[Wagon Master (1950) - January 16, 2009 1:00 p.m. EST]

PS: Ms Favell....

 

I meant to comment on this earlier.. but got too busy making fun of the Grey Guy and forgot.. ha..

 

You know I love John Wayne, and I know he can be a subtle and fascinating actor... but to make the point I wanted to make, and because I got irritated, I had to create a clearcut analogy that he could understand. I wanted to hit him over the head with a little of his own medicine, or hammer if you will. But a hammer can be wielded with the utmost grace and finesse.... it makes a strong connection, and people notice when you are using one. So I don't think it is so far off from Wayne himself. I certainly didn't mean it as a bad thing in any way at all.

 

YOU do not have to make a case for me about your feelings for the Duke, little Missy.. I still remember your posts on They Were Expendable. But the further you have taken the "hammer" analogy.. the better I am liking it... Michealangelo used a hammer too.. ha. So I do see how it could be more than one perspective on hammering that you were talking about... (and GEE.. you can accomplish a lot.. ha.. even with a LITTLE hammering... here and there... did you ever see The Shawshank Redemption?? Ha)

 

Anyway.. no worries, kid. I know you are a Duke fan... I think you did a fine job of comparisons between him and Ben.

 

Oh, I can hear Mr. Ford now, bellowing loud enough for people in the next forum to hear, "so you think you know HOW TO DIRECT THE PICTURE? Go ahead. WE"LL ALL stand here and wait while you figure out what you want to do different..... " and then he would level his steely gaze on me and wait while I crumbled to dust on the floor.

 

HA!! NO doubt.. :-) I wouldn't even make it to the floor.. ha. I'd just "evaporate" on the spot. ha.

[Wagon Master (1950) - January 16, 2009 1:00 p.m. EST]

Y'all are just jealous of my apron!

 

Never.. ha. Your apron is too dingy GREY. (I like mine crisp and WHITE)

[A Walk on the Noir Side]

Hey there little gal,

 

have the feeling you found stuff in it I did not

 

I bet I didn't.. you and Jackie are the two with the sharp eyes for stuff... but gee.. I DID find a lot to like about the story as a whole.. it really reeled me in right from the beginning... When those two thugs came in that diner.. I KNEW they were thugs.. I KNEW they were trouble.. I just wasn't sure WHO or WHAT or HOW it would all come together.

 

(mini spoiler)

Wasn't that a tense moment w/ those three poor guys taken hostage like that... I really did not expect them to walk away... wow.

 

the movie seems to turn into a mystery/crime solver story and away from about character conflicts, at least for a while.

 

At first I had a hard time finding the insurance guy believable.. I wish he had been a "private eye" or maybe a detective... As an insurance guy, he was too much of a "cop" wannabe.. ha I thought.. MOST guys in his job would just figure out if there was a claim... find the beneficiary.. and move on... the fact that he got so involved in figuring it out seemed a stretch.. until he added the whole "I want to find the money from the robbery too, since we insure the hat company as well" part) THEN I was able to sit back and give him more credibility.

 

So many people talk about Ole, whereas I would have preferred they had cut back a little on that and showed more (whenever they flashed back and let us see what Burt did, it was so much stronger and more interesting), but who am I to say.

 

No.. I think you are right.. at least for the most part. Movies that rely so heavily on flashback to tell the story don't usually work too well for me... (unless it is done like TMWSLV... where the WHOLE story more or less gets told during one big long flashback) But having said that.. I did sort of just "go with it" and it became less and less of an issue as the story went along.

 

(I am already with you on Burt. When I first saw the movie years ago, I was disappointed a bit in him, I was expecting some big moment from him that never came. Now I appreciate his character for what it is and his performance, too. His first starring role.)

 

I was really impressed with him in this film (and again.. that is saying something for me) I do wish he'd have gotten a "big moment" in the story.. but then again... maybe that was the beginning.. I thought when he was lying on that bed.. half hidden in the shadows... first talking to his friend, and then just WAITING for those guys to show up.. wow.. even though he did not have a lot of dialogue.. I thought that was quite a moment.

 

She really was, when she was laughing and talking sweet it seemed like a total act. When she was greedy or mean, she was real.

 

Whoa baby was she evil. At the very first meeting (where she is singing and then sort of standing there (knowing all along that Burt was behind her... but NEVER acknowledging him... you could tell she had him RIGHT where she wanted him. I knew EVERYTHING about her just from that moment in the story.... and my impression of her never changed.. even though it LOOKED like it should have for a while.. OH golly. And you are right.. ha. She WAS real when she was greedy and mean... real greedy and real mean.

 

CineMaven is the film maker here, I wonder how she feels about it

 

I hope she (and others) will tell us.. Oh Miss MAVEN????????? :-) And I hope YOU have some more to say TOO little Missy. :-)

 

PS... I meant to mention the music... I really like how it was used in this film. (especially the shoot out at the restaurant near the end) And our beloved Mr. Osborne came on after the movie.. and confirmed my suspicions..ha. If I am remembering right, he said the same guy that composed the music for Dragnet worked on this film too.. and that fits because I thought the music (in the scene I just mentioned) sounded VERY familiar.. ha. It was like a "variation on a theme". ha. But you know... I think I liked this version better... it was more "orchestral" and yet still all intense and "in your face" all at the same time.

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Feb 26, 2010 1:52 AM

[Wagon Master (1950) - January 16, 2009 1:00 p.m. EST]

it should go well with saurkraut and sawdust

 

Ha.... I just thought of something.. we should give the GREY dude the steak that fell on the floor.. ha. Didn't they used to have sawdust floors back then??? HA!!!!!

