misswonderly3

Sepiatone, I have tremendous respect for TikiSoo, she's one of my favourite posters here. However, I'm not sure why you address your comment about "The Electric Company " to her. It was I who posted that clip from the show.

Did anyone watch "The Electric Company" when they were a kid? I thought it was a great show. Here's a bit from it I still remember: (Poor plumber ! I hope he made a full recovery.)

Whenever I start a thread, I like to think "Is this idea post-worthy? Why might this be an interesting thread idea?" (That sounds sort of self-aggrandizing, and I know there have been lots of times when I was wrong, that whatever "post-worthiness" I thought the idea had was only in my own mind...) So, just to 'splain, the reason why I started this thread was because I think the whole idea of birds, especially intelligent birds who serve (or combat) human beings, is kind of an interesting one; also, there are obviously writers and film directors who agree, since as we can see from the response here, birds do appear in a lot of movies. What kind of role they play in the movie varies greatly, of course. I like the fact that some types of birds are very smart. Apparently the two species at the top of the bird brain scale are "psittaciformes" - that's "parrot" to you - and "corvidae" - which includes crows, ravens, magpies, etc. According to wiki, bird genus "corvidae" is highly intelligent: "They are considered the most intelligent of the birds, and among the most intelligent of all animals,[4] having demonstrated self-awareness in mirror tests (European magpies) and tool-making ability (crows, rooks[5])—skills until recently regarded as solely the province of humans and a few other higher mammals. Their total brain-to-body mass ratio is equal to that of great apes and cetaceans, and only slightly lower than in humans.[6]" And think of how often such birds appear in literature and mythology: The king of the Norse gods, Odin, has a raven as his signature daemon (for lack of a better word.) Actually, he has two. And the creatures -ravens and crows, especially- are always hanging about, foretelling doom of some kind or other, in folk songs. The humans who wrote these songs and stories think these birds know something, they're bearers of some kind of secret. In the fascinating and addictive (imo) television series, Game of Thrones, ravens are used to carry messages. (Of course, pigeons have also been used for this purpose, and I've never heard anyone claim that they belong to the equivalent of avian Mensa.) Anyway, I didn't mean to get all pedantic and lecture-ish about these creatures, I just thought some of the above was kind of interesting. Cinematic, even.

Good point, Tom, I'd thought of Warner Brothers cartoons, too. As did Janet0312 (see below): Janet0312 wrote: "My favorite parrot in film is Warner's 1948 animated "Dough Ray Me-Ow". Louie the Parrot finds a written will stating that his master bequeaths the family fortune not to him, but to his fellow household pet, a lunk-headed cat named Heathcliff, with the proviso that Louie is next in line to inherit the wealth if Heathcliff dies. So, Louie plots the untimely demise of Heathcliff. " My only problem with Warner Brothers' cartoon * bird characters - in fact, just about all Warner Bros. cartoon characters- is that I think of them all as human, even the ones who are animals or birds. Come on, Bugs is just a smart cool guy in disguise. Same with Daffy (although he's not as cool as Bugs, he gets riled way too easily for that.) And what about Tweety Bird? Tweety is also a human disguised as a canary. Is there even one time when Tweety doesn't outsmart poor old Sylvester? ( who, again, is just a person in puddytat form.) * Actually, this isn't a "problem". I love the Bugs Bunny / Warner Bros. cartoons exactly the way they are.

Tippi is pretty darn tough in that re-written scenario, Lorna. But then, she IS one tough chick (sorry.) Had you heard about the Stanley Kubrick remake? (This may or may not be a little-known rumour only.)

And then there's The Ladykillers ( the proper version, Ealing Studios, 1955). The nice old lady whose home the duplicitous crooks are renting has a pet parrot, who escapes his cage and won't go back into it. She elicits the help of the crooks, with mixed results. You get the feeling the parrot knows all about these guys and is purposely making fools of them (hey, parrots are smart.) Anyway, along comes Alec Guinness, who saves the day. This clip reminded me of how good that movie is. If you like that sort of thing, which I do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEr-xM5d6oc

Lorna baby, did you know that Stanley Kubrick's final unfinished project was to be a remake of "The Birds" ? (This is a little-known fact.)

Thanks for the reminder, speedy, of that great last line in The Maltese Falcon ! (courtesy of Shakespeare.) Yeah, everyone was after that "jewel-encrusted bird", and they never did get their hands on it. Everyone says Up is a really sweet movie; I keep meaning to see it, maybe now I'll get around to it, if only for the "Kevin" character. From what I can remember about Mr. Hobbs Takes a Vacation, Jimmy Stewart's character thought his neighbouring beach house resident was boring, not least because his idea of an exciting time was to go bird-watching ( and play bridge? can't remember). As for The Birds, yeah, why didn't the teacher and kids stay in the school, instead of making a desperate run for it? Of course, those birds were pretty determined; maybe in the end it wouldn't have made much difference.

