kingrat

Just had another thought about SECRET BEYOND THE DOOR: you've heard of THE TWO MRS. CARROLLS? This could be THE TWO MRS. DANVERS. When we first meet her, Miss Robey seemingly has more of the personality of Mrs. Danvers, but Caroline functions as the housekeeper and seems at first to be a quasi-benevolent version of Mrs. Danvers. The climax of the film is certainly borrowed from the actions of Mrs. Danvers in REBECCA. Frank, thanks for the kind words. It's always fun to contribute to one of these lively rambles. This film seems bold for its time, with Celia's being aroused by the knife fight and with Mark's loving account of the "felicitous rooms." You know, I'll never think of the word "felicitous" the same way again.

I posted some of this on another site, but here's where the great discussion is going on! Couldn't take my eyes off this film, with great cinematography by Stanley Cortez. Secret Beyond the Door is like the shadow side of Scarlet Street and Woman in the Window, which are male fantasies--very compelling ones to this man--about the femme fatale for whom a respectable man gives up everything. In Freudian terms, relevant for these films, superego gives way to id, and the results are not pretty (well, Joan Bennett is actually very pretty). Secret is a female fantasy, and Lang makes this one just as compelling as the male fantasies. Superego gives way to id in old Mexico, and Joan Bennett as Celia believes she's found the man who can give her fulfillment she's never dreamed of. Good old Bob back home certainly couldn't, for sure. Michael Redgrave as Mark pursues her forcefully, but with sophistication. When Celia sees Mark back in his home, however, he isn't forceful and manly at all. He has complicated relationships with two live women and two dead women, and even seems to be dominated by some of them. You could see this switch as being unrealistic or as being the most realistic aspect of the entire film. The marvelous stranger turns out to have a past, and the women in his life have warped him in ways his new wife can only guess at. She thinks she's found a strong man, but instead she finds her own strength and believes she can help him solve all of his problems--and Mark has some very big problems. Isn't this a kind of ultimate female fantasy, to be able to fix all of her man's shortcomings? Michael Redgrave lacks the romantic dash of Olivier, Ronald Colman, or James Mason, and that does weaken the film, but his self-accusing scenes are quite good, and he knows how to convey guilt, anguish, coldness, and secret delight in his "felicitous rooms." I love the range of women characters in the film, from Joan Bennett's determined heroine to Natalie Schafer's campy comedy to the two Mexican women who play surprisingly important roles in Celia's development. Anne Revere is excellent as usual, and Barbara O'Neil, another fine actress, looks so much thinner since she's not wearing period costumes. I agree that David, Miss Robey, the fire, and Eleanor's death deserve more treatment.

MFF, anyone can enter the programming challenge, and we all hope you will. About a year ago I entered for the first time as a relatively new poster to the boards. Everyone was very encouraging. The last challenge had a newcomer who did a great job. It's true that the TCM programmers read our schedules, and the more you make your schedule like a real TCM schedule, the likelier you are to see some of your ideas be used. Share your ideas and enthusiasm!

Peter Fonda: EZ RIDER next: Warren William

Celeste Holm: ADO ANNY next: Dorothy Dandridge

Norma Shearer: MGM 1 LDY next: Joel McCrea

Skimpole, thank you for starting this thread. I'd love for TCM to do a Chabrol tribute, since I've only seen a few of this films. A few years ago they showed the one I'd always wanted to see: LES BONNES FEMMES. We follow a group of young women who work in a shop in Paris. Bernadette Lafont is terrific as the one who sleeps around, and then there's the nicest of the group, and the attractive young man she meets, and what happens next. Not to everyone's taste, perhaps, but very much to mine. I've also seen THE UNFAITHFUL WIFE (LA FEMME INFIDELE), a Hitchcock-influenced piece, which most people would like. His first film, LE BEAU SERGE (1958), is more naturalistic, more like a British film of the early 60s. No doubt it had an influence on them. Gerard Blain, Jean-Claude Brialy, and Bernadette Lafont are all quite good. His second film, LES COUSINS, also starring Blain and Brialy, was a big hit. Blain is the serious student from the country, and Brialy is the dissolute sophisticated cousin. Wouldn't mind seeing this one again. L'ENFER (HELL) is one of the few later Chabrol films I've seen. It was well-reviewed, but I had mixed feelings. The truly ironic thing about MADAME BOVARY is that the French New Wave directors as young men hated the idea of adapting literary classics like MADAME BOVARY. That Chabrol eventually did just that is wonderfully ironic. Perhaps ChiO or Dewey or Arkadin or Moira or clore or MovieProfessor would weigh in with some thoughts and recommendations on Chabrol.

