Stephen444

>Were they always mentally unstable or what? >I don't suppose there are any easy answers. Yeah, but that's what is so interesting... the ambiguity of their personalities and the world that they lived in. I think we are all attracted to the tragedy and glamour of their lives. It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. Message was edited by: Stephen444

>drednm wrote...I thought Jeanne Triplehorne was lousy as Jackie Kennedy. I don't agree. This story wasn't about Jackie and I appreciate that the actress that played her didn't overplay the part. It was important for her to be present but just as a supporting figure in the background.

Ever notice how many photos there are of Jackie wearing a head scarf? Not to the extreme of Little Edie but maybe it was a Bouvier thing.

>No, I think it was Drew. I thought you meant, for us to see a recreation of the act, not the actual performance by the real little Edie. I think seeing the real performance would have completed the story. What a great addition this would have made to the HBO DVD. But the question is was her act recorded?

>Watch Grey Gardens the 1975 documentary film which is alot better! Apples and oranges. The 1975 film is a documentary the HBO film is a drama of their lives.

>In the movie or in the documentary? I thought we did see here cabaret act - over the end credits. Ahh!, was that the real Little Edie? I thought that was Drew. I'll have to look at it again. > it could have been better! I thought the later scenes in the movie looked a little too neat compared to the filthy conditions that you can clearly see in the documentary....the beds and walls definitely looked less filthy in the movie.

I agree that it is an uplifting, positive story although, as you say, a skewed one. There is much to be appalled by in the decay of their living conditions but I don't think that you can say it was all their doing. Their living circumstances were certainly tied to the power that the men in their lives had over them. I don't think that they would have chosen to live the way they did if they had the means to maintain Grey Gardens as it should have been. These were pampered women who were not very domestic but who aspired to be artistic. I think one of the main ideas that I got out of the movie was Big Eddie's obsession with holding onto Grey Gardens. Aside from practical considerations of the money needed to run this home it was made clear that Big Edie considered it part of her identity as a person and would never leave there. On some level Big Edie reminds me of the Ruth Wilcox character in "Howard's End". She also had an obsession for her country house while other family members looked down on it. Of course the similarity ends there as Grey Gardens sunk into hopeless disrepair. You bring up an interesting point about Little Edie's later Cabaret act. I would also love to see it. If it wasn't filmed we lost a significant element in her story.

One fact in the movie that seems to have been blurred for artistic considerations was the year that Mr. Beale leaves Big Edie. In the movie this is portrayed as the year of Little Edie's introduction to society in 1936 but, according to what I've read, he left Big Edie in 1931. Portraying the break up in the 1936 time certainly made a more dramatic exit. It's interesting that you selected a photo that shows the Beale women in their more affluent days. Little Edie doesn't even have her patented head scarf.

I just rented this movie. I thought it was an excellent film. Drew Barrymore and Jessica Lange were first rate. It's much more interesting if you've seen the 1975 documentary, Grey Gardens. I think that the movie captures the mystique of the Bouvier's and it's connection to the Kennedy's with a large dose of decaying grandeur. Many of these historical stories don't come off very well but I thought that both Lange and Barrymore captured the dialect accurately. Again seeing the documentary first will add to the appreciation of this film.

Yeah, too bad they were on so late. Especially East of Eden. This film is so seldom shown and at inconvenient times unless you are a night owl. It's like our local tv stations that are always promoting some investigative story that will be shown on the 11:00 NEWS. Sorry no way in h... I'm going to see it. I shut down at about 10 since I have to be up at 5:30 in the morning. I would prefer the premier features of the day to be on at 6:00 (dinner time) and 8:00.

My vote for most unhappy endings goes to "Looking for Mr. Goodbar". I can deal with unhappines but a story like this that shows no direction or purpose to life is depressing. It's still a good film though.

I didn't read all the comments on this thread but personally I was surprised at how much younger the real Nixon was compared with the movie. I thought that Frank Langella captured the essence of Nixon's personality but a physically older Nixon. This could be due to the fact that Langella is 70 Nixon was only 64 in 1977. Conversely I thought that Michael Sheen portrayed a younger looking David Frost, although he was actually 2 years older then the real Frost was in 1977. Aside from these observations I think that this is still a fine film and worth seeing. I would encourage those seeing it to also look at the real interview for comparison Message was edited by: Stephen444

>Izcutter said....The original version of Baby Face was released months before the Production Code took affect in Hollywood in 1934. From FilmBuffOnLine.... Since no standardized ratings system existed at the time, every film was screened by state and often also local film boards who would rule whether or not it was acceptable to be screened for the public. When Warners submitted Baby Face to the New York State Board of Censors, it was rejected for its frank subject matter on April 28, 1933. Since New York City was a financially important market, the studio reworked the film into a more acceptable form. The modified version was released in July 1933

>http://blog.gnumatt.org/archives/2007/7/8/the_propatriarchy_censorship_of_the/ This is the best review that I have read on Baby Face. Thanks Marian. Fred, I didn't know what to make of your comment about Leopold and Leob until I read the link. Wow, what a connection. It just goes to show how everything happening in the world at a particular time is usually connected. Another far flung connection that I was thinking about was the relationship of Ann Rand's philosophy and that of nietze...the individual being responsible for what happens to themselves. And then Barbara Stanwick wanting to play the part of Dominique Francon in "The Fountainhead" (based on Rand's book) Message was edited by: Stephen444

>I have a vague memory of the Nietzsche part being presented in the movie to sort of accompany a point about female empowerment, in order to dominate men. Ah, female empowerment. Now that's something that the public must not be exposed to.

