primosprimos
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Posts posted by primosprimos
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I watched this interview the last time it aired. I saw it was scheduled again and have DVR'd it again to rewatch. This was one of my favorite Private Screenings. Lauren Bacall led an amazing life and to hear her tell stories about her career was fascinating. I loved the part when she yelled at her dog. It was funny and really added something to the interview. I know it was unscripted; but it was funny to hear Bacall yelling at her dog like we all do to ours on occasion. It kind of added a "down to earthness" to her. Wasn't the interview done in her NYC apartment?
Wish I had seen that interview. Still don't know how she let Robards near her, but needs must I guess.
What a dame. Dark Passage was just on, and hoo boy, Bogie and Baby together. The most romantic and sexiest couple on the silver screen.
That building at the end with the multiple fire escapes - wasn't that the same one in It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World?
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What ELSE do you expect? After all, the "M" in TCM stands for "MOVIES"----NOT "Mankiewicz".
Sepiatone
And RO is still the biggest hawker the station has. Manky is in short pants when it comes to shilling for the station.
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Help a goy out here, what's a mensch?
A nice guy.
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Where is this Shout site? I'd love to see Amos and Andy again, the TV version that is.
You can buy every episode of Amos 'n' Andy on ebay for $16.99, with free shipping. That's $16.99 for all 74 of them, not $16.99 each. These have been easily available for many years.
Ebay also lists 36 VHS tapes of Song of the South, all of which can be converted to DVD. There's nothing stopping anyone from seeing this movie if he really wants to.
Thanks, Andy. I was curious because the Shout site doesn't show up in Google.
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Isn't it funny when after a movie when ben dsicusses the film or actor,he might mention a classic film that t.c.m has not shown yet and may never be shown?.Is he trying to give a hint to his bosses to put out more variety of classic films? Proabably not.He's just making his conversation more interesting with non t.cm film classics.He's like the rest any how ,in my opinion, a fan of corporate controll clasic film.What's not put out They can live without.
He's a regular mensch now. You shoulda seen (and heard) him when he had facial hair!
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Well I agree with Andy here assuming TB that I understand your position here. To me this comment by you is very telling:
I don't think criers of racism, as you call them, are sincere-- they are if anything emphatic and determined to block the release of a family film.
You see TB what I hear you saying is that anyone that finds the film offensive really doesn't and they are just saying they do because they wish to block the release of the film. How do you know what motivates these people? Because you found someone that is black that doesn't find the movie offensive?
Again, I feel no film should be censored and I will join anyone in writing to Disney to try to get them to release the film. But I just don't understand why anyone would feel the need throw people that find the film offensive under the bus by claiming they really don't and therefore their POV is dishonest on its face.
For example, how would white people, that wish to release the movie, feel if the NAACP, Al, Jesse etc... said that the real motive of these white folks for wishing to release the film was just to promote racism? Yea, that would be totally unfair as well as insane.
(hey, I can see Al or Jesse doing that but that doesn't make it A-OK, far from it in my view).
As you politely noted james, two out of these three are nuts.
Where is this Shout site? I'd love to see Amos and Andy again, the TV version that is.
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The question being asked by this thread is:
DOES ANYONE FIND SONG OF THE SOUTH (1946) OFFENSIVE...?
It is not "Should Disney re-release this film?". That some people may find aspects of racial stereotyping in the movie and object to the film on that basis is just part of the answer to the question posed.
The film is available, as the OP stated, for those who really want it. But, as there is no big call for it outside of this forum (that I'm aware of), there was no need to take the discussion to questions of its distribution over and above what is already available. There was also no need for people to be accused of "political correctness" for admitting they know that some people find the film offensive.
If one doesn't find the film offensive, that's fine. If one does, that's their prerogative and that's fine too.
It's always interesting how quickly a discussion can go off point - which most people are okay with, being that discussions travel their own path. But then we get someone who all of a sudden declares that the discussion shouldn't be meandering to the other areas where it has gone, even while altering the original topic himself.
Sorry, TopBilled, this is patently false:
The main issue is whether or not a family film is indeed offensive to the vast majority of American audiences (and I suspect that it in reality is not).
