rohanaka

Hiya Ms Favell... Love that Dean Stockwell. :-) What sweet pics you have posted (especially the earliest ones). What a cutie..ha. I never recalled seeing him in anything until Quantum Leap... and then I started realizing he had this WHOLE OTHER resume too. ha. I always liked him in The Secret Garden. Ha.. the last time that was on... the kidling watched with me.... and when he and little Margaret start yelling it up.. ha... the kidling put her hands over her ears and said.. "Those children need to stop screaming like that, or they will get a time out!!" Ha.. my bossy little busy body. I wonder where she gets it. ha.

You are going to eat your cherry pie AND LIKE IT. THANK you Jackie for saying that. He's had so much saur kraut and sawdust... he just doesn't know what real food tastes like anymore. Ha. PS folks... VERY interesting conversation... (ha.. I just realized what I wrote... interesting AND fascinating !! ha) Anyway... I really mean it!! ha.. I have not been able to read back through all of it yet... and have NOT had any time at all lately to watch Impact... but wow.... what I have read so far.. you folks have given me a lot to think about. Carry on, kids!! :-)

Hello there Mr. Hatfield (ha.. aren't YOU the one who always says you are a gentleman?? ha) So your mom's side is the evil one, eh? Maybe I'm related Ha.. yes.. you are the long lost nephew of my evil twin half cousin.. ha. (oh gee.. now I will have to say hello to you at the family reunion... ) I'm not so sure. Grey! Woohoo Oh brother....( I mean.. oh long lost nephew) That actually gets me, too. Just don't tell anyone. Ha... your secret (you know.. the secret about how you get all emotional and broken up when Ethan hugs Debbie and takes her home... that secret.. yeah.) is safe with me!! ;-) And that scene wouldn't work unless we, the audience, were unsure of what Ethan would do. He tried to kill her himself but Marty stopped him. Then he said he didn't care about Debbie's fate, only Marty did. So here we are at the climax, wondering, will he give her a chance? Oh golly... that 's it in a nutshell... and now I am boo-hooing just sitting here thinking about it. And PS.. don't ask APRIL to tell you how it ends in the BOOK. (But then again, You'd probably like it, Mr. I hate happy endings) I just rewatched Stagecoach and I came away believing Hatfield was a sincere gentleman when it came to the "ladies." His covering up a girl with his jacket led me to think this. I think you have him right.. especially when it came to "ladies"... women or girls he thought of as being respectable. Do you think he would have covered up someone like Dallas??? Now that is a harder one for me to answer. So was Ethan's decision to kill Debbie premature? Had he given her a real chance? Ethan and Hatfield were basically jumping to conclusions. Wrong conclusions No.. I was talking about Hatfield's choice being premature... Ethan had all the time in the world to study and thinnk over his choice.. but still they both ended up being mistaken... and fortunately fate stepped in and stopped both of them, if you think about it. PS Little Scotchie... You talked with him for two and a half hours???? Have you two picked out a china pattern yet??

Helllooooooooo Mr. Grey... You know more about him than everyone else! Ha.. maybe he is my evil twin half cousin on my mother's side.. ha. I partially agree. At the outset, Ethan was all about getting Debbie back. You are right about that. I should have said it a little plainer. At the beginning.. she was just a tiny thing and he was trying to save her. And you are also right that as time goes by he is more about going after Scar... but I also think he wanted to find her too. (and not to save her then) It was Marty who never gave up on Debby. Marty is not only the one who rescues Debby, but I also think he rescues Ethan... in a way. All true. And I think Debbie rescues Ethan as well... or his love for her does. The minute he sees her... REALLY sees her.. oh golly.. that is still one of the most powerful film moments I can ever recall. I love that scene so much and it is THE moment for me in that film. "Let's go home..." OH me.. .where's the kleenex... It's very similar to Hatfield (John Carradine) looking to mercy kill Lucy (Louise Platt) in Stagecoach. He rather kill her then let the Apache kill her. But Ethan and Hatfield end up being wrong. That scene in Stagecoach always gets me. It sickens me to think that he was taking her life into his hands that way (with a newborn baby right there in the same stage coach with them) but I also see his motivation and he was trying to be the gentleman maybe that he always wished he had been. It was perhaps an "honorable" motivation... but not the right choice either... and even if it HAD been (which I say again it was not) it was WAY too premature... the stage was still moving and the had not gotten down to the "last man" yet. Anyway.. as I said.. that scene always gets me.. ha. Talk about FATE. A split second's difference and he'd have had a LOT to explain when the Cavalry guys showed up...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! (WAS his name Klaus?? ha. I was just being a smart mouth!! ha)