This thread idea was inspired by one of our fellow posters here, who commented that she was thinking of getting a bird for a pet. The idea of a pet bird got me thinking about birds in movies, particularly parrots (but there are many others....) Because parrots can "talk" and are extremely intelligent, they make for fun co-stars in the movies. They can also be mean (hey, just like people !) For some reason, the first movie I thought of with a parrot in it was The Third Man. Remember the scene where Holly Martins is trying to escape or hide or something (sorry, it's been a while since I've seen the film) and he accidentally stumbles into a parrot cage, whereupon the creature squawks and n!ps him ? It always makes me laugh, because for a while it seems as though everyone is out to get poor old Holly, even the parrot ! I dunno, maybe this thread will fly (couldn't resist) and maybe it won't. Any other bird stories from the movies? (Hey, I left the most obvious one for someone else to discuss...) (not allowed to use the word "n i p" here, hence the exclamation point instead of the "i".)

That is kind of cool. Dunno what kind of bird you guys are thinking of, but I know if I had the money ( and if I did NOT have two cats), I'd go for some kind of parrot. I have a friend who owned not one, but two parrots (or "parakeets", not sure it there's a difference.) She said they were really smart and fun to have- real unique personalities. Plus, think of all the pirate jokes you could make. Aargh.

I know ! You beat me to it, I was thinking of The Wicked Witch of the West, too. And after all, no one, not even the fiercest noir character, ever glories and wallows in their badness the way she does. I've always loved the line, "Who'd have thought a little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness ? " Ya gotta love someone who coins a term like "beautiful wickedness" !

Lawrence, I think this is what could be called an embarrassment of riches.

I'd never heard of him either, until I started watching TCM. Now I'm a fan. The guy is so pleasant, so good-looking ! And always in equally pleasant movies - well, almost always - The Hard Way is an exception. It's not "pleasant", although it is a really good movie... oh, wait, Kitty Foyle isn't always "pleasant" either. Ok, scratch the "pleasant" movie part. But he IS always nice eye candy ! Look at that boyish smile !

Well, as I said before, Rip, your comments are notable for their intelligence and for how well-thought-out and carefully explained they always are. What would we do without outstandingly clever and literate posters here like yourself?

Thanks, speedy baby, for your comments on the noirs I'd mentioned in my earlier post. Your insights and ideas about noirs ( and movies in general) are always well-written, well-considered, and a pleasure to read. Oh yeah, Gene Tierney's character in Leave Her to Heaven is sooo evil; you never forget this film. You could argue that she was mentally ill, to do the things she does, but then, I maintain that anyone who commits the kinds of acts she does (yes, especially the one on the lake) is mentally ill. That doesn't make them not be "evil",which Ellen Harland certainly is. I agree that whether one is a Joan Crawford fan or not, her performance in Mildred Pierce is one of her best. There's never a dull moment in this "Joan-o-drama" (sorry, Joan made so many films that were part noir, part melodrama, and part "woman's picture", that I coined that term for them.) And boy, that horrible Veda is one snotty ungrateful selfish girl we love to hate ! The Strange Love of Martha Ivers holds a special place in my heart, because it was one of the first film noirs I ever saw that wasn't famous, one that even a non-fan would have heard of (you know, like Double Indemnity, for instance.) I stumbled upon it years ago, when I was staying with my parents. Everyone - my parents, my kids (who were little then), had gone to bed (my husband was back home, working, it was a school break). It was about 1 in the morning, and I was checking out the offerings for late night tv. My parents had a satellite dish that picked up a lot of American stations. blahblay .... Anyway, I lucked into this old movie station (American Classics ? This was the early 90s) that was just starting some old movie called The Strange Love of Martha Ivers. I'd never seen it before, never even heard of it. I loved every minute of it, from the atmospheric rain-filled opening scenes with the kids and the horrible aunt, to the adult characters of Martha and her wimpy husband (who knew Kirk Douglas could be wimpy ! ) to the sexy ( well, I always thought so) Van Heflin. I just found it to be a fascinating story. I agree, I've never been much of a Lizabeth Scott fan either. In fact, Martha Ivers is just about the only movie where her presence doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the film a bit. Detour is a rough ride, literally. A lot of people say this is noir at its best. I don't agree, although it's certainly noir at its most unpleasant. I'm glad I saw it, and in fact I own a copy, but it's not a noir I enjoy. Too damn nasty, even for noir. I do like the song, though ("I Can't Believe that You're in Love with Me".)