The main issue, as darkblue quoted your original question, was:
DOES ANYONE FIND SONG OF THE SOUTH (1946) OFFENSIVE...?
Anyone is a long way away from 'vast majority of American audiences'. Then we're getting into the most territory of most of those most here wanting to see TCM remain exactly as it is.
I personally don't it offensive, and I personally want a separate and distinct TCM Classically Classic channel because I don't like TCM the way it is. I've never been part of the 'vast majority of American audiences' and never will, and never, ever, never will be part of the most here.
See the difference?
Again, I personally don't like anything, including the already in place practice of sanitizing books and movies and television and government records to wipe out all traces of controversy, that even hints at censorship. Didn't like it in 1967, don't like it now. It smacks too much of 1939 to me, thank you very much.
If most of the vast majority of American audience likes censorship, that's their prerogative. But, they can't complain when the evil comes.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
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RE: SOTS. Saw it many years ago, so remember a little of it. However, I am sure that like many, many movies it is offensive to many people. Like GWTW, it also presents a picture of the South that never was even close to true.
BTW, I am white and have lived in the South my entire life. Majored in US History at a Southern college and took a lot of Southern history courses.
Just to be clear. POV means personal observation (observable?) view. What you see from your head's viewpoint. Personal opinion or personal viewpoint is what is being discussed in some of these threads. Not the same thing.
Actually, POV means Point Of View. Not sure to which post you are referring, but POV, imo, means personal opinion.
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Here is a simple way to explain the problem with the movie to someone. Have them go out and talk in public like the cartoon characters do. I guarantee noses will be straightened out real quick, lol.
Same result if any man talked to any woman the way many of the male characters (especially Pat O'Brien) talked to female characters in my beloved classically classic films of the 1930s and 1940s.
Work? You will not work after we're married. You will stay home and watch the kids and clean the house and have my dinner on the table when I get home.
Need I tell you what any normal woman would say to any male who went out in public and said those words?
I still think the film should be available to all and sundry. Censorship and historical cleansing doesn't work. Soon, an entire generation will look up briefly from texting if you ask them what they know about 1939, look at you blankly, shrug, and promptly return to their texting.
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Those good times are gone with the wind, like five-cent Cokes, Burma Shave signs and Anglo-Saxon Miss Americas.
I know. More's the pity.
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What, primos?! Not gonna acknowledge you kind'a "borrowed" that sentence from one of Svengoolie's skits last night???
Yeah, I watched it last night too.
(...oh, and ND...what say we place a name to that "dark-haired babe" you mentioned earlier: "Andra Martin"...and yeah, she sure was a babe alright...though probably NOT the sharpest knife in the ol' drawer in real life, 'cause as Svengoolie mentioned last night, she was once married to Ty Hardin...a guy who's about as crazy as they come!!!)
Not gonna acknowledge you kind'a "borrowed" that sentence from one of Svengoolie's skits last night???
If I did, it was serendipitous. The only 'skit' I saw was him selling the Stickette, funny stuff.
Guess great snarky minds think alike. You never know, maybe he stole it from me.
Didn't realize we were both Boomers. I bet he grew up with Chicago's version of Joe Pyne and Alan Burke and Soupy Sales and Uncle Floyd and Sandy Becker.
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When I saw this movie as a child of seven I thought that all the children-Black and White-were slaves and didn't think anything about it. It was like Christians being Baptist, Catholic or Methodist. When I used the term "white slave" in describing the movie to my mother you can imagine her reaction; it would be years before I learned what the term meant in the modern world.
I want to see this movie so I can appreciate or deride it as an adult. My memories of it are warm like the episodes of Amos & Andy I saw at that same time; today I might understand why film and series are deemed offensive by some. I would probably cringe at parts, as I do with Gone With the Wind, and enjoy those that are worthy to be. What I really object to is a company as plastic as Disney not giving me the chance. That why I buy none of their products or patronize their "Empire to the North".
My memories of it are warm like the episodes of Amos & Andy I saw at that same time
We were just discussing this today, and how much we miss Kingfish and 'do da name Ruby Begonia mean anythin' to ya?'.
Ah, good times.