ha.. I just figured out.. your first line was from THAT movie wasn't it???? ha. Do you realize how LONG it has been.. It's been so long since it came out... I am not even sure I have even SEEN it. ha I always confuse it with Spys Like Us... ha. (I know.. I am hopeless) ha.

Ha... maybe he is your Saur Kraut delivery guy....

She knows a little German Is his name Klaus?

I find it very interesting that you can talk about pretty much anything in this world and the conversation ends up leaning towards those movies Thank goodness it is those two films and not something else.. ha. Imagine if we had to say... "Sooner or later it all comes down to... TOP SECRET!!!". HA!! (Just doesn't have the same ring to it, does it??????) :-) PS... friendly and sweet are always higher on the list for me than gorgeous and dimples.. ha. But its nice to have all of the above! :-)

Little T.. sounds like you are making new friends. ha. (cute ones at THAT!) :-) And PS.. you and Chris are both right. Sooner or later.. it doesn't matter what we are jabbering about... it all comes down to The Searchers and/or TMWSLV. (And I personally don't see that as a bad thing. Ha.) Two seperate movies... with completely different characters and themes... and yet somehow very often relevant in some way or another to a lot of the other films we discuss here on a regular basis. (As a Western/Duke/Ford fan... aint I the lucky one that no matter what genre I am jabbering about, sooner or later I can still end up talking about all three of my favorites too. ha) :-)

But keep in mind... OH SURE... you had to go and bring THAT up. ha. But you are right... And he did have that mindset all the way up to the very end... but I do believe he was only doing it out of the same sort of emotion that COULD have led him to "search" all those years for a comletely OTHER reason (as in: to rescue her) and likely would have had he not been so consumed by his hatred of the comanche. The longer things went on (and ON) the more driven he became to put an end to it his way. And I think Ethan stuck with it for so long because of who she was and because of what had been done to his family. If Debbie had been just some OTHER kid... from some other family.. and if it had not been Martha and Aaron... and their family who were murdered, I don't think he'd have spent all those years out there like that. Oh sure... he wanted to get Scar... but it would not have been the same sort of search for him without the family connection.. and I don't think he'd have been so committed almost to the point of insanity had Debbie been somebody else. And what I find intriguing is that I guess you could say the same things about Marty as well... because all those things I just mentioned were the same reasons HE was there as well... they were both working all those years from the same motivation... but only from a different point of view. And to me, (don't miss this Grey Dude.. ha.) that was absolutely one of the most fascinating :-) aspects to the whole story. Ethan really believed he was doing right by Martha (AND by Aaron) .. and most importantly by Debbie too (whom he clearly loved... and yet in a way had come to hate) In his mind, death was the better alternative for her than being where she was. It was mixed up logic, but it was what he really believed. (And PS... ha. Sorry for the detour.. ha. All of that was just extra blabbage, folks... did not mean to lead you down a rabbit trail... Please go on w/ the Aaron/Ethan compare and contrast. You folks have all given me a lot to think about it. I am not sure where I come down on Aaron exactly. I don't think I have ever viewed any of it (in it's entirety) the way you folks have been talking about it... but it is likely because I never gave him as much thought as I should have. You have given me a lot to think about. Next time I watch I will keep in mind all the stuff you have been saying and see how it all fits together. Thanks folks.

