rohanaka
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Posts posted by rohanaka
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Do I have to see MEN IN BLACK? I hate that kind of blockbuster, and besides, wasn't that beneath Tommy's talents?
Ha.. no my little darlin' you do not!!
I would NEVER presume to inflict my movie watching preferences on you. ha. (that is why I admitted it "sheepishly" HA.) I freely admit it would not be for EVERYONE"S tastes.. ha. But I did enjoy Tommy Lee Jones' role, I thought he did a good job and was very funny. So as for whether the movie was "beneath his talents".. well.. I guess that would have to be in the eye of the beholder, ha. At one moment he was very "deadpan" and serious... almost like Dragnet... (only w/ space aliens. ha) and then the next moment he would be almost "retro secret agent cool" teaching the new "rookie" the ropes, etc. with all the cool gadgetry and technology. I thought that part was fun too. (and PS: I really liked Rip Torn in this movie too, ha.. and THAT is saying a LOT, because I don't usually have much of an opinion about him in anything, ha)
And PS: just in case you ever DID decide to check it out.. just my own opinion.. the first MIB was enjoyable (at least to me, ha) so I can recommend it. But as for the sequel.. ha.. well.. you may have a point. It's maybe not AS bad as that whole Ray Milland thing. ha.. but in some ways.. possibly even WORSE, ha.
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108
Personal Diary of an Inept Time Traveler:
"Wait, this is all wrong. I am at an airport. somewhere in the mid 20th century. Dadgum, I must have set the date on my time machine for the wrong century again. This was supposed to be the Battle of Bull Run... Why does stuff like this always happen to ME??"
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HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Mrs Doniphan, ma'am...
Your darlin' Tom was just in the neighborhood and wanted to stop in and say HI!!!
(ps: Hello from me too!)
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Ms Cutter says: You should watch Tommy in two of his most iconic roles: Lonesome Dove and The Fugitive, two very different roles but two great performances
Dear little Bronxie.. if my vote counts for anything.. I have to agree w/ Ms Cutter here for sure.
Those two roles for Jones likely are the two I think of first for him... and sealed me as a fan of his for good.
But be forewarned about Lonesome Dove.. although it is high on the list among my favorite westerns, it is L-O-N-G long (since it was a mini series and not just a "movie") so it's a bit of a time commitment... and it is also often a bit gritty too. But OH the characters are all really good (especially for Jones and Duvall) at least for my money, anyway.
And PS: back to Tommy Lee Jones, I also have to confess, if a bit sheepishly.. ha... that I also liked him in Men in Black, ha (but don't let that get around)
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Ro, I sure hope you get to see an episode or two of HGWT, I feel certain you'll find it kind of like popcorn...you can't stop at just one!
Well, you gals have really convinced me that I should try to see it. I will keep my eye out for it. My mom talks very fondly of this series, but I think it must have come on (first run) too soon for me to have watched it. (and I bet you gals are right.. I WOULD have liked it) as I do enjoy many of the other western tv shows...
Bonanza was tops for me as a kid.. and I L-O-V-E loved Wild Wild West and also Maverick (be still my heart) ha. Oh, and I also enjoyed The Big Valley (though maybe not as much as the others) and I really liked Chuck Connors as The Rifleman too (oh that Mark.. what a little sweetie) ha. (also I was never HUGE on Gunsmoke.. but I think I like it more now than I used to)
One of the things that got me about that "What's My Line" youtube w/ Boone is that panelists commented how they had SO many possible titles for Western tv series to choose from, ha. Oh gee.. those were the days. If ONLY. I guess TV western series back then were a lot like (in terms of popularity) all the crime scene investigator type shows now days.
I am glad there are some channels that have the good sense to show these classic shows in reruns. (though I wish I had the right cable channels that would let me see more of them.. sigh) I do get to see reruns of Bonanza (and sometimes Gunsmoke too) though.. (and you know Bonanza.... well.. ha. THAT one has my favorite lawman... Sheriff Roy Coffee!!!) HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so I guess I am lucky that one is one of the few I can see, ha. (Oh and not only Sheriff Roy Coffee, ha but also Adam... sigh) And PS: anyone and everyone else can just keep that Little Joe (what a brat) ha. I have ALWAYS had my eye on Adam Cartwright. ha. But truthfully if you had to pick a favorite Cartwright.. who could resist HOSS???? (I loved him too.. but maybe not for the same reason as Adam.. ha)
PS Jackie: I am going to be pretty busy from tomorrow night on, (with work and Vacation Bible School craft stuff all next week.. and then scout stuff too) OH ME, ha. It all happens at the same time, doesn't it??ha) But I DO hope to be able to look for The Tall T as soon as I can. And again.. if you folks are ready.. please DO dive in and don't wait on me.. I think it sounds like it would make a great ramble.
