rohanaka

Ha.. When I read that title, I about fell out of my chair. I never thought I'd live to see the day! (ha) :-) I will be busy most of the day tomorrow.. but wouldn't you know it.. I will be done JUST in time for THAT movie.. ha. Go figure. Well, I no longer have any 'scuses for not watching that stack of DVDs I've been putting off tomorrow night I will be right over to join you! I'll bring the popcorn.

If he steps TOO far out of line... I will MAKE time to come back for the hanging.. ha. My frozen ropes are in the freezer. Just say the word, little lady.

(cough.. sputter.. excuse my while I blow the dust off of this thread.. ha) OH for pity's sake. I JUST looked on the TCM schedule for tomorrow night.... HOW much sway DOES Frank Grimes have with those TCM progamming gurus, anyway??????????????????????? (good grief)

Having too much time on my hands is making a long winded monster out of me NOT long winded.. NOR a monster. PERISH the thought. OH girlie. I wish I had time to say more (but sadly for now I am on the "opposite end" of the "too much time" spectrum right now.) I have NO time to even go back and read through all the posts that led up to what you most recently shared... But I do plan to go back later and try to catch up on it all soon. However I thoroughly enjoyed your MWSLV posts.. and just will just say for now how wonderful it is to see you "splurge" a little of your "down time" with us. It's been far too long since I last saw you get a chance to write for us like that. (Ha.. listen to me.. I am so egotisticall... you are writing for "us" ha. But golly girlie... I am glad you are at least willing to SHARE what you write w/ us. Wowsa.) Keep it up, youngun. :-)

Boating is dangerous! Only if you get caught...

Hey there Mr. Madhat Molo Dude.... Wowsa... when you decided to take a "walk" you didn't just fall in for a stroll... you went on a three mile hike with full gear!! :-) I have really enjoyed all your thoughts and observations (and your ponderings and musings) as to what it is that made Ellen tick. That for me is one of the more interesting aspects of the entire movie. Which may explain my little 'flight of fancy" about the dad.. I just wanted to figure her out... because although I DO believe... some folks are born to be "bad"... in a way.... maybe like little Rhoda... I also believe that the greater majority of ROTTEN folks are otherwise created (either by their own selfish desires or by their upbringing... or a combination of both) And I guess that I imagined Ellen more in that latter group.. a combination of her own selfishness and her parental upbringing. But if she was more of a "bad seed" as April's book implied... I guess that makes her all the more "scary", doesn't it? (yikes) Molo says: Leave her to heaven, indeed. It is an EXCELLENT title for the book/film isn't it? I think that there are some people and situations in this world that defy our abilities to "make right" and there are times when divine justice is all we can (and perhaps should) hope for. Who better to take care of things, than the one in supreme authority over all? Personally.. I think there are also times when a crime (or criminal) is so bad that "worldy" punishment is not nearly enough either... so I am happy to trust in the highest authority to hand down the better "sentence". For all my "peacemaker" ways, ha. I personally love those old westerns where the "hanging judge" hands down the sentence and says "may God have mercy on your soul" to some horrible awful criminal. And I alway want to add "because no on on earth is going to". Again... sometimes "earthly punishment' is just not bad enough. And that is how I felt about Ellen by the end of it all, even as much as I wanted to like her.. .and as much as I did find some of her actions to be understandable. Still.. it was sad to see. She really was diving headlong toward her own judgment... and I felt like she more or less had NO idea (and like you said.. no concern) for the fate she'd brought about for herself. She was so consumed by her own desire to "get" her sister and her husband for what she THOUGHT was their unfaithfulness to her, that she was blinded to even the concept of the punishment (both earthly and eternal) that she was bringing on herself. Wow.. she really was a loon, wasn't she? Which brings me to my next point. As to whether this is a noir or not... I can see this film falling in to a more "psychological thriller" category just as easily as "noir" (something like... Night Must Fall... or Shadow of a Doubt.) I know the debate on "what IS a Noir anyway?" will go on long after my chat on this dies down... so I am not even all that worried about it myself. I am not so educated yet as to have a real opinion on that subject and even if I did.. ha... who's to say whether it would be correct. But I do know that some folks take a broader definition as to what is the acceptable definition, so I went with that for the purposes of our chat and posted here in this thread. But I readily admit it may not fit everyone's definition. (and am not even sure it fits mine.. if I HAD a definition, anyway, ha) But personally, I think when defining genres, some films can fit into a "this and also that" definition. And Leave Her to Heaven could be one of those. (PS: Thanks again so much for those screencaps too... they are utterly gorgeous!!) PS: Miss Bronxie... re: the Geritol.. ha. Does it come in Six Packs?? And if so.. pick one up and you and I can go out "drinking" HA!! I think I need it worse than you.. ha. In the meantime, I look forward to having you jump in and join us, kid. (about this film AND the Killers) "Walk" on in any time, young'un! :-)