Most of the time, Ford sees evil as something within us or within the institutions we create, not as a "bad guy out there" Wow, Ms Favell... nice job in breaking down the Ford villians like that. I really enjoyed your entire post. And have to say that you have got a really sound perspective on what makes all those "baddies" (ha) tick. Well thought out, young'un. In fact... you alll are giving me some good insight into the deeper recesses of Fordian villainy. Thanks folks. PS: Mr. Grey... But, you are right, many times, the villain within a Ford film is the lead character's own issues or society. This is why I like Ford. He's complex. It's hardly ever a straightforward "white hat, black hat." The white hat can be just as messed up (or more so) as the black hat Oh golly... this is an interesting and fascinating development. (ha) For all my black and white ways.. I have to agree with you. It does seem to be a prevalent theme in a lot of his films.. (gulp.. NOW what am I going to do... I have no mud to throw this time...)

I would love to see a good chat on Impact.... It has been on my list a while, and I just looked it up on youtube... and it looks like a "walk worthy" choice for sure. Don't know if I will get a chance to watch it by the time you are ready to chat or not... but PLEASE do "start walking" anytime, ladies. And I will jump in if I can (PS: Gals... don't wait on me for OOTP. Who KNOWS if the library will have it or not. They don't always have what I want, but they can sometimes order it in, so we will see what happens. I will let you know if I find it or not)

Wow... He is liking our beloved Victor even more now??? That IS impressive. :-) I guess we won't have to throw him in the guardhouse afterall. Maybe one day I can try to do the same with Once Upon a Time in the West. Oh, dear! Now let's not take this thing TOO far, Goddess.... he will start to think that he can get GUILT us into doing things like that... and then he really WON'T be fit to live with. HA!!!! (PS... if you DO rewatch it let me know... I will loan you a case of my Pepto!!)

Hello there, little missy... you have made some huge strides in your walk on the noir side Well.. I HOPE I have it right.. because I do think her entire part in that set up w/ Obrien was just that.. a set up. And I also think she worked with Jim to set Ole up too... along w/ all the others in the gang. (And as for the "dialogue" I wrote... ha.. well.. I have an overactive imagination, sometimes, ha. But can't you just hear them saying that??) ha. I confess that scenario always had me confused. I didn't know exactly who was double crossing (or triple crossing!) who but now I can see it was even dirtier than I thought. You are right, parts of that whole "who's double crossing whom" stuff is confusing... Kitty had me a bit confused for a while... in that restaurant... telling the "I'm married, blah blah blah" story... I did not REALLY think she was "reformed" but I was not sure if she was on the level about everything she was saying in her flashback or not... but then later when everything played out and I found out Big JIM was her husband.. I wondered if they had not been married all along.. or at least soon after the got all that money. Anway.. it really does seem to me that she never really was anything but a little opportunistic money grubber... PS Mr. Grey: But I've been chatty! That's true.. but it's not how MUCH you've been tallking... it's WHAT you've been saying that will get you on the wrong end of the rope!!

