misswonderly3

*Crossfire* is an unusual noir in some ways - all those soldiers on leave; in other ways it fits the definition of classic noir very well. I enjoy Gloria Grahame 's role in it as the world weary paid dancer. And it's got to hold the record for the most Roberts in any movie, including my two favourite Roberts, Mitchum and Ryan. I have heard that the anti-semitic element was a substitute for the original target of hatred, homosexuals. Where did I hear that? Can't remember, so I'm afraid I can't supply the details. If the film was based on a play or short story, it's possible the gay factor was present there, but that they changed it for 1947 audiences.

I'm not too familiar with Chester Morris. Was he the husband who was practically stalked by Jean Harlow in *Red Headed Woman*? If so, I thought he was completely bland, forgettable. Maybe it was the passivity of his character.

Rio was finances' contribution today. Mine is Chris Clark lamenting that Love's Gone Bad : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOdVvdpyDt0

Well, I checked it out and it's certainly very "beachy". So here ya go, finance, Duran Duran's Rio : (You do know that the group named themselves after some character in that Jane Fonda vehicle, *Barbarella* ? )

Oh, that explains it. Thanks, lynn, I guess I didn't read the article thoroughly enough. Yes, Vanity Fair is a very cinema-focussed magazine. Buick I'm not so sure about- yeah, why not, I bet there have been loads of Buicks in movies.

Hugely entertaining. Fun to watch, and fun to see them having so much fun. All this and superlative funk music too. Wish I could vote for Funkadelic, or George, or Parliament, or whatever they're called (maybe the other names are the splinter parties.) Edited by: misswonderly on Apr 13, 2011 1:59 PM

Twentieth Century Vole Presents: *TYPO !* The proprietor of a run-down motel becomes obsessed with spelling and typing mistakes after his mother, a former executive secretary, dies. His deranged mind forms the idea that the stringent correction of every typing error of any and every office clerk who ever makes one will somehow render his mother immortal. When a young woman on the run, clearly a secretary of some kind, hides out at his motel, he cannot resist the temptation to inspect her office documents and punish her accordingly for any TYPOs he discovers. "I...I just can't stand it ! Nobody except Mother knows how to type! It...it's horrible ! Must...destroy...bad...office clerks..." Edited by: misswonderly on Apr 13, 2011 11:36 AM Edited by: misswonderly on Apr 13, 2011 11:38 AM

"Upscale, luxury customers" ? ! Where does that come from? I would think that of all the variables a classic movies television station considers, income (I assume that's what they mean) would be one of the least important. I bet there are just as many "downscale" TCM watchers as "upscale". My guess is that age and possibly one's level of education have more to do with the demographics of the TCM audience than "luxury".

Yes, it's finally spring...that's what made me think of the song.

It's most appropriate that you 're talking about "Parliament", because it's currently election season in Canada right now (and we have a "parliamentary" democracy. Good seque, eh? ) Yeah, I didn't even watch that noirish sounding Ray Milland pic last night, because it was Debate Night in Canada. Whenever there's an election anywhere, I think of Radiohead and their song Electioneering. Here's a live version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUpVzmGxpWY&feature=related

JackFavell, I remember once your saying you liked XTC. One of their most unusual songs ( and these guys specialized in unusual) is Green Man, from their "Apple Venus" album. This is an amazing song, with very sophisticated arrangements and an almost eerie rhythmic sound. The lyrics are as strange and mysterious as the music- very pagan and strange.

Since this thread has kind of evolved into a discussion about French cinema in general, I dont' believe anyone has yet (as far as I know) mentioned *L'Atalante*. This 1934 film, directed by Jean Vigo, is pleasantly simple, almost like one of those "slice of life" films that became poplular later. It's a sweet love story and a wonderful evocation of French river life in the 1930s. It's both funny and dramatic. I'm really surprised that nobody else has included this fine little film in the discussion.