LoveFilmNoir, let us know what you think of ACT OF VIOLENCE when you get a chance to watch it. Like MissW, I love everything about it. Thanks for posting some of the color noirs. That would make an interesting theme night for TCM.

Sylvia Sidney: DED END STAR Next: Claire Trevor

Yep, I'm afraid I find both Godfather I & II overrated. There are scenes I really like, especially in the first one, such as the murder of Sterling Hayden. But on the other hand, like most Coppola films GF I & II are sluggishly paced and with an unattractive brown/green color palette that dominated the first half of 1970s films. Believe me, if you don't like Marlon Brando's performance, and I don't, this seriously detracts from the first film, since the film grinds to a halt every time Brando pretends to act. Diane Keaton is wimpy and boring, and perhaps Talia Shire's character is intended to be annoying. I like the second film even less. It's just S-L-O-W, and unlike the first, feels self-important. The Cuban episode seems rather smug. Keaton does develop a backbone (long overdue), and the fate of Fredo is a fine moment. To put it another way, I'd gladly give each film three stars out of four, but both are touted as great films, and as far as I'm concerned, these two aren't even close. Hence, they're overrated. Didn't mean to hijack the thread, but you had to ask! Now back to 1970, with Frank Sinatra singing "It Was a Very Mediocre Year."

MARK11, I couldn't agree more about Kurosawa and STRAY DOGS. What he does with the soundtrack is incredible, too, with all the various kinds of Western music, and the final confrontation staged to the sounds of the beautiful piano sonata.

Skimpole, when we get to the subject of overrated films of the 1970s, I'll mention many, though by no means all, of the films you cite, and we'll have fun discussing them. I find many more films to like in the 40s, 50s, and 60s than in the 70s, 80s, 90s, or Zeroes. Did I mention that Francis Ford Coppola may be the most overrated--talented, but overrated--director of any decade? Nah, I'll save that for another thread.

I'm with rdmtimp all the way on this one. Almost EVERY movie of this decade has some claim to being overrated, though not The Hours, which has better plot twists than any thriller released in the decade, not Sideways, not Brokeback Mountain, not Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World. Rdmtimp, I could cry cheers of joy that someone else finds Batman Begins overrated. This would make my list of the 10 most overrated films of all time. As for underrated, Christopher Nolan's The Prestige--see, I don't hate Nolan, just Batman Begins. Also underrated: Breach, with Chris Cooper giving one of the best performances of the decade. Overrated: Michael Clayton. Unfortunately, I know a good bit about civil litigation and about how big law firms work. Unfortunately, writer-director Tony Gilroy knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about either subject and obviously did zero research to make his story plausible. Judging from Gilroy's later film Duplicity, he thinks that the first half hour of a film should be slow, tricky, and confusing. Should we add the latest Tarantino film? I only saw bits of it, but the exaggerated acting style is obviously what he wanted, though it puts me off completely.

Steveyz, I'm also a big fan of Mystic River, which is even better than the book. In fact, I like the less showy performances of Laura Linney, Kevin Bacon, and Laurence Fishburne even better than the three Oscar winners, who certainly have their moments as well. Perhaps because I hadn't read Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil before seeing the movie, I liked the film very much, and prefer Kevin Spacey's work here to his Oscar-winning performance in American Beauty. To me, Eastwood carries forward some of the virtues of golden age filmmaking. He didn't come out of film school eager to show off all he'd learned. His training was much more practical. He usually prefers good storytelling to directorial fireworks and has a clear sense of how to connect with his audience. Though he's not one of my favorite directors, I've enjoyed film entertainments of his as different as Space Cowboys and (yes, I'll admit liking it) The Bridges of Madison County, and I certainly respect his accomplishments.

Cujas, I liked Red but found the first part very slow going. Had doubts about whether a woman as young and lovely as Irene Jacob would have gone for someone as old as Trintignant, though I do like him. And a knockout like Julie Delpy in White going for the unattractive loser hairdresser? In his dreams, maybe. On the other hand, I did like the actor in Blue who's always had the crush on Binoche. That's the romantic relationship in the trilogy that really works for me. Blue pulls me in with the bizarre, wonderful, and absolutely confident staging of the car crash in the opening scene. I also completely agree with your fondness for Emmanuelle Beart. Un Coeur en Hiver is a big favorite. Beart, Daniel Auteuil, Claude Sautet, and Ravel make a potent combination.

