rohanaka

Mrs. Unromantic OH brother... I make ONE little "comment" and... (ha... ok so it was longer than a "little comment'.. more like a LONG drawn out blab fest..ha.) Anyway... I am NOT unromantic... I am just... I don't know.. too demanding. ha. I want things MY way. ha. (did you read my 'break through moment in my last post to Miss Maven?? I have just discovered I am a control freak. ha) So... how's it going Mr Bleeding Heart?? ha. I always think a happy ending is much too tidy. I love messes. But you know this already. You know I find tragedy to be more thought-provoking and more emotional. ALWAYS??? Surely not. I mean... I can see the benefit of a "unhappy ending" now and then I do admit sometimes it is better for the story as a whole ( afterall.. ha.. I HAVE been hanging out with YOU lately and watching more "tragedy" and NOIR-ISHness... ha) But does it ALWAYS have to be "messy"?? Can't there be a happy ending SOMETIMES??? (and by happy I mean...not just all smiles and sunshine... but some sort of good outcome for the major characters and a resoltion to the conflict in the story. Surely you can't be opposed to that ALL the time can you??? (Hey.. didn't Top Secret at least end on a happy note???) So you would prefer an ending where Paula and Smithy stay apart. Me, too! It makes more sense. OH no, no, no... ha. That would NEVER do. And PS: I know what I would do if it were ME and the QT suddenly could not recall who either of us were.. I would not CARE what anyone said to me... I would make SURE he knew the truth about who I was (even if he did not remember who HE was, ha) I would not sit around idly by and watch him make wedding plans with someone else..without telling him the truth, for crying out loud. He is going to KNOW who I am.... (ha.. although there likely HAVE been times when he wishes he COULD forget.. ha... Maybe I should paste a post it note on his forehead every day (written backwards) with his name and address and saying "Your name is QT and you are married to Kathy" so if he suddenly gets amnesia.. he won't have any excuse for not finding his way home.. ha. All he has to do is look in a mirror. (Note to self.. go buy some post it notes and glue) HA. Now, Voyager is an unresolved love story. It's also a film of adultery. Just Charlotte's luck Well that would be the "short" version. See.. you could have written my whole ramble for me in one line.. ha. Instead of me blabbing on and on like that. ha. And PS... you caps do tell a pretty clear story as to Charlotte's state of mind. Good job with that sir. I know that there is truth in all you say. But I am steadfast in my "adultery is not ever a good answer and RARELY ever leads to true happiness when all is said and done" mindset... I know.. I am a stick in the mud.. I likely just need to "lighten up" and watch the movie. ha. And not think so hard about it I guess. Instead I guess I will just be the outcast on this one and hang out on my lonely mountaintop... ha. I have some ropes I need to freeze anyway... (ha) I believe you speak for not only woman but also man. Naked. OH golly.. ha. I hope if someone is going to speak for all those folks they will be more coherent than I am , ha. But thanks for seeing it that way. (and PS... just a tip here... "naked" in terms of emotion and being HONEST about who you are with the one you love.. is the ONLY way to dress for success.) Noooooooooooooooooooo! That's not a good ending! It's way too tidy! Blech! I want the mess! I want the Doniphon story! I am having trouble with that comparison because (among other things) although I DO see how Tom had to choose to walk away.. he was the one being left.... more or less. HE would be "the mean wife" instead of Charllotte in this story.. Apples and Oranges, my friend... or should I say.. Camelias and Cacti... ha. :-) PS Miss Maven... no problem on the Raisinettes.. ha. I am more of a "Junior Mint" kinda gal. ha. PSS: Mr. Madhat Molo: I'll be back soon. I promised Kathy I would get back to TBYOOL. She's been surprisingly patient with me...... Too Patient! Something's up Well.... didn't you just read?? I am ABLE to be patient because I am up on my lonely mountaintop right now.. I have all the time in the world to get my frozen ropes sorted out and ready... I NEVER know when one will come in handy... (BIG hint, ha)

Hello there Miss Maven... and thanks for understanding my post. You and Jackie and Miss G... and even FRANK (I know.. gasp) likely have the right attitude about how this story should be viewed and I am just too "locked in" to my little black and white world. ha. I DO tend to personalize movies a bit more than I should (I am forever thinking "What would I do or say or think if..." and sometimes I wonder if my tastes in story lines would change more if I could just forget all that and just "go" with what is happening on screen. But you know.. I always try to find at least ONE character in a story to relate to... so you are right..ha. All that stuff I wrote WOULD be the same advice I'd give to a friend. And if Charlotte were to come to me and say "Oh Ro, but I love him so".. ha. I'd have to tell her the same things I said here.. "I want better for you, young'un." Scary. Ha.. your example was PERFECT about how we sometime wish for something in a movie that we would NOT want to see happen in real life. I guess I take movies and stories TOO much to heart sometimes. They become too real for me and when I start to care about the characters, I am forever wanting to throw something at the tv when I see someone making a BAD choice.. or sometimes I just want to jump in the tv and give some poor person a hug when their heart is breaking.. I say again.. I guess I take it too personal. I have too hard a time seperating what I would say or think in real life from what I see on screen sometimes.... I want everyone to be happy... ha.. sentimental sap that I am. ha. I?m emotional about movies. I can?t explain it. It won?t make sense, but some get it. And I'm blessed and lucky for those that do. I really enjoy ?Now, Voyager.? Is it true to a psychologically sound life...maybe not. But it touches me. In real life, about my life, I?m more careful...weigh things. I?m a Capricorn....we think and weigh and weigh and think...all kinds of stuff. But with movies...I totally give myself to them See, now THAT's the way NV was likely meant to be viewed. I am just too much of a control freak to enjoy it.. ha. I want all my movie characters to do what is right because I know (or I THINK I know) it will be the best thing for them in the end.. ha. (OH golly.. ha. I AM a control freak, ain't I??? ha. I am such a doofus sometimes.) And if you read scripts Ro...I'd like to share one with you. You can help me keep my characters on the straight and narrow. Flaws and all. Ha.. I have never read any scripts before.. ha. But as we just learned.. as much as I would likely enjoy the read (so feel FREE to share one with me ANYTIME, young'un) I likely would be the last person you want to go to for help w/ your characters.. ha. I am too bossy for their own good. Ha.)

