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misswonderly3

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Posts posted by misswonderly3

  1. 2 hours ago, Hibi said:

    Ellen Corby was the whiny servant. Odd, that Card escapes and we never see her again. What happened to her? LOL. She doesn't come back with the cops.

    I figure she ran off and found the cops and told them what was going on,  but opted not to return with them...why would she want to go back there? But I always thought it was she who alerted the police about the situation.  Maybe she went home  ( she must have had a home apart from Lee J . Cobb's "cottage"  )  made herself a nice cup of tea,  and collapsed into an armchair.  Job well done.

    • Haha 1
  2. Third viewing for me of The Dark Past.  It's ok,  but will never be right up there in the pantheon of Great or even Pretty Good noirs.  And as some have observed,  it's more a "psychobabble" drama than a noir -- not that I get bogged down in labels.

    I always like William Holden, so that's a plus in this film.   I also like Nina Foch.  For some reason,  I sometimes get her mixed up with Patricia Neal, even though they don't really look alike.  Something about them both being good actresses and attractive women, both were in some fine movies,  but never made it to "A List" Hollywood actresses -- maybe by choice.

    I rarely enjoy filmed plays; you can always tell, they're so static.  Everything set in one room  ( or two, as in TDP.)  Maybe because I was already familiar with the story,  I paid attention to little details I hadn't noticed on my other viewings.

    For  one thing,  I get a kick out of the set details,  things like that ceramic dog that's used as a bookend.  And for some reason I think it's kind of funny that despite the tension of the situation,  it's sort of cozy,  what with the chess game and the fire.  A cozy fire while the escaped convicts hold everyone prisoner.   They should have had home made soup and French bread to complete the scene.  But then, the people who could provide the comfort food were locked in the basement.

    And  what's up with that?  How come the two servants were whisked away apart from everyone else?  Of course, to give them the opportunity to escape unnoticed...at least,  the stronger of the two did.  I don't think they needed to present the other servant as so hysterical and annoying. I think the "strong" servant was Kathryn Card.  The other servant,  the whiney one,  is not even credited on wiki, even though I have seen this actress many times, she was just doing what the script called her to do.  Anyway,  I just think it's funny that even the thugs were "classist" and separated the "help" from the rich people.   Upstairs Downstairs.

    I do sometimes tire of all those "psychology" dramas so beloved by producers in the '40s and '50s.  It all seems so dated now,  and as others have mentioned,  they make for very talky films.   I also doubt that Holden's character,  even if not shot down by the police  ( as in Blind Alley)  would have been allowed to live and undergo psychological counselling -- he shot that warden in the back,  in cold blood, and I don't think claiming he imagined it was his father would have been an acceptable defence to a judge or jury.  

    Too bad the kid was caught after he tried to escape...I was rooting for him.  But at least the cook had better luck.

    Oh,  one other "detail" I observed...One of the female guests  ( Adele Jergens?) , the one who was flirting with another guest in front of her husband...how come she's dressed to the nines like that?  Black evening gown, high heels, and jewellery,  this in a country  "cottage" supposedly for a relaxing weekend playing chess and hunting  (  while,  maybe not her ).  The outfit seems so incongrous to the situation.  Oh well,  she did have to look good for the guy she was flirting with,  even though the script makes him look weaker than her husband - that whole thing was like a little subplot,   just a little extra something to think about.

     

    • Like 3
  3. Third viewing for me of The Dark Past.  It's ok,  but will never be right up there in the pantheon of Great or even Pretty Good noirs.  And as some have observed,  it's more a "psychobabble" drama than a noir -- not that I get bogged down in labels.

    I always like William Holden, so that's a plus in this film.   I also like Nina Foch.  For some reason,  I sometimes get her mixed up with Patricia Neal, even though they don't really look alike.  Something about them both being good actresses and attractive women, both were in some fine movies,  but never made it to "A List" Hollywood actresses -- maybe by choice.

    I rarely enjoy filmed plays; you can always tell, they're so static.  Everything set in one room  ( or two, as in TDP.)  Maybe because I was already familiar with the story,  I paid attention to little details I hadn't noticed on my other viewings.

