, masterful, and with a thirst to put down
those who wronged him and destroyed his love. But Ralls is more genial, and
more apt to blame himself for his tragedies, than Heathcliffe was. As crazy as
it sounds, John Wayne actually plays a more introspective character
than Olivier did. Olivier is all emotion, anger and brute strength. Ralls is intellect,
humor as well as darker forces not under his control.
I absolutely saw this when I watched this time (it was SO long ago, I don't know if I had even seen Wuthering Heights way back when I watched this movie the first time) The similarity is almost blatant... they don't even really try to hide it... (Except that Angelique" is like the "Anti-Cathy" ha.) I wonder if the author just sort of had that in mind when it was written.. or if it was how it played out when it got made into a movie. Either way.. the comparison there cannot be ignored.
I see what an interesting and complex man
Sydney was. He didn't just hate Captain Ralls, he actually wanted to BE Captain
Ralls and knew he didn't have what it took. He could become as rich and powerful
as he was and still didn't have that freedom, that independence and inner resourcefulness
Ralls possessed. Sydney knew that, and it was like something meaningful went out
of his life when Ralls died. His expression when he realized Ralls was gone, was
great. You expect the whole time he hates Ralls so much he'll try to kill him himself,
but no, he wants him to live because competing with him is what gives him excitement
and justification.
There was very much a "hate/love/hate/love" thing going on with him for Ralls. I think in the beginning he just wanted to use him (for what he could get out of him) and then as he saw his personality and his inner strength and determination.. he began to envy, resent, and secretly admire him for it all at the same time. It was almost like a "cat and mouse" thing with him... he would toy with him.. and you'd think at any moment he was going to pounce and just try to devour him.. but at the same time.. the cat wanted to keep the mouse as a pet (sometimes for "entertainment" of amusement.. and sometimes because he really (secretly) liked him and admired his spirit. Ralls almost became his "reason" for being in a way.
The Grey Guy says:
Gail seemed quiet and distant in the film, on the sad side
That was another thing I wish had been better about the film. Her character was SO "undone". And OH she was just so beautiful and tragic.. there could have been a LOT she could have brought out about who RALLS was if both their characters had had more "layers" showing in this story.
One of the things I think that WOTRW had working against it was the whole "flashback" thing. I think this is one example of a story that would have been MUCH stronger if it had been told in "real time" instead of all the flashing back and forth on multiple levels by multiple characters.
In fact.. if you think of it.. the entire MOVIE was just one big flashback as it starts w/ Rosen telling "his" story..but it wasn't even HIS story he was telling. And not to get TOO technical.. because I am NO "expert" writer here.. but I thought that there were way too many issues w/ "perspective" too with all that "flashbacking". So many of the things we were seeing were NOT things that the person telling the story would even have had any knowledge of. (like the private scenes between Angelique and Ralls) at the very least whoever was doing the telling (first Sydney then his neice, etc) would have HAD to be "outside the room" or "hiding in the bushes" to even KNOW what those two said or thought while they were alone.. if the whole "flash back" thing were to be legitimate. (Oh brother.. listen to me.. ha. like I even know what I am talking about.. ha. My 10th grade English teacher would be so proud.. yeah.. right.. HA!)
Anyway... ALL things considered.. and for ALL that "complaining" I have done.. I DID enjoy getting to watch this movie.. and I am REALLY glad YOU (my DEAR grey friend) brought it up for a ramble. It's about time you blew the "dust" off your Duke DVD collection. HA!
We need gentle squids and gentle hair-pulls
Was it a squid or an octopus? I am going to go back and count the legs.. HA! Because I am about to place my phone call to the "Sea Creatures R Us" people so I can order one for my "arsenal" to use against you when you get out of line. Oh to heck w/ checking.. I think I will go with an OCTOPUS. (Eight is better than SIX when it comes time to take up arms for fighting!)