Hello there my little OK Kid... They were 'sympatico'. You can;t control it, you can't plan it. You can walk away, and yes, Ro, that would be the hard thing to do and the right thing, but we aren't always about the right thing. How could this woman throw away love with both hands? I also agree with Frank that there must be an element of passion included in that love, without it, it isn't love it is simply comfort. I totally understand WHY folks like this film. The "romance" factor is way off the charts... and it IS easy to have sympathy for Charlotte and Jerry.. and their plight. I don't think EITHER of them set out to be "loose" or have some sort of illicit "fling", etc... And I do agree with you about why those two loved one another. So I know my thoughts are in the minority on this one... I am too "cut and dried" sometimes, maybe, but I just see some of it differntly (about whether she should have stayed or moved on) But isn't it fun that we can see things SO differently.... and yet we BOTH can still be SHOCKED and appalled that you would agree with FRANK!!! (ha) KIDDING!!! Only kidding. ha. What I really was going to say was that it is fun to be able to see the same movie and walk away on completely different sides of the issue and still end up friends at the end of the day. (At least I HOPE that is the case.. ha. Don't all you gals start throwing stuff at me all at once..ha) PS Ms Cutter: Guess I am just a lucky old-fashioned kind of girl. Glad to know I'm not the only one Me too!! :-)

Aren't most love stories with a happy ending "contrived"? NO!!! Why does it have to be a "contrived" tale for there to be a happy ending? Oh for pity sakes.. look who I am talking to.. What makes this one different? The amnesia? How about the effects of war on man and relationships? (spoiler) I don't know.. maybe it was the whole " He's got DOUBLE amnesia...first when he MET Greer.. and THEN after he married her... and then he almost marries someone else.. and then Greer is right there staying QUIET about who she is... until he figures it all out on his own" thing.. it was just too much. (at least for me) I can't believe I like a Greer Garson movie more than you. This is distressing. But at least it will prove how sweet and loving I am I know.. hard to believe, isn't it??? But as for anything proving how SWEET and loving you are?? I think it will take MORE than that. Ohhhhhhhhhhh! And here I was thinking you were going to go all moral on me! Well.. I did not want to turn this thing into a blood bath.. ha. But there WAS that aspect of things to consider TOO. :-) I generally just do not like characters who commit (and decide to stay) in a relationship like that. If adultery is brought into a storyline. I like it to be resolved.... and I did not see that happen really in this film. So... yeah.. that was an issue for me to. (but again.. I do not want to sound judgemental.. I just wish the whole story would have gone a different direction... but I guess that is why nobody is out there paying ME the big bucks to write it.. ha) So you wanted Charlotte (Bette) to demand the divorce. No, not really. I think what I really wanted was for her to "move on" to better things. If she HAD to have a relationship with him, then I think I wanted her to look on the whole thing as a a chance to learn HOW to love and then go find someone who COULD be free to love her (and free for her to love). Or maybe she moves on and realizes she can have a full life without having a "love" interest in it. Sometimes it is better to be alone than in the wrong relationship.. and I am with you.. eventually I think she will come to realize that what she THOUGHT was going to be "enough" for her.. will not make her happy in the end. (at least I hope she would) And I really can't say she settled. Keep in mind, she was close to marrying another man but she called off the engagement because she was lying to herself. It would have been unfair to not only her, but to Elliot (John Loder). I agree it would not have been right for her to marry the other guy. And that goes back to what I was saying.. who said she HAD to marry (or be attatched to) anyone at all to end up happy? Now I know.. I am saying that as an old married woman.. ha. It is easy for me to sound all smug and say.. people can be happy being single... the truth is.. it is NOT always easy. I lived alone for 7 years before I met and married the QT.. (and I am eternally grateful for my husband and for the nearly 17 years we have been married. He is the best man I ever met) But I have to say.. had he not clearly been the right man for me.. I HOPE I would not have married him. When I lived alone... sometimes I dated now and then. and sometimes I did not (And there were times then that I wondered if I ever would marry at all) But I can tell you that it was NOT the end of the world for me to be alone (when I was alone). It was FAR better than being with the wrong man... and I came very close to marrying the wrong man once.. ha.. so I do know a bit about what I am saying here And NO.. he was not married to someone else.. but he was just not the right person for me. (But THAT is a TOTALLY uninteresting and UNnecessary story to tell... so I will leave it at that) So I gues that what I am saying in all this is... I think I would have rather seen Charlotte alone and strong and independent (maybe a little older and wiser) than to see her either A) married to the WRONG man OR staying attatched to someone who was not really hers to stay with. (But again, I know I may not be in the majority with that one. I ask again.. "Who do I think I am?" ha) What Charlotte wants is what I think every woman wants and that's for a man to stir them... inside Ok... let me see if I can say this in a way that makes sense.... I won't try to speak for every woman.. but what I personally really want (and am again ETERNALLY grateful to have found in my husband) is a man who understands and accepts me for WHO I am and not what he THINKS I am. I want to be wanted for ME. And maybe that is how Jerry felt about Charlotte... and she for him... But she was not his to feel that way for.. (and vice versa) so their relationship was never going to reach the kind of depth I am talking about.. because it is something that develops over time and through closeness with one another. Romance can be a very deceptive thing sometimes. Everybody THINKS they know what they want and what will make them happy.. but the truth is... sometimes what you GET ends up being the last thing in the world that will truly bring you happiness in life. It takes a very discerning heart to understand the difference between "romantic" feelings or passion (that may be fleeting) and the kind of true love that deepens and grows over time. And THAT is what I really want from my marriage. And maybe that is what Charlotte THOUGHT she had with Jerry.. but I just don't see it that way... (again.. I am sure others may have a different point of view... but this is just my own opinion) You are right, Tina will eventually have to move on, but I don't think it needs to be now. For the first time in her life, she is happy. Why look to force her to deal with something so soon when she just found her happiness? That would be devastating. She's only 12. Charlotte was in her 20s when she was able to come out of her shell. I say let Tina be happy for a while. I don't know. Maybe you are right. But what I would have loved to have seen was a scenario where Charlotte moves on (after getting Tina started) and then meets up w/ Jerry and Tina later in life.. maybe when Tina is getting married and Charlotte and Jerry either A) are free to marry now because the evil wife is TOAST..ha. OR... Charlotte can look back and see she has made the right choice to move on because her life turned out OK... (either married to someone else or single) and Tina's life turned out ok too... thanks to the early nudge Charlotte gave her way back when. And Jerry is grateful to her for his daughter's sake.. and glad to learn Charlotte found happiness on her own. ANY of those scenarios would have made me happier than the real ending. (But who am I to say? ha.. Did I mention that is likely why nobody is paying ME the big bucks?? ) ha.

