wouldbestar

I'll second that, Iz. Thank you so much for the heads up. I've heard how good this movies is. Lunch with Jeff Bridges on Saturday-can't beat that!

Besides being the anniversary of Michael Jackson?s death and the start of the Korean War-excuse me, Police Action-it?s the 134th of the battle at the Little Big Horn also known to the Native Americans as Greasy Grass. There is a marvelous article by Tim Giago of the Native Sun News-he is an Oglala Lakota-on today?s observances. To the Sioux, Cheyenne, and Arapahoe tribes, this is a national holiday to be celebrated as we do Memorial Day or the 4th of July with picnics, cookouts and the like. It?s the one day they defended their land and won. I wasn?t able to download this article. It was distributed by McCarthy-Tribune Information Services. I hope somebody else can as it is worth reading. It was in the Tampa Tribune. TCM-thank you for highlighting the start of this "forgotten war" that Killed 50.000 of our men. I know James Garner is a veteran of it and I'm certain there are more of you out there in the business as well as the rest of the country. I'm sure the South Koreans thank you, too.

I had no idea he was so handsome in his youth, I only saw him in later years when he had aged considerably. Also I'd never seen Henry Hull as a young man, these were both eye openers.

I discovered this thread yesterday and after the first page went back to the beginning and spent an hour or so going down Memory Lane. I especially enjoyed those first 10 pages or so. I recognized nearly everyone in those pictures; many I was seeing for the first time in their youth. It was sad to see so many of them have died but nice to see somebody besides me remembers them. Also, since my birthday is in mid-October I was delighted to see how many people whose work I admire share my month. What is so strange is that I?ve seen many of them on the classic TV and movie stations stations in the past week or so, one just today. I?ll be checking this thread out from now on. Thank you, everybody who contributes. Your diligence is very much appreciated.

Poor Michael Pate. As an actor and writer he was so much better than that.

I love this movie but have one question. Despite what Steve Leach thought, Jim McKay was never lost; he did on land what he did at sea following the direction of the stars in the sky. Seamen have been doing this since they've been around and I thought land explorers did the same. Cowboys didn't do this on the range or on cattle drives? How about Indian scouts? If the answers are no, this is quite a revelation for me.

Back in the 60?s a magazine did an article on extras and bit players. I had seen Man of a Thousand Faces which told of how Lon Chaney went from extra to star and wanted to see if anything was different. Yes, now we had sound. One photo showed a woman in pioneer dress and sunbonnet running from one TV Western to another on the same lot. She was divorced with three children and I supposed trying to keep afloat and make time for them. I remember hoping that she made enough to be there when they needed her instead of being stuck in an office 40 hours for $100.00 per week. Another showed a woman in a nun?s habit who sold real estate between bit parts posing in front of a nice car. The habit was from a role she was playing on a TV show. I think the pioneer?s name was Carna Day and the nun?s was Mary Benoit. I remember because I saved the article for a long time hoping I might one day join the ranks or better. I kept thinking ?Wow, they might never be stars but they get to do what they love doing.? It never occurred to me it was what I would loved doing; for them it was just a way of making a living. I hope not, as the houses might be gone but that film is still out there somewhere.

" Oh, rats!" and "tinker's damn" usually let my friends know when I'm ticked off about something. I know rats came from the Peanuts movies and TV shows but if I got tinker from a movie I don't know what it was. I pride myself on not having to resort to using two other certain words to get my point accross and sounding like the script of Full Metal Jacket. I'm not trying to seem superior; I just wasn't raised that way.

PK and hamradio: In one of Simon and Garfunkle's earliest albums there is a song that mixes "Silent Night" with the evening news that's full of bad stories. Included is an account of the Speck murders. This always hit me the hardest as it compared what we are supposed to be as human beings-and God's creations-and the monsters we seemed to be devolving into. Think of all the lives these nurses could have saved or help save. That's Speck's legacy, too.

Arlene, to pharaphrase Lina Lamont: "Of course she looks better with red hair, don't everybody?" Others droll; we rule! Other folks, see our thread further down.

Thank you for reminding me, Iz. TCM ran it last year or earlier this one. I thought it was a well-made movie but sometimes these films that parallel real-life incidents like this make me qeasy. I always wonder what the people left behind think of seeing what they lived through used this way. Law and Order often did this to me.

You did what at Warners? I did not know you were ever in the entertainment business. That explains your wealth of knowledge. I know their bios say Izcutter and CeneMaven make them I'm curious to see some of their work or know if I already have. That goes for anyone else I enjoy posting with. Are you all allowed to toot your own horns or is that considered using the posts for personal gains?

It was the University of Texas in Austin in 1966 and the man's name was Charles Whitman. They made a TV movie about it.

fred: You might also like The Tempered Blade by Monte Barrett that was the source for the Scott Forbes series from the 50's about Bowie. While I'm guessing the Sybil character is fictional most of the Mexican part of his life seems to follow history. It's also a good read. I just realized I was a bit unclear talking about Colorado Territory. That was the b&w movie I wished was in color as mountains, both green and Southwest earth tones are beautiful to me. I am a misplaced Florida beach bunny who is really a mountain goat. I've spent time in North Carolina, Tennessee, and Arkansas where they're part of the landscape and I loved all of it. Edited by: wouldbestar on Jun 19, 2010 12:20 PM

Thank you for including the photo. When I saw Titanic, I was struck by the beauty of her face and smile that transcended the wrinkles. Watching her do that cereal commercial a few years ago at her age was a hoot and inspiration. I'm glad she is being recognized while she's still with us as Charles Lane was awhile back. Will any of this be televised? I can't place Mr. Napier but might when I see him.

fred and Iz: Now I know why I love you two so much: You have excellent taste in Western movies. I know this because we like the same ones and my taste, of course, is impeccable. Just kidding. I am a Bogey fan but would rather see the Joel/Virginia version of the High Sierra than his. The first time I saw it, when I was 16, I liked it because of Virginia's character. She was the real "lady" as her feelings were honest and real rather than rather than phony like Dorothy Malone's Rose. I guess there was no other ending possible as they were outlaws but they died having known love. I wrote about Monte Walsh the other day in a thread in General Discussions. I wish I had been able to see Will Penny and will definitely get to it the next time I can. If you two like it, that's enough for me. My only gripe is that the scenery would have been breathtaking in color but that's the only one. fred, Encore has been running The Iron Mistress this month. Your lady is in glorious color and at her nastiest. They've been running another one she did with Alan Ladd about the founding of Abilene, also in color. The most G-rated thing I can say is "Enjoy your fantasy".

Izcutter: Thank you for the additions. I knew some of you would have more. MissGoddess: I certainly did not mean to malign the women who put their family responsibilities first. After all, they were our mothers. I knew girls who married right out of high school or college, while others worked for a few years before they wed. Others never did or the marriages did not work out. When we were approaching adulthood it was a case of most of us wondering what we would do until marriage; not the idea that we would be working afterwards or stay single. Yet these things happened and seeing women doing everything from waiting tables to being ?de facto? bosses made us see what we might be able to do. It was like seeing Black or other racial/ethnic/religious groups in stories or even commercials for the first time; the powers that be finally seemed to realize that there was more to America than being WASP. It was high time.

I don't know how old any of you are but I was about thirteen when all this happened. It was only a year after the Starkweather/Fugate crime spree (a teen-age boy and girl killed 12 people in 3 western states-including her parents and baby sister) and it scared us kids witless. What was happening to our country? Could this happen to us? Could some of our friends-or us-go crazy like this? Didn't this just happen in old Western movies? As both cases played out and the murderers were executed (3 out of 4, they spared the girl) we seemed to lose a sense of safety. The rest of the 60's took care of what was left. Ten years after this came Tate-LaBianca. I read the book and watched this movie before. I couldn't again as it seem so real that other time I kept looking away. I hate to admit it but perhaps Robert Blake's playing one of the killers had something to do with it. I've always liked his work and he and I want to believe his jury was right as I'm certain others do. Mixing reel and real life isn't right or fair but I know it's out there. This takes away from the remaining Clutter family members and friends who lost them is such a horrible manner and miss them. The story is really about what happened to them for no reason, the man-hours and work taken to bring the killers in, and that they paid for it. Maybe I need to see this again in spite of my misgivings.

Even though it seems I can't tell AM from PM, I was awake this morning and got to see The True Story of Lynn Stuart. Pat Brown was right; it was almost too amazing to believe. Had he not introduced and narrated the film, I might not have. What a courageous woman! That line about evil winning when good people do nothing sure applied here. I hope the criminal element never found the real woman. Did she ever get to see herself played on screen? Betsy Palmer did her proud. I knew Jerry and Kathleen's father had been Governor of California until Reagan beat him in 1966 but did not know he was also the Attorney General nor had I ever seen him until this. Who knew I'd get to mix history and entertainment for the cost of a couple hours' sleep? And Jack Lord and John Anderson as drug kingpins? Lord was pretty good in this; he could do more than say "Book 'em, Danno!". I recommend this movie if you like crime stories; that it's true makes it even more interesting. It would be a good double feature with The Phoenix City Story, another real lifer from that time And that other 4:15 movie-the PM one with Katharine Hepburn-was good, too. I got lucky both times.

What. then is the mane of the 1953 version with Rhonda Fleming as Cleopatra and Raymond Burr as Marc Antony? There is no Caesar in this one as he is already but unhistorically dead. Instead, we get William Lundigan as one of Caesar's officers who loved her but got thrown over for the boss. Guess who brings her down? The movie's not that hot.

This is where TCM shines, introducing younger viewers to performers they might only know through lesser, newer movies. She was in good films such as The Long, Grey Line,and a panelist on TV's original I've Got a Secret. Lynn Stuart is a new one for me and I'm waiting for it too.

Most pre-70's TV shows had women characters as housewives rather than career women but we did have a few role models. I made a list of working women I remember from that time. Sure, most of them dreamed of finding "Mr. Right" but in the meantime they kept the wheels moving. Feel free to add more that you can think of. Ella Raines as Janet Dean, R. N. Elena Verdugo as Mille the waitress in Meet Millie. Later she was Consuelo, the Marcus Welby nurse. Mary Castle as Frankie Adams, railroad detective of Stories of the Century. Outlaws didn't scare her. Beverly Garland as Casey, the undercover cop of Decoy, going Frankie one better. Gale Storm as Susannah Pomeroy, the cruse director of Oh, Susannah! doing her thing 20 years before the Love Boat. Ann Sothern as Susie McNamara , the talent agency Private Secretary who later played hotel manager Katie. Don Porter played her boss in this one too and this time they let her land him. Amanda Blake as Kitty Russell, the saloon owner in Gunsmoke. It wasn't the most respectable job in the world but she did it with sass and style taking no guff from any man. The class showed through. Diane Brewster as Miss Canfield, Sue England as Miss Landers, and Doris Packer as the Principal, Beaver's teachers from Leave it to Beaver. I guess we can add Aneta Coursalt as Helen Crump from The Andy Griffith Show. These all run from the late 40's to mid-60's. This was when what is referred to as "Women's Lib" began to stir. I didn't then and haven't as of yet bought into all of it but women were less than first-class citizens back then and wanted as much, if not more, than we saw these ladies accomplishing. Looking forward to seeing who else is added to the list.

I was going to the Westerns forum with this until I saw this thread. Perhaps more folks will see it this way. I missed Will Penny but saw Monte Walsh and Ride the High Country. How anyone can doubt Lee Marvin's talents after this heartbreaking performance escapes me. He is appealing as a leading man and the gentle side his early villain days would not often let him show is totally believable. I don't know about Will Penny but Monte and his friends did not live a glamorous life but just the opposite. It was nomadic, paid little, and when you got too old to work the options were limited. His friend got lucky for a short time but still died violently. Monte almost had a chance but when his woman died he just went on as before. Life was tough for her too. She had no fancy saloon like the Long Branch to work from but just a shack. I have an idea that most women in that line of work had it the same way. Jeanne Moreau proved the Europeans have the right idea: Women are more beautiful and interesting with maturity. I saw the Selleck/Rossolini version when it came out and loved it but this blows that one away. If Selleck deserved an Emmy for his-and he did-Marvin was robbed of another Oscar. Show this one again. As for Ride the High Country, McCrea and Scott could not have chosen a better film to end their careers on. How great that they got to pass the baton to Mariette Hartley and give James Drury, Warren Oates, R. G. Armstrong, and others the chance to be in a class act movie. What happened to the man playing the young lead as I don't recall seeing him in anything else? Decision at Sundown was another little gem with an unusual story and no nice neat ending. Like Ethan Edwards in The Searchers, Bart Allison, still bitter, just rides away this time with his friend's death on his conscience. Only the townspeople have any kind of satisfaction but they must live with not having done anything to correct things for too long. This is the "Adult Western" at its best.

To scsu1975, misswonderly, cujas and finance: I am sorry for the mix up as I did not know of jazzman Louis Jordan although I like much of the genre. And most of my knowledge of Chicago comes from WGN and following the Cubs because I want to see them finally win the whole ball of wax. I also remember Mr. Prima from the 1950?s-with and without Keely Smith-but not that fondly. As misswonderly stated, I try to give my opinions in ways that make them known but not in a vindictive way. I think this got me in the soup with another poster I truly respect for a time and that hurt. I ?ve been reading about some past real wars on other threads and that might have caused my dander to get up. Will try to give everybody the benefit of the doubt from now on.

Thank you for this little tidbit of Hollywood baloney. As I understand it she was always poor and her education was meager which always bothered her. I think she also used the name Billie Cassin, a stepfather's surname, when she was a chorus girl. She must have tried to make this upper crust persona come true by marrying Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. who was Hollywood roalty, and real society blueblood Franchot Tone. I never really liked her before Mildred Pierce and Humoresque when she looked her most real self. Then she went grotesque with her hair and make up and lost it for me. I must be in the minority as her career was long and mostly successful. The most creative scripts didn't seem to be on screen but in the hands of the publicity departments.