 

PS: folks... thanks for the comments on my "folk art" thoughts... it was Jackie that got me to thinking "artistically."

[Western Movie Rambles]

PS Miss Maven.. I have seen that one before too. I am not sure but I think it may have been posted somewhere by someone on the message board before... but still enjoyed seeing it again. Always good for a smile. Thanks, kiddo.

[Western Movie Rambles]

Fred... very sorry for you loss.. I hope you and your family are doing alright.

[Wagon Master (1950) - January 16, 2009 1:00 p.m. EST]

If you're serving from the MWSLV menu.. I want the steak that did NOT go on the floor please... and a side of "sweet" and perhaps some of the cheese. (do you have Ford Lite in the six pack?? I am a teetotaler.. so ... nah.. I won't DRINK it.. BUT... I hear they make great collector's items... It comes in those reusable jelly jars w/ images of all the characters that get shown at the end of WM and TQM on the side) HA!!!

[A Walk on the Noir Side]

Ok.. I'm back.. (had to get the kidling all settled in... that time of night, don't ya know.. ha)

 

She's a cocococold hearted...sssssssnake...look into her eyes

 

OH my golly, little gal... she really was just a snake in a tight sweater wasn't she?? Whoa Nelly, what a mean woman she was.

 

Finally.. a Burt Lancaster film that I LIKED him in.. ha. I am not a big fan of his... and I HAVE tried a few of his films... but he just seems so "over the top" to me... but not this time... maybe because he was still a pup... (a gorgeous hunk of a pup, I might add..ha) Anyway.. I thought he did a fine job. I actually wish he had had a bit MORE time on screen. (so that IS saying a lot about how much I liked him in this film)

 

You are right.. the film did get a bit slower as it went on.. I think the earlier scenes (overall) had a lot more tension.. but I think in general.. I have to say I liked this film a lot. I am glad to get a chance to see it... (thanks to YOU, little missy.... before your recommendation, I had every intention of passing this one up... due to the whole "I'm not big on Burt" angle.. ha. I am glad I gave it a chance)

[PHOTO CAPTIONING FUN]

95

 

"Tried to see how many points it was worth to get me with the door, huh???? Well you messed with the wrong pedestrian THIS time, buddy...."

[A Walk on the Noir Side]

Anyone else?

 

Ha... Miss G.. I beat you to the post!! ha. I'll be back with more later... :-)

[A Walk on the Noir Side]

"Kitty is innocent!" Kitty is INNOCENT ???

 

HA!!!! Kitty is TOAST!!!!!!! (now THAT was a happy ending!!! Frank Grimes must HATE this movie...)

[Wagon Master (1950) - January 16, 2009 1:00 p.m. EST]

figured I was doomed

 

Ha... well... from the looks of things.. ha... it is a good thing you and Jackie got to some common ground.. your doom was about to be imminent.. ha.

 

(PS thanks for the Gold star, by the way.. ha. Money has been tight this year already.. I can melt it down and pay MAYBE pay the light bill with it..ha.)

 

RO: It is not so much a western but rather almost a form of folk art

 

FG: I completely agree. And that kind of art doesn't sell with me, usually. It's too bland

 

Oh no... Folk art is anything but bland... it is full of rich and intricate design and lots of texture and detail... and usually very personal... but also... very "folksey".. ha. (hence the name..ha) Now I know you think the characters are "flatter" in WM and in one way.. they are... so you might argue with me (and you have w/ Jackie) that there are not "intricate" designs in the characters or the story so why would I use this example? But if you look at this film more like a painting... or a piece of art... OR... maybe even more appropriately a "song" some aspects of it DO stand out more than others.

 

But to me... it is more about the "whole" than the individual pieces. And to use the "song" analogy... it is like a concert... and sometimes the tune is playing loudly.. and you get more insight on the BIG picture in general overall... and sometimes the tune gets softer (or maybe you only hear one instrument at a time) and it draws you in a little closer... even if only for a moment. You won't necessarily hear a LOT of any one theme (or solos) played over and over in this film (although much of it DOES center around Ben and Dru... and a few others) and each part gets to be played indivdually now and then... but it is more of a collection about all of them together.... and is still good to listen to. (And I am speaking figuratively now... about the movie itself.. not necessarily about the actual music... which I DID enjoy too)

 

And PS... I don't expect you to change your mind here.. ha. We all won't always agree... I can't agree with you about your thought on Wagon Master (or.. some of what Jackie has even said about Stagecoach.. ha) But I can understand your points of view... and I say this because I just spent several days somewhere else blabbing on and on about why I was not too fond of two movies that MANY people on here would list either near (or at ) the top of their favorite list. (and am grateful nobody decided to hit me with a brick..ha.. at least not YET anyway)

 

I have said this many times.... and it bears repeating... movies are nothing if not subjective. And different people like different things.... and at the end of the day when all is said and done, everbody has their own expectations about what they THINK a film should have been or is.... and what they enjoyed (or loved) or did NOT enjoy (or they were not "too KEEN"...ha) about.

 

And that is the beauty of this place... (that and the fact that we can slap you around a bit when you are WRONG SO VERY WRONG, sir) HA!!!! (reeled you in, there didn't I??) ha.