    For  one thing,  I get a kick out of the set details,  things like that ceramic dog that's used as a bookend.  And for some reason I think it's kind of funny that despite the tension of the situation,  it's sort of cozy,  what with the chess game and the fire.  A cozy fire while the escaped convicts hold everyone prisoner.   They should have had home made soup and French bread to complete the scene.  But then, the people who could provide the comfort food were locked in the basement.

    And  what's up with that?  How come the two servants were whisked away apart from everyone else?  Of course, to give them the opportunity to escape unnoticed...at least,  the stronger of the two did.  I don't think they needed to present the other servant as so hysterical and annoying. I think the "strong" servant was Kathryn Card.  The other servant,  the whiney one,  is not even credited on wiki, even though I have seen this actress many times, she was just doing what the script called her to do.  Anyway,  I just think it's funny that even the thugs were "classist" and separated the "help" from the rich people.   Upstairs Downstairs.

    I do sometimes tire of all those "psychology" dramas so beloved by producers in the '40s and '50s.  It all seems so dated now,  and as others have mentioned,  they make for very talky films.   I also doubt that Holden's character,  even if not shot down by the police  ( as in Blind Alley)  would have been allowed to live and undergo psychological counselling -- he shot that warden in the back,  in cold blood, and I don't think claiming he imagined it was his father would have been an acceptable defence to a judge or jury.  

    Too bad the kid was caught after he tried to escape...I was rooting for him.  But at least the cook had better luck.

    Oh,  one other "detail" I observed...One of the female guests  ( Adele Jergens?) , the one who was flirting with another guest in front of her husband...how come she's dressed to the nines like that?  Black evening gown, high heels, and jewellery,  this in a country  "cottage" supposedly for a relaxing weekend playing chess and hunting  (  while,  maybe not her ).  The outfit seems so incongrous to the situation.  Oh well,  she did have to look good for the guy she was flirting with,  even though the script makes him look weaker than her husband - that whole thing was like a little subplot,   just a little extra something to think about.

    • Like 2
    • Haha 1
  4. 19 hours ago, nakano said:

    Nobody mentionned this before I did sorry,no big deal,let's not make a federal case some people here are correcting for anything and sometimes are wrong. T his is what I wrote about,it was badly done. Obviously she had the same clothes because she did not know in advance that Glass Wall was broadcasted 2 weeks later.I do not  know why you  answered ,I was clear in my explanation,it was badly done and somebody at TCM did not do the advance work with Delany.

    Nakano,  we seem to have a pattern of misunderstanding each other here.   It is not my intention or desire to "correct" you,  nor was I making a "federal case" out of anything.

    You are right:  I did not read your post carefully enough,  or I may have seen that you were aware they recorded the two Noir Alley films in one session, but were just wondering why Dana Delany did not bring a change of clothes for the second "wraparound" with Eddie.  I do actually think someone else on this thread did mention that Miss Delany was wearing the same outfit in both shows.  But I'd have to scroll back a ways to find it, and don't have the time.

    I definitely did not think the response I wrote you was "correcting" you,  I just thought it might be one idea as to why the lady was wearing the same clothes.  I even said I was not sure ,  it was just a theory.

    Please don't take offense at my posts where none was intended.  I have nothing against you,  but you seem to think I do, or that I'm being rude to you or  something.  Not at all.

    • Thanks 1
  5. 3 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

    :D  You sound like my ex mother in law, who thought ALL rock'n'roll tunes were about SEX or DRUGS.  ;) 

    Sepiatone

    Well, no I don't think all rock music is about those two things.  But listen to the lyrics of "Helter Skelter".  It seems fairly obvious to me.

    • Haha 1
  6. 1 hour ago, nakano said:

     

    I'am surprised nobody mentionned this : Dana Delany had the same clothes 3 weeks before on the Gloria Grahame evening,including Noir Alley. At the screening  Eddie mentionned she would be back for The Glass Wall a few weeks later.I think this was improvised and she did not know it would be broadcasted a few weeks later,otherwise she would have brought extra clothes for the taping. Somebody did not to do the job correctly there and then . 