Hi there Miss Maven, I totally forgot that Kitty planned this WITH Big Jim. So he pimped her out to do this double-cross Yes... oh yes, he did. (or she "pimped" herself.. it all depends on how you view the answer to your next question... You think she broached Big Jim with this, or did Big Jim propose it to her and her kitty-kat mind just lapped up the idea And I am not sure what that answer is.. but they were definitley in cohoots. Wait-a-cotton-pickin? minute? So are you guys saying that that was probably all an act in the hotel room: ?Touch me and you won?t live ?till morning!???????? That from there Kitty and Colfax set up the Swede? I don't know if the whole "touch me, and etc" thing was an act.. but it may well have been. It may have made Kitty seem more in need of "help" from Ole... or at least it made her seem less "Jim's" girl. I think they wanted to keep Ole under the false impression that she was there for HIM, not for Jim. (and again... it really does go to show how duped he was... because I don't think he'd really have fallen in with their plans had it not been because Kitty was there... it was almost like Jim told her... (or depending on the "pimp' angle... she thought of it herself) "Hey Kitty... go sit on that bed and "pose" so that when Ole walks in, you are THE first thing he sees... he will be so tongue tied and crosseyed, when he sees you there, we'll have him right where we need him". And that is just what happened... He took the bait, hook, line and sinker. There was NO way Ole was going to listen to Charlston when the older man tried to talk him into geting out... it was too late once he opened that door. He was too hypnotized by the sight of Kitty.. and her sweater. Wasn?t she just the perfect femme fatale? Well, yes.. she WAS that... but... Isn?t there a caveat emptor clause we can throw Miss Kitty? She never pulled the trigger on anyone. Dum-Dum kills Blinkey; Colfax and Dum-Dum gun each other down...and the Killers blast Ole to Kingdom Come She may never have pulled the trigger on anyone directly.. but when she went to that restuarant with OBrien, she was not there for any other reason than to set the ball in motion.. she was the "domino tipper". She got up to go "powder her nose" and told Obrien to wait for her there, knowing full well what (or who) was walking in the door as she went. She left that insurance guy sitting there and was thinking happy thoughts that she was about to be rid of him and his nosey questions... I doubt it ever entered her mind that anything would go wrong. (And PS.. going back to the "she never pulled the trigger" question.. I imagine she also knew all about Ole's death too... and even if she did not give the order... I bet she likely agreed that Big Jim should get rid of him.. he knew WAY too much. I can just hear her hashing it over with him.. "We have to make sure he keeps that big dumb yap of his shut, but good!" So is it wrong for a gal to throw her lot in with the Alpha male? Ha.. well... given her personality... she would likely not have it any other way. PS Perhaps this is why some feel ?OUT OF THE PAST? is the better film noir, or at the very least...works better. Mitchum takes a car ride and tells his tale in flashback. By the time he pulls up to his destination at Kirk Douglas? Tahoe retreat, we (the audience) are caught up to speed and the rest of the story takes place in real noir time. Ok.. you folks have just pushed me over the edge.. ha. With all this talk on here, and me looking it up in the TCM database.. and viewing the trailer, etc.. I HAVE to see this film now. ha.. I will head to the library TOMORROW and see if I can find this one. (for once I DID try to find it on youtube first... but no luck) Let's keep our fingers crossed for the library and see what happens. :-) PSS Jackie.. I forgot about the "two days"... she did take her time hurrying back home. ha.

Hello Mr. Boring!!! Oh, wait. You ain't talkin' Who me?? The "mouth" that roared???? ha... To quote the Duke: THAT'LL be the day!!! That's how I took it. I think that's why I thought she liked Big Jim more, because she could have took off with Ole and the money, if she wanted to. But then I thought about it and I've come to believe she only "liked" Big Jim more because he was more powerful and better off in life than The Swede. That's it exactly. I think she knew Ole was "small potatoes" compared to Big Jim and she only wanted the "best" when it came to what men could give her.... especially money and all it's trappings. Ole was just the "dumb lug" they used to help carry the loot and she might have had a physical attraction to him, but she was more about the money. I also think she was just wicked and LIKED the fact that she was playing Ole for a fool as much as she liked the "thrill of the kill" in seeing him get used. A typical woman Oh, that's how all of us men end with you women. You can't wait until we're gone Haven't you had ENOUGH of a beating these past few days already??? I swear... the way you talk, you'd think you actually MISSED not having that frozen rope around your neck... I'm with ya. That's no fun. Let's talk about exciting and boring Ha... now THAT would be interesting.. and FASCINATING!!!

Hiya Mr. Grey Kitty is basically shacking up with whatever man she can get the most out of. When Big Jim is in the klink, it's The Swede. And when it's The Swede behind bars, she's back with Big Jim. Kitty was only using both men for what she could get from them at the time... but what made her REALLY awful with me is that she use Big Jim at Ole's expense. (at least when it came time to hit the hat factory) She was working WITH Big Jim to get over on Ole (and I don't think she'd have done the same with Ole to get over on Big Jim. (or maybe I am wrong... but that is what I am recalling) I think Kitty was an "equal opportunity monster" when it came to who she would use. It more or less boiled down to whatever side her bread was buttered on at the time. I actually thought she liked Big Jim (Albert Dekker). Did she love him? Probably not. She was worried about her own hide more than anything else. I think she preferred Big Jim to Ole but not because she loved him more... but rather because he was a better "bad guy" and could get her what she really wanted... more "stuff" for Kitty! Because I don't think she ever loved anyone but herself. And I think poor old Jim had the worst "ending" of all... laying there on the stairs and coming to the eye opening moment... as she rushes to his side... and seeing that Kitty cared NOTHING for the fact that HE was dying... all she wanted was for him to bail HER out of trouble. What a way to go.