Edited by: rohanaka on Sep 6, 2010 1:51 PM
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still think his Ethan Edwards is one of the most fascinating screen characters I've ever seen
Mad Hat I am with you on that one for sure. I think (if I REALLY had to choose... and PLEASE oh PLEASE don't make me.. ha) He would come down as my most favorite character for Wayne.. but then there is Doniphan. And then there is Rusty. And oh what about.... Ha.. See.. (I TOLD you not to make me choose!!)
I definitely like Wayne as an actor, and as a person for that matter
I grew up liking him.. my dad is a fan of his movies.. and so I guess over time growing up, I more or less just developed my own preference for them as well. I think for me I would have to say I like his "persona" most of all. So very "Bigger than life" but w/ a real HEART underneath. That is what I like about his characters (the ones that REALLY stand out for me) there is a lot of "icon" status attatched to them.. but they are REAL people under the surface and a lot more complex than most folk realize.
As for John Wayne the individual, I am honestly not all that familiar with him that way. I have heard and read a lot of things (some good, some not so good) about who he was in real life, but to be truthful... I really do think he was a decent guy based on most of what I read. Sure he had his flaws, but I think in general he loved his family and loved his country and he loved life and lived it with gusto, so to speak. (Very much like a lot of the characters he played, in that regard)
But again... I am no expert on his life at all so I am sure there is more I might be able to say if I were better read on him.
it is cookout mayhem at my house
YUM!!! You lucky guy!! Dadgum!! I have not had a "cook out" all summer long!! Save a burger and some potato salad (oh.. and a deviled egg) for me!!
PS: THANKS for the heads up on Make Way For Tomorrow. OH me OH MY I heartily recommend it. It is a very thought provoking and extremely moving story. I saw it on youtube a couple of months ago (thanks to Miss G's tip) but boy.. it would be good to get to see it all the way through. (I will have to go stock up on my Kleenex for sure!!)
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Mmmm yummy!! Is it vanilla or red velvet?
Ha.. Little T, it is BOTH!! (the top layer was vanilla and the bottom layer was red velvet!)
Sounds like you had quite a day, youngun!! Glad to hear it! :-)
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You remembered that?
Of COURSE I remembered you, little darlin!!
Hope your day is a VERY happy one!!! Here is a lovely party hat to wear, just for you
You don?t give yourself enough credit young lady?.Mrs. Quiet Man!
Ha.. well.. judging from what the Movieman wrote..HE is the Duke watching champion hands down. ha. (and PS: thanks for saying "YOUNG Lady" ha. I haven't been called THAT in a while. Likely since about a GAZILLION years ago when I was a young'un YOUR age.)
Have a very happy day, kiddo!!
PS: Here's a little cake to help you celebrate too!!
Edited by: rohanaka on Sep 5, 2010 3:03 AM
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116 Wayne movies
WOWSA Mr. Movieman.. you DO have me beat. ha. I am impressed. (I am also impressed by your "list making" ha.. you guys and all your organized lists.. I am more of a Post it note messy list maker.. ha)
I got to looking at the Grey Dude's list.. and then I saw what you posted about how many you had seen.. and well.. I got curious. ha. I sat down in the IMDB website and looked up Wayne's filmography because I honestly have NO idea how many films of his I have seen.. ha. I KNEW I was nowhere near YOUR count.. but I was not sure how many I could list.