Edited by: rohanaka on Jul 24, 2010 1:11 AM
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Well, I gotta confess, I had not seen too much of him as a younger man. (as far as I can recall, I have not seen his tv series, ever, though you folks make it sound like I am missing out for sure) Golly, he is not necessarily "purty" ha, but wow.. in that WML clip.. he did seem almost charming, and he look mighty rugged in that black. (and so LEAN too) I usually always think of him as the older "pudgier" REALLY mean guy in that grubby poncho (from Big Jake) ha.
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OH me.. ha. I LOVE Sheriff ROY COFFEE!! ha. I never knew his real name until now... (I just always thought of him as "that guy who played the gruff, but loveable Sheriff (with the fun to say name) from Bonanza" Ha.) Every time I have ever seen him in anything.. I just always say.. "Hey, it's Sheriff Roy Coffee". ha. (mainly because it is just fun for some unknown reason that I cannot explain to say "Sheriff Roy Coffee". (yes, I am easily entertained, ha)
Poinciana has it right:
Whatever role he played he was believable, whether he be a kindly grandpa or a nasty varmint,
I have seen him in several tv roles off and on over the years and (some films too as I recall, though I cannot name any for certain) and he is always fun to watch, though I have to say (unless you could not have guessed already, ha) I most always just think of him as.... you know.. that GUY from Bonanza. (ha.. I won't say it again.. Ok. yes I will. Did I mention that for some unknown reason I just like to say "Sheriff Roy Coffee?" HA!
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hahahaahahaha Oh my golly...
It seemed like a good idea at the time... REALLY????????????????
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OH my golly.. what a pup! :-)
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Well...being a lover of film noir, and of femme fatales in film noir, I couldn't be caught dead walking anything less than a German Shepherd or Great Dane or Mastiff
Well.. around here, I guess we went with love, instead of drama in the puppy department ha. We have a two yr old Cocker Spaniel.. I know. not very "noir-ish" is he? ha. But he IS way too cute..
And as for having to walk him... Our dog walks himself. BOY did I luck out in that department. (Jackie.. don't be too jealous... ha.If I am in the middle of a late night movie.. and he needs to go out.. I just open the kitchen door.. he goes out.. and maybe 10 minutes or so later.. he scratches on the door.. Iet him back in.) The trick is to have a REALLY REALLY huge fenced in yard, ha. He gets to roam all he wants, gets all the exercise he needs, (and he doesn't even know he is inside a fence, ha.) But the down side for us, is.. all that COCKER SPANIEL HAIR!!! (oh me) Is it ever hard to keep up with. And his FEET, oh my goodness... One trip out in the yard (especially in the fall weather) and his fat furry cocker feet are a HUGE mess of crushed leaves, twigs, etc... imagine going outside to play in your furry house slippers, ha) But did I mention he is cute and loveable.. so I guess that makes up for it.
OH wait... sorry I got so distracted. ha. Here I am going on and on about the dopey dog... and what I REALLY meant to comment on was your TERRIFIC take on Gun Crazy, Miss Maven!!
Wowsa.. I love how you can break down a story and lay it all out there to be examined. Way cool, kid.
She tells him plainly and clearly what she wants. And we see that Bart is aware of what that would entail to get her those ?big things
Yeah buddy. She doesn?t want much, does she. Just your will....your life...whatever you're willing to give up.
That is part of what I was saying the other day about his character being less "easy" to understand than hers. He DID seem to have a conscience.. and I just go so frustrated seeing him so willingly ignore it all the time.. all for love, I guess. But I think Miss Favell had it right. He just had no strength of character.. and I think too, he truly had no idea what he really wanted in life. (other than to shoot) so it made him so willing and easy a "follower". How could he be a leader when he did not have any idea where he wanted to go?
think Joseph H. Lewis did a very robust job of directing this film. I liked the shorthand montage of Bart and Laurie living the good life. And then when the cash runs out...they can?t even order onions with those burgers they eat voraciously. I enjoyed the bank robbery scenes. His choice of shots, camera angles were very strong. I know much has been made of the bank robbery scenes and with good reason. Very well done, especially for those late forties audiences witnessing that level of cinema verite. I did get the sense I was watching a documentary instead of the ?long shot-medium shot-close up? school of filmmaking. Well done Mr. Lewis. With Lewis placing the camera in the back seat, he made us accomplices in the robbery too. Gee, thanks a lot! Crikey! We?re on the lam too and we, (like Bart) were also being taken for a ride!
It was a really great perspective to watch from the back seat like that. (and that almost explains why at times I felt (against my own nature) like I was almost "with them" in terms of WANTING them to succeed in their crimes, I guess. And again, that is not something I would normally do. So it was a bit of a surprising film that way.
I sort of wondered why Lewis never showed the fruits of their labor (having money...being in the chips) after pulling numerous bank robberies. He just focused on them being ?on the run.? To not glorify it, perhaps?
I don't know if that was his intent or not (to "de-glorify" a life of crime on the lam, so to speak) but BOY was that ever the end result (at least for me) anyway. And I liked that a lot about this film too. Because even though I have made my True Crime "confession" (ha) that I almost felt like I was with them, in wanting them to succceed) I REALLY felt their discouragement.. and their frustration and utter exhaustion (especially at the end) with their inability to succeed. Crime really does NOT pay (at least not for these two anyway)
Ooooh, did you see the stare she gave her sister-in-law in the kitchen.