     

    Somebody else here mentioned that they noticed Dana Delany was wearing the same clothes for both Gloria Grahame Noir Alley screenings.

    Here's my guess,  although it could be entirely wrong:  Although Eddie said,  "Hey,  Dana will be here again in 2 weeks to introduce another Gloria Grahame film",  I would not take that literally.  I don't believe they filmed the first session  ( for Human Desire ), waited two weeks,  and then came back to discuss The Glass Wall.  That wouldn't be practical.   I think it's much more likely that Eddie and Dana arranged to co-host Noir Alley for two Gloria Grahame films, and did it all in one session.  That would explain why Dana Delany is wearing the same outfit-- she never went home, she did both Noir Alley "wraparounds"  all at one time.

    • Like 3
  7. 2 hours ago, Mr. Gorman said:

    I've never heard THE WHITE ALBUM by The Beatles. 

     

    What ?  Seriously?  You must be under a certain age-- I think just about everyone over the age of 50 has most definitely heard the White album,  even if only once.

  8. 43 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

    The watusi......the twist.......el  dorado.....

     

    🎵 Nothing on the white album can top Yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dog's eye. 🐶

    Right,  but I care more about  the music than the lyrics  ( this applies to just about all artists, not just the Beatles)  and there's some music on the White Album  that's as good as anything they ever did.    "That said",  yup,  that Walrus has some pretty arresting things to say.

    ...Back to the White Album:  One of my favourites,  in fact one of my favourite Beatles songs,  period,  is "Dear Prudence", which actually is kind of reminiscent of a nursery rhyme.

  9. 9 minutes ago, Hibi said:

    To show her who's boss. Power trip.

    Yes.  Although I love Hitchcock - at least his films -  I have heard that he did have this unfortunate tendency to dominate,  intimidate,  torture   (ok,  maybe not literally torture)  his female leads. He seemed to find it amusing.    I can especially see him doing it with someone as quiet and vulnerable as Kim Novak.  Not a nice side to the great director at all.

    • Like 2
  10. 30 minutes ago, Thompson said:

    MissW — PBS is running Ken Burns Baseball.  It’s the fourth inning that just aired.  Super.  All about Babe Ruth.  Early afternoon. I caught the third inning segment yesterday so it seems they will be airing inning number five tomorrow.  Just a heads up.  🕰 one o’clock  central time.

    Thanks for the heads up about that, Thompson.  I like Ken Burns documentaries.  Have you seen the one about the history of jazz?

    I think I might have seen a couple of episodes of the baseball series,  but never seen all nine innings.

  11. 3 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

    "Helter Skelter" according to Merriam-Webster, is defined as "undue haste, confusion, disorder."  And going over the lyrics of the tune, there's NOTHING AT ALL about wars of any kind.  Now, 

    I never knew the song was about a slide, but knew the term "helter-skelter"  referred to "disorder" and felt the music of the song was meant to illustrate that.  But as Manson never was playing with a full deck,  what HE heard could have been anything.   But....

    Huh.   I always thought "Helter Skelter" was about sex.  

  12. 4 hours ago, Shank Asu said:

    A bit off topic but i remember the first time my wife took me to Brighton and walking on the pier i saw a Helter Skelter.  So after decades of speculation and people like Charles Manson proclaiming the Beatles song was about race wars in the apocalypse, turns out it was just a silly song about a slide.  The White Album really is just a bunch of silly nursery rhymes isn't it.

    Maybe, but for silly nursery  rhymes,  they're pretty darn  good.   Come to think of it,  I love nursery rhymes.

  13. 25 minutes ago, Shank Asu said:

    i don't know- i'd expect someone who lives at an ocean town to be able to swim.  where i live in cornwall, every kid is surfing by the time they're 6.

    So,  I'm just curious....your user info states  "Location:  Portland  OR /  Cornwall,  England".   There are several  "Portlands" in the world...is it Portland,  Oregon,  in which case I assume you're an American currently living in Britain  ??   Or are you a Brit and actually do reside in Cornwall,  England ?  Sorry,  It's not my intention to be aggressively nosey about this,  but I 'm just wondering if you're English or American or both.