 

(and PS: Ms Favell... I don't know if I can completely give myself over to your "hammer" analogy re: The Duke.. but I DO agree about your needle comment re: our beloved Ben... very good way to make your point, young'un)

 

PS: Mr Movieman: One thing that strikes me about "Wagon Master" is it appears to be a film Ford wanted to do for the love of doing it. I think it also shows in "The Quiet Man." I think some films he makes because he is making a statement or it needs to be a big film (Ft. Apache.) It is not a film to fill a need. (Rio Grande.) Great films both but the approach is different

 

A perfect way to say it sir. Now see.. YOU know how to make your point in one paragraph or LESS.... ha. (me... I am too "blabbishly challenged" to be able to keep it so succint. ha)

[Our Favorite Brunettes]

He IS a brunette.. ha. And what's not to love... (my fave pic you posted is that one that is two spots below him and the kitty cat.. it looks like he is in a studio... has he really been gone that long? Wow.

 

Here is my fave George song:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6tV11acSRk

 

Oh gee.. just looking at all the photos in that youtube... they're ALL brunettes.... ha. :-)

 

[Wagon Master (1950) - January 16, 2009 1:00 p.m. EST]

You...."HATE" (in all caps)...the ending???? Okay, it was just me and Butterscotch who were ready to lynch you, now Kathy will be here soon with the frozen ropes

 

April... there isn't a rope COLD enough for such an atrocity as THIS. For PITY'S sake what a mess.

 

Now he can say he HATES chunky cut up veggies. He can say he HATES to eat anything that does not STINK to high heaven of Saur Kraut and Sawdust.... good golly.. he can even say he hates McLintock... (ha... but we ALL know he is fudging on that one)

 

But to say he HATES the ending to what is perhaps the GREATEST film ever to grace the screen in all moviedom??? (sorry Jackie.. ha. I love WM and all... but... ) ha. I think he is just YANKING our chain here to see how worked up he can get us.. He is an instigator of the worst kind. He WANTS us to get all mad at him for stuff like THIS so he can distract us from all his REAL wrong headedness in OTHER areas. ha.

 

But the TRUTH of the matter is... his REAL feelings for the end of TQM are far less inflammatory and controversial. He may not have LOVED the ending... (wrongheaded thinker that he is.. ha) but HATE???? I say NO.

 

How do I know THIS????? Let the GREY one (oh Master of Duplicity and Chain Yanking) speak for HIMSELF. When I read all this tonight... I decided to check out his statement to refresh my memory... because I was SURE if he had ever said he HATED any part of such a WONDERFUL piece of cinematic majesty as THE QUIET MAN, I would have remembered it. (And PS... it TOOK me some looking to find it by the way... but I DID manage to find what I was looking for)

 

WAY back on October 24th, 2008 at 5:47 PM (buried DEEP within the treasure trove that is the beloved and revered RAMBLES SR. thread) Frank Grimes wrote:

 

*I wasn't too keen on the ending. It was a little too goofy for me*

 

Ok... he thought it was a little "goofy" He wasn't too KEEN on it... but HATE???? I don't think so. Let the record show that the "H" word is NO where to be found.

 

I say again.. "chain yanker" ha. (We are WISE to your ways Mr. Grey)

 

And PS.... the end to Wagon Master is a GOOD way to show the "optimism" that Miss G and Jackie both have mentioned. It shows the expectation and enthusiasm of reaching a "promised land" so to speak... an answer to prayer... a moment of faith realized and rewarded for some.. and perhaps faith found for others... or maybe just "hope" found, instead. Either way... it is not fair to compare the end of this film to other westerns. It is not so much a western but rather almost a form of folk art in a way... a story about a "pilgrimage" that happens to take place in the west... at least in my mind anyway...

 

At any rate... I know you like to say that you are Mr. "I like messy endings and hate happiness" ha. BUT... I just discoved YESTERDAY that THAT is a bit of "chain yanking" on your part as well... So don't MAKE me have to go do another copy and paste again, mister.

 

Oh good golly... HATE indeed...

 

I was being dramatic.

 

OH SURE... look at him trying to back peddle already.. you knew I was coming to get you, didn't you????

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Feb 25, 2010 1:47 AM

[Wagon Master (1950) - January 16, 2009 1:00 p.m. EST]

Oh my gosh, my golly... Well done, Ms Favell...

 

The film moves like a bright, beautiful sparkling stream in the sunlight. It flows along like a river past the little problems and dalliances of the cast of characters. It pools and eddies, only to flow along stronger for each rock or pebble they encounter on the way. It flows on inexorably to it's destination

 

Little Scotchie and Miss G have said it best: Poetry... Literature. (no "blabbage" to be found ANYWHERE.) :-) Just some lovely, heartfelt, and well written emotion. (and also.. as always... your way with the screencaps to bring out your points as you go along... very well done.)

 

Thanks very much for sharing this with us. I am so glad to see this film getting the attention it has deserved this past year or so... and now to see this added to it all... another "jewel" in its crown.... a "bright beautiful sparkling" one at that. :-)

 

I say again, my friend, well done.

[RAMBLES Part II]

(Okay, okay...what the heck IS a dale?)

 

Ha... your guess is a good as mine, young'un. ha.

 

Pick one: ha.

 

 

[RAMBLES Part II]

Hello, my DEAR Grey Guy

 

And you should know I'm being tough on you because, well, I like being tough on you. I like that you push me back

 

I DO know it. You keep me on my "muddy" toes. ha. And I like being tough on you too, sir. ha. And I am glad you like me to push back.. ha. You are fun to push around... but you are NO pushover. You always present your case in a well thought out way (despite all your wrongheadedness).. ha.. (ok.. that last bit was just me being tough on you.. ha)

 

You're no shrinking violet. More like a shrieking one

 

Ha.. I WOULD give you grief about calling me a name like that.. but with the kind of weather we've been having lately.. by golly a flower is a flower.. ha.(So I will take it as a compliment. HA!)