welcome to the Bogie Lancaster Fan Club. Ha... that sounds like a club for people w/ trenchcoats and good hair. (HA) :-) but thanks!!! :-) You have to spend time with a person to see that they?re people...human. Maybe that?s what the flashbacks prevented according to other ambling ramblers. That could be a part of the equation. I think in general, flashbacks can be a good way to tell a story sometimes.. but usually just a PART of the story. I like them in small doses. I sort of wish we could have seen a bit MORE of Ole's story as it was actually unfolding ( instead of just the beginning of the movie (and then end for him). Because other than those moments when he is about to meet his maker, and the fateful end of all his accomplices (including Kitty's downfall too) we are more or less left with interviews of the people who knew Ole's story, and a few inconsequential moments in the insurance office here and there for "real time' storyline in the film. All we ever get to find out about Ole, other than "he did something wrong, once" is really only "hearsay" told by a third party. And his story was so compelling and tragic, I wanted to know him better. I think if THAT much of the story had been going to rely on flashback, I'd have liked it better if it had been more or less told just by one person... mabye Kitty in some sort of police confessional, and do the whole thing maybe in one long flashback (like Liberty Valance). But THEN we'd have had a lot fewer scenes with the editor of the Shinbone Star (wow, was THAT a surprise when I figured out they were the same guy... golly.) So... I guess the way it ended up was not so bad as it COULD be.. but I do think if the film had one drawback, at least for me, the "flashback" thing was not entirely the best way to go. But that is just my opinion... and as I like to say.. ha.... nobody is paying ME the big bucks to make that movie.. so WHO am I to say??? ha. I was thinking that Ole laid there waiting to die b?cuz he knew deep down he did something wrong. I think Ole laid there waiting to die b?cuz he didn?t have the courage to kill himself That's pretty much what I finally came to figure out (after I got through the whole story) When he tried to jump out of the window... the little cleaning lady stopped him... and he "survived" but really... he was already dead inside at that moment... his body just had to catch up with him.

And rohanaka, I know we've talked before about how you want to revisit it, I think you said you had seen it once upon a time. I just know you would like it Little gal, I have only seen portions of it.. YEARS and years ago. (some of the middle and part of the ending) and I did not even know what I was watching when it was on.. and have NEVER come across it since. (alas) But I DO recall how MEAN and awful our dear Ms Bondi was... what a shocker for me.. ha. I had not seen TOTC yet when I saw the bit of SOTH so long ago..ha. So it really got my attention how WITCHY she really was. I had NEVER seen her like that before. I will be waiting on the edge of my seat to read eveyone's posts .. I will enjoy your screencaps too. It will be the next best thing to being there. :-) THANKS Mr. Movieman for bringing this one up here. (and PS, I do recall the scenery too.. and I don?t know if was the Ozarks or not.. but I have been to the Ozarks.. on more than one occasion, and it IS every bit that beautiful.)

it was me that started all this, ha! Because I do find ALL of Fort Apache exciting HA!!! So it was YOU!!! ha. :-) OH no..ha.. say it aint SO!! ha. Now he will not be fit to live with... ha. KIDDING... only kidding!!! :-) (ha.... and PS I am WAY so very WAY with you on Sly and that Terminator guy.. ha... at least for the most part.... there is too much blood and guts with VERY little point to all that "excitement" ha.) Dang! And Dadgum TOO!! :-)