Depardieu certainly has the right to slam any actor he wants to, even if he's dead wrong, as I think he is about Juliette Binoche. She was brilliant in Three Colors: Blue. I couldn't take my eyes off her in The Unbearable Lightness of Being. She was excellent in The English Patient, and to me thoroughly deserved her Oscar. She can communicate emotion on screen, and the camera loves her, far more than it does Depardieu, a fine actor in the Paul Muni/Laurence Olivier tradition.

These lists seem to bear out johnm's observation that 1970 wasn't a very good year for films. I do have some affection for Five Easy Pieces, Diary of a Mad Housewife, Little Big Man, and Patton, and The Walking Stick is an underrated film worth checking out (based on a novel by the author of Marnie, but the film to me is more interesting than Marnie).

SueSue, you also have to love Joan Crawford's helmet hair in THE CARETAKERS. In her first scene I thought she was wearing a hat or snood or head covering of some kind. This is truly a bizarre hairdo.

Jessica Tandy: WED HUME? Next: Elke Sommer

Steiger was definitely not a Southerner, but he tried out a Southern accent in various roles. There's a long speech in RUN OF THE ARROW where he flip-flops between a bad Irish accent and a bad Southern accent. I think he's using his real accent in ON THE WATERFRONT, and that's how I like him best.

Gee, Miss Wonderly, you wouldn't be thinking of Jean Arthur, would you? She does have a distinctive voice. Here's a thought: any of us would immediately recognize the voice of John Wayne, James Stewart, Clark Gable, or Henry Fonda, but probably not the wannabe actors who were supposed to be the next Clark Gable. The big stars of the 30s and 40s almost always had memorable voices. That isn't so true of the Method actors, who tended to see vocal technique as something phony. Marlon Brando and Rod Steiger, for instance, have relatively weak and unappealing voices. Brando has a memorable vocal style, but not a memorable voice.

This is such a good topic. I believe Joan Crawford would have made it as a star today because she was so driven she would done anything to be a star. Nude scenes? No problem. Buffing up to be a butt-kicking comic book heroine? Sure thing. She would have figured out what her fans wanted her to be, and she would have done it. Van Johnson and June Allyson would work steadily, mostly in TV, but wouldn't be big movie stars. Where would talents like Fred Astaire, Judy Garland and Kathryn Grayson fit into today's market? Clark Gable would play the Tom Cruise action/adventure roles, and Carole Lombard would play the Cameron Diaz/Reese Witherspoon roles. The suave gentlemen like Ronald Colman and David Niven would have career problems. Herbert Marshall would play weaklings and villains, the Alan Rickman career path. Jennifer Jones might actually fit in some Julia Roberts parts, not including Erin Brockovich--a role Ginger Rogers would go after. Ginger would probably do sitcoms.

Diana Scarwid: LUV MOMMIE Next: Edward Everett Horton

Bronxie, I'm with you 100% about Melvyn Douglas in NINOTCHKA where his sex appeal seems, like, non-existent. Seriously damages the film. A friend of mine used to say that "Butterfly Morning" had the fewest lyrics of any song he'd ever heard. Yep, I remember it. Not necessarily fondly. Have to admit I'm not a big fan of Jason Robards, Jr., mainly because I first saw him as Brutus in the Stuart Burge film of JULIUS CAESAR. He seems to be hungover and reading his lines off cue cards. This image was hard to shake. Later I discovered that he was very good in LONG DAY'S JOURNEY INTO NIGHT. He's not bad in THE BALLAD OF CABLE HOGUE, but not my idea of a romantic lead.

When Leave Her to Heaven was shown at the TCM film festival, not everyone had seen the film, and there were gasps from the audience during the lake scene. Another problem with the courtroom scene is that Jeanne Crain acts (or rather, doesn't act) as if she's attending a garden party rather than being on trial for her life. This is the only weak part of the film, for all the reasons already mentioned. Actually, I'm glad Sirk didn't get his hands on it. The film would probably have been bloodless and campier, but that doesn't seem more desirable than what Stahl accomplished. Sirk did remake three of Stahl's films, by the way, including Imitation of Life. Stahl's Magnificient Obsession is well-acted, but very static in direction--"stodgy," as one poster called it--and he definitely had learned a lot by the time he made Leave Her to Heaven. I agree with the sentiment that Leave Her to Heaven is so good you expect it to be by a more famous director. Leon Shamroy's cinematography also has much to do with the excellence of the film.