That and the tone of her voice were just bone chilling. She REALLY revealed her true inner self in that scene (at least to me) Before that.. we only got quick glimpses here and there... not really seeing her completely. (except for maybe the look on her face when she lets the uppity woman have it during the Armour plant robbery) In the kitchen.. with Ruby... you see (beyond the shadow of any doubt) who she really is.. and BOY is it ever a much uglier picture than her pretty face allows. Soulless is the right word for it. And the little flickering flame of POSSIBLE redemption and the hint of regret that was shown the night before.. is snuffed out in an instant.
Edited by: rohanaka on Jul 22, 2010 2:10 PM
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I am going to be REALLY busy the next two weeks.. so I do not know if I can make it to the library or not.. but will try.. (and then I still do not know if they even have it on hand or not) so if I do not get to it by the time others are ready, PLEASE do dive in folks and I'll catch up with you when I can. I read the synopsis on the TCM database.. I can see why you gals are chatting about it. (and you too, Mr. Movieman) :-) Sounds like it would be a GREAT choice for a ramble. Hope you all will get started on it and then that way I can at the very least enjoy the read (and if I am able to join in soon, I surely will) Thanks for the tip on this one, folks
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Well, it's official, ha. I have never seen The Tall T.. but am now convinced I should. You gals have me hooked just from the little bit you have brought up here.. especially re: Boone.. but also Mims too (That's an actor that is not ringing any bells for me, but gee.. his name SOUNDS so friendly for a guy who is supposed to be bad, ha)
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Ha.. thanks Miss Maven for the reminder.. I had completely forgotten about that thread.. and you really had me going there for a minute. I was beginning to worry I had been the victim of "identity theft" or something, ha, (because the quote you had from me was NOTHING that I ever remembered saying as I have NEVER seen Jack Nicholson in The Shooting so how could I have made HIM my number one.. and then to have that slimy FRANK guy from Once Upon a Time in the West as number TWO??? Perish the thought, ha) I knew I was a lousy list maker... but I never knew HOW bad (if I could not even remember making a list like that, ha)
So I went into the link.. and actually... what you were quoting as ME, was really me quoting SHIFTLESS GRIMES' from HIS list. (I was commenting on his top two picks for most awful bad guys) and then it all made SENSE to me. (whew.. you had me worried for a minute there, ha)
I need to read on further to be sure because I don't know if I tried my hand at making a list of my own in there or not... I think the rest of my posts in that thread are mostly just me agreeing with someone that Karl Malden (as Frenchie in the Hanging Tree) was POND SCUM (ha) and then I was also giving Miss G a hand at slapping the Grey Dude around a bit (as I am sure he deserved it for badmouthing Tom Doniphan) ha.
Gee... it really DOES always come back to TMWSLV sooner or later, doesn't it??? HA!
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Hmmmmmmmmm....YouTube, ey?
Well if that means what I think it means, all I can say is "yeehaw!"
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HI there young'un. :-)
I actually rewatched this on AMC myself recently...on Memorial weekend I think
They have been replaying that one several times lately (and I am glad because I had not seen it in a really long time) but I still have not gotten to REALLY watch it all the way through in a long while yet... I missed the beginning this time.. and then there was that whole "kidling" thing going on too, ha. So it was a "hit and miss" movie for me the other day. But I was glad to at least see as much as I did.
He's definitely up there with Marvin, Richard Boone (Big Jake) for most awful villains
I still have to put Marvin in the #1 slot, but BOY is it ever close. ha. (we should make a list of our favorite (love to hate 'em) cowboy movie bad guys, ha. Only you would have to go first because I am LOUSY at list making) ha.
loathe Dern's character more than either of the others because he has NO redeeming traits...not even charm of form or personality. He's just a snake! Dern said he got a lot of hate mail after playing that character, ha.
Oh my gosh my golly, what a "snake" ha. That is a perfect way to describe that guy. (and how funny that people would send the ACTOR hate mail for playing such a ROTTEN character ,ha. I have no idea what Dern is like in real person... but OH me.. on screen.. he certainly was a MONSTER. And even if he (the actor) is just the nicest guy in the world, ha. well.. I say again... he should NOT be that good of an actor, ha. Because he was WAY too believable, ha. He had ME about ready to write him a letter.. ok.. not really.. but I was ready to climb through the screen and slap him around a bit before the Cowboys boys finished him off.. ha. (much more satisfying than a pencil and paper) ha.
I love the Mr. Nightlinger character in this film. (the QT and I crack up everytime we talk about this movie because of the scene where he is "confessing" his sins (just before Dern THINKS he is going to hang him) and he says something like. "Forgive me for the men I have killed in anger... and those I am about to" ha. I KNOW that is not supposed to be funny.. but after seeing this film before.... and then knowing the fate that is about to befall DERN's character not long after that, it is a GREAT anticipation builder. ha. (oh golly, I am sounding awfully blood thirsty this morning, aint I?)