Hiya Ms Favell.... I have been in a bit of a frenzy lately (trying to keep all my ducks in a row.. ha. Those lousy ducks) So I have not been able to get on here much the last day or so... but wanted to take a moment and finally get back with you about something you said the other day: Jackie says: I liked her almost even past the killing Danny section....I'm kind of embarrassed to say it. Danny was a bit of a pain who wouldn't take a hint He was a bit of an annoying kid. But I think his biggest problem was that he'd bben sick for so long and was just so desperate to have his whole life (including his life with his brother) back to normal again. Who wants to be stuck in a convalescent home and not be around the one person you have in the whole world? He was starved for "family" and a normal life again. But I also think part of the problem with his being so "clinging" and wanting to be around all the time was that Ellen created her "own monster" by her false kindess to him at the beginning. By trying to impress her husband how WONDERFUL she was in being so accepting of his own sense of duty and affection for Danny (and by pretending to adopt the same attitude of love for Danny herself) she more or less made her own bed when Danny responded to her attention. He (and his big brother too) took her at face value. Why wouldn't they? Neither of them had any clue that she was anything but the caring, supportive, and loving "new sister" to Danny that she had been pretending to be. The only one who got his eyes opened early on about that was the doctor. And I wish he'd spoken up somehow... and maybe tried to keep Danny from going once he saw how two faced and rotten she really was... it might have hurt Danny... but it would have possibly saved his life. Or at least I wish the doctor had come forward about what he knew (to Cornel Wilde) after Danny died... because then maybe HE would not have been so clueless and could have put two and two together a little sooner than HE did as well) But alas... and the whole "let's have everyone stay here indefinitely" was really kind of horrible to me. I couldn't have agreed more that her relatives should have known that they were in the way, and Richard should never have invited them so soon after the marriage. Where were they all from, these guys? Mars? It's Gene Tierney, for goodness sake! Spend some time alone with your wife! There are men out here on the message boards who would have traded places with you like a shot and been happy to kill someone for her. But again, she should have just said, "I want to be alone with you" and if she had done that at the beginning he would have simply melted and said, "Ok, let's send your folks back home." But she was so used to getting what she wanted, she never even thought of I think you are exactly right. And it is a very natural thing for a new wife to want to be alone with her husband. So those feelings alone, were not wrong. He really was a bit clueless... (you are right there too.. ha WHAT planet was he from anyway?? ha) but I think he was trying to please her... and the reason he did not really know how goes back to what we talked about earlier... she did not know how (or just refused) to communicate her real feelings. It was almost like she expected everyone to do things her way because she was entitled... but she also felt it was their duty to her for everyone to read her mind too. (Gee wouldn't THAT be nice sometimes? ha) Or maybe she just trusted in her own skills of manipulation so much it gave her a false sense of security that she had control over everything and did not need to tell him how she felt, and made her all the crazier to find out she was wrong, when it did not pan out. Or maybe she really was very insecure in the great scheme of things and was just too afraid of LOOKING selfish by telling him what she really wanted) I don't know. But GEE.. whatever the reasons... when she felt things getting out of control, she certainly had quite the way of trying to yank things back toward her own way of thinking, now didn't she? Just like a three year old when someone tries to take their favorite toy.. only on steriods maybe, ha.

Well so much for MY little flight of fancy about that DAD!!! ha. I think you are right, it DOES make her sound ever so much more "Rhoda-like". EEWW... Creepier than the other scenario in a way.. she was just "born to be rotten"... PS... Ms Favell... gotta run, but will reply later.. you hit on something I want to come back to. :-)