 

 

You know, the value of discussions like this, for me, is that you (and others) make me think. Sometimes I'm pushed to think about something I think I know and sometimes it's about something I didn't even consider. I like that.

 

Well we have nothing to argue about THERE my ramblin' friend. That is one of the things I value about all this blabbing too. ha. I do enjoy a good gab and I like it when all the various ideas can be laid on the table (WITHOUT the bloodbath part, ha) and everybody can come away with maybe a little different perspective... even if they still hold on to the one they started with too.

 

For example, I was just thinking, how would I feel if my daughter told me, "Dad, I'm in love with a married man"? My answer: I wouldn't like it... one bit

 

And there you have it. It IS a lot to think about, when you stop and think about it. And for whatever reason.. that is all I seemed to think about once this story got started... (Not so much of the "I think adultery is wrong" this time... but more "I don't think adultery is going to make Charlotte (or Jerry that matter) really happy at the end of the day)

 

 

I fully respect marriage.

 

So, I actually come down on your side when it comes to the rights and wrongs of love. This makes Now, Voyager all the more fascinating to me. It goes against my beliefs, yet I found it wonderful. Remarkable.

 

 

And see.. I said this yesterday, but I think that is how Now Voyager was maybe intended to be viewed... more about the individual people and their plight... (especially Charlotte's journy OUT of her old self and into the new) and not so much as a "glorification" of an affair. And I really don't see it as "glorified" adultery... but the fact remains that IS what this story ends up with at the end of the day... we are supposed to be happy for both these people (and Tina too) that they have found one another and are going to go for whatever happiness they can finally have together... But I guess what it boils down to is... I was unbable to do this personally because I was not in agreement that it really WAS going to lead to their ulitmate happiness. (especially not Charlotte's) I think you are right.. She IS going to reach a point someday where it is NOT enough to only get PART of Jerry's life... (or even Tina's for that matter) and it will become harder and harder for her to accept this, the longer she is in that relationship. So again, I am trying to say is that I just had to hard a time forgetting all that to like the story as much as I WISHED I could.

 

 

(and PS Miss G:) Not so lonely. When it comes to the adultery angle, I am with you. It is like Maven and Frank said, the movie really messes with our emotions and that's what I get caught up in, instead of the real issue at hand which you are right not to lose sight of. Maybe I want to believe what the poet said, that it is still better for Charlotte to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. She certainly shows herself to have become a better or happier person because of the encounter and she truly does not want to rob another woman of her husband and security (I won't say "happiness" because the wife evidently is one who takes pleasure from unhappiness).

 

I was trying to explain yesterday to Miss Maven how I tend to take movies too personally sometimes. I ALWAYS think of the "what if's" (like the Grey Guy's scenario w/ a daughter for instance) Or at least I usually do. It is rare for me to see a film like this one and not take it to heart. It IS an emotioanal story. And the characters are very sympathetic. That is what makes it so much a favorite with so many, I am sure. But I am such a "dope" sometimes and it is hard for me to watch a movie any other way than without my "world view" and my "here's where I stand on that issue" attatched. So consequently, I bring all my cards to the table everywhere I go, so to speak. Ha. And that is sometimes a LOT of baggage (or should I say "blabbage" ha) when it comes time for me to explain what I THINK about a movie or a storyline or a character... but it's who I am.. ha. It's what I do. :-) But I do appreciate folks putting up with me and my "whacky" thoughts. ha.

 

And I am glad to hear this time that I am not so alone on my mountaintop as I thought. (ha) Thanks everybody.

 

You caught me. No, you are RIGHT, I certainly like my share of happy endings. They are often predictable, but still enjoyable. Most of my favorites have "happy endings."

 

ANOTHER breakthrough moment. ha. You heard it first HERE folks. Ha. (Maybe Miss Maven was right when she told Molo THIS place was therapy.. ha. I discovered I am a CONTROL freak.. and YOU (my DEAR Mr. Grey") are just a big fluffy marshmallow SOFTIE, afterall. ha. What a moment.

 

Ha.. Who needs a doctor when we have "Rambles JR"??? Ha.

 

So you would tell the doctor, "the heck with losing him forever, I'm doing it my way!" Yeah, that sounds like you

 

Ha.. I say again.. WHO needs a Doctor??? ha. (ok.. I take that back.. ha. The next time I NEED major surgery or even a bandaid. ha I DO.. sorry all you medical folks) ha. But NO kidding.. I would NOT allow my husband to go NEARLY so far down his amnesiac path as to start to make WEDDING PLANS with someone else (right in front of me, no less) without finding SOME way to tell him the TRUTH. (those post it notes were NO joke, mister. Ha.. that QT is mine all mine all MINE. ha.)

 

But I believe Doniphon still loved Hallie and died loving her despite her being married. I believe he died lonely and heartbroken. I'm not sure if that was ever spoken, it's just how I envision it. So Doniphon is the "Charlotte" in the triangle, for he is the unmarried one in love. He's loving her from afar. And he knows she's never coming back to him.

 

OK... you got me there. (and after I was feeling all "smug" and proud of myself about my "camelias and cacti" crack. ha). I do agree with your comparison told from that angle.