Loved the story about your little Duke-lette! She knows what side she's on
Ha.. she is definitely a "black and white" gal after my own heart. :-)
Edited by: rohanaka on Jul 21, 2010 12:49 PM
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Hi there, Jackie...
Not at all! I just meant that I like getting into a little more character talk
Ha.. what a relief. I was hoping that is what you meant. WHEW!
(We can save all the "fussing and fighting" for the GREY dude, ha.) And I am with you on enjoying the deeper aspects of certain characters. For me, WHY someone does the sorts of things in a story like this is at least as interesting (if not far more intriguing) as what they actually do. What it is that makes a person think the way these two did is a whole "character study" in itself and very thought provoking.
I just enjoy going for the fast ride.... I enjoyed seeing what it was like to be on the wrong side of the law.
OH you little thrill seeker, ha. But you do not strike me as a "thrill killer" though. Or even a "crime spree" junkie, ha. (at least I HOPE not, anyway)
. Truthfully, I can see letting your imagination run away from time to time, and I think it is fun to picture yourself in certain situations in a movie like this.. but honestly... I don't think I have ever wanted to be on the wrong side of the law. Ha.I am too boring, ha. I've always been more of a "goody two shoes" I guess, ha. Even as a teen, when EVERYBODY tries SOMETHING, ha, I was too big of a chicken to try to even get away with even anything "petty" let alone serious. ha. I think I might have maybe had "detention" possibly ONE time in my whole life (over something really stupid, if memory serves, now that I look back on it, ha) But mostly I just did not make too many waves because I did not want to get in trouble at school or at home. ha. And not even so much for the "I am too afraid of the consequences" reasons as it was just because I never thought it sounded like fun to me to "live on the edge" ha. (Oh gee, ha, I am so boring)
That is so amazing - you put your finger on what I liked so much about Cummins perforrmance - that flicker of sensibility behind the eyes! Yes. You would see her thinking something over coldly, but then that flicker would happen and you would realize that she was just a young girl
She really did handle both aspects (hardened criminal/aimless young woman looking for happiness) very well. I feel she gave a softer side to the soulless killers that sometimes get portrayed in movies like this. If she had spent more time berating Bart.. and whining about not wanting to live on "$40 a week" and making him look like a total loser all the time.. she'd have been much more "stereotypical". She had a completely OTHER side to her though. And I liked the "back and forth" with her personality.
SPOILER CRAZY:
When they decided they needed to split up and started to drive off in seperate cars going two different directions.. I really liked how she turned her car around too... it was not a one sided relationship w/ them. I really do believe she loved him (the best she knew how) but more importantly.. I think she felt lost without him.. she needed him for more than just a "back up" gun. It really was sad to see how two people who MIGHT have had a very happy life together end up going so HOPELESSLY far down the wrong path together instead.
loved the caged animal in her! That last scene was a doozy - I loved her high pitched wailing at that point... I think someone mentioned Cat People somewhere along the way, well she really was a wildcat at that point. I could almost hear the shriek of the wounded cat in her voice.
I like that comparison. It is just the way to describe her. If I am remembering right, wasn't the wild cat (in the scene from when he was a boy) a "wounded" cat too? And again, if am recalling it correctly.. it had a bounty out on it as well. HMMM... After all those years he finally was able to kill that cat. And he was finally able to then what he could not before. He saved the community around him by getting rid of a dangerous predator, but also put the cat out of its misery all at the same time... But I might be remembering the "cat" story wrong and reading too much into it.
I couldn't help but think she was abused in some way as a child, however, that would be too simplistic, wouldn't it?
Actually, it would explain a lot. Maybe instead of abused, she was neglected. And never felt like she had anything of her own,and always wanted more for herself because she never had enough care or love as a kid. (but she did at least have a father, because she mentioned her dad being the one who taught her how to shoot. (didn't he have a shooting range or something?) I wonder if he was a "loving" parent or if he treated her badly. And where was her mom? I don't know. Who is to say what happened. I think there must have been SOMETHING in her past.. either a single traumatic event... or some sort of life long series of events that pushed her heart and mind over the edge. And then again.. ha. as little Rhoda has taught us.. some folks are just born rotten. So it is hard to tell.
She is a freak of nature, an aberration
You may be right. At the very least.. I will say she was certainly more unique and "original" in her thoughts and attitudes, than the average young woman running around back in the day, ha. (She was certainly not "June Cleaver" material, ha.)
Do you think that maybe Laurie and Bart were two halves of a whole? Neither one was really a complete person without the other?