> {quote:title=lzcutter wrote:}{quote} > We give fellow posters the right to disagree with us with their choices on any number of subjects but now, it seems, we not only expect but demand that anyone who sits down with Robert O to not only never raise a discerning thought about any film but to always like everything they talk about. > Part of the joy of *The Essentials* for the last three seasons is that Robert O and Alec B don't parrot one another. They actually have a discussion about the film/actors/music/director/cameraman/etc. > We actually learn information about the making of the films chosen more often than not and definitely more than we have learned from some of the previous co-hosts. > For three seasons, Robert O has welcomed Alec B as his co-host. No other co-host of the series has been asked this often. They obviously like each other and like the rapport they have on camera. > Robert O looks beyond the baggage that is part of Alec B's past. He enjoys talking film with Alec B. > It's unfortunate that others cannot do the same. Exactly.

> {quote:title=clore wrote:}{quote} > What he said was that he was 50/50 over whether she was an actress or a movie star. It's actually a valid comment as she really didn't have that many opportunities to shine as a dramatic actress - certainly there weren't many vehicles for her on the level of the Kazan film. Then and now, her starring vehicles THIS PROPERTY IS CONDEMNED, MARJORIE MORNINGSTAR or INSIDE DAISY CLOVER were not received well and a good many of her films, such as CASH McCALL, SEX AND THE SINGLE GIRL, ALL THE FINE YOUNG CANNIBALS, BOMBERS B-52 are barely worth watching once. > > Baldwin went on to say that he wasn't sure if he had thought she was a child star who never matured and thus relied on being cute or if she had blossomed. I got the impression that he was unfamiliar with the film - although he did not come out and say it - but that he did know something of her career and let's be honest, she didn't always have a Kazan or Nick Ray in her corner. Warners put her in a lot of crap that didn't tax her abilities but did rely upon her name to bring them in. > I hope clore doesn't mind, but I copied his comment here because I don't know if everyone on this thread has read it. I myself did not see the Alec Baldwin intro in question. However, it looks as though clore did. If those who are angry about what Baldwin supposedly said, according to the thread title, read clore's post, they will see the comment in the context in which it was made. So, reading over what Baldwin apparently said, what's wrong with it? I kind of like Natalie Wood, and I don't see anything to be upset about. To paraphrase and put my own interpretation on it, sounds like Baldwin said something like she's "half actress, half movie star". What' s so earth-shakingly offensive about that? First, I don't see that as such a shameful thing, second, the same could be said of many popular actors and actresses, both classic and current. As for Alec Baldwin being some kind of "cool factor" host, hired to bring in younger viewers, that's a laugh. Baldwin is clearly middle-aged, "over the hill", as my parents used to say. I really doubt under -30 potential TCM watchers are going to flock to the channel because of him. Or for Mank, for that matter, who I'm guessing will never see 40 again. I don't care, I like both those TCM personalities. As for "truth" versus "opinion", clearly you cannot use the two terms together like that. You can say, "truth versus lies", or you can say "opinion versus fact". But whatever Alec Baldwin says about Natalie Wood is neither a truth nor a lie, but simply his opinion about her. Which is one reason he's a host on the "Essentials": to express his opinion. Edited by: misswonderly on Apr 12, 2011 7:18 PM

Yeah, I like that he used the word "nonpareil" - good word, you don't hear that too often. I like "retromikey"s style of writing, but I disagree with his views about Alec Bakdwin. However, I'd rather disagree with someone who writes well then agree with someone who doesn't.

> {quote:title=finance wrote:}{quote} > Still looking for a store that carries Robert Osborne masks. Hey, I'd buy one ! Townes Van Zandt with Pancho and Lefty :

I've never seen the James Whale version - would it be a pre-code then , with that production date? (1931). I wonder if that means they could be more clear about what the dancer character is doing to make a living? *Waterloo Bridge* - the Leigh/Taylor version, which I have seen - is frustrating for me to watch. Why were people so weird about stuff like that back then? I've seen so many old movies where the woman, almost always for understandable reasons, becomes a prostitute, or was one in the past, before she met the man she loves. She decides she is " not worthy" of the man (regardless of how many other intimate encounters the man may have had ! But of course we're never told anything about that, because it doesn't matter ) and either rejects him, pretending she no longer loves him, or offs herself. I know that's how people, both male and female, seemed to think back then, but it's such a waste, of love and of life, that I find it hard to accept.