    Anyway,  I could be wrong about the swimming thing.  But Pinkie and his gang are actually from London,  where I don't imagine much recreational swimming went on,  either in the Thames or the sea.  

  14. 6 hours ago, ElCid said:

    Are these assumptions on known from the movie or the book?  People learn to swim well after childhood and swimming lessons often are not needed.

    Just saying this is a loose end that today would have been tied up with a search, even a brief one, or a body.  Falling from a pier is not like falling from a ship in the middle of the ocean.

    I believe that it is much more unusual to learn to swim in Britain,  at least back then,  than it is in the States and Canada.  North America has , besides all the ocean ports,  an abundance of rivers and lakes.  It is quite a normal thing,  even in some ways a safety precaution,  for parents to make sure their kids have swimming lessons, or at least learn to swim somehow,  even if it's just to dog paddle.

    However,  from my  ( admittedly limited) knowledge of English customs in the 20th century,  I think it would have been exceptional for someone of Pinkie's social status and class to have learned how to swim.  Also,  the fall from the pier was quite a long one, he may have been killed just from the fall.

    However,  it looks as though ,  in the book,  he encountered a horrible and painful death from the acid.   Thanks to UW for quoting that passage.

  15. 17 hours ago, Vautrin said:

     

    Maybe contrary to outward appearances Pinkie really had a heavy  load  of  guilt  on his  heart  and thus he sank like a rock. 

     

    17 hours ago, Thompson said:

    He sank like a rock.

    He sank like a Brighton Rock.

  16. 18 hours ago, laffite said:

    I am surprised that you are inkling-less with regard to my comments. Seriously. But fine. I fault you not, you are honest. An inkling can be likened to the intuitive, but I guess all that about a woman's intuition is bunk. (Yeah, I know, that really dates me. I think that expression is hopelessly forgotten. Really, if I didn't know as the fine person you are, I would think you were pulling my leg. I don't ask that anyone need agree with me, but I do say that the qualities I mentioned are not so obscure as that.

    I like English stuff "if only because You [ I } understand what they're saying."  !!!!  O, Wonderly, please afford me a little more credit than that." :lol:

    ...and I like Classical Music because well golly gee I listen to the 1812 overture. Just kidding, Upstairs, Downstairs is truly a classical and probably among the very first of the BBC big hits. And so much more followed. Of course if there are Cockney accents I will avoid them like the plague. :lol:;)

    ...and so on to next week, The Dark Past, ooo-boy, that's a good one, innit?

     

    I hope you're not saying I'm lacking in intuition, merely because I did not have an "inkling" of what you were saying re.  your criticisms about Brighton Rock.  I would venture to say I'm at least as intuitive as the next person.  I just did not find the film to have the qualities that repelled you so much.  But,  to repeat what I said earlier,  that's ok,  we all respond to movies differently,  our reactions to them are very individual and personal.  I'm not faulting you for the reaction you had to B.R.,  I'm just saying I had a different response.  I don't think that makes me unintuitive .  (--is there such a word ?  )

  17. 19 hours ago, Thompson said:

    Laffite, have you read that John Kennedy Toole novel A Confederacy of Dunces?  I live in this city, very close to where Ignatius hung his hat.  The Prytania theater is walkable. Good work of art that book, how many books make you laugh out loud while reading it alone in your room?

    Interesting.  I read Confederacy of Dunces, but I really had to force myself to finish it.  I know it's supposed to be hilarious,  but sorry,  it didn't make me laugh or even smile.  Maybe part of the problem was I couldn't stand the main character,  I just found him irritating and obnoxious.  I guess his dysfunctional personality is supposed to be funny,  but I just thought it was infuriating and sad.

    I did like the New Orleans setting, though.

    Novels  -- many of them not even noir novels !  ,   Shakespeare,  baseball,...all these off-topic discussions must be driving  Katie crazy !  sorry, Katie,  that's just the way this thread goes sometimes.