In some ways you may be right. It goes back to what I mentioned earlier. I do think they both needed the other. But who needed whom more? It looks like (on the surface) that he needed HER more.. because he gave himself over to a life of crime just to be with her... but really.. I think she at the very least was MISSING something.. (again.. maybe she never felt she had any real love in her life and so she needed him to love her) and she truly did seem more needy than he did in a lot of ways. (Look at how HE planned a lot of the crimes... he was the one calling the shots (at least in the planning stages) for the big Armour plant robbery, drawing out the plans, running through the "scheme" with her to make sure she knew what to do) I know some think he was weak.. and in a LOT of ways.. he was.. but she "needed" him to be strong FOR her.. and maybe that was his "weakness". (does that make sense? ha. Likely not.. I am not sure I explained it the way it is playing out in my mind, ha)
Bart could have gotten along in society just fine without her, I think he was lacking in something...what was it? Not judgment, but strength of character? He only found it at the end, and through Laurie's actions.
His weakness really bugged me. I wanted him to go one way or the other. I found him very frustrating, and actually less sympathetic than she
"Frustrating" is the right word. I think his whole issue was lack of direction. He had NO plans.. no ideas.. no "dreams" other than wanting to "shoot". And when he met her.. and she "needed" him.. it gave him the direction in life he had been lacking. Sadly.. it was the WRONG direction.. and yes.. it was because he had no "strength" of inner character.
She never misled him (I don't think) and he never really let himself be led anywhere by her that he did not go of his own free will. (and again.. he even began to take on more and more "leadership" in the relationship too) But his one "weakness" that hurt him more than any other is that he gave in to her far too often when she would plead with him or threaten to leave him (especially about wanting just "one more job") VERY few times did he ever "stand up to her" about anything and say, "No, that is the wrong thing to do"
Oh, he TRIED, at the beginning, but when she told him she would leave him, he just did not have any "inner strength" or moral compass to call her bluff and say, "See ya later." That was not his first mistake.. but it really was the ONE mistake that led him down the path of no return.
At least the very few times he DID tell her no.. involved causing physical harm to others.. like when he stopped her from shooting one of their robbery victims (by grabbing the gun if I remember right) and also when he stopped her from taking the baby as a hostage.) So he did have a "limit" as to how far he was willing to go.. but the lines got blurry for him (far too often) the more he immersed himself in a life of crime. (like the time he "wanted" to shoot the driver chasing them, instead of the tires of the car)
Sometimes he forgot himself.. but fortunately.. he really was NOT a killer by nature.. so that at least was his one saving grace. Again... HER character made a LOT more sense to me in some ways.. because he DID seem to have some moral "mindset" that she lacked. And I guess maybe it frustrated me more to see him choose the wrong path than it did for me to see her go that way.
The one thing I did like was how they kind of fell into their life of crime, were excited by it, but then found it to be worse than empty. They seemed very young and stupid at that point, and that made me like them all over again. He even asks her something like, "Didn't you ever think about what would happen? How we could never go back?" or some such sentence.... and I wanted to scream at him, "Why does she have to do all the thinking for you? Why didn't you think of it yourself and make your decision back then?"
Ha.. well, ever since WAY way back in the Garden of Eden.. when Adam blamed Eve (and God too, for that matter) instead of taking responsibility for his OWN actions, (as in "The woman YOU gave me made me do it" ) some men have pointed fingers at their wives instead of at themselves when things do not turn out the way they want. ha. (not all men, though) He SHOULD have realized for himself what the end result would be.. but he was really only in it to keep her happy. And not becuase he thought it was a good idea. The truth is.. it really was a sad thing to see him have such a low level of expectation for what it would take for them to have a life together (as in: "I know it is wrong to rob banks, but gee.. honey.. if that is what will make you happy, count me in")
If the QT were to suddenly come to me and say, "Hey Kathy, let's go rob a bank" (first of all) I'd laugh at him.. and then I kick him in the pants (if he turned out to be serious) But that is because we both KNOW what we want out of life. (and oddly enough, a career in crime followed by prison.. or violent death) aint IT, ha) But Laurie and Bart both had NO real "expectations" from one another other for their lives.. or for their future. They really were just "in the moment" kind of people. They did not even have any sense about what they should DO w/ their money because they had to use what they stole just to keep running and hiding from one job to the next..
Their big plans for "Mexico" were not even realistic, and even if they HAD been able to get away with everything.. I think their plans to flee the country would not have panned out because I think for Laurie (and so then also for Bart) there would always need to be "just one more job") They really had NO concept for planning for a "future" together. They could not really plan much further than their next "job".
these two were destined to end this way. I don't know how Lewis got that feeling of pre-ordained destiny in that ending.... just by the way things looked, and his timing of the shots. Amazing
That is a great way to look at it, and it almost lends a bit of credence to my whole "wild cat" thought that I mentioned earlier (about him finally getting that shot he missed all those years ago when he could not kill the first "wounded" cat). Though I am still not sure I am right about that. But it really was a sad end to two very tragic lives.
Yet in all honesty.. given all the wrong turns they had made for so long.. how could it have played out any other way
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thanks for getting into it here with me...I'll be back later on tonight to discuss what you brought up.
UH OH, by saying "getting into it with you" ha.. well NOW I am thinking you are thinking I am some sort of trouble maker or something... HA.
(oh perish the thought) All kidding aside, I'll look forward to hearing more of your thoughts on this one, my little OK Kid.