 

He would have probably agreed with you when you told him, "get over it, pilgrim

 

Maybe... ha. Right after he SOCKED me in the jaw and stormed out.. ha. He IS the Duke afer all. Ha. :-)

[Western Movie Rambles]

Wow.. I just looked in here and LOOK at what I find.. hmmmm....

 

the discussion here has made me want to watch the remake

 

I have been torn for so long on that one.. ha. "To watch or not to watch.. that is the question" ha. I liked the original VERY much... I also recall a long drawn out chat a long time ago where the Grey Dude told me he thought the new one was more than I could handle (from a blood and guts point of view, ha) but I THINK I set him straight on THAT... ha. Although I am not a "gratuitous" violence kinda gal... I am NOT so delicate as all THAT) so WHO knows???? ha.

 

Anyway.. I am "torn" all over again. For pity's sake.. ha. I am such a doofus sometimes. ha.

[RAMBLES Part II]

Mrs. Unromantic

 

OH brother... I make ONE little "comment" and... (ha... ok so it was longer than a "little comment'.. more like a LONG drawn out blab fest..ha.) Anyway... I am NOT unromantic... I am just... I don't know.. too demanding. ha. I want things MY way. ha. (did you read my 'break through moment in my last post to Miss Maven?? I have just discovered I am a control freak. ha)

 

So... how's it going Mr Bleeding Heart?? ha.

 

I always think a happy ending is much too tidy. I love messes. But you know this already. You know I find tragedy to be more thought-provoking and more emotional.

 

ALWAYS??? Surely not. I mean... I can see the benefit of a "unhappy ending" now and then I do admit sometimes it is better for the story as a whole ( afterall.. ha.. I HAVE been hanging out with YOU lately and watching more "tragedy" and NOIR-ISHness... ha) But does it ALWAYS have to be "messy"?? Can't there be a happy ending SOMETIMES??? (and by happy I mean...not just all smiles and sunshine... but some sort of good outcome for the major characters and a resoltion to the conflict in the story. Surely you can't be opposed to that ALL the time can you??? (Hey.. didn't Top Secret at least end on a happy note???)

 

So you would prefer an ending where Paula and Smithy stay apart. Me, too! It makes more sense.

 

OH no, no, no... ha. That would NEVER do. And PS: I know what I would do if it were ME and the QT suddenly could not recall who either of us were.. I would not CARE what anyone said to me... I would make SURE he knew the truth about who I was (even if he did not remember who HE was, ha) I would not sit around idly by and watch him make wedding plans with someone else..without telling him the truth, for crying out loud. He is going to KNOW who I am.... (ha.. although there likely HAVE been times when he wishes he COULD forget.. ha... Maybe I should paste a post it note on his forehead every day (written backwards) with his name and address and saying "Your name is QT and you are married to Kathy" so if he suddenly gets amnesia.. he won't have any excuse for not finding his way home.. ha. All he has to do is look in a mirror. (Note to self.. go buy some post it notes and glue) HA.

 

Now, Voyager is an unresolved love story. It's also a film of adultery. Just Charlotte's luck

 

Well that would be the "short" version. See.. you could have written my whole ramble for me in one line.. ha. Instead of me blabbing on and on like that. ha.

 

And PS... you caps do tell a pretty clear story as to Charlotte's state of mind. Good job with that sir. I know that there is truth in all you say. But I am steadfast in my "adultery is not ever a good answer and RARELY ever leads to true happiness when all is said and done" mindset... I know.. I am a stick in the mud.. I likely just need to "lighten up" and watch the movie. ha. And not think so hard about it I guess. Instead I guess I will just be the outcast on this one and hang out on my lonely mountaintop... ha. I have some ropes I need to freeze anyway... (ha)

 

I believe you speak for not only woman but also man. Naked.

 

OH golly.. ha. I hope if someone is going to speak for all those folks they will be more coherent than I am , ha. But thanks for seeing it that way. (and PS... just a tip here... "naked" in terms of emotion and being HONEST about who you are with the one you love.. is the ONLY way to dress for success.)

 

Noooooooooooooooooooo! That's not a good ending! It's way too tidy! Blech! I want the mess! I want the Doniphon story!

 

I am having trouble with that comparison because (among other things) although I DO see how Tom had to choose to walk away.. he was the one being left.... more or less. HE would be "the mean wife" instead of Charllotte in this story.. Apples and Oranges, my friend... or should I say.. Camelias and Cacti... ha. :-)

 

PS Miss Maven... no problem on the Raisinettes.. ha. I am more of a "Junior Mint" kinda gal. ha.

 

PSS: Mr. Madhat Molo: I'll be back soon. I promised Kathy I would get back to TBYOOL. She's been surprisingly patient with me......

 

Too Patient! Something's up

 

Well.... didn't you just read?? I am ABLE to be patient because I am up on my lonely mountaintop right now.. I have all the time in the world to get my frozen ropes sorted out and ready... I NEVER know when one will come in handy... (BIG hint, ha)

[RAMBLES Part II]

Hello there Miss Maven...

 

and thanks for understanding my post. You and Jackie and Miss G... and even FRANK (I know.. gasp) likely have the right attitude about how this story should be viewed and I am just too "locked in" to my little black and white world. ha. I DO tend to personalize movies a bit more than I should (I am forever thinking "What would I do or say or think if..." and sometimes I wonder if my tastes in story lines would change more if I could just forget all that and just "go" with what is happening on screen.