Sometimes, I suspect, people here read what someone else has said one of the TCM hosts have said, and they go off the deep end in indignation, even though they themselves did not see the host making the statement in question. Often it's all about context. It's like people getting mad about some book or film they think ought to be censored or banned, without even having read the book or seen the film. This is how rumours get started - someone takes as literally truth what someone else has said, gets mad, and next thing you know - trouble ! Who cares if Alec Baldwin doesn't particularly like Natalie Wood anyway; but aside from that, it sounds from what at least one poster has said here that he framed his remarks about her within a certain context, he wasn't just "trashing" her. Even if he had been, strong opinions make the intros and outros more interesting than constant bland approval. Just sayin' - people should check information out for themselves before getting all bent out of shape based on what somebody claimed somebody else said. This applies whether we're talking about schoolyard gossip, politics, or Turner Classic Movies. Edited by: misswonderly on Apr 11, 2011 7:30 PM

I haven't seen *Julie* , nor, to be honest, had I even heard of it before you listed it here. I looked it up; sounds intriguing, although it's hard to imagine Doris Day in anything even remotely noir. Oxymoronic. However, one thing I've learned with movies is, never pre-assume anything until you've seen the film. I saw *Out of the Fog* quite recently, and couldn't believe how much I disliked it. As you say, it looks very noirish, and it includes a number of noir motifs. I really like both John Garfield and Ida Lupino. And, come to think of it, Thomas Mitchell. But the film did not engage my interest or attention very much. It's so obviously based on a play, for one thing, despite its several waterfront scenes. It feels play-ish, the dialogue is stagey. I also felt "ripped off" that we don't even get to see the first date between Lupino and Garfield, it happens off-screen. This is a mistake, since it's hard to understand what Ida sees in the Garfield character. Presumeably she thinks he represents excitement, action, danger (certainly that), everything that's the opposite of routine and boring. But we don't get to see this, and partly what I like about movies is witnessing the development of relationships between characters. In any case, the Garfield character is completely dislikeable in every way; at first I kept expecting to see a soft side to him, a recognition that he is being an utterly horrible person. But this never happens and we never get much of an insight into his character. Sorry, I guess I've babbled on a bit about *Out of the Fog* . But I'd looked forward to seeing it so much, such a great evocative title, such a good cast - I think I'd have been easier on it if I hadn't had my expectations dashed so much. Anyway, MovieMadness, I do agree that the film does fit your "semi-noir" category, by virtue of its mood and look.

> {quote:title=C.Bogle wrote:}{quote} > ... Uncle Bob had a short column in today's issue of Parade magazine about his > Top Five Civil War movies. I'd list them, but they're the usual suspects. They are the usual suspects, but here's a link to it anyway: http://www.parade.com/news/civil-war/featured/top-5-civil-war-films.html?index=1 By the way, I hope no one thinks I was trying to say that the cause of the Civil War was not primarily about a profound disagreement over slavery. That is key to the whole conflict - but I was always told that it wasn't just a North "slavery is bad" versus South "no it isn't, and anyway we need it" dispute. It was also about economics, which of course in the south was deeply connected to slavery, as many here have pointed out. Edited by: misswonderly on Apr 11, 2011 1:17 PM

> {quote:title=finance wrote:}{quote} > Glad to see that June Allyson, my personal un-favorite, seems to be dominating this thread. Along with Kate Hepburn, of course. Just for good measure, I'll throw in Spencer Tracey, who, like his lady friend Miss Hepburn, often comes across as insufferably smug and self-righteous. He always seems to have a knowing smirk playing around his mouth. And he looked old even when he was young.

Fatboy Slim with Praise You . Shorter radio version followed by the " official video" version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e85TxTwSxc&feature=related Edited by: misswonderly on Apr 11, 2011 9:41 AM

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That's why we're regarded as nerds.

Thanks, Stephan, for that very thoughtful post. You're right, it is an almost intimidatingly huge subject, maybe too big for a little forum about classic movies. I too have seen and appreciated the Ken Burns Civil War series - in fact I purchased the DVD of it. My limited understanding of the causes of the War is that it was not just the issue of slavery -although that was the most volatile one - but about economics in the States in general, and about the rights of individual states to join or secede from the Union. Many people are unaware that more American soldiers died in this conflict than all the American soldiers in both World Wars put together.