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all I can say is you missed a great movie, primosprimos. it was as svengoolie said way ahead of it's time. a correction first, got the names wrong I did. Hank was the dark-haired babe's painter boyfriend and the cowboy who gets mumblypegged by Mike is Boyd. serves 'em right too. his greed set events in motion. first, he prevails on weak in the rafters mike to pry open the chest and has the audacity to sneak into fellow greedster aunt flavia's bedroom, mutilates her pocketbook with the same knife mike is gonna stick him with and takes the key which ironically won't be needed. some of these people are kinda unnecessarily temperamental if you ask me. aunt flavia behaves as if her greed is somehow her social prerogative and jessica supposedly the nice girl makes tree limbs fall. she starts off divining for water. aunt flavia must not have wanted to put out for a contractor. after Gideon is restored they think they can rush a guy they can't shoot. luckily Gordon got the talisman back from jessica. after Drew falls back into his coffin they knew he was finished and skeletonized. Svengoolie's skits were none too bad neither.
Wowza! You think the writers had a nip or two (or three) whilst making all that up?!
Hey, as long as tcm is of a mind to constantly favor us with a lot of their favorites many of us will just switch over to svengoolie and watch his turkeys instead.
Well said.
Now there's a sentence!
Thanks, TB.
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It's evolved into a weekly discussion of what Svengoolie is showing on ME-TV (and that's perfectly fine-- certainly less controversial).
Top Billed, last night's offering was hilarious! You've never seen a head get ahead like the head in The Thing That Couldn't Die got ahead.
Plus, nubile young women with perfect hair in filmy peignoir sets - what more could anyone want from a movie???
I've actually come to like Svengoolie - he did a Ronco commercial takeoff for a Stickette that was very funny. Apparently the women in the movie used divining rods to find I have no idea what, I turned the stupid thing off, but I guess they found the head with it. Did anyone have the stomach to watch until the end? Did the head find a body?
I'm glad at least Bela Lugosi hadn't reached the point where he played the head. Then again, he was probably dead.
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The OP posted a question and I responded. If you don't like my response, ignore it. If you "find it difficult", then don't respond. Forum should be for expressing your opinion or thoughts, not criticizing other posters for expressing theirs.
Well said, TheCid. Something to be remembered by everyone.
By the way, Vautrin noted:
I don't know the details of Bunuel's biography, but somewhere along the line he became anti-clerical and an atheist.
this isn't the perversion about Bunuel, is it? Sounds like Bunuel was spot-on.
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We do need to remember that like most stars, Harlow not being subtle enough had more to do with how her studio, MGM, cast her and in some cases built movies around her, in order to have a box office hit, than her level of talent. Her in-your-face sexuality and rough edges were what the public wanted so that is what MGM gave them (in most cases).
I absolutely believe that. Shame. The kid had potential.
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"Primosprimos" stated that Joan Blondell and Barbara Stanwyck were outstanding when very young. Well what do you mean by very young? Blondell was 24 when she made her first movie in 1930 and Stanwyck was 23 when she made "Ladies Of Leisure" which put her on the map. They were both older than Harlow who made a smash in Red Headed Woman and Red Dust at the age of 21.
Both Blondell and Stanwyck didn't make their marks as what some may be considered "outstanding" till they were 25-26 which was already the tail end of Jean's life and career.
In the American Film Institute's list of 25 greatest screen actresses of all time Barbara is #11 and Jean is #22. Barbara's career goes from 1929 to the 1980's which encompasses over 50 years. Jean had seven short years. Barbara was unique in the 1930's in that she was one of the first actresses to not have an exclusive contract with one studio. She could take whatever meaty roles were offered to her from any studio. Jean was under exclusive contract with MGM from the time she was 21 till she died. Jean wasn't a fighter and took whatever roles were given to her at MGM. Some of her roles were hand me downs from Joan Crawford who refused. Jean didn't refuse. She took the roles and did the best of her ability.
I'm not knocking Barbara. In fact I like her too as she could handle any role. But it's unfair to compare her to Jean. Personally I've never been a favorite of Joan Blondell. She was ok but her smart aleck, street wise, gum chewing antics got to be a little tired by the end of the 1930's. I know this wasn't her fault as Warner Brothers kept putting her in these roles which is probably why she left them in 1939.