I think this is one movie where everyone is going to have a different take on these characters (at least in one way or another) because I have to admit.. there were times when I liked them both very much. And even though I often had a hard time having sympathy for them, some of the scenes (like the one bank robbery scene ChiO mentioned where they drove around looking for a parking spot, etc) really drew me in along witht them to the point I even found myself almost rooting for them to succeed.. which caught me TOTALLY by surprise considering that is not something I would normally do.. very unusual film.
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Hiya Ms Favell,
Well guess what, (duh) I remembered a conversation w/ you and Miss G (from some time ago) and I went into youtube.. and sure enough.. I found Gun Crazy there. (So of course I had to watch it, ha) I was feeling so left out reading everyone's comments on this film that I decided to forsake a decent night's sleep (yet again, ha) and see what you all were really talking about.
So now I can say (without hesitation) that I am really glad to have gotten a chance to see this film. (that youtube is a wonderful thing, ha)
I loved Gun Crazy too... I have a perverse and gleeful love of Peggy Cummins character, Annie Laurie Starr. I loved her decisive manner and her cold dead eyes
That is a good way to describe her. And yet... sometimes there was just the tiniest flicker of life there. (but I will get back to that in a moment) I think you are right in saying that she loved Bart the best she knew how.. but she really just did not know how to love anyone. And it was pretty sad. So I did have some sympathy for her, but it was REALLY hard to be very sympathetic overall.
*Pretty much the rest of my post is just one huge "spoiler" so for those who have not seen this film, read on at your own risk*
At least twice during the film, Annie Laurie says that she only kills when she gets scared...do you think this is true? Or is it an excuse? And if it is true, what is it that scares her most?
Well, first of all.. I think it went even deeper than her comments being "true vs excuse". I think she was a lot more complex way down inside. (and yet in some ways.. almost operating under the most basic of instincts) To me.. she was a perfect example of someone who more or less had NO conscience.. but was not completely "done for" in that department all together. I think in HER mind.. she was telling the truth.. she only kills when she gets scared.... but if you look at the two killings at the Armour plant... the one old gal w/ the "skirt" comment vs the security guard.. you get a better feel for who she really is.
She killed the "uppity" old woman out of spite. (in my opinion any way) She saw that the alarm had been pulled.. but in truth.. what else could that gal have REALLY done to her? Was she "scared"? Maybe.. but not by that woman. Shooting her was "payback".
But outside.. when they were making their get away.. yeah.. she shot the security guard because he was shooting (or at least chasing) her. So I can see that one as being a reaction to fear (of at least being caught)
To me, the "worst" of her came out in a couple of different ways.. first of all.. when she felt "threatened" she reacted like a caged animal. (like at the end.. when she was yelling "I'll kill them" You are right.. she was NOT going to be "taken". But in a totally OTHER way, you are right as well.. because the other "worst" part of her (at least from what I could tell) was how she sometimes resented anyone who was going to try and make her "accountable" for the life she was living and the way she was living it. BOY could she be mean. (and it was not because of any sort of "threat" to her physically.
When Bart first resists her schemes to go on a crime spree.. she really was just hideous to him.. saying something like "Kiss me goodbye.. because I won't be here when you get back" She manipulated his feelings for her to keep him "on the line" more or less and keep him "with" her to the point that he was willing to enter a life of crime just to be with her. And already mentioned how I felt her killing of the "uppity" woman was "payback" for talking down to her earlier. You got a REAL sense of how mean spirited she really was, deep down inside.
And yet not totally "gone". It was if her "conscience" was on it's last leg. Because at one moment.. just before they opened up that kitchen door at Ruby's house.. there is a scene where they were looking in the window.. and OH me.. you almost get a sense of how she is reflecting on what it MIGHT have been like if she and Bart could have only had a "normal" life. You can almost see her thinking that it might have been HER standing there at the stove w/ all those sweet little kids around her... if only... So I did get a sense that maybe.. somewhere DEEP down inside her.. there was just a small, smoldering flicker of conscience.. or perhaps regret.. for the life she had chosen. (and not regret that she was sorry she did not get away with it, but more regret for not choosing better for herself) But it did not last long... becuase the very next day... there was the ugly conversation with Ruby, in the kitchen while Bart was out of the room. THAT spoke volumes as to her true "nature" being less sympathetic than she sometimes appeared earlier on. And then finally, when they were ready to run again, there she was carrying that baby.. about to kidnap it and take it with them for protection. If her conscience was "on life support" the night before.. ha. It was a goner the second she picked up that little kid. She was completely DONE morally and spiritually by that one act, as far as I could tell.