Good evening Grey guy... You're quite convincing. You'd definitely own me Ha.... the way you talk sometimes... I think I better DISown you, darlin' sonny boy.. Ha. For one of the very few times, she made some real sense to me. She must be tanked I rest my case... Frank Grimes.. you are officially disowned. (As if THAT will make any difference, ha) What?! Ohhhh, you're nothing but wonderful surprises today. More conflict! Perfect! Let me grab some pillows for you. Or do you prefer mud? You always talk about your toes. Ha..... I will take the mud. It will make a bigger impact on you when I throw it. Okay, spill the beans. I have to hear your reasons why you're not so keen on Random Harvest. Is it because Greer didn't kill enough men? Uh.... it has been a LONG long time since I saw that movie... but I don't remember her killing anyone. (maybe I have amnesia..ha) Anyway.. my main complaint.. (all you RH fans out there... cover your eyes) It is just too "soap opera-ish" and a bit "contrived. Or at least it felt that way to me. (I know... I know... that sounded harsh. And I call myself a "romance movie" fan... Don't everybody throw stuff at me all at once) Well, I've been playing possum because I watched Now, Voyager last night OH good grief, Mr. "Close to the Vest"... remind me not to play poker w/ YOU. (not that I play poker..ha. I am more of a "Hearts" and "Pitch" player..ha) SPOILER: Does your problem stem from Jerry (Paul Henreid) being married? More or less.... And I don't want to come off sounding judgemental about it. Because I DO think she more or less resisted the actual physical "affair"(for the most part) or tried to anyway. But I also think she settled. I wanted MORE for her than to wish for the stars..ha. I think she deserved the moon.. but she did not allow herself to wish for it. So in my mind she set her sites too low. She settled for a relationship with someone else's husband. And as "honorable" as he was to stay married... and as strong as she tried to be to avoid him, no matter what... I just have issues with her still wanting to be "his" and him still wanting to be with her... so long as he remained married to someone else. To move on with her life.. and truly move away from that situation would have been VERY hard, I do understand that. Because I think it is possible for a person to love another person (who is married to someone else). It is not a perfect world. But in stories like this, I would much rather see the strength of character it takes to walk away from that situation altogether and move on with your life (completely) than to stay and struggle through it like she did (just settling for and taking those crumbs when you can get them, so to speak, because you think they were better than not having anything at all) Now having said all that... WHAT about Tina??? I think the scenes w/ Charlotte and Tina are WONDERFUL. And I like the friendship between her and the young girl (especially at the beginning). But to me, I just wish she had not gone so "all out" and rather just given Tina that "start" she needed and then moved on. To me... Tina needed to learn to live the life she was dealt and Charlotte ended up giving HER an "altered" view of reality... in the form a "mother figure" that really wasn't her mother at all. Charlotte COULD have been a friend to her... but to take on such a complete and absolute role like that in Tina's life... to me, it only helped her to AVOID reality.. not learn to live within it. Don't get me wrong.. I am glad Tina had someone to love her and help care for her... but I just had some issues with it all. (I know.. .I sound heartless now, don't I??? Who do I think I am?? ha) Anyway.. I wish it had all gone a different way in the end of things. I did not like to see Charlotte settle for a "pseudo" family... and that to me is what she got. Oh the love she had for them both was real.... and the love they had for her as well, but the relationship were not hers to have... with Tina OR Jerry... and so to me, she settled for less than the real thing in that regard and she cheated herself. Now I should admit that it has been some time since I saw this film too (and I have only seen it once) so I may not be remembering everything exactly as I would if I had just watched it recently.. and I also know not too many people are going to agree with me about some of what I have said... so I won't even try to defend my thoughts... but this is just more or less how I felt about it. thought Elizabeth was fairly similar to her mother. The one who wasn't was Lydia (Ann Rutherford I think the other gals have had done a GOOD job of setting you straight on THAT..ha. So I won't waste too much more breath trying..ha. But I will say that the way I veiw Elizabeth... is that she is smarter (and more sensible) than BOTH of her parents. Her mother is a busy body and cares LITTLE for anything but herself and her family's social status... and she is WAY too obvious about it... she doesn't even TRY to hide her schemes. And the father is FAR too tolerant of the nonsense from his wife (and some of the other girls) and would rather hide in his study than make them behave. Elizabeth is the one who tries to keep everything together. (Out of love for her father.. and embarassment for her mother) Yeah, but what about his family? Both would be full of snobbery Well, you do have a point there. ha. Both their families had a LOT of less than desirable traits, ha. They come from such "flawed" ancestry, ha...hopefully they will cancel each other out (in the gene pool) and their children will be PERFECT. ha. (And.. THAT is what will hopefully happen for the kidling too someday when SHE marries. HA!!) :-) You're not a snob. You're wrong, but not a snob Ha.. I don't know whether to thank you.. or hit YOU with a rock. (and ps.. now that you have read what I had to say about NV.. ha. You MAY want to rethink that whole "you're not a snob" comment.. I am sure others will disagree... ha. I am pitching my lonely tent up on that mountain side again... shades of "The Furies".. ha. I feel so all alone already)