She also had a long career strarting in 1930 and going right up until the time she died in 1979.
Blondell was 24 when she made her first movie in 1930 and Stanwyck was 23
Wow, they were older by two or three years!
They were just more talented, is all. As I said, I never found Harlow subtle enough to my taste.
No problem, to each his or her own.
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Well said.
Wow.
Thanks.
I still read it as Gable - as I felt sure that's who primos meant to reference.
Yes, thanks, big typo.
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In reply to no one in particular:
Anyone who doesn't love and appreciate Jean Harlow doesn't love and appreciate life itself. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Okay, she made a few clinkers when Pope Breen tried to put a ball and chain on the scripts, but the heart of her repertory---Red Headed Woman, Red Dust, Bombshell, Dinner at Eight, and Libeled Lady---has never been matched in its let-it-all-hang-out splendor by any actress before or since. She wasn't Stanwyck and she wasn't Davis, but she was so full of life in so many ways that any sentient being from a man to a caterpillar is instinctively drawn to her like a moth to a flame.
I realize that not all human beings or caterpillars are sentient, but be that as it may.
That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. God bless the day that Jean Harlow was born.
That's my opinion
Yup.
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i imagined you being a male.
and you referred to garbo has a 'he'?
she doesn't impress me at all, and imo, she can at times look rather masculine; but after several drinks i'd put the drop on her.
Sorry. Gable was the example in the OP - mea maxima culpa, I meant Gable, whom I deem a star and nothing more.
Me, a male? Nope.
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I'm a huge fan of Jean Harlow and have been since I was a child. I realize that the posters on this board are only expressing their opinion but I find some of the comments about Harlow very unfair.
One poster mentioned her having trouble with her dramatic scenes in her early movies. Well for pity sake she was only 20-21 at the time and still learning her trade. Remember that this poor girl died at 26.
Marilyn Monroe still hadn't made her mark at 26. Jean didn't even have much of a chance at drama because the public wanted her in comedy. If you want to see some dramatic Harlow watch her in Suzy or Wife Versus Secretary. She's wonderful. Even in these two movies she's the ripe old age of 25.
Another poster claims she's no Ann Harding or Evelyn Brent. Of course not! She's Harlow! She was unique; the original platinum blonde with a heart of gold. She wasn't attempting to imitate Ann or Evelyn.
How many people today know Ann Harding or Evelyn Brent? When you mention the name Harlow or Garbo you don't even have to mention their first names. They're icons.
As far as Jean paling in comparison to Una Merkel and May Robson I strongly disagree. Why would someone even compare Jean (in her early 20's) to May Robson (in her mid seventies)? In Dinner At Eight (when she was 22) she outshone Marie Dressler, the Barrymore brothers and Wallace Beery.
If anyone disagrees with this then go back to the original reviews of the movie from 1933. The public loved and adored her.
I know that many posters will tell me that it's her early death which made her an icon (which I also disagree with). But it also robbed her of the chance to expand her horizons and acting ability. At the time of her death she was already assigned to several movies to further enhance her comic and dramatic
abilities.
I know, midnight. I acknowledged she might have been great had she lived. But Joan Blondell and Barbara Stanwyck were outstanding when very young. I know Ann Harding and Evelyn Brent, thanks to TCM.
Yes, Harlow is well know, but why? Not because of her outstanding acting talent, but because she was unique (she was) and she had 'it' (not for me, but males, I imagine). That's fine, but at the same time, it would have been nice were Ann and Evelyn and Marian more well known. Yes, imo only.
As to Garbo, pfffffft, he was a star and an icon, but he was a one note actor, i.............m..............o. Well known doesn't mean talented, look at Tom Cruise.
Why? Because Una and May leapt off the screen - and how well known are they to anyone today? No, I don't think she outshone Marie Dressler in Dinner at Eight, Marie's scenes were Lionel were gut wrenching. Harlow was unique in the film, but it was Marie's comeback to Harlow, glorious Harlow with no bra, that was priceless.
No, I don't have to go back to anything since I disagree with this, I realize the public loved and adored her, but the public loved and adored Robin Williams too. The public's barometer of an actor means nothing to me.