Hiya little Miss OK Kid :-) She decides early on to lie, to subvert her feelings in order to be the perfect image of what he wants. Or at least what she THOUGHT he should want. I think you may be narrowing it all down even further for some of what made Ellen as "messed up in the head and heart" as she finally turned out to be. I know I did a lot of speculating on the dad... but IF I am close... (and I freely admit it was all a lot of guessing so who knows?) and if he really did teach her that her real value was that she was there to "worship" him.. then the societal mindset of the day that your are speaking of.. where the women were looked upon as an extension of their husband's life.. and the husband then became their "work" (to borrow your words) would have made it even more inevitable for her to go berzerk the way she did. And you are right too, about lack of communication being a big issue for her w/ her husband. And it wasn't like he didn't care about what she wanted or was thinking. I think he did at least try to figure her out sometimes. She did have chances to communicate with him... but she just tried to rearrange things for them both to make thier little world the way she wanted it to be, instead. She was an "arranger". The way she proposed to him... without even really giving him a chance to agree or not would have really backfired on her if he had said no. So once he went along with her lie at the beginning (and helped her save face) it sort of made it even easier for her to at least think she was on her way to making all the rest of the arrangements for his life from there on out. And the way he let her decide almost everything (I want to do all the cooking, housework, etc) made her think he'd be a push over even more. So when she saw she wasn't able to "push over" him or anyone else about Danny... well... she took matters into her hands on a completely different level... but the mindset behind why was the same... It was still her way of trying to arrange for her husband to only have the life she wanted for him. (And as a side note.. OH GEE...we now KNOW she really was a complete crazy before the killing started.. ha. WHO in their right mind WANTS to do housework??? ha. I only WISH my husband would have said... "Let's hire a maid", ha. ) And PS: I do agree with you how likeable she was (especially at the beginning) I think I mentioned it earlier in one of my other posts how confused it made me (at least to some degree) to find her have so many good qualities and to end up so rotten.

Hello there Mr. Madhat!!!! First I just want to say THANK you so much for these GORGEOUS screen caps. Wowsa... In that first meeting on the train, she stares long and hard at Harland. It really was the first sort of "sign" that she had some little wheels a turnin' in the back of her mind. I wonder if she'd have given him the time of day if he'd been blonde? Or if he had a beard? Was it really the fact that he reminded her so much of her father? I think it must have been some sort of inner "kickstart" for her... Maybe she saw something in his nature that made her feel drawn to him too. What if he had not gotten off of that train when she did and then ended up going to the same place as he did too? OH my golly... talk about a twist of fate. It was almost as if it were "fore-ordained". Poor Richard was a sitting duck. (or was he a wild turkey? ha) So what is wrong with Ellen? Now this is where it gets really interesting for me. WAS she a homicidal NUTCASE before she met Richard or was she just a glutton for love and affection (because she had always been doted on by her father) to the point that it drove her over the edge to lose her dad.... I am thinking April is on to something about blaming the mom and dad... but I am not so hard on the mom. She may have been "shut out" by both Ellen and her husband. DID Ellen drive her dad over the edge to kill himself? (or worse.. did she kill him in a fit of jealousy?) I'm with you.. ha.. inquiring minds wanna know. ha. But more interesting to me is whether she drove a wedge between her mom and dad (and her mom and herself for that matter??) Or.... was her DAD the real perpetrator of it all.. .setting himself up as the king (or perhaps even a mini-god) in Ellen's life? Perhaps he RAISED her to worship him (and then she lost the center of her being when he died.) I wonder if Ellen really was HIS creation. Every parent likes to think of "passing a bit of themselves" on when a child is born. But perhaps when she was born he saw in Ellen a bit of his own "immortality"... and he loved HIMSELF more than her to the point that she became a little piece of himself to lavish his own love and