John Dall was very good, sort of flat and midwestern at first, an American Hamlet, unable to make up his mind
Of the two, I feel the most sympathy for his character, obviously. But to be truthful.. HER character made more sense to me than HIS did. (I KNOW.. that itself doesn't make any sense, does it??? ha) I think he was a very tragic character to be sure. A guy.. who just wanted to enjoy his ONE thing that he was good at.. shooting. But it was an "obsession" for him from an early age and I know you and Molo both have said the beginning was too "much" but in some ways.. I wish it had gone further. Because I thought the scenes where he shot the little chick.. and was SORRY for it.. and then later when he had the chance to kill again and wouldn't.. were very good. I think I would have liked to see him "try and fail" (to do well for himself in life) a bit more than I did because it made me have a REALLY hard time having much sympathy for him when he chose to stay w/ her and become a criminal. Though I am glad his true nature stayed more or less in tact.. he was NOT a killer. If you think about it.. although he accepts his share of the responsibility (even when she doesn't accept hers) for the two people who died in the robbery, he literally NEVER took a human life.. until he killed her at the end. And THAT (I think) was because A) he wanted to stop her from killing his friends, and
he loved her and wanted to keep her from having to suffer any more.. because they clearly were not going to get away. A bullet can be a final act of love.
Ha.. that is it exactly. At least w/ regard to the "Part B" that I just mentioned above.
I am still trying to figure out my complete "take" on his character over all. But if I had to compare him w/ her.. I'd say she was a good example of what happens when someone ignores their conscience too long (for whatever reason) and finally is left with a dead and bankrupt soul. And he is a good example of someone who did not ignore his enough to completely fall away.. but did not LISTEN to it enough to do what is right. Which is worse? I am not sure, to be honest. (and that is hard for me to admit)
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When everyone gets done with "Rutledge" I can tell you about seeing "The Cowboys" at the theater as a 15 year old.
Woo hoo, I would love to hear it.
(and PS: folks.. I was not trying to wrap up Rutledge or push it along. (ha. I wasn't even trying to start a new ramble, ha.) I just got into "blab" mode and my little "Cowboys" story came out in the process. ha. So please do go on w/ Woody and Pappy a bit longer if you are of a mind.. it has been a fun read)
PS: Miss Bronxie:
in the end SARGEANT RUTLEDGE is all about a true John Ford hero we should hold close in our hearts and minds.
Well said, youngun. I really enjoyed reading your thoughts on this film. (I'm glad you are feeling less "under" the weather too)
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Let me get my Ramblers straight...weren?t you the one who didn?t confess to spilling somepopcorn in a movie-goer's coat hood? What?s the psychological significance with you and popcorn, anyway? Do share. No, not the popcorn.
Ha.. NO Miss Maven, I believe the "Offender" there was Miss Favell. ha. This (as far as I can remember) is my only popcorn related story, ha. And PS: I have no psychological "thing" about popcorn that I know of.... except that I get all "googly-eyed" just smelling it pop. ha. It is right up there with bacon and possibly fresh coffee as one of the more aromatically pleasing foods on the planet. HA.
PS: some more.. I will gladly share the popcorn.. but keep out of my Reece's Peanut Butter Cups and/or Jr. Mints. HA!!
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Terrific thread, Mr. "In Hollywood". I L-O-V-E love the artwork on these posters. (my fave is the "Main
Street Cinema" one. (and also the one w/ Louis Armstrong too) Thanks for posting these.
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Hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha... and ha!
I love this thread!
OH my goodness me, Miss Bronxie.. thank you for the trip down memory lane!! ha. I first saw this film when I was a young'un. (maybe 11 or 12?) We lived in Alaska (my dad was in the Army) and we actually had BEEN in some very minor (very, very minor) little "tremors" so it was just way TOO cool for us kids to go see a movie where it REALLY shook things up, ha. That's all we talked about on the way home was "OH, what if this happened HERE?" (because it was only just a little more than a decade earlier it HAD happened there where we were... so we just were living on the brink of disaster as far as WE were concerned, ha)
This film IS (looking back on it all now) a lot funnier than I think it ever was supposed to be.. but maybe NOT.. ha. Because I also recall a scene (that provided me w/ one of those "embarassing moments") where a guy at the dam ends up getting drowned in the elevator. And I remember when the elevator doors open and he washes out into the hall, I cracked up, ha. And evidently I was the only person in an otherwise crowded theater who thought that someone drowning in an elevator was ridiculous, ha. Because NO one else was laughing but me. (so I sunk a little lower in my seats and tried to hide behind my WAY less expensive than NOW days giant tub of popcorn. (ha) Hey.. I was a kid.. I embarrassed more easily THEN, ha. I feel certain that if were in that same theater... seeing it all over again for the first time.. I'd stil laugh.. only now I'd have to have a MUCH much larger tub of popcorn to hide behind.. but that is a whole other story.. ha.
How I'd rather remember _________
OH golly.. ha. Just fill in the BLANK!!!! (you are way too funny, little missy)
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I'm really glad I caught this one
Wowsa I am really glad you did too!! If only so I could read your POST!
GREAT Screencaps, sir, from you and the Grey Dude too. (did I mention "wowsa?")
PS: Mr. Chi0 sir, it is a pleasure to have you stop by here as well...