Hello there Jabez... Oh, stop! I was completely teasing you. I I KNOW... ha. And I was "guilting" you for it, sonny boy..ha. We Ma's have our ways. :-) I just can't believe this is the stuff of "Best Actress You may be right about that part... I will defer to you and the Goddess (because I think she came up w/ a plausible explanation for it) but I have to say that of the two films you were comparing for Greer... (MM and RH) I tend to prefer MM... I am not so big on RH as some... I know.. first Now Voyager and then THIS.. ha. DON'T let it get around.. ha... I don't want to be drummed out of the "chick flick" club.) Ha!!! All right! So we've got a difference of opinion between you and Jackie. Perfect! Now I MUST watch the film to see if I agree with you or Spunky. I'm curious to know what bothers you about the love story. Interesting. Way to sell a flick! Ha... Jackie and I likely do agree on MOST points of the story.. I do like parts of NV very much.. my biggest criticism is in the events surrounding the love story.... and after reading all my other many "blabbings" on here about all things black, white, and grey..ha... without giving anything away... I bet once you watch it you will understand why) Jackie knows me pretty good.. ha. She already has it figured out. Who wants to watch a nosey mother trying to marry off her daughters to rich snobs? And they call this love? Dreadful! NO way.. ha. You are being "purposefully obtuse" ha. There is NO way anyone could watch that film and think THAT is what the story was about. Not even YOU... ha. That mom had NOTHING to do with the "love story" between Elizabeth and Darcy. OH my golly. (in fact.. the mom and most of the sisters were so doggone annoying I wanted to hit them with a big fat ROCK. ha) . THANKFULLY Elizabeth was NOTHING like her mother. ha. But imagine the family dinners poor Darcy had to put up with after he married in to THAT family.. UGH. Boy... I bet he stuffed his ears with cotten every Christmas so he would not have to listen to that biddy go on and on and on. HA! (probably what YOU would do if I were gabbing instead of TYPING all this... but THAT is because you just don't want to admit how wrongheaded you are) :p

PS: Jackie... Cornel Wilde.. I had NO idea... woo wee! :-)