affection on and possibly even worship a bit (again.. not because he saw HER... but himself in her) His reason for loving HER was not for herself, but because she was "his". And then as time went by, he raised and taught and "lovingly guided" her to worship him that way as well. Her value was not in being a lovely, accomplished, and strong young woman.. it was in being HIS daughter. I have seen parents who strive to make themselves the be all and end all of their children's lives. And while that is a natural thing when a kid is a baby.. or even a toddler, eventually a child's focus should move away from mom and dad, ever so slightly and (gasp... as much as it might break a mama's heart, ha) that is the way it is supposed to be. But what if Ellen's dad loved HIMSELF so much that he never let that progression go forward for her... and it became his own form of self worship to teach her to worship him? (is this making sense?) I am wondering if maybe she was taught to be "daddy's girl" to the nth degree... and when he died.. her "god" was gone and she was more or less left without anyone to worship but herself... because she WAS afterall... her father's daughter. And if she couldn't worship HIM anymore.. she could still worship "his" traits and "his" personality" that were still a part of her character. So the cycle of "whacky" just went a bit further for her. Why does Richard invite her family up to "Back of the Moon" anyway? Is he that clueless about how she feels? Poor Richard.. she more or less trapped him like a rabbit in a wooden box, didn't she? He got just a little nibble on that carrot and then, whammo... she pulled that stick and the box came down right on him. But he was a SAD replacement for her father. (which I firmly believe was her only real attraction to him) And there was no way he could even comprehend her warped view of what it means to "love" somebody so "consumingly" that you shut out EVERYONE and EVEYTHING else. And he certainly did not WANT to be "loved" that way. (like her father likely had) He was just an "average guy" with a normal view of love and support for family (so yes.. I do understand why he invited Ruth and Mrs. Berent to join them.. he THOUGHT he was bringing who he thought were her loved ones to visit and keep her company while he was busy on his book.. he really was clueless about what Ellen really wanted) And re:Danny... yes. I am with Miss Maven on that one. I think she was only helping him to walk to get out from under any obligation she thought her husband might have to him. If he could walk.. and get shipped off to school.. he would not be the stone around their necks that she perceived him to be, anymore. And then Richard would be free to focus soley on her again... which meant he would be totally HERS as well. Just the two of them... that is all she really wanted and it was the only focus for her. Also what is the deal with changing her father's study into a nursery? Was that a not so subtle move by Mrs Berent to try and replace Ellen's obsession with her father to maybe a more healthy focus on her new baby. Did any of them really think that would make her happy? You may be on to something with the Mrs. Berent angle.. maybe it was a "not so subtle" move.. but then again.. I am still thinking that Richard (and Ruth and the mom) maybe really were still "clueless". Even though the mom knew Ellen and how deep the twisted bond between her husband and daughter ran (and no.. I am not suggesting it was "that" sort of twisted... just twisted in a "psycho" sort of way) I am still thinking she did NOT really comprehend how DEEPLY awful Ellen was (or would become) when the "sactuary" or perhaps "shrine" of her father's study would be removed like that. If Ellen was already over the edge by then (because it is clear she was due to her murder of Danny) then this was like taking her "BEYOND the edge of the edge and pushing back over it all again" It was like "The EDGE... on steroids". haven't even mentioned Jeanne Crain's Ruth or that ending courtroom drama I will look forward to it, sir. Post us some more LOVELY screencaps too, if you please!!! :-) PS: Jackie.. THANKS for making this point.. what woman wouldn't want to get rid of her husband's relatives when you are first married? What woman isn't jealous of her hubby's career at some point in time? All these things are pretty normal feelings..... but how she acts on them is the part that's interesting That is one of the things that took this film from just being your average tale about a "manipulative" self loving woman.. into some sort of pyschotic roller coaster ride. HOW she reacts to what should be "normal" emotion tells the real story.