I rented the Baby Face DVD this week from Netflix and would say that it is the most interesting movie that I have rented thus far. I had not seen this movie before, in it's entirety, and then I discovered that the DVD had two versions on it. In addition to the theatrical release version that the public saw in 1933 there was the pre-please original version that was rejected by the New York State Board of Censors. In addition to some more explicit scenes that involved sexual situations the censored version of the film also eliminated all references to the philosopher Frederick Nietzsche. I have found numerous references to the explicit scenes that were left out of the censored version but have only found token mention of the elimination of the Frederick Nietzsche references in the movie. The elimination of the Nietzsche content is as much a part of the censorship of this movie as the sexual content. I wonder why Frederick Nietzsche upset the board of censors as much as the sexual content? Of course Hitler was just hitting his stride at this time but I wouldn't think this would have concerned the censors enough to make such an effort to eliminate it from the movie.

I'm amazed at the number of Best Pictures that I have never seen. This list would include: 08 - Slumdog Millionaire 05 - Crash 04 - Million Dollar Baby, I did see The Aviator, which was excellent. 03 - Lord of the Rings 02 - Chicago 01 - A Beautiful Mind 00 - Gladiator 98 - Shakespeare in Love 96 - The English Patient 95 - Braveheart 94 - Forrest Gump will never watch this 92 - Unforgiven 90 - Dances with Wolves 87 - The Last Emperor 86 - Platoon 82 - Gandi 68 - Oliver 66 - A Man for All Season 55 - I can't believe that East of Eden and Rebel Without a Cause were not even nominated 49 - All the King's Men 48 - Hamlet 47 - Gentleman's Agreement 44 - Going My Way Notice how the number of nominees was downsized after 1943. 32-33 - Cavalcade 30-31 - Cimarron 27-28 - Wings

Why doesn't TCM have a chat room?

I recently watched "Mommy Dearest" with Water's commentary. I think it's one of the most entertaining and interesting insights into this film that has been made. I think that his homosexuality adds to his observations about Crawford without going over the top. He is funny, intelligent and he gives a fresh point of view that is well worth watching. He has also written a very good book about Baltimore, although I don't remember the title off hand, that has fresh observations about the city.

> Divine's quest to be "The Filthiest Person Alive" Of course Pink Flamingos is disgusting. That was what the story was about. And let's not forget the final memorable doggy scene at the end (no pun intended) that is etched in everyone's mind that has seen this film. I have enjoyed most of the Water's films that I have seen. Of course you can't compare his early films with the slicker one's like Serial Mom. It is admirable that all of his films have been filmed in his hometown of Baltimore that, I think, have given them a unique style.

>Hitch had a different ending for Suspicion but went with the more commercially pleasing ending. I won't say what it is and spoil it for those here who haven't seen the movie, but those who have know what I mean. Yeah, a darker more interesting ending. Sorry, but unhappiness, evil is usually more interesting then virtue.

The term "Woman's Movie" gets me in trouble when I use it around my wife but it is a useful stereotype to apply to some films. I would certainly not apply it to "The Women". This is a fine film with entirely too much substance to be labeled a Woman's movie. I also disagree that it is more appreciated by gays. I find the glamor of the Adrian fashion show to still be very sexy and sophisticated today. All of the performances are first rate. You may possibly apply "Woman's Movie" to the 2008 remake of "The Women", although I didn't see it but understand that it was dreadful. For me "Woman's Movie" requires that emotions have taken control without the counterbalance of logic. I recently watched Ken Russell's "Lady Chatterley's Lover" which I found to be full of schmaltz in contrast to Russell's other D.H. Lawrence story, "Women In Love" which was full of emotion but was a much more inspired production.

>Can you ever imagine that commercials on the big screen! I didn't realize that commercials were in the theatres in the 80s. The local commercial productions sound interesting but the slick corporate ones that you are subjected to today are insulting to your intelligence. I'm paying money for the privilege of seeing these dreary promotions. There is less and less creativity in our lives. The bean counters have prevailed!

>They seem to be doing that a bit less these days, though. That's unfortunate. It's always important to be aware of the kind of world that existed at the time a particular movie was made. If you look at 1968, when "2001" was made, it becomes obvious how advanced this movie was for it's time. The technology still looks believable to me 41 years later.

Yeah, I can still remember going to the movies in the 50s and seeing a Warner Bros. Road Runner cartoon. It was really an experience to see these particular cartoons on a big screen. I think the scale of the big screen is more important in some shorts and films then others. The Road Runner cartoons certainly fall into this category.