slayton, you are an illustrious gentlemen (at least I've always regarded you as such), but I have two quibbles with you about this thread. First is, I think it would have been a good idea to have included the movie's name, "Decoy", in your thread title; that way it could be as much a discussion of the film as it is of wicked female noir characters (not that there's anything wrong with the latter, I love those kinds of tangents, it's just that a person scanning the G.D. page for topics wouldn't know this one is about Decoy.) Second: (sorry this deserves block caps); I CAN'T AGREE WITH YOU !!! Why do you disparage this truly unusual and obscure noir by calling it "forgettable" (NO ! I only saw it once, and I've always remembered it !!) Worse, you say it has a "wildly ridiculous premise " ! No ! (sorry about all the exclamation points, I get all pointy, punctuation-wise, when I'm riled. ! ) The premise of the film is truly original, and so strange and bizarre, how can you not be fascinated by it? Ok, SPOILER CITY coming up. Don't read this unless you've seen this movie. You don't think the idea of bringing a just-executed person back to life is a fascinating one? Why is it so "highly ridiculous" ? It's just within the realm of plausibility, if you don't worry about medical details (how the hell would I know or even care how this could be done? Bet ya didn't complain when James Whale does it in Frankenstein...) I applaud whoever thought this one up: sneak a crook who's just been executed in the gas chamber out of the prison, hurry his body to a doctor who has the ability to revive said executed crook (if done within a few hours of the man's death), and have the doctor do it - bring a dead man back to life. How macabre and intriguing is that? The scene where this is done is, to me, one of the oddest, eeriest, and strangest in all film noir. And what's almost funny about it is, no one, with the possible exception of the doctor himself, is awed or frightened or even impressed by this deed. All they care about is finding out, from the dead man when he comes back to life, where he hid the money he stole. Not the slightest interest in one of the great mysteries of human life - what, if anything, happens after death? Nobody has one iota of curiousity about this, they just want to know where he stashed the dough. And - get this ! - after they find out, they kill him all over again ! ! My opinion of this entire scene and the idea behind it, is the complete opposite of slayton's. I think it's ingenious. Outside the genres of science fiction and horror, there are very few films about actually bringing a dead person back to life. The rest of Decoy is, I must admit, a bit of an anti-climax after the revival scene; but only because that scene is so unique. The film still holds my interest though, all the way through. And yes, you have to see what Jean Gillie's character does to believe it. I've seen a lot of noirs, and a lot of horrible vile characters in them, and I have to hand it to Margot Shelby: she is, hands down, the most wicked character in noir I've ever seen.

But NickandNora baby, have you seen Decoy? Martha Ivers is a beloved Sunday school teacher by comparison.

What a brilliant and astute observation to add to the discussion.

He also played a small but key role in Woody Allen's Crimes and Misdemeanors, a great film, and Orbach's performance in it is a stand-out.

By the way, everybody - that is, everybody here who's a noir fan, and I assume you wouldn't be reading this thread if you weren't - Did anyone mention Big Noir Day this past week? Take a look at the schedule for Wednesday October 19. Noir after noir, all day ("ALL NOIR ! ALL DAY !"), at least til 6 pm. If anyone gave a "heads up" about this dark cinematic feast, I missed it. Maybe there's another thread that talks about it. Anyway, I'm surprised no one mentioned it. Hoo boy, look at the goodies that were up for our dark delectation that day: Leave Her to Heaven Mildred Pierce Decoy (a rare one, this) Lady in the Lake The Strange Love of Martha Ivers Detour Woman on the Beach Born to Kill !!!!!!!! (number of exclamation points equals number of noirs aired) So, it may be that someone did post about this fabulous programming day somewhere, and I missed it. (I must admit, sometimes I scan the pages on the forum pretty quickly...) Did people take advantage of this? Anyone watch a noir film they hadn't already seen? I'm guessing a lot of you weren't familiar with Decoy anyway. I know someone (slayton?) started a thread about the actress in this, Jean Gillie (think the thread's called "So Wicked", something like that.) But it's more about the actress than the film itself. I'd actually seen all eight films before. They're all a treat, one way or another. Probably the least successful is Lady in the Lake; nice idea, Robert Montgomery, but somehow it doesn't work. (Talking about the "subjective camera" thing.) Still, I enjoy the film, if only because sometimes the "first person" special camera angle provides unintended laughs. I love Audrey Totter, and she's a scream in this. (I think she does it on purpose; she mugs a lot, mostly looking outraged whenever Robert M. shows up. It's hilarious.) As for Decoy, I don't agree with those who dismiss it. This film has a bizarre, highly unusual premise.I don't think this premise is "ridiculous", as some have said (like slayton), I think it's daring and fascinating. So, anybody catch any of these 8 noirs on Wednesday? Thoughts? Eddie baby, what do you have to say about them? (hey, thought I'd give it a try...)

Much wickeder than that. I'm guessing you haven't seen Decoy, or you wouldn't have asked. Jean Gillie's character has to be the most wicked woman in all noir, possibly all filmdom.

Where'd you hear that? He just released an album earlier this year. True, it was all covers (his second take on American Song Book classics), but still, hardly something he'd do if he'd sworn off making music anymore.

I don't usually bother responding to you, Nipkow, but with this one I really have to ask, what does that even mean?

GayD. and Lawrence: thanks for the tunes by (respectively) the latest Nobel Prize winner for literature and the Talking Heads. I am a huge fan of both, particularly the former. However, I'm still in an R.E.M. mode. Here's one of the best songs these guys ever wrote, "King of Birds". The lyrics are fascinating, as is the tune.

Vautrin: Ah, "Automatic for the People". Love every track. And Find the River is one of the best; there's something so moving about this song. Nice video.