Woo hoo, Mr. Madhat!! I am glad to hear you'll be walking with us on this one! Ya little basketball junkie!! Ha. (I am picturing you and the Shiftless one holed up in some sports bar dancing a happy dance everytime your team makes a basket and then throwing stale popcorn at the tv screen when they miss a shot. ha... what can I say.. I have an overactive imagination sometimes. ha) PS.. I never got a chance to say it, but I enjoyed your comments on the Killers. (Kitty is innocent.. YEAH right!!) OH that one still gets me... ha I will look forward to hearing your thoughts on Evil Ellen. :-)

Yay.... I just did a quick google and Cluny is a youtube... I have NO clue when I will get the time to watch... but reading even just a portion of all of this is telling me I will have to figure it out. OH wowsa. (good golly.. I just get ONE movie crossed off my wanna see list in time to add another!!) sigh... But I will try and make time soon. (but may not be able to until the weekend) But thanks for bringing this one to my attention folks. I will look forward to it.

Hiya Ms Favell... thanks for posting the lovely pics of Ms Tierney. The first one (where she is waking him up by blowing in his ear) made me almost wish I was going to be able to like her. She was so playful. And smirky little smile was almost "innocent". (which was so at odds with her because nobody but the camera could see it... she wasn't putting on a show with that grin. So that makes it all the more tragic that she was so DOGGONE evil by the end of it all) She was such a contridiction for me at first. Headstrong is one thing... even perhaps arrogant and manipulative could be tolerated somewhat if she never meant anyone any harm. Because again, she really had some very likeable moments (like early on in the story on the train and in the scene I just mentioned that you posted the pic of) But OH ME, it did not take long for THOSE happy little moments to go south once her REAL personality rose to the surface. PS: Miss Maven... You are right... ha. The courtroom drama part was TOO little of the story to make TOO big a stink over it.. ha. It really is a very small criticisim when there is so much that is GOOD about the rest of the movie. And also PS... that WAS a gorgeous horse, wasn't it. PSS Miss G... they LAUGHED??? Oh golly.. I would have been there screaming right along with you. That is one of the best scenes in the whole movie for crying out loud. (oh golly) I will look forward to hearing more from you gals soon. RE: the music.. I went back in to youtube and gave it a listen again... those drums.. .OH ME. They just sort of drive the whole thing home. It is almost a conflict of themes going on.. it ends up sounding almost regal... alluring... tragic... and threatening all at the same time... way cool. Here is a link to youtube #1 for Leave Her to Heaven (for anyone who wants to watch the film) but also just to get the music on here. Even if you have seen the film, give a listen to that opening theme. I say again... way cool. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1XVJMhl2Vk&feature=related Edited by: rohanaka on Apr 5, 2010 10:22 PM

OH yeah.. ha. Thanks for reminding me of that... the minute I saw it was Vincent, I said, "Now why doesn't her lawyer jump up and demand he "recuse" himself.. (or do you have to be a judge or juror to be "recused? I have NO idea. ) At the very least he should have claimed the DA's former relationship w/ the deceased was a conflict of interest, or made him prejudicial... or SOMETHING. He just kept sitting there saying, "No questions". Now THERE'S some fancy lawyerin' for ya. ha. Oh golly.. I am too much of a L & O junkie....

Hello my Noir-ish friends. May I take you for a walk? You know for some time now, I have had my infamous, much talked about, ever growing, and fairly busting at the seams *Wanna See List*. And I have to confess I have added more titles to that list in the last two or three years than I can even count (just from hanging around all of you folks). And fortunately for me, I have also been able to cross off NUMEROUS films on that list in the last year or so, as well. (thanks to the help of some of you keeping me on my toes with the TCM schedule.. and also by some lucky finds at the library and on youtube. One particular film that I am happy to say is "officially" crossed off and viewed now is ... (drum roll please) *Leave Her To Heaven* (woo hoo!) First, let me just say, OH my goodness me, oh my. Watta movie! And what a truly delightfully AWFUL and evil gal that Ellen was. WOW! I spent half the time just so "in awe" of her beauty and the other half of the time wanting to rip her rotten little heart out. ha. Boy, she really was something else! (did I mention wow?) And OH me, what a gorgeous use of color in this film as well. I heard a commentator say that this film is considered by some to be one of the first "color" noirs. And while I am no authority on that sort of thing, I will just say good golly what a lovely sight to behold. Not only was Gene just drop dead gorgeous (no pun intended) but the LANDSCAPE and scenery were just awe inspiring! And I could fairly feel the cool mountain breeze in my hair near the beginning of the film when they all got out of that car to go into the ranch for the first time. Breathtaking. Another area I want to comment on was the use of music. That main theme... It was just so GRAND. Oh wow. How attention getting was that? The best use of the music for me was up on the top of that hill when they are all on horseback and Ellen is riding around spreading her late father's ashes. Oh golly, that driving rhythm with those drums and the pounding notes... again I can only say, breathtaking. Now I also have to confess that if I have any real serious criticism at all it would be the courtroom scenes and the quick "wrap up" at the end of the trial. I think the biggest problem for me was I likely have seen too many episodes of Law and Order, HA. I kept waiting for Ruth's lawyer (the guy telling the story) to jump up and object as the DA kept grilling her like that about was she in love with Cornel Wilde. And then when Cornel comes up with his big bombshell at the end, I kept waiting for Vincent Price to ask the judge to have his testimony stricken from the record.. ha. It was uncorroborated testimony... or maybe he was presenting facts not in evidence, or SOMETHING. ha. (yeah right.. listen to me.. like I know what I am talking about.. ha) All I know is that WHATEVER he was doing with that outburst of "the real story" no present day TV District Attorney would have stood for it, ha. So that to me seemed a bit too "quick" and convenient for me. But I digress.. ha. At any rate, with all that aside... I think this film was absolutely every bit as good as I had hoped for and am REALLY glad to have gotten to see this much talked about performance by Ms Tierney. I have heard many of you mention her in this role on several occasions, and all I can say is... you didn't even come close to describing how amazingly EVIL she was... (DID I mention wow???? ha.) I hope that some of you with whom I have chatted on this film before will chime in and tell me more about your favorite parts of this movie and give me your perspectives. And I have a few more things I might want to add later, myself, but for now I will just say again.. Watta movie! :-)