Hello, My DEAR Grey Guy, Don't be mean about the situation Oh me. I DID call you ?lousy? didn?t I? I guess that WAS mean(er) than usual for me. I humbly apologize. Please forgive me. I sort of was ?out of control? the other day. Ha. You know us old folks. Sometimes we get ?grouchy?. ( but I WAS rolling my eyes at your MEAN remarks about ME. Ha) So she's SvenGreeri WHO???????????????????????? Oh, dear. Don't tell me you've been poisoned by Butterscotch! But that was rather lovely Nice trick. (taking a ?swipe? while you say something nice, ha. (Again I am rolling my eyes at you) ha. But thanks. That is more or less just how I see her character. She was influential, surely. I guess I'm used to characters taking a more active role in a story, driving the story versus nudging it. For example, in Harvey, Elwood (James Stewart) is influencing others through his words but he also drives the story. It's completely Stewart's film. Mrs. Miniver isn't necessarily Greer's film. She's a piece of the puzzle. Greer just seemed to be the mother in the story just as Walter is the father in the story. Now see, I don?t agree. I think it WAS more or less her story (but her role in the family defined who she was, so I can see how you might THINK it was not so much about her) I don?t think the film would have been NEARLY as good if it had been about ?them? as a family rather than about HER and how she devoted herself to her family. But it may just be the two of us viewing it from a different perspective. As I was saying, I was more interested in Teresa Wright Teresa is the epitome of a breath of fresh air. She's also so pure, sweet, and innocent. She's a "regular girl" and I love that about her. She is all of that and MORE. I can see how she might have skewed your thinking. Ha. I'm curious to see if Bette Davis has a greater role and performance in Now, Voyager Well I am pretty sure you will NOT have any trouble viewing HER as the main character of THAT story. (and PS, I have tried and TRIED to like that movie, but never have been able to rank it very high on my list. But Davis DOES does a good job, And so does Raines. I LOVE him in just about anything) It is ?the love story? angle in this movie that I do not like. I wish it had gone a different direction... But that is just me, I guess. I don't think Jane is worrying about a guy not liking her works NO, but the idea of someone preferring a ?mud fight? and a woman being chased through town in her underwear (and all those molasses and feathers) to her endearing tale of the trials and tribulations (and eventual LOVE STORY) between Miss Bennett and Mr Darcy might shake her up a bit. Ha..

Howdy, Ma Stone Hello sonny boy... Is Butterscotch choking you, too? Or are you finally sampling your food creations Oh, good grief.. I am not even going to try and reason with you when you are like this, ya lousy saur kraut and sawdust eater (I WISH I knew how to post a smiley face character rolling it's eyes...) felt that Greer blended in more than stood out. She was in the background with Carol and Vic and then Lady Beldon (Dame May Witty) and Mr. Ballard (Henry Travers). She'd say her peace and then step back. I think you are close.. in my mind.. . she brought out the best in others by not "leading" so much as directing them (graciously) to do things (a la that scene w/ Lady Beldon... by the time she was finished.. it was almost like it was Lady Beldon's idea... but really the seeds were planted (no pun intended) by Mrs M) And when it came to family and those she cared about.. she was a "pillar" that supported them as she gave her love and help unconditionally. She was devoted to being there FOR them.. not just with them. And she also expected them to be their best all the while she brought the best out in them by her own example. She really was the epitome of a gracious and strong woman who chose to show her strength not by standing out in front and leading... but by (as you say) stepping back and supporting those she loved. She was "humble" and yet proud all at the same time. (and I mean BOTH those words in the best possible way to define them... and not the "less glorious" meanings that sometimes get used) Teresa Wright always wins me over. I'm a pushover for her I have never seen her in a role where I did not like her. She really was one of those actresses that I wish could have done even more than the films she is known for. (My fave part of her role in MM was the one you mentioned.. where he is giving her grief and she puts him in his place by quietly telling him all that she is "DOING" for the cause while he is just sitting around "talking" about it... I I say again.. wasn't she something.. I liked McLintock! more than Goodbye, Mr. Chips and Pride and Prejudice. Does that make you feel any better? Hmmmmm.... ha... McLintock is above Pride and Prejudice???? Jane Austen is likely rolling over in her grave.. ha. All kidding aside... let me think... I like all three films... I really like GBMC... on ONE level.. but I far prefer the other two films (P&P and McL) for enjoyment and "movie watchability" (and for similar reasons) And I have to say that for "enjoyment" again... I probably prefer McL over P&P... at least the Greer version....(That Duke and Maureen are just TOO hilarilous) But I REALLY liked the A&E miniseries of Pride and Prejudice though. (I know... Scotchie.. please forgive me..ha) The A&E series is one of my all time fave versions of that story... so I hope I NEVER have to choose between McL and THAT one.. ha. OH.. and also... if I were READING a book.. then P& P wouldl win hands down as well... so there.... now maybe Jane will rest a bit easier.. HA!. PS Miss Butterscotchie... What I like about Greer's character in Mrs. Miniver is the fact that she can look at anyone in this specific way and they instantly melt into doing the right thing or what she thinks they need to do. It's such a heart-warming look. It's that something that even the viewers of the movie tend to look deep inside her face with a softness. It's so penetrating! That's it exactly. :-)

HIya little Scotchie... Is the kidling being a good Princess today? So far so good.... (but you never can tell..ha) You can string him up now! Oh good.. we are having freezing rain/sleet mix going on out there right now... the rope should have some LOVELY ice crystals frozen on it (for that extra burn) ha. I will go check the gallows and make sure the steps are clear... we can't have him slipping and falling down before we hang him, now can we? (He might sprain his ankle or something and he just won't have quite as good of a "snap" at the end of the rope unless he is standing up tall and straight when the lever gets pulled)

You left out a couple of "really really really's" ha..