 

But you know.. I always try to find at least ONE character in a story to relate to... so you are right..ha. All that stuff I wrote WOULD be the same advice I'd give to a friend. And if Charlotte were to come to me and say "Oh Ro, but I love him so".. ha. I'd have to tell her the same things I said here..

"I want better for you, young'un."

 

Scary.

 

Ha.. your example was PERFECT about how we sometime wish for something in a movie that we would NOT want to see happen in real life. I guess I take movies and stories TOO much to heart sometimes. They become too real for me and when I start to care about the characters, I am forever wanting to throw something at the tv when I see someone making a BAD choice.. or sometimes I just want to jump in the tv and give some poor person a hug when their heart is breaking.. I say again.. I guess I take it too personal. I have too hard a time seperating what I would say or think in real life from what I see on screen sometimes.... I want everyone to be happy... ha.. sentimental sap that I am. ha.

 

I?m emotional about movies. I can?t explain it. It won?t make sense, but some get it. And I'm blessed and lucky for those that do. I really enjoy ?Now, Voyager.? Is it true to a psychologically sound life...maybe not. But it touches me. In real life, about my life, I?m more careful...weigh things. I?m a Capricorn....we think and weigh and weigh and think...all kinds of stuff. But with movies...I totally give myself to them

 

See, now THAT's the way NV was likely meant to be viewed. I am just too much of a control freak to enjoy it.. ha. I want all my movie characters to do what is right because I know (or I THINK I know) it will be the best thing for them in the end.. ha. (OH golly.. ha. I AM a control freak, ain't I??? ha. I am such a doofus sometimes.)

 

And if you read scripts Ro...I'd like to share one with you. You can help me keep my characters on the straight and narrow. Flaws and all.

 

Ha.. I have never read any scripts before.. ha. But as we just learned.. as much as I would likely enjoy the read (so feel FREE to share one with me ANYTIME, young'un) I likely would be the last person you want to go to for help w/ your characters.. ha. I am too bossy for their own good. Ha.)

[RAMBLES Part II]

Hello there my little OK Kid...

 

They were 'sympatico'. You can;t control it, you can't plan it. You can walk away, and yes, Ro, that would be the hard thing to do and the right thing, but we aren't always about the right thing. How could this woman throw away love with both hands? I also agree with Frank that there must be an element of passion included in that love, without it, it isn't love it is simply comfort.

 

I totally understand WHY folks like this film. The "romance" factor is way off the charts... and it IS easy to have sympathy for Charlotte and Jerry.. and their plight. I don't think EITHER of them set out to be "loose" or have some sort of illicit "fling", etc... And I do agree with you about why those two loved one another. So I know my thoughts are in the minority on this one... I am too "cut and dried" sometimes, maybe, but I just see some of it differntly (about whether she should have stayed or moved on)

 

But isn't it fun that we can see things SO differently.... and yet we BOTH can still be SHOCKED and appalled that you would agree with FRANK!!! (ha) KIDDING!!! Only kidding. ha.

 

What I really was going to say was that it is fun to be able to see the same movie and walk away on completely different sides of the issue and still end up friends at the end of the day. (At least I HOPE that is the case.. ha. Don't all you gals start throwing stuff at me all at once..ha)

 

PS Ms Cutter: Guess I am just a lucky old-fashioned kind of girl. Glad to know I'm not the only one

 

Me too!! :-)

[RAMBLES Part II]

Aren't most love stories with a happy ending "contrived"?

 

NO!!! Why does it have to be a "contrived" tale for there to be a happy ending? Oh for pity sakes.. look who I am talking to..

 

What makes this one different? The amnesia? How about the effects of war on man and relationships?

 

(spoiler)

I don't know.. maybe it was the whole " He's got DOUBLE amnesia...first when he MET Greer.. and THEN after he married her... and then he almost marries someone else.. and then Greer is right there staying QUIET about who she is... until he figures it all out on his own" thing.. it was just too much. (at least for me)

 

I can't believe I like a Greer Garson movie more than you. This is distressing. But at least it will prove how sweet and loving I am

 

I know.. hard to believe, isn't it??? But as for anything proving how SWEET and loving you are?? I think it will take MORE than that.

 

Ohhhhhhhhhhh! And here I was thinking you were going to go all moral on me!

 

Well.. I did not want to turn this thing into a blood bath.. ha. But there WAS that aspect of things to consider TOO. :-) I generally just do not like characters who commit (and decide to stay) in a relationship like that. If adultery is brought into a storyline. I like it to be resolved.... and I did not see that happen really in this film. So... yeah.. that was an issue for me to. (but again.. I do not want to sound judgemental.. I just wish the whole story would have gone a different direction... but I guess that is why nobody is out there paying ME the big bucks to write it.. ha)

 

So you wanted Charlotte (Bette) to demand the divorce.

 

No, not really. I think what I really wanted was for her to "move on" to better things. If she HAD to have a relationship with him, then I think I wanted her to look on the whole thing as a a chance to learn HOW to love and then go find someone who COULD be free to love her (and free for her to love). Or maybe she moves on and realizes she can have a full life without having a "love" interest in it. Sometimes it is better to be alone than in the wrong relationship.. and I am with you.. eventually I think she will come to realize that what she THOUGHT was going to be "enough" for her.. will not make her happy in the end. (at least I hope she would)

 

And I really can't say she settled. Keep in mind, she was close to marrying another man but she called off the engagement because she was lying to herself. It would have been unfair to not only her, but to Elliot (John Loder).