You folks are all really making me kick myself more and more for missing this one, ha.(PS: Miss Maven... appearantly I was not thinking EITHER, ha. (but that is nothing new for the likes of me, ha)
I said this earlier, but will run the risk of repeating myself, ha, I am such a doofus for NOT being more careful to check the schedule BEFORE a movie on my wanna see list comes on. ( duh)
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I thought I was burning the midnight oil here but you had me beat by an hour! I hope everything's okay
Thanks, little missy. All is well. Just a bit of bleary eyed "goofiness" ha. I have been going back and forth a bit on my work schedule the last few days (due to some special training, etc) and it had been making me a bit "confused" as to what a normal bed time ought to be. ha. I am staying awake when I should be asleep.. and wishing for a nap when I should be awake, ha. I will get it all figured out eventually. (and if not, I will just have to start taping my eyelids open. HA!!!)
I'm just learning this as I go, and what I know
about film techniques could rattle around in a thimble. Jackie's taught me a lot
through her posts. But it's fun to learn, not just with Ford but all great film makers
Well it is true she has a great eye as well. But I am learning a lot (especially about Ford) from the both of you, so I guess that makes me the lucky one.
Thanks for putting up with me
No way kid. I am the one who usually says that to YOU. ha. I have discovered a LOT of really great films (some of them Ford.. and then plenty of others too) that I would likely never have seen without the recommendations from you and several other folks on here too. And I am grateful that you and others are willing to let me come on here and just blab my little heart out. ha. It has been fun for me to be able to expand my movie watching horizons a bit as well. I mean.. what.. not much more than a year ago I'd have LAUGHED if someone had said "Kathy.. you will start a thread on NOIR" ha. (first of all... I hate starting threads.. and second.. NOIR?? ME??? ha. But it has been fun)
But truthfully.. my heart is in the Westerns. I love them the most, for sure. Though I KNOW I have only scratched the surface even there. I have a long way to go, no doubt.
I was just watching part of The Cowboys yesterday. I missed a good portion of it early on, but I had to stop and watch it once I realized it was playing because it is just such a great story. The kidling kept popping in and out of the room (and I kept turning the channel when things were getting too intense in places as I was not too sure about some of it as it is a bit grittier than I usually let her watch) But she did like seeing those kids on horseback ridin' and ropin' and such. It was really funny because I told her (a couple of times to go play in her room and I'd call her when she could come back) ha... and she said "Why can't I watch this part?" and I said it was too "gritty" for her.
And she said "What is gritty? Does it mean STUPID?" ha. And the reason she asked THAT was just a few minutes before they had played a scene w/ the Duke being particularly "vocal" and yelling some commands at the kids and she had complained that he was not sounding very nice" and I said, "Yes.. he is not being very friendly is he" to which she replied "No, he's being STUPID, someone ought to tell him to be quiet" ha. (bossy little thing, aint she? I don't know WHERE she gets it)
But then I told her he was only trying to make the boys toughen up so they would be better "Cowboys" because that was really hard work and you had to be tough. So she forgave him. ha.
MINI spoiler:
I did send her out of the room again when it started to go "ugly" near the end between Duke and Bruce Dern though. I thought it might be too much for her. And I was right because then after old Bruce Dern had already done his worst on the Duke, she came back in the room, (just before he died) and she actually got really mad and yelled "Oh no, who did that to him. He was rude earlier but he was still a GOOD GUY" And I pointed out Bruce Dern's character to her and she said "Well now HE's the one being stupid. He's just a big bully. Nobody kills John Wayne, he is the star of the show!" ha.
Oh me.. I am raising a little Peacemaker Jr. ha. She has less patience with bullies than even I do. ha.
So I told her just to wait a minute and he would get HIS. And then I did let her watch Dern's character get his comeuppance. OH man did he ever make a great BAD guy. He should NOT be so good at playing someone so ROTTEN. His character in this film is one of my all time MOST hated bad guys out of all the westerns I can ever recall (but I mean that I LOVED to hate him) . Liberty Valance is always going to come in first.. but Dern's character in this movie is WAY up there on the list for sure. (I think Richard Boone in Big Jake has to be in the top 10 too, but I digress, ha.)
Anyway.. that horse dragging bit in this film was just the ticket. By the end of it all, ha, the kid and I were both cheering to see him dragged away, ha. OH my golly.. it was the very least he deserved. (did I mention he should not be so good at playing someone so rotten???) ha.
Edited by: rohanaka on Jul 18, 2010 7:31 PM
I would NEVER presume to inflict my movie watching preferences on you. ha. (that is why I admitted it "sheepishly" HA.) I freely admit it would not be for EVERYONE"S tastes.. ha. 
he loved her and wanted to keep her from having to suffer any more.. because they clearly were not going to get away.
RAMBLES Part II
in Films and Filmmakers
Posted
Wow Miss G, you are getting some first rate folks all dropping in to say hi!! (Even OLLIE showed up!! ha) And now look... Our beloved Bull came by to give you a HUG!!
John T wonders:
Just so long as it is not THIS guy....
But don't worry.. because if he DOES show up.... we know how to take care of the likes of HIM, don't we???
Edited by: rohanaka on Jul 29, 2010 1:32 PM