I actually liked Mrs. Miniver. That surprised me Gasp.. choke.... gasp.... ME TOO!!!! Are you just pulling our chain here or are you SERIOUS??? Mrs. Miniver is an EXCELLENT film.... and among my most favorite WWII movies of all time(although it is not what some might think of in the traditional sense for a "war movie") I was expecting it to be an overly dramatic film with Greer dominating the screen as a too perfect heroine That is one of the best parts about her role in this film.. she does not dominate the movie but the film does sort of revolve around her character as she supports and even defends the ones she loves. I was stunned to find out it's a Teresa Wright film just as much as a Greer film. Wasn't she something?? This was the first film I think I ever really saw with her.. or maybe it was Shadow of a Doubt... I am not sure... but she really got my attention in this story with her quiet yet fierce nature all rolled into one... Good gravy what is the world coming to... the Grey Dude not only SAW a Greer film... but LIKED it.... what next... is he going to have a change of heart about McLintock now???? NAH... that'd just be TOO scary. :p :p :p

"Is that the one with Bette Davis and Henry Fonda?" HA!!! Did you tell her yes... and all those malaria patients too??? ha. Oh wait.. ha. Now I am confused too.. ha.

Hello there Saur Kraut Kid prefer a mix. If every character and story were to end redemptive, I'd get bored. I just like seeing people crash and burn, go down in a blaze of ignorant glory. And some people don't get the chance to say they were sorry, as Tom did. So goes life. I can see the value in what your are saying. And there are those moments (in movie) where I have honestly cheered right along with the next person to see the "bad man" go down (woo hoo!! the Clantons are gone... YIPPEE... Rooster Cogburn justed killed Ned Pepper) I am glad to see some folks get their comeuppance... and obviously not EVERY character is going to have that "I am sorry I was wrong" moment. So yes, I agree and I do think it is good to see some folks go up in "flames" so to speak. And it often makes for a more powerful story, too.. But when it comes to "preference"... (especialy with regard to the outcome of a main character in a story) I guess I just like to lean toward the "hope for humanity" side of things. (although in real life... as much as I want to be... I am not always as optimistic.... I know... hard to believe, isn't it??) When I wrote in Ms. Cutter's Summer School thread... I mentioned that movies like Scarface and TPE are not usually ones I enjoy (although I DID enjoy these two very much). And the example I gave (for the ones I DON'T like) was the Godfather films. The acting is SUPERB in these movies (or at least the two I have seen) and the story is VERY intriguing.. you are just pulled in so DEEP with the whole tale.. but GOLLY was it depressing to watch. I found NO characters to relate to or to sympathize or empathize with (at least to my recollection) In the end.. I just wanted to "off" them all myself.. I like to have at least ONE person that I feel a connection to in the story that I want to "win out" and with those films, I did not. (although at the VERY beginning.. I had such HIGH hopes for Michael... I wanted to kick him in the pants when he finally gave in... but I digress) Anyway.... does a movie like the ones we are discussing ALWAYS benefit from a "redeemeed" main character... not necessarily... but it is my preference. (just call me Pollyanna... HA!) So would this mean you feel sorry for everyone who does bad? I'm more selective with who is going to get my sympathy No.. I don't necessarily feel SORRY for the ones who do bad (I HATED Liberty Valance for example, and I think I hated TONY too... but I mean that in a GOOD way... they were written like that) I was NOT sorry for them in a broad sense of the word, exactly... but I guess a part of me just feels sorry for the CHOICES they made somewhere in life that led to be become the people they ended up to be. Going back to Valance (I know...ha. how many movies am I going to bring UP in this ramble?? ha.. First Fargo, then My Darling Clementine, True Grit, The Godfather.. now Libertty Valance?? But it DOES somehow always come back to TMWSLV, doesn't it? :-) ) ANYWAY... what I am saying is.. one of the things that always "gets" me in that film is the way all the folks in that littel Mexican cantina start dancing and celebrating as his dead body is dragged away off of the street. That is a very disturbing moment in the film for me. Seeing him get shot WAS a "yes" sort of moment in the story... I was GLAD he was gone.. but at the same time... think about what that says about WHO Valance really was as a human being that people would celebrate at his demise. It make me sorry for him (on some sort of level) that he never learned how to be a DECENT guy and now he has had to pay the cost.... but I am still not sorry that he is dead. He NEEDED to die... I CLAPPED the first time I saw this movie and he went down... and I am GLAD the movie is about "The Man who Shot" him.. but still... isn't it a bit pathetic to think about all those folks doing a "dance" on his grave and he isn't even IN it yet?? That is the sort of "sympathy" I am talking about... does that make sense? (Maybe not..ha. It did come out of MY brain.. ha. I am sure somehow it has gotten lost in the translation.. but it makes perfect sense to ME.. ha.) have great sympathy for your daughter. She has to eat your cooking! Blah blah blah blah blah (Mr Saur Kraut and Sawdust) *Gee... I am a mean old mom.. ha*. You are! Thank goodness for your husband. An icy rope awaits you SOMEDAY, sir.. but don't worry.. though others may cheer... I will have sympathy for you (right after I slip that rope around your neck and pull the lever) HA!!!!! PS Jackie.. There IS a thin line between "hugs" and the "time out" chair, isn't there?? ha. And re: whether I am a "wonderful" mom or not.. ha... I sometime worry who is going to play me in the movie when she writes that "Tell All" book someday about how MEAN I am.. ha.