Here is what I came up with... not in order of any preference.. but closer to being in order of when they came out I think.. (because I just used the IMDB site as my "guide)
And PS: these do not include the "Lone Star" movies.. (more on them in a moment)
The Big Trail
Stagecoach
Three Faces West
The Shepherd of the Hills (I have only seen about HALF of this movie all the way through)
Flying Tigers (a LONG long time ago)
The Fighting Seabees (also a long time ago)
They Were Expendable
Without Reservations
Angel and the Badman
Fort Apache
Red River
3 Godfathers
Wake of the Red Witch
The Fighting Kentuckian
She Wore a Yellow Ribbon
Sands of Iwo Jima
Rio Grande
Flying Leathernecks
The Quiet Man
Trouble Along the Way
Hondo
Blood Alley
The Searchers
Wings of Eagles
Rio Bravo
The Horse Soldiers
North to Alaska
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
Hatari
How the West Was Won
Donovan?s Reef
McLintock
The Sons of Katie Elder
El Dorado (very long time ago)
The Green Berets
Hellfighters
True Grit
The Undefeated
Chisum (not all the way through.. only about the first half of it)
Rio Lobo (a long time ago on that one too)
Big Jake
The Cowboys
Rooster Cogburn
43??? If I counted right?? ha.. but I might be off a bit.. it is late and I am an old woman.
And PS: Chris, re: the LoneStar movies.. I have also seen about 6 or 7 of those, I think. Maybe even 8 or 10. I am not sure. I have several (around 20 I think?) that came in a very inexpensive DVD pack that I bought at Walmart a couple of years ago and I just never have sat down and watched them all.
None of them really stand out all that much to me (that I recall) but they were fun to watch. I like to think of them as the stepping stones that led to the ?Man who would be Duke? ha. :-)
PS: Grey Dude and Miss G.. more on WOTRW soon.
Edited by: rohanaka on Sep 5, 2010 2:12 AM
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OH Great.. now I see I have to make ANOTHER trip to the library to check if they have Canyon Passage now too!! (oh me oh MY those are some ABSOLUTELY gorgeous screencaps!!) :-) I have never even HEARD of this movie.. but wow.. it LOOKS lovely.. and your posts have me curious.. ha. What WAS it about anyway?? :-)
As you can see, he's being chased by Quiet Gal
Hahahahahahahahahahahaahahhahahahahahahaha and HA! Very funny.
And PS: I would NEVER throw a rope on sweet little Wardy... I reserve my hangings for only the most vile offenders... such as: _______ -
Hiya Grey Dude.. (and Miss G too)
So.. I made it to the library (without breaking my neck!! ha) and picked up my copy of WOTRW... now I just have to find some time tonight or tomorrow (hopefully) to sit down and watch.
You're one of the biggest Wayne fans on the board
Ha.. Oh great... now I have sunk even LOWER (than I likely already am) in the estimation of some on this board (if a certain thread in another forum that will remanin unmentioned is to be believed) But hey.. I can live with that.. and besides... .
I will be getting the Wayne box set with Blood Alley. I'm just waiting for a sale
Lately, I am thinking I am being far outmatched by YOU, Mr. Grey, in terms of my love for all things "Duke". ha. I think you MAY have seen almost as many of his films now as I have.
You have really impressed me by the way you have been willing to keep an open mind about him.. and I am glad you have found some of his movies among your favorites now. (PS: let me know when you get to Blood Alley.. I'd like to hear your thoughts on it... and say hello to your new girlfriend "Baby" for me too!!
) OH.. and PS: I now (finally) have The Tall T on order.. I kept forgetting to check for that one everytime I went in to the library, but your post reminded me.
And also.. after I read some of the other comments between you and Miss G.. guess what else I ordered.. ha.. JUST because I now want to DOUBLE dog dare you to watch it.... Wuthering Heights!!!!!!!
Oh..Grey Dude.. that one will be RIPE for a good old fashioned knock down drag out w/ you for sure... ha. (but who knows.. I can't wait to hear your take on those two "love birds" ha. But I MAY surprise you.. because WH is a story always baffles me.. ha. I truly do love it... a LOT.. but for reasons that are a complete mystery to me because I ABSOLUTELY hate both the male and the female leads.. (OH MY GOLLY.. talk about a couple of self absorbed jerks.. ha.. oh ladies.. I know... what kind of "romance" fan do I think I am I anyway.. ha. Please forgive me..)
But I will save that for another ramble..