he's maimed, and doesn't know it.... just like later his heart is maimed by Kitty and he doesn't even realize he's being played by her Hiya Ms. Favell.... I like what you are saying here. He really was clueless on both counts. And again.. it makes him all the more sympathetic because you can't help but feel sorry for him... even though he more or less MADE his own bed and had to be shot in it (so to speak) PS... re: the music that Dragnet theme is a LOT more evident in the story than I even realized... ha. I really only noticed it the most in that big shoot out in the restaurant near the end.. but I also went back to watch the beginning.. I wanted to see the early diner scene again and I found it on youtube) "Da da dump dump" is ALL over that opening theme..ha And I LIKE it. :-) PS Miss G: He is very raw boned and conveys this feeling he's carrying a real load, and I don't think it's all just the girl. He seems to have no solid faith in himself unless others are praising him as a winner and he can flash and boast. We learn he lost his parents when he was just a boy and he does give the idea of a man who's never really had anything of his own to hold onto and believe in. A woman like Kitty can make mince meat of a guy like that. He doesn't act like a man who knows his own attraction, either, which I appreciate. He doesn't play Ole like he's as good looking as he really is, which is great. No, his self consciousness comes from a lack of ego, not too much of it and that is remarkable for Burt Lancaster's break through role when you think about it That's Ole (and Burt's performance) all over, little Missy. He (Ole) was ripe for the picking by the time he met up w/ Kitty and the gang. He had no clue that he wasn't the center of her world either. Somewhere near the end she or someone else makes a point of saying that all the other guys KNEW who's girl she really was...all of them but Ole. He never even DREAMED things were any other way than he thought they were until she left him high and dry and he realized he'd been double crossed. I kept wondering what would make a person just lay (or lie..ha. I still don't know which) there and wait for those two thugs to come and get him... and by the end of it all, I understood. Even IF the little lady who grabbed him by the pants pulled him back in from the window, he still fell HARD that night and never quite recovered. It just took him longer to die. And PS again (ha) thanks for the comment on OOTP too.. I will have to go back and look but it might be on the list I made way back at the beginning of all this when I was getting recommendations from everyone. I know I have looked it up before to see about it. I will make a point of looking again. :-)

Hello there, Miss Maven. I am glad to see this film is generating such a nice walk for us. It is a good stretch of the legs, so to speak. :-) I?m glad you gave Burt Lancaster a chance. I think we might all do well to give those actors and actress we?re not crazy about a chance. I am learning that lesson on a regular basis around here. It has widened my movie watching horizon. ha. (Except for Robert Donat What??? I like RD (in the few films I have seen him in.. ha. But I have yet to discover his ARMS (or was it his wrists?) yet... I heard about them though.. ha. Who here had said they were not fans of Bogart, and is now reconsidering him? Ha... that would be the girl wearing the tomato juice stains... ha. :-) Live and learn.. ha. Bogie and BLT's... I had no idea what I was missing!!! :-) When I first saw this film, I did not expect any from the diner to survive the night. Hell, why should they...they could be as easily rubbed out as ordering a steak sandwich. But with all the tension in that scene, that those guys survived almost feels like a plot twist It let those characters stand out a bit more that we cared what happened to them (though they were just on the screen for a few tense moments. And TODAY'S moviemakers likely WOULD have rubbed them out.. and not given us the chance to see them so humanly (like the scene you mentioned w/ the cook) they'd just be 3 passing victims in a string of violence nowdays. I like that they were PEOPLE in this film. Ole did seem to make some very bad decisions...he wanted to get rich quick. And threw in his lot with some berry bad men. And one l'il kitty kat who brought him down and shred his heart to smithereens Kinda sad, wasn't he? For all his physical strength, he was mentally (and emotionally) weak. And a lot more sympathetic because of his weak nature. Have you ever seen Lancaster in the great color noir: ?DESERT FURY??? Kitty on the bed will be mirrored in ?OUT OF THE PAST? when Kathie comes to the breakfast table in her lingerie. Have you ever seen that film, Ro? I haven't seen either of them (but I have head of OOTP before. I will have to go look both of them up and see what I've been missing. :-)

What is this, Pride and Prejudice?! Ha... YES... maybe... it is "P & P the Cavalry Years" ha. OH you.... I say again... you are ONE in a million.... enjoy the EXCITING ending.. and just try to think of the first part of the movie as.... intersting and fascinating. Maybe it won't be so.... boring!!!!! (I will be using those words against you for the next gazillion YEARS!!!!!) ha