Talk to the Snail Been there, done that, wrote a book about it, had it made into a sitcom, and Dick Van Dyke played me! :-) (PS, cool thread, little lady. I see I have a lot of reading to do!) :-)

As for being logged off and my name still showing up, I don't think it's done that since before the last two updates here, so that's no longer a problem. It happened to me about a week or so ago. (if it happens again, I will do as you suggested, Renee)

Congrats on the 9000, Miss Maven!!! :-) Cake for everybody!!!! (woo hoo!)

I have not noticed that problem for myself before, but I have seen it happening for others (who I did not realize were online and then, suddenly, there are several posts for them) However, I have logged OFF before only to find out that my name was still showing on the list (long after I had been logged off) no matter how many times I refreshed the page. (And it did not always go away after I tried logging back in and logging off a second (or even a third) time to try and remove it.) It's a whacky little world around here sometimes, aint it??? :-) Edited by: rohanaka on Mar 30, 2010 12:10 PM

Bronxie says (regarding Molo's mention of his Aunt Daisy): Did you have to take her to the Piggley-Wiggley? Molo replies: No, Now this I don't get. Rohanaka butts in and blabs: PS: GO watch Driving Miss DAISY and all your Piggly Wiggly questions will be answered. Ha!!! Madhat... See what you started!! It's a whole Piggly Wiggly mandate now. Now not only do you have to go watch Miss Daisy.. but also Fried Green Tomatoes... and Bonnie and Clyde... and then you have to go drive around and find out if there are any Piggly Wiggly stores left to shop in... and write a letter to the editor about pc pig ad campaigns... you better get busy, son.. you have a LOT to do. HA! (this is what he gets, folks, for staying away so long)

OH wow... April what a great perspective you are bringing in to MDC, little missy. (woo HOO!!) > {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote} > I underline "contrast" in your post because that's one other aspect of the way the movie's story is told that hits me. Everything seems to have a duality or contrasting element. Boiled down and simplified, it's the "wildness" contrasted with what I'll just call "civility" or the tamed. That duality is in so much of Ford's work, as it was in the man. I love all the info and insight you have on Ford. And I think he must have been one of the more "personalized" filmmakers of that day... meaning that he put so much of his OWN personality and thought and emotion into his films. And I love your thoughts and comments on Doc. You have really just drawn out all the details on his inner personality. > He looks neither angry nor sad, just remote and rather distanced from any emotional reaction. And yet he's the wildest and most explosive character in the movie. More contrast and duality. He was wild. And (yet looked so "unwild" on the outside.Remote and distanced are the right words. Almost quietly resolved that he was nearing the end of his existance and he was pondering his own mortality. It was like we were getting to see his outward expression of all his innermost thoughts not by the wildness.. but more by those "dead calm" moments. RE: why he was there in Tombstone instead of back East: > I feel like it's something more, too, because he tells Clem that his illness is not behind his fleeing from the East. I wonder if he's just a tormented man I think you may have it.. but also I think here is a part of the puzzle too: > The wildest westerner is in fact, an Easterner and a product of a civilized, educated background. Perhaps he was just born in the wrong place. He may have TRIED to fit in that civilized, educated world all his life and realized it just was not really HIM.. and the west was more REAL to him. And also.. I just wanted to add that I always took it that his illness came after he left the East... and maybe he even felt like it was his "punishment" for leaving.. (oh.. and PS, Mr Movieman.. I think you have it right too.. he was likely feeling like a failure too) I don't know. I might be wrong and reading too much into it all... but that was my take. Anyway... what I trying to say is... he felt guilty for leaving Clem high and dry the way he did... and for "failing" those who must have had higher expectations for him so he felt like "he'd gotten what he deserved" in letting them all down. (again.. I may be wrong... but I can see him reflecting on all that as his body started to let HIM down over time. It is wrong thinking... but it could be what was on his mind) Thanks again for bringing more goodies to the table, little gal. Your rambling thoughts are always a delight! :-) (Oh.. and PS folks.. I'm with Miss G.. I hope there is more to read on Audie too. I have not seen that film, but have enjoyed the discussion)