 

I agree it would not have been right for her to marry the other guy. And that goes back to what I was saying.. who said she HAD to marry (or be attatched to) anyone at all to end up happy? Now I know.. I am saying that as an old married woman.. ha. It is easy for me to sound all smug and say.. people can be happy being single... the truth is.. it is NOT always easy.

 

I lived alone for 7 years before I met and married the QT.. (and I am eternally grateful for my husband and for the nearly 17 years we have been married. He is the best man I ever met) But I have to say.. had he not clearly been the right man for me.. I HOPE I would not have married him. When I lived alone... sometimes I dated now and then. and sometimes I did not (And there were times then that I wondered if I ever would marry at all) But I can tell you that it was NOT the end of the world for me to be alone (when I was alone). It was FAR better than being with the wrong man... and I came very close to marrying the wrong man once.. ha.. so I do know a bit about what I am saying here And NO.. he was not married to someone else.. but he was just not the right person for me. (But THAT is a TOTALLY uninteresting and UNnecessary story to tell... so I will leave it at that)

 

So I gues that what I am saying in all this is... I think I would have rather seen Charlotte alone and strong and independent (maybe a little older and wiser) than to see her either A) married to the WRONG man OR staying attatched to someone who was not really hers to stay with. (But again, I know I may not be in the majority with that one. I ask again.. "Who do I think I am?" ha)

 

What Charlotte wants is what I think every woman wants and that's for a man to stir them... inside

 

Ok... let me see if I can say this in a way that makes sense.... I won't try to speak for every woman.. but what I personally really want (and am again ETERNALLY grateful to have found in my husband) is a man who understands and accepts me for WHO I am and not what he THINKS I am. I want to be wanted for ME.

 

And maybe that is how Jerry felt about Charlotte... and she for him... But she was not his to feel that way for.. (and vice versa) so their relationship was never going to reach the kind of depth I am talking about.. because it is something that develops over time and through closeness with one another.

 

Romance can be a very deceptive thing sometimes. Everybody THINKS they know what they want and what will make them happy.. but the truth is... sometimes what you GET ends up being the last thing in the world that will truly bring you happiness in life. It takes a very discerning heart to understand the difference between "romantic" feelings or passion (that may be fleeting) and the kind of true love that deepens and grows over time. And THAT is what I really want from my marriage. And maybe that is what Charlotte THOUGHT she had with Jerry.. but I just don't see it that way... (again.. I am sure others may have a different point of view... but this is just my own opinion)

 

You are right, Tina will eventually have to move on, but I don't think it needs to be now. For the first time in her life, she is happy. Why look to force her to deal with something so soon when she just found her happiness? That would be devastating. She's only 12. Charlotte was in her 20s when she was able to come out of her shell. I say let Tina be happy for a while.

 

I don't know. Maybe you are right. But what I would have loved to have seen was a scenario where Charlotte moves on (after getting Tina started) and then meets up w/ Jerry and Tina later in life.. maybe when Tina is getting married and Charlotte and Jerry either A) are free to marry now because the evil wife is TOAST..ha. OR... Charlotte can look back and see she has made the right choice to move on because her life turned out OK... (either married to someone else or single) and Tina's life turned out ok too... thanks to the early nudge Charlotte gave her way back when. And Jerry is grateful to her for his daughter's sake.. and glad to learn Charlotte found happiness on her own.

 

ANY of those scenarios would have made me happier than the real ending. (But who am I to say? ha.. Did I mention that is likely why nobody is paying ME the big bucks?? ) ha.

[RAMBLES Part II]

Good evening Grey guy...

 

You're quite convincing. You'd definitely own me

 

Ha.... the way you talk sometimes... I think I better DISown you, darlin' sonny boy.. Ha.

 

For one of the very few times, she made some real sense to me. She must be tanked

 

I rest my case... Frank Grimes.. you are officially disowned. (As if THAT will make any difference, ha)

 

What?! Ohhhh, you're nothing but wonderful surprises today. More conflict! Perfect! Let me grab some pillows for you. Or do you prefer mud? You always talk about your toes.

 

Ha..... I will take the mud. It will make a bigger impact on you when I throw it.

 

Okay, spill the beans. I have to hear your reasons why you're not so keen on Random Harvest. Is it because Greer didn't kill enough men?

 

Uh.... it has been a LONG long time since I saw that movie... but I don't remember her killing anyone. (maybe I have amnesia..ha) Anyway.. my main complaint.. (all you RH fans out there... cover your eyes) It is just too "soap opera-ish" and a bit "contrived. Or at least it felt that way to me. (I know... I know... that sounded harsh. And I call myself a "romance movie" fan... Don't everybody throw stuff at me all at once)

 

Well, I've been playing possum because I watched Now, Voyager last night

 

OH good grief, Mr. "Close to the Vest"... remind me not to play poker w/ YOU. (not that I play poker..ha. I am more of a "Hearts" and "Pitch" player..ha)

 

SPOILER: Does your problem stem from Jerry (Paul Henreid) being married?

 

More or less.... And I don't want to come off sounding judgemental about it. Because I DO think she more or less resisted the actual physical "affair"(for the most part) or tried to anyway. But I also think she settled. I wanted MORE for her than to wish for the stars..ha. I think she deserved the moon.. but she did not allow herself to wish for it. So in my mind she set her sites too low.

 

She settled for a relationship with someone else's husband. And as "honorable" as he was to stay married... and as strong as she tried to be to avoid him, no matter what... I just have issues with her still wanting to be "his" and him still wanting to be with her... so long as he remained married to someone else.