  18. 33 minutes ago, laffite said:

    So fair and foul a film I have not seen. Fair because it English, foul just this present case. I don't have any resistance to old English films that I can tell. My thoughts expressed are peculiar to this one film. Even if you don't agree with me I would be surprised if you did not see what I mean, at least an inkling. I don't believe those qualities i pointed out would be necessarily inimical to the main of a typical audience, it just seemed to encroach on my own sensibilities. All that bouncing around, exaggerated characters, frantic paced, clipped and hard-to-understand speech seem to bowl me with its relentless force. I had to put on pause to breathe.

    It's ironic because those stuffy old BBC period pieces and the like are my fave screen events ever. Including British films, BBC or otherwise. Maybe those boring old characters with the way the stiffly walk around and act in accordance to real life instead of cranked up cinematic exuberances are commensurate for my doddering old self. I think that it was the pretense to noir that BR seems to to amiss for me. Instead of all the mania I guess I prefer that boring and doddering English Reserve.

    And now if you'll excuse me, It's high time and jolly good well that I presently take a spot of tea and a crumpet or two. Let me know when The Pallisers come on again. I am ready for all 26 episodes.

    :lol:

    Sorry,  laffite,  but no,  I did not see what you meant,  not even an inkling. The only thing you mentioned that I did understand why you'd have a problem with it was the almost incomprehensible cockney accents    ( even though they were in Brighton,  I think the spivs had all moved down to Brighton to pursue lower-hanging criminal fruit...).   I don't think the film presented "relentless force" any more than a good many other noirs I've seen.

    But again,   sometimes a movie just strikes us the wrong way, and that's that.  

    It does sound as though you do like British films and tv shows that feature a different class of Brits,  if only because you can actually understand what they're saying.  And I can at least agree with you about them,  I love "Upstairs Downstairs"  ( the original ) and all those kind of shows.  (Have never gotten around to Downton Abbey,  but plan to one day....)

  19. 3 hours ago, laffite said:

    So far I have not been able to get through BR. The acting and general story-telling seems hyper and affected. Slapstick without the comedy. Phony and forced. Rambunctious. I don't know. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, please elaborate. I'm not sure either. The movie is too in my face. Over the top. I feel smothered. Whatever the problem, it's not by accident, it is very much intentional. It's what they wanted. I'm sure it works for many ...

    That sounds interesting. Maybe I'll skim the movie for quotes.

    This is not a test, dear MissW, but can you remember one (or two).

    (Remember Dixon Steele's friend, the old actor who was a little soused. He slung a few.)

     

    I believe it's Macbeth he quotes, it's when he first appears on the scene.  But he actually quotes lines from Shakespeare every time you see him  ( which isn't all that often,  I think the guy has 2 or 3 scenes altogether ?  )

    I'm sorry you had such a negative response to Brighton Rock.  I disagree with everything you said about it,  I did not feel it was "hyper and affected",  or "phony,  forced,  or rambunctious"  at all.  Still,  full points for giving reasons why you didn't like it,  rather than just saying,  "I didn't like it".  I think the other person here who felt that way about the film was ElCid. 

    I'm wondering if you and he just don't connect with English films,  or at least,  old English films.  There's definitely a different aesthetic and sensibility to them   from their American counterparts,  maybe that difference just doesn't connect with you and you find it artificial somehow -- I don't get the "feeling smothered"  thing,  but as we all know,  a person's response to any given film is very visceral and very personal,  and sometimes we just feel what we feel,  and that's it.   

    (  Kind of like my visceral hatred for David Fincher films.)

  20. Just a few more thoughts re.  Brighton Rock:   I can't recall how old Pinkie is in the book,  I know he's young...but 17?  Really?  17 is really young.  It's odd to see this extremely young thug intimidating and bossing all these older men around.  I know it's partly Pinkie's toughness and strong will, and certainly I can see a much younger person being top dog in a gang of older guys.  But 17 is so young,  he'd have had so little experience.  But maybe that is the way Graham Greene wrote it,  I don't remember.

    The Hermione Baddeley character:  How come Pinkie didn't decide to off her?  He had no hesitation killing others who were less of a threat than Ida was, yet he just allows her to carry on in her investigation.  I  mean,  I'm glad he doesn't,  I like the lady,  but I do wonder why he never even seems to consider that option.