Again, yes I wish she had lived, I wish more attention were paid to her health rather than to her bankability by the movie moguls and her own selfish mother. I sincerely believe she could have been a very good actor, she had moments when she wasn't being asked to be flat out shrill or sexual where she too leapt off the screen.
MOO, YMMV.
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I have been trying to catch the Pre-Codes when I can. However, most of the ones I want to watch are on while I'm at work, so I have to DVR and watch later. As much as I'd love to watch my DVR'd movies on the same day that I record them, it doesn't always happen. I have movies from May that I haven't watched yet. I'm trying though. Some of the films, while I want to watch them, I have to be in the mood to watch them or have enough time. I have The Best Days of Our Lives on my DVR from like June or whenever it was on last, and since it's three hours long (at least there are 3 hours worth of time recorded on the DVR for it), I have to have a large block of time set aside. Suffice it to say, I'm usually a little behind the times on this board, unless I just happened to catch the film in real time, had seen it before, or actually watched my recording recently.
Last week, I recorded Night Nurse and Baby Face which I haven't watched yet. I did watch Footlight Parade, and my opinion of Busby Berkeley's musicals remain the same-- I just can't stand his musical numbers. However, I did enjoy James Cagney in that film. However, the film wasn't good enough for me to ever want to own or watch again.
Today I recorded Double Harness, Red-Headed Woman and Red Dust. I'm trying to give Jean Harlow a chance. I did like her performance in Bombshell and Libeled Lady. I understand that Red-Headed Woman really put her on the map, so I'm looking forward to that one. I haven't watched any of these films yet.
I'm watching. I'm just a little behind.
Understood and sorry, folks. I refuse to get a DVR, couldn't set up my DVD recorder, and as needs must, watch my glorious wonderful pre-codes live.
I had never seen For the Defense or Union Depot before, and they were a treat.
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In these early Harlow movies like Bombshell and Red Headed Woman I feel she really have trouble with any dramatic scene. e.g. when she is crying over something. Acting school 101 (and without a passing grade!).
In comic scenes and in banter Harlow is good and pulls it off. But when compared to actresses like Ann Harding there is no comparison. I also find Joan Blondell to more sexy, funny as well as that 'something' than Harlow. But yea, Harlow was in some very good movies and a few great ones and that is all that counts.
Thanks, james. I agree to all. Did you see Union Depot? It was well done and new to me, so I really enjoyed it. Guy Kibbee, who usually annoys the bejeezus out of me, was totally enjoyable. Alan Hale, a sonorous railway announcer for the entire film, lots of trains, and a super young Joan and Fairbanks - what more could anyone want? And, I'm betting it was just another film to all of them.
roverrocks, my father used to refer to Pola Negri and Vilma Banky as having 'it'. I guess one has to be male to appreciate the 'it' in Harlow.
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Imagine films like For the Defense and Union Depot all day, every day, 365 days a year. If only.
If only there were a separate TCM Classic channel, one where black and white classically classic films could be enjoyed by those not in the most category who enjoy those films, and leave the rest of the drek/dreck to those who enjoy them
If only.
Union Depot, very riveting, very interesting, surprise ending. For the Defense, also interesting, a little slow in spots, also a surprise ending, given it was a pre-code. Movies the way movies used to be.
Poor pre-code Fridays, all alone and feeling blue. Watched by none of the most, only by me. La di da, and so it goes.
Sadly, I don't like Jean Harlow. Don't know why, but there's something about her. She may have gotten better as she aged, and she may have gotten better parts - although hoo chi mama, Red Headed Woman was hot stuff, nice ending too, no wimping out like they would have if it were made after the wan-ker Hays took over.
But she irks and I don't know why. She's no Ann Harding, Marion Marsh, Evelyn Brent, or Cathy O'Donnell. She paled next to Una Merkel and May Robson, and didn't even have the something that the very young Joan Blondell had.
Oh well, her flame will never go out, and that's all that counts.
24 Hour Tribute for Lauren Bacall on TCM
in General Discussions
Posted
Ah, James Gleason. If I wasn't committed to Warren William as my afterlife husband, I'd choose Jimmy.