Hello Friend Molo, :-) I think I'm in a lot deeper than Grimes this time! It will take me a while to dig myself out of this hole. Between the two of you... you've BOTH dug such a deep hole now, I think I can see China already. As for the glasses, well I can't hear. (nerve damage) I can't smell. (Chronic sinus problems) Now the eyes are going! (I sound like quite a catch don't I?) Well... I'd like to say age is only a number.. but sadly there is too much evidence against me on that one.. ha. What's next? I will only quote one of my dad's favorite novelty ball caps: "When your memory goes... FORGET it." HA!! :-) You didn't dis the OZ! Heavens.. if we did... we'd all have been called WHIPPERSNAPPERS for sure by that great big scary looking green head. HA!! One of my brothers watches a lot of films with me on the weekends. Mainly because he's just there, not because he really wants too. Anyway, when he stopped pointing out Burke as Glinda and got used to her showing up in various films, I figured his classic film credentials had jumped up a notch Ha.. I still get a kick out of seeing her in a movie. I never used to realize she had ever done ANYTHING other than wear that lovely pink dress and crown. ha. (And PS: I used to be the same way about Frank Morgan too.. "HEY.. that's the WIZARD!!) :-) What??? Your FAVORITE song, out of all the songs in that film, is If I were King of the Forest ? What's wrong with you? Well.... you likely do not have enough hours in your day for me to tell you the answer to that.. ha. But YES... I love that song. (although I do admit... seen through a grown up's perspective now, it does maybe seem a bit like a "filler" placed in that part of the story) Still... I am willing to forgive it all, ha. It just cracks me up so much. The Rockford Files was probably my favorite show when it was on. I thought Garner as Rockford was just too cool. I loved his whole attitude. I loved his cynical humor. I loved the trailer by the beach. I loved Noah Beery Jr. as Rocky. That was a great show. I have a lot of the seasons on DVD. I used to love just watching the opening intro. (the look on his face when he is in the grocery store buying the steak.. HA!.. I get that look myself sometimes) ha. I think I liked him so much because even though he was "cool" he was not perfect. He had a lot of "oops" moments and Iiked how he sometimes had to get himself out of messes that he either caused himself.. or someone like Angel or Rocky might have caused for him. Anyway... way back when, that show used to play M-F (but I can't recall if it came on just after the evening news (you know.. way back when Johnny Carson was more or less the only talk show host on at night.. ha) or a little later.. any way, I used to just hang on the edge of my seat to watch that one everynight. And PS: TRF has got to have probably one of the coolest TV themesongs EVER.. maybe second only to Hawaii Five O. ha. (but since you don't like The King of the Forest.. ha.. you MIGHT not agree, since you obviously don't share my same musical taste... but then you said you can't HEAR so maybe THAT might explain your unappreciation of such a great Wizard of Oz classic!!) HA!!!!!!!!!! "To each his own" indeed!!! Ro says: Glad to see you back on the board, sir Molo responds: Are you sure? Ro replies: SURE I'm sure.. did you not just read the great SLAM that you set me up with a few lines above?? HA!! (Welcome back, kiddo!). :-) Oh and PS: GO watch *Driving Miss DAISY* and all your Piggly Wiggly questions will be answered. :-)

That show made me a Darren McGavin fan forever. (and then A Christmas Story came along and sealed the deal, for me too, ha)

MADHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (woo hoo!!) Long time NO see the Mad Hat name on the message board!!! So very glad to see you out and about sir. Glad to have you back among the crowd, my friend. OH and PS: I guess I will go put my rope back in the FREEZER now... because well... if you had not shown up soon, you were only days away from being the honored guest at our next Neck Tie Party. Missed it by THAT much! ha. > {quote:title=molo14 wrote:}{quote} > I have a nicely refurbished computer, named Gloria, and my first pair of reading glasses! I've had my computer for a few days but I had to avoid using it until I got the glasses. The headaches had become unbearable! I'm still trying to get used to them so if my post turns to gibberish you'll know I've either lost it completely or I just need more practice...or both. Ha.. a new Gloria AND new glasses too. You'll have a whole new outlook on life for sure. ha. (PS: Welcome to the "corrective lens crowd, too... I have been a charter member now for several years.. ha. I always joke with the QT that I hit forty.. and forty hit me back.. ha) > Ro, > I really liked your post on *The Wizard of Oz* and everyone's comments on it. It has been ages since I watched the film all the way through but I feel like I know it by heart. Still, your screencaps brought up so much that I never noticed before. Thanks, sir. I love finding new things to like about an old favorite like this one. Glad you picked up on some new stuff too. > Now I, like so many others, remember this airing once a year on television back before cable and DVD's or even videotape. There was never any question what the the TV would be tuned to that evening. I was the youngest, so I was the last holdout. My older siblings would usually watch too. We waited for certain scenes like the house landing, and the lollipop guild song, and the flying monkeys. I don't know at what age I stopped lying on the living room floor in front of the old Sylvania console watching it intently from start to finish. I imagine it was a gradual process. I wonder if mom was sad the first time it came on and none of us kids were around to watch it. I bet she was. I can tell you that some of the kidlings favorite little "kiddie" shows that she used to love (but has since outgrown still make me "misty" just thinking about how much she enjoyed them when she was little. (ha) The day she ever "outgrows" OZ (even if only temporarily) will be a day I bust out bawling for sure. But I like that this is a film that even if you get too old (say as a teen) where it loses a little "luster" for a time... once you see it again after several years of NOT seeing it... those fond memories will just come flooding back. It truly is a classic in ever sense of the word. > The film does a wonderful job exploring the dreams and fears of childhood. The idea of escaping and the adventure of running away mixes wonderfully with our fears of losing our home, our parents, our place and our sense of where we belong. These are concepts that weigh on the mind of most kids. They certainly did for me anyway. The biggest hook in the film for me is Dorothy's fear of losing Toto. That's what starts the ball rolling. The idea of anyone taking my dog away scared me to death. My dog depended on me. I was his protector, and we protected each other. It's one of the few responsibilities a kid first senses.Losing a pet is often the first real loss a kid faces. I could relate to Dorothy's fears and I was with her all the way in trying to find a place to escape with Toto. OH wow... when Miss Gulch goes after Toto.. ha. that used to make me SO mad. ha. (but not so scared..ha) But one thing I DID used to be afraid of as a very young kid was of getting "lost" or of being away from my parents for too long of a time. And I always remember that I felt so worried when Dorothy wants to go home... and the baloon floats away. It was always such a relief to see Glinda's little pink bubble show up just at the right moment, ha. > This was another thing that really scared me as a kid. That tornado! Wow! With Bolger yelling out: It's a twister, it's a twister. We don't get many in these parts, but still, I knew they existed and to this day a tornado warning really scares me and excites me all at the same time. It has to be the greatest tornado sequence ever filmed. I had never really seen or heard much about a Tornado other than this film until I was in about the 4th grade or so.. We lived in Alabama at the time (at Ft Mc Clellan) and and then I remember they had a tornado come near us one day while we were at school and all of us kids had to go out in the hall and cover our heads with our hands. It was a little scary, as I recall, and then I remember thinking about that moment again the next time I watched The Wizard of Oz (probably that same year) and then I got scared all over again, ha) > The only thing I never cared for, and the only thing that slows down the film is the cowardly lion's song If I were King of the forest. OH say it isn't SO!!! (that is just about my most favorite song in the whole thing.. ha. The kidlingl loves it too. We go around here singing it all the time! She is a RIOT trying to imitate his voice.. especially when it comes to the part where he says, "Mah... aha ha ha ha... aw-narch". What a crack up! ha. > Now, I must comment on *Heat Lightning* and get down to the noir thread, I hear someone sent out an APB! I have a lot of catching up to do! I hope my eyes hold out! WOO hoo... I will look forward to hearing your thoughts on THAT one. It really was quite a film, wasn't it?? PS... I LOVED those old 70's detective shows (and I was a night owl too.. (I know.. big surprise,ha) but usually only got to be a practicing one during summer vacation, ha) I was not TOO keen on Barnaby Jones, but I did like Ironside, and I absolutely ADORED The Rockford Files. OH wow. OH... and I L-O-V-E loved Kolchak, The NightStalker. But BOY did it give me the chills sometimes. ha. When it came to the scary parts, I think this show must have been where I perfected my infamous "Right hand at an angle over both eyes" routine. ha. That way, I could still watch the top right portion and the lower left portion of the tv screen, and since MOST of the scary stuff happens in the middle.. I was safe. ha. :-) Glad to see you back on the board, sir. :-)

Thank you for being clear (even while not choosing to clarify) Having read through this thread, I think that you have told me all I really need to know. And I think we both likely understand one another already. (and perhaps that will sound judgemental.... but I don't believe either of us will lose any sleep over it) Please do not feel compelled to answer this post as I am happily removing myself from the conversation.