    I also really like the old disbarred  (?)  lawyer who keeps quoting Shakespeare.

     

    • Like 1
  21. 40 minutes ago, Thompson said:

    How can anybody understand James Joyce?  I think he’s a cool dude and all, Portrait was readable, but Ulysses?  Finnegan’s Wake?  Heck, you might as well try to read Sterling Hayden’s Voyage., Nobody can possibly know what those novels are about, the language is just too far out.  

    In the interests of genuine honesty  ( as opposed to,  uh,  false honesty),  I must confess I have only read Portrait of the Artist and Dubliners.  I cannot pretend that I have read Finnegan's Wake - but come on, who has?  There are probably 10 people in the entire world at this moment who actually have.    I don't even intend to ever read it.  However,  I do hope someday to read Ulysses, but only for the naughty bits,  which I've heard are very salacious.  I'll probably skip everything else.

    • Haha 2
  22. 2 hours ago, Mr. Gorman said:

    C.S. LEWIS was a British convert -- but I don't remember if he was a Catholic or Protestant offhand.  

     

    He never became a Catholic,  much to the disappointment of his friend J.R.R. Tolkien.  I think he was Anglican, but he regarded himself more as a Christian than as a member of any particular denomination of that faith.  He wrote a very personal book about his "conversion",  titled "Surprised by Joy".  I love his Narnia books with a deep and fervent affection,  must have read all of them at least three times.   Nothing even remotely noirish about them, though.

    • Like 1
  23. 3 hours ago, Thompson said:

    Same here.  The “subtitle c/c” was off too.  Have to watch/listen again.  I liked the girl, not sure why really, but I was happy the needle skipped, I couldn’t have watched her reaction if it hadn’t.

    In the book,  as Eddie mentioned,  that is not the ending.  The girl returns to her flat anticipating listening to what she fondly believes will be a sweet declaration of love from Pinkie,  only to experience the "worst horror yet".  Her hearing Pinkie's true feelings for her on the record occurs   "off -screen" or, actually ,  "off-book",   but we know she will hear his message of hatred and contempt.

    But in a way,  I think it would have been a good thing ,  or at least,  in the long run,  a helpful thing,  for Rose to have heard that recording.  She would have become a lot wiser, and perhaps moved on with her life in a way that, still self-deceived about Pinkie,  she will never be in the film version of the ending.

    Of course,  in the film, Pinkie tries to break the record.  He doesn't succeed  ( what the h were those old records made of?)  but he manages to scratch it so that Rose does not hear the rest of his  "message" to her.

    • Like 3
  24. 7 hours ago, LsDoorMat said:

    I had a terrible time understanding what was being said in the film. I don't know if the sound recording was bad or what it was. I am going to watch my Blu of the film with the closed caption turned on, because it was hard to decipher the plot without knowing what was being said. 

    It's those Cockney accents !  I watch a lot of British films,  and even I have trouble understanding what they're saying half the time,  especially those thick East London dialects.   ( well, not London,  Brighton I guess, but close.)

    There's a hilarious SNL sketch from a few years ago, featuring the brilliant Bill Hader.  It really nails that  incomprehensible working class accent:

     

     

    • Like 4
    • Haha 1
  25. 23 hours ago, Vautrin said:

    I think I'll leave off wearing the Catholic  questions of sin and guilt and redemption Graham Greene glasses tonight. I've  seen

    Brighton Rock a few times, though not lately and if I recall it correctly the movie is less focused on those religious themes than

    the book.  A very effective  flick. Greeney knew something about guilt and sin himself, though he specialized in adultery and not

    murder.   

    Yes,  the novel is almost as replete with Catholic guilt and meditations on God and sin and good and evil and hell, etc. as Joyce's work.  Sex, too, as I recall.

    Most of this is left out of the movie.  It's sort of too bad,  because all the Catholic philosophizing and angsting is part of what makes the book interesting.  But the film is still very good,  and a relatively faithful rendition of the novel -- which, given Greene's participation,  is to be expected.

     

    • Like 2
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