 

To move on with her life.. and truly move away from that situation would have been VERY hard, I do understand that. Because I think it is possible for a person to love another person (who is married to someone else). It is not a perfect world. But in stories like this, I would much rather see the strength of character it takes to walk away from that situation altogether and move on with your life (completely) than to stay and struggle through it like she did (just settling for and taking those crumbs when you can get them, so to speak, because you think they were better than not having anything at all)

 

Now having said all that... WHAT about Tina??? I think the scenes w/ Charlotte and Tina are WONDERFUL. And I like the friendship between her and the young girl (especially at the beginning). But to me, I just wish she had not gone so "all out" and rather just given Tina that "start" she needed and then moved on. To me... Tina needed to learn to live the life she was dealt and Charlotte ended up giving HER an "altered" view of reality... in the form a "mother figure" that really wasn't her mother at all. Charlotte COULD have been a friend to her... but to take on such a complete and absolute role like that in Tina's life... to me, it only helped her to AVOID reality.. not learn to live within it. Don't get me wrong.. I am glad Tina had someone to love her and help care for her... but I just had some issues with it all. (I know.. .I sound heartless now, don't I??? Who do I think I am?? ha)

 

Anyway.. I wish it had all gone a different way in the end of things. I did not like to see Charlotte settle for a "pseudo" family... and that to me is what she got. Oh the love she had for them both was real.... and the love they had for her as well, but the relationship were not hers to have... with Tina OR Jerry... and so to me, she settled for less than the real thing in that regard and she cheated herself.

 

Now I should admit that it has been some time since I saw this film too (and I have only seen it once) so I may not be remembering everything exactly as I would if I had just watched it recently.. and I also know not too many people are going to agree with me about some of what I have said... so I won't even try to defend my thoughts... but this is just more or less how I felt about it.

 

thought Elizabeth was fairly similar to her mother. The one who wasn't was Lydia (Ann Rutherford

 

I think the other gals have had done a GOOD job of setting you straight on THAT..ha. So I won't waste too much more breath trying..ha. But I will say that the way I veiw Elizabeth... is that she is smarter (and more sensible) than BOTH of her parents. Her mother is a busy body and cares LITTLE for anything but herself and her family's social status... and she is WAY too obvious about it... she doesn't even TRY to hide her schemes. And the father is FAR too tolerant of the nonsense from his wife (and some of the other girls) and would rather hide in his study than make them behave. Elizabeth is the one who tries to keep everything together. (Out of love for her father.. and embarassment for her mother)

 

Yeah, but what about his family? Both would be full of snobbery

 

Well, you do have a point there. ha. Both their families had a LOT of less than desirable traits, ha. They come from such "flawed" ancestry, ha...hopefully they will cancel each other out (in the gene pool) and their children will be PERFECT. ha. (And.. THAT is what will hopefully happen for the kidling too someday when SHE marries. HA!!) :-)

 

You're not a snob. You're wrong, but not a snob

 

Ha.. I don't know whether to thank you.. or hit YOU with a rock. (and ps.. now that you have read what I had to say about NV.. ha. You MAY want to rethink that whole "you're not a snob" comment.. I am sure others will disagree... ha. I am pitching my lonely tent up on that mountain side again... shades of "The Furies".. ha. I feel so all alone already)

[RAMBLES Part II]

Hello there Jabez...

 

Oh, stop! I was completely teasing you. I

 

I KNOW... ha. And I was "guilting" you for it, sonny boy..ha. We Ma's have our ways. :-)

 

I just can't believe this is the stuff of "Best Actress

 

You may be right about that part... I will defer to you and the Goddess (because I think she came up w/ a plausible explanation for it) but I have to say that of the two films you were comparing for Greer... (MM and RH) I tend to prefer MM... I am not so big on RH as some... I know.. first Now Voyager and then THIS.. ha. DON'T let it get around.. ha... I don't want to be drummed out of the "chick flick" club.) Ha!!!

 

All right! So we've got a difference of opinion between you and Jackie. Perfect! Now I MUST watch the film to see if I agree with you or Spunky. I'm curious to know what bothers you about the love story. Interesting. Way to sell a flick!

 

Ha... Jackie and I likely do agree on MOST points of the story.. I do like parts of NV very much.. my biggest criticism is in the events surrounding the love story.... and after reading all my other many "blabbings" on here about all things black, white, and grey..ha... without giving anything away... I bet once you watch it you will understand why) Jackie knows me pretty good.. ha. She already has it figured out.

 

Who wants to watch a nosey mother trying to marry off her daughters to rich snobs? And they call this love? Dreadful!

 

NO way.. ha. You are being "purposefully obtuse" ha. There is NO way anyone could watch that film and think THAT is what the story was about. Not even YOU... ha. That mom had NOTHING to do with the "love story" between Elizabeth and Darcy. OH my golly. (in fact.. the mom and most of the sisters were so doggone annoying I wanted to hit them with a big fat ROCK. ha) . THANKFULLY Elizabeth was NOTHING like her mother. ha. But imagine the family dinners poor Darcy had to put up with after he married in to THAT family.. UGH. Boy... I bet he stuffed his ears with cotten every Christmas so he would not have to listen to that biddy go on and on and on. HA!

 

(probably what YOU would do if I were gabbing instead of TYPING all this... but THAT is because you just don't want to admit how wrongheaded you are) :p

[RAMBLES Part II]

PS: Jackie...

 

Cornel Wilde.. I had NO idea... woo wee! :-)