Oh good gravy.. ha. Grey Guy... you are one in a million.. ha. Maybe you should give the QT the test. Go ahead and watch Fort Apache and ask him if he thinks the first two acts are "exciting." Ha.. funny you should say that.. the LAST time I watched this film (which was way back in the Spring when we rambled on it before) he walks in the room, sits down, sees what I am watching and says, "What? Another cowboy movie?" HA!!! But then he sat down and watched it with me and enjoyed it very much. (he had seen it before too) And no... he did not go on and on about how "exciting" it was... but I don't recall he called it boring either. If it's 100 degrees out and I go around telling everyone it's cold, I guess that means it's cold. Well first of all.. if it is 100 degrees and you think it is cold... where did you come from?? ha. The center of the EARTH?? ha. And second.. I am thinking that you are missing the POINT of what I said about perspectives. To continue with your example... the temperature IS what it is... that is the fact... whether you think it is too cold or too hot.. THAT is your perspective. How can you... Mr.GREY... be so black and white about all this??? We are talking about opinions... which vary from person to person. Not cold, hard, thermometer driven facts Is a tear-jerker like Now, Voyager or An Affair to Remember "exciting"? Is that how you would describe such a film to someone? No.. I would not describe them as exciting... but why would I want to???? When I said things depend on our perspective.. I was not really talking about whether I thought something was exciting.. I was talking about whether I MINDED if it was exciting or not.. or whether I thought it needed to be exciting for me to like it... whether or not it was "boring". To me, THOSE things are all dependant on perspective. I think that word "exciting" is our whole issue here. You may have said somewhere along the way that you did not find the first part of the film "exciting" and were bored with the story until the end.. and when people disagreed with you about the "boring" part.. you may have thought they were also saying you were wrong about it being un-exciting. (but I could be wrong about all that.. I might have to go back and re-read everything people have written. Did anyone else call the beginning of the film "exciting" or did folks just argue with you that it was "NOT boring"?) Because exciting is NOT the opposite of boring... and I think we have just discoved in both of our last posts.. that is what was happening... both those words were getting used that way. That's a good point. I have been linking the two, and I'm wrong to do so. A film that interests you or fascinates you isn't boring. Ha... we have a winner!!!! That is exactly the point I was referring to. THAT is what I mean about "perspective". So.. no... nowhere in my thoughts and musings on Fort Apache am I going to say (at least I HOPE I never did..ha) that I think the beginning of the film is exciting... so I concede your point... the first part of the film is not as exciting as the end. But I also say... who cares???? (other than you!! ha.. ) It doesn't have to be "exciting" to be good. And THAT is where we really differ. THAT is where the perspective angle comes in. I am not saying it is a matter of perspective whether it is exciting.. I am saying it is a matter of perspective if it MATTERS. The personal taste that I have.. that enjoys all the things you disliked about the beginning.. is the same sort of issue that leads YOU to say that you like all the things I find boring about 2001. And we are BOTH right about it all (at least from our own points of view) from the "subjective" part of the equation... How hot DOES it have to be to be hot??? (and yes... 100 degrees is WAY hot for me) but I would rather be hot THAT way.. than be at the center of the EARTH kinda hot... so THERE is your perspective) But you would tell me to sit in the corner and face the wall and say,"it's exciting No.. I wouldn't tell you it was exciting... but I WOULD tell you to go sit in the corner. (Ha) And when I'd say, "but, Aunt Ro, this is boring." You'd say, "well, that's just a matter of personal preference. Nope... wrong again... when you'd say "it's boring" I would say, "That's a tough break for you, isn't it? Life is not always going to BE exciting so you will have to get over it" (just ask the KIDLING about that one... ha. She HATES when I say that) (and NO.. I am not being MEAN... I am just saying.. life... and movies... don't always HAVE to be "exciting" all the time to be enjoyed. And I think you have agreed with me on THAT much.. so... I guess I won't make you stay in the corner TOO long. (not this time anyway) PS Chris... a little dust never hurt anyone.. ha (I have to believe that.. otherwise my whole house and practically my entire way of life would be just one big contradiction... ha)