Ahhh, poor little kidling OH golly can that kid tug on the heart strings.. ha. She gets SO wooshy eyed when she gets in trouble.. it breaks your heart. But a mom's gotta do what a mom's gotta do.. ha. (Ps Little Scotchie.. you little smartie..ha. What a trick to play on poor old dad... ha)

Hi there sonny boy.. Ha (whoops... I was slipping in to my "I'm Ma and you're Jabez" role... ha.. wrong ramble!! ) I know you like redemptive endings and this is Tom's. His ultimate end is shocking. It was quite a powerful finish I do like to see people sorry for the wrongs they do... and so for Tom... despite the fact that he DIED... ha.. it really was the best possible ending for his character... but gee.. it still gets me to even think about the look on his face... and that music at the end.. it was such a happy little tune.. it gave me the creeps.. "I'm forever blowing.... MY MIND" trying to get that out of my head.. ha. As for the "redemption" angle of this (or any other story).... I like to see wrong headed thinking brought around to the right. (ha.. I am ALWAYS holding out hope for even the most LOSTand Shiftless of causes ) And I know.. sometimes the real world does not always have a happy ending... and that is OK. But even if the movie ends with a traumatic shocking moment like TPE... and THAT was ANYTHING but a happy ending... it was still an effective use of the concept that even the vilest offender CAN see the wrong they have done and want to change. We agree. Look out now! Ha... what IS the world coming to... Tony was all about himself and his interests, which included protecting his sister at all costs. Still, I think he felt really bad about his killing Guino and he was upset over Cesca's death I think you are right that he did have a certain level of regret for those actions (against people he cared about) but still.. I don't think he was really sorry for the crimes and the life he lived that got him to the end he had. I thought both men brought about their fates. They took pleasure in what they were doing. They flaunted their arrogance in the face of others. They had all the answers. No, I don't have any sympathy for them Here is maybe a better way to say what I meant about feeling sympathy for them.... I am SORRY to see that they made choices that led them down the path that they arrived that. It was such a waste. And yet... the fact remains that they still deserved EXACTLY what they got. They had the potential to be GOOD men... think of all they COULD have done w/ the drive and enthusiasm and "charisma" they had. But it was all wasted... and they had NO clue that they COULD have done any better (except for maybe Tom at the end of it all) So I feel sorry for them as human beings who met a violent end (the sympathy) but I do not feel sorry that they got what they deserved. (the just consequence) Ha.. talk to the kidling... just this past week she lied to me (not once but THREE times, the little scoot... and I KNEW she was lying the whole time... but she refused to be honest until I proved to her that she had lied) So then she got her consequence (Writing "I will obey and tell the truth" 25 times.. plus no tv for the evening) and when she got upset, I told her that I was sorry she'd chosen to disobey and was sad to see her so upset and in so much trouble. I even maybe can understand why she felt the temptation to lie... she did not want to stop playing and clean up her toys... she IS a kid, you know.. ha. (so there's the sympathy) ... but I also told her that being sorry for her did not mean that I was going to let her get by without getting in trouble because what she did was TOTALLY not acceptable and that lying to Mama would always make her unhappy in the end. (the consequence) Gee... I am a mean old mom.. ha. You're much better than me. But that was established long ago HA... well now, as I have just shown you.. ha... THAT all depends on WHO you ask... (I am afterall... The Peacemaker) ha.

Oh for pity's sake.. ha. Little Missy, I am more perplexed than ever... ha. After reading your post ... I DO see your point... and yet.. OH golly... WOULD she have been happier with or without him.... I am starting to feel like I am in a Tootsie Pop commercial... "The world may never know" ha. (maybe we should ask Mr. Turtle... or better yet..ha... Mr. OWL!!) Or even better still... (I forgot for a moment what thread I was in...) BRONXIE.. what does MOM have to say about it??????????????

Golly... I am even more confused than ever.. ha. (NO surprise there..ha) I don't know. If (as you say April) he would have been a good husband in that he held up his end of the bargain... then I guess in a way that would maybe have at LEAST brought her some comfort (no harm, no foul... he is not a BAD man) but.. if he had ended up like Jackie suggested... then I think it would have killed her (at least emotionally) to be the "brunt" of all the whispering jokes.. "look at poor Morris's wife... now we know why he has to run around") I don't know.. I don't think Morris was ever malicious.. but he was extremely self serving. To me.. he was not ruthless... but he still only wanted what HE wanted for himself and did not really have anyone else's interests at heart besides his own. And anyone that will NOT forsake themselves for the happiness of another. (which to me is a HUGE part of what committment in marriage is all about) is not going to make a good husband for someone so eager to please and so hungry for the affection (and approval) of those she loved as Catherine was at the beginning. Morris would not have stayed home with her... he'd have been to busy having all the fun her money could buy... and she would likely not ever have felt "confident" on his arm out in public. (if she had stayed as she was before her father and Morris more or less "woke her up") She did not have the inner strength she'd have needed to hold her head up (when the whispering comments would have been made about HIM too.. as in.. "he only married her for her money") Either way... I think marrying Morris would have crushed her eventually, no matter how kind he might have been to her. She was just too weak. It was only AFTER she finally saw what her father and Morris had done to her that she truly DID find the inner strength to overcome all the insecurity that had kept her down so long. But the way she found it... and the way she ended up was just so tragic.. If she could truly find a way to let go of the bitterness and the resentment for all they did TO her.. it might have been that the way she was treated was the best thing FOR her. (does that make sense?) PS... April.. your comments regarding the aunt have me in a quandary too.. ha. I never have seen her in the same light as you... but now I wonder.... hmmmmm