OH.. and PS: don't think I MISSED your sideswiping wise crack about me being "mean" to kids... I am never mean... just lovingly "firm"
You know.. much like how I have to be in order to keep the likes of YOU in line.. (A Peacemaker's job is never done... ) PS: Miss Scotchie.. HOWDY there you soon to be Birthday Girl!!
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I do believe it's the most complete of all the characters I have seen of John Wayne's. He gives you everything in this one.
Oh great.. now I have to break my neck to try and make it to the library before they close today... I got my notice in the mail saying my order for a copy of WOTRW was finally in... and here I wasn't planning on stopping by there til early next week.. but now I see all the spoilage going on and think I have to see what all the fuss is about.. (and PS I will wait til later to read the rest of the "spoilage"by the way all I did was sort of skim through what you wrote)
And I sort of skimmed over some of MissG's posts too and golly.. I sure do NOT remember that music in the movie.. but it has been a long long time since I saw it... so now I HAVE to go to the library today because it will be TUESDAY before I get another chance if I don't.. and gee.. this is an emergency. HA.
I mean come on. a Duke movie AND Chopin. Two of my all time favorites together in one film... who could ask for anything more???? :-)
(Ok.. I could. Because I also wouldn't mind a nice BLT w/ a side of potato salad and a large class of iced tea... but THAT and the movie.. that's it... and then I'd be doing alright)
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Oh Mr. "In Hollywood".. you were NOT kidding when you said last week that you were building up to a "big finish". I have thoroughly enjoyed each and every poster but some (especially the last few) are real stand outs. (I love the look on Chaplin's face, ha.. and those last two posters.. OH me.. utterly breathtaking)
and here is a link to view them in a slideshow format
May I just say: Wowsa. That was TERRIFIC!! What a great way to view them all together like that. It makes you just appreaciate them (as artwork) all the more.
Bravo, sir!! :-)
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Hiya Miss G...
I keep thinking about the backstory on BLOOD ALLEY when I watch it. Originally, Robert Mitchum was playing Wayne's role, and I wonder how it would have been with him and Lauren?
Well.. to be honest.. (as much as I love the Duke) I bet Mitchum would have done a good job w/ it. I can definitely see him in that role.. but I think he'd have come off entirely different than the Duke.. a lot more "laid back" maybe. And I imagine that might have made his scenes w/ Lauren work really well (because I did not see as much chemistry between Wayne and Bacall as I thought there could have been) She was just not "firey" enough to believably stand up to his "bigger than life" and bossy nature. ha. She's cooler.. (at least in this movie) and I think THAT would have made a better match w/ Mitchum.. but who am I to say... (I really know next to NOTHING about either her or RM in terms of their real personalities)
And then I am constantly on the look out for Anita Ekberg who is credited but I can never recognize or spot her in the movie! Have you?
I had to look her up (because I knew her name but could not place her) I THINK she might have been the character who (I THINK) was Big Han's wife (??) maybe.. There was a woman (that COULD have been her in makeup) w/ a baby on her back .. and a BIG gun in her hand.. in a lot of the scenes on the boat... and she stayed out on the deck (with both the baby and the gun) to help fight off any of the other boats, soldiers, etc. That MAY have been her, but I can't say for certain.
I also like to compare and contrast Duke and Lauren here in this movie with their later film, The Shootist
That is still one movie I have YET to see all the way through.. not sure why (and I really don't think it is because it was his last.. or that he dies) And I have tried to watch it too. but just seem to always give up on it for some reason.. I don't know what it is.. but SOMEDAY I will sit down and watch it.. (someday...)
Western Movie Rambles
in Westerns
Posted
Wowsa, Mr. Movieman... see what you started bringing this one up for a ramble???? Ha.. this really looks like a great movie.
(PS:Jackie. I LOVED your thoughts in your opening post and I have not even SEEN the movie yet) I am really going to keep all this in mind as I watch... hopefully in the next few days. I am going to check w/ the library Thursday.. (their orders usually come in then) I can see already I have a lot of catching up to do.