Kinokima

I don't know I saw just as much response in UK papers over this issue as in the US. I mean they wrote editorials about it in the Telegraph and Guardian and there were tons of comments for each. I agree that the UK is not as celebrity crazy as we are in the US but I think that is more about the current crop. Of course if it wasn't Emma Thompson saying it I don't think there would have been really any coverage in the UK but since Emma Thompson is British and well it seems to me people did care over there as well.

*The Mortal Storm* and a scene with book burning. How appropriate for this thread!

What a good idea I can add that to throwing darts at a picture of her face and burning all her films. Kidding, Kidding (in case anyone takes this seriously). I still enjoy Emma Thompson as an actress/writer. I just don't like her opinion about Audrey Hepburn.

I love Wizard of Oz. We never owned the film (and I still don't actually. I should do something about that) but my grandparents did and whenever I went over to their house to visit I would watch the movie. Not necessarily my favorite film but still a very special film to me. For the longest time I mistakenly thought it was the first picture in color. I know better now though. Oh and I watched Oz with the Dark Side of the Moon soundtrack. It is definitely very cool, although I prefer watching it the regular way. edit: Also another fact that I just read about Wizard of Oz is apparently King Vidor shot the Over the Rainbow Scene. This comes from the book Conversations With the Great Moviemakers of Hollywood's Golden Age. Edited by: Kinokima on Aug 16, 2010 5:04 PM

I should like to add that what people decide to do on their own is their own business. People can "ban" any film they want from their own home. This is of course not the same as telling other people they cannot watch it. For example Mein Kampf (okay that's a book not a film) is not something I would ever keep in my own home. But I am not about to tell other people they cannot read it. I also understand the historical significance of this book even though some of the things in the book might personally offend me.

Some of my favorites from 1960: The Apartment, Breathless, L'Avventura, The Bad Sleep Well, Le Trou, Two Women, The Virgin Spring. Certainly a great year for foreign film. Of course there are still a lot I need to see like Peeping Tom, Shoot the Piano Player, and especially La Dolce Vita (all are on my Netflix Queue). And as you will see Psycho is notably missing. That I have seen but it just isn't one of my favorites.

> {quote:title=C.Bogle wrote:}{quote} > Sometimes things get a little contentious. Bill Holden, is he better with a shaved or > hairy chest? Now that is just too controversial to even start to discuss. Thanks for the much needed humor. And thanks *Hamradio* for posting my original post.

> {quote:title=ClassicViewer wrote:}{quote} > It sounds like Cary made the right decision, and he gave the right reason for saying no. We still have him and Audrey in another film. It's just unfortunate that Julie did not get to do Eliza. Cary actually wanted Audrey for Father Goose but My Fair Lady conflicted so he went with Leslie Caron instead. If Audrey had not done My Fair Lady then we still might have gotten them together in two films.

You are right this is a contentious thread but it is also a contentious topic that many people feel very strongly about. Well you know I strongly disagree with you but I have to give you some respect because you are basically defending your stance by yourself.

> {quote:title=johnm_001 wrote:}{quote} > > My apologies to you. I was thinking of the original post about this, on the other thread, and mistaking it for this thread. My point was to say that I cannot believe the person (I don't even recall who it was, as I've not even read through this thread), was serious about burning films. I know that wasn't you. Apology accepted! I might have overreacted a bit so I am sorry too.

Misswonderly it is not your fault at all. You were right that the other topic was not the place to have this discussion so your suggestion was a good one. I think I will just think twice about being the one to start controversial threads like this because people seem to not read carefully and miss the point. I just didn't appreciate being made fun of that is all. Maybe I should join you in those safer threads!

> {quote:title=johnm_001 wrote:}{quote} > This is the most intentionally/unintentionally ridiculous thread, ever. Well, at least in quite some time! I refuse to believe the OP is serious. Am I serious about what? That I am against banning, & censoring films that are deemed politically incorrect? For your information I created this thread because someone mentioned this very thing in the Audrey Hepburn/Emma Thompson thread. The thread was getting off topic so someone asked that we create a new thread because other people wanted to discuss this topic. And it seems this ridiculous topic has gone on for quite a few pages. If it is so ridiculous to you don't reply. And please keep your snark to yourself. Next time if I am going to be attacked for creating a thread I will let the other thread go off topic.

This entire thread is opinions. Whether we agree or disagree with Emma. Whether we think she was rude or not. Whether we like the original My Fair Lady film or not. Emma is entitled to her opinion but *so are we*. I also see very few people attacking Emma Thompson. Maybe early in the thread but it is just on a message board that barely anyone is going to see anyways.

> {quote:title=jamesjazzguitar wrote:}{quote} > It was very clear to me that when you used the term 'market' it implied 'market enough' as in 'enough of a demand to jusify a release' and that there being an 'interest' in a movie doesn't create a 'market'. > Thank you that is exactly what I meant. And *Classicviewer* yes maybe there are legal issues over these titles it doesn't really refute the point I was making that just because a film is not distributed in the US does not mean it is banned.

> {quote:title=FredCDobbs wrote:}{quote} > > > There probably isnt, but trust me, there IS a market in the US for all Ingrid Bergman films. I am sure there would be people interested but how many? I am not saying the US distributors are right not to release it. Maybe they are sitting on a gold mine (although I somewhat doubt that) but it is not a ban. Every company has the right to release and not release what they want. That is not the same as someone saying "no you can't read or watch this" or we are going to destroy all traces of this. And most of those films you listed seem to be out of print. So no one felt there was market enough to keep them in print.

> {quote:title=FredCDobbs wrote:}{quote} > > {quote:title=Kinokima wrote:}{quote} > > And what I was saying about the Ingrid Bergman movie is true. It is not banned from the US. > > According to Leni?s interview on the Today show in the mid-1980s, her films were banned in the US, i.e. ?blacklisted? by the industry, not by the government. She worked and lobbied for years to get her films shown in the US and make them available to the public. > > Try to find a US distributor for the Bergman film. Just because it doesn't have a license or a US distributor does not mean it is banned. I am also a fan of Japanese animation/manga. Do you know how many series are not released in the US. Is it because there are banned? No it is because for whatever reason US distributors do not think there is a market for these series. It is probably the same with the Ingrid Bergman film. Looking it up on the German Amazon page it doesn't seem like it is some huge hit. And I don't see what Leni's films have anything to do with the Ingrid Bergman film being banned. Did she make that film? And also being blacklisted is not entirely the same as having your works banned. I feel that is a separate issue. And a number of Leni's films are available now. Edited by: Kinokima on Aug 14, 2010 1:49 PM

You are the one who seems to not understand what a ban is. If you ban something that means you make it illegal to consume. There is also a difference between a ban on a national level or on a local level. So when someone bans a book/film from a school district that does not mean the entire nation is affected. However it is still the law of the school district. When something does not appear on TV it is not a ban. It is a decision by the TV station to censor something they have the rights to. It doesn't mean it is not available somewhere else. And what I was saying about the Ingrid Bergman movie is true. It is not banned from the US. Not every movie that is unavailable here is banned. There are many reasons why something is unavailable. Censorship is only one reason. As for placing guilt on people that is hardly a ban.

I think you are confusing banned with not being released they are two different things. Not everything is released here simply because no company has decided to bring it over. Maybe there is not enough interest. It's not like it is illegal to watch that Bergman film. As for the Leni Riefenstahl thing well after the war it might have been different but she is certainly known today. Her film making is highly praised but obviously she also has negative press because of her associations during the war. I read that a lot of her other work was lost and yes she did have trouble getting distributors for her films because of those associations.

Well clearly we seemed to have a misunderstanding, First of all I would like you to read my last post to you again. Notice how I did not say it was you that said TCM was greedy but the original poster of that thread. I did not get upset at you because you want people to see the film. Not at all. I got "upset" because of what you said about the content of the film. I am disagreeing with you that you can get an accurate depiction of what you want to see "Middle Class Germany of 1938". I also did say that yes there might be half truths in there but it is still what the Nazis wanted to portray about the time. Perhaps we could come to a middle ground if you agree that you cannot take it as a complete truth. You wouldn't take everything from a Hollywood film as a complete truth either would you? Of course I am not saying there is nothing you could get out of the film historically either. So please do not take it the wrong way. I see nothing wrong with you wanting to watch the film. I would also like to point out that an issue with the film is it might not be available in the US. Not because it is banned but just because it never got over here. If that is so there might not be an official subbed copy for TCM to air. This has nothing to do with the film being banned. Who knows they might not think there is a market for it. Trust me there is a lot of foreign media not available officially in the US. Your best bet to see the film might be to buy an official copy from Germany. To see it subbed maybe some people have subbed it unofficially online.

> {quote:title=FredCDobbs wrote:}{quote} > > Just a week ago, you jumped all over me because I said I wanted TCM to air Ingrid Bergman?s ?Die vier Gesellen?. You started fussing at me and saying it was just a propaganda film, as if you didn?t want to see TCM air it. Um excuse me no I did not say anything of the kind. I thought it was ridiculous to say TCM was greedy because they do not air it (which the original poster of that topic said) and no I am not going to beg TCM to air it but if they did I would have no problem. I even said previously it would be historically interesting. Of course I am not saying Yay TCM let's air racist films either. The thing I jumped on you about was whether the whole nice atmosphere you see in the film was an accurate depiction. And yes it is a propaganda film. That is a statement about the film's content not a statement on whether I care if the film is aired or not. And also it is not as statement on the quality of the film. You do seem really obsessed with that film though. You mention it in every other post. edit: Here you go I found a German copy of the film for you (probably not subtitled but since you want to see it so badly). You will probably need a region free player though. http://www.amazon.de/Die-vier-Gesellen-Sabine-Peters/dp/B001S6YBNM/ref=sr_1_2?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1281752542&sr=1-2 Edited by: Kinokima on Aug 13, 2010 10:22 PM

Well I think editing/censoring these films are wrong too. I can't stop a private organization from doing it but that doesn't mean I have to support it. I would rather feel uncomfortable and watch those stereotypes then to ignore that they were there at all. Those stereotypes should make you uncomfortable no matter who you are. Instead of censoring material of the past it is much better to focus on making positive portrayals in the future.

Yes there are a lot of horrible racial stereotypes in classic Hollywood films. We would have to ban a whole lot of stuff if we wanted to get rid of it all. No one is saying Yay Racism. It makes most decent people feel uncomfortable watching these stereotypes today as it should. However, I still do not think we should ban or edit any of these films. They are our history. Even negative history is important. And you know what I remembered reading about racism in Hollywood in school. I never truly understood it until I saw it depicted in film. Film is such a great medium for history. True it doesn't necessarily portray an accurate history of the time but I think it does reflect the attitudes of the time quite well. As for the Our Gang series I watched a few episodes here and there but I am not that familiar with it. Now I am curious about these racist episodes. I did read that the black actors in the series defended the show and never felt it was racist.

> {quote:title=ClassicViewer wrote:}{quote} > Sometimes I do have the right. And sometimes you will find that others have that right over you. You have to accept it. > > For instance, you are not allowed to watch certain OUR GANG comedies because someone else has decided that you can't. I am sorry to tell you this but I bet I could watch certain Our Gang episodes, yes even the racist one if I really wanted to. No one is going to arrest me if I go looking for these episodes. It's not a crime is it? What is and is not aired on TV is a separate matter, that is not a ban but up to an individual station/company or whatever. There is no law against Our Gang episodes. I mean I can think of other examples certain Match Game episodes that do not get aired on TV because GSN is afraid they might be offensive but you can find these episodes on youtube. I doubt you are going to find anything as extreme as what you are saying in the US. edit: I did a little searching and the so called Our Gang episodes that get pulled on TV are apparently available on a DVD collection uncut. No you don't have to go through any black market to get them. http://www.ramseyltd.com/rascals/faq/ Edited by: Kinokima on Aug 13, 2010 5:00 PM

Some of those are frightening to read but if you look around I bet you can still find people today saying similar things. And maybe it is a bad comparison but I can see similarities between what is being said about eugenics and banning certain works of art. After all in both cases at first it might sound nice to get rid of "bad stuff" but who is to say what is desirable and what is not. It's very scary.

Yes we definitely agree. I guess I didn't have to write out that long explanation I just wanted to clarify my points. I can't say how the film compares to the play without having seen it myself. I am just talking about the movie on its own merits. "I also enjoy Hepburn in the movie (but I love Audrey!), but Thompson does have a point about how Hepburn acts in this movie. Wendy Hiller did a lot better job in terms of acting the part." Emma Thompson actually clarified her point and indicated she wasn't talking about Audrey just in MFL but in all movies (or at least all movies Emma has seen). Emma doesn't like Audrey as an actress (which is perfectly fine) but she seems to think Audrey's appeal is all about appearance. As a fan of Audrey that I couldn't disagree more with. And I think Wendy Hiller is absolutely wonderful as Eliza. Yes I might even think she is better (especially in the early parts) but I do enjoy both Wendy & Audrey in the part. I am also sure I would have loved Julie too if given the chance to see her.