I know.... just when I think I have made up my mind, I change it again. Ha. I don't KNOW if she would have truly been happier. I NEVER liked Morris. (when I was in high school I was in the musical "Carousel" and one of the characters in that play is referred to as a "sleeky little la de dah". Ha.. THAT is what I always think of when I think of MORRIS. ha. And his leaving Catherine high and dry like that was both the worst thing and the best thing that could have happened I guess. I did NOT want her to end up quite as she did.... but I also could not have stood it if she had married him and he had ended up using her up along with her money until she was broken down even further than she was. I do think she DID have some measure of happiness in the life she ended up with... even though she had that bitterness and hate as well. I still don't know if I can answer my own question... sigh...

OH my golly...... I love The Heiress. I watched it again the other night and loved it all the more. HERE is a poser for you gals. I have ALWAYS wondered (and do not really KNOW if I can even answer) WOULD Catherine have ended up HAPPIER with Morris than she did without him??????? I am really interested in hearing your thoughts....

the ghost from Hangings Past? HA!!! I have sort of been a bit MIA lately. Ha. But you know me I am BOUND to turn up again sooner or later (bad penny that I am) I have to confess I am SO far behind in all the various chats going on in this thread I have not read ALL of the comments going on, but just running strictly off of the ?sympathy? topic at hand, I think Tom was the more sympathetic of the two men for sure. (even IF he was a heinous monster throughout MOST of the movie. (Here is a borrowed piece I wrote from Ms. Cutter?s Summer School thread) Way back when Rohanaka wrote: You get to see why and how he (Tom) followed the path he did. And you get to see him (sort of) repent for the wrongs he committed (toward the end) And his ultimate end was far more brutal and shocking. (even though Tony?s was way more violently shown) Seeing James Cagney?s frozen death face and wrapped up body fall on the floor was VERY attention getting. (at least for me) Tony was sorry at the end too, but not in the same way Tom was. He was sorry it WAS the end. He was sorry he?d gotten caught. He was sorry his kid sister and all his friends were dead, and he knew he was next. But I don?t think he had one of those ?If I could do it all again, I?d do it different? moments. At least not the same way Tom seemed to have. Tony was pathetic at the end, but not SYMpathetic. Now I have to confess I would need to go back and review the two films to get a REFRESHED picture of all this in my head, but basing what I recall from way back then when I watched, I still feel pretty much the same. I think that both films did a great job of showing the end result of a TOTALLY (or perhaps NEARLY total in Tom?s case) bankrupt soul and the absolute depths a person can sink to when they allow themselves to be given over to their own greed, hate, selfish desire, etc, etc. And the picture that is painted for the viewer is both shocking, and also perhaps a bit tragically compelling all at the same time. I DID have sympathy for both men. I felt SAD to see the end result for them as human beings. Sad and bewildered to see the waste of all those lives (At the end of BOTH these movies I sort of like Margie in Fargo: And for what? For a little bit of money. There's more to life than a little money, you know. Don'tcha know that? And here ya are, and it's a beautiful day. Well. I just don't understand it ) I think she had that ?mom? instinct going on and even though she had a TOTAL monster in the back of her squad car and he deserved WHATEVER punishment he was about to receive to the FULL extent of the law, she felt sorry for him as a human being. And I guess I am just a ?Marge? kinda gal, ha. Because Scarface and The Public Enemy both more or less left me feeling the same way to a certain extent. PS: HELLO Miss Maven... all is well... just sort of been a SLACKER lately. But I have been "lurking" ha. (OH me... don't tell the Shadow dude..ha) Edited by: rohanaka on Feb 19, 2010 1:58 PM

But I never felt any sympathy for either guy WHAT??????????????????????????????????????????????????? Not even at the end???? OH you cold hearted guy.

Happy Birthday, Ms Favell... from Ben (your favorite Brunette).... and me too!! :-)

Hiya Ollie... I wasn't giving you a hard time sir... I was IMPRESSED to see you here!! :-) Way cool to have you (and Miss Finnie too as I recall) showing up for the chat. I am sure our well esteemed and dearly loved hostess, Miss G would agree.. you should come on back more often and drop in for a ramble now and then. :-) PS: Sorry to hear you are still snow deprived.... I imagine if you asked nicely... there are DOZENS of folks here who have overstocked and can make you an EXCELLENT deal... perhaps even with free delivery!

Dadgum.... I have been so busy this entire week.... I have not had any time to sit and watch 7DIM.. (And GEE... I know I must be missing something if OLLIE made it here to ramble about it) So I hope I can get to watch it all EVENTUALLY... but truthfully... it may be a while... ha... at the rate I am going it may actually BE sometime in May before I find the time.. ha... (so forgive me, kids... I bow out of this ramble this time) But at least now I have a lot to think about from reading all your interesting comments.